Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>51590974
She doesn't have one.

What's more important for a Cleric, getting the handy haversack first or the lesser Extend rod first?

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Here are my picks for Fluffy2. If anyone wants my reasoning for any pick, I'm willing to give it.

#1: Ryu(ko) Fuwashita
#2: Kimbrely R. Hemford
#3: Jianshi Li
#4: Ihagi Naoi

But scheduling can change this. So I've got a list of runners-up. If any of my main picks can't make a schedule, I'll contact a runner-up in this priority order.

Runner-up #1: Lasval Remy
Runner-up #2: Musuhime
Runner-up #3: Sechi Kochi
Runner-up #4: Akane Kohakuren
Runner-up #5: Ri Jiezou

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>Page 4
>Page
>4
>Four

OP...

>>51590994
What is this, an angry Skeletor for ants?

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>>51591005
He's very angry, but also very tiny. It's a metaphor representing how the anger in me is there, but insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Really makes you think.

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I have done way, way too many homebrew archetypes as it's something I do when I get bored. The most recent is the Pegaus Knight, a paladin archetype for flying mounted combat and purity. A rather strong 'Fuck spellcasters' sub-theme.

Pegasus Knight
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FxyQ98xHryv8BS23EN-WqAEou3DoJWlQdw4U6eOFLjw/edit?usp=sharing

Phenomenal Prestidigitator (Spellburst savant archetype, charimsa-based stage magician)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hl4iSN5el-ohN9paOuf_1TszJK9_srUXZFxj-HMpz8/edit?usp=sharing

Concecrafted Chorist (More supportive spellburst savant archtype with a musical theme)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qdpAD6J37KQFPHSZq4v0PUHsqRZBm4FTxVCMutFCFtI/edit?usp=sharing

Glorified Glossolalist (Divine spellburst savant archtype)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g3-Htf7HYQn6E3_BluPpZAtv3MPMUG3131P1N5L2dwU/edit?usp=sharing

All of them save the Phenomenal Prestidigitator are very much still in alpha, so feedback would be appreciated. Sorry for posting this in a few previous threads, trying to get some balance feedback as I know that the creator is the worst person to actually evaluate their own work.

I'm also currently working on some stuff for Upper Class characters (As I was rather disappointed with the High Court book actually offering stuff on that front). It's still in design though so it's not up for look over until I've got a bit more for people to read. Is there anything people would like on the upper class character front that Pathfinder doesn't do very well right now?

>spend tons of effort making a character for a face-to-face game with an old group
>two hours into the game and three unlucky crits later she ded
>everyone is level 2, resurrection is far away
>GM just kind of looks at me and says I can play her pet panda until they get a rez
Now I am become Pondo, destroyer of bamboo.

>>51590974
>>51590989
So...this is what happened with the Pathfinder community...

>>51591053
not really, we just have a couple of assholes and a furry.

>>51591083
>a couple
No, anon, it's not just "a couple".

Ok so memes aside, whats a fun class for a generic western fantasy orc that dual wields axes and not much else. Obviously, bonus special abilities would be good but not to the point where it interferes with aforementioned dual weilding of axes.

>>51591050
This is why I wholeheartedly support the GM avoiding accidental death with fudges or fiat.

D&D has evolved from its original design as a combat sim into a very strange mix of RP and sudden death and the two are often at incompatible odds with each other.
Death should happen when it's significant, not because bad dice rolls decided to kill off a sheet with hours of dedication.

Alternately, in high death games, players naturally end up caring and investing less into each PC they play.

>>51591050
Just play her long lost cousin or sibling - Arpees and works just like the formerington.

>>51591083
"a" furry? At least every second of your generals has some kind of furry creature as a pic with a weird question as a topic.

>>51591050
If I were the GM I'd probably just have her get knocked out or 'heavily injured' or something and make it a miniquest to help a doctor gather some rare herbs he's out of stock for so she can get treatment or something
That or just say "lol redo the encounter"
Any deaths happening in the first session just ruin the mood unless that's what he's going for

>>51590989
>>51590989
I'm kind of surprised that there's no salt over the trap getting in with almost no contest.

>>51591111
>>51591083
>kitsune
>furries
I have bad news.

>>51590989
Why is Akane in the runnerup?

Not that I think they deserved to be in, I think that character DESERVED TO BURN.

DO YOU HEAR ME SIRIUS!? BURN. NEVER BRING FLUFFY TAILS INTO ONE OF MY GAMES.

>>51591129
Go away with your weeabo stuff

>>51591094
Slayer. Dump dex. Cheat your feats. Pick up shatter defense.

>>51591136
no u

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>>51591126
It's their fault for not making traps themselves.

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>>51591134
What's wrong with Akane? She's cute. CUTE!

What's a good build for a Shelynite slut?

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>that fucking salt from Captain Trek getting rejected from Fluffy 2

>>51591164
Ok ok I'll bite. Give us a link to the PC bios that got accepted and a link to whatshisnames nigger.

>>51591111
It's one REALLY REALLY devoted faggot that mods won't nut up and permaban.

>>51590989
Why'd Ihagi get in with a half-done WIP app over some of the others?

>>51591183
If this is true, then this is one scary individual

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>>51591184
I just liked the way his backstory was presented, even if it was incomplete.

Okay, /pfg/, I've homebrewed a bunch of gun rules for a modern fantasy game. I've posted here a few times, but I feel confident enough that it's more or less finished to post it. (A few things aren't 100% done, but they're things that I can't decide on. See my comments for my dumb thoughts.) Now tell me if it's garbage or not, the people I've shown it to thus far are all friends who wouldn't say anything bad about it even if they saw something wrong.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u9lqoJ0Wi-CJ3pUCB5etOdPNgE6MBrJZWSYo4hAZs1s/edit?usp=sharing

Reminder that lower damage and not targeting flat-footed/touch are a function of everyone worth firing them at being a supernatural Champion chosen by a well of divinity to enact heroic tales and blah blah blah. On a pleb, literally any attack, firearm or not, is going to be an instakill.

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>>51591175
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/65518/a-fluffy-fairy-tale-2-electric-boogaloo

>>51591193
You'll note he also makes a new Pathfinder thread very early into autosage to guarantee he's the one who gets to make it.

Next someone sees N. Jolly, tell him to keep my leak info off the boards until subscribers get their stuff.

I don't want to have to stop sharing my stuff if I start getting heat.

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>>51591111
Isn't it better than 5e's, at least?

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>>51591196
>>51590989
Any advice for someone else plotting to GM for /pfg/?

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>TFW no fluffy 5e game

>>51591164
>that fucking salt
It was just one po-
>3 more posts since then
ok, yeah, there's the average daily salt requirements for a month right there.

>>51590989
Such fucking weebery

>>51591223
Anyone who actually gives a fuck ignores the weeb/furry who makes the thread and actually talks about the game, though.

>>51591223
No. It's not. The 5e ops are universally better. Pfg ops haven't been good for a long time. They used to be about game mechanics or world holding or character builds. The art used to be Pathfinder related instead of random anime and furry art. We used to argue about how evil iomedae has to be in order to torture the people helping her for failing at trivia.

So, for the anon saying Slayer is terrible. Why is it a terrible class? I thought it was better than most martials.

>>51590765
>I shouldn't be salty about it, but it's disheartening to know your best efforts aren't even good enough to get into the top 10 out of 25 applications.
You should learn something from this, and know to get into games the solution is simple, just git gud.

The above advice is entirely meant earnestly, and in a dark souls fashion.
First, don't be afraid to try and fail, if you want to have a chance of succeeding. Second, learn from your mistakes and adapt. What went wrong in what you did, and look at what was successful and consider what was good about them.

Lastly, if you're stuck, go ahead and ask for help. I'm not Kon Kon, but which was your character? We at /pfg/ could probably give you some breakdowns on what could have been done better.

>>51591111
The general assumption is that these OPs are all being made by the same person.

>>51591280
Either that or we misjudge thje PF playerbase

>>51591233
>Implying fluffy could even exist in 5e

>>51591232
Advice about what aspect of gming?

>Allow DSPs pow and psionics series.
>Wbl is an important rule, not just a suggestion.
>Limit to 3 adjacent tiers at most.

That's the best you're going to get out of me at 5am without a specific question.

Starfinder when?

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>>51591262
Slayer doesn't have enough sneak attack to be worth specializing in it, and while Studied Target is a fantastic ability it hampers the already strained martial action economy. At least, until 7th level.

You get a great ability in ranger combat styles... But at that rate, why not just be a ranger? You are effectively trading out spells, animal companions, wild empathy, ect. just for sneak attack when you go Slayer instead of Ranger.

>>51591289
We don't. We misjudge what portion of the PF fanbase comes to this god forsaken hellhole.

>>51591262
>the ops used to be better!
You can find kitsune OPs going back to 2014.
>the guy saying slayer is bad
Is either trolling terribly or hasn't looked at Slayer. Slayer is solid Tier 4.

>>51591280
It's a pretty safe assumption, tbf. They have similar images (foxgirls usually, occasionally it just barely avoids being literal porn) and have similar topics (How cute was your last foxgirl? How fluffy was her tail? etc.)

