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Previous Thread: >>45230597

What is the structure of your city like? Which organizations are in power, and how is it different from the norm?
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World of Fagness
>>
So continuing from last thread, what are some good Cabal themes?
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>>45272996
I like the idea of a Guardian-Arrow cabal with the intent of cleaning up the messes other supernaturals cause; the Arrows deal with the perps and the Guardians the scene and witnesses.
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>>45272911
My city is mostly splintered apart. The vampires went through a bloody revolution that killed off most of the elders few years back.

The pentacle runs two consilum one is recovering from a war with the local beast hive. The other trying to figure out why are the stars in the night sky are vanishing with no one the wiser.
All the while the Pure werewolves are preparing in act a crusade apon LA.
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>>45273040
Well most.... I think most clean up after themselves.
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>>45272911
1860's London.

>Vampires
Invictus and Sanctum are in power. Carthians and Crones are almost entirely absent. Dracul have an embassy, but they don't really give a shit about the city.

>Changelings
There are two Freeholds, the High Court (has all the Nobles and their retainers), and the Fellowship (everyone else). Both are Seasonal, and they hate each other's fucking guts.

>Werewolves
The Pure have literally no presence in the city. They have all the nice hunting groups, power and influence in the rural locations. The Forsaken are somewhat insane and have almost no organisation. The population is overwhelmingly Ghost Wolf.

>Mages
Free Council has not yet formed, so they don't exist.
The Hierarch is a Thearch, however the Guardians hold control over Magical policy which overwhelmingly emphasises secrecy and hiding all Magic. The Mysterium holds massive interests in the Nobility of the city who are fascinated by foreign cultures, religions and mysticism.
Have a policy of banishing all Nameless from the city, they're paranoid about Seer influence and a fast growing faction think the Queen is their pawn.

>Sin-Eaters
Same as it ever was.

>Demons/Beasts/Mummies/Prometheans
Haven't bothered. I've got enough going on.

>>45272996
Mine's to be an "area investigation" one centered around one persistent phenomenon, where they deal mostly with the problems it causes.

Think Torchwood with Mages.
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>>45272911
Well, I've mentioned a Mage campaign I'm prepping for before, but here's more of the details.
The local Consillium is run by an Arrow who was tired of the previous Heirarchs methods. He has made the local Beasts agree to work with them, gaining easy sustenance. They're kept on a short leash, however, to ensure the cities safety.
The major vampire players are the Carthians, who managed to actually succeed at their "revolution", and the remaining Invictus are in hiding. The Carthians use a Socratic Council style of running things, and are allied predominantly with the Seers.
The Pure are almost a non-issue, as they were fucked up by an Idigam. The Idigam has been sealed away in a forbidden chamber by a Thyrsus Archmaster, and a VERY powerful Boneshadow.
The plot hook is that some bleeding heart rebel beasts intend to break the Consillium by releasing the Idigam. How did they find out? Are they being manipulated?
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>>45273242
Why would Carthians work with the Seers? Their entire ideologies seem at odds with each other. I mean, at best the Seers oppress humanity so that the Carthians can do their whole undead communism thing better, but that feels like a stretch. I'm also not sure what "Socratic Council" means, and a quick Google search isn't turning it up as a common enough term to be understood off the bat.

How are these Beasts "bleeding heart rebels" that want to unleash a crazy demigod? Why do the Beasts agree to work with this Arrow when... they really don't have to. In fact, if they're able to hang around Mages, they're less likely to even need to go out and act as attack dogs to gain Satiety.
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>>45273573
Carthians don't have one set revolution; these ones are sick of hiding, they want to be feared. Socratic Council is like a council of 5, where those on the council make the major decisions, with lots of input from the other Carthians. They work with the Seers, since the Seers let them do what they want, whereas the Pentacle is a very rigorous rule, that cares much more about Sleepers than the Carthians. And as for the Beasts, tight leash means that they aren't ALLOWED to go attacking random people. The mages just want to maintain a certain status quo. The rebels specifically want to be able to do what they want, and they've heard that the Idigam can deal with the mages.
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>>45273573
>>45273710
Additionally, the Archmaster and Boneshadow have vanished since the sealing.
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>>45273710
That's an oligarchy. Also, Carthians aren't exactly an always in hiding thing in the first place... Most of them are very open, and often even have ruling positions in a city, even if they're not the ones calling the shots.

I'm also saying that these Beasts don't need to go attacking people. If they're deep in the Consilium, they're perfectly capable of Family Dinner without needing to do the Arrow's dirty work. There's no reason for them to need to agree to work with the Arrow.

I also don't know how well releasing an Idigam would work, or more accurately how reasonable it is that someone might think that.

I really just feel like you're bringing in too much, and making it all too tied to the setting. I don't even know what your characters are, though I presume mages, and you've set up this city that is filled to the brim with crossover madness.
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>>45273783
It is a Mage campaign. There's a very good reason that those Beasts want to free the Idigam, specifically. But one of my players is in the thread, so spoilers. These are also specifically Beasts that WANT to be monsters.
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>>45273811
Well you described them as "bleeding heart rebels"
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>>45273831
It was sarcasm, but it didn't translate.
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One of my players want to use the Gaolers of Ialdabaoth in our 1.5e game and we're having some trouble coming up with attainments that don't suck shit. The optional death component is just "the same thing now also works on ghosts" and its pretty dull. But finding death spells that conjoin with spirit in interesting ways is kind of hard and it feels like it'd be easy to just make the optional arcana something else entirely. My player is a Moros though so having it death or matter is convenient.

Any ideas?
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>>45273231
>The population is overwhelmingly Ghost Wolf.
Why does this sound like a bad thing?
>>
So I was on another board, posting whilst drinking. Someone asked for a source on a song I'd posted, I told them they'd have to amuse me if they wanted it. They got pissed off and found it themselves, then smugly posted it. My drunk ass then told them that this had been my plan all along and they'd been taught self-sufficiency, to which people responded by calling me a dick and suchlike.

The point is, this is why nobody likes Beasts. They're just drunk shitposters with superpowers.
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>>45274316

You actually made them sound fun
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>>45274316
I thought this was why nobody liked Beasts?
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>>45274201
Depends how you look at Werewolves.
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>>45274378

This is literally me
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>>45274378

I thought that could be said of all Splats, really.
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>>45274479
as far as splats go Sin Eaters are pretty normal people...
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>>45274527
Likewise Mages. Nothing bad ever happened to them, they jut woke up one morning and realised they were so awesome that physics decided to do as they say.

Nothing bad happens if they don't use their powers & no obligations they don't impose on themselves. Mages are living the sweet life by WoD standards.
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>>45274604
>They just woke up one morning and realised they were so awesome that physics decided to do as they say
Well that's entirely false.
The most important part of any Mage's life is their Awakening.
It turns their life upside down, it shakes their entire being to the core.
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>>45274604
>>45274527
Doesn't mean they can't decide to wreak petty vengeance on their lessers.
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>>45274739
And the....nothing. No obligation to act like Vampires, no consequences for doing nothing like Prometheans, just freeform power and only the risks he voluntarily takes on as part of furthering his own interests.
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>>45274769
We discussed this a few weeks ago, and it was pretty definitively concluded that those who Awaken are of a certain mentality so that they'll almost compulsively hunt down mysteries.

Those who feel no such compulsion, and who would just do nothing after Awakening wouldn't really have Awakened in the first place, and making the entire human race like such a person is really the ultimate goal of the Seers.
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>>45274378
http://chroniclesofdorkness.tumblr.com/post/138849688801/right-after-the-devouring
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If another splat (any splat) could use spells from a single arcana, which would be the most generally useless?

