Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

FIRST FOR CADIA!!!

SECOND FOR DA ORKS

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Are Helbrutes worth taking in a KDK list? I love dreadnoughts and wanna run a big stompy cunt with my boys.

>Dunkeroo says "bell-tan" and not "biel-tan"

What did he mean by this

>>51611162
His pronunciation's pretty fucked in general.

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>115pt Night Lord AC Havoks need a rhino

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>>>51610989

>She is the last hope of the Eldar

What the fucking shit Mon'kiegh bitches whaaaaat?!

Did they forget this guy? REEEEEEEEE

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WHY THE FUCK THEY BUFFED THE ELDAR

I want to replace my Necron Overlord's Res Orb with a severed head.

Which head should be Alas Poor Yorricking?

>>51611305
Dude, why are you even surprised?

>>51611361
Who do you play against regularly?

>>51611361
His own.

Put the res orb where his head used to be.

>>51611378

Ultramarines, Nids, Elysians and Ulthwé.

>>51611403
Rowboat Gillyman's head.

reminder that eldar are literally going to be grand alliance: death in 8th edition

>>51611162
hes english, just be thankful you can understand him and he dosent have that gutterspeak english white trash accent

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>>51611162
>>51611171
This comes with being a britbong.


In related news, people have dialects and accents.

>>51611305

Jesus seriously?
What did they do now? I literally just started collecting thousand sons with the intention of playing them, now you tell me the best faction just got better?

>>51611668
They all get fnp, the characters get wounds back when their units die next time, if one of their units die within 7 inches of anther unit that unit gets to shoot/move for free.

>>51611668
>sell fuckhuge models for lots of money to WAACfags
>make boxed sets like Start Collecting and Armoured Assault for normal players
It kinda checks out.

>>51611702
Gotta admit, as someone coming fresh into the hobby, start collecting and armored assaults are pretty fucking awesome. I just wish my LGS sold ones that weren't Guard or Tau.

>>51611725
I'm really glad my FLGS has an online shop, so you can order stuff or just be sure they have it in stock. And them being about 20% cheaper than GW is also nice.

>>51611701

Is this real?
I don't understand, what do the guys who "balance" the rules hope to achieve with this?

>>51611765
Nice. Mine will do orders from GW for me but it's just getting to the point where if I want anything I have to ask them to order it and they're only slightly cheaper than GW. They only stock Marines and the offshoots, Tau and IG for 40k. They have maybe one or two boxes for other armies, typically things that don't get bought in large amounts like huge Nids. I play CSM/KDK so once I bought the one box of ten standard CSM they sold I had to start ordering.

>>51611305
it's a good buff to dark eldar and harlequins, but idk about craftworld guys since it means less scatterbikes but another shooting phase at the cost of some cheap wyches sounds tasty

>>51611778
you're too hung up on the word and idea of balance anon; this is done to boost the eldar races a bit since they're taking a major hit fluff wise

>>51611828

The fluff should have no bearing on the game, Eldar are already no fun to play against on the tabletop so their answer was to make them stronger?

>>51611778
>>51611701
>>51611668
>>51611305

the eldar always have incredibly powerful rules since they're the good guy army that was literally built from the ground up to job and get slaughtered by other armies

this most recent fluff update shows the largest concentration of eldar in the galaxy (commoragh) exploding due to a chaos invasion, then the new largest concentration of eldar in the galaxy (biel-tan) being blown up by THEIR OWN PEOPLE

thats the equivilent of terra going nuclear, then the imperial fists deciding to move to macragge and blowing it up, taking most of the smurfs with them.

frankly I'd be more than happy if the new book was a direct nerf to the eldar so long as the lore showed us winning, I always prefered fluff over crunch anyway

the fact that I collect dark eldar too doesn't help

>>51611903
>>51611850
>>51611828
>>51611305
In reality it's just another nerf. My local group has been boycotting eldar since the beginning of 7th edition. The only eldar player remaining in the entire state of florida is some tourneyfaggot who brings multiples of those forgeworld wraithknights to every game, and is completely delusional about his own race. Like this dude is so fucking delusional, he rightly belongs in a mental hospital.

> Dat feel when you boycott eldar so hard that one faggot even gets rid of his entire 15,000 point collection.

All you have to do is tell your opponent:
> "No thanks, I don't want to play against Eldar"
And you win.

>>51611903

So you think because the eldar are getting wrecked in the fluff they should be able to easily win 9/10 games on the tabletop?
Naw that shit aint gonna sail, that's bullshit.
The two things should have no bearing on each other what so ever.

>>51611821
Well, my LGS is about an hour away from my place, so I usually order anyway. Just driving to it and hope something I want is there is always a bit risky. Don't wanna drive over a hundred kilometers just to find nothing. But the stock in the store isn't that great anyway, loads of CSM, SM and IG, with a bit of Eldar inbetween. And I'm a Necron player.

>>51611162
I thought that was how you were meant to pronounce it, since the name comes from the Beltane festival

Are you telling me I shouldn't pronounce Saim-Hann as "sow-in" either?

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>>51611966
>And you win
No, then you dont play at all.

I play fucking orks and I never turn down a game bases solely on what my opponent is playing, thats shitty. Ill play against eldar and have fun giving the smelly elves a bloody nose

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>>51611991

never said I agreed with it, in fact i hate it.

unfortunately the fact remains that the eldar's strength in the crunch has only ever been matched by their tendency to job in the fluff, I hate this fact and wish that they would cut the bullshit, but its still true.

>>51611966

I bet you play grav-spam marines too faggot.

more seriously, do you ban eldar as a race or just the craftworlders, cos I've got a substantial Deldar/harlequin collection too.

would you turn down a game with 3 raiders, 2 ravagers and a shitload of reavers?

>>51611850
according to gw, why not? if anything it's about time for their mandatory update/supplement since their only supplement for craftworlds is a 6th oop book

>>51611966
you don't like waacs, fine. but what about the casual players and those not looking to cheese the game? i do eldar but i'm more likely to use guardians then a wraithknight.

>>51612118
>This
My imperial guard regiment will never turn down the chance to fight and die for the Emperor.

>>51611668
Play 30k if you want usable thousand son rules.

>>51612222
IS there a compilation of their leaked rules yet? I saw the individual pics but didn't save them

>>51612160
Just craftworlders. I play Herohammer marines bro. My every-day casual list is like 30 rough riders supported by 3 tactical squads, 4 scout squads, and a pair of librarians walking around with a beatstick captain in some honour guard. I'll also take like 4 dreadnoughts. Because dreadnoughts are cool as shit. Most of my tactical squads are also walking around with a heavily pimped-out veteran squad.

>>51612186
The problem with this is that the only eldar player remaining in my area is THE MOST UNFORGIVING WAACFAGGOT in all of existence, and whose "Casual" list consists of 6 squads of D-guard in wave serpents supported by wraithknights. In the 5 years I've played this game, I have never once seen him run anything less than that kind of list.

>>51612309
Magnus is just a teensy bit OP, but here's the whole thing.

http://imgur.com/a/NkoTp

With the new Biel-Tan stuff coming in, does that mean more Macha fapfics?

>>51611701
they dont all get FNP. the "the eldar player's units get fnp(6+)" rule is a mission special rule

>>51611778
all the named characters have a chance (4+ for infantry, 3+ for avatar) to regain a wound when a nearby friendly model dies
if a unit dies within 7" of one or more units, one of those units can move/shoot/run/charge as if it was their appropriate phase

>>51611966
Same thing here anon. we hardly have any Tau or Eldar players at our store now. Now we just need to get rid of the Necron players.

>>51611049
lets say i got a mek in a unit of flash gitz.

the mek wants to repair a killa kan. can the flash gitz still fire at something else?

>>51612309
https://imgur.com/a/dbR41

so there is a focus on regaining health on the 3 new characters, soulburst is the major thing

>>51612314
30 rough riders? you're a mad man. with that many they have to make it to combat at least once but they still fight like guardsmen

>>51612407

>implying necrons are on the same tier as Tau or Eldar

>>51612325
>>51612412
Thank you
I never saw their RoW
I like guard of the crimson king

>>51612412
Lol, they get hilarious when used in a Castellans, which is now the new patrician way to play casual 40k. I once had a 10-man squad with a Khan gib a tyranid Tervigon on the charge, while another squad chased his melee flyrant all over the board to prevent it from landing.

While Rough Riders are definitely mediocre; even in a Castellans, they are easily the most fun unit I have ever tried using.

>>51611966
Refusing to play WAAC is fine but you can't just boycott an entire faction, that's gay as fuck.

Filthy beggar faggot here. Any chance that someone has the Raven Guard codex? That is literally the only thing i want that isn't in the trove

>>51612344
>more
There's already some that exist?

