Previous Thread >>45201584
What are your favourite social groups? Covenants, Compacts, Orders, Courts, Tribes, and so on. Do any of you use some of the "lesser" groups, like the Brides of Dracula or the Dawn/Dusk Courts?
I know Chris has probably got ideas for Eaters of the Dead, and at least one person has kicked around using the Changeling Court Creation ahead of time, but has anyone else got a social group to share?
I generally don't use any of the pre-published cults. But as a rule, I end up making sub-factions of my own, that fit the campaign.
For instance, the Brotherhood of the Lance is a Lancea et Sanctum faction. Basically Christian vampire Daesh. With the trappings of a knightly order.
Are there any good pre-written Mage: the Ascension chronicles out there? I have some ideas for adventures, but I don't know if I have the right sense of scale.
Also, what's your favorite Tradition/Convention? I'd have to go with Order of Hermes and the $yndicate.
Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of pre-written adventures for MtAsc, and the ones that are either not for your edition, or not very good. White Wolf's never been as big on the published adventure concept despite the SAS system's brief existance. I hear the Loom of Fate is pretty good, but that's an adventure for 1e Mage, which is VERY different from the rest of the editions. Apparently GURPS: Mage the Ascension has a pre-written adventure you can use, but I've never read it.
Hey /cofd/, here's a new version of the Coil homebrew I posted in the previous thread.
I went back to the drawing board based on the suggestions people gave me in the last thread, and looked over the existing Coils (and the proposed ones from Secrets of the Covenants) a little more closely while I did so. So hopefully the power level of these Coils are a bit more... appropriate.
Thoughts? Suggestions? I threw in a couple WIP Scales as well.
Well, you're not losing it, just kind of... setting it aside temporarily. But yea, I was wondering if I shouldn't at least include the Fire bane as one you can't "swap"
Please do - your criticism helped a lot. This is the first time I've worked on Requiem homebrew, so my sense of what's "properly balanced' isn't all that great...
How about temporarily switching a bane the dragon has acquired with a ghosts ban?
Also for the Ghost Rank be harder to raise, Werewolves have to spend at least 57 exp to have Rank 5. So how about they start with Rank 1 and gain 1 rank per 2 blood potency they have. That way at blood potency 8 they are rank 5 and have spent a comparable amount of exp.
They don't loss it thay can weaken it by having blush of life on. But even then this makes that nearly pointless, sense the coil thst lessens fire damage makes it lethal damage. While this one makes it no longer a bane so that mundane fire will deal bashing damage.
>Woe that last scale is to far a vampire can never lose the base banes. Such as fire or the clan bans. Any other one is fair game but the greater curses can't be lost.
Losing the greater curses is the entire point of having the Coils of the Dragon in the first place.
Well, the reason I set Rank equal to Blood Potency is because as far as I can tell from the 2e rules, having an Honorary Rank doesn't have that big of an effect when applied to ghosts - they aren't getting Agg damage against lower-ranked ghosts the way Werewolves do against lower-ranked Spirits. All a higher Rank gets them are any "social" considerations they would get from other ghosts who read them as having a higher rank, plus more Numina using the Scales (if I'm wrong about this, correct me).
If that's all they're getting out of it, it seems kind of... not that useful to only be Rank 5 at 8 BP (which is difficult to get, and more difficult to maintain). I also wanted them to be able to kind of... "fake" power in the Underworld - they can have a very high Honorary Rank, but a BP 7 vampire is NOT as strong as a Rank 7 Ghost, any way you go about it.
Pardon me, I was wondering if someone here could help me out, I've been trying to find some resources for the LARP stuff(long story short, we got a new story teller that prefers those rules over the tabletop ones), I was wondering if anyone here could help me out with finding all the crafting and custom-item sorta things you can make in the game(given appropriate backgrounds, merits, skills, etc. etc).
tl;dr version: Does anyone know where I can find the full item list for World of Darkness LARP rules?
They could. You just need to be enlightened.
Are you enlightened yet, brother?
>But... any cunt CAN'T do it.
>You need to Awaken first, and the Watchtowers don't take anybody and everybody.
Awakened magic is just one very tiny type of magic in the CofD, although likely the most powerful wielded by humans.
Any cunt can probably cast a myriad of Fallen magic. It'll almost certainly kill them or far, far worse, but they can do it.
Yes but no coil actually removes them.
Mystery of the Ascendant only temporary lowers the punishment of sunlight to a manageable level.
Mystery of the Wyrm allow them to direct the beast but not control it in its entirety.
Mystery of the Voivode allows better control but you still can loss humanity from that.
Fully rejecting the banes are not in the reach of Ordo Dracul yet.
Actually they do those rule for aggravated damage are for all ephemeral creatures not just spirits. You could give the vampire influence (ghost) if you feel that the amount blood potency 8 is to high of a cost. That way they feel more like the masters of the dead.
Okay, in depth. I'm tempted to just give this a try myself, but that'd add to my "pretentious" reputation, so I'll stick with suggestions.
● Keep in mind that mechanically the Unseen Senses Merit is you get the Spooked Condition *once per chapter* and can pinpoint where the source of the prickling is coming from.
● Frankly, just let them sense ghosts, anchors, fetters, low places, and other things related to Death. Hell, make up a handful of questions that the Dragon can ask about them once per chapter. "What is the source of this feeling? What is the object's connection with death? How can I use this object?" Have it not require vitae or anything, just a turn or two of concentration.