>>51591306
They're weren't consistently good. They were just not terrible every time.

>>51591302
Except you can study retroactively as an immediate whenever you land a sneak attack, and since you have nothing else to do with your swift actions you'll be doing that all the time. Read the class before you comment on it.

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Hey fuckos.

I was looking over the class page for unchained monk and I noticed that "A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."

Now, the description of Improved Natural Strike says that it applies only to natural weapons, not unarmed strikes.

The feat improves natural weapons, so by the description on monk's unarmed strikes, it should be legit.

What do you guys think? I've heard that PFS doesn't allow it but I think it's a bit silly that they'd gimp Monk even more than they already have.

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>>51591307

>>51591328
Do you mean Improved Natural Attack? Because that feat specifically calls out that it doesn't work with unarmed strikes, and I'm inclined to agree.

>>51591328
The clause only works one way tho

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>>51591134
>Implying Morgan wasn't the best character in your old game.

>>51591159
Don't worry. Just some nice banter. I appreciate you for defending Akane [more than once?]

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>>51591297
Anything you wish you established right from the start? Regrets, mistakes made, thoughts on how it could go better?

... Or we can both get some sleep. I wouldn't mind that. 5:00 AM saps my sentience too.

>>51591328
Maybe? It's definitely something you'd want to ask your DM about, since your argument is valid. The counterargument would be that the "natural weapon" for the feat is referring to a natural attack like a slam, bite, claw, etc.

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>>51591344

>>51591302
Extra feat at 4 and 10 and you're never dead on study. Sneak attack is a bonus, 6 feats by 6 then swift study on 7 is great early progression.

>>51591346
Yeah, that's the one I meant. So you're saying that you don't think it should work with monk's unarmed strikes? I can see why you'd say that, because it would seem to lean that way just going off RAW. But then, what's the point of saying that Monk's unarmed strike counts as a natural weapon for spells and effects that improve natural weapons? Magic fang already specifies that it includes unarmed strikes, can you think of any effects that improve Natural weapons without specifically allowing or disallowing unarmed strikes?
>>51591350
How do you mean?

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>>51591294
For years, I have studied exactly how 5e works. I know every ruling, piece of trivia, RAW to RAI. Understanding the exact format of the spellcasting feature, knowing that magic missile's damage is only rolled once, realizing Oathbreaker is horribly overpowered and having graphs and charts that can even model the damage of the 'savage attacker' features despite all the variables it has. All the ways high level spells can break the game, all the broken uses for UA and how to play a not-shit monk.

And now, with this sacred knowledge I shall turn my back on the threads that nurtured me to instill a new era of darknesss and degeneracy by using my influence to force Wizards to release a new UA article for a new race of my own creation that, despite being playtest material, will be accepted by 90% of DMs. And I shall call it 'The Kitsune'.

5e will never be the same again, and the entirety of /5eg/ will explode into chaos with kitsune pictures being posted everywhere. The kitsune pictures will attract more degenerates and the thread will slowly become Kitsune D&D Generals.

The gears of war are turning, and now is the time for corruption.

What do you mean you're not going to publish my custom UA, Wizards?

>>51591252
You can do both desu

>>51591354
Don't allow Path of War, it's a trap. Martials win combat, spellcasters still win everything else. It's boring and samey and if one character has it, every martial has to have it because the HP of every enemy that's meant to exist for more than one standard action has just fucktupled. I ran every single campaign with it since the playtest way back in the day, and it legitimately killed my enthusiasm for GMing. I left PF to go play other systems, and only recently got up the desire to return with the Spheres of Might kickstarter.

Psionics is terrible and bursty too with a huge nova problem, but that's spell point systems. Otherwise it's not actually worse than Vancian spellcasting, so kudos on DSP for not fucking something up.

If you're actually a brand-new GM, don't GM for /pfg/. GM for someone who doesn't demand random 3PP stuff that triples your reading requirement and you probably still won't understand until a few months into the game. GM for people who won't make terrible, weeby characters.

And disallow the furry races, while you're at it.

>>51591407
Based WotC

>>51591391
It says that because it can be affected by both Lead Blades and... the animal one, the name escapes me.

Remember, specific trumps general- Monk's fist count as both, sure, but Imp. Natural Attack specifically states that it doesn't work with unarmed strikes, natural weapons or not.

>>51591429
>The animal one
... You mean magic fang?

Do any classes other than paladin give immunity to fear and other such mind related effects? I want to be that guy who just puts on sunglasses when the explosions start and can bluff a pit fiend into a game of chance.

>>51591411

>Psionics is terrible and bursty too with a huge nova problem, but that's spell point systems.

You know you're only allowed to spend PP = Manifester Level, right? They can't push a power any further than a spell.

>>51591435
No, there's a natural-attack specific spell that grants +2 dice increase for one natural weapon.

I think.

I haven't slept in twenty-eight hours, though. So I might be hallucinating.

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>>51591411
I'm not new. I debated allowing Path of War, and I think it can work WITH THE RIGHT PLAYER, but there's not much of a way to tell they aren't going to be That Guy just from an application.

Not a big fan of psionics either. Seems like the only psionic class anyone ever wants to use is soulknife, which bothers me, but to tell the truth I don't 100% understand how it works and can't judge.

The setting I'm in has a lot of importance placed on vancian magic and how that changes the world, so I'm even on the fence about spheres of power, but I think going 1pp only is being kind of a stickler. Givin it all a think.

>>51591444
Yeah, but you can easily cast like 80 9th level spells in a single day, round after round. At high levels, manifesters are little walking supernovas of the brokeness that is 9th level spells.

>>51591435
Strong Jaw.

>>51591456
Alright, I'm glad to hear that you're not brand-new hoping to run a game from here. I probably could have gotten that from reading comprehension, but eh.

That's interesting, anon. How has Vancian magic changed the world? I would think it would make some certain things ridiculously easy, but anything not covered by a spell would be considered extremely hard, since it has to be done the manual way that people aren't used to. But I'm interested to hear your take on it.

>>51591411
>Psionics is terrible and bursty too with a huge nova problem
NOW THIS IS BAIT
>>51591461
9th Level power!=9th Level Spell in terms of power and how many games even get to fucking level fucking 17.

Also 9th level Psionic powers cost 17 pp UNAUGMENTED so before bonus points if you do NOTHING ELSE ALL DAY UNAUGMENTED you can use them 20 times.

>>51591461

Assuming your guy casts them at the minimum of 17th ML and has 450 PP (A god damn lot) he'll get 26 castings a day.

The issue there is that psionic powers scale a lot worse than spells because you NEED to spend those points. If he casts Energy Ball, he'll get a 17d6+17 fireball out of it.

A wizard casting Meteor Swarm gets 30d6 damage that can be divided up into 4 poor bastards eating 8d6 and everyone within 40ft of them taking 6d6 if the wizard wants.

>>51591521

You are forgetting bonus from stat. I was assuming somewhere in the 30 range for stats. So you know, pushing it up like crazy. So a bit more than 20 but not a heap more.

>>51590989
>both Nemone and Kagerou only got runners up
too bad, so sad

>>51591521
Psions throws out 20 9th level powers a day. Wizards get 4. Hmmm, I wonder if there's a problem there. Nah, surely not, DSP is perfect and does everything right.

Also 9th level powers are the same power level, most of the 9th level powers are literally just reskinned 9th level spells.

>>51591280
These threads kinda burned out for a while as these OPs became consistent and presumably they have attracted new anons now (or expectations have been adjusted) so that they're more in line with the OP set-up.

>>51591563
Ah thank you, forgot about that, but still not heaps more and you needs those power points to do other things as well.

He needs to spend points on his flight, his inertial armor, his buffs, His meta-psionics, any other class features and items he might have, and augmenting those powers accordingly.

Also using level 17 is a fucking poor measure for balance regardless as EVERYONE SHOULD BE A BUSTED PIECE OF SHIT BY THAT POINT.

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>>51591497
The manual way of doing things isn't lost, but people born with minor and specialized spell-like abilities are not at all rare. They tend to organize into guilds of people with specialized magical abilities in their field, making something like purchasing a spellcaster's services rather easy. Minor diseases that can be easily cured through magic are a thing of the past, and a village can always pool together for magical help in getting through a drought or famine. Peace and stability result.

Meanwhile, true spellcasters don't tend to concern themselves with menial tasks. They either set about inventing new spells, creating magical items of usefulness and importance(autoplows! airships! TRAINS!) and addressing larger issues. Full spellcasters are just as common as in any other DnD setting(that being not very common) but they get a lot more done in general because there's no real prejudice against spellcasters and the guilds manage more everyday magic.

I'm not sure where Spheres comes in, to tell the truth.

>>51591590
>Also 9th level powers are the same power level, most of the 9th level powers are literally just reskinned 9th level spells
No they aren't. You cock gobbling shit muncher.

PSIONICS AND SPELLS WORK ON FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT ASSUMPTIONS. THEY AREN'T EQUIVALENT OUTSIDE OF A FEW GENERIC THINGS.

