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Previous Thread: >>45057042

http://pastebin.com/mxLKGGi9

First thread made by me, instead of the guy who kept complaining about having to re-label all his thread-starter images(Aspel?), in a month or two.
How has the God-Machine been influencing events in your game?
>image source is Person of Interest, probably the Opening
>>
Lore as an in-game thing.
I know various versions of the game have various ways to do it (Skills, a Background, etc.) I'm trying to come up with a way to do it viably as a background.

I wonder if it's worth putting together a list of things at Easy/Moderate/Difficult difficulties, and you can have access to it (or be able to get access to it) if you have a dice pool high enough.
>>
>>45077740
I don't like the thought of the God-Machine existing in a big way before the industrial revolution, so its influence is incredibly minor.

However I've got a plot device coming up where a wealthy man found a "novel" about the concept of a time traveller (well before H.G. Wells). It was in fact the diary of a genine Time Traveller jumping between worlds and cataloguing his findings. He noted many things about a great many confusing futures involving the God-Machine, but most specifically details on a ritual he participated in which summoned one such Angel.

The reader thought it would be great for a lark, and performed the ritual as it was described. A (weak) Angel came out, God-Machine is quite frankly shocked that someone has created infrastructure for it, and WANTS THAT BOOK.
>>
>>45077740
>>45078115
>I don't like the thought of the God-Machine existing in a big way before the industrial revolution, so its influence is incredibly minor.
I honestly don't even treat the God-Machine as a single entity. More of a big web of cultists who think they're worshiping the *true* god, and Angels who've been summoned for one reason or another and are managing their lessers. It's just that everything related to it has a technological twist.

Gonna be running a Demon game, soon, so I've been watching Person of Interest to give myself inspiration; it's definitely helping.
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>>45077740
>First thread made by me, instead of the guy who kept complaining about having to re-label all his thread-starter images(Aspel?), in a month or two.
I fucked over my sleep schedule STing all night. Plus, that's very tedious work and I didn't save the original for most of the images. But you should try to make yours bigger, so you can see the label better, and the "general" is more or less unnecessary.

>>>45072194
>I actually imagine the internet being a hard to enter, hard to leave place in the spirit world with weird, unique ecosystems
>>>45072338
>All I can imagine is an a place that looks like those animusic videos from a while back: https://youtu.be/toXNVbvFXyk [Embed]
I imagine the Internet is a more regimented and less animalistic place compared to the real Spirit, but ultimately you basically are in Mainframe. Watch out for games.
https://youtu.be/ES2_vtJgxT4
>>
>>45078115
>>45078560

The God-Machine is not a discrete entity. It is the sum total of all Infrastructure (or more specifically, Command & Control Infrastructure)
>>
>>45079000
People don't care, they're too busy whining about the GM altogether to know anything about it
>>
>>45079052

To be fair, it can be hard to exactly delineate the difference between an entity of a single mind and consciousness, and the collection of different Command and Control Infrastructures working in (relative) harmony.
>>
>>45079303
>>45079052
>>45079000
No single ant is the hive.
>>
Anyone know if there are any decent VtR Dark Ages homebrews floating around out there?
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>>45079000
My point exactly.

I fully intend to, at some point, have 2 cults devoted to the G-M(under the guise of something else) come to blows, due to conflicting orders from different pieces of C&C Infrastructure and Angels.

An important thing to remember, though, is that the Machine part of the name doesn't necessarily mean it's technological, so much as fundamental and systematic.

While a mage might be willing to sacrifice the time to get some extra oomph on whatever they're doing, the God-Machine is a precise and efficient thing. It doesn't waste time removing infrastructure after it's done using it. It might serve a purpose later, so it leaves it until it knows for sure that it can't be re-used or needs to be removed so something else can be built in its place.
>>
So will nWoD2.0/God Machine rules still mesh OK with CtL and HtV? I'm too impatient to wait for the updated versions.
>>
>>45079593
>I fully intend to, at some point, have 2 cults devoted to the G-M(under the guise of something else) come to blows, due to conflicting orders from different pieces of C&C Infrastructure and Angels.
See, I don't like this because I feel like that kind of thing makes there be more than one God-Machine. I really do go for the ant metaphor, because ant hives communicate with the individual members in a way that, chaotic as it looks, there's always a greater reason and they never start fighting each other just because.

There's actually a global megacolony of Argentine ants. In the US, Europe, and Japan you have ants that will act aggressive as hell to other ants from the same region but different colonies, but will start grooming each other as if they were from the same hive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_ant#Global_.22mega-colony.22

That's the kind of thing that is definitely the will of the God-Machine.

>>45079630
Hunter more than Changeling, and they released a Hunter rules update in the back of Mortal Remains.
https://a.uguu.se/ntqfoc_MortalRemainsRulesUpdate.pdf
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>>45080058
I like the picture you paint, there. I should have phrased better, I guess; the Angel involved would most definitely Fall in the process of telling his cult to attack the other one, probably because it FEELS that they're about to do something terrible.
>>
>>45080120
Oh, that's definitely something I support. Angels doing crazy shit on their own is great. Interpreting things "uniquely" or deciding you know best is a great Catalyst.
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>>45080058
I'm not that anon, but the thing that you and that anon are both not realizing is that if the GM has two of its own cults fighting each other, it's not an accident. It deliberately gave them conflicting orders.

Why? Good question. What occult matrix might require them to come to blows? That's the kind of shit that keeps Demons up at night.
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>>45080328
>It deliberately gave them conflicting orders.
The God Machine is not perfect or infallible (Demons, for instance) so this might not be the case.
>>
So, if I read 1d4chan right, they renamed nWoD to Chronicles, and have started re-releasing oWoD stuff?

Did Chronicles fare less favorably than Classic, and they are backhandedly admitting it?

Any chance this is going to lead to us getting some new Classic material?
>>
>>45080527
I think you're not getting what I'm saying, as Demons are the perfect example of this.

The core, Flowers of Hell and Heirs to Hell are absolutely littered with speculation about the idea that the Machine is NOT making a mistake by making servants that have the power to fail.

Let's also keep in mind that the "mistakes" the Machine seems to make are never as simple as "forgetting to inform party A about party B" those situations are almost universally implied to be deliberate. The unknown variables are players or other characters resisting its efforts, not its servants that are willingly following orders.

My point is really that the Machine isn't infallible but it's not a fuck up. If two cults are given conflicting orders, it's almost always going to be deliberate, and most often for an outcome that the mortals/demons will have to work hard to uncover.
>>
>>45080636
Paradox bought White Wolf and is going to publish new editions of the Big Three in-house, because they're all oWoD LARPers who want to make more books.

Onyx Path has basically been given the reigns to keep making 20th Anniversary products and Chronicles of Darkness.

The new White Wolf seems like it's gonna be the same old shit except it's not going to take off like it did before, but if you're excited for the same shit repackaged all over again, you're in luck, that's what's happening.
>>
>>45080636

Paradox bought the rights to White Wolf and all of its IPs. Paradox started a new subsidiary, White Wolf Publishing, to utilize the IP. White Wolf, under the creative lead of a famous Nordic LARPer, intends to create a multimedia immersive universe out of it, called the One World of Darkness. There is a trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wewNseVo24

Now here's the thing: if you're planning to create Netflix series and comic books and video games with the property, you can't afford to have two settings under the same name. So, oWoD is now One World of Darkness, and nWoD is now Chronicles of Darkness. White Wolf will produce a fourth edition of the oWoD setting in a multimedia form in house. Onyx Path Productions will continue to make 20th Anniversary Editions of oWoD books, as well as new Chronicles of Darkness books. So not only has there BEEN new Classic material, there's going to be even newer Classic material soon.
>>
>>45080637
>>45080527
I feel that the God-Machine isn't infallible, and IS a fuck up, it's just never an intentional fuck up. It's not "this Angel and that Angel fight" so much as "never put the {end} tag on an order, so pizzas keep getting delivered to the home of a flyman until someone remembers to stop them"
>>
>>45080636
You've been getting new OWoD material, have you been living under a rock? All the X20 stuff that has come out that has expanded the lines and advanced the timeline without being a 'new edition'.

Though now that Paradox owns it, they're planning to do a 4th edition (though it won't be CALLED that, apparently), separate from the X20 lines. It seems like they're going to abandon anything from 2001 onward though; they had a press release where they stated 'a lot has happened since 2001', so the running consensus is that they're going to ignore stuff like Gehenna and such.
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>>45080957
>"never put the {end} tag on an order, so pizzas keep getting delivered to the home of a flyman until someone remembers to stop them"

it'd probably consume more resources to stop and dismantle that infrastructure than to just keep it going until it breaks down

or maybe it breaking down is exactly what the machine wants to happen

it's really impossible to tell from "our scale" if that makes sense

what looks to us like a fuckup might be part of a plan centuries in the making, and when the cultists arrive at just the right time to make it seem like we walked into a trap, they might have just been doing their weekly sweep.

It shouldn't be and isn't distinguishable, whether the Machine "screwed up" or is doing it on purpose. It's inscrutable.
>>
>>45080826
>but if you're excited for the same shit repackaged all over again, you're in luck, that's what's happening.

Aside from buying a half-dozen core rules and supplements off Amazon, playing Bloodlines a billion times, and owning a few of the fiction spinoffs, I actually missed the 'era of oWoD'. I was just getting into tabletop as they were making the transition to nWoD. Or not. 2006ish.

So, for me this will be the first time. Have to admit I'm looking forwards to it, thanks for the info.