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>>51612455
you do bretonnia and king arthur proud anon

>>51612486
get the angels of death supplement, all their rules are in there

>>51612479
No, you don't understand the true meaning of waac here with the Eldar. It is straight up impossible for Eldar to not be a WAACFAG, as every last fucking one of their units is lightyears ahead of everyone else's. Even their most mediocre of units like storm guardians are still orders of magnitude better than most other faction's melee specialists.

I only ever put casual fun lists on the board. But my idea of casual fun isn't to just bend over and take it in the ass just because I wanted to have a good old fashioned mosh pit in the center of the board with multiple hero-dudes challenging each other to awesome duels.

does anyone here have the link to the new eldar formations from gathering storm 2?

>>51611903
Commoragh hasn't exploded, it is at war.

Biel-Tan hasn't exploded or ceased to exist, it has turned into a megafleet of huge pre-Fall ships because its Infinity Circuit fell apart BIRTHING THE ELDAR WIN BUTTON GOD.

Stop being such a baby.

A direct nerf would be welcome. Then I'd have to deal with less asshurt babbies like
>>51611966
who are stupid enough to think they'll ever get a truly balanced game out of GW and refuse to play when they feel like they're in danger of losing.

>>51612497
I see. TY.

Are there special rules for Catachan plants that one could use on their board?

>>51612542
No fun playing when you can't kill a single enemy unit.

>>51612527

God, you are so fucking bitchmade. If your list doesn't flop their dicks out and slap fucking GUARDIANS around, you're an objectively shitty player and should just pack your shit up and leave.

>>51612527
one of my best friends plays eldar and frequently tables me. When I beat him it's only ever barely, but I do win. I think you might just need to improve your strategy beyond charge mid and smash each other. As much as I can appreciate that kind of battle, it won't do against space elves.

>>51612542
Bro, there's a difference between "Not wanting to lose" and "Not wanting to play a game where I have a 100% chance of losing". Playing eldar is like a whole game of ROCKET TAG. They just automatically destroy every unit they point at with no real chance for me to fight back.

>>51612588
I have no intention of playing any sort of rocket tag games. I only want to play casual games over beer and pretzels with friends. Is it completely impossible to understand that maybe some people just don't like playing competitively?

>>51612563
in codex catachans, yes

I believe there was also a set of them in index astartes in one of their articles.

>>51612613
So applying even the slightest bit of strategy is now playing competitively? You just want to mindlessly throw units into the fray and roll dice? I'm surprised it's just eldar you hate if that's your play style

>>51612455
How does Castellans make Rough Riders much better? Just because of Hatred or what?

>>51612645
>So applying even the slightest bit of strategy
You mean the thing that Eldar don't need to do because they get free firepower shoved up so far up their ass their ScatLasers protrude from their ears?

>>51612160
>I bet you play grav-spam marines too faggot.
>eldar RWBYfag calling anyone else a faggot

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>>51611162
>The narrator in the Visarch video says "bail-tan".

>>51612536
the only formations we have is the WD image. The rules glossary leak is on natfka, dakkdakka, bolter and chainsword, and some archived /40kg/ threads

>>51612645
> Implying rocket tag is "Strategy"
Nigga, get those dicks out of your mouth. Eldar don't need strategy so much as "everything I point at automatically dies because Strength D outside of apocalypse games, RENDING EVERYTHING, and Scatlasers". There is still strategy in casual games, like my timings as to who I get into the mosh pits, where, and when.

>>51612665

A jetbike is literally less durable than a single tactical marine. By claiming they're gamebreaking, you're saying you can't kill a tactical marine.

>>51612651
They already have s5ap3 and grenades. I imagine hatred goes a long way to making rough riders decent

>>51612651
I imagine it's the respawn chance, letting them act like the suicide charge unit they're destined to be and getting their hunting spears back.

>>51612665
If eldar just point and shoot they will get rekt like anyone else. I could on and in about how retarded battle focus and bladestorm is but they have it so just get over it. Learn how to bait them out and punish them every time they show their coward faces in open field. Victory washes away all dishonour

>>51612698
>A jetbike is literally less durable than a single tactical marine
>t4 3+
no its not?

>>51612711
Since when are Rough Riders troops?

>>51612711
only troops respawn in a castellens detachment

>>51612723
Oh bollocks, I forgot about that. I was just recalling off the top of my head.

>>51612692
Yes because eldar are all just S:D scat lasers. how bout you dont play against faggots who arent there to have fun and find a player who wants a fun game?

>>51612721
they can also jink, so technically they're more durable

>>51612692
You know, when I get rekt by something enough times it pisses me off. Instead of giving up I learn what I did wrong and do something else. I've learned how to beat eldar now, and it's not easy but it's entirely possible. You two scrubs are a disgrace to the imperium

>>51612567
Get good. Eldar players aren't impossible to beat.

>>51612613
>Bro, there's a difference between "Not wanting to lose" and "Not wanting to play a game where I have a 100% chance of losing". Playing eldar is like a whole game of ROCKET TAG. They just automatically destroy every unit they point at with no real chance for me to fight back.

You suck. You are legitimately shit at the game if you can't even harm your opponent, no matter their build.

Also, I bet you don't refrain from playing against weaker codices, like Orks or Nids, which you have just as much if not MORE of an advantage of against than Eldar do against your Guard or Necrons or whatever you play.

>>51612651
They have S5 AP3 I5 on the charge, with 22 attacks per squad. Instead of only hitting 11 times, you hit an average of 19 times thanks to hatred. It goes a long way to making them considerably more powerful.

>>51612746
Where did you miss the whole "The only eldar player remaining in the entire state of florida" is straight up fucking incapable of playing anything other than Ultra-hyper competitive-competing for champion of the universe kinds of play?

>>51612748
Fucking nigger, the only eldar player within 1000 miles of me is the top tournament faggot in the entire state of fucking florida. He never runs casual lists, and always tries to defend himself by claiming that his lists are "perfectly acceptable for just playing for fun".

>>51612793

>There is literally one Eldar player in the state of Florida

At first I thought you were exaggerating for effect, but now you genuinely believe this: Shut the fuck up that's so fucking obviously wrong.

>>51612793
>Where did you miss the whole "The only eldar player remaining in the entire state of florida" is straight up fucking incapable of playing anything other than Ultra-hyper competitive-competing for champion of the universe kinds of play?
Thats your own damn fault. You drove out any new blood who could of been adjusted to the meta. You caused the only person who wants to play them to be the fuck who doesnt care about how cheesy he seems

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>>51611966
>>51612314
>> "No thanks, I don't want to play against Eldar"
>And you win.
No, then you're a faggot.
It's one thing to boycott tourneyfags, but its an entirely different thing to boycott an entire race.
The fact that your actions made someone get rid of a 15,000 point collection should not be a point of pride, but of shame.
You are a massive faggot and you bring shame to marine players everywhere. There is more honor in gravspam gladius with WS bikes and gravhammer than your actions.
To boycott WAACfags can be good, to refuse to play someone just because they play a certian army is horrible. You bring shame to your chaoter and your primarch.
A true Astartes player would rejoice at the chance to crush foul xenos, no matter the odds, not run from battle because "boo hoo GW can't balance codexes."

Esspecially since are codex isn't exactly much better than the eldar in that regard

>>51612815
*our

>>51612793
>Where did you miss the whole "The only eldar player remaining in the entire state of florida" is straight up fucking incapable of playing anything other than Ultra-hyper competitive-competing for champion of the universe kinds of play?
>Fucking nigger, the only eldar player within 1000 miles of me is the top tournament faggot in the entire state of fucking florida.

By your own earlier admission, this is because you've effectively banned all other Eldar players, you colossal faggot. You don't get to ostracise people and then whine that there's only one left and he's a shithead to you, you absolute piece of shit sore loser assburger.

Get thicker skin or get better at the game.

I have to say Anti-Eldar anon does make some actually good bait

>>51611903
>the eldar always have incredibly powerful rules since they're the good guy army that was literally built from the ground up to job and get slaughtered by other armies
Imp. Guard are a good-guy faction that gets shat on in the background and they have fairly shit rules. Orks are a bad-guy faction that always lose in the background and have really shit rules. Necrons are ultra-powerful in the background and generally have pretty awesome rules when they actually get a codex until it becomes outdated. Space marines are good guys who always win in the background and are generally pretty good in game. To be honest mate, I'm not seeing a coherent pattern here. Looks like power level has fuck-all to do with the background.

>>51612410
Yes.

>>51612852
>>51612815
>>51612807
> Getting buttmad about an entire meta straight up banning craftworld eldar.
Eldarfags detected. Just leave your army at home or pick up something more acceptable.

>>51612793
>Fucking nigger, the only eldar player within 1000 miles of me

No, they're probably just playing in small, private groups and clubs, because you chased them away with your hysterical autism.