● Draught of the Qiq-ol-Mal is a bit complicated. Let the vampire interact with ghosts. Don't bother with the additional wordcount. You also shouldn't allow ghost-gained vitae to count as Kindred Vitae; that's what the Unnatural Affinity merit does, and it already calls out that if you can bite it, you can drink it.
● The Diablerie stuff is unnecessary. Either make this whole bullet pointed section a Scale (without the Tainted bit) or leave it unsaid. I feel like most of it is stuff you can already do anyway, but again, I need to read BoD again. Raising Ghosts up to sentience is actually neat, though. You might also want to have the Vampire count as an Anchor, which allows ghosts to interact with them and provides all those Anchor benefits. Have it so that the Dragon can turn that off, though. No cost to do so.
● Ectoplasmic Infusion feels like a scale, not a three dot Coil.
● I already suggested being an Anchor at level 2 :V
● By around 3, they should really be able to change their very nature more. Here's where you should allow them to open Avernian or Graveyard Gates, and determine how they count for the Old Laws (although that could also work as a scale).
● Seeds of Persephone should be the third dot. Don't give the vampire Rank equal to their BP, that's obscene. >>45234530 is wrong. the corebook even says that Geists (will) get Effective Rank. Honestly, I'd say Effective Rank equal to their TOTAL Coils, using a chart like the Werewolf one (0-3, 4-7, 8-12, 13-18, 19+).
● Anchor Simulacrum could use a better name. It's not even a Simulacrum. I don't think it should be "a box" either. Other than that, not bad, but it should require some of the things that make the Dragon an anchor, whichever level you put that at.
● Corpus Ward is good. Like the idea. Boring name.
● Numinous Vitae (has a boring name) and should probably use a system similar to Fetters in Geist; that is, a relevant Attribute and skill. Also, it should only last a certain amount of time. Although I'm not entirely sure about this one at all, because it's basically Graft The Unholy Flesh. Actually, it's literally a weaker version that only works for Ghosts.
● Bane Swap is a neat concept, but I don't know if it works. I won't say that they can't ever get rid of their Bane (Humanity 7 vampires who never fall don't have one, and Ziva allows them to get rid of it entirely for a while) but it's... I don't know if it's all that great. You could just switch your Bane with something weaker. Feels too cheaty, but not in the right way.
Actually, the current draft of Secrets of the Covenants has the capstone for Coil of Ziva turn the Kindred fully human for 11-Blood Potency hour. It's not really that great, and I hate how a lot of the Coils end up being "murder five people and you can be a better vampire for like ten minutes".
>I'm tempted to just give this a try myself, but that'd add to my "pretentious" reputation
That's not pretentious, that's just a dick move without the consent of the original designer. You've already got plenty of stuff to do anyways.
Yeah, but this wouldn't take that long and I'm getting bored with writing this Werewolf cheat sheet. There's a fucking ton of shit Werewolf players need to know just to woof woof. It's already 14 pages and I'm being as flippant and brief as I can. The Tracking section was "you can track with a Wits + Survival or Streetwise roll, but I'm lazy so you don't need to know much more than that"
Where in the corebook does it give the "higher rank does Agg damage" rule? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I've just been going through the 2e core and don't see any mention of it there. Or is this another thing that's clarified in Werewolf or something and was just left out of the 2e core?
Yes thats true that the ziva makes you human for a while but thats regression your weaker for it at least temporarily. Granted there are a lot of great benefits for being human its still steeping downwards not up. Hence it being heretical.
Where are you even looking?
Honestly, it being heretical feels like forced drama. There's no reason Dragons would go "ew, kill it!" because someone has different priorities. I could see people looking down on them, but not freaking out and murdering them.
The Lilian Heresy is more of a Heresy.
I can completely see why though the Coil go counter of the entire beliefs of the covenant. Ziva wants to become human once again while the covenant is all about becoming more then a vampire, not less then it is now.
But you do have a point the Coil does not harm the covenant other then to weed out those who want nothing more then to weak again.
That's only referencing a rule, not actually spelling out a rule itself...
NOW I see it. Of course it's buried at the bottom of a section.
Alright, I get it, I'll change it to rank equal to BP/2 or something similar. I do like>>45234693
's suggestion of giving them Influence (ghosts) equal to rank.
Back to the drawing board...
Actually, it's worth noting that Ghost Banes and Vampire Banes are different. Ghost ones are actually much worse. If you do want to Bane Swap, that's worth keeping in mind. Ghost Banes are actually worse than Kindred ones in some ways, since it does Agg.
It goes counter, sure, but "Heretical" shouldn't really be a thing within the Ordo Dracul. Their ENTIRE PURPOSE is to be Heretical.
"If you have Honourary Rank, you deal Aggravated damage to things of lower rank". That's a rule.
Also, Influence (Ghosts) would not work. That would allow you to create Ghosts eventually. Mass Create, even.
Rank equal to BP means that a Blood Potency 10 Vampire is literally a deity of the Underworld. Use Coils as Honourary Rank. Coils from all Mysteries. Use rules similar to ones that already exist before creating new ones. You really don't need to worry about super high ranking Dragons in the first place.