Prime?
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>>45275057
Prime, without a doubt.
Every other Arcanum has wide applications for any other group. Though were that supernatural facing down against a Mage? Prime would be a more excellent choice.
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>>45275057
Definitely. Magic relating to magic and tass isn't going to help out a vampire much. The new purview of truths is nice, but wouldn't be enough for another splat to care. A better question is,
>which would be the most generally helpful?
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>>45275118
Time
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>>45275150
Time might be the most helpful to mages as well. Temporal Band-Aids and all. Storytellers can get pretty annoyed with their antics, though.
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>>45275057
>>45275070
>>45275118
>>45275150
>The concept of "Truth" is not useful for anyone else
Even in 1e, Prime was really useful. Prime was more than just counterspelling. The ability to Green Lantern up shit was good.
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>>45275183
I said it was nice, but not enough. Which is pretty damn true. Prime is great for a mage, but the worst arcanum fit a non mage.
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>>45275183
If you had the option to pick one arcana, which would you take? I bet it wouldn't be Prime
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Hi,

treasure trove for the CofD books?
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>>45267911
>>45268088

We have never given a ratio for Awakenings to Sleepers in the CofD / nWoD. It's entirely fanon.

The closest we've ever come is a few descriptive pieces, noting that mages are one of the more common supernatural beings (like vampires) rather than being one of the rare sorts like Prometheans and Beasts.

It would be hard to take a census anyway, as mages cluster where they find interesting supernatural anthills to poke, as opposed to vampires and werewolves who at least try to spread themselves out, territorially. For different reasons, but the effect's the same.

So the mage population of a particularly Mysterious city could be well in advance of the vampire population, without the global number of Awakened exceeding the global number of vampires. Of course, the global number of Awakened *might* exceed the vampire population. It's hard to tell.
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>>45275265
From your perspective, as a GM, how many mages would you stick in LA? Assuming it was a hotbed of activity?
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>>45275265
What are some example numbers you would consider "small", "medium", "big", or "huge" consilia, knowing that this doesn't correlate to local population so much as the interest of local mysteries and similar? Like we know the Tokyo area has, what, somewhere north of two hundred and is probably among the largest consilia?
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>>45275355

LA *is* a hotbed of activity. It's even one of the sample settings in 2e.

Briefly, LA's big "thing" is that people randomly experience visions of the Temenos, and Goetia fall through into material reality with distressing regularity. Celebrities possessed by the astral entities of their own fame, that sort of thing. The Seers are terribly "interested" in the city, there's a major Banisher cult masquerading as the CofD's version of Scientology, and there's so many Pentacle mages that they've split, politically - LA is our example city where the Assembly is larger and more established than the Consilium, so you get Diamond mages who are members of the Assembly covering the majority of LA, and a small, hidebound Consilium up in the hills.
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>>45275400

50, 75, 100, 200, maybe?
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>>45275447
[s]Breaking DaveB gives hard Awakened population numbers you heard it here first[/s]
Makes sense. I suppose if a local Awakened community were any smaller than 'small', it would be part of a larger nearby consilium rather than its own.
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>>45275497
and I can't into strikethrough.
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>>45275505
Doesn't work on 4chan. You can use this, though http://fsymbols.com/generators/strikethrough/
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How do you pronounce Gnosis? Is it No-Sis?
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>>45275438
>>45275447
Thanks Dave. You succinctly summed up everything we were bickering about earlier.
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>>45275587
Pretty much.
I had not it was Noh-sis.
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Circumstantial reminder that the game about talking dogs by a random nobody using a version of the D&D OGL rules is making more money and will come out way before Awakening 2nd edition.
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>>45275631
Shut the fuck up already.
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>>45275631
And this is relevant why?
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I don't know why, but I think the Mysterons from Captain Scarlet could work well in nWoD.
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The mage can transform energy: sound into light or heat, or electricity into sound, or fire into electricity, or any combination of these forces.

So you can cast this on someone's MP3 player and make fire blast out of the headphones instead of music? Or turn a flashlight into a freeze ray?

Narly
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>>45275691
Not a flashlight into a freeze ray because freezing things doesn't work that way. But yes, it's a versatile thing.
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>>45275686
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQPMH6x_K8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RSKRKT9Xuw
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>>45275691
A freeze ray would be absorbing energy instead of producing it. You could turn it into a heat ray. Or you could turn a flashdark (the cat in the hat had one once) into a freeze ray.
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We're getting close to The Pack spoiler time.

>>45274201
Depends how many heresies and blasphemies are taking root, and how much the local Ghost Wolves give a shit about the traditionally Forsaken duties as opposed to just a) eating people, b) flipping out and c) howling at the moon.
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>>45275719
>Not a flashlight into a freeze ray

But a flamethrower, a taser or some sort of horrid scream-cannon?
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>>45275751
Yeah sure.
Keep in mind the spell doesn't change the intensity of the energy by itself, though. You'll need a second one to make it really hurt.
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>>45275691
That's a Patterning application of Forces, which transforms energy of one kind into another. It requires Adept proficiency (4 dots). Sadly you can't create additional energy from nothing, so the fire from the headphones will likely be quite weak.

Also how do you turn light into an absense of heat?
That's a simple Fraying spell to destroy the heat, or perhaps a powerful Ruling or Weaving spell to suck it out of them.

Fun fact, once you get to Forces 5, you an make things go absolute zero with an unmaking spell.
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>>45275764
Not that a bit of fire doesn't hurt by itself. Fun trick on vampires.
>Do you really think a flashlight is going to hurt me?
>OH GOD
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>>45275751
>Flashlight into a horrid scream-cannon?
All you realy need to do after that is bind a Goetic Demon of Lust into it and you have something awesome, a sonic flashgasm gun.
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>>45275783
It's been done https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgazmo
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>>45275815
that's what I was referencing, I think.
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>>45275631

I'm totally okay with this
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>>45275587

No-sis
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>>45275594

I wish I could print that cartoon in the book.
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>>45275903
Trace it and lie. Worked for Exalted
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I've got a big climax coming up in my hunter game with at least two players literally fated to die, wanted to give them a decent chance given the amount of prep work but what I'm ultimately thinking of doing is putting it on a timer. Those who are fated to die here will probably not be with the party and will be taking lethal every minute on a stop-watch until the group manages to save them or flee, which would give them a minimum of like...14 minutes, would probably stop the timer for turn by turn stuff but aside from that would just keep it running. Is this the worst idea ever?
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>>45272996
>dat feel when none of my tables my players do Cabal theme or dynamics
They simple just do "wow our cabal will be no name and we will do nothing because ~much mystery~". I hate this. They are a bunch of lazy dudes.
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>>45272911
2014 New Orleans

>Vampire
Same as it is on supplement.

>Mage
Mysterium and Guardians alliance. Silver Ladder plots everything behind the backstage. Adamantine Arrow doing sentinel work, but the youngers and elders are having a conflict about it. Free Council do their Free Council thing and nobody gives a shit about it.
Here, Traditions were the one who came first in New Orleans and so Diamond respects Traditions here a lot.
Consilium tries to control everything on the city, but it will be always a chaotic city and so desperation runs free.

>Sin-Eaters
Since Storyville magical incident and Katrina, the Underworld was never the same. They're trying to keep it calm down or it will make kaboom again.

>Werewolf
Same as Sin-Eaters, but with Spirits. There's a lot of Uratha and Pure from the Lodge of Death. Constantly crossovers with Sin-Eaters, which it isn't good for the business of the second one.

>Hunters
Well organized structure, which scares a lot supernatural creatures. Mages sent a spy to their internal comitee so s/he could pass up info for Pentacle&Traditions about their plans and obscure alliances.
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>>45276059
>other stuff
I based some stuff on tv series "The Originals", so I used the concept of "Ancient Spirtis of Dead Witches" here. Basically Mage Ghosts who broke their anchors and could reunite themselves with their original soul and became undying spirit mages (since they're technically dead) who could progress on power again. They are feared and venerated by mages (and werewolves and vampires who know about them). I also used the concept of "witches who were brought to shadow realm by them and then taught these guys about power and magic" from the tv series and created "The Touched Ones".
Also, I created a Merit around it and let only one of my players to buy it. Obviously, one of them did it.