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>>51612815
Nah he probably doesnt play IoM hes probably this anon actually

>>51612873
>>51611903
Daemons pretty much always win in the fluff and always have good-to-fantastic rules. CSM usually lose in the fluff, and they've had the whole gamut of shit-to-fantastic rules. Thousand Sons have spent the entirety of their existence losing to the same faction, and they've always had shit rules in 40k.

would people be alright fighting against a tau army if there were no riptides but several squads of specialised crisis suits, some fire warriors, *maybe* pathfinders, and then a tank or two, would that make people less pissy compared to bringing a riptide wing into a 1000pt game.

there wouldnt be a lot of models but each suit would be expensive and would have questionable effectiveness against horde armies, also would be extremely dependant on good reserve rolls and deep strikes.

>>51612947
>squads of specialised crisis suits, some fire warriors, *maybe* pathfinders, and then a tank or two
sure

It's riptides, stormsurges and several rather busted formations that put people on tilt.

>>51612947
riptides, stormsurges and retarded formations are what makes tau annoying to play against.

crisis suits are fine.

>>51612874
t. buttmad autist that can't win games

I've played whatever armies I like the fluff for, through the good and the bad metas, since 2e. You and people like you are weak.

>>51612859
Sadly it's not bait. I once shared his exact opinions, I think we all have at one point. That's eldar do to you, they break you mentally, and you either get rebuilt stronger than you were, or become a sniveling mess like him

>>51612947

>several squads of specialised crisis suits, some fire warriors, *maybe* pathfinders, and then a tank or two


Sounds fine, senpai. I'd happily play against it.

>>51612874
Try SM since 4th edition.
You're just a massive faggot.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueulBxn1Fw
How do I make this work?

I feel like the list itself could be able to win against "normal", non-WAAC lists but I am god awful at properly deploying Drop Pods to be close enough to more or less reliably charge but not so close that I'll be gunned down from all directions.

Was alternatively to the Priest thinking of bringing an Inquisitor (since I don't have an actual Priest and feel like using Greyfax for that might be a stretch, though my Grimaldus' banner Servitor might be able to count-as one) or by switching around some of the transport options, maybe letting my melee squads walk and putting the normal Tactical squad inside the Pod or Rhino.

Keep in mind that I have like 2 or 3 Marine lists in my meta with the rest mostly being bottom-tier stuff like Orks, Nids and Grey Knights, so our power level is wonky as all hell.

>>51612490
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Macha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8feGSR7TA48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXfpziQI9Q4

You gits see these yet?

>phil kelly's doing the warhammerTV descriptions of the eldar trinity
neat

I hope to god they get Matt to do the Primarch's triumvirate.

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>>51613014
pulled this idea off of 1d4chan, expensive as fuck but it has 2 melta shots, 8 s6ap2 plasma shots, 16 BS5 S5 AP5 shots, all twin linked and has ignores cover, all of which can be targeted at different units except for the drones i think, not sure how the relationship between the drone and its owners target lock works but i assume the suit is the only one with it.

>>51613094
Holy shit my sides

>>51613258
>Spiritual Liege
>Grey Knight Master
yep definitely Matt will do them

So how much would change if they made all Destroyer hits STR 10, AP1 and made them all Instant Death and +3-4 on the Vehicle Damage Chart?

>>51613428
Trying to balance around D weapons is a fool's errand.

>>51613428
They get better against everything other than superheavies

>>51613254
This woman's voice is really grinding my gears for some reason.

>>51613428
Problem with Ds is that they are hilariously bad against anything other than vehicles. Mostly because their entire point is nuking armor 15 titans into dust.

Just make it do D6 wounds no save allows, with 6 giving additional 6 wounds.

>>51613259
>What is interceptor
Also only faggots use buff commanders

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>>51612667

I have embraced the faggotry

In doing so I have achieved a power the likes of which you cannot imagine

>>51612947
It really depends on who you are up against.

Some people will cry cheese at anything and against some armies even a low-tier tau build is pretty brutal.

>...also would be extremely dependant on good reserve rolls and deep strikes.

High-risk armies seldom seem balanced from the other side of the table. If you fail, they assume you are an idiot with bad strategy, if you succeed they will claim that your list is cheesy.

The only really sure way to have 40k players accept that your army is fair is to play basically the same one they do.

So is there even a point in AP 1 against non-vehicle models with 2+ being the best possible save?

>>51613620
correct

>>51613533
>the problem with the D is that it isn't good enough
Get this hothead outta here!

>>51613428
Completely remove the D, remove Instant Death, add Devastating (X). Attacks with Devastating remove X wounds/hull points instead of 1 on an unsaved wound/penetration. Force and S=>2T grant Devastating (D3) against non-vehicles. Completely redesign all existing weapons with these rules in mind.

While we're in magical Christmas land, we'll also make the jump over to D10's, replace AP with save modifiers (some AP5 goes to no mod, the more elite shit goes to -1), and put Super Heavies and Gargantuan Creatures back into Apocalypse.

>>51612786
>Get good. Eldar players aren't impossible to beat.

t. Friendless Ayylmarifag

>>51613677
Hire this man.

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Do I have to mass renegade platoons or can I have them as separate units? Would I not have to buy vox/etc for each unit?

Using the Unending Host supplement for Renegades allows units 15+ in number that die to outflank on a 2+ with an extra D6 for movement. Would it be best to take PCS and infantry squads 15 strong each with 3 plasma/melta with vox/sigil for leadership rerolls or massed infantry squads of 30 to save points on having to purchasing a ton of vox/sigils? I plan on bubble wrapping a renegade baneblade which provides Fanatic and Zealot within 12". As a bonus any models being targeted through my infantry squads get a 3+ cover save.

>>51613677
>we'll also make the jump over to D10's
fuck no

D6 is fine as a baseline. Especially in a "throw many little dice on the table" game like 40k. Just do what 2e did and use bigger dice with certain weapons, instead of awkwardly stapling "lance" or "armourbane" or whatever onto them.

>>51613563

dude can use whatever he wants, buffmanders are hardly broken since a psyker can do buffs far better

>>51613254
>The Visarch was Yvraine's teacher in the Aspect Temples
>then her employee in the Dark City, possibly as an Incubi
>then her bodyguard as appointed by a dormant god

The pussy game must be incredible.

Why are some nid players so damn obnoxious?

>>51613779
Fuck yes. D10's are small enough to throw handfuls of them at a time and read them quickly, but they offer significantly more results than a D6.

>>51613868
because the only people that play nids are sperglords and girls

>>51611162
Anglos don't understand the difference between "ie" and "ei". It's always been that way and will never change.
Now I have to go back to my bunker and plan my next BlitzKREIG with Anthony WEINER.

>>51613888
>D10's are small enough to throw handfuls of them at a time
not in anywhere near the capacity of D6's

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>>51611049
Sternguard + Librarian emerge from their tunneling drill (drop pod) to try and give my fire warriors and pathfinders a bad time.

>>51613988
Maybe we should have less shit that involves rolling dozens and dozens of dice at a time.

>>51613888
Fuck you khorne i'm not letting you decide to make my collection of d6s fucking useless.

>>51614036
Maybe we should punch you in the stomach until you stop having such wrong opinions.

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>>51614024
Terminators rush out from their immobilized Land Raider to take an objective (the wounded/dead marine models)

>>51614044
Dice are cheap. It's a change that would greatly increase the ability of the game to differentiate between units.

>>51613949
>plays 40k
>unwilling to spend 25 deportation dollars on dice

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>>51614068
The Fireblade and his unit make a break for the objective as the Librarian and Sternguard Sergeant stand in front of their wrecked drill and prepare to charge.

>>51614064
If all you want to do is roll dice, go play Yahtzee or something.

Having to roll 150 dice just to see how many hit is tedious as fuck. Rolling lots of dice does nothing that rolling fewer dice with different success thresholds couldn't adequately model.

>>51614114
Dnd fags get out, we don't need your retarded dice shitting up the game

>>51614064
Dunno dude, other anon does have a point. There are a lot of things we roll for that shouldn't really be rolled for.

Rolling dice for difficult terrain? Just make it "Half movement unless you have Move through Cover" or so.

Rolling dice for pre-game powers? Fuck that noise, write your powers/warlord traits/etc at army creation, rather than writing a system where you can roll for 73 pre-game abilities at 1500 points (an extreme example, but still).

Of course, if "choose your powers" is a thing in 40k, nerfing "deathstar" combos matters too, as well as "all or nothing" die rolls. Ex: Make D "D3 Wounds/HP w/ a minus 2 mod to Invuls, rather than having Deathblow, or not letting Blessings/Powers modify an Invulnerable Save to a 2++, etc.

Oh, and redoing Maelstrom altogether. Random objectives are one thing (hence the common houserule of "draw an objective if your objective is impossible", like being tasked to slay a Necron Psyker), but random VP for objectives is another thing too. ("Slay 3 Rhinos, roll 3 VP." "Slay 3 Razorbacks, roll 1 VP", etc).

In short, cut out die rolls that aren't actually part of the game or aren't directly part of the player decisions, or ultimately slow shit down, and reduce the amount of "all or nothing" in the game.