I feel like that shouldn't really be limited by time. Maybe allow them to enter Twilight as a Ghost? As a scale it should require them to bathe in ectoplasm and vitae, mixed with oils and alchemy
A Mage of high Wisdom will agree that magic is possible to anyone, but what he defines as magic and what you define is very different.
Magic is *everywhere*, in everything. The Lie tells you that Magic isnt real, maybe at best only the privileged can attain it.
But it's there, when your love feels like she's right there in your dependent, even when she's hundred of miles away; when you honor a promise that works against you; when you break your wrists, and his ribs, keeping a father of two alive, even when his heart wanted to stop.
Magic is in Challenge, is in Word, is in Humanity. Magic is everywhere, and the Lie keeps you from realizing it.
(A certain way of looking at it, although limited)
Oh, I meant shifting into Twilight. But that's useful as well. Twilight Projection but as a ghost (since when Projected, you can't interact with ghosts or spirits or angels or strix or anything else project in Twilight)
To be fair entering in twilight you would only be able to see and interact with ghost anyways. Ephemeral beings live on different phases. Much like AM & FM Radios.
But yay popping in and out of twilight would be cool as fuck.
Quick quote from the first paragraph in CofD on manfastation and possession.
"Instead of bodies formed of flesh and bone, ephemeral beings are made up of a sort of spiritual matter called ephemera, which comes in several varieties. These substances are both invisible and intangible to anything not comprised of the same sort of ephemera — ghosts can see and touch one another, but are invisible to most living people and don’t interact with solid objects or even other ephemeral beings that aren’t ghosts. Spirits happily float through walls and pass through ghosts without even noticing them, but are incapable of interacting with people without help."
Nah. You don't have to have another supernatural merit to be a sleepwalker - there's a merit spoiler for people whose only special thing is that they're sleepwalkers, so becoming a sleepwalker off Unseen Sense shouldn't disqualify you for Unseen Sense any more than it disqualifies you for itself.
To Be a sleepwalker you need any inborn supernatural ability or merit. So while being cursed or possessed by a spirit would not count you as a sleepwalker. Having an instinctual knowledge or pings of the supernatural does count.
Well actually the human that is possessed goes in a coma like state and has no knowledge of the time possessed. The spirit/ghost/angel is in charge of the body at the time and well there not even human. So the human is still not a sleepwalker.
So, I'm considering running a Hunter game for my group in the near future that will probably be largely in a Monster of the Week format. Any ideas for stuff that isn't "That one Supernatural episode" or "Yet another goddamn vampire"?
I can share what few ideas I have at the moment if needed.
Look at some less exploited mythologies like Chilean or Thai or Turkic. You'll still hit a few "yet another goddamn vampire"s but even then you're more likely to ping something that is weird *enough* that it still works.
Do you have the location planed yet? That could help on whst you could do.
Such as is it like Scooby Do mystery inc. Where they stay a one location most of the time or more like early supernatural wondering the country in a car looking for the monsters?
>Do you have the location planed yet?
Not at the moment, no. I may have them at least wandering around in a decent-sized area rather than just keeping it confined to a city or two.
I already considered "force-feed steak to vegetarians to sacrifice their lifestyle", but I'm looking for something ideally not human. My Integrity is taking a serious beating atm
Here's my CofD homebrew for people wanting to play as fantasy races without making entire splats for them. To be honest its just what Shadowrun does, though they phrase it differently...
>Any ideas for stuff that isn't "That one Supernatural episode"
The problem with Supernatural is that most episodes are just "vengeful spirits" or demons.
Also, go with >>45237663 but also strange shit from other countries. I don't really think I've seen anything but American Gods really go into detail about it, but I like the idea of America as this place where the monsters have immigrated as well. Penanggal follow the Malaysians in search of better hunting grounds only to compete with Loup-Garou and others.
You can also look through the Night Horrors books.
>1) Non Human Species reduce their 11/7/4 Skills to 9/5/3 on Creation and only receive 2 specialties.
I already vehemently dislike this. Change the layouts (12/6/4 or 9/8/5) but don't shortchange people.
>3) For every point spent after +2 they must reduce the maximum capacity of another attribute by -1 (See Example below)
This also doesn't really feel necessary.
You get into this situation where social and biological traits are treated as being equivalent.
I'd suggest handling the races a bit... more flexibly. Although one way to handle it would be to raise default maximums and minimums. An Elf would be able to increase it's Dexterity to 6 and it's Strength to 4 naturally, but still start at 1 in each. I really dislike the D&D method of race creation.
>but also strange shit from other countries
That's literally what Chris suggested. I meant to list more that weren't vampires, but I blanked on it. Chupacabra, Tengu, Jenny Greenteeth, Wendigo, Basilisk, Barghest, Kelpie, Selkie, Kumiho/Kitsune, Zashikiwarashi, Jersey Devil, Swampman, Goatman... Heck, even aliens.
I've always wanted to do a game of Hunter that plays out like Supernatural. Traveling around the country hunting monsters.
Check it again, if an unusally slow elf (which is what 1 dot represents) has a racial dex bonus of +1 the minimum amount of dice he will always roll is 2 (which would be the average humans).
The 9/5/3 is something I got from Innocents, its the teenage skill level and I did it for balance and to give people a reason to be human.
I'm saying I don't like that. I don't like the notion that all members of X race are inherently better at Y. It gets into "my Dwarf raised on a boat knows how to find his way underground" territory.