>mummies/changelings/prometheans
Didn't right about them.

>beasts/demons
Do not like them. Beasts doesn't exist in my scenario and I use WoD's Demons.
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>>45275438

I'm curious what the Demon and Promethean 2e activity is like in Los Angeles.

I would expect WW would do something compelling with the City of Angels.

Obrimos supernal summoning would probably also be interesting given the symbolism.
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>>45275719
>>45275751
>>45275776
>flashlight into a freeze ray

Since Forces controls weather, you could turn your flashlight into a blizzard gun.
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>>45275631
>>45275835

Doggies :-3
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>>45276372

You can tell he's really feeling it
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for the alternate composition adaptation, what do you lot suppose the rating would be for a creature plated from head to toe in ceramic?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuLEfOWzbOA
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the ENTIRE Mysteron Consciousness was the product of ONE Moros with a Mind Legacy who said "Fuck it." and buggered off to Mars through the Astral.
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I just realized that if you use Forces to convert Light into Gravitational pull (You can do that with Patterning, right?) then you can turn a 4000 Lumen incandescent bulb into a gravity gun.
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>>45272996
Ugh. Cabal themes are one of the hardest things to manage.
I had one who went for Norse monsters themes. They were led by a guy named Fafnir.

They were a mixed Mysterium/Guardian cabal. The Mysterium part of them were the local Censorium. They were all fully aware that they were going to be hated. So they use the symbolism of despised monsters.
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>>45277144
I think it's one of the easiest things to manage. Unfortunatly, all my players are lazy as fuck about it.

Only when I played with other players that we created cabal themes.
One was about alchemical elements on astrology.
Another one was a cabal of neonates who lost their mentors in some way and our rites were based on Siegfried tale.
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>>45275587
>>45275874

If you go via English, yes.
If you go via German, or some of the Scandinavian languages, it has a hard G at the start.
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>>45275162
Ain't that the truth of it. I mean I try so hard to kill off NPC left and right. But my bleeding heart time master keeps going back in time to save them.
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>>45277233
In portuguese, we write "Gnose" and say "Gui-nó-ze"
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>>45277189
You have any others? I have a large-bordering-on-huge concilium to populate, and as I said, it's one of that hardest things for me. If you don't mind me stealing them, of course.
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>>45277284
That's the problem with a word that has migrated through a lot of different languages.
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>>45277276
>going back in time as a master
This remmembered a funny discussion about it in a session where our Acanthus wanted to go back in time, but since he was only Time 4 and there were no rules about how much you can go back in Time 4, our DM didn't let him do it proporley because "he would ruin muh story and muh plot and everything I planned"

It was pretty hilarious and sad because that's what quite happen in tables where you got a focused Time mage and our DM couldn't deal with this fact.
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>>45277084

Now that the "speed bumps" have been removed from Forces, it *theoretically* should be crazy powerful, even at lower levels.

I'm curious if theory will meet practice in Mage 2e, or will Forces still be gimped by requiring strong effects to always use a lot of Reach and significant dice penalties for spell factors.

I'm also curious of the new book will explain how to control computers and electronic data and devices using magic. It appears to only require Forces, but it was never quite clear and the relevant spells in the supplements were confusing (and suffered inconsistent power creep).
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>>45275438
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!! Im running a LA crossover and that is almost exactly what I have for LA. Now I Need to look into the astral more. Thank you Dave.
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>>45277307
>Gnosis
>word that has migrated through a lot of different languages.

In game, I assume there's a universal High Speech word for Gnosis that transcends all cultures and Fallen language.
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>>45277287
You can steal whatever you want, my sweetheart.

In my New Orleans scenario there is some famous cabals as:

- A cabal made of Tamer of Caves. They try to help sleeper society with their indestructible hope, which kinda annoys mage society because they don't get it what means to be a Saint;

- A cabal of Mysterium+Silver Ladder focused on study the condition of death, soul and Underworld. They have big influence and rumors said they control a sleeper high society of people who study deadly mysteries;

- A cabal of probably only Acanthi mages who lives the city as a big party. They enjoy the city and all opportunities it gives to them. They are considered dangerous because "enjoy ALL benefits of New Orleans" might be dangerous as fuck;

This are the one I remmember now. I will get more info in my notes.
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>>45277338
You look upon an encrypted computer with Mage Sight. You will see a locked box of electricity. Focusing your mind, you draw down the supernal onto it, and you apply the symbol of a key, countering the lock.
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>>45275749
Hey Cris we got a general gist of vampire and mage population in a city.... How do you determine the werewolf population? Also do werewolves still use Alpha/Beta/Omega parks for a cities hierarchy?
>>
No matter how fringe or unusual you cabal theme might be, rest assured it's far better than the goofy baseball-themed cabal from WOD: Chicago and Mysterium.
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>>45277456

Even my caber toss cabal?
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>>45277456
Don't you dare diss the Game of Geometric Perfection!
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>>45277287
And, one more cabal.

A cabal named "Hijos de Mictlantecuhtli" ("Sons of Mictlantecuhtli" or simply "Sons of Micli"). A cabal of Thread Cutter's mages who follow the web of destiny and do third party job. They are not consideraded Left-Hand or Renegade Cabal... It's just... Well... Simply don't get in their way too much.
They're helping the city, so, who cares at all?

And if you remmeber well, Mictlantecuhtli was one of final boss in a adventure in "Book of the Dead". If they're pawns in Micli game or it's just a coincidence, this is up to you. I had a lot of fun creating them. One of my favorites.

Also, there's another cabal - a renegade one - called "Nimbostratus 9". It's a reference for the "9th Heaven" expression. Each mage has a name of a cloud and they're all Logophage Legacy mages. This is another cabal I had fun to create.

Now, give me a hug and a kiss on my neck as a reward. B-b-b-be gentle, ple-ple-please.
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>>45277471
>caber toss

While it would certainly be competitive with the Game of Geometric Perfection Cabal, it's at least more original and amusing.
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>>45277338

I believe you'll still only need Forces to directly control computers, the internet, electronics, etc.

However, you might need Matter to alter hard storage like USB drives and Mind to do things like break encryption or actually understand computer code or wireless transmissions.
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>>45277485
>>45277380
I can do that, and also ruffle your hair and whisper sweet nothings into your ear.


In return, here are a few of the groups I've managed to pull, with force, out of my recalcitrant imagination.

Stella - Star themed. The leader of the cabal goes by Polaris and considers the cabal to be the guiding star of Awakened politics in the region.

The True Path - Less a Cabal, and more of an indoctrination cult into the Daksha and the Jnanamukti heresy. They are damn good at sweeping in and getting a talking-to to young mages still reeling from the Awakening, and selling their own world-view to their victim.

A cabal of international vampire slayers named Dawnlight. The ideals fit with the theme of the Cabal, but the members are a bit more ragtag.

Soulfire - A cabal that's on the surface looks like a band of raging demoniacs. Actually, they are specialists in the matters of exorcism and combating various kinds of demonic incursions. They have a lot of Ars Goetia and classical "satanic" props though.
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>>45277320
Well depending on how far back you want shifting sands works just fine. But I'm not really complaining about him being a Time Master, I'm just sure I found him in the thread and call him a bleeeing heart. In actuality I have long sense moved on from he's ruining my plan too, how can I make this world seem darker and allowing him to make it brighter by saving all the lives I can now almost freely kill off.
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>>45277484
>Game of Geometric Perfection

You Awake to the secrets of the universe. You pierce the Lie and control reality by your will alone.

What's your supernal inspiration? What do you do with your power? What mysteries do you seek.

You become a baseball superfan, of course,...
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>>45277603
Hnnngg! M-m-my hear!