>>51614201
>Rolling lots of dice does nothing that rolling fewer dice with different success thresholds couldn't adequately model.
Except for, you know, shooting many guns.

What's interesting is it used to be even more layered, with certain basic infantry weapons able to add +D3 shots to their weapon, which could end up causing D6/D8/D10 damage.

Making everything D10s doesn't really add anything to the game, nor does it change it in any significant way beyond making people buy ~15-20 new dice.

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Would a daemon prince with wings and minimum cultist be better than a Word Bearers sorcerer on palanquin taking perils from the Kasyr rhino when it comes to summoning?
Before anyone says it, I've been working on this for a while now. I didn't copy paste it.

1850 Splinters of Chaos: Luckless Host
The Purge Detachment (Vraks Renegades and Heretics) [Primary Detachment]
HQ
Renegade Command Squad: 1x Arch Demagogue (Ordnance Tyrant, Devotion of Nurgle), 2x Disciples (lasguns), 1x Disciple Autocannon Team

Elites
Renegade Strike Battery: 2x Renegade Wyverns, 2 heavy flamers
Renegade Strike Battery: 2x Renegade Wyverns, 2 heavy flamers

Troops
20x Plague Zombie Mob
20x Plague Zombie Mob

Heavy Support
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery: 3x Rapiers, 6x crew, weapons training
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery: 3x Rapiers, 6x crew, weapons training
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery: 3x Rapiers, 6x crew, weapons training
Renegade Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery: 3x Rapiers, 6x crew, weapons training

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line, quad gun

Combined Arms Detachment (Chaos Daemons; Heralds of Anarchic)
HQ
Herald of Tzeentch, Paradox Psyker, ML3
Herald of Tzeentch, Endless Grimoire Psyker, ML1
7x Herald of Tzeentch, ML1

Allied Detachment (Chaos Space Marines; Word Bearers)
HQ
Sorcerer on palanquin, master level 3, spell familiar, bolt pistol, force sword

Troops
5x Chaos Space Marines
Rhino, Death of Kasyr Lutein

Heavy Support
Fire Raptor, 2 reaper autocannon batteries, 4 balefire missiles

>>51614269
>There are a lot of things we roll for that shouldn't really be rolled for.
That's not his point, though. His point is that D10s would somehow fix that.

which is ridiculous

>>51614207
>hey d20fags, get your d10 outa here!
the irony is that, for once, hate should not be placed on dnd but on white wolf and BRP.

>>51614201
How does switching to a d10 system lessen the amount of dice we roll? You still have to roll to hit for each member of a squad all d10s do is make it a more complex system.

>>51614270
>Except for, you know, shooting many guns.
Just have excessive successes on the to-hit roll generate more hits for multi-shot weapons. Even someone with fairly small hands can roll 10-15 D10's with ease, and units in 40k really shouldn't have more than 20-30 models.

>with certain basic infantry weapons able to add +D3 shots to their weapon, which could end up causing D6/D8/D10 damage.
That's a far more complex system and requires multiple kinds of die.

>Making everything D10s doesn't really add anything to the game
Other than a 67% increase in possible die outcomes. That adds a lot of variance that can be reflected in statlines and point costs, and adds a lot more room for +/- modifiers.

>>51614201
>Having to roll 150 dice just to see how many hit is tedious as fuck.

Speak for yourself. Nothing gives me more satisfaction in 40 than rolling giant fistfuls of dice when making attacks. I love scooping up 60+ dice and watching the opponent sweat.

>>51614345
I personally love the sound of the dice hitting the table. Its so satisfying hearing 30 dice land

>>51614295
I'd probably stick with the Palanquin Sorc. Grimoire is more of a crapshoot without Fateweaver after all.

What are your plans with the Heralds anyway other than being WC Batteries? I'd probably shuffle it around into a proper CAD instead of the formation, simply so you could get some Screamers and stuff in. Is your plan to use the ADL and reserve them in for objective grabs or so?

Also, are you using ITC rules for the Kasr Lutien Rhino? If so, you'd only get 3 dice to re-roll for manifesting powers; it's fairly fragile, and you could probably do better with a heavier vehicle. Since you're going full-on FW with the R&H, I imagine a Deimos Vindicator could corner-camp and provide WC.

Another thought, if you have Terminators lying around, could be to run your Palanquin Sorcerer as a Black Legion one, so you can attach him to some Zombies for free Hatred, and so he can take Last Memory of the Yuranthos (seriously, that relic is a giant fuck you to Genestealers).

Food for thought either way.

>>51614340
>10-15 D10s
>20-30 models
>chance of some guys just deciding not to shoot because "d10 are so much better"

I'd rather roll with 20-30 d6 and actually have all my guys shoot individually, rather than some arbitrary number of them, possibly only half the squad or some random amount.

Random thought on the Canoptek Harvest.

Suppose the formation was updated/modified in a way that the Scarabs/Wraiths/Spyder collectively formed a single unit. Would it be better (harder to remove the Spyder), or worse (can't attach ICs to the unit, preventing its use as an Orikanstar, one unit is easier to target, etc)? Thoughts?

Why is Guilliman about 3 times the height of a terminator? I didn't think the Primarchs were that massive, just about two-three heads taller than a normal marine. Hell, every art featuring a primarch depicts them this way.

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>>51611966
The butthurt emanating from this mon'keigh is glorious.

>>51614451
Are you retarded? You'd roll the 10-15 and then roll them again after counting successes. Exactly the same way people roll for shit like full size Orks mobs or Imperial Guard blob squads and shit now.

>>51614492
so you want to change nothing but the type of dice you're rolling, for no benefit whatsoever?

>>51614518
It seems he wants to change the way AP and saves work with it

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So my friend sold his guard army he had for 8 years, and put together a nurgle army. And by army, I mean like 3 great unclean ones, couple of soulgrinders, and 3 or 4 demon princes. Everything that is not flying with a 2+ jink, is on the ground with str 10 toughness 10, rerollable feel no pain or invun I forget which, that regenerates wounds for kills. I play orks. Even when i hit one of these fuckers with 2 warbosses and 2 nobs with klaws all around, he won the fight easily. He is getting a big head and shitting on every tournament we run. Last month only 6 people showed, the previous one there was 15, and nothing but grumbling about him.

I have tried everything at my disposal as orks. Its a losing battle. Closest I came to winning was an all dread/kan/gorkanaut army ironically enough. Wtf do orks have that can stand up to this shit. I even tried just drowning him in msu, there is just a shitton of aoe in his list. Everything either has aoe psychic powers or flamers out the ass.

>>51614518
What exactly is your plan here? Are you going to keep asking the same questions over and over in the hopes that I'll go away? Reread this post >>51614340 and pretend that I reposted it.

>>51614542
Try krumpin' em ya git

>>51614452

Worse, because the Wraiths would be slowed to the same speed as the Spyder.

>>51614536
Ideally, I think I'd completely cut armor saves out entirely. Armor would just impact how hard it is to injure someone, with armor penetration ignoring some amount of armor. Reduce the basic "try to kill a model" process down to "roll to hit, roll to wound, remove casualties."

>>51614542
Tell him to cut the crap. Nobody will play against him if he acts like an idiot.

>>51612118
Dont lie. You are incapable of even slightly slowing down their gameplan. Show me even a list tailored ork list specifically designed to push eldars shit in, and I will show you an eldar take all comers list that would yawn at you.

What's all this ynnari stuff?

>>51614610
new eldar faction

>>51611162

When you have two vowels next to each other you would normally pronounce the first one long but that is not always the case. Since it is a made up name it can pronounced however they wish.

>>51614610

new eldar faction

ynneads waking up and they wanna seem like his worshippers so when the reincarnation thing gets reinstated they're first in line

>>51614648
If they wanted to worship him properly they'd fucking kill themselves.

>>51614670
I mean some of them do i believe

>>51614648
>>51614624
Are dark eldar allowed?

>>51614581
Models move at their own speed within a unit; unit coherency is the only thing that matters, and with enough Scarabs to place "in between", mobility isn't the issue as much. Though they lose Fleet (due to the Spyder not having Beast mobility, though that could probably be added back into the formation just for completion's sake), the Beasts could actually slingshot said Spyder into melee.

What is more interesting is that the unit would become more vulnerable to shooting due to majority toughness (which usually is 3 based on the number of Scarabs, unless you pump a lot of points into Wraiths). On the other hand, they become a LOT more resistant to Grav.

I would say "worse", but not so much worse as to be unplayable; the main thing is that it prevents the Wraiths from being a deathstar vector.

>>51614542
For starters, either you're grossly exaggerating or he's cheating when it comes to random power/gift generation at the beginning of the game. Those GUO aren't going to have have Iron Arm and Dark Blessing and Soul Eater every game. That list is also a shit-ton of point. Fully equipped Princes and GUO are going to be in the ~300 point range each.

Secondly, have you tried talking to him like an adult? This isn't the kind of problem that can be solved without communication.