See the THE ENTIRETY OF THE AUGMENTATION SYSTEM

>>51590974

That woman has an unusually large tail!

>>51591602
My point isn't necessarily 9th level powers, though they demonstrate my point most clearly. At every level, a Psion/Wilder can cast significantly more spells of any level than a Wizard or Sorcerer can of every level.

Also, the "they have to spend PP on other things too" is bullshit, because that's going to subtract, what, 50pp at the absolute most? Leaving them still casting several times more spells of any level in a day than a wizard can in a week.

>>51591615
Don't even bother. His argument doesn't hold weight on any level (a single casting of a 9th level can be game breaking - it doesn't matter how many times you can cast it), so now he's just fishing for (You)s.

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>>51591407
It cannot be.

>>51591606
I see.

Perhaps the concept of hedge mages? Mages that don't do REAL magic, but are passable enough that the common person probably won't notice the difference, but are still generally looked down on by the 'proper' casters, even the inherent (SLA) ones.

Would you play a game that doesn't involve scantily clad little girls?

If the answer is yes, would you also play a game that doesn't involve scantily clad little boys?

If the answer is yes, would you also play a game that doesn't involve humanoids that have the appearance of scantily clad little girls and little boys?

These are important questions.

>>51591638
>At every level, a Psion/Wilder can cast significantly more spells of any level than a Wizard or Sorcerer can of every level.
Because for the most part, their powers are weaker, Unless all your vancian users do is blast, the Psion is still coming up short.
>50pp at the absolute most?
No it's not, you are SEVERLY underestimating how often a Psionic character needs to augment their powers to keep abreast of a vancian caster.

>>51591658
Yes, yes, and yes. Especially if it also counts out scantily clad, but adult, humanoids with animal ears and tails.

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>>51591658
>No Humanoids

Are there at least Dragons, Anon?

>>51591602

>Also using level 17 is a fucking poor measure for balance regardless as EVERYONE SHOULD BE A BUSTED PIECE OF SHIT BY THAT POINT.

Oh yeah. I'm using it mostly due to the mention of '90 9th level spells a day'. 17ML is the closest there is to 9th level spells.

>>51591638

You are forgetting that you need to spend PP to improve the base DC of your powers. Your powers are going to plink off more or less everything unless you push them full of PP.

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>>51591657
That makes sense. Someone that doesn't have innate spell-like abilities, but isn't properly taught magic either? Self-taught or aberrant magic stuff?

It's a plausible enough excuse.

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>>51591407
What's so bad about Oathbreaker, kitsune anon?

>>51591691
Or cabals, or local witch-doctors, or whatever. The good thing about Spheres of Power is that you can just tell your players to slot it into the world themselves with the Traditions system.

Psions will outshine your average Wizard easily but that's not really Psionics faults. Vancian casting is fucking piss weak until you realize how to be efficient with it, at which point you crack the game open.

Vanician is the fucking pinnacle of shit-ass design.

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>>51591718
I do love the fluff-flexibility of Spheres. Sure, it's in. Now I can say I'm not a stickler for 3pp!

>>51591729
But muh quadratic wizards.

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>>51591456

Why not do tier 3 Paizo + Forrest + N. Jolly + Spheres of Might?

>>51591729
How'd you replace Vanician spellcasting and similar variant of time-constraint-based spellcasting (ie, abilities you can use X number of times per encounter, scene, day, session, etc)?

>>51591745
I'd like Might to be out of early alpha first, even if it is tempting.

>>51591233
I didn't submit and wouldn't play in that game, but if I had my submission would have been a real, actual fox given sapience by radical druids and pretending they are a kitsune.

>>51591688

Delete this.

>>51591733

DELETE THIS

>>51591757
Spheres and Psionics works fine for me.

>>51591744
>implying they aren't
They go from being able to make their hair multicolor and shoot colors out of their hand to being able to make entire worldplanes and literally wish upon a star
If that's not quadratic or even exponential I'm not sure what is

>>51591757
I feel like logically you either use some sort of mana + ability system or you say 'wizards can cast shit whatever the fuck they want as long as they actually know the spell' but make the spells harder to get or take time to cast instead (so maybe announce Fireball the round before you cast it)
Vancian casting just doesn't make sense unless it's literally a talisman mage who uses up prepared rune tags / scrolls of some sort to cast magic

>>51591411
>Martials win combat, spellcasters still win everything else
It would be less an issue if the base system allowed martials to do more than full attack each round, anon.
The reason a lot of people use PoW is because all of a sudden, you don't need to laser focus on being a good melee combatant in order to stand on the same level of others, it's built in, so you can expand to other concepts.
My current pc, a Warder, is the party tactician, face, AND defensive wall, all at the same time, is excellent at all of them, and has no appreciable loss of combat strength despite my focus on knowledge skills, social skills and attached feats.
You just couldn't have the same success in PF base.
>Psionics
You are regurgitating wrong opinions here, anon.

>>51591411
>GM for people who won't make terrible, weeby characters
>implying
I challenge you to give me even one character who isn't a little 'weeby' whatever that means

>>51591840
You couldn't, anon.
If you filed the name off any great western hero of myth, people would scream about how "weeb" they are until you told them who you were describing.

>>51591859
That's what I'm talking about

>>51591859
That's probably because post-WW2 American-influenced Japan has relentlessly plundered Western myths for pop culture products though.

>>51591638
On average, a 20th level psion spends 50-60 points in a single combat to protect themselves and be effective against an enemy, and that's each combat. That includes AC, saves, and movement. Otherwise they're sitting ducks.

>>51591876
No anon it's because idiots think anything overpowered or not 'realistic' is weeb since anime when shit comes down to it is just another medium to tell stories - often fantasy.
How is Shinji any more weeb than someone like Siegfried? I'd say Siegfried would be more weeb than Shinji to most people, he's literally fucking invicible.

>>51591907
I think that
>anime when shit comes down to it is just another medium to tell stories - often fantasy
Is not exactly correct because anime definitely has a context and certain traditions or stereotypes that distinguish it from e.g. Der Ring des Nibelungen but you're right that:
>idiots think anything overpowered or not 'realistic' is weeb

What are some gimmicky, but fun classes?

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>>51590974

>>51591930
It has stereotypes but they're hardly applicable to most D&D games unless you literally say TADAIMA ONIICHAN and all sorts of /a/ or 2ch memes
I've literally gotten called a weeb for playing a 'shonen protagonist'
Said protagonist was a textbook lawful (stupid) good paladin.

>>51591946
>Said protagonist was a textbook lawful (stupid) good paladin.
I think that kinda burns into the Japan recycling Western stuff it had a taste for post-WW2 but sure, I agree with your general drift.

>>51591935
Alchemist, Magus. Basically any half-castery type.

>>51591938

200% improvement

>>51591956
Can we ban fox/furry posters?

It started out subtle, but now with the constant "lol here is a technically not pron OP image & "how big is your characters furry vagina?" OP text I feel that one very dedicated autistic asshole is trying to skew the trend of the general.

And god dam it this is why people hate furrys, because they can't just keep their fucking fetish to themselves and keep trying to make it not only into a "lifestyle", but they try to force it on everyone else too.

>>51591973
NO it fucking isn't.

We should remove the degenerate fetish posters.

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>>51591157
I would've made a trap if I hadn't thought my original character was a sure thing...and then I didn't even make it into runners up...

>>51592042
Fuck you. Go to the ERP forums and leave us alone.

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>>51592030
Not him but honestly kitsune are not furries anymore than catgirls are furries
Please use the correct term.

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Alright /pfg/, pick one and only one psychi skelington lich or regular skelington lich?

>>51592030
Can we ban shitposters posters?

It started out subtle, but now with the constant "I fuckin hate foxposters and whine whine whine?" Shit text I feel that one very dedicated autistic asshole is trying to skew the trend of the general.

And god dam it this is why people hate shitposters, because they can't just keep their fucking autism to themselves and keep trying to make it not only into a "lifestyle", but they try to force it on everyone else too.

>>51592057
Catfolk are furries

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>>51592057
Yeah. Sure thing.

>>51591946
Describe the feats of Beowulf or Cu Cuchuthlain to someone without using their names and I guarantee at least someone in this thread would howl about how "weeb" they are.
I'm tempted to do just that when the thread breaks 200 posts.
>>51592057
Still adds nothing to the thread, so fuck off.
>>51592061
There is no appreciable difference between the 2 besides "fluff" and how the GM runs them behind the screen.
I choose both, they are twin brothers who are at odds with each other, and will assist the party in bringing the other to their knees.

>>51592057
I don't give a fuck what you think the technically correct term is. This soft-core porn bullshit needs to stop.

>>51592067
>quit posting degenerate furry porn
>NO U QUIT SHITPOSTING!
I shouldn't have expected anything better from a furry I guess.

>>51592076
Except nobody but you has posted full furry Kitsune?

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>>51591733
Cute.

>>51591777
CUTE.

>>51592078
>>51592077
>>51592074
Just call them cancer if you want them gone
They are literally not furries though

>>51592078
>hyperbole hyperbole look at me I'm an autistic asshole

>>51592076
That isn't a kitsune
That's a fox standing upright.