>>45080908
>Netflix series and comic books and video games

Oh, wow. So we are not only (perhaps) getting a more coherent/together re-imagining of the classic WoD, we are getting the fluff stuff on the side? Awesome. I'm glad they are going with Classic, as I've never found New all that interesting.

Again, thanks for filling me in.
>>
>>45081015
>it'd probably consume more resources to stop and dismantle that infrastructure than to just keep it going until it breaks down
Just like human infrastructure!
>>
>>45081061

One of the plans for it is to create a coherent oWoD setting, yes. The idea is that every single part of its tie-in will tell an overarching story over all the lines, with a main focus on video games and an international LARPing network. VtM is getting a new edition that ideally will premiere with a new video game, Cyberpunk 2070 style.
>>
>>45081002
>You've been getting new OWoD material, have you been living under a rock?

Pretty much. My group had a tryhard Goth, nice enough guy though, who sort of poisoned them against stuff like WoD before I ever joind them. And they aren't too fond of dice pools. So for me, oWoD has been something I collected in small ways (core books, supplements that interested me) gaming wise, but otherwise I enjoyed the art and fluff separately. I've never had reason to really get invested, even though I know I'd love it.

The idea of it being translated (more often) into other media is exciting for me because it doesn't require my group to be on board.

>All the X20

The what? How can they move the timeline on, when the setting 'ended'? I can imagine expanding, and filling out.

>so the running consensus is that they're going to ignore stuff like Gehenna and such

Ah, that might explain it. That better not include the Demon and Angel stuff. I want to be smote for being a bloodsucker by an avenging Angel in some future video game.
>>
>>45081195
The same way they were going to continue it with VtM4e when it was in OP's hands. Gehenna wasn't as devastating as anticipated, and while it probably radically shifted the way things work, it didn't end the world or even break the masquerade.
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>>45081233

Guess that will work. Huh. Thanks anon. Is there an official site where I can keep an eye on all this? I want in at the start this time, or as close as damnit.
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>>45081195
X20 editions assume the various ends of the world didn't happen. X20 means the 20th Anniversary editions (Vampire, or V20; Werewolf, or W20, etc.)
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>>45081188
>Cyberpunk 2070 style.
Isn't that taking longer to come out than Mage 2e?

>>45081195
>The what? How can they move the timeline on, when the setting 'ended'? I can imagine expanding, and filling out.
The 20th Anniversary Editions are metaplot agnostic. More like nWoD with the oWoD setting. No "timeline". Gehenna happens not in 2004, but whenever you want it to happen. Ravnos and Gangrel are both clans you can be. Salubri are rare, but not "only 7". Things like that.

Also, >>45081002 is possibly wrong. Or at least, Onyx Path WAS going to do VTM4, and their version was going to be post-Gehenna, with Gehenna probably not destroying the world or anything. It's also likely that they'll go with the LARP version, where the Apocalypse was a bust, the Cammies acknowledge the Antes (but believe they'll be benevolent as long as you're all good little vampires). Dracula (That is, Martin Ericsson) is an avid LARPer, after all, and is likely to want to continue with some of that stuff and make it more official.
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>>45081317

http://www.whitewolf-publishing.com/ They've got a newsletter you can sign up for. Also, if you want to see their whole plans for all the WoD properties, there's a 48 minute talk that the new owners give here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEoG8YQrLuE

If you would like more information on the oWoD 20th Anniversary Editions, you can check Onyx Path's website: http://theonyxpath.com/

The One World of Darkness is still in development, since White Wolf only properly came back into being four months ago. Vampire the Masquerade 20th, Werewolf the Apocalypse 20th, Mage the Ascension 20th, and all their currently released splatbooks are available on Drive Thru RPG, or wherever you can procure your pirated content. Changeling the Dreaming 20th has just been Kickstarted, and Wraith the Oblivion 20th is in development.
>>
>>45081355
>>45081439

Aha, I think I see. Is it worth picking up a copy of 20th Edition if I already own an older Masquerade core book?
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>>45081488

Awesome, thank you very much. So I've stumbled on all this at just the right time, more or less.
>>
>>45081490
Yes. It's basically intended to be a greatest hits of everything.

>>45081532
Unless you're a nWoD fan! Then you're fucked because everything is getting shaken up and they changed the name and the books are taking forever.

But if you're an oWoD fan? Sure. There have been quite a few V20 things out like V20, Dark Ages V20, a book of antagonist characters, and I think a fiction book about Beckett; a few W20 things, and M20. Changeling 20th Anniversary recently had it's Kickstarter, and one day eventually some time probably, the Wraith 20th Anniversary book will come out.
>>
>>45081439
Nah, they outright said it wasn't going to be called Vampire the Masquerade 4th Edition in a tweet sometime back.

>>45081490
V20 is a big-ass rules omnibus with some changes to some rules, and some clarifications here, but it pulls primarily from Revised. It's good, especially if you don't have any Revised core(s) or anything like that.
>>
>>45081490

VtM 20 is a comprehensive tome containing all the factions and Disciplines from every version of VtM, with a very small cleanup of the rules. If you want everything all in one place, it's a great purchase. It's also a beautiful book. There is also Dark Ages 20th, I believe, that contains all the Dark Ages material, if you like that stuff too.
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>>45081615
Rather, they tweeted that Paradox is doing it in-house, OPP's plan for it seems essentially scrapped from how OPP talks about it, and Paradox tweeted it won't be called Vampire the Masquerade 4th Edition/V4.
>>
>>45081610

>Unless you're a nWoD fan! Then you're fucked because everything is getting shaken up and they changed the name and the books are taking forever.

It's not that bad. At least we know things are actually being made, as opposed to the big long stretch of almost nothing before OPP's founding. Also the book about Beckett isn't out yet.
>>
>>45081643
>>45081615
Oh, darn. I assumed they'd keep that part. It was slightly interesting to me. So what is Dracula going to do? I feel like he'd want to continue with the LARP stuff, or at the very least keep the old metaplot stuff.

>>45081686
I'm slightly interested in Beckett's Jyhad Diary. But at the same time after playing Bloodlines Beckett doesn't seem as cool to me as he did just knowing about VtM stuff. He's a Noddist who doesn't believe in Caine. That just makes him seem ignorant when the game books go ON and ON about the Antedeluvians.

And yeah, it's true, it is better to know stuff is being made even if it's slow. But it's also a really confusing time, and as someone trying to get friends into the WoD, it's really difficult because I need so many different books. I keep harping on the layout, but that's another thing. A lot of CofD stuff requires flipping back and forth, and that kind of thing is confusing to a new player.
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>>45081900
They haven't released anything else concrete, so a lot of it is speculation. But, the speculation seems to run...
* Based on the 'a lot has happened since 2001' tweet, they're going to gut a lot of the post-Revised stuff that leads to Gehenna
* Update to the modern times
* Have LARP events help decide the future of the metaplot (from the way By Night Studios' LARP stuff is written, though, it doesn't seem like they'll be using BNS's LARP metaplot, which is post-Gehenna/post-Apocalypse where the ends of the world started, then staggered and petered out).

Concrete stuff they HAVE stated...
* A Euro-centric focus move
* LARP events helping to decide major things happening in the metaplot
* THey want to do a big brand push for all their cross-media, including video games, TV/netflix, comics and other stuff
* THey want to go back to traditional brick-and-mortar publishing and plan to build their book model around that.
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>>45081900

They're going to change some metaplot stuff. A few days ago, DavidH was talking about how they're cutting soul eaters out of V20 Black Hand.
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>>45082001
>>45082142
Huh. I'm kind of interested in this. Do you think they'll essentially "reboot" WoD?
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>>45082246
the fact that you haven't taken that from all of this is astounding
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>>45082267
If you count 'ignore things from 2001 onward' a 'reboot' then yes. Otherwise, it's going to be their post-revised continuation.
>>
So, if they are basically ignoring everything after 2001, I guess that means Demon: the Fallen is gone too? Published 2002, after all.
>>
>>45077947
>if you have a dicepool high enough

That's how GUMSHOE does it; if you have the relevent skill, then you know the thing, no roll needed.
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>>45082310
Yeah. Now to decide if I want to build a big-ass lore list or just on the fly it.
>>
If you could pitch a supplement to Onyx Path, what would it be?
>>
I've read every Rage across the World supplement and I still don't know what is the situation in Greenland.
Any clues for WtA? Is it a Wendigo territory? Danish settlers cont as Get of Fenris or Gleaming Eye House Silver Fangs?
>>
>>45082267
Considering none of what they've said is about rebooting it, and considering much of the reason Europe hates nWoD is because it was a reboot...

>>45082290
>>45082294
I'm wondering if they'll do something similar to the V20 updates with everything being "metaplot agnostic", do an overhaul of the rules (I wouldn't be surprised if the One World of Darkness has a system closer to nWoD, because oWoD was kind of a fucking mess mechanically, and I'd at least hope they do a better job at making the powers flow better) and basically start from scratch with a sort of "this is 2018 Masquerade in the world of the internet" and then use that starting point as a basis for their LARP and Netflix and comic book shit.
>>
>>45082484
I doubt they'll do metaplot-agnostic; they can't do their advancing mass model without it, and Dracula said he's a fan of the concept and ideas behind the metaplot.
>>
>>45082484
The big question is how are Power Levels going to end up.
It seem like the objective is to do something more easy to use for crossovers so, are they nerfing mages? Changing disciplines?
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>>45082338

I wouldn't because they have too much shit that they need to finish before they get starry eyed about future projects.
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>>45082505

That worries me, because I really like the religious ties, and that demons and angels are part of the setting, if not as big as others obviously. LARPers are obviously going to be leery of beings that heavily outpower everything else, so I might never get to see angels int he setting again, and demons imply the apocalypse they don't want.