Thirdly, have you tried Wazdakka biker mob spam? Durable enough to survive a bit of Witchfire punishmet, fast enough to grab objectives. Try backing it up with a Buzzgob stompa.

>>51614648

I'm not that guy but is Biel-tan dead or something? GW website says we 'lost a craftworld'.

>>51614391
>plans with the Heralds
Really all they need to do is shit out a bloodthirster. Any more than that is pretty much icing. The formation grants +1 free WC per herald so I figure there's no better way to mass them than at 22.5 points per WC
>ITC
I'd have to. I don't plan on taking this to friendly games, only for competitive environments.
The rhino isn't a very good choice for Kasyr, I understand. I find myself struggling to move points but the rhino comes cheap with my compulsory CSM troop. Otherwise I'd have to take a CAD for the CSM to get a second heavy choice.
>>51614391
>black legion
Is it not better to take the sorc as Word Bearer legion to get the most benefits with what it's doing, harnessing WC on 3+ through Malefic?

Thanks for your suggestions. It's not often I get replies, sometimes I think it's because people hate the list but honestly it's probably because there are so many special rules that there's no way of knowing exactly what I'm doing without making a blog post to be TL;DR'd

>>51614676
i think, yes it's meaned to be a fusion of the three main faction while being a new one

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>>51614676

dark eldar are allowed yes

but real deldar don't need a god to do their reincarnation

>>51614693
the craftworld has fractured, in the literal sense of the word

it breaks apart into many individual ships

>>51614542
Don't play him.
Alternatively, take advantage of the great deal on the Tzeentch start collecting and build a "fuck you nurgle" list designed to fuck him up utterly.
Use it to crush him with no remorse, and tell him to stop his shit or you'll fuck him up again.

>>51614676
i think, yes it's meaned to be a fusion of the three main faction while being a new one
>>51614693
Yvraine sacrificed the Biel-Tan infinity circuit to birth the Yncarne
so now it's more like a fleet than a craftworld

>>51614693

biel-tan revealed itself to be a megazord and separated into hundreds of smaller ships

some joined the ynnari and some decided they wanted to be a fleet based craftworld

I don't imagine many went with the ynnari because they were the ones who blew it up

>>51614712

What the fuck... that sounds a bit autistic. So are they each Biel-tan or is there a large piece that's taking on the mantle?

God, these days with GW each release I feel like my hand is hovering over the eject button ready for the squatting that makes me quit.

>>51614676
Yes, they specifically said that it includes DE, Craftworld and Clowns. Think there's even formations combining their units, but they lose their faction rules but gain a new "Soulburst" rule that lets them do stuff like move or shoot again if another unit, friend or foe, dies near them.

>>51614542

>Closest I came to winning was an all dread/kan/gorkanaut army ironically enough.

Well, at least Walkers don't swing at Initiative 1 outside of the Stompa.

Speaking of which, have you tried using a Stompa?

>>51614742
>that sounds a bit autistic
Please explain what you mean by this.

>>51614742
>that sounds a bit autistic
what do you even mean by that, mate

>So are they each Biel-tan or is there a large piece that's taking on the mantle?
iunno, but I'd imagine they'd just act as a flotilla instead of going "this ship is battleship biel-tan and the rest don't get names".

>>51614583
Fantasy is never coming back. Just get used to 40k and learn to love it

>>51614542
Do it the orky way and just field a few extra hundo points like a real sneaky git. It's not like anyone outside of ork players even knows their point costs. I'd probably not even doubt an ork player bringing 9 Gorkanauts to a 1850 match if I hadn't just looked up their codex entry and I know for a fact that I'm not alone with that little knowledge about them.

>>51614805
Fantasy had armor saves.

>>51614742
Don't worry, Macha is fine.

>>51614583
i get why you would want to cut out an entire part to try and make it easier but then you complicate the other two parts and i dont think thats fixing anything.

>>51614742
Its just a fleet based craftworld. Instead of "craftworld Biel-tan" its "eldar fleet Biel-tan"

>>51614824
>muh high str reduces armor saves
The superior game survived the axe. Fantasy fags btfo

>>51614700
The summoning bonus is nice, but the Marines become even more of a tax since the Word Bearers don't get a "models with Veterans of the Long War" bonus like the other Legions. Most their strengths lie in their Warlord Table (which you're not using since you're running an Ordnance Tyrant), and the Grand Host (since Crusader gives them *something*). Really though, you will Perils no matter what, so the "Summon on 3+" really just means you're saving a die or two when he gets to summon; if you're using your Sorcerer for any other abilities (which you should, as you get more flexible discipline selection anyway), then you don't care whether you're a Word Bearer or anything else.

Main reason I'd suggest Black Legion is so you could use an Obsec Termicide troop as your tax. Alternately, you could be goofy and do CSM as a Purge Detachment, and either run Chosen or solo Mutilators as your mandatory "Elite Tax".

If you're using ITC rules, I'd probably drop Death of Kasr Lutien (as you won't get much use from it due to the "3 dice per phase" ruling), and probably aim for Perdus Rift Anomaly instead, simply for insurance against the odd alpha-strike army.

Another thing to consider, if you want to drop a few Heralds, is giving some Discs and maybe Exalted Locus of Conjuration. Having a few S6 ersatz Landspeeders that can move, cast, then turbo an objective can help you win scenario play too, plus anything that lets you more rapidly demech Battle Company will help you out in the long run due to your general lack of Obsec; last thing you want is to be tank-shocked from the table sides or so.

Good luck!

>>51614777
>>51614783

I mean if a ship breaks into multiple parts it's fucked.

How can each part have it's own engine, bridge, life support etc. I know it's Eldar so they can have some kind of unfathomable ship design but it still sounds retarded.

You couldn't sail the engine block of the Titanic back to Belfast could you.

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Starting an Iron Warriors army since I don't own any chaos as of yet and I love these guys. Would sinking in 25% of the points into an Evil Fortress be a good idea or should it be more/less?

>>51611191
can this replace the melee race meme?

>>51614874
>if a ship breaks into multiple parts it's fucked
craftworlds aren't really ships

>>51614907
no

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>>51614542

You are going to buy 8 bloodthirsters of insensate rage and bury your friend in 8 S:D attacks at weapon skill 10 per bloodthirster.

best part is that 8 is khorne's holy number so its even fluffy

>>51614874
Apparently (and I say apparently because its a retcon) craftworlds are just super-ships composed of multiple smaller ships.

>>51614874
Turns out it wasn't one huge ship, but multiple big ones.

>>51614879
you mean an actual fortress of redemption? mite b cool, but beware those are banned from a lot of tourneys etc. and are generally considered a novelty piece more than a part of a normal list

>just had to solve 10+ captchas for the second time in a row

motherfucker this is just getting straight up ridiculous

>>51614925
why not? is it because the unit is actually spelled "havoc" and not "havok"?

>>51614851
It's not really about making it less complex, it's about making it quicker. Two dice rolls is significantly faster than three dice rolls, especially if you're not requiring the other player to jump in and roll some of them.*

The increase in complexity is pretty marginal anyways. In essence, it would just be a quick bit of addition to generate the target "Toughness" value and then roll To Wound as normal.

*Yes, this means that you have even less interaction in the opponent's turn, but I'd compensate by switching to a unit-by-unit activation system. No more 15-30 minute chunks of watching the opponent play with little to not input from you.

>>51614928

>bury your friend in 8 S:D

It'd be 64 STR D attacks.

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>>51614913
>>51614933
>>51614938

They were always portrayed as one enormous ship with their own Webway docks for the fleet, unless as you say this has been retconned.

>>51614974
>Per bloodthirster

read

>>51614879
I would start with a Munitorium Armored Crate and work your way up from there. There are two ways you could go about getting lots of fortifications: You could either do the Grand Company, with a Warband, then lots of Fortress auxiliary slots, or multiple CADs with solo Obliterator Troops. Don't go straight for the Fortress Redemption or any other big fortress. Rather, experiment, work your way up, and do what you can to "get a feel" for how the Iron Warriors play. If there is one Fortification I do recommend getting though, it's the Munitorium Armored Crate, because the ammo boxes and fuel tanks can either let your Obliterators act like mini-Hellhounds or let your guys shoot more accurately overall. Re-rolling 1s makes you hit 77% instead of 66% roughly, and it lets your Obliterators more reliably go into Plasma Cannon mode.

By the way, do not buy Obliterators as they're still fugly Finecast. I'd convert them from something plastic. I used Chaos Terminators, but others use Centurions for the conversion base.

>>51614874
And how is any of that "autsitic"?

>>51614976
Well yeah, it's a retcon.

>>51614990

Because I knew it would attract autistic people like yourself to comment.

>>51612049
You pronounce it "Sam's ham"

>>51614879
>>51614982
>look up fortress of redemption on gw store
>"""""only""""" $115 ameribux

damn that's surprising, aren't those things fuckhuge? I guess GW doesn't charge as much for terrain or something.