>>51592030
>Can we ban fox/furry posters?
No, they are the people keeping your threads alive. If it was one dedicated asshole, he or she has already succeeded.

>>51592093
>implying they aren't just furrys posting technically not furry to shift the norm closer to their degenerate fetish.

>>51592120
They aren't, go to the /jp/ monstergirl thread, post an actual furry, see how fast you get 20+ (you)s telling you to fuck off immediately and get the hammer

>>51592093
I didn't call them furries, I called them shitposters that detract from the intent of the thread.

>>51592061
Neither. Liches are dumb. Vampires are worse. In fact, if it's undead it's clearly too stupid to live, so destroy it.

At this point more people are flinging shit about 'furries' than there are 'furry' pictures in the thread
I honestly bet if we stopped reacting they'd stop too
At most he'd post like 3 images a thread

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>>51592134
>liches are dumb

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So what's your favorite random (slotless) magic item? Mine's http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/feather-token/tree-token

What can you do with an instant tree, you ask?

Instant, more easily climbable surface to get you 60 feet up that cliff!

Have your fighter chop it down next to a river or canyon and make a bridge!

Climb up with a bow and snipe from the branches!

Block off a narrow passageway!

Get out of pit-trap free card!

Use Forest Friend on it!

Use Wood Shape for shenanigans!

Awaken it for an instant ally!

Put down one somewhere else then put one down where you're at and teleport between them with Tree Stride!

Many and more other useful spells on the Druid spell list!

>>51592102
That's a Pathfinder Kitsune.

>>51592153
Well it's true - if they were smart they'd have found immortality while alive so they can actually enjoy living forever. Literally too stupid to live.

>>51592152
It comes and goes in cycles. The Kitsune threads have been more frequent lately but most often it's 2 or 3 non-Kitsune threads and then one starts up again. Then it slowly becomes more frequent until there's backlash from all the angry newfaggots that haven't learned to ignore shit they don't like and it eases off a bit and the cycle renews.

>>51592164
Kitsune is a Japanese word with specific connotations, you can't call something with ten legs a human.

/pfg/, I need your help.

I'm joining a game run by a mostly new DM and composed of mostly new players. I want to play a character that will allow me to act as a secret-second-DM, in that I have the in-game abilities to ensure that:
>everyone has fun
>everyone gets a turn in the spotlight
>I can prevent a TPK when the DM makes a mistake
>(optional) I can make a fight last longer or be more interesting by not helping much at all, even though it looks like I'm helping as much as I can.
>I can do all of the above while not obviously being the strongest or most versatile character in the party.

>>51592173
My lich got tricked into it by a devil, she was looking up ways to extend her own life so she could remain with her elven lover.

>>51592158
You know now that I think about it, I'd love to just carpet-bomb a city with dozens upon dozens of these fuckers. It'd be relatively cheap and pretty devastating in terms of the time it'd take to clear out everything.

>>51592191
A bard, possibly a buff based vitalist.

>>51592152
The furry game was literally looking for:

>Here's what my final picks will be:

>#1: Cute trap.
>#2: Big titty girl.
>#3: Small/medium titty girl, maybe another big titty girl if she's really compelling.
>#4: Flex slot. Ideally I'd want a non-trap guy for this one, but I'd also settle for another trap or girl.

>>51592191
Play a wizard.

Also, if you were my player I would tie you up, whip you like a fucking uppity little submissive, and send you home naked with "I HATE FUN" written on your back and chest using indelible markers.

And you'd be lucky that if was all I would do, you fucking piece of shit.

>>51592191
Wizard just for sheer versatility
If you want to make an encounter or quest more interesting just prepare shittier spells that still look somewhat legit.
That or Bard / Ranger, depending on campaign.

>>51592158
I have always been a stalwart fan of the many alchemical items you could make, and much appreciated how PF expanded on what is in print.
The different blanches are always good in a pinch, and even some of the drugs are very handy.
>>51592191
Stop being a shitty player and trying to backseat DM. If you have that many problems with the game, you shouldn't be in it. Also, what >>51592211 said.

>>51592077
I don't care what a character does when judging if they're a weeb or not. I think a lot of the "animoo" power tropes are cool and interesting when applied to tabletop.

It's people who show up to a western fantasy game with a kitsune ninja with a full Japanese name who uses Japanese honorifics for no real reason that really blast my ass.

>>51592197
Well, I think we can let that slide - though a ressurection spell will cure the lichdom when she finds true immortality.

>>51592210
Just ignore it then, he's not posting the transcripts in the thread right?

>>51592219
>It's people who show up to a western fantasy game with a kitsune ninja with a full Japanese name who uses Japanese honorifics for no real reason that really blast my ass.
That's just out of setting disgusting shit that has no reason to exist within the game not weeb
I don't want Mr. James Henry Roberts the cowboy to join my game in Magical China either.

>>51592030
This botching add nothing to the thread, and was a nonsequiter to the conversation you linked to

Fuck off

>>51592176
And within the Pathfinder setting, it has specific connotations too.

That's a Pathfinder Kitsune, not a Japanese Kitsune. And we're in the Pathfinder general.

>>51592231
Both of those are actually great.

>>51592210
>The furry game was literally looking for
You'll note the furry game was looking for non-furry imagery and yokai kitsune (i.e. looks like human girls with animal ears and tails), and the one person who applied with an actual furry image got told straight out he wouldn't get accepted with that picture?

>>51592191
...I might recommend my very strange character. It's a bit... niche. But it might suit what you want.
Human Chained Monk (Ki Mystic, Sensei)
Get Helpful, Fools for Friends, Creed of Protection, Combat . Max wisdom.
Basically, you get the ultimate support character. You run around going "and YOU get +4 to hit, and YOU get +4 to AC, and YOU get +4 on that Knowledge Check to learn the setting lore. Plus Inspire Courage."

>>51592251
Oh sorry, I forgot people who masturbate to anime foxgirls don't like to be called furries ;^)

>>51592231
True, but I've only seen that once out of multiple Asiatic games I've played/run. Almost every Western game gets an Asian character, which has frustrated me into dismissing "weeby shit" out of hand.

>>51592217
For sure, there's plenty of ways to avoid/heal/negate ability score damage anyway (the most obvious being paladin), so drugs can be quite useful.

>>51592274
Drug addict paladin is a trip in many senses.

>>51592249
>actually great
No not if they have no reason to exist
Like, okay - if I'm running magical China and Mr. Matteo Gabriel Ricci the trader with a gun shows up at court and goes on a quest - fine. But I don't want a random American cowboy who has literally no reason to be here except rule of cool and is obnoxious about being so. Luckily there's an offhand solution - off with his fucking head.

>>51592270
It's because it's "exotic"
To most people asian shit is exotic so if they joined an asia game they're there to play asians. If they join a western game they are not necessarily there to play western.

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>>51592269

>>51592030
Please no, let them post or they will spread to other threads. Keep those weirdos in your containment thread.

>>51592221
Isn't it only true resurrection that cures undeath? I can't remember. I play her on Sigil (Neverwinter Nights 2) as a member of the Dustmen looking to purge her emotions and also purge her desire for revenge against the devil that did it to her.

>>51592282
>is obnoxious about being so
This is the only bad part.

>>51592211
>>51592217
I can see what you mean, but I've been playing RPG games for literally twenty years and this guy has never run a game before.

But it seems like wizard is the "correct" choice for this. I might go with sorcerer though. I'm much more comfortable with spontaneous casters.

What would be a good way to build this character?

>>51592260
Hold up. Jesus that sounds perfect. Mystic Insight sounds amazing. I've never played a monk before. Ever. Time to do some research!

>>51592300
It's the same with Asians in european games
Like fine I can deal with some Asian traveller / pilgrim / whatever but I don't want someone who's obnoxiously Japanese unless he's prepared to take the logical consequences of -10 on all CHA rolls because he's annoying.

>>51592284
Please only reply to my posts if you are:

#1: Cute trap anon.
#2: Big titty girl anon.
#3 Small/medium titty girl anon, maybe another big titty girl anon if your post is really compelling.
#4. Flex slot. Ideally I'd want a non-trap guy anon reply for this one, but I'd also settle for another trap anon or girl anon.

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What's your favourite thing about Pathfinder Kitsunes?

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Reminder

>>51592304
So? Let him learn. All you're going to do is make him feel discouraged and inferior, or, worse, prevent him from noticing his mistakes since you're covering them, meaning he never gets better.

>>51592304
I've played it a few times before, but always at very low levels. In theory it gets better as you level up, but I can't promise that.
Are you starting at level 1? It does kinda suck waiting for Wis-to-Hit to kick in.

>>51592304
>I can see what you mean, but I've been playing RPG games for literally twenty years and this guy has never run a game before.
I'd recommend playing a Wizard but offering to help him out on the side if he needs advice

>>51592322
That makes me sad

>>51592317
I'm completely fine with stupid play-it-up ninjas in my medieval Europe games and/or cowboys in my medieval Asia games honestly, as long as the player themselves is not obnoxious. That said I rarely play either of the above.

>>51592328
>let him learn
...so...it turns out that shadows are dangerous...
Roll new characters?
>what could go wrong?