Making it worse to be a different race also isn't very good. Although the other races still come out ahead in terms of XP expenditure.
Honestly, I feel like focusing only on the Attributes is not a good way to do it. I don't really like it, but I feel like the stuff in Mirrors Infinite Macabre is on the right track.
I mean a penalty to the wielder's melee attacks. Shields used to levy a 2 die penalty to melee attacks made while using one.
The old penalty was horrendous but now there's no penalty at all which seems a bit op.
Personally I love Ordo Dracul. Thay are occult mad scientist men of mystery. Hell I know would not have liked vampires nearly as much as I do if they were not a thing.
I actually do use some of the lesser groups for Brides of Dracula I have them as messenger sub group for Ordo Dracul.
Mages are... A difficult prospect.
They aren't created, or born, they just... Happen.
I too am struggling to decide what a good Mage population for my city would be. It's even worse, because the Free Council doesn't exist yet, and the local Consilium is paranoid about the Seers, such that they have a policy of banishing all Nameless from the city.
Truenthey just happen but im not talking about in a single city. That part is simple, most cause mages go where the mysteries are. It literally as many as you would need. No what I mean is what percent of the human population become mages?
I once threw a Gashadokuro at my players when they were exploring a marsh. It caught them completely off-guard. The "hardened veteran" lost his shit and hid under a dead tree while the others engaged it.
What I'm trying to say is don't limit yourself to stuff that's "creepy". Something that's just plain old WEIRD can unsettle players just as much, if not moreso.
>Give players a few vials of vampire blood, looted from mutated bandit ghouls
"Oooh, cool. Let's hang on to this physical manifestation of disease and corruption. It might come in handy."
>Give players a silver ring with an intricate gemstone eyeball, found in an otherwise perfectly normal crypt
"Aw fuck, dude, that thing's hella cursed. It's gonna get us all killed. Melt it down and douse it with holy water ASAP."
For Horrors the difference is really academic. They're not player characters and most of them won't really have merits so much as "a few abilities and traits".
Keep in mind that the original Dread Powers and even the ones from Mortal Remains WERE Merits.
>The Gashadokuro are giant skeletons that are fifteen times taller than an average person, said to be created from the amassed bones of people who died of starvation. These Yōkai roam after midnight, grabbing lone travelers and biting off their heads to drink their spraying blood. There is a tell sign as the victim would hear the sound of loud ringing in the ear. The Gashadokuro are said to possess the powers of invisibility and indestructibility; though Shinto charms are said to ward them off.
Jesus fuck why. No wonder he lost his shit.
Also that second one doesn't work if your players are Aegis or something similar.
Exactly if the storyteller has somthing in mind that fine, but it helps to have examples. Also if he goes over the top with the stuff from the alien section. Well whats stopping him doing the samething without it?
You know, one thing that really disappoints me that Chronicles of Darkness doesn't have is a lot of miscellaneous rules that keep getting reprinted because they can only assume you own the corebook.
Aura colours, swarm rules, that kind of thing.
If we use only 2E stuff that extremely limits what we get to work with. We got vampire, werewolf, demon, & beast. Only demon has more then one book out, so I thinknthe door to 1E should stay open at least little longer.
Threads pretty slow right now. /CofD/ filename dump? Filename dump.
I think 2e is moving away from "here is a list of colours that your GM will tell you that you see, then you can go look them up". I don't think Demon even uses a list of colours. But I was just looking over the Alien rules and saw the Aura Sight list and thought about how it was reprinted over and over, and also the swarm rules.
There are a lot of fringe rules. I wish they'd mentioned that sometimes not having a specialty can result in a penalty, like getting on a Motorcycle with no specialty is a -4 penalty in Armoury.
I mean... we ARE talking...
But I never say no to WoD Filenames.
Meeting up with friends on the Twilight Network
I wonder how many Sin-eaters use that Twilight Network app to get laid?
That's a much more succinct filename. Changing it.
Hence why I should change it to Archmaster. They're pretty much gods of life.
My favourite, because I made it
I feel like they'd be The Union.
More than you'd like, but less than you'd expect. I hear that drawing a shovel on a tombstone means hit me up, and get laid to rest.
That image terrifies me. Also, you mean less than I'd like.
Shit, that was a good laugh. I had to clean the spit off my screen.
I meant what I said.
You know I can live with that.
Then we are at peace.
Someone was talking about the host last game, right?
We is cool
That's not far off.
Gentry at your door you can hear him call out to you...
For some reason trying to upload this tells me it has an embedded file
What were you gonna name it?
When a player becomes the princess.
"Guardians of the Veil see what you did"
Some things are better unknown.
>number of times anon calculated range in their games: 0
>number of times anon will use range bands in their games: 0
You never used the previous system, why would you use this one?
I have no idea what the context is, but I love that Shaggy is beating up bikers. Just goes to show that you can't spend fifty years fighting ghosts without all of that experience going somewhere.
Old Scooby Doo was a road trip with a monster of the week.
Early supernatural was a road trip with a monster of the week.
Do you see the problem here? Why give the same option twice.
That's my point. Why would you say
>Such as is it like Scooby Do mystery inc. Where they stay a one location most of the time or more like early supernatural wondering the country in a car looking for the monsters?
When you could say
>Such as is it like Scooby Do mystery inc. Where they stay a one location most of the time or more like original Scooby Doo wondering the country in a car looking for the monsters?