>>51615013
it's pronounced "shark harm" in the original spanish

Man, all this eldar hate makes me not want to bang out my melee only eldar army.
Not a single wraithknight or scatter laser to be seen, and yet that one faggot would stil ban me from having fun. Wew.

>>51614928

never mind, I'm retarded

its 275 points per thirster not 250

take basic wrath of khorne bloodthirsters instead actually,

7 of them and skarbrand

then you can attack those bastards and fish for 6's for that sweet decapitating blow instant death

not to mention that skarbrands fleshbane and death incarnate warlord trait will let him fuck over any of your friends models

and you'll have 200 points to spend upgrading your other thirsters

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>>51615030
It's a big fortress

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>>51615070

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>>51615070
That's what I'm talking about right there!

>>51614976
the mini ships are connected by wraithbone grown around them. when the wraithbone dissolves lots of habitat space and infrastructure is destroyed, but the underlying ships remain.

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>>51615063

if he wants to do a monster mash its your duty to show him who does it better

>>51612049
Same Han

At first I thought Necrons would suck at Kill Teams because of their lack of specialization, but the more I think about it, how disgusting would a Necron kill team be that was 9 Tomb Blades with Shieldvanes and Nebuoloscpes

What's the most irritating way to play Vanilla SM. My LGS has been infested by tourney players who have no interest in playing themselves and instead pick on noobies and fluff army guys. I don't need to win, just give them the worst game of all time.

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>>51614862
This is some good advice.
Am I able to take Perdus on my Fire Raptor?
>disks
Wouldn't disks make it impossible to hide my heralds that really only have an invuln? 2++ is good with Grimoire and malefic but still

>>51615070
I played an apocalypse game with like 3 of these puppies on one side of the table, the theme was forces of disorder (basically not-imperials) vs imperials. the imperials were holding that side of the table and a metric shitbird worth of disorder armies were supposed to crack them. twist: they had a wall of tanks in the back, so much artillery it was taking up the entire table edge and they had like 3 more table edges worth of tanks in reserves because they wouldn't fit on the table, and a baneblade right outside the fortress. it was several tables pushed together.

in the middle was my CSM, some "renegade" space yiffs, some other dude's slaanesh marines, some tau, and god knows what else. on the OTHER table opposite the imperials was the combined collection of two dude's tyranids, hundreds of gaunts n shit. so it was a clusterfuck of disorder dudes sandwiched between a wall of imperials in fortresses with artillery everywhere and an oncoming rape of tyranids. to this day I have no idea what really happened in that game because it was pure chaos with everybody yelling over each other, but I gather that we never defeated the imperials in the end.

>>51615171
Gravhammer or Gladius.

The former rockets in and fucks everything up before they get to play with their toys, the latter fills the board so full with scoring garbage that they cant chew through everything.

>>51615171

Bikes annoy me.

Bonus points if they're painted as Imperial Fists.

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I want to start playing eldar.

Would ordering a "Start Collecting" box of both factions be a good beginning to a force? I may build them and wait to paint them until I find out if Ynead is here to stay.

If I decide to go one or the other would they be okay small allied detachments?

I can't decide.

>>51615058
just go to the secret eldar players lounges

>>51615188
Discs do up your profile, which is an issue. On the other hand, the mobility is generally very much worth the investment. Besides, the moment you come across a Tau, Guard, or even the odd Ork player (much less another R&H player), Line of Sight won't matter as much. Granted, 45 points is only 45 points but still. Extra toughness and extra mobility both add up, since you can move 12, flickerfire, then turbo 24.

You can't do Perdus on the Raptor, because the bonus requires the vehicle in question to start on the table. Screams of Lugganath (the Dirge Caster one) might be cute though, since you can fly in and shut down Overwatch if you desire. If you do stick with the Rhino, there is no real drawback to sticking Perdus on it, since all the bonuses for it are "pre-game."

>>51615224
>I want to start playing eldar.
Then do it.

>>51615264
Why would he be casting Flickering Fire? Those dudes are for making sweet daemon babies, not wasting warp charge on feel no pain granting heavy bolters.

So why are the orks really fired up?

>>51612941
>Taking this post seriously
>Suggesting the tones are the same
Or
>Wanting an excuse to spam that one time he made a funny.

>>51614976
now can you point me towards the engines of that ship

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Litteraly just bought this one, right out of the epub converter.

It's the guy's first 40k novel, I know jackshit about him, but I thought I'd be nice and buy it. If you liked it, buy it as well I guess?

Good reading lads.

>>51615303
whenever you notice something like that, remember:
a wizard did it.

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>>51615265
Can you give me some advice. I can't choose WHICH eldar. Or if I want to do both.

I haven't played in years so im unsure if this is a horrible idea.

I won an (unassembled) Knight Paladin in a painting competition.

So it doesn't have the back gun or other weapons options.

If I was to obtain them, would they fit on this knight (Is there a slot on the back for the autocannon / missile pod?)

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>>51611903

You have clearly listened to much to /tg/ or your gaming group is just a bunch of WAAC fags that cant take the fact that there is always a bigger fish.
In truth, the only people having this much trouble with one team are the tournament WAAC fags that simply cant get around the fact they don't play "that" faction.
Regular people just play to have a fun time, hell, to even balance a codex that is deemed "too good" by the general opinion is one of the challenges you face when playing one of the better dexes. See, if you don't play straight out WAAC, the list building is like a thorny path, stray on to deep down one road, and you will find yourself without opponents one day, due to the fact that your list is too cheesy. Stray down another, and you will instead create utter rubbish that wont win you any games, and you will bee seen as the "tryhard" that so hard tries to deny the fact that you play the OP-faction.
But its the middle road you must walk if you play those regular games, this as much as anything can be just as tricky, because if you don't fit the local meta you might not get any games, and the few you do get is no fun at all.

But as it is obvious you play the WAAC card yourself, its hard not to give a smirk when reading your post. But I will give you this advice, is it not better to play a game and loose all the while having a good time, than to ignore your opponent completely and not have a game at all?

>>51615303

Well it's pointy at one end and fat at the other so I would assume they're at the fat end even though there is no requirement for aerodynamics in ship that never leaves space.

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>>51615282
I use Exalted Locus on my sole Herald, simply because the extra S6 shots do help pop the odd Rhino/light vehicle that's not worth wasting heavier guns on, or to finish off small squads (you know, like those 3-man Bike squads that Eldar like).

Plus in those odd games where you're up against Necrons, you don't even care about Warpflame granting FNP, since they already get 4+ Reanimation Protocols (which they take instead of FNP), so you get 3 turns to whittle away at the mandatory Warrior blobs or so (granted, your main goal is to out-objective the Necrons in most cases anyway, but removing his Gauss does help negate his ability to harm your Raptor if you wish to keep it).

My list BTW. Mind C&Cing it on your side?

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>>51615363

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>>51614542

don't listen to these shitters, what you wanna do is take a lhmalian for a 10 point HQ

then take 5 kabalites with a splinter cannon in a double cannon venom

4 of these will cost you 490 points for 72 poison shots at 36 inches, you'll force him to cower behind cover with his shrouded while your boys can cap objectives in peace

you'll also want some traktor cannons to keep his Daemon princes from flying, but you should be fine if you do stop that

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>>51615379

>>51615209
Gladius sounds more miserable. What I had in mind was some list that played a super long game while rarely letting them kill models. Gravhammer seems more fun and active but I'm also worried it will make the games too short. I want them to feel the grind.

>>51615345
After asking a similar question this week in /wip/ myself: all Knight kits share the sprues for the torso, legs, upper body and "small version's" weapons. The "big versions" like Crusaders come with an extra sprue that has the carapace weapon options and their big-ass cannons. There's some difference in how the arm weapons attach, but it's still all rather easy to magnetize.

TL;DR you just need to get your hands on the extra sprue and you should be fine and be able to magnetize it all.

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>>51615394

>>51615405

cheers, fella

>>51615334
>Or if I want to do both.
you mean all 4? 5 if you count forgeworld?
Craftworld: fast, durable hit hard. Specialized units for specialized purposes, but the generalists (due to poor internal balance) tend to win out. Can be very tough with wraith units
Dark Eldar: fast. glasscannon, with more glass than cannon. Sitting in a bad state atm, due to getting updated early 7th before the power shift.
Harlequins: fast, paper thin, hit like a truck in melee, good psychic shenanigans. Very good anti-elite army, very difficult to play well as a stand alone due to "ally" codex scope
Ynnari - all of the above combined into one army. WILL favour multiple small units on foot for best effectiveness, as their rules allow non-vehicles to do things when nearby units die.
Corsairs: what dark eldar wish they could be. If the Ynarri is an army of mixed dark eldar / eldar, the corsairs is an army where UNITS mix dark eldar / eldar. Mostly infantry based army that is super mobile with movement after shooting and jetpacks, but some good war machine back up. The HQ and detachment lets you customise your playstyle

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>>51615418

>>51615264
Would you give the terminator troop combi-flamers or melta? Writing the list now

>>51611966

This. My entire store boycotts the following cheese-faggot shitbag armies:

>Space Marines
>Eldar
>Tau
>Necrons
>Chaos Daemons
>Anything FW (R&H, Corsairs, etc.) except D-99

It's made a way more fun play environment for everyone and only neckbeards who have been collecting SPESS MURHNS for 15 years get mad over it (which is good since they're all autistic faggot LARPers anyway). Everyone else just picks a balanced army with good fluff and we have fun. Only WAACfag retards would willingly play one of the top tier armies and then complain when nobody wants to play them, kek

>>51615423
What do you think I should buy first?