Saying that, they can't escape that much of the vampire lore is built on the idea that Genesis occured in some form, so I suppose I can always make material from Demon and Time of Judgement fit in whatever they come up with. My group very rarely uses company-made metaplots anyway.
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>>45082544

I would hope not. There is nothing inherently wrong with a power imbalance. Other mediums make it work; gamers just don't like their special snowflakes to be weaker than that of another players, and I don't feel that should be a big concern for the game creators. If you really want balance in a campaign, the GM can just bar certain things.
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>>45082505
Nah, I mean starting from a groundwork of "nothing from the past matters as much, but what YOU do from now on will".

Where YOU means "Swedish LARPers and characters on the TV show".

>>45082544
"Nerfing" doesn't really need to be the issue, they really just need to codify things better. A lot of the Disciplines are basically "do X, do Y, do Z, do X better, do FUCKYOU". But that's a really silly way of handling things.

I mean, I'm not a VtM fan. But I ran into that kind of thing a lot when I was trying to make a VtR2e version of the Tzimisce. A lot of their powers aren't actually all that great, they don't have many detailed rules, and their capstone power is "the last dot, but you can fly". Many of the 6+ Disciplines aren't even all that impressive and would be fine at lower levels if only they weren't forced into being ranked 1 to 5(or 10).

I mean, I realized that your average Gangrel basically gets Chiropteran Behemoth form in Requiem already at four dots of Protean.

>>45082614
I feel like this is a dumb argument. It's sort of addressing the complaints, but just barely, and not addressing the actual issues. People treat "power imbalance" as if it means "Alice can do more damage than Bob", but that's not really what the issue is. The issue is "Carter's character does more damage than Alice AND can do everything Bob is good at faster".

Power imbalance in roleplaying games means making sure that in a properly sized group no one is mechanically or narratively useless.
>>
>>45082338

A guide to being the head of organizations. Pretty much every splat has some variation of "you run a cult," yet only Mummy bothers to go into it in any depth whatsoever.

>>45082564

Good answer.
>>
>tfw you hate oWoD except for Wraith and the Technocracy
>tfw you don't get why people cling to edgy racist garbage bogged down with terrible rules and 20+ years of baggage
>>
>>45082580
Why do you think they'll pull out the religious ties and strip out that stuff? That stuff has been in there since day one; they can't strip it out without removing things that make Vampires in Masquerade, Vampires in Masquerade. It just means that noone has been smote by an angel yet and the ancients aren't waking up. LARP games even in the big organizations have big stuff like that go down, and with them pushing the metaplot-defined-by-LARP aspect (probably done via convention games), it would keep with how past convention games have gone.
>>
>>45082726

I'm afraid new White Wolf is going to pander to the CLANS SHOULD BE RACIST STEREOTYPES IMPALE BABIES ON SPIKES AND SAY FUCK A LOT BECAUSE THE WORLD OF DARKNESS IS DARK retard crowd.
>>
>>45082726
> The issue is "Carter's character does more damage than Alice AND can do everything Bob is good at faster".

And in Batman, Bruce can do everything that Robin can do, mechanically, and is strong. In the Justice League we have characters that can do everything others can, but better. In Supernatural you have a main cast with humans... and an Angel of the Lord.

I take your point, but in my eyes roleplaying is supposed to be more about the narrative and role playing than the crunch. More powerful players should be respectful enough to not do 'everything' just because they can. And it's also the GMs job to run things in such a way that everyone gets a slice. After all, you can be a super-ranger like Aragorn, or a maiar like Gandalf, but a good writer has room and ideas for Frodo... or even Sam, Merry and Pippin.

There is no such thing as 'narratively' useless, just crappy DMs and players. And mechanically? I find nothing more irritating when it comes time to enter somewhere dangerous than to have another player ask 'so... who has the highest spot/listen average? They should go first'.

So, rather than a dumb argument, perhaps just a different way of looking at things?
>>
>>45082773

True. It just seems like religious themes these days are like kryponite to some people. I'm wary of having my hopes dashed.
>>
>>45082859
>And in Batman, Bruce can do everything that Robin can do, mechanically, and is strong. In the Justice League we have characters that can do everything others can, but better. In Supernatural you have a main cast with humans... and an Angel of the Lord.
Batman and Robin are a team, but Robin (the less skilled and strong) is a sidekick, not an equal partner.
And Castiel's a himbo.

Most player groups aren't going to have someone be cheerful at being the sidekick, or willingly gimp their character just so he could be a stronger cannon for better characters.
>>
>>45082768
>Complaining about oWoD
>Liking the Technocracy

>>45082821
I'm more worried that they'll go for the silly over the top stuff more than the racism stuff. After all, Europe is more sensitive about that stuff than the US for the most part, and doesn't treat it as a horrible affront to their freedom of speech when someone says "hey, let's be less racist", even if Europe is also a lot more culturally homogenous in any individual area. Taking out the "Soul Eaters" also might imply a less "hurrrr" version of the Sabbat that isn't all about eating babies and whatnot.

>>45082859
You're right, roleplaying is about the narrative and roleplaying more than the crunch. But the mechanics do inform the roleplay. And when you're playing a game together, you don't WANT one person to be Bruce Wayne and everyone else to be sidekicks. Even when you do have games like that, they generally have mechanics specifically designed to facilitate that sort of "these are the sidekicks" character archetypes. Even in Batman, when written well, you have characters who do what Bruce can't, offering different perspectives and skill sets. I mean, think of how much trouble Supernatural goes to to make sure that Castiel doesn't just solve all the problems by putting his hands on the bad guy's forehead and burning their soul.

People want to be equal members of the story. They want to be Sam or Dean, not have Castiel take all the challenge out of something. And a lot of D&D's problems come from trying to emulate the Lord of the Rings set up.

>>45083213
>And Castiel's a himbo.
Castiel is a cinnamon roll.
>>
>>45083213

>Batman and Robin are a team, but Robin (the less skilled and strong) is a sidekick, not an equal partner.

You sure about that? Robin takes down people just as well in the long term, and brings things to that table that Batman doesn't. They may have equal combat power, but they get the same amount of spotlight time. Combat ability isn't the end all be all of balance. That's really the problem with the whole argument: when we're talking about game balance, we're actually talking about three or four different things wrapped up in a single word.
>>
>>45079000
Sure, but even then it can be surprised by infrastructure suddenly appearing that it didn't create.
>>
>>45083351
>They may have equal combat power,
They don't.
>but they get the same amount of spotlight time.
That's a joke, right? There's way more Batman movies than Robin movies, way more Batman comics than Robin, and they've only started sharing the title recently.
>>
>>45083351
>That's really the problem with the whole argument: when we're talking about game balance, we're actually talking about three or four different things wrapped up in a single word.
It's not a problem, >>45083213
>>45083302
they both made it clear. Unbalancing means someone has the skills of a sidekick, whether or not they want to play one.
>>
>>45083302

Eh. Not weighing in either way re: Paradox. But, I disagree that Europe is more sensitive. Have you seen the backlash when people dare to say that maybe Charlie Hebdo should be a little less racist sometimes?

Largely, they blame "US PC culture".

Now, on White Wolf changes specifically, I don't know the purpose for removing Souleaters. But there are some sweeping changes that were less word-intensive, but hugely implication intensive, IMO.

For example, one of the Storyteller Characters in Black Hand was a vampire who died and became a wraith. This of course was always a thing. If any of you might remember, Wraith was originally advertised as a way to keep playing your Vampire/other PC after dying.

Now, vampires cannot become wraiths at all, unless they've achieved Golconda. Which changes a few references in post. In this specific instance, it means we have a character in that book who has objectively reached Golconda. No ambiguity. No nothing. I think that's a big deal.

Also, they made me change references - even figurative ones - to vampires potentially having souls. Now, Vampire characters objectively do not have souls. And souls, according to the new White Wolf, are Eidolons. Which you might be familiar with as a trait.

I personally think that has immense impact on the game. Unprecedented, even.

So yeah. There will be some big changes. Some bigger than others. I'm curious how they plan to do some of this.
>>
>>45083565

And as a slight clarification:

Vampires objectively do not have souls, unless they've achieved Golconda. So I guess Golconda will be a process by which a vampire gets a soul.

Which is weird to me.
>>
>>45083565

Huh, I actually really, really hate that. Reminds me too much of the whole 'soul' argument on Buffy and Angel. Playing as an effectively empty vessel utterly destroys any interest I would have had in playing as a vampire. I could have dealt with ambiguity, could lead to some interesting roleplay, but objectively being souless? Bleh.
>>
>>45083619
>ould have had in playing as a vampire. I could have dealt with ambiguity, could lead to some interesting roleplay, but objectively being souless? Bleh.
>implying you play
>>
>>45083351
It's important to note that "Robin" is no less than five people at this point (Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Damian Wayne). Tim at least is possibly a better detective than Bruce, and Dick is certainly saner and more level headed. Damian is probably also a better fighter, even if he's only 10 or whatever and doesn't have the strength to back that up. No one really has the same "combat ability" as Bruce, though, and ultimately most of the time the comics portray him as so hyper competent that the others can't keep up. This isn't even touching on the more extended members of the Bat Family, either: Question, Batgirl, BatWoman, Black Bat, Bat Wing, Ace, Spoiler, Huntress, Catwoman, Bluebird... and anyone I'm forgetting.