Mage 2e question-
Now that Prime's purview encompasses Truths with a capital "T,"can the Arcanum be used to detect if someone is lying in a manner similar to Mind?
If so, would it be am Unveiling spell?
Mentioned this last thread.
The new rules for shields, from Hurtlocker, seem a little op. They no longer penalize melee attacks. In fact the only drawbacks I can see are that they take up a hand.
Skinchangers are said to take the shape of their soul animal.
Would a Skinchanger who had his soul replaced with someone else have to get a new animal form?
Would soeone infused with a Soulchanger's soul be able to use their shapeshiftig powers
Didn't think about that. They do in fact have an initiative penalty. -2 for a small one and -4 for a large one. That's fair I suppose.
I think this is the first time they've discussed shields in 2e. In Armory they gave you a 2 die penalty to all melee attacks while holding one.
They do have an initiative penalty it a -2 or -4 depending on the shield in question.
They are in every 2E book there just not in the armor section. They are in the melee weapons section.
Looks like it's the same stats as the corebook.
Bigger than a person. Think like six or seven feet tall and three feet wide. Bigger than this.
My group might be running Hunter the Vigil, and I've heard that I'd also need Mortal Remains and the CofD core. As a quick reference, what rules were updated or added from those that override the rules in HtV 1e?
You should basically just use CofD core for character creation, then give them an additional specialty in one of their chosen profession's asset skills.
Mortal Remains updates the rules for Risking Willpower and Tactical Beats/XP, as well as adding some new Dread Powers, but you can just as well stick to the CofD core book for the Dread Powers.
Oh, so this is what the bit in the Cheiron write up is referencing.
I'll do you one better than >>45254585 and share this with you https://a.uguu.se/pmchse_MortalRemainsRulesUpdate.pdf
>Jesus fuck why. No wonder he lost his shit.
To be fair, I left out the invisible, indestructible, and "lone travelers" bits. It was basically just a giant skeleton that made weird noises.
>Also that second one doesn't work if your players are Aegis or something similar.
...That's actually a good point. My players almost always go for Union, Long Night, or Net0 type characters. I imagine groups like Ashwood or VALKYRIE would draw the kind of players whom that trick wouldn't work on.
Depends on the spell.
You can protect yourself against an arcanum, against whatever effect the damaging spell happens to use, probably against supernatural effects in general with Prime, get applicable (mage) armor, boost your withstand rating if any (probably not if it's a damaging spell), boost your hitboxes I guess, etcetera.
Sure. Could do pretty nicely mixing that with Rapidity for a light feinty style, making up for the cumbersome shield by taking only quick, fast strikes, throwing people off guard with your shield to make killing blows.
>Oh, and I see there was a dust-up yesterday about whether translating Spirits' language (aka First Tongue) was Spirit or Mind.
>The answer, obviously, is both. Spirit 1 or Mind 3.
Wouldn't understanding First Tongue or any other language only require a Mind 1 Unveiling or Knowing spell?
Story time? Story time!
>trying for the third time to ST my New Orleans MtAw scenario (based on N.O. VtR book)
>tired of starting adventures on beggining of metaplot (February 2014, one month before MardiGras)
>ok, let's advance the plot and put then in last week of October 2014
>in original adventure, they would be at least powerful enough to face big metaplot issue
>give them a lot of bonus to start with, more arcana dots, free merits and lots of dots in rotes
>this should be enough
>basic plot: Be guided by a higher spirit to find an old object (I decided to use that cursed emerald on core rulebook)
>go into depths of N.O. swamp
>old house where old object was
>time to fight
>demon (inferno, not descent) not that good
>one of PCs went straight to boss. Seer Master of Death
>PC is also Moros, tries to crack the floor above boss so he feel down
>not good enough. One of boss' legs gets stuck on the floor
>boss puts PC to sleep
>steal soul time
>one of PCs (who was fighting the demon) was a Fate focused Acanthus
>uses scry to see what's happening to friend
>ok, GM, I want to wave the Fate so the floor cracks down (since it's an old as fuck house, it will be enough) and my friend gets safe
>rollss Fate + Gnosis
>I secretly roll the "you're abusing from Fate yu sick bastard" dices
>ok, the floor cracks down
>the WHOLE third floor cracks down on you
>and since the house is old as fuck, the second floor also cracks down
>but this isn't enough. The first floor also cracks down
>but it's okay. Moros PC is lay down there, sleepy and confy in the ashes of your enemies
But since he did 6 fucking sucesses, none of PCs died. How ironically...
Does anyone else feel that Vampire: the Requiem Second Edition really fucked with the overall feel of the game?
I tried running it with a group recently, and they've been in two of my previous Vampire games, but for some reason they really didn't enjoy this one. The concept of feeding grounds didn't make a ton of sense to either the players or me when placed in the WoD, and they felt that the penalties for losing Humanity amounted to nothing, whereas in previous Vampire games it felt more like a slow crawl into insanity and violence.
VtR 2E is kind of like a supernatural high-school simulator. You've got the rich kids, the jocks, the s̶l̶u̶t̶s̶ popular ones, the nerds, and the gross/weird ones who people expect to plant a bomb in the library. Everyone's in a clique, and gossip is the primary currency.