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>>51615436

>>51615321
Which converter do you use? And thanks for the upload as well.

>>51615444
>Anything FW (R&H, Corsairs, etc.) except D-99
>boycotting glorious Death Korps of Krieg
Whats wrong with you

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>>51615448

Why is shadowsword from fucking Guy Haley epub is fucking impossible to find?

So I've been toying around with a casual list for Games at my store since everyone has a bad taste in their mouths after the recent egress from the WAACfags, how is this list?

+++ Krootox tau (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2017) (1498pts)

Formation Detachment (Tau Empire: Codex (2015) v2005) (478pts)

+ Formation (478pts) +

Infiltration Cadre (478pts)
Pathfinder Team [6x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Team [6x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Team [5x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder with Rail Rifle [Rail Rifle]
TX4 Piranhas
TX4 Piranha [Burst Cannon, Disruption Pod]
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Early Warning Override]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Early Warning Override]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Early Warning Override]
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Early Warning Override]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Early Warning Override]
Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon [Early Warning Override]

++ Combined Arms Detachment (Tau Empire: Codex (2015) v2005) (1020pts) ++

+ HQ (62pts) +

Ethereal (62pts) [MV4 Shield Drone]

Elites (351pts)

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (181pts)
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Plasma Rifle]
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Plasma Rifle]
Crisis Shas'ui [Early Warning Override, 2x Twin-linked Plasma Rifle]

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits (170pts)
Ghostkeel Shas'vre [Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Flamer]

Troops (477pts)

Breacher Team (125pts) [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Blaster]
TY7 Devilfish [2x MV1 Gun Drone]

Kroot Carnivores (190pts) [20x Kroot, 2x Krootox Rider, Sniper Rounds]

Strike Team (81pts) [9x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

Strike Team (81pts) [9x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

Heavy Support (130pts)

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (65pts)
Broadside [Twin-linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits (65pts)
Broadside [Twin-linked Heavy Rail Rifle, Twin-linked Smart Missile System

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>>51615468
Last one

>>51615444
As a fluff-whenever-possible Black Templar player, I wish they'd just delete Gladius, Grav and Skyhammer from existence.

I'm playing the worst variant of my army without any of the "broken" parts they all share and people STILL think I'm a massive WAACfag and tryhard.

>>51615447
What appeals to you more? No one can tell you what army to buy.
craftworlds are top tier right now, and so get a lot of hate, but can (if slightly difficultly) make toned down lists
dark eldar are widley regarded as sub par
harlequins dont even often get considered as a faction because of the ally-tier book, but are also hard to play correctly
ynnari are not even out yet, so no one has an opinion on those.
corsairs are better dark eldar, but are forgeworld so come with the associated stigma.

HONESTLY, if you have the opportunity, playtest and proxy before you buy models.
I'd rather play some test games with some proxy models than spend 100s of dollars on an army I might not even like.

>>51612793
A, I'm in Tampa. There are at least two tolerable Eldar players here.
B, eat dicks and don't ever talk to me or my meta ever again.

>>51613775
That gave me a chaos induced erection

>>51615437
I use plasma because it's the most forgiving of a bad scatter, and most flexible versus infantry and light armor.

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>>51614593

Oh boy, you don't have to bee this obvious of a "not player". You clearly have no idea about the basics of this game, other than the mathhammer of it.
I have played plenty of shit teams in my days, and have always won games deemed "impossible" by the /tg/ standard. Why? Well its obvious, Its a dice game, and not every Eldar player is a fucking golden boy winner at every tournament.
Just as many people run the OP-factions because A- they like the models or B- they red on the internet that they are an OP-faction....

I'm not saying teams don't vary in power, but the situations given (mathhammer) on /tg/, and the list from the internet hardly represent the "regular" board gamer. Hell, the Tau players I know don't smack down 9 Riptides in a tight formation. They play the game because they want a challenge, and you don't get that when you play a net-list a fucking 5 year old could come up with.

>>51615490
> MFW I run shitloads of scouts
> Sometimes I still get people occasionally saying, "Uh no thanks, if I wanted to play gladius I'd go to a tournament" when I say I run space marines.
> Almost but not quite as funny when I say I run Raptors, and they immediately start list tailoring against Chaos Space Marines.

>>51615359
Not to answer your post, but that image is surprisingly helpful.

>>51615507

Cont... (because I can)

I just played a game where my opponent slammed 6 orbital bombardment (scenario rules) on a fucking rhino.... all the while my Terminator squad was standing in the open.
I'm just saying, had this been /tg/ mathhammer, it would have been impossible for this to happen.

Is math hammer reliable?

>>51615586
Only for the purposes of optimizing the everloving shit out of lists. It can't, and won't take the place of knowing what you're doing. IE, No amount of math is going to save you if you consistently make bad plays.

>>51615586
The averages will work out. Yes, there will be games where you roll way above or way under the odds, but in the end, math is math. Play enough games and things will more or less average out as the numbers say.

>>51615586
why would it not be? math isn't subjective

that said, it's not the end all be all because you actually have to consider positioning, points costs, etc. in this game so you can't just mathhammer your way to victory. but yes, it is good to know percentages so that you can have a snapshot of your odds of succeeding at a given action

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>>51615494
I like Dark Eldar and Eldar.

The problem is the eldar units I like are aparently all cheese. (bikes, wraiths, farseers and Warp Spiders)

I love dark eldar hover crafts and infantry.

>>51615627
>>51615617
>>51615613
thank you all i was just wondering because it seems that units people say are terrible tend to actually do something in most games

>>51615613
>Only for the purposes of optimizing the everloving shit out of lists.

I'd disagree with this, quite strongly. It helps to know roughly what a unit is capable of, both dealing and resisting damage, so you can make informed decisions about what to do with it on the tabletop. If I know that a unit of Kabalite Warriors, firing out the back of a Raider with Splinter Racks, will kill about three Space Marines every time they shoot, that helps me decide how to split and direct my fire as best I can.

>>51615447

CWE are basically guaranteed to be good, always. I've played them since 4E and they've never been terrible. Sometimes they've been top cheese (there's a reason I still don't own any Wave Serpents).

DE have occasionally been good. They are usually shit. They're also aesthetically the best by far and I enjoy painting them the most. If I were starting over I would go with them and just lose every game.

Corsairs are either better than CWE or worse than DE depending on a lot of factors. Not even the list, more like your dice rolls and what you're fighting (but also the list). They're the army for "fuck you I'm going to run right up into your face, dump 20 flamer templates and 20 meltas into you, and then hope I killed you or I lose the next turn when all my units die and/or break and run off the table". I wouldn't recommend starting with them since they require conversion and have FW stigma. They're my favorite as far as actually playing goes though, it's always guaranteed lulz. Plus you can customize your army to be anything from super mega elite jetpack dudes to spam jetpack dudes to 100% jetbikes to 100% mechanized infantry and planes, without actually having to be shit (I assume, but I only use jetpack dudes so technically I'm not sure about the other ones not being shit)

tl;dr CWE is the safe bet, DE is better for modelling, pick the one you like more you double nigger. NO RAGRATS

>>51615586
It is however especially useful to know for something like Sternguard Vets. To maximize the effectiveness of sternguard vets, you absolutely need to know the enormous tree of conditional statements to know which ammo type to use and when.

Like say you're at the 15" mark against Guardsmen in cover? You can double-tap Kraken rounds at that range, giving them their 4+ cover save, or you can single tap the dragonfires for Ignores Cover, which won't allow them a save.

Against Carnifexes, is it better to use Hellfire Rounds to more or less auto-wound, or go for Vengeance Rounds to AP them out at the cost of wounding on 6s?

>>51615661
That's probably because most units can be great when in the hands of a good player. Rough Riders for example are an extremely Mediocre unit. Both in practice and on paper. But I have a great deal of success with them because I know exactly what the fuck I'm doing. And I have DISTRACTION CARNIFEXES to prevent my opponent from shooting my rough riders. It's kinda hard for people to want to shoot at the basic cavalry when there's a LEVIATHAN DREADNOUGHT roaming around their backfield.

>>51615712
If I bought both and decided to do DE would the CWE box still be a useful allied thingy for DE and other armies?