There's another one, a lesser cabal who appeared in an adventure. It's Bricoleurs only cabal who fight against Consilium high influence on the city. They claim Consilium is doing absolutely nothing for New Orleans and they get 2deep4u into scientific reserach mixed with gnosticism and underworld mythos.

They want to show their papers to society to prove their accusation agains Consilium. Obviously, they don't express this in public, only calling people on Mysterium who they really rely on and doing everything in the shadows.

Here is a plot hook for you: They managed to kidnap an Elder vampire so they could study the condition of vampirism and their soul, making a conection with their scientific research and underworld mythos.
HOWEVER... They need a Moros mage to help them, since they don't fully understand the condition of death and soul same way a Moros does.

Have fun, my love.
>>
>>45277338
>>45277535

I don't believe a mage needs Mind to understand wireless transmissions, only Forces.
>>
>>45277742
Well if there just average mages I wish them luck keeping an Elder in check. Depending on the Elder he could either kill one of the mages in seconds by using a lot of vitae or is simply waiting out cause he has his own plan involving the mages.
Actually he could be Ordo Dracul and be like "Might as well see what they could figure out"
>>
Why not mind 1 & force 1 to gain the information and convert it into a language they understand?
>>
>>45277825
Well, in the adventure, they kept him in a low vitae rate, but enough for him not use his powers and not get into a frenzy/torpor. They're smart enough to know what they were dealing with.

But he managed to manipulate the PC to give in blood and then everything went down to hell.
Obviously I worked more on this vampire, but it's up to you what this vampire will represent on your campaign.
>>
>>45277883
I have taught my player that the high end of any splat are scary as fuck to deal with. So there no way in hell thay would try to capture anything like an Elder.
>>
>>45277923
If the vampire decided it was time to lie low for a while though, with plausible deniability, however..
>>
>>45277843
Because that's overcomplicating it; Forces 1 is literally knowing forces, and thus knowing machine code would be a Forces 1 spell.
>>
>>45277923
>the high end of any splat are scary as fuck to deal with

Connections and social merits maybe, but straight up power your average cabal are going to wipe the floor with a 6+ anything else
>>
>>45277957
You average cabal is going to have around 4 gnosis with 4 members. While a elder vampire could become indestructible for a time, a mummy would wreck there shit with a ability to counterspell them, and deathraging werewolf that decided to put anything into gift of strength.
>>
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>>45278041
According to DaveB, about 1% of all mages are Gnosis 1, yet you claim that the average cabal is full of Gnosis 1 mages?
Unless you meant median, rather than average, cabal that number would also mean that there are lots and lots of mages UNDER Gnosis 1, to make up for anyone above it.
>>
>>45277437
>How do you determine the werewolf population?

So my baseline is ~1 werewolf every 15,000/20,000 humans in an area, although ramp the outcome numbers up or down according to your needs / to avoid overload. Of these, split them between the factions depending on what sort of setting you are portraying; I'd usually go ~50% Pure, 40% Forsaken and 10% Ghost Wolf but that can vary massively depending on local circumstances.

>Also do werewolves still use Alpha/Beta/Omega parks for a cities hierarchy?

...by parks do you mean packs? Not as a default, no, but certain packs are likely to end up more or less influential depending on their resources, skills and reach in the Shadow and human political landscapes.
>>
>>45278095
Not what i meant not all together have gnosis 4 but each of them having gonsis 4.
>>
>>45278114
Thank you for this it really helps out.
>>
>>45277923
See, this is how I thought about things as a player, and I expected it to go this way, but our Storyteller just straight up had us fight a 4th gen (5th with a diablerie) Gangrel methusaleh motherfucker the other day, and we totally stomped his ass (though four of us nearly died on account of being set ablaze. Thankfully, Zulo form + Blood Rage for loadsa strength means hella potent Vicissishit. Our Tzimmie popped his bitch chest right open.)

So I guess in some stories you mug high enders.
>>
>>45278277
I don't really have anything to say about this. It classic world of darkness and I have no experience with its system.
>>
>>45278355
>and I have no experience with its system.

Where do all these lucky, modern, sophisticated groups live?

My people still think fucking Pathfinder is cutting edge and new. Our Vamp Storyteller played so long ago that he wasn't even familiar with Tzimmie shit, and was legitimately shocked at the outcome of all those rules-legal interactions.
>>
>>45275631

>by a random nobody
>Eddy Webb, line developer for V20

Why must you have so much salt?
>>
>>45275946

It's not the worst idea ever, but mixing real time and game time stuff is a pain in the ass. Try to keep it to game turns or scenes if you can.
>>
>>45277338
>>45277420
>>45277535
>>45277768

If DaveB's still around, could you provide any insight into how Mages control and understand computers, electronic gadgets, the internet, wireless transmissions, electronic and stored data, etc. in Mage 2e? What Arcana are required, specifically does it require the conjunctive use of Forces, Matter and Mind?.

I'm just as confused as the original Anon, and I've recently had new player ask some related questions.

Thanks.
>>
>>45275946
They actually have something for this in vampire 2E book. It called Pacing and Urgency its on page 281.
>>
>>45272911
guys
should i buy Geist the Sin-Eaters for 33 or will there a second edition?
>>
>>45278943
It's future hasn't been decided yet.

Geist is crap though, buy Promethean instead
>>
>>45278943

There MIGHT be a second edition, but you still shouldn't buy it for 33 dollars anyways. If that's for the hardcover, that'sounds the original 1.0 print and not the 1.1 errata's print and I don't think that there's a file with just the errata.
>>
>>45278943

Geist's future is still undecided, but even it gets a second edition, it will not be available for a few years.

The hardcover printing is also a hot mess of mistakes.

You're probably best advised to illegally download it along with the 1.1 errata, and if you're impressed, you can always purchase the actual book.
>>
>>45278972
is promethean not getting a second edition?
i recommend waiting if so
>>
>>45279200

Promethean 2e is already written and edited and should be released soon after Mage 2e.
>>
>>45279256
>after

Mage 2e is never coming out
>>
What about a vampire

That is the dancing queen

And is forever 17
>>
>>45279291
Die
>>
>>45279328
>>45279291
I see no problem with that.
Daeva. Will probably become extremely tired of it after a decade or two, and grow up.
Like normal people, then.
>>
>>45279328

It already died and came back and now feels the beat from the tambourine forever
>>
>>45279384
>>45279291
If you want a creepy ABBA-vampire, use The Piper as influence instead.
>>
>>45279256

8 of 10

mage is stuck in a spell of infinite stuckness
>>
>>45278706
>Computers
>does it require the conjunctive use of Forces, Matter and Mind?

I doubt that most effects require simultaneous Arcana. Unlike Ascension, except for the most unusual circumstances, nothing requires more than one Arcana in Awakening by design.

Forces alone can probably control anything electronic or computerized, including understanding wifi and radio signals. Specifically encrypted material, however, may require a separate Mind to understand or translate.

I imagine most Obrimos would have no real need for a cell phone
>>
>>45275631
I like Pugmire.