The problem is that more often than not, Batman is presented as not NEEDING these people. The Court of Owls is cool and all, but Batman more or less brings down the Court by himself, and everyone else got their own Night of Owls storyline where they dealt with the aftermath. When everyone else DOES get their own screentime, it's in events like Batman Eternal, or Bad Blood, where the whole plot is all about everyone else filling in for the work that Bruce did alone.

>>45083413
For what it's worth, everyone should watch the Batman and Robin animated movies, starting with Son of Batman, and Batman vs Robin. Writing this post reminds me I need to see Bad Blood.
>>
I've never played Mage, so excuse this question.

What can they do with Time? Could they send a piece of paper back in time?
>>
>>45083789

Which Mage, the Classic World of Darkness Mage: The Ascension or the newer Chronicles of Darkness Mage: The Awakening?
>>
>>45083789
>Could they send a piece of paper back in time?
Yeah
>>
>>45083565
>Vampire characters objectively do not have souls

So why does infernalism exist, then? Nothing for a demon to gain from a soulless pact.

Jesus, this is terrible.
>>
>>45083603
>>45083565

Wait, wait wait. How the fuck does Diablerie work then? Diablerie is specifically sucking a soul out of a Vampire!
>>
>>45083884
In vtR they have souls.
In vtM you're sucking out their curse
>>
>>45083884
In Masquerade you just steal their power, not their soul.
>>
>>45083879

Good question.

I do know that they want to pull hard away from demons. I had to cut any explicit references to demons. Which, if you know Black Hand, you should know is pretty damned hard.

Not just that, but the Black Hand doesn't actually know what a demon is, now. What they call demons, and what a large part of their cult has focused on for thousands of years is more an... umbrella term for "quasi-biblical entities, Lovecraftian demigods, and vedic spirits" in their words.

>>45083884

I don't know yet. They didn't actually ask me to change any of the diablerie-based content in the book, ironically.
>>
>>45083926
>>45083902

Wiki says that the soul's devoured: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Diablerie_%28VTM%29

It doesn't seem like it's much different from the Requiem version. Is it a Revised vs 1e/2e thing?
>>
>>45083926

Except multiple Masquerade books have literally had rules for a diablerie victim's soul possessing the diablerist.

It's one of the most important Gehenna plots.
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>>45083941
Book says power.
>>
>>45083902
>In vtR they have souls.
>In vtM you're sucking out their curse

I believe in V:tR the question of whether vampires have souls is maybe, possibly, and if so, they're very damaged.
>>
>>45083938

It's shit before it's even out the door.

At least they aren't fucking with the CofD.
>>
>>45083977

Depends on the book.
>>
>>
>>45083938

Wait, what the fuck?
>>
>>45083938

Huh. I'm gonna put on my speculation hat here and take a guess that this it so that Infernalists are compatible with Mage's Nephandi. They might be saving full on traditional demons for if/then they roll out their version of Demon: The Fallen. For now, I could see them making changes so that the Big Three play nice with each other in terms of cosmology.
>>
>>45083565
Huh. I know there are some issues that the EU has when it comes to immigrants (and it's not just Charlie Hebdo, you've got the sniper from that Nordic country that for the life of me I can't remember as well), but most of my European friends find Americans to be really racist and homophobic compared to their enlightened socialist utopias.

>And souls, according to the new White Wolf, are Eidolons. Which you might be familiar with as a trait.
I don't know what that means.

I really hope this doesn't go back to the whole "vampires have no feelings or emotions at all except for BLOOD.

>>45083619
You don't need to be an empty vessel.
>>
>>45084003
You're thinking of the answer, and it's not even a question in Requiem
>>
>>45084030

I'm right here, dumbass.
>>
>>45083938

Aw, no. This is what I was talking about earlier when I worried about the future hope of Demon the Whatever, and supplements dealing with other bibilical beings/creatures.

I suppose I might have to give this new WoD a miss, it's sounding like they are making the same mistakes that nWoD did. Some of this stuff might be considered details by some, but it all comes together to create that 'feeling' that the Classic World of Darkness had.

Man, my hype is dying more each little reveal. None the less, thanks for telling what you can David, better I lose interest now than pay out money to be upset later.
>>
>>45084050

The soul question arises in the CofD largely because of its importance to Mage cosmology, but it's definitely in all or most of the game lines.
>>
>>45084042
>They might be saving full on traditional demons for if/then they roll out their version of Demon: The Fallen.

Maybe, or they could have decided that they have no place in the setting, and to tone down the biblical imagery. I'll keep an eye on all this in hope that this isn't the case, but I suspect otherwise. At least the oWoD books aren't going to combust retroactively.
>>
>>45084059

If it's any consolation, the 20th Anniversary editions are more or less the same setting, just with more content in the books. In particular I think the V20 line's been pretty solid. I hope the 20th Anniversary series continues, I'd like to see Greg Stolze take a crack at Demon the Fallen 20th. Also I'd like to see him do another Requiem novel now that Second Edition is out. I'd just love a new CofD novel in general, really.
>>
>>45084042

I have no real basis for saying this, but if I had to speculate, I'm assuming the same thing. If only because they chose to use the word "Eidolon". That, to me, is a really charged and telling choice.
>>
>>45084144

I hope we don't have to wait until 2024 for Demon.
>>
I hope the fanbase doesn't blame the WOD writers and developers for any sudden, odd or jarring changes demanded by Paradox to the source material.

It's a shame Paradox didn't simply wait to incorporate the larger setting ideas and alterations into their soon to be released in-house 4th editions.

I'm also curious if Paradox intends to hire any of the current WOD authors to write for the 4th editions.
>>
>>45084172
>I'm also curious if Paradox intends to hire any of the current WOD authors to write for the 4th editions.
Probably not if they keep leaking things on 4chan
>>
>>45084197

AmyV is not a *current* WOD author.
>>
>>45084160

who was this directed at?
>>
>>45084197

Actually, have there been any real leaks? I heard there were leaks a while ago, but I never really cared enough to look into it. I want to say Beast had some leak issues? But again, I don't know. I think I just heard that in passing. I was only a writer for Beast, so it wasn't a big deal for me.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm doing open development. I try to explain my choices and let people in on the design process as much as I can. To me, this is doubly important when you've started a precedent. I've shared the actual outline my writers worked from for V20 Black Hand, and a handful of the drafts. When the book comes out, people will be able to see where the differences are. "We just changed it" isn't particularly open development.

So far, we've been encouraged and supported in developing openly. I do it more than some developers. But I'm very glad that I can be open and honest with fans. I don't miss the times when I couldn't be. I also think that it's great that Onyx Path lets developers take charge of that, and determine just what and how things get shared on their books.

I hope Paradox continues that tradition. I hope they see that by and large, it's been a really positive thing to engage the fanbase and let them behind the curtain.
>>
>>45084260

The "speculation hat" poster. I don't know about whether or not they're going to make infernalists and Nephandi compatible. But I could see that line of reasoning.
>>
>>45084172

Well, in all honesty, I don't think I care enough to throw any blame anywhere. As annoyed as I am right now, I'll likely just shrug my shoulders, and stick with the original oWoD books if a lot of this pans out as I suspect it will. They just lose my interest and money; not a big deal to them, but if I'm not alone it may bite them. I may even change my mind if they do bring Demon the Fallen back in. So it can have a happy ending.

Thing is, aside from the spinoff stuff (and let's face it, Bloodlines is really the only success story when it comes to peripherals, and only originally as a cult game - Troika died), this is a series of RPG books. The originals are no less relevant than they were when released, and aren't going anywhere. RPG books aren't like others stuff where updates are 'better'. People still prefer some ancient systems today over more modern versions. D&D 4th Ed, I'm looking at you.
>>
>>45084314

I think the main leaks were Beast and Exalted.

But back on topic, I'm really hoping Paradox meddles as little as possible. I honestly didn't think they had any creative control over X20, but that seems to be the case. Onyx Path has been doing a fine job; I don't see a need to change things, other than maybe getting releases out a little quicker.
>>
>>45084165
>we'll have a Kickstarter for Demon before Wraith comes out
>>
>>45084411
Funny way to spell Mage.
>>
>>45084436

We'll have Mage before March is over.

I didn't think Dreams of Avarice was gonna be as early as it was, and yet here we are. Releases are speeding back up with Paradox in the saddle; Wraith is just going slow because Dansky isn't fucking writing it.
>>
>>45084359
>Bloodlines is really the only success story when it comes to peripherals,

Hold on, surely you're forgetting Kindred the Embraced...
>>
>>45084044

There's two Eidolons, one in Wraith, and one in Mage. One's a Background that lets you make a "higher" version of yourself to overcome your Shadow. The other is another term for an Avatar's Essence in Mage, basically what kind of state they're in.

That both of these terms refer to the higher nature of the soul should be telling.

This leaves me with some questions, though. Vampires don't have Souls, but quest to regain them through the path of Golconda. If Paradox hasn't changed Mages dramatically, they do have Souls, because they need them for magic (perhaps the reason Souls are Eidolons is because this higher nature is a proto-Avatar in a Sleeper?). What about Werewolves then? Do they have full on Souls, and if so how will their half-spirit nature play into it?