>>51615661
well sure, depends on how you define "do something", any unit can "do something"

warp talons are dog poop because their cost basically makes them assault terminators with LCs that trade their 2+ for jump packs and have 1 less attack. they will still skullfuck just about any marine unit they get in a fight with, but if you spent points on warp talons good luck winning with the rest of your gimped army. and good luck having your warp talons survive when they die to bolters.

>>51614874
This is 40k kid, Forget about anythng you thought to be impossible

>>51615444
>SM
>cheese

Am I missing something here?

>>51615656
well, its possible to play bikes wraiths and psykers without cheesing.
wraiths: close combat wraiths and wraithlords. one knight max at high point values, and avoid overuse of the d weapons (cannons are generally "okay", flamers are typically "do-not-use")
bikes: 1-per-3 heavy weapons, don't spam.
seers and spiders are "fine", especially "now" that you can't flikerjump multiple times.
Again, don't spam, and supplement with other units.
Dark eldar you can get basically whatever you want. (i think, not a DE player) the book is relatively well internally balanced (just stay away from wyches/blood brides) so that everything is relatively good compared to every other thing IN THE BOOk. as long as you run mech, that is. You're going to want a lot of vehicles, playing dark eldar.

Are Necrons seen as bullshit cheese? I just wanna play them because I love their models and fluff.

>>51615773
yes? have you been playing since grav started existing?

>>51615752
Doesn't this point to the game not being optimized around all armies but mainly around MEQs?

>>51615712
>doesn't mention quins.
Poor harlquins. Always forgotten

>>51615786
Depending on the meta, the Decurion is sometimes considered bullshit cheese (mostly with Canoptek Harvest).

Other then that, they're pretty fair. Strong, but fair.

>>51615792
Well yeah, didn't have any problem against them. I mean I olay only good friends and where not very competitive but /tg/ tends to exagerate everything anyway.

>>51615736

Yes, the CWE Start Collecting is actually a good Allied Detachment on its own, and fits well with the DE Start Collecting box. Buy a second box of Warriors, something to go with the Archon (incubi + venom) and either a Venom or two or a Raider and you've got an army to start with. Forgive the incoming terrible list formatting please.

Too lazy to figure out exact points off hand, sorry, here's a guesstimate list

Dark Eldar Realspace Raiders Detachment or CAD (doesn't really fucking matter at this point)

Archon with Agonizer and Shadow Field and shit, about 120 points
3 Incubi in a Venom about 125 points
Kabalites in a Raider with a splinter cannon and splinter racks and night shields about 180
5 Warriors in a Venom 105 points
3 Reaver jetbikes with Cluster Caltrops I forget, 73 points I think

Allied Detachment CWE 351 points
Farseer on Jetbike with Shining Spear 120
3 Scatterbikes (because you're an asshole) 81
Fire Prism with some upgrades (pick 1 or 2) 150

That's a bit over 1000 points, add something (Scourges) and get 1250. For 1000 points I guess what you could do is instead of running a Raider run two Venoms with 5 warriors each (and don't buy a 2nd box of Warriors yet), that should take you down to 1000 points.

>>51615736
Thats your call. I've always prefered "one faction one army, allies be damned", but you may find that the CWE can provide a nice fire support for the otherwise fast and not-as-punchy DE.
You may just find yourself slowly phasing out the DE when you realize that CWE can do everything better.

>>51615795
I don't know what this means but I will say 40k isn't balanced at all.

>>51615586
No. Only faith in the emperor can guide your dice rolls

>>51615656
Buy the dark eldar force, build it and paint it, then build the Eldar force.

The dark eldar force is a nice mix of infantry and bikes while the CWE set is bikes, bikes and a tank.

>>51615786
They aren't one of the MOST powerful armies - Eldar, Tau, some Marines - but they're sitting on the edge between that tier and the one below. The thing about Necrons is that a lot of the time, they're boring and frustrating to play against. Their units are just so hard to kill that it makes for a very dull game.

theoretically, a single crisis suit with two flamers (costing a measly 32 points) could easily blow apart huge numbers of imperial guardsmen with two templates, wounding on a 3+ and ignoring armor save (assuming they dont have carapace armor)

are flamer crisis suits the economists choice for destroying guardsmen, freeing up other points for dealing with their leman russ tanks or other troublesome units?

>>51615773
Non SM armies are mad that we take grav so we can compete. Grav is legit broken, but without it were just not that great

>>51615874
I mean the game is more balanced on killing Marines and things like marines so other forces seem gimped with lower saves and stats or highly advantaged with better stats and saves.

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>>51615661

Thats mostly due to the fact that a minority on /tg/ actually plays the game. Most guys are just fat neckbeards living in moms basement, never seeing any action (in games I mean!). So all they can rely on is mathhammer and exploiting the shit out of codexes by list-building and complain about GW price range (also due to the fact that fat neckbeards in moms basement rarely do much money).

>>51614593
>I will show you an eldar take all comers list

No, show me the player.

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>>51615811

They're not a stand-alone army, anon. They just aren't.

>>51615837

Turns out my math was shit. Something didn't seem right so I used BattleCrutch, here's a list you can make with minimal effort. Should be a pretty solid list too.

Requires:
>SC! DE
>SC! CWE
>1 extra box Reavers
>1 box Incubi
>2 Venoms

>>51615908
Gladius double-demi can and does run grav-light, and it's perfectly strong. Of course, free tanks is it's own kind of cancer, but still.

>>51615964

Fuck I forgot that actually requires another box of Warriors, lel. Whatever it's still cheaper than starting usually would be.

>>51615964
So I forgot to mention I will be playing probably exclusively against necrons at first.

Will either army be okay or am I gonna be raped?

My buddy has only played necrons for like 10 years.

>>51611162

This is what you would sound like if you tried to pronounce Biel-Tan "properly" due to the nasally "ie" sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzUCbCIFhPo

>>51615928
>YFW you know a guy who literally stated " I don't need an army, I know what the best army is and how to win every game with it"

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>>51615826
>>51615889

This is what I planned to run at 1k. It is the Decurion, but not the Canoptek Harvest-based one.

>>51615928
I kind of get that impression too. I'm actually a very outgoing person that has lots of friends. I go to the local game store like twice a week, every week, for the past 5 years. You can easily tell who doesn't actually play 40k in this general by the people who literally can't comprehend the existence of 'casual' play.

99% of the time, I just want to have fun at this game. Me and pretty much everyone I know just wants to have fun. I bring very fluffy casual lists, and I know how to pretend I'm retarded for the sake of people with lesser codexes.

But I'm not retarded. Sometimes I just look at the 1d4chan "tactics" pages, and I just fuckin roll my eyes at how retarded some of the shit is. Nobody that writes those tactics articles actually plays this game, so they have no actual gaming experience to draw from.

>>51616004
>/tg/ in a nutshell

I swear to God, this place would really go up in quality if more people played.

Players are very often a lot more chilled to discuss with, because THEY REALISE IT'S A GAME.

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>>51616009
>30 warriors
You can never have enough of them. They are cute! CUTE!

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>>51616004

Pffth, thats your every day /tg/ neckbeard you just described.

>Cant be wrong
>Cant be reasoned with
>don't play the game but knows every rule
>knows mathhammer is all that´s need to know
>don't paint but sure enough dish out negative critique like a golden daemon winner

Need we say more?

>>51616049
This.

Casual plays are the be all end all for 90% of the people. You have much more fun by doing fluffy lists going each other than tailoring your shit.

>>51616051
They also tend to be a fuckload less likely to go on the cheese wagon because they know a back and fourth game is way more fun than a turn 2 stomp, and playing the same optimised netlist with the same tactics against every enemy is dull as fuck.

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>>51616009
>tfw literally the same list I helped my just-starting-to-play friend put together minus the Royal Court

M-Martin? Is that you?

Looks good for casual play.

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Natfka has images from Fracture of Biel-Tan

>>51615986
consider buying a second syaty collecting box and sell the archon, I'm sure you can find use for a second raider.

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>>51616153

>>51616147

Nope, not Martin.

I suppose it's reasonable that they're that similar, the Decurion doesn't leave much wiggle room at 1k. You get your reclamation legion and your one aux to kick it off, and that's it. I just went with Deathmarks because their models are cool and their fluff is badass. Who doesn't love HYPERSPACE ASSASSINS.

>>51616084
Well I'm partially guilty of the last one, though I do give useful advice.

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>>51616176

>>51616153
So does this confirm that all units in the book get soul burst?

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>>51616192

>>51616193
pretty much. Any Ynarri faction detachment replaces Battle Focus, ancient doom, and Power From Pain with Strength from Death

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>>51616216

>>51616192
note that its a

>>51616216
Do we know if there is a color scheme for Ynnari?

I really like the colour scheme, and I have a lone Farseer to paint after last year's secret santa on the wip thread.

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>>51616235
whoops

>>51616192
note that its a CAD + unlimited formations as one detachment

Welp eldar confirmed for stronger than ever