I just don't like that it's literally just 5e OGL D&D.
>>
>>45279363
>>45279384
>>45279291
The Dancing Plague is actually mentioned in the Daeva writer up.
>• The Dancing Plague swept through Europe for centuries. The documentation is most complete: official reports and affidavits from surgeons, priests, and magistrates. The contagion spread on unknown vectors. One dancer soon became tens and hundreds. They danced for days, until collapsing in ecstasy. Some danced until their ribs broke. Some danced until they died from heart failure or stroke. Throughout, they screamed, laughed, or cried. Some sang. Witnesses claimed they “wore strange, colorful attire” and “held wooden sticks.” Some paraded naked, made obscene gestures, and even committed sexual intercourse in the streets. Some became agitated by those who refused to dance. They reacted violently to the color red and pointed shoes. Some claimed they had been stung, and the dancing separated the venom from the blood. The clergy exorcised. Physicians bled patients. Mass hysteria? Ergot poisoning? One village claimed as many as 50 fatalities, but they had not counted the bodies that kept dancing after death. They did not hear the feverish beat tapping from shallow graves. There is a woman in a monastery outside of Strasbourg. The color red excites her so. She has been dancing since 1518.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_Plague_of_1518

>>45279585
>I imagine most Obrimos would have no real need for a cell phone
Convenience. Sure, I could cast a spell and transmit my thoughts as data.
I could also walk to the pizza place.
But ordering delivery is so much easier.
>>
>>45275691
You can also turn the sound of their footsteps into explosions.
>>
>>45279679
You know. There's a folktale about something like that hitting a small town in central Sweden as well.
>>
>>45279706
Nope.
That'd require amplification. Sound and explosions are practically the same thing anyhow. Shock waves.

What a Mage COULD do is transform the kinetic energy of a charging enemy into say, heat.
>>
>>45279758
Doesn't apply to kinetic energy accoridng to the spell factor.

And maybe not explosions, but you could turn them into fire, which would make someone yelp, which itself would then become fire
>>
>>45279789
It doesn't? Ah well. Use Friction Knife instead then. Same level, same result.
>>
>>45279706
>>45279758

Since the Forces speed bumps are now gone, transforming sunlight (or artificial light) or basic kinetic energy into gravity should prove useful, if not very deadly.
>>
>>45279899
FEEL THE WEIGHT OF THE SUN'S GAZE UPON YOU
>>
>>45279899
>>45279928

Similarly, transforming gravity into light, sound or most anything else would be equally effective. Heck, it conceivably should be able to send an opponent straight into orbit.
>>
>>45279899
If you block gravity from an area, will everyone inside be automatically affected? Or would the spell be Withstood and if your potency isn't high enough gravity still affects some of them?
The target is just the area itself, which implies it isn't withstood. That people inside the area begin to float is just an indirect result of the spell blocking the gravity.
But that would mean those inside the area get no defense against the effect, which also feels wrong.
>>
>>45279928
Isn't that literally how Helios works now?
>>
>>45279999
>transform gravity into light
https://youtu.be/ib084tzN8H0?t=4
>>
>>45280053
Only in the Shadow. And I'm pretty sure it's less 'sunlight adds extra weight onto your back when it hits you', more 'sunlight is literally the only gravitational force in the Shadow'.
>>
>>45279899
but
but gravity isn't an energy
>>
>>45280104
It's a force, though.
And it applies kinetic energy to things.
>>
>>45279999
What happens if you turn gravity into fire or electricity?
>>
>>45280104

Neither is weather, but it's also under the purview of Forces.

The Supernal cares little of our under Fallen understanding of physics.
>>
>>45280049
>If you block gravity from an area, will everyone inside be automatically affected? Or would the spell be Withstood

A good question that only the new corebook or Dave can answer.

Since the book will apparently remain in layout forever, hopefully Dave will offer some insight.
>>
>>45280350
Just did some math with Chris werewolf population. There is around 927 werewolves in the greater LA area. Those numbers are scary as Fuck.
>>
>>45280104
>Image
Mad Obrimos?
>>
>>45279679
>But ordering delivery is so much easier.

Having a cell phone would be the equivalent of having to walk to the pizza place. Much easier and convenient to use magic.
>>
>>45280434
Sounds reasonable to me. It's a huge place.
Fits the gang war theme, too.
>>
>>45280506
It also gives a good reason to fear them. You know when they outnumber the vampires 7-1 and mages if there is a great mystery 4-1. Although half are Pure so that going to be fun.
>>
>>45280473
Imago means effort. I've got the cellphone in my pocket.
>>
>>45280713
Ah, but you might get a critical success on the casting roll for that sweet Arcane Xp.
>>
>>45272911
So on a scale from Duke Nukem Forever to Exalted 3e, what's the ETA on Awakening 2e?
>>
>>45280713
That's the kind of mindset that reinforces the Lie. You wouldn't happen to be a Banisher would you?
>>
>>45279679
>>45280473
>>45280713
>>45280812
>I could cast a spell and transmit my thoughts as data.
>I could also walk to the pizza place.
>But ordering delivery is so much easier

Why would a mage order Pizza when he could use Matter and save time and money.

Besides, everyone knows Dominos is a Seer Front and Pizza Hut and Papa Johns taste like they're from the Abyss.
>>
>>45281014
Why worry about money when he could use Matter to make more?
>>
You could also use Time to retroactively order pizza so it arrives when you want it.
Or! You could use Fate to contrive a pizza to be delivered to you, for free!

I.. I don't recommend using Spirit to get pizzas though.
Or Life.
>>
>>45281080
Just use Space to make pizza appear.

Or would Disbelief make teleporting someone' pizza to your house suddenly pop back to where it came from?
>>
>>45281041
>Why worry about money when he could use Matter to make more?

That's the spirit! Don't let the Lie hold you down.

However, I personally prefer to use Fate for some quick cash.
>>
>>45281041
Wouldn't Pizza be Life? It's all organic material.
Though you could say all of it is dead and counts as Matter because of that.
>>
>>45281014
You can't Matter up delicious food, and it takes Mana to have something edible. Also, I like Domino's.

>>45281155
Dead flesh isn't Matter.
>>
>>45281107
>Just use Space to make pizza appear

There's no need to steal, even from those Sleeper monkeys with their terrible commercial pizza.
>>
>>45281155
If Archmastery of Death can make you immortal by removing your ability to die, then surely it's lesser version can solve the pizza issue entirely by removing your hunger or need for food at all
>>
>>45281184
I like your way of thinking
>>
>>45281155

If you use Life to create Pizza, very bad things will happen.

Life is not about organic material, but things that are actually alive.
>>
>>45281180
>You can't Matter up delicious food, and it takes Mana to have something edible.

Where does it say this, either in 1e or 2e spoilers

>I like Domino's.

I don't mind it either, but that doesn't mean it's not run by Seers.

>>45281184

Isn't that sort of an extreme solution to our pizza issues. Besides, I like pizza.


Additionally, one could use Prime to summon a platonic pizza. I imagine it would be the very essence of delicious, although I'm not sure if it would have any nutritional value.
>>
>>45281213
>>45281180
So, between you two, organic matter - like dead flesh, cut onions, or Pizza - is neither Life nor Matter?
What is it then? Life+Death to create something that isn't quite alive anymore? Or Life + Forces for something that was alive but got cut up and baked?
>>
>>45281303
>noob Mage gets all philosophical
>wonders what will happen when he combines Life & Death
>SUDDENLY PIZZA EVERYWHERE!!!
>>
>>45281346
My Moros is Life/Death focused thanks to a Legacy.
So this is important information for me!
>>
>>45281294

Don't forget about Mind to compel the Sleepers to cook you homemade pizza.
>>
>>45281303
Wood is mentioned as a thing Matter can fuck around with, so probably dead organic matter is just matter, unless the "dead" part is really important to what you're doing and you need Death.
>>
>>45281377
Fate to have Pizza accidentally delivered to you whenever you are hungry.
>>
>>45281180
>You can't Matter up delicious food
Yes you can. Food is absolutely Matter.
>>
>>45281303

Absent any correction from DaveB, I would rule that standard pizza toppings are Matter.

Death is more metaphysical in Awakening, and unless you're dealing with pig carcasses or something similar, basic inanimate objects, including food, would fall under the purview of Matter.
>>
>>45281294
>Additionally, one could use Prime to summon a platonic pizza. I imagine it would be the very essence of delicious, although I'm not sure if it would have any nutritional value.