March and the first One World of Darkness LARP can't come fast enough. I don't know if I'll dig the new cosmology once its revealed, but I'll admit that this discussion has me intrigued. I knew from that start that there'd have to be some serious changes to the oWoD cosmology to make a One World of Darkness work, and if this all doesn't just turn out to be a wild goose chase, it looks like they're willing to make those changes come hell or high water.
>>
>>45084534

Kek, oh, yes. How could I forget.
>>
>>45083879
>>45083938
>>45083941
>>45083953
>>45084021
>>45084003
I feel like the whole "soul" thing when it comes to Diablerie is a vague and poetic term, not necessarily "A SOUL". I mean, it's similar to "Demon".
>>
>>45084583

Never forget: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxLQO4k_GQ

The fact that there was a time when Aaron fucking Spelling wanted to do a TV show based on a Role Playing Game and that it actually happened is still amazing. I still think about the alternate universe where Kindred: The Embraced took off and how different things would be.
>>
>>45084652

To be fair, if you cross Time of Judgement's Hunter and Demon scenarios, and make some sort of horrific chimera out of Classic World and Chronicles of Darkness, you basically get Supernatural.

With how popular Supernatural still is, I'm actually surprised they are seemingly distancing them from souls and demons in the biblical sense. It's not like people don't recognize and enjoy the imagery.
>>
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>pugmire
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>>45084781
Be a good dog
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>>45084890
>>
>>45084059
>>45082893
>>45084111
>It just seems like religious themes these days are like kryponite to some people.
What?
It seems like every Urban Fantasy setting eventually gets overtaken by Angels and Demons, and the father of all Vampires is literally a character from the Bible. Hell, several biblical terms show up in Vampire The Masquerade.

>>45084359
You can check the tail end of the last thread for my feelings on Bloodlines. The last third of that game sinks like a neonate tied to a sarcophagus.

>>45084652
Didn't it really only fail because the lead actor died?

>>45084742
The reason I think that a WoD show could work is because we're at an unprecedented level of urban fantasy these days.
>>
In Mage (Awakening), if a mage wanted to cast a spell that allowed him to understand First Tongue, what Arcana would be required, Mind and/or Spirit?
>>
>>45084923
>It seems like every Urban Fantasy setting eventually gets overtaken by Angels and Demons

Then I've been going to all the wrong parties. I'd really appreciate as many examples as you can think of, because I like collecting this stuff.

>The last third of that game sinks like a neonate tied to a sarcophagus.

Heh. Agreed. That said, it doesn't ruin the rest of the game for me, just means I prep for it. And I love the Tremere special ending. A shame a Tremer playing is likely to outlive his usefulness soon. The sorrow of being sired outside the pyramid.
>>
>>45084923

The show was canceled in May, and the actor who played the Prince died in September. It seems like it was just regular cancelled, as opposed to not being able to go on.
>>
Newbie vamp player here, we're playing in oWoD and I've picked tremere. Only previous experience is through the bloodlines vidya, is there a path similar to the blood projectile thing that you get in the vidya? Or was that an over the top addition for the game?
>>
>>45085145

Hm. interested myself.
>>
>>45084957

Just Spirit 1. I think that's literally an example spell, even.
>>
>>45084988
>Then I've been going to all the wrong parties. I'd really appreciate as many examples as you can think of, because I like collecting this stuff.
Supernatural, Dresden Files, there's also literally a bunch of stuff with Nephilim characters, like Mortal Instruments. Remy Chandler is an angel PI (I didn't like the sample in the Mean Streets anthology, though). Colbana Files is about a Nephilim. You can even read one of the shorts here http://www.tor.com/2010/07/19/a-stroke-of-dumb-luck/

There's plenty of series about that stuff. Not to mention World of Darkness, and how both the original and new decided they needed to up the Angel factor.

>That said, it doesn't ruin the rest of the game for me, just means I prep for it.
I hated it. I wanted to play a character who used melee and sneaking and lots of social, but that basically meant nothing at the end. I also hated the combat. I ended up just noclipping through the levels and avoiding the slog of enemies. Got the Independent ending, but even then I felt like the story made no sense.

>>45085022
Oh. Huh, I'd heard it actually did well.
>>
>>45083659
>It's important to note that "Robin" is no less than five people at this point
Correction: There are now about a thousand Robins. "Robin" is now a Hunter Compact.
>>
Let me tell you about this comic I'm reading that is TOTALLY WoD related
>>
>>45085478

So you're reading the Moonstone Vampire the Masquerade comics? How are they?
>>
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Actually, come to think of it, a Compact based on We Are... Robin or just the "Real Life Superhero Movement" in general would be pretty cool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-life_superhero

>>45085478
Let me tell you about how I TOTALLY hate people talking about WoD inspiration!

I'm not even reading We Are Robin. Or Batman. Even though I should be, since I'm running a game inspired by Batman and plan to use plotlines straight out of the current comics.

I have no idea why it irritates you so much when I make a suggestion about something people can draw inspiration from. You act like I'm going on about how "this is totally a WoD game", when I'm not. I'm saying "this is a good thing you can get inspiration from". Just like everyone else does. You've got people talking about how Supernatural is a mash up of nWoD and oWoD Hunter, and the thread starter is someone who even outright says they aren't me saying they've been binging on Person of Interest for inspiration for Demon.

I have no idea why you keep getting a bug up your ass.

>>45085525
Huh. That was a thing.
>>
>>45085387
You know, I had a thought a while ago that a not-Bruce Wayne secretly funding bands of righteous vigilantes all over the world and equipping them with bat-gadgets with which to fight slashers and supernatural criminals would make a good Hunter Conspiracy.
>>
>>45085548

There's a bunch of Moonstone oWoD comics that we don't talk about. I wonder if there's going to be some legal issue about selling those on Drive Thru Comics now that Paradox has the rights. Given how Valiant's been with DTC through thick and thin, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up doing WoD comics if they want to do something other than their superhero stuff for a bit. Realistically though, it'll probably end up being done by IDW if new WoD/CofD comics happen at all.
>>
How do the Social Chase rules in CofD core end?

Chase says if you catch your prey you get a free action before initiative, eg. an attack. How is that modelled in the social option, you make a Manipulation+Empathy (for example) roll vs. Resolve?

Or would they be treated as you having just opened their last door and they automatically move to the option to Go with it / offer alternative?
>>
>>45085687
Why would there be issues?
>>
>>45085548
Bum ba dum bum bum bum bum
>>
>>45085715
What?
>>
>>45085710

Moonstone made those comics years and years ago, back before White Wolf merged with CCP and became a Paradox Interactive subsidiary. I'd be amazed if the original contract that made the comics possible gave the WoD comic rights away forever, especially if White Wolf wants to do One World of Darkness comics.
>>
>>45085771
If they published them, then it's unlikely that they'll no longer be able to sell them.
>>
Was thinking as fluffing the BPRD and the FEAR unit for a campaign where a mysterious organization who has captured several ENE's and are using them against their own kind. Would the two groups be Conspiracy or Compacts?
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>>45085880
Didn't know whether to go with this or Suicide Squad, but I don't know if I have any suicide squad images on my computer.

Also, I think Taskforce VALKYRIE is the group most likely to ASSEMBLE TASK FORCE X.
https://youtu.be/-EuwFw-7ke0
>>
>>45085145
I guess this doesn't really exist then? Or if it does it's in a splatbook obscure enough to not be common knowledge.
>>
>>45085967
Can't Tremere straight up shoot fireballs?
>>
>>45086024
Sort of, but that's kind of a "lol everybody dies now" approach
>>
>>45083834
I hope we can get someone to do a pdf like this for 2e, if it ever comes out.
>>
>>45086113
I hope we don't NEED a PDF like that.
>>
>>45084396
Didn't the Exalted leak happen on rpg.net?
>>
>>45084456
People have also said "We'll have Mage by Halloween" and "We'll have Mage before the end of the year."
Don't get your dreams up kiddo.
>>
>>45084923
>It seems like every Urban Fantasy setting eventually gets overtaken by Angels and Demons, and the father of all Vampires is literally a character from the Bible. Hell, several biblical terms show up in Vampire The Masquerade.

Angels, and lovecraftian entities. But otherwise I agree.
>>
>>45086129
Considering how free-form the magic system seems like it'll be, it'd be neat to have small, separate document to summarize it.
Although it would be nice if it was a cheat sheet, rather than a necessary crutch.
>>
>>45086161
More often the Angels ARE the Lovecraftian entities.

>>45086172
Like I said, hopefully we won't need that. The whole system is being streamlined as far as what a Mage can and can't do, so hopefully the differences with what Practices there are at each level is all that's necessary.

That said if Mage is anything like the other 2e releases (or any WoD release) it'll still need a cheat sheet. I'm still working on writing up a Werewolf one myself.
>>
Do spirits apply their defense against attacks which they aren't aware of?
>>
>>45086274
No, noone does.