>>51592343
I'm autistic enough that every character simply needs a logical backstory
That being said at this point my game has been on for years and it spans basically an entire world

>>51592328
The whole idea is that I do this in stealth mode, because I want him to do it on his own, but I also want to help out.

>>51592336
Level 1, 15 PB, pazio only.

>>51592355
Yes. And? Tell him out of character, don't secretly try to play Gandalf and ruin everyone's fun except your own. If you explain like a non-autist, he might even listen to you and understand why Shadows are awful.

>>51592320
Is that like...a mullet? The only place she has hair is the back of her head...

>>51592320
The rare times of scarcity of people playing and talking about them.

>>51592282
The last character I was playing before my current one had an Indo-Arabian background and the game basically took place in not!Vikingland.
His backstory was a rewritten tragedy from the Arabian Nights with the ending being his "conversion" to paladinhood, much of what he spoke about made references to Arabian and Persian legends, his personal code was based on the Five Pillars, he even converted another pc.
Amazingly enough, no one talked shit (to my face) or made a big deal that I was playing a not!Muslim paladin, and I constantly either flummoxed or impressed my devout Christian DM.
It was a good game.
>>51592304
If you have been playing so long, then you should know that a DM needs to fuck up and learn their chops. You should be ready to aid him, but not supplant him.

Hey do you think Pathfinder would be a good system for my KITSUNE TORTURE FRENZY PARTY game?

It's essentially the Trail of Tears, but Andrew Jackson is a party of adventurers and the Native Americans are Kitsune.

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>>51592433
Depends on how good you are at writing an actually riveting story instead of venting your hatred

>>51592367
Ah. Well, I'd suggest asking your GM if you could receive Insightful Strike a level early. If not, just live with only getting +0 or +1 to your Bodyguard Aid Another checks.

>>51592441
My aim is to teach you that those two aren't antithetical (except to Kitstunes -LOL-)

>>51592473
No, they're antithetical. You can't write an actually good story if all you're going to do is wank one side over and over, that's just the Party of Mary Sues setup.
Of course you can make the kitsune evil and make the quest to purge them but then that's not exactly Trail of Tears.

>Sorcerers learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.

Why is there a number on the spell slot table? They're cantrips, you can cast any of them at will.
So why then does that number vary from the known spells table for cantrips?

>>51592320
THAT'S NOT A KITSUNE YOU FUCKING RETARD! KITSUNE IN JAPANESE MYTHOLOGY THEY ARE MORE HUMAN LOOKING AND CUTE!

>>51592173
>implying being a spooky skeleton isnt better than being alive

I want paladins to go and stay go

speaking of cantrips where does the word come from anyway

>>51592490
This.
>>51592506
It's how many you know, and you must choose which ones you know.
It's future-proofing in case they make more cantrips.

>>51592490
>you can't write an actually good story
Senpai, Pathfinder is a *game*

It'll be like Hausu meets Bone Tomahawk meets Watership Down, peppered with a little Pan's Labyrinth and salted with the Last of the Mohicans. You'll love it.

>>51592506
Leftover from 3.5e

>>51592521
Think they're talking about the slots per day area which has a box for cantrips/orisons. There's a separate area for spells known.

>b-b-but i dont play golarion
secondaries pls go

>>51592535
Oh, an oversight. Well, I wonder how many others there are. Like how some Wizard School powers are based on wizard level and others on Caster Level.

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>>51592173
*grasps heart*

>>51592526
You can talk a big game, but the issue when you write with hate in your heart is that it leaks out, and you yourself can't see it often because your mind will excuse it as being "a part of the story".

>>51592526
It might be a game but the DM still needs to make a backstory anon
If your backstory amounts to a CoD tier backstory where the answer is just 'kill them all' that isn't a Trail of Tears, just a slaughterhouse. The Trail of Tears setup would be the "For God and Country" setup, where you do something because it's beneficial to your nation. You also have to make the "indians" somewhat sympathetic to actually affect the players so they feel for them, thus 'tears', if you do that then don't be surprised if they go full SJW and betray the script
tl;dr you can't make a story deeper than CoD if you're not going to treat both sides, or at least treat one side more fully than 'kill them'

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>>51592042
Were you Sohyon?

>>51592613
Yes.

>>51592588
Please, help me to understand and overcome the hate in my heart by joining me in KITSUNE TORTURE FRENZY PARTY. I should note here the name is intended to ape the violent exploitation films of the 70s/80s (Texas Chainsaw Massacre, I Spit on Your Grave, et al) who will form the inspiration for the idolatrous gods of the Kitsune warrior lodges.

>>51592589
The story quality of any given CoD game or character really depends on your dialectic.

>>51592640
>who
witch, silly me

>>51592042
Literally just make your character on F-List and roleplay there.

Seriously, I don't get why people are so hung up about this shit.

>>51592640
>The story quality of any given CoD game or character really depends on your dialectic.
Are you telling me that the generic Naruto fanfiction where OC Donut Steel character kills everyone and fucks all the bitches is good
Or the generic Harry Potter fanfiction with 60% of the story describing how fucking disgusting Ron is is good

>>51592660
You've gotta see this stuff in the wider context. I can promise you the fullest of vistas in KITSUNE TORTURE FRENZY PARTY.

>>51592640
>intended to ape the violent exploitation films of the 70s/80s
Why not make the game that, then?
Do not worry about making it high literary fashion, go full gonzo grindhouse with it, make the kitsunes outrageous to the nth degree Mad Max style War Boyz.
The "Trail of Tears" is actually a long chase scene where the party are being pursued by a kitsune warhost thru a wild magic desert via Eberron style magi-skimmers and tri-wheelers.
Fuck, I'd play that game.
DIE HISTORIC! SHINY AND CHROME UNTO VAHALLA!

>>51592678
I mean go for it if you think you can do it
Give us a greentext of how it goes

>>51592652
Of course I could but then it's not a pathfinder game? I'm not really too hung up about it, it's just fun to dramatize and empathize.

>>51592367
15 PB? Wizard is your only choice. MAD prevents you from taking over the GM's game with any other class.

>>51592634
Honestly, you should have see that as Ryu wasn't a healslut, that left Kimberly wide open on your flank, leaving you a generic big titty kitsune without any focus or gimmick. Next time, make sure to give yourself something the GM can focus on that's not shared by others, or some other easily rememberable catchphrase or trick!

>>51592694
Senpai did you not read anything I've posted about the game so far? I'm really sad and hateful about that, you've hurt me.

Bone Tomahawk should clue you into some of the exact stuff you just suggested, but also my mention of the exploitation *classics* was specific to inspiring some kitsune warrior societies. Y'know, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_military_societies??

>>51592699
Man cannot play with himself alone.

>>51592713
Why do you need a Pathfinder game to justify monstergirl smut?

>>51592757
Go for a secret third titty, that's always a winner.

>>51592506
Where are you seeing this, because in my book there is no 'spells cast' for 0th level spells in the sorcerer section.

Thoughts on my Paizo only Arcane Trickster

Tiefling (prehensile tail)
15 point buy,
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 18 WIS 8 CHA 8

Traits:
Clever Wordplay (Bluff)
Magical Knack

Rogue (Cutpurse), 1
Feat: Toughness
Wizard (Admixture, opposition schools Necromancy and Enchantment), 3
Feat: Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Arcane Trickster 2
Feat: Alertness
Sleepless Detective 1
Arcane Trickster 3-10

>>51592433
Put up a roll20 and I'd apply for it.

>>51592773
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer#TOC-Class-Skills
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer#TOC-Spells

whats the best way to die /pfg/?

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>>51592517
I'm not a paladin, just a concerned citizen. after all, liches are people to, and we don't need another insane lich doing stupid things because he forgot he doesn't actually breathe anymore and can't do more than bone his girlfriend.

No, polymorph doesn't help, because it doesn't change your type - you're still undead, which means you still don't breathe...or get erections (or get wet if your a female lich - like anyone can tell the difference).

>>51592762
>Senpai did you not read anything I've posted about the game so far?
Not a fucking thing.
What you did post means my idea not only works, but makes it far more neutral in approach to players rather than you flossing your hateboner in my face like I need to kiss it.

>>51592805
In your sleep

>>51592797
>Spells per Day
>1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th

>Spells Known
>0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th

??? There are no "spells per day" number on the spell slot table. You can cast infinite number of cantrips per day, as long as you have the time to do so.

>>51592805
I recommend Martin Heidegger and Michel de Montaigne as beginner's readings on this.

>>51592825
Oh shit, didn't see that. Thanks.

>>51592797
Yeah, still not seeing a section of 0th levels spell castings on there, only on the spells known list.

New to Pathfinder,

What are your favorite/the best Player Companions that offer useful material?

I've taken a look at the Alchemy Manual and Adventurer's Armory, and both seem interesting to me. My party could have used Allnight in our last session together (four out of five of us gained fatigued by force-marching to complete an objective, and nearly failed another primary objective due to the fatigue). The insight leaves in the Alch manual could prove to be quite useful, too.

>>51592805
With your enemy gasping his last breath before you do.