They TRIED to reinforce the personal horror aspect with Touchstones, but there's just too much fun to be had with seducing the freshman Mekhet dork into pants-ing the Ventrue douchebag.
I wouldn't go as far as to call it "sanitized", but taking the Victorian/Gothic influence out of nWoD has certainly altered the setting a lot more than any mechanical change. It's subtle at first, but the deeper we get into Second Edition, the more it's visible.
Yeah, I don't know.
It just feels...not World of Darkness.
VtR had always felt like--at least within my group--a bunch of antiquated traditionalists squabbling over control of the city as they lose control over themselves or their actions.
Now, it feels like...well, shitty teen horror, like you said.
Is that the general consensus over here in /tg/ or am I in a minority finally?
>I wouldn't go as far as to call it "sanitized", but taking the Victorian/Gothic influence out of nWoD has certainly altered the setting a lot more than any mechanical change.
Thee whole thing is heart-breakingly boring and repetitive
I wouldn't say that you're alone or the majority, but there's been a pretty strong vibe of "CofD is mechanically better/mechanically different but the magic of nWoD 1e is gone" in these threads. There's also folks who like CofD way more than nWoD 1e. I think it really does come down to how you want to approach your horror. 1e comes at it in a way that's just not going to work as well in 2e.
IMO the big difference between it and VtM is that Masquerade has a lot more other stuff going on outside of the melodramatic squabbling. There are Sabbat raids, unknown/non-Kindred threats, Antediluvian bullshit, and an impending apocalypse, all of which readily overshadow the other, "OMG can you believe he mispronounced the elder's name?" stuff.
In VtR, you've got the ChroD toolbox going on, so none of those outside factors exist unless the ST makes them exist. Even the Strix are presented more as an option than something that the players are guaranteed to encounter. Out-of-the-box, you just don't have as much of that other stuff, so the gossip and the power plays are almost always relevant.
It certainly gives off a "safer" vibe, in that Morality/Integrity is no longer a hard downward spiral and all the splats are getting a power boost. Turning "big deal moments" into a hard mechanic also kills some of the emotional impact.
That's...not really what magical realm means. It's more like:
"Oh, I guess you all enter the Cootchie-Cootchie-Coo Forest, where all the trees have little, plastic-like nubs on their roots that gently and pleasantly tickle your bare feet! How inconvenient for you, and how uncanny that this is the third time today! Roll to resist wanting to be ticked forever and I'll be in the bathroom for a bit."
>Honestly I think you were reading a lot more VtM into VtR 1e than was ever there to begin with.
>Im still pissed my players refused to play a mage game where they all play high school kids
Not every gamer has unresolved adolescent issues and needs or wants to run revenge power fantasy chronicles.
While the CofD can certainly be used for such purposed, many much prefer more mature horror.
I don't really see how having teen characters means that the game has to be revenge or power fantasy. Teen Problems don't have to lie into one or the other to be fun, gameable stuff.
Far more often than not, a teen character game is either a chronicle played by actual teens, and represents their experience and maturity, or by adults, and while possibly fun to some, generally devolves into a power fantasy play evincing unresolved teen or insecurity issues.
It's not nearly as fun as some believe or suggest to a great many players, particularly because it doesn't let the CofD live up to its full mature potential.
In any event, everyone should play the games the want, how they want. I was simply not surprised that the Anon's group or others might not be interested in high school Mage.
No. Overall everyone seems to like 2e more. In fact, I didn't care for Vampire and now it might be my favourite game.
Also, to remind you, the penalty for losing humanity is:
● Several dice pools become capped by Humanity
● You lose Touchstones, making it easier to lose Humanity
● You get your Clan Bane, which you don't get until you lose Humanity
● Your Banes get stronger
● You likely gain more Banes, because why not
-- ● This means you lose Humanity faster
● Interacting with humans becomes more penalized
Not to mention that Humanity is basically the same as it was previously, but with more Breaking Points that emphasize that it's not just about being a good person.
Also, yes, feeding grounds have been a thing forever. It's even a Merit in Damnation City.
What are you even talking about.
I disagree vehemently. In fact, I feel the exact opposite. A lot of things in 1e had a strong gameplay and story segregation to the point that it was easy to ignore many of the drawbacks and downsides of a character type. Requiem 2e codifies many of the themes and makes them stand out more by giving them mechanics. Touchstones and Humanity and the Banes really drive home themes, as opposed to simply existing just to exist.
So? Go fucking magical realm. You bet a teenage Thyrsus would get caught fucking a spirit. That shit would be all over the MageBook. Which is a thing in the Free Council book.
No. Teen sex. You know, like a ton of movies have (even if the actors are all 30). Like all the BEST horror movies have.
I like playing teenagers because my teen years were pretty boring, sure, but I also like playing teen characters (and enjoyed running that teenage Sin-eater game) because teens have restrictions that adults don't. I mean, look at Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That show, but WoD. That's the kind of game I enjoy running. Dealing with school problems and also parents and teachers mistaking your sleeping in class and breaking curfew as the result of TEEN PROBLEMS like drugs and sex... as opposed to going out every night to fight monsters.
And then your characters DO actually turn to drugs and sex and teen drinking because they can't tell mom where those bruises come from and IS THAT A GUN!?
And then eventually you can't keep the precarious balance of living a real life as a teenager with friendship and school and family obligations with being a supernatural or a monster hunter and you just snap and steal a car, rob the hardware store, and hit the road like Hack/Slash or Supernatural.