But try to beat a Spirit's perception without being one...
>>
>>45086274
Spirits follow the same rules for Defence as anyone else does, except if otherwise noted in a Numina or other unique power.
>>
>>45086396
...aaaaaand of course they can apply their Defence against firearms which is a fairly significant standard difference to normal Defence rules. Sorry, I lemoned and forgot that.
>>
>>45086396
Well, except for the part where they apply their defense to pretty much all attacks, which....why is that? I don't really get why all spirits get defense against firearms in addition to taking only bashing.
>>
>>45086454
I know I asked Dave to change spirits so that guns were no longer the best tool a werewolf could find against them. Not sure how much that fed into the final spirit rewrite for the new edition.
>>
>>45078115
Then how would the God-Machine inveigle its symbols into human religions, the better to use the faithful as pawns when visited by its angels?
>>
>>45086502
Guns are still pretty decent, though the only real difference in using a gun/weapon now is that you have to be "Good" at guns, where as before you could rely on those 5 combined dots of firearms and dex because there was no resistance against it.
>>
>>45086454
>>45086502

The reflexes, speed and durability of ephemera, materialized or not, is not comparable to or similarly limited as human biology. Permitting spirits to apply their defense against firearms and only take bashing damage is how the rules and mechanics of the CofD recognize this fact without unduly complicating the system (as well as likely providing some game balance and other narrative fixes).
>>
So. I have a villain for a vampire/inferno story coming up. He'll be granted a few dots of Influence: Wrath.
This is endgame stuff. But I'm still not certain of how much I should give the guy.
Also, what synergy, if any, should it have with Frenzy?
>>
Main thing is that I no longer need to worry about shotguns and automatics being far and away superior options *for werewolves* against warped and hellish reflections spewing into reality from an otherworld.

>>45086731
What *is* the villain? What is his role? What do you want him to be able to go toe-to-toe with and what level of impact should his personal power have (as opposed to networks, connections, allies etc). That should dictate what level of Influence you give him.

A villain who can manipulate wrath to fan its flames in his targets needs to cause that anger in the first place; he needs to get in there, get personal, *know* the triggers and things that are going to trigger the spark that he can then fan into an inferno. He's a personal villain who is going to be getting under the skin of his foes, using everything about them to get his way.

A villain who walks into court and Mass Creates extreme wrath to turn the place into a raging catastrophe is working on a very different level. He's a force of nature; fighting him involves the terrifying prospect of having to avoid even getting his attention before he dunks your brain and Beast into raw hateonium with a moment's thought.
>>
>>45086830
>Main thing is that I no longer need to worry about shotguns and automatics being far and away superior options *for werewolves* against warped and hellish reflections spewing into reality from an otherworld.

You appear to have forgotten the great value of FETISH firearms and talon ammunition.

Any self-respecting werewolf in the 21st Century should have some, at any least red-blooded, Second Amendment-loving American werewolf.
>>
Does the 2e core book just not have any rules about stabilizing characters in the field who are bleeding out from filling up their boxes with lethal damage?

Is that just missing?

The second paragraph is also confusing, since it should be only describing the one-minute-interval field care, not hospitals, but at first glance it seems to, since long-term care was also mentioned in the first paragraph for some reason instead of exclusively in the 3rd onward.

At least they removed that strange "you can only heal one extra point of bashing damage per day via first aid" rule from 1e, which was practically pointless since you can heal four bashing damage in an hour anyway.
>>
>>45086897
I haven't forgotten about them, I wrote the rules for them ;)
>>
>>45086992
Core 1e has stuff about stabilization, but it's vague and contradicts itself with its own example("must accumulate seven successes to stop the flow of blood"?), and doesn't define how long 'stabilized' lasts.
>>
>>45087027
I think the most coherent version of the Medicine rules I read so far was in Innocents. It also waves away and simplifies hospitals as always succeeding once per day, which is the likely outcome anyway short of a post-apocalypse where it has a shitty dicepool.
>>
>>45086992
Stabilizing someone who's acutely bleeding out sounds like something best served by an instant medicine roll, rather than some special rules affair or extended roll (with a penalty proportionate to the environment and wounds, obviously). This would just stop them from dying, the healing/followup treatment would have to be done separately.
>>
>>45086502
>>45086579
Guns are always going to be great even against things that apply Defense against them because guns still give you plenty of range. If a Spirit has 8 defense it's still better to use a gun because you don't get smacked by that Spirit after you shoot it (unless it has Blast).

>>45087105
Iunno, the race against the clock the 1e rules seem to suggest (get 7 successes while they're still bleeding out) seems good.

Either way, the bleed out time is one of those things where if I were making WoD or felt like it was important enough, I'd homebrew it to be longer between intervals. I'd also make Bashing take longer to heal.
>>
>>45087172
Not so great for a werewolf though, due to the way the rest of the Uratha powerset meshes primarily with Brawl and Weaponry attacks, as well as more ways to augment Strength than Dexterity.

Most werewolves don't *want* to be at range.
>>
>>45087172
>(get 7 successes while they're still bleeding out)
They don't say that. The example says that, the rules contradict it with

>A patient who's bleeding to death or in a coma is stabilized if one success is achieved on the roll.

The Innocents version strikes a better balance between tension of oh god I might fuck this up/ I need a few minutes of not being mauled by koala-bears, while giving you a decent chance of success if indeed you are not mauled by koala bears.

One success to temporarily-stabilize for seven minutes, seven successes to stabilize for a few hours on your trek back to the protective light of civilization.
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>>45087196
True, but sometimes the security is better than getting to tear into something animalistic. After all, the Lodge of Gargoyles exists.

>>45087229
Well the version in the example sounds good.
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>>45087196
>Most werewolves don't *want* to be at range.

That's the job of the wolf-blooded pack members with the 12 gauge shotguns and silver slugs.
>>
>>45082484
Chronicles of Darkness is not a reboot.
>>
Anyone have any advice for the new Investigation system? Can I get a quick overview of it?

>>45087504
It kind of is. No more than Revised, but no one is talking about that in the first place. nWoD was a reboot of the World of Darkness. I'm saying that Dracula might "reboot" the oWoD and change a lot of concepts around. Heck, he might effectively do for oWoD what Chronicles of Darkness is doing for nWoD.
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>>45082484
>reason Europe hates nWoD

Wait what, we do?
>>
>>45087535
Every European fan of nWoD I've met has complained that everyone else on the continent hates that oWoD ended and wants nothing to do with nWoD and how they can never find a game around them and how hobby stores hated nWoD and how it has such a poor reputation. I've heard people from Poland, Germany, Belgium, and a few other people all say similar things.
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>>45087533
It's not kind of either. It's a completely separate setting.
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>>45087589
>In serial fiction, to reboot means to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate its characters, timeline and backstory from the beginning.[1][2] The term is used with respect to various different forms of fictional media such as comic books, television series, video games, and films among others.[1]
>Reboots remove any non-essential elements associated with a franchise by starting the franchise's continuity over and distilling it down to the core elements and concepts.[3] For consumers, reboots allow easier entry for newcomers unfamiliar with earlier titles in a series.[3]
I've never heard someone argue the term "reboot" isn't appropriate for the cWoD to nWoD changeover.
>>
>>45087239
It does indeed, albeit a very niche organisation.

Ironically the Gargoyles probably make more sense under the forthcoming 2e framework for Lodges than they did in 1e.

>>45087473
Yes, firearms for stuff like Wolf-Blooded is not a bad idea, albeit with the usual non-combat problems that firearms tend to come with.

That said, the pack in my last Werewolf game spent time trying to train the non-Uratha pack members with bows, since arrows tended to be a far easier delivery mechanism for many types of bane than bullets are (and they could get away with having a bow at home far easier than a gun).
>>
I play all my characters as animes

All my characters are anme

I'm anime
>>
>>45088370
>That said, the pack in my last Werewolf game spent time trying to train the non-Uratha pack members with bows, since arrows tended to be a far easier delivery mechanism for many types of bane than bullets are (and they could get away with having a bow at home far easier than a gun).

Bows also have the nice bonus of not being loud as fucked fuck.
>>
>>45088370
>they could get away with having a bow at home far easier than a gun

I forgot your game was set in France, not the USA.

In America, shotguns are probably the least restricted and most ubiquitous firearm available, even in anti-gun states, and used in everything from hunting and sport competition to self-defense.
>>
>>45088539
I've also run games set in the UK, Poland, etc etc.

Shotguns are the most common form of firearm in the UK too. They still run into the same sorts of problems; silver shot is fine as a tool versus Uratha but there's a lot bane-wise they're not suitable for delivering effectively. Albeit you could probably get more with stuff like flechettes.
>>
>>45088370
>Ironically the Gargoyles probably make more sense under the forthcoming 2e framework for Lodges than they did in 1e.
Can you tell us more? I remember you talking about how you'd want to change the Lodges.

>>45088370
>(and they could get away with having a bow at home far easier than a gun).
You silly Euros.

>>45088380
Kawaii sugoi desu ne?

>>45088539
I thought it was hunting rifles.
>>
>>45088795
>Can you tell us more? I remember you talking about how you'd want to change the Lodges.
Hopefully there will be more details on 2e Lodges in the very near future. Keep an eye out for a blog post from Stew. I'm not completely sure when, whether it's a 'within a week' timeframe or a longer timeframe.

Anyway, I wrote the new 2e Lodge framework, so if you read my opinions and intentions about how to change them, you can probably guess a fair bit about how the new system works,
>>
>>45084923
>The last third of that game sinks like a neonate tied to a sarcophagus.
To be fair, this is everyone's opinion on Bloodlines. It's really clear where the devs ran out of time and money.
>>
Could the God-Machine's angels shitpost forced memes to grow them into an occult matrix input?

What will the output be?