>>51592846
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

How exactly did you even come to the conclusion if that's what you were looking at?

>>51592805
Eaten alive by starving half-feral Kitsune children after you shot their fathers, outraged their mothers and burned their ancestral cherry orchards. That warm puddle of guts hanging to your knees is called "satisfaction"

>>51592852
Weapon Master's Handbook makes Fighter playable-ish.

In general though, don't buy anything. d20pfsrd has every game rule with the setting stripped away.

>>51592852
Weapon Master's, Armor Master's, and Dirty Tricks handbooks.

>>51592858
Well, I'm stupid, okay.

>>51592872

Sure, but if I can get something for 0.01, a physical copy might be a nice thing to have for easy reference.

>>51591197
>no stat to damage
>once per round as a standard action does not remotely begin to make up for two steps in damage dice. Even with full Armory of the Conqueror support because it has become its own specific action and lost compatibility with other abilities, it's bad, it's really fucking bad.

"on a pleb" is a lie, unless everything everyone faces that isn't specifically a boss fight is always a level 1 CR 1/2 entity.

>>51590974

Hey, completely new to PF and I need some help to understand this whole thing. I have a character concept but I can't get my head around character creation. Any veterans willing to help? I'm playing with an experienced-ish DM and he said we can use any extra content we want to make our character.

I kinda have in mind what I want (if you know 40k(of course you do)) it's a Techpriest - so probably some kind of Wizard unless there's a better class for a tinkerer-researcher long range support kind of character.

Also if someone would be so kind as to tell me if I just said something utterly retarded that would be appreciated too.

>>51592903

3.5 has an artificer class which is exactly that. So, what is the pathfinder equivalent/closest thing to artificer?

>>51592925
Nothing, because the class was retarded even when compared to wizards.

>>51592903
Look at the alchemist.
Makes potions, bombs, all kinds of doodads that buff themselves and others, or makes things dead.

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>>51592890
I'm glad to have been able to assist you. In future, when you come to a result that perplexes you, consider whether it may be faster to re-check the contradiction first.

However, if you don't mind a potential blow to your pride, asking for assistance from live helpers may provide faster assistance and save you the time, at the expense of feeling a bit silly. Nothing wrong with that either! Do whatever's most effective!

>>51592901
Did you crunch any numbers about that, especially including Vital Strike? I found that Slow-Action is by far one of the stronger option.

Also yes, that is literally the premise of the setting. Certain people are elevated the demigod status through birth, circumstance, or sheer determination. Literally any fight not with a fellow Champion is narrative-controlled, with players describing in what potentially horrifying ways their demigods are stomping mortals. This was all skimmed over in the line you're quoting, which leads me to believe you don't actually have any idea what you're talking about and have garbage reading comprehension.

>>51591411
Path of war CAN allow you to hyper-focus like you would have been FORCED to do without it in order to do well in combat (including mobility requirements)... But that's the fault of the base d20 system.

What it ALSO does is allow you to be competent in combat despite not being a full-caster, while STILL being able to use the rest of your build to contribute at things that aren't "hit it with big stick"; something the regular martials are dangerously prevented from doing in the base system.

>Psionics bursty huge nova
Oh look. DELIBERATE SPREADING OF MISINFORMATION YOU LYING SACK OF SHIT. Manifester Level = maximum PP expenditure. Augmentation costs PPs, while regular vancian magic autoscales damage/effect with your level. a fireball augmented to do 10d6 is literally now costing the same as a level 5.5 power (9pp would be level 5, 11 would be level 6), and it's harder to recover or bypass the limits on what you can do per day than it is for any vancian caster.

Some of the very worst balance at both ends of the scale is the core books; just wanting to GM pathfinder will require learning several convoluted messes depending on the classes, and the ... wide panoply of feats both "actively-a-trap-to-fuck-the-user" and "amazingly good".

... we can agree on the furry races though.

>>51592771
Why does anyone need pathfinder games to justify fantasy role play? It's fun.

>>51592757
She was a prankster and relentless tease looking to promote the carefree lifestyle of he Kitsune!

Also big breasts

>>51592903
>a tinkerer-researcher long range support kind of character.
Wizard, Arcanist or Alchemist is correct; you probably know that wizards throw spells at people and do other magic things with spells, an Arcanist does the same with some cool "make spells better" effects but is less tinkery.

Alchemist is weaker on spell type things, but has a whole load of tools such as throwing bombs at people and making new stuff up that works very well.

>>51593026

Does PF allow for hybrid classes?

I'm looking at the d20dpfrwhatever thing and Alchemist does indeed sound like a Magos, though crazy wizardry might add a little bit more flavor.

>>51592985
I CAN'T crunch the numbers on that. It's an illegal action.

The slow-firing weapon is its own standard action to use - same problem a rocket launcher in the tech book has - and is thus flat out incompatible with vital strike.

Not that +2 sizes will do fuck all for damage compared to multiplying your extra dice, strength-to-damage, enhancement bonus, collision enchant and the rest of it all by every attack you can make.

>>51592320

Friendly reminder that Kitsune, canonically, can breed with humans!

Tough, tall and blonde Ulfen Kitsune confirmed!

>>51592985
And on the mortals bit; I find that quite hard to believe. Even Exalted makes that same claim - and you're playing stuff that literally kicks gods around - and yet in 2nd edition a mortal with a maul can murder even a solar exalt in one, max two hits, if the solar does not use any active defensive charm to at least negate the attack.

Nevertheless, for a champion, multiple attacks and thus high RoF is the only real damage option, but it takes a very, very expensive gun to match the output of a bow.

>>51593062
I could have sworn I made the standard action -> attack action swap a few drafts ago. My mistake, anon. Your rage is fully justified, even if it's because I fucked up, not because of an intended function of the rules.

Could you tag anywhere you see the old wording? I see it in the Special Qualities Glossary and the Slow-Action category, and those will be changed in a minute.

>>51593058
Sometimes I wish people would actually spend some time actually reading the core rulebook first just so have the slightest of inklings on how the game works.

>>51593058
Teeeeeechnically you can have hybrid classes, but you lose a bunch of stuff and it's not really worth it.

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>>51592219
>It's people who show up to a western fantasy game with a kitsune ninja with a full Japanese name who uses Japanese honorifics for no real reason that really blast my ass.

>mfw Kingmaker campaign
>mfw half the party are Japanese characters with Japanese honorifics and Japanese weapons and armor
>mfw the other half aren't even from Brevoy
>mfw I'm the only character with some ties to the land

>>51593102
It's literally narrative anytime it's mortals vs. Champions. The Champion describes how he shrugs off mortal blows and whatnot while murdering scores. Rolling for damage never comes into play. I do know what you mean, though, Exalted was criminal about that.

And what do you think can be changed other than the standard action -> attack action swap to improve things?

By the way, costs are on the highish side because I'm using a different homebrew from someone else that seperates Character Advancement Points spent on the Big Six and consumables and gold spend on more mundane gear, so a gunslinger can have their magic stuff AND an expensive gun, while the rest of the party has gold on-hand for other things. Do you think they should be reduced anyways?

>>51593154
>It's literally narrative anytime it's mortals vs. Champions. The Champion describes how he shrugs off mortal blows and whatnot while murdering scores. Rolling for damage never comes into play. I do know what you mean, though, Exalted was criminal about that

I'm envisioning the way a character in For Honor would carve through an infantry wave, and it's just amusing me.

>>51593105
Actually I can't, but that's a browser issue on my side since this morning, will probably have to reinstall clean a bit later (lot of tabs open, some actually necessary, gotta do some work first).

1d10 +2 sizes is 3d8. a +5 collision firearm would be thus 3d8+10. Vital Strike at 6/11/16 BAB for x2/3/4 gives you
6d8+10= 37 @ min level 6
9d8+10= 50 @ min level 11
12d8+10 = 64 @ min level 16.

While you could add more, keep in mind that's already a +7 weapon being used by in the first case a level 6 character for that damage. It's pretty bad damage scaling, really bad in fact, so you need to compensate with class abilities which means the standard gun problem is not solved. Where this is most effective is prior to vital strike and whatnot, when a heavy rifle doing 3d8 will generally waste a level 1-2 commoner. HP growth on actual targets however vastly outpaces the damage growth of this thing, due to the standard problem of the d20 system and pathfinder.

Additionally the loss of touch-resolution drags expected damage back down further until you're using a minigun, but then that's not a breach-loader is it.

>>51593126
>this faggot again
Yes, go on about how a band of adventurers MUST be from the area when the original self made king Conan was from the barbaric north and literally choked the old king out on his throne before taking his crown for himself.
You are still a cocksmoker and twice the faggot of anyone in that game simply due the fact you think you are "better" because you wrote some shit in your backstory.

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My new character for Hell's Rebels game is a level 10 android gunslinger with Numerian tech, which I'm glad was able to fly for both the GM and the table since I fucking love the idea of playing a character decked out in sci-fi gear in a fantasy setting. I probably wouldn't have felt so awkward asking if it was okay if it wasn't for the fact that we're level 10 so all of the party members are pretty much powerhouses at this point (wizard, bard, oracle, cavalier).