Seriously, though, that's my dream game. Something that goes from Buffy to Supernatural.
I've literally talked someone's ear off for an hour about how Touchstones are a brilliant example of emotionally resonant mechanics.
I've even convinced a friend who hated Requiem but loved the Bloodlines game to play a one on one. It's her first time playing tabletop, and we've only done two sessions where not much really happened, but she seems to be enjoying it so far.
Like I said, I thought Requiem 1e had some good ideas that fell flat, but I've really been loving VtR2e.
I'm not the person calling it sanitized and boring, but there's a clear shift in tone from the Victorian Gothic influenced "the wages of sin is death" of 1e to the more cosmic horror "no one gives a shit about you in the long run" tone of 2e. It's a subtle change that influences a lot of the new fluff in the new editions.
>more cosmic horror "no one gives a shit about you in the long run" tone of 2e.
that is not the tone of 2e
it's not even the tone of the God-Machine Chronicles, which you are clearly referencing here
>Touchstones are a brilliant example of emotionally resonant mechanics
I think that's why I don't like that much Touchstones. Sure, is good mechanic. But it's kinda "monetizing" RP. All CftD thing is "monetizing" RP.
Instead of "wow, what a good work. Here are some XPs for you", you already got that in the book saying what you must do and what pre-requisites are. It's not letting me chose what I want to do.
Sure that this conversation would be resolve with "Since you're the ST, you can do the way you want", but then it would be pointless to express my opinion here.
As >>45262885 says, that's not at all the tone or theme of 2e.
I'm also not sure what you mean by Victorian Gothic. Because that's... not really what VtR was.
But if something isn't monetized, no one gives a shit. If there were no mechanics tied to it, no little "you get a Willpower and it's harder for you to lose Humanity!" to it, why would anyone care about their Touchstones?
It's a carrot. It's a gameplay carrot and I love that.
And even then, there's plenty of choice. What choice do you feel you aren't allowed to do? At best you aren't 'allowed' to play a character who has no friends and hates everyone. And even then you can take an object as a Touchstone.
The Evil Dead literally has tree rape.
>But if something isn't monetized, no one gives a shit
Well, I came from a rpg culture where we value too much RP and we give more reward to it. It's funny because me and my friends were discussing about it. The differences between "USA RPG" vs "BRBR RPG".
Some USA guys complained we give too much importance to RP, while then wanted only XP and "let's get through things as fast as we can".
I like to do things throug RP. We don't need Touchstone mechanics since we create a world around our characters and important NPCs that we cared. When we lose them or when we could get closer to them, we were rewarded with XP, Willpower recover and dices for next Humanity roll. And when we lost that precious NPC, things could really go straight down to hell.
Do you see how Touchstone mechanic is useless in this case? It's only a manner of perspective and how do we feel free to roleplay with our DM, players and the world around us. ]
And I won't even talk about removing Vice&Virtue. I didn't like that al all.
i think you're drawing a separation where none exists. Sure, it's great for you and your group to not need or want a mechanical benefit for your characters to have attachments to NPCs.
Touchstones don't limit this or are "anti-roleplay." They give people who may not otherwise be as invested in that sort of thing a reason to think of a bit of backstory and connection to the greater world, and for people who are already invested, it gives 'em a little bonus for humanity rolls.
It's a method of creating buy-in for players who are new to roleplay and not terribly good at creating backstories, or for grounding players who would very much like to be murderhobos.
Your post appears to agree with all the prior Anon's observations about adults playing a teen characters game, you just don't view them as problems. This in many ways proves his point.
Do you understand why many adults really might not be interested at all in playing CofD as Buffy, particularly when there are other rpgs directed at that target demographic, including the Buffy RPG.
It's not about more XP. And everything you listed is basically how Touchstones work. You haven't told me what you feel you're not allowed to do. Doing what Touchstones do doesn't mean touchstones are useless, it means the exact opposite. It means you're rewarded for playing to the game's themes.
I love linking this video, but it does a good job of explaining things.
That's really just one small part, and it still kind of exists in Vampire. More so, even. You can end up a Draugr mostly through actions not entirely your own. It's unlikely, but possible. Get into a car crash, have a family member die, spend a year in torpor, find out your daughter died, live for five hundred years, then go hole up in a cave for a decade. You've done nothing bad, but you're now a monster because you let your Humanity slip away.
You can be a stalker, sure, but you can also be the elder vampire who's an asexual sugar daddy to some lonely prostitute, going out to Waffle House with her and paying her tuition in exchange for just talking.
You're right. I don't view it as a problem. I'm able to be an adult and not have a kneejerk reaction and think that anyone who wants to play someone under 18 must be a pedophile.
Also, the Buffy RPG is bad.
Doesn't at least one of the books suggest that you could use Derangements-as-Conditions if you wanted? I know Mortal Remains does.
I believe it would be best for everyone if we just pretended the Free Council book never existed. It really was crap.
Maybe someday Dave and the new Mage crew will write a second edition, particularly since the FC has received a significant face-lift in Mage 2e.
I don't think we're going to get individual splat books for 2e. So far we've seen stuff like Secrets of the Covenants and Secrets of the Tribes, so I imagine we're getting something similar.
The Free Council book was not even in the same league as all the other Pentacle Order supplements, Seers of the Throne or Left-Handed Paths.