And how many of them would Fall in the process?
>>
>>45089595
>Could the God-Machine's angels shitpost forced memes to grow them into an occult matrix input?
In theory, yes
>What will the output be?
What does the G-M want it to be?
>And how many of them would Fall in the process?
Do any of them *not* shitpost the forced meme? Those are the ones that Fall.
>>
>>45078115

the god-machine to me is a living machine/magic/ ect ect that has gone way off from its original course and has gotten damaged in the long run. its trying to complete its original goal but does not know how to and is driving blind thus making everything it does more twisted like a writer that knows the ending to a book, but for the life of him can't start.
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>>45090038
what a boring explanation that's not even nearly as good as what's actually in the books
>>
Does anyone else start STing with no idea of what they're going to do at all? I've got my player working to find out why people in the city are getting sick and I'm making shit up as I go along.
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>>45088835
A few of my players had this problem recently, they had some bullets handy and inscribed an angels bane onto it, unfortunately the rounds they used were some old silver rounds they had lying around, and I had to tell 'em that the soft silver was going to deform heavily when fired, lead would probably have the same problem and not hold the inscription.
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>>45090283
I had a....really vague idea and some mcguffins I wanted to include, that was about it.
>>
>>45084623
tell that to Saulot
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>>45090140
hey man better then what you came up with
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>>45090283
I have a bunch of vague ideas, but beyond the Prelude sessions I'm gonna be running for my players over the next week or so, I have no idea what's going to happen in my Demon game. Just a bunch of NPCs and plothooks they could look into if they want, the biggest of which I'm introducing in their Preludes as a way to connect their characters.

They're all going to wake up in the same facility, at different times, and get sent on their various missions. The first session is going to pick up a week after their falls, with them meeting each other face-to-face for the first time, and hopefully realizing that they were all summoned into existence by the same group.
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>>45090449
I tend to have a few ideas of neat scenes, maybe McGuffins or a final culprit. Everything else is just made up as I go along, including characters who need to have whole personalities thrown together on a moment's notice without feeling like repeats of other people or reusing names. I also have to make it make sense.

>>45090991
Same group?
Also, I'm doing Vampire at the moment and a fledgling is being told to look into solving some disease that's going around. I had them meet with the Kogaion in a little free clinic on the edge of the bad part of town and now they're talking over a dead body.
>>
>>45091316
That's basically how I do it, works pretty well until the group do something I'm REALLY unprepared for, but usually that ends up being my fault for no prepping shit that they've been ready to go investigate/deal with.
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>>45091316
>Same group?
Yeah, the spoiler is just because I know at least one of my players had a habit of reading /exg/ when we still played Exalted, but he made a point of not reading spoiler text if there was any hint that it was one of my posts, so he could avoid having stuff revealed to him. Hopefully, if he reads /wodg/, he'll keep doing the same thing.
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>>45085704
Anyone?
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>>45085704

I'd say it's the latter. It's not like there's any further convincing to be made at that point.
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>>45078735
I played a blind space Mage once that basically used the internet, or at least her web-domain/phone as her sanctum and a private retreat since she was a recluse (also psychotically fascinated with spiders) and used matter and space and time to basically make parts of it more solid/definite. That and whenever she used matter mage armor in there it was stylized to be Tron-esque (pic is what she looked like with it on).
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>>45092413
There are so many crazy, fascinating things in that statement that I just didn't get enough sleep to ask. So instead I'm just going to go "wut" and hope you tell me more.
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>>45092413
>used the internet, or at least her web-domain/phone as her sanctum

She lived in her phone?
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>>45085548
>Actually, come to think of it, a Compact based on We Are... Robin or just the "Real Life Superhero Movement" in general would be pretty cool.
Really that's the type of thing thaht shouldn't be a hunter compact, it should focus on fighting crime and corruption, which doesn't usually involve magic races at all
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>>45092522
>Tweet
Honestly, the worst part of that is that Trump4Vets only actually donates 1% to veterans.

Also, think about some of the people that the Bat Family goes up against. Joker. Riddler. Two-Face. Bane. Poison Ivy. Killer Croc. The League of Assassins. Szasz. Azrael. The Dollmaker. The Court of Owls. Solomon Grundy.

There's a reason I set my Werewolf game in Gotham. And in the World of Darkness, crime and corruption DOES involve magical races, whether that's Wolfblooded families leading organized crime or vampires pulling the strings of ghouled politicians. Sorcerers and mummies with their cults, promethean terrorizing people in their quest to learn what humanity is. Faeries kidnapping the innocent from their beds. Demons and Angels creating a web of Stigmatics.

There already are Compacts that deal with mundane corruption worsened by the supernatural, even. Night's Watch is a group that deals with drug dealers even when that drug is vitae, the Barrett Commission seeks to buy out and take over any vampire controlled businesses, and Habibti-Ma gets back people who've been brainwashed into cults, whether it was done by a mummy, vampire, sorcerer, or just someone who thinks they're the reincarnation of Muhammad.

A We Are Robin/Bat Family/RLSH themed Org would basically be the same thing. They want to stop crime and corruption whether it's mortal or supernatural, and sometimes the cops aren't equipped to deal with certain things because they don't believe in it or are on the take.

Also, some of the stuff from the current Batman run is neat, like a Bat-App that tells Gordon's team where people are in trouble, allowing Batman to get there before anyone else. Of course, that does mean they're using a fucking power armour suit and an eye in the sky APC for purse snatchers...
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>>45092968
>Also, think about some of the people that the Bat Family goes up against. Joker. Riddler. Two-Face. Bane. Poison Ivy. Killer Croc. The League of Assassins. Szasz. Azrael. The Dollmaker. The Court of Owls. Solomon Grundy.
Most of whom are entirely human.

>And in the World of Darkness, crime and corruption DOES involve magical races,
They're in the minority, most crime is still committed by mortals. The number of wolf-blooded organized crime families pales in comparison to completely mortal gangs (and you wouldn't even need hunters to deal with wolf-blooded)

>Also, some of the stuff from the current Batman run is neat, like a Bat-App that tells Gordon's team where people are in trouble, allowing Batman to get there before anyone else. Of course, that does mean they're using a fucking power armour suit and an eye in the sky APC for purse snatchers...
They only pull out Batgordon for the big publicity shows, no one is out there stopping purse snatchers, which is my point. It's why We Are Robin exists, because without Batman, there's no one focusing on plain old crime but a corrupt police department whose sole source of honor is busy being a show horse.
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>>45093141
What the fuck is going on there. What are those things?
Also, I don't keep up with the comics, but I did a bit of research. I was under the impression that Gordon is now a Batman funded by a private corp that works within the law (which is why Gordon agreed to it), and that the Robins are all technically criminals (as vigilantism is a crime).

Also, I feel like you're downplaying the amount of criminal activity that most Supers get involved in. Even the "good" guys tend to have Legitimate Business fronts, or what amounts to cults. Go through the 1e Spell list and see how many of the rotes describe being used for criminal activities. Everything from B&E to murdering Sleepers who get in the way. And, yeah, actually, you would want to be a Hunter if you're going up against someone who can transform even into just Urshul or Urhan or Dalu. Especially if they've got Fetishes or Talens or Spirits to help them out, and the Wolfblooded are only the tip of the iceberg, running the show so that the Wolves can operate without worrying about food or shelter. There are plenty of examples in WtF2e where they kill politicians for getting in their way.

Again, there are EXISTING HUNTER GROUPS about mortal crime that supernaturals are involved in.

Nevermind that half the villains I listed are barely human, and even the ones who are would probably qualify as Slashers of some sort. The Joker literally cut his own fucking face off. Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, and Solomon Grundy aren't even human anymore. Hell, Man-Bat would make a good Horror.
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>>45093440
>What the fuck is going on there. What are those things?
>Also, I don't keep up with the comics, but I did a bit of research. I was under the impression that Gordon is now a Batman funded by a private corp that works within the law (which is why Gordon agreed to it), and that the Robins are all technically criminals (as vigilantism is a crime).
Mr Bloom is showing the city, and Gordon, that this fake Batman is shit and the company is just using it to test run military prototypes.

>Also, I feel like you're downplaying the amount of criminal activity that most Supers get involved in.
You're downplaying the amount of criminal activity that regular mortals get involved in. Just about every crime ever perpetrated in the history of the world has been committed by a plain old human, and that is mirrored in WoD. The idea that anyone would consider themselves a superhero or even just a hero, because they target only a certain kind of person who commits crime shows a lack of understanding about the superhero genre, or the concept of the term hero. Plus it's basically racism.

>Again, there are EXISTING HUNTER GROUPS about mortal crime that supernaturals are involved in.
There's EXISTING HUNTER GROUPS about killing supernaturals. You can hold down shift longer than that, but that's a shitty argument.

>Nevermind that half the villains I listed are barely human, and even the ones who are would probably qualify as Slashers of some sort. The Joker literally cut his own fucking face off. Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, and Solomon Grundy aren't even human anymore.
I'm sure you can count, so you know that wasn't even nearly half, just like you know that the League of Assassins and Court of Owls are organizations of humans dedicated to committing crime and corruption that, just like the rest of criminal humanity, vastly outnumber the four you mentioned.
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>>45092479
Well depending where she was at the time, phone/laptop. She kind of just use both devices as an easier gateway to getting to her sanctum.

>>45092464
Character was basically originally an cWoD Mage that had a fucked up awakening, basically a 14 year old girl from Georgia that lived a secluded, sheltered life on her family farm with only her parents. Both of her parents were Mages and her father tried magic fuckery to yield more bountiful tomatoes, but it didn't mix very well with pesticides. Little Silvia was playing around on the farm as usual and stumbled across the box of tomatoes in the barn and not knowing any better started eating them, because she's somewhat of a glutton.

Didn't react very well to that as it prematurely forced her awakening and messed up her physically in the process. As mentioned earlier, those magically enhanced pesticides caused her to go blind as well as permanently stunting her growth, while over compensating in other areas (but that's not important). So end result was her as a blind screaming mess in the barn.