I'm curious has anyone else had a mixture of this kinda stuff? I don't mean in stuff like Iron Gods where it's encouraged but in other games, whether it be on Golarion or someone else. I feel like it would be hard to pull off with the sci-fi character(s) being very easy to fall into special snowflake territory.

>>51593251

You sound upset, did I indirectly insult a character you made? I apologize!

Also,
>Still using the same example of a Northerner taking a Southern tyrant's throne when I'm talking about a Far Eastern character taking a Western throne

There's far more precedent in history of Frenchmen taking English thrones than the Chinese taking Finnish thrones?

Oh wait.

>>51593251
Why are you so upset anon

>>51593221
I see what you're saying. My numbers were crunched for the original +3 sizes, +3 Magnum which is still I think a bit much. The price multiplier for Magnum was added just before I posted, it used to be that a Magnum x3 Slow-Action rifle was 950gp for 19d6 or something ludicrous like that, before I added the multiplier and changed size increases to be dice steps, 1d10->2d6->2d8. I think I'll revert the latter, however, now that I've spent more time punching numbers.

>>51593322
>You sound upset, did I indirectly insult a character you made? I apologize!
No, I just remember the last time you came on here bitching and moaning because your history boner was offended.
It was pathetic then, and remains so now, so kill yourself swiftly for the sake of humanity.
>>51593328
I despise this guy for existing with his fucktarded mindset that a fantasy setting can't be fantastical.
My temper was already piqued, and then this enormous cocksmoking faggot shows up, and now I am completely over the edge.

>>51593361
Not him but 'fantastical' doesn't mean 'literally whatever I want', it should usually be at least somewhat reasonable.

>>51593383
It also doesn't mean "must follow historical precedent".

>>51593361

You sound incredibly ass-blasted at someone with a perfectly reasonable issue with the way things are done in a fantasy campaign.

If I recall, doesn't the story end with him winding up getting the majority of DM attention because he's actually got ties to the plot? Sounds like a good reason to make your character from a region!

>>51593251
He's a pedophile, judging from the reaction image he's using.

I would know.

>>51593408
It doesn't but it should still make sense yeah

>>51593410
link?

>>51593263
I used it in a Spelljammer campaign. Dut then again, the enmy was illithid biotech using monstrosities so people didn't care WHO the allies were as long as they brought the fight with them.

Darkspace was a fun addition to rolemaster.

>>51593409
>doesn't the story end with him winding up getting the majority of DM attention because he's actually got ties to the plot?
No, the story ended with him not actually interacting with the pc party at all and instead focusing his rp on npcs with the logic of "these are my countrymen", when apparently the people who fight and perhaps die next to you in battle are worth so much less.
>>51593430
And it does make sense, because there are plenty of fantasy stories of the traveling foreigner who becomes the savior of the people and then king, with Howard's Conan at the forefront of them. Shit, in Howard's last Conan story, he travels to China to kill a sorcerer king, and the people there beg him to stay and rule over them.
No, his issue was that the other players had "weeb" characters more than anything else, and he wore it on his sleeve, it influenced how he acted IC and he admitted as much.

>>51593408

Yeah, it should follow the setting's historical precedent.

The only people who consistently got that far Northeast were Ulfen and Taldan, who have long-since intermingled into the Rostlanders and Issians. There are the Kellids too, but they're concentrated around Mendev and the Worldwound.

The vast majority of Tien remain in the Land of the Linnorm Kings because they're a traditionally isolationist, xenophobic people. The odd ducks that get out of that mindset often find themselves heading to the Inner Sea or Varisia, *not* the vast expanse of International Clusterfuck that is the River Kingdoms of which they'd have to pass through Rapeland: Orc Edition first.

And then there's the matter of Keleshites or Garundi in Brevoy, which is equally unlikely considering a Garundi in fucking Cheliax (literally a hop and skip from Rahadoum) is seen as unusual (one of the evil iconic backstories), much less a Garundi who passed through Taldor, Andoran, Druma and all the other "fantastic places to live" so they can move to Brevoy.

>>51593478
>Shit, in Howard's last Conan story, he travels to China to kill a sorcerer king, and the people there beg him to stay and rule over them.
And you think that's realistic in any manner or form at all considering Conan never becomes sinicized? Fucking idiot

>>51593478
>Shit, in Howard's last Conan story, he travels to China to kill a sorcerer king, and the people there beg him to stay and rule over them.

Wasn't Howard a massive racist?

>>51593506
It was the 30s, everyone was a massive racist.

>>51593263
Is that supposed to be tali?

>>51593534

Can't be, her hips are too small, and she has too many fingers.

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>>51593514

>Using an example of racist pulp fiction to insist foreigners conquering native lands and ruling over them with the support of a gracious people is kosher

Next he's going to say the English conquest of India and the institution of the Raj was good!

>>51593534
Tali, from Mass Effect? Nope, just a Pathfinder android.

>>51593409
>>51593383
>>51593483
>>51593430
>White Samurais from England aren't realistic
>Black Varigian Guards aren't realistic
>Chinese courtiers in the presence of the Pope aren't realistic

Actually looking at the world and history rather than the sanitized taught-you-nothing-in-school version? Yeah, history's pretty weird and can account for anyone being anywhere. They might not be respected or recognized, but pretty much every ethnicity managed to get to different parts of the world.

>>51593435
Two words of warning.

Superglue. Penis.

>>51593574
No, what isn't realistic is that they became anyone important barring the most exceptional of circumstances, and what's even less realistic is that they're treated like everyone else both explicitly and implicitly

>>51593593

To be fair, there was a famous white Samurai in Japan who actually became a trusted advisor of the Shogun due to his connection with England, and he in fact became landed.

Same with Yasuke, Nobunaga's black Samurai (that said, Yasuke was supposedly as much taken on for Oda to flaunt his "fuck you, I'm pissing on your traditions" implications as he was for his skill.)

>>51593627
I know about those and I knew someone would drop those examples
Both of those were 1. exceptional cases and 2. not treated nomally both explicitly and implicitly.
Basically if you want to do it you best have a good reason
Or, you could play a game that's >just for fun, which sidesteps the whole problem.

>>51593574
>>51593593
>>51593627

It isn't unrealistic for an Adventurer to be a foreigner, what *is* unrealistic is to have a whole diversity rainbow squad of foreigners in the same party.

One Yasuke is good. One Yasuke, one Achmed, one Hayao and one Dominik in a campaign taking place in Brevoy is not good.

Keeps the foreign angle being fresh and exceptional, you know?

>>51593593
Fortunately, in the terms of Pathfinder, the pcs are expressly NOT common people, they are the "exceptional" you had mentioned in your post, and it is considered an unreasonable faux paux to treat pcs like shit unless there is an overarching underpinning to it, which doesn't exist in Kingmaker. In Kingmaker, you are pointedly there to work your way up, prove that you are worthy of the throne, then ascend to it either with the support of the people or by cunning.
>>51593647
>Both of those were 1. exceptional cases and 2. not treated nomally both explicitly and implicitly.
>which is pointed out in Kingmaker
You see, anon, if you could pull the cock out of your mouth long enough, you'd notice you defeated your own argument.
The pcs are not common folk, the design of the entire AP is to showcase how exceptional they are.

>>51592526
>It'll be like Hausu meets Bone Tomahawk meets Watership Down, peppered with a little Pan's Labyrinth and salted with the Last of the Mohicans.

And that's why it'll be terrible.

>>51593670
>your own argument
Huh? What is my argument? You're not talking to one person.

>they are the "exceptional"
No anon, you misunderstand. What is required is not the character to be special, that just helps a lot. What is required is for the CIRCUMSTANCES to be exceptional.

>to treat like shit
No anon, 'treated like everyone else' has nothing to do with the quality of their treatment, simply the attitude, expectations, and cultural gap between them.

>>51593670
>and it is considered an unreasonable faux paux to treat pcs like shit unless there is an overarching underpinning to it, which doesn't exist in Kingmaker.

Actually, being treated like shit is *exactly* the point of Kingmaker.

Or are you going to tell me the penalty to Diplomacy you get for being a Bastard is only there because you have a bastard-born stutter?

>>51593627
>>51593593
>>51593574

There were also cases of cowboys going full native, white men joining jungle tribes, and Chinese martial artists moving to England and America too.

>>51593668
Nonsense.

That's the fucking iconic adventuring party, you fucking idiot. That's been used in fantasy even before Tolkien was alive.

>>51593715
It has fuckall to do with ethnicity what the fuck is with Americans and making everything about race
It's about CULTURE
The white people joining jungle tribes act like part of the jungle tribe
The nigger samurai acted like a samurai
The cowboys learned to act like natives
Why does everything need to be about the color of your skin instead of the historically much-more-important cultural and religious aspects of your character?

>>51593715

Wouldn't their foreign birth and upbringing be a major facet of the character's personality and characterization?

Like, in many of these cases you just fall into the issue brought up here >>51593668, where *everyone* is a foreigner and the cultural diversity is normalized and left undiscussed, rather than explored.