WW didn't even bother to give FC the same page count as the others.
It was almost like the FC supplement was a throw-away or filler project. Disappointing doesn't begin to describe that mess.
Ironically enough, Dave is on record as saying "Why the most gloriously fucked-up rote in the game is in Free Council, I don't know. But it is." So even the part Dave likes is out of place.
TotP is going to be about, well, *the Pentacle* - we've got five splatbooks for the Orders already, where they're all looked at as individual entities.Tome of the Pentacle is where we're going to look at them as an alliance.
A History of the Awakened chapter, because I have always been jealous of the one Ascension got in Guide to the Traditions - actually, think of this as nMage's Guide to the Traditions, if that helps.
Stuff about what mages are like in different countries to the western (or Tokyo) mileu we're used to.
A chapter on Convocations.
More sample settings.
That kind of thing. Or at least, that is the intent. It's not even outlined yet, as we're still halfway through Signs of Sorcery.
Definitely looking forward to TofP.
It was very unfortunate that Free Council was so crappy when all the other Order books, including Seers and Left-Handed Path, were just so excellent,
Since the FC has apparently received a significant update for 2e, I was hopeful that it would receive some particular attention in TofP.
BTW, how detailed will the Orders be described in the Mage 2e corebook? Will they each only receive a cursory description with a few simple paragraphs, or will there be at least a few pages summarizing the history, goals, secrets, ranks, etc., revealed in the 1e sourcebooks?
Well if TotP is about "looking at the Pentacle as an alliance", it's worth noting that the alliance in question is one between the Diamond and the Free Council.
So I imagine they'll get a fair bit of attention.
I could not care less about Dave updating The Man Comes Around until the new corebook is out and I can run my own games again.
Having example chronicles is all well and good, but not when you can't actually use them as such because the materials to do your own don't exist yet.
And judging by what we've seen recently from TMCA, it's well into 2e rules.
IIRC the rule of thumb is one mage per 100,000. LA has a population of 18 and a half million people, so about two hundred in a Consilium (accounting for Seer population and mages tending to cluster in cities) should do fine.
Is there any metric for how many Demons should be in any given area?
I'm running a game set in Phoenix, and atm I'm trying to figure out roughly how much room I've got to fill the city with potential allies or enemies, in the form of Demons OR Angels.
I don't know. I feel there'd be more mages than Vamps, and with 300 Vamps in Tokyo, there's probably a little more than that in the greater LA area. I am see 180 mages in the city of LA, buy the greater area? Double. At least. I mean, 100 in Vegas. LA is waaaaay bigger than Vegas.
Nah, here's what happened. You know how the birth rate in Japan is dropping? Apparently, so did the embracing rate. Otaku Vamps are way too into 2d. Like Nana Nasu.
Size and population are not always determinate. Mages primarily cluster in certain areas to investigate Mysteries and skew their anticipated numbers.
As Las Vegas is obviously a large Abyssal verge and shard of anti-reality, it might explain its large mage population.
why would there be more mages than vamps? You can't consciously create more mages or force more Awakenings, but the Ordo Dracul have a ritual that lets them embrace tens of people for the cost of one. i always run with "vampires are the most populous" because vampires have the most reliable and consistent method of reproducing amongst all the supernaturals.
Not him but here's my 2 cents.
Mages have a society that actively prevents the members from killing off each others.
Vampires are predators, and unlike werewolves, they are solitary ones. Every other vampire is a threat, and should be killed.
That said. I generally run the numbers high. Lots of vampires, just because they can reproduce so easily. And then one Mage for every 5-10 Vampires.
Werewolves somewhere in between.
Thay are also one of the more secretive of the splats. Consider the following demon the spy splat know of 1 vampire clan and only Ordo Dracul mostly because the dragons are wondering how demons work.
While they know about every mage order even knowning that the Seers oppose the Pentacle. Granted every mage when they find out about demon and what they can do they want at least 1 in their pocket.
Okay, I think a good way to view it is this. Globally, there's gonna be more Vamps. Probably. But in cities with lots of mysteries? Major cities? Probably more mages. 100 in Vegas? There'd be like 20 Vamps there.
Population density would seem to be a way better measure for vampire population than raw population, considering how Vampires work.
Based on Tokyo, for every 20 mortals per square kilometre, there's 1 vampire.
You missed a zero. That'd be 1 in 10,000. 1 in 100,000 is 185 Mages in the greater LA area.
Reminder that the greater LA area contains over half the population as the entire country of Canada, though. That ratio would only produce usable numbers for NPC casts in countries with a population of at least a few hundred million.
Depends on what mysteries your county, and country, have to offer. If it holds mysteries that haven't been cracked in decades or centuries, it might play host to most of the mages from your country, and likely more from abroad. Remember that at least 1/10th of mages laugh at things like distance and passports. They go and congregate where their obsessions lead them.
Well, the number of demons should be roughly proportional to the level of activity of the God-Machine there in general, which is... probably something you can set arbitrarily, since it's got the whole "largely unknowable motivations" thing going on.
I was using DaveB's Vegas numbers.
Im finishing up dividing up my mage for LA, but I can't think of what sort of cabals theme there should be.
So do you guys have any ideas so far. this is a crossover heavy chronicle so cabals that have other supernaturals or have merged with other groups suchs as a pack are ok.