But it WOULD give you the chance to eat a pizza made out of light.
Who cares if it's filling? It's light-pizza!
>>
>>45281409
>real customers go hungry
>delivery boys get fired for incompetence
>shops go out of business after customers complain about shoddy service

Fate mages are just the most awful people
>>
>>45281485
Yeah. Also. Pizza every time you are hungry? That's just terrible. You even get sick of pizza, eventually.
>>
>>45281425

There's nothing like a platonic double pepperoni, sausage, mushroom and pepper pizza.

If you haven't tried one, you're missing out. Come on by, the Free Council always has them on Tuesday poker night.
>>
>>45281530
>You even get sick of pizza, eventually.

So use Time to make every pizza the first one you ever eat
>>
>>45281531
Important: What KIND of pizza would that be?
>>
>>45281485
>Fate mages are just the most awful people

LOL! Free Council caring about Sleepers.
>>
>>45281485
At which point the FC opens up their own Pizza joints, with any competition out of business.
>>
>>45281560
Or Mind, to experience every Pizza as if it was your first.
>>
>>45281635
My first pizza was some cheap margarita. I wouldn't want that to be every pizza experience I have
>>
>>45281574
Dude. The Free Council care the most about sleepers.
Acting like an asshole to sleepers is grounds for getting your ass kicked. Or killed, if you do it systematically enough. The Free Council are SERIOUS about sleepers.

Also, how did you make the jump from Fate magic to the Free Council?
>>
>>45281294
>Isn't that sort of an extreme solution to our pizza issues.

Go hard or go home
>>
-Awaken to the secrets of the universe
-Pierce the Prison of the Lie
-Learn how to bend realty with nothing more than your will alone

-Use near ultimate power to make pizza and play Angry Birds with your mind

-Hear Exarchs laughing hysterically all the way from the Supernal Realms
>>
>>45281818
The post was mocking the prior Anon's concern for the Sleepers and the FC who care about the monkeys.
>>
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what do you guys think of demon the descent
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>>45281856
>>
>>45278114
That... Is a lot of wolves.
>>
>>45281955
I think you need to be able to poker face like a champ. Make your players second guess everything they do by never reacting anything
>>
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>>45282014
but do you like it?
>>
>>45282044
It's great as long as you don't mind your players hating you
>>
>>45281946
>not caring about Sleepers

The children are our future homie
>>
>>45281425
>Prime to summon a platonic pizza
>eat a pizza made out of light.

My God, the pizza is full of stars...
>>
>>45282152
>pizza is just bread, sauce and tass
>>
>>45282152
Second try: On shrooms.
>>
>>45282140
>The children are our future homie

And that's why we learn Life.
>>
>>45282152
I just think a Mage pizzeria would be hilarious.
>>
>>45282184
Life magic is not an acceptable substitute for orgasms
>>
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>>45282152
Is this relevant?
>>
>>45282213

Prime creations are more than mere illusions or light constructs (which are more the domain of Forces).
>>
>>45282250
Phantasms can have durability, but still have no nutritional value
>>
>>45282206
Life can give you as many Orgasms as you want.
>>
>>45282206

Children are not required for or the inevitable result of orgasms, particularly if you know LIfe.
>>
It's still unclear if food created with Prime would have any nutritional value.

We await a ruling from Dave.
>>
>>45282283
>Children are not he inevitable result of orgasms

Every time you masturbate you murder hundreds of potential children, wrapping their corpse in socks or tissues.

Be thankful you don't have a few dots in Fate or you could see their faces. Or Mind/Death, where every ejaculation is nothing screams of the unborn.
>>
>>45281423
Life+Matter to transfrom everything you eat into tasty Pizza.
Or Mind to make everything you eat taste like Pizza.
>>
>>45282354
>everything tastes like chicken because the Exarchs liked white meat
>>
>>45277456
Hey, those guys killed Khonsu, so they must be a little badass.
>>
>>45282336
>Be thankful you don't have a few dots in Fate or you could see their faces. Or Mind/Death, where every ejaculation is nothing screams of the unborn.
And this is why Moros of the Stone Scribes and Mastigos Sphinxes never wank.
>>
>>45282380
Mages can troll their enemies like few others. You don't mess with someone that can make you unable to taste Pizza or bacon.
>>
got the vampire requiem and mage awakening for 5 bucs each at local exchange. never DMed a game like this before. any tips? I looked into the rule changes and additiona to the rules in 2nd edition WoD & Vampire
>>
Forces is the best arcarnum

Lets you make someone's nipples emit both sunlight and a heavenly chorus
>>
>>45282566
For Mage, reading DaveB's Broken Diamond Actual Play provides great inspiration. Read Soul Cage as well if you liked it.
>>
>>45282633
Also you can convert the sound and kinetic energy from your farts into light.
>"Well waddaya know, guess the sun really does shine out of my ass after all."
>>
>>45282188
I once had the Autumn court run a restaurant as a front for a Freehold meeting spot.
They deliberately made it as creepy as they possibly could, to keep mortals away. (Decorated with subtly wrong Hedgespun art, and suchlike.)

This was in a Mage chronicle. The players decided to be inconspicuous when they examined the place, and thus acted as humans. Went in, ordered, ate, while examining the place as much as they could, covertly.

Of course, the Changelings realized something was seriously wrong with these people, since their creep-out factor didn't work.

Great times.
>>
>>45282735
I prefer the phrasing from one of the Pratchett books: "They think sunshine percolates out your arse, the poor fools."
Or something like that.
>>
>>45282566
>>45282716

Broken Diamond and Soul Cage are good examples of Mage, but they're way too long to serve as an effective learning tool.

He ran a one-shot, called "Bleak House" for some friends, and posted it. It's a much more concise example of how a typical Mage adventure goes:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?316806-Actual-Play-Mage-The-Awakening-Bleak-House
>>
>>45277456
Is that a reference to The Warriors?
https://youtu.be/zL0ipXUD-uU

By the way, if you want Cabal ideas:
http://thewarriors.wikia.com/wiki/Gangs
http://strategywiki.org/wiki/River_City_Ransom/Gangs

Also, how has no one made a font from the logo? I had to make do.
>>
>>45283019
>>45283084

>Is that a reference to The Warriors?

No... it's a reference to a Cabal that is mentioned in some of the Mage stories.
>>
>>45281856
Hey, being a hubris filled asshole got those assholes to the Supernal so why not?
>>
>>45283094
Yes. I'm asking if the cabal from the story is a reference to The Warriors.
>>
>>45283108
I.. dunno? They seem like a group of very dedicated sports fans, is all.
>>
<insert splat/random superpower here> is given the option of Awakening

Does anybody say no?
>>
>>45283422
The more prejudiced sort of Hunter.
Maybe some Mummies. ("Unlimited power and secret truths? Now where have I heard that offer before...?")
Prometheans just want to be normal.
>>
>>45283475
What sort of Hunter turns down the arcane?
>>
>>45283505
The kind who sees all supernaturals as evil and inhuman.

Although I feel that most of them who think like that would just feel that it's okay when THEY have that power and be Banishers.
>>
>>45283505
The sort that sees any magic as evil witchcraft.
>>
>>45283541
>"I am the exception that proves the rule"

Nobody is going to turn down amoral-supreme power
>>
>>45281955
>>45282044
I fucking love it, personally. It hits the espionage beats I've been craving since I tried SpyCraft a few years ago(granted, that may have been as lackluster as it was due to the group, but I'm iffy about d20 systems anyways), as well as having weird science/magic bullshit which I'm always a fan of.
>>45282014
>>45282071
I've yet to actually start my game, just doing preludes right now, but we're playing over text. Instead of poker-facing, I just get to be as matter-of-fact as possible about the information they get from whatever they do.
>>
>>45283084

The baseball cabal is The Game of Geometric Perfection. They originally appeared as NPC's in WOD: Chicago and then later in the intro fiction for the Mage Mysterium sourcebook.