>>51593341
The big thing to remember is that until you get into ludicrous effective weapon sizes, every single attack multiplies more than weapon dice. Vital strike does not.

So what you basically have in the above example is, say, at 16th:

3d8x4 + (all bonuses and extra dice)x1
Versus, for a normal attacker:
(1d10+all bonuses and extra dice)x # of attacks

And as an extra insult to VS: number of attacks ends to gain +1 starting at level 5-6 from haste, and another +1 due to rapid-shot.

But even when it's not...
Even a weapon that doesn't get to add a stat to damage is still gaining #hits multiplier to its enhancement bonus and things like deadly aim, and the extra dice. That stuff easily equals or surpasses what vital strike offers... and that's before anybody optimizes anything. Toss in stat to damage like on a bow, and the difference scales up even faster.

At its worse the difference is as such by 20th:

>16d8+5(Enh)+5(Collision)+12(DeadlyAim)+2(misc like point-blank)+2d6 elementals = 16d8+24+2d6 (42~164 avg 103)
1 shot averaging 103

vs

2d6+5(Enh)+5(Collision)+12(DeadlyAim)+2(Misc like point-blank)+2d6 elementals = 2d6+24+2d6 (28~48 avg 38)
7 shots each averaging 38: if only 3/7 hit (and the first four are full BAB) that's 114, already ahead. 4/7 hits and 3/7 misses already puts us at 152; nearly 50% more damage already.

>>51593749
...are you really that stupid?

>>51593774

He's actually 100% correct, anon.

Back in the day, culture and religion was significantly more important than your skin color - which often suggested what your culture and religion was, but to anyone who spent some time talking to you would swiftly realize the error of their assumptions.

An assimilated Tien "native" from Brevoy would be far easier to stomach than some pasty-skinned twat fresh out of the Jade Quarter with his O-Yoroi armor and a fancy katana.

>>51593767
On the other hand, if you can afford to do both, then there isn't a reason not to.

>>51593774
>an arab knight in 1200 Europe
Sensible if uncommon
>a arab sunni haremlord knight who uses arabic armor and speaks mostly arabian and coptic who doesn't know who half the folk Saints are and eats arabic food nobody has seen before

>>51593774
Anon I guarentee you the Pope would rather speak to a black dude with faith in the Lord our Savior than with an Italian who was a pagan

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Okay, so since we're getting close to autosage I'm calling it now. I'm making a new thread at page 8. If someone makes a thread before then (particularly if it's obvious bait/kitsune lewdfaggotry) just ignore it.

>>51593752
There is a difference between people being from different cultures, and being from different cultures being used as a point against the party/players.
I played a game where everyone, for different reasons, had traveled to a land far off. We all had different backgrounds and mores, and it was contentious at times, but it wasn't used as a cudgel against us, nor did the DM use it to spite us like >>51593805 suggests because that rarely makes the game better and the culture we were in had accepted that travelers come and go, often bringing goods and skills not commonly found.
>>51593824
Hyperbole rarely makes for good arguments, anon, unless you are on the internet.
>>51593841
The pope had no problems speaking to samurai from a foreign land he had scarcely heard of.

>>51593767
I'm going to go back through my notes and check my numbers, because I got a different result, and must have been doing something wrong, since this math checks out.

So what would you suggest? I'm loathe to increase damage die too much further to hopefully maybe avoid Slow-Action weapons being the meta from 1-5 then swapped out in favor of Automatic guns. But that's where it stands now, so making them a viable mid-game option might be an improvement.

What would you think about making Slow-Action weapons target touch instead? Slow-Action weapons were actually initially proposed because they're generally presented as more heroic than automatic weapons, so the world can be fudged to permit such a thing. It wouldn't balance damage in a general fight, but it might make it keep up over a long run, but the effects of such a rule would be nearly impossible to meaningfully calculate. "Did the extra 30 damage from a hit that would have otherwise missed actually make a difference?" etc etc.

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>>51593849
watch him make 100000 threads just to spite you

>>51593857
>Hyperbole rarely makes for good arguments, anon, unless you are on the internet.
You get the idea anon. The skin color matters far less than their culture and religion.

>>51593841

Hell, wasn't Prester John supposed to be the ruler of a black/colored kingdom of Christians?

I wonder how Prester John was regarded by Europeans...

>>51593871
I hope he does, maybe he'll get banned finally.

>>51593875
The origin of Prester John is honestly really unclear, as was whatever it was supposed to be referring to
I think the idea was more or less that people heard about the Mongols or some similar horde fighting the Muslims and simply pushing their shit in and thought that since it was pushing in the shit of Muslims it must be Christians
John's kingdom was supposed to be absolutely massive and absolutely overpowering, basically a Christian equivalent of China or something (even though info on China was scarce) and the idea was that if they attacked the Muslims then John would surely help them
Hint: he never showed up.

>>51593322
What about Genghis in Europe?

>>51593857
>The pope had no problems speaking to samurai from a foreign land he had scarcely heard of.

Was the Pope willing to give that Samurai land and titles in Europe, allowing him to freely practice his religion and cultural views?

>>51593902
Genghis Khan never got to Europe you pop-history spewing faggot

>>51593902
>What about Genghis in Europe?

But anon, I already mentioned the Finns!

Seriously though, Muscovy and the Russian kingdoms weren't exactly happy with their subjugation under the Golden Horde, and I do recall they were quite fervent in their expunging of the Steppe people from their lands following the collapse of the Mongolian Empire.

>>51593900

God dammit anon, you're making me want to make Prester John's Kingdom in Crusader Kings 2 now. Or Europa Universalis IV, either or.

Probably Europa Universalis IV, now that I think about it. Western tech in China sounds quite lovely.

>>51593871
>The skin color matters far less than their culture and religion.
And the culture/religion only comes into play if the GM decides to push it as a way to punish players for "not playing his game right".
In the real world, being from a different land didn't have people spitting on you in the street, and despite the faggot's blustering, he has offered no proof that the players in his game didn't try to harmonize themselves to the land and work with the people precisely because he was too busy shitting on them for being "Weeb".
>>51593909
No one knows, only a single delegation made it over before the Date clan was brought low.
>>51593932
That applies to most people tho. Look at what the Han Chinese did to the Manchu's when they lost power.

>>51593953
>he has offered no proof that the players in his game didn't try to harmonize themselves to the land and work with the people precisely because he was too busy shitting on them for being "Weeb".

Considering the player explicitly told us he *tried* to integrate with the party, but gradually drifted into mild neglect, I get the feeling the other players never tried to harmonize with Brevoy values or traditions.

The point of a power fantasy is to start small and then become greater than you are
Not start high and get a bit higher

>>51593922
Alright, Genghis managed to get as far as Asiatic Russia. But Kublai Khan did expand to Eastern Europe.

>>51593953
>And the culture/religion only comes into play if the GM decides to push it as a way to punish players for "not playing his game right".
No anon, the GM can create cultural friction in a more subtle manner
>you do things one way or attempt to shake hands
>the culture you are in actually interprets shaking hands as something else entirely
>you say something but because of poor communication due to language gaps the King doesn't quite get it and hears something similar but not exactly the same
>the locals are frightened by the camel you brought in because they've literally never seen one
>friction between interpretations of 'honor' or 'loyalty'
There's so much shit you can do to make cultural mismatches actually interesting

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>>51593997
>friction between interpretations of 'honor' or 'loyalty'

Fuckin' THIS.

One of the coolest aspects of The Last Samurai was how Captain Algren interacted with and interpreted the society he came to love, and oftentimes Japanese views on honor and defeat clashed with his own (such as the discussion of Custer and the famous fight in the rain scene.)

Someone who makes a foreigner - particularly from somewhere as exotic as Tian Xia and Minkai - and tries not to show how that foreignness interacts with local traditions is incredibly shitty behavior, especially if the DM tries to "bait the hook" and offer situations where these clashes might come into play.

>>51593997
>friction between interpretations of 'honor' or 'loyalty'
This
Even something as simple as "I must save the Lord even against his wishes" vs. "I must obey my Lord even if he wishes me to abandon him" can be a huge deal

I don't really think cranky Brevic guy is being unreasonable at all.

If I run an aquatic game in set a mermaid kingdom, I'm lucky if I get one mermaid or aquatic elf. If I run a game in Katapesh based on 1001 Nights, I'm lucky if I get a single Katapeshi native. If I run a magical school game, you can bet I'll have some dickhead show up with a ninja that doesn't speak common. Players have a tendency to actively subvert the setting, the GMs initial pitch, anything just to be superficially special. It usually just makes the GM's job harder to include everyone.

How does one get an intelligent undead to feel the pleasures of life again?

>>51594166
Kill it, use true resurrection and let it be alive again.

>>51594166
I wonder if Wish could make it so a lich was fleshy and had a dick and could actually eat again

>>51594177
If it is willing, you don't have to kill it - you can use true ressurection on undead who are willing.

>>51594187
Eat no, fleshy yes. The dick would be there, but it would be useless. It's still a dead thing, because the type hasn't changed..

Unless you use wish to replicate true resurrection of course.

>>51594113
>>51594079
Ironically, when they do use those alien social mores, most GMs shit on them intentionally.