If they show-up again in Mage 2e, except in reference to their bloody and beaten corpses, Dave will be forever dead to me. It would *almost* be as bad as including another unicycle-riding adolescent as the signature Obrimos character.
>>
>>45282380
>>everything tastes like chicken because the Exarchs liked white meat

Never forget that in the CofD, *humans* are the other white meat.
>>
>>45282633
>Forces is the best arcarnum
>Lets you make someone's nipples emit both sunlight and a heavenly chorus

Yes, so long as you also have Life 4, in which case you can additionally change the shape and size of someone's breasts (and everything else about them) with your will alone.

Magic is awesome.
>>
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>>45284068
Why you so mad bro?
>>
>>45284299

Nothing demonstrates the revelations of the Watchtower of the Golden Key or the raw power pulsating in the Aether like a girl on a unicycle...

BTW, what the heck is she even holding in her left hand? It looks like a friggin' giant nutcracker.

I have no major objection to Glorianna as a sample character, although I think WW could have chosen much better, but much of the 1e art was simply terrible and did not set an appropriate mood. See also the oddly proportioned and contorted Silver Ladder Guy and Cowboy Moros.

The font shape and colors and layout were also abominable. Given how long we've been waiting on layout, I sincerely hope Mage 2e is a VAST improvement from the old corebook.
>>
>>45284639
>Nothing demonstrates the revelations of the Watchtower of the Golden Key or the raw power pulsating in the Aether like a girl on a unicycle...

That's a girl?
>>
>>45284666
>>45284299
Do you not see the boobs and skin-tight clothing? Of course it's a woman.
>>
>>45284776
Boobs =/= man

Believe me
>>
>>45284666

Yep, that's Glorianna, and she's back in 2e per Dave's Obrimos spoilers. Hopefully, over the last decade she's grown out of the freckles and unicycle.

"Glorianna calls magic a secret science, accessible through a mixture of reason and intuition. She always loved making things, and exposure to the Aether only supplemented her prodigious knowledge of physics and engineering. A techné specialist in the Free Council, Glorianna builds upon the efforts of Sleeper scientists, mechanics and engineers. She sees Hermes stir in wheels and engines, wakes him up, and makes him run his paces in everything from automata to directed energy weapons."
>>
>>45282566
Do you have the World of Darkness core rulebook? It sounds like you've got 1e Vampire core and 1e Mage core, which don't actually contain the core system.
>>
>>45284823
What do you have against freckles?
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>>45284886

I have nothing against freckles. However, even without the damned unicycle, they made the Obrimos signature character look like a 12 year old girl playing pretend, not a powerful, confident and mature woman who's seen the secrets of the universe.
>>
>>45285004
I don't see how those are necessary for awakening to the Aether.
All you need is strength, and Tome of the Watchtower stated that that strength can be mere strength of character and faith in their own abilities.
>>
>>45285273
Obrimos are D&D Paladins and Sorcerers
>>
>>45285307
They can be, but they can also be Clerics and Bards.
>>
>>45285273

I certainly never said Glorianna *couldn't* be an Obrimos, only that she wasn't necessarily the best choice as a signature character that would emphasize classic Obrimos themes and abilities.

>>45285307
>Obrimos are D&D Paladins and Sorcerers

Not really. Obrimos can certainly be holy warrior types, but their thematic qualities are far more versatile.
>>
>>45285307
>>45285386

CofD Mage and D&D do not even remotely correspond to one another.
>>
>>45285443
I don't know, her whole aesthetic looks pretty "buffetted by the winds of the Aether" to me.
>>
>>45285471
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
>>
>>45285500
Tell that to the people trying to draw comparisons between them to justify their arguments.
>>
>>45285483

I disagree. Her aesthetic seems like she's a girl in the the circus, and I'm waiting for the clowns to come out of a small car and acrobats to be swinging on a trapeze.
>>
>>45285500

It's apparently not as obvious as you suggest, or other Anons wouldn't be trying to parallel Obrimos to D&D classes.
>>
>>45285547

>implying the true core of Obrimos isn't just circus people
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>>45285500
>>45285538
>>45285597
In my defense, they're described as holy warriors and specialize in flashy kaboom spells
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>>45285609
>>implying the true core of Obrimos isn't just circus people

You seem to be confusing Obrimos and Acanthus.
>>
>>45285664
Really I feel the whole Acanthus cirucs angle is overplayed.
Really the two points of contact are in fortune telling, and their prediction for wandering.
>>
>>45285471
>>45285597
It's not that they correspond, it's that you can draw comparisons between the two. You can draw comparisons between anything. Get your head out your ass.
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>>45284068

They're actually in the Fallen World Anthology. Khonsu beats the shit out of them halfway through "The Unmurdered Man".
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>>45285744
Dave, are they a reference to the Baseball Furies?
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>>45285744
You forgot to mention that Gloriana (Glorianna?) is still an Obrimos signature character!
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>>45285744

I'll have to check-out the story, if not the whole anthology. Khonsu was a great character, and if he beat the shit out of them, my esteem for him will only increase.

Hey, any insight into the discussion earlier in the thread about what Arcana are required to control computers or electronics, the internet, hard storage like USB drives, and wireless transmissions like wifi and radio? Specifically, does a mage need Mind to comprehend wireless signals?
>>
>>45285744
After they killed him prior. Or killed his lookalike. Got a bit confused.
>>
>>45286241
>got a bit confused
To be fair, so did Khonsu.
>>
How do people feel about Magical children?
Not even necessarily in a Japanese Magical Girl way, more with regards to how Awakening so early in your life would affect you.
>>
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>>45286508
I've seen enough Asian horror to know this never ends well.
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>>45286508

Fuck children
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>>45286563
Not now Anon.
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>>45286563
>>
>>45285739
Yeah, but an Obrimos could just as well be a Paladin or Sorcerer as, say, a rogue.(Forces to bend light and turn invisible, Prime to disarm magical bullshit traps.)

The point is, comparing classes to paths doesn't really work, because any class could fit any path pretty well.
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>>45281955
Technojunk.
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>>45286833
It's not about what their powers can accomplish, it's about what their thematic outlook is. Obrimos are often characters that would fit with Paladin or Clerics or Oracles or other Divine Casters that are all about the word.

Rogues on the other hand would be more covered by Acanthus, the Path about being a tricky bastard who's clever and lucky.

People are comparing them from a thematic stance. I actually used the D&D classes in my Werewolf cheatsheet.
>>
>>45285744

Hey Dave, since the Bene Ashmedai aren't getting a conversion anytime soon, would you mind telling us if they'd still have Spirit and if they'd still have an attainment to defend against Spirit numina or would it just be against Goetia numina?
>>
hey guys quick question.....
if a Promethean rots things around them.....what happens to the stuff they are wearing

also how they hell does a Promethean romance anything or get into one
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>>45287206
Change clothes at least once a month?
>also how they hell does a Promethean romance anything or get into one
You're pretty much SOL there, which is part of the point.
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>>45280796
About 0.7 Half-Life 3's
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>>45287206
That's not exactly how Prometheans work.

>>45287257
My Promethean romanced people. I mean, it never turned out well, but that's because Lace was a dumbass. One of them was even immune to Disquiet. Possibly because she was a Scion, though I never found out.

You actually can manage Disquiet.
>>
>>45287311
I thought that was cancelled?
Due to no matter how good it was, it would disappoint the fans.
>>
>>45275438
>DaveB
>tfw one of the city settings you wanted the most has the Order you like the least as a central element

Welp, guess I'm gonna have to rewrite half of L.A.'s writeup.
Fucking Libertines, always ruining good things.
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>>45287350
>it never turned out well,
Hence, SOL.
>Lace
Pic related.
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>>45287414
Yeah, but it never turned out well because the Promethean was dumb. Someone smarter could handle it. Especially if they were a master of Disquietus.

>>45287410
>Hating Libertines
Be less wrong.
>>
>>45287414
>>45287350
What am I missing here?
>>
>>45287410
>Welp, guess I'm gonna have to rewrite half of L.A.'s writeup.
>Fucking Libertines, always ruining good things.

Why don't you like the Free Council?
I admit I didn't, but I've warmed up to them. Perhaps I can convert you?
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>>45287497
You are better off not knowing. It's a sad story of fucked-upedness and bad roleplaying in magical realms.
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>>45287472
Nah, I'm feeling pretty damn right.

In 1e they were an half-assed shout out to the "good sides" of the Technocracy
From what we've seen of 2e, they are a somewhat better written shout-out to the Traditions.

As I pretty much hate oMage, the designated faction for call backs to Ascension is not gonna get much love for me, especially when pretty much their entire appeal is that.
>>
>>45287497
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7307326/

>>45287544
Everyone had fun. (Except the characters).
I have no idea what's going on in that webm.

>>45287527
"They treat Sleepers like people", if some of the comments in these threads are anything to go by.
>>
>>45287589
Anyone who has actually read all the Orderbooks, instead of repeating word of mouths and memes, can tell you that's a rather low-bar to clear (they only ones that don't pass it are the Mysterium).
>>
>>45287670
>Anyone who has actually read all the Orderbooks, instead of repeating word of mouths and memes, can tell you that's a rather low-bar to clear (they only ones that don't pass it are the Mysterium).

You... you mean the Seers pass?
>>
>>45287700
The Seers are populated by power hungry assholes, and people who want to suppress the Supernatural to protect mankind.

The Mysterium blames Sleepers for much of the difficulty of their task. Absorbing Supernal truth into their cultures and thus obscuring it.
>>
>>45287700
>>45287742
He has it right, I forgot our Seer masters because I was thinking only of the Pentace Orders.
>>
>>45287764
Although, not that Seers want "Mankind" to survive, but they don't care about "people" as individuals.
>>
>>45287791
*not > note
>>
>>45287579
>Hating oMage

Nah my man, you're still wrong.
>>
>>45287921

>liking anything related to oWoD
>>
>>45281955

The best thing WW/OP has cranked out in ages, and something of a distillation of a nascent genre.
>>
>>45285855

She's one of the examples. Khonsu is the actual Obrimos signature character, or at least he's the one I requested the splat art be of.
>>
>>45287921
Hey, can't win them all, can we?

And I admit "hate" is perhaps a strong word for my feelings toward oMage. It's more like, you know all those people that just couldn't get past "Atlantis" when reading Awakening?
Consensual reality is like that for me: an idea of such profound stupidity that it killed whatever interests I may have had in the game when I read it.

Now, it's been a long time since my first brush with Ascension, and I've learned to come around a bit and recognise some of its other good ideas. But I have no interest whatsoever in ever running it or playing it.
After all whatever good bits I find in it, I can just take out and plug in the game I actually enjoy.
>>
>>45287579
But that's not true. While they have the whole "technology magic" thing going on, the Libertines are all about human society. They're Enlightenment era thinkers who can warp reality, not just scientists who think magic is technology.

The Free Council has barely anything to do with the Technocracy other than the fact that both have a good chance of using technology and computers, but this isn't oWoD, and technology isn't evil. And in nMage you could even have an Adamantine Arrow hacker or NSA analyst.

Their appeal has nothing to do with being a call back to Ascension. It has to do with being Mages who think that Sleeper culture is touching on the divine.

>>45288105
*I* hate Ascension. But you're still wrong about the Free Council.
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>>45288058
>Unicycle-girl replaced with motherfucking Khonsu
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>>45288196
>But that's not true. While they have the whole "technology magic" thing going on, the Libertines are all about human society.
While the 2e preview does support it, the entire 1e line has like only one of two instances of it, which compared stuff like Magespace of their orderbook, is too little too late.

Also, I think that your own admitted hate of Ascension has blinded you to it, but as far 1e went their entire point was "good guys technomancers".

What you call "Sleeper culture touching the divine" is a 2e refocus, and one I don't care for.
Ever since reading LHP, if I need a group of mages strongly tied to a specific culture or practice, first I see if they make sense as a local faction of one of the Diamond orders, if not then I make them a local Nameless Order, maybe with an associated Legacy, and from their cultural profile figure out what their reletionships with the others are.
I have no need of the Free Council as an order, and if they mentioned at all, it's in the past tense, as a movement that began with the 20th century and lasted untile WWII, where it broke up again.

tl,dr: I have found no need to have the Free Council as an Order in my games
>>
Here's a question for VtR 2e: Beast Shape (Protean 3) states that you take on the animal form's health. How does this interact with when you drop out of animal form?

I'd assume that if you morphed into a form with more health, it would transfer when your morphed out, and you would suffer the normal effects if it would be too much for your human form to handle.

What happens if it's a form with less health, though? Do you just get forced out at full lethal? Does the damage just directly transfer to the human form?
>>
>>45288556
>What you call "Sleeper culture touching the divine" is a 2e refocus
But it's not. Their origin story is exactly the same.

>The Free Council began as small, disparate groups and cliques of Apostate mages who were taken with new ideas circulating through Sleeper society at the dawn of the twentieth century. The origins of those ideas weren't completely new; mages were familiar with the concepts of 'republic' and 'democracy' and other popular phrases coined by the ancient Greeks. However, they were largely used among the initiates and apprentices of the Paths, and once they reach the rank of disciple largely forgotten once they grew out of such fantasies. But, for the first time in recorded Awakened history, mages began discussing the possibility that Awakened society might benefit from implementing these heretical ideas among themselves. While these groups were somewhat in agreement about the limits of the feudal system of Awakened society, there was no unifying banner under which these groups could organize; the Atlantean Orders of the day contemptuously called them Nameless. The breakthrough came in the form of invitations from various representatives of the Seers of the Throne, asking these Nameless mages to join them in opposing the Diamond Orders and sealing Sleepers off from their rightful magical heritage forever. The emphatic, and rather insulting nature of the Nameless' response became known as the Great Refusal, marking them as intractably opposed to the Seers' goals. The screams of the Seers could be heard on the moon, and many junior Seers were executed, because Seers do kill the messengers. The Diamond Orders with considerable reluctance and concern about 'polluting" the legacy of Atlantis, accepted the Free Council as a valid Order.

They're the Carthians of Mage. I mean, read their fucking wiki page. It's barely been updated http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Free_Council
They're about Sleeper Culture, not just technology.
>>
>>45288583
If you take the shape of a housecat and someone stabs you for 3L then you come out of it at 3L.

Well, 3B. As far as I'm aware you still have the undead nature.
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>>45288058
>Khonso is the actual Obrimos signature character
You are a goddamned hero, Dave.
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>>45288583
If you have 7 health and use a form that has 10 health, then take 9 bashing damage, when you switch back to your human form the 2 extra bashing roll over to become 2 lethal; same if it's 9 lethal, they become 2 agg when you revert to human.

If you use a form that has 4 health, and you take 5 bashing damage but don't immediately morph back, the 5th would roll over to become a lethal. If you morph back immediately, though, I'd rule that it just comes out to 5 bashing. And if you take the 5B/3B1L in your 4 health form, then revert to human on your next turn/otherwise not immediately, it'd remain 3B1L, but you'd now have 3 empty health boxes.
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>>45288835
So what happens if you take enough damage to kill your usual form but not your current one? Do you die if you morph back?
>>
>>45288918
Better heal before changing back.
>>
>>45288918

Yes, you die if you shapechange in such a way that you accidentally fill up all your health boxes. It's a particular danger for Werewolves, who change Size (and therefore Health) regularly.
>>
I'm trying to figure out some mage cabals and werewolf packs for Los Angeles. Do any of you guys have ideas for the City of Angels, the city that have God Machine and Infernal influence.
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