Fast forward to the future 4 years later, she's been separated from her family and handed over to mage associates to keep her educated and to help her sort out how magic works, and to even let her see for short periods of time with space magic and an enchanted eye necklace.

Of course it wouldn't be one of the DM at the time's campaigns without there being a wacky Government X-Men/Men in Black group to shove the characters in, as serve as the loose basis of what we got ourselves into. So began the misadventures of Darylyn the blind space mage.
>>
Just tried updating the Constance Discipline from the Icrarian bloodline & I would love to hear of what to you guy think.

Constance
Constance represents an inner well of confidence derived from a resolute sense of divine entitlement. This well of the will can be brought to a boil by burning Vitae.
Cost: None or 1 Vitae per effect
Dice Pool: None
Action: None (for persistent effects) or Reflexive (for active effects)
Duration: Permanent (for persistent effects) or one turn (for active effects)
Like physical Disciplines, Constance has two kinds of effects: persistent and active. Persistent effects are always on, and have no cost. Active effects are Reflexive, and cost one Vitae per effect.
Persistent: Add the vampire’s dots in Constance to his Resolve. This may raise a character’s resolve above the normal limits imposed by his Blood Potency. The vampire may stave off falling into torpor from there health box being full of lethal damage up to his dots in Constance.
Active: By spending Vitae a vampire can invigorate her Id, giving her a Transcendent sense oneself. For each point of Vitae spent choose one effect from the following list.
A vampire may spend additional Vitae to invoke multiple effects simultaneously, but no effect of Constance may be used more than once per turn.
Spend a vitae when the vampires actions of thoughts would be altered by forcing open doors or magical effct. Constance causes a Clash of Wills against the ability that would control or alter her thought the vampire benefits from the rote quality on her Clash of Wills dice pool.
Spend a Vitae instead of a willpower for the activation of abilities. She cannot use Constance to use two willpower in a turn. Finally, using Constance in this way is draining; a vampire may use this substitution as many times in a scene as she has dots in Constance.
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>>45093440
>Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, and Solomon Grundy aren't even human anymore. Hell, Man-Bat would make a good Horror.
Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy just want to be left alone. Getting a group of people to hunt them seems like overkill
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>>45093832
Maybe they're Extempores then.
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>>45093876
Should have added 'or Claimed.' to that, sorry.
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>>45093642
I have no idea why you don't seem to get this. There are Hunter groups that already do the thing you're complaining wouldn't be Hunter territory. There's even a book about a group of Hunters and supernaturals who team up to push gangbangers and drug dealers out of the city. You're saying "this wouldn't be a Hunter group" and I'm telling you that it already is.

Meanwhile, in the real world you actually do have people who put on costumes like superheroes and try to do good, albeit usually with less vigilantism and citizens arrests. If you take that concept and put it into the same setting where the collective power of a union is focused on fighting monsters that threaten people's neighborhoods as well as unfair labour conditions... you could very easily justify people who work outside the law to beat up criminals and try to take down supernatural creatures while dressed as cartoon characters.

Also the Court of Owls uses fucking zombie ninjas. The entire point of a superhero story is "the cops can't handle this". I have no idea why you seem to think bad guys on the level of Hunters aren't fitting foes for a Hunter.

>>45093756
I like where you're going, but it could use some cleaning up. Does Constance allow you to spend Vitae above your per-turn limit? Do you need to make a surcharge (i.e. if you want to spend 3 vitae at BP 1, do you need to spend 4 vitae)? That last one also doesn't make sense. Forcing Doors is just social manipulation, not necessarily magical. You should treat Constance like Indomitable. Maybe have it add to your Doors and Resistance against mental effects, and spend Vitae to add Constance to your dice pool?

I like the idea of spending a point of Vitae instead of willpower to activate effects, but does 2e have a lot of "costs a point of Willpower" effects? If not, you might want to allow the vampire to spend a point of Vitae as if it were Willpower (which could mean +3). Slightly better than Physical Intensity, but X per scene
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>>45093832
Aren't Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy both sort of insane monsters?
I mean, most of the time I've seen Killer Croc show up, he's either killing someone or stealing something. In Son of Batman, he's even been stealing shit to genetically modify himself (and got a tail).

Either way, a lot of Batman villains are explicitly too much for the cops to handle. Even ostensibly mortal villains like Riddler or Joker are out of GCPD's league. And the notion that Hunters only deal with the major templates would be a silly notion.

The only villains I can think of who aren't at least a Slasher of some sort are Black Mask, Penguin (ignoring the versions where he's clearly some sort of mutant), and Two-Face. And I guess Falcone/Moretti.

>>45093876
>>45093917
Grundy is going to show up in my Werewolf game as an Extempore probably. Killer Croc is going to be more like a Host.
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>>45093919
>I have no idea why you don't seem to get this.
Probably because you read their original statement wrong. I'm going to have to guess you're pdfanon now.
>There are Hunter groups that already do the thing you're complaining wouldn't be Hunter territory. There's even a book about a group of Hunters and supernaturals who team up to push gangbangers and drug dealers out of the city. You're saying "this wouldn't be a Hunter group" and I'm telling you that it already is.
>>45092522
>Really that's the type of thing thaht shouldn't be a hunter compact, it should focus on fighting crime and corruption, which doesn't usually involve magic races at all
Superheroes shouldn't have to be a hunter compact because you don't need to involve yourself into the supernatural to do good and stop crimes.

>Also the Court of Owls uses fucking zombie ninjas. The entire point of a superhero story is "the cops can't handle this". I have no idea why you seem to think bad guys on the level of Hunters aren't fitting foes for a Hunter.
Again, because you were arguing about what you wanted to argue about, and not what the original point was.

If you want to do good, you don't have to be a hunter compact, and don't have to target supernaturals to do so. And if you're going to be doing good, focusing on the supernatural is not going to help anything, because for every vampire who kills someone by overeating, there's 2 rapists, 5 corrupt public officers, 10 abusive cops and 20 drug dealers who are all human.

Also, only one branch of the Court uses cryogenically preserved enforcers.
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>>45093919
I don't see whstvyou saying about spending more vitae in a turn where did I imply that?

Like you idea for resisting compulsion it seems simpler then my idea I will change that.

I was trying to avoid having it be full willpower benefits cause there are tons of effects a vampire could use willpower on. Such as riding the wave, any Santorum blood sorcery spell, ordo dracul ability to enter into a frenzy. Just to name a few things.
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>>45094018
>Aren't Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy both sort of insane monsters?
Killer Croc depends on the writer, but usually he just tries to be left alone in the sewer, then constant harassment from one side or another forces him to get involved and he really gets involved. Until he runs away tail between his legs.

Solomon Grundy is basically a golem, he's just inactive underneath the swamp unless someone summons him.

>Either way, a lot of Batman villains are explicitly too much for the cops to handle. Even ostensibly mortal villains like Riddler or Joker are out of GCPD's league.
There's a reason the We Are Robin movement hasn't been sent to deal with anything out of the GCPD's league.
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>>45094147
>Solomon Grundy is basically a golem, he's just inactive underneath the swamp unless someone summons him.
more of a turnip
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>>45092285
Works for me, thanks bruh
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>>45093673
>while over compensating in other areas (but that's not important)

:^)
erotic
role
play
>>
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>>45093673
Darylyn was still pretty childishly naive from her sheltered upbringing and tended to live constantly in a psuedo-state of fantasy and obsession, where because if magic is real, then why not all those sorts of fairy tales and books she reads about? It gave her some pretty unrealistic expectations out of life that she'd mostly keep to herself. Speaking of books, her favorite was Charlotte's Web, and that's where her unhealthy fascination with spiders sort of spawned from (she'd also watch spiders back at the farm).

Before I get ahead of myself, the DM has a bit of a warped perspective of what World of Darkness is all about, and an even more warped sense of the rules, and things that aren't his homebrew house rules are wrong.

Back to where I left off, the government had assembled a group of mage teenagers with attitude as... junior agents? The party was an autistic kid that was a wannabe anarchist, a little black kid with the emotional capacity of a robot and dumb spoiled bitch that acted as if she was an anime character with 'a special bloodline' played the worst player I've ever had to deal with She said that's not what the character was. When asked the follow up question of what her was supposed to be, the player didn't have an answer). Then we had a couple of weird NPCs. Running joke of the game, we were a party of handicapped mages.

We get sent out on a couple dumb missions, Darylyn and the autistic kid have the most painfully awkward and clueless budding romance, the NPCs do their scene stealing things, etc. Then we get stuck in a scenario where the awful player had the bright idea of turning gravity upside down to kill some vampires in a warehouse. Hooo boy the paradox that ensued was awful,
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>>45094801
Actually no, it was primarily just as a joke for pocket space and using space magic to pull things out of her shirt to for suspension of disbelief against getting paradox. I wouldn't stoop down to ERP or anything for smutty situations.
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>>45094930
>I wouldn't stoop down to ERP or anything for smutty situations.
but thats all your characters exist for
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>>45094041
What did I read wrong? No one is saying you need to be a Hunter group to do good. I'm saying that there's design space for a fucking costumed vigilante Hunter group. You're telling me that there shouldn't be a Hunter Compact that does things that Hunter Compacts already care about.

>>45094124
>A vampire may spend additional Vitae to invoke multiple effects simultaneously, but no effect of Constance may be used more than once per turn.
I assumed that meant you could spend it for other things. Like I said originally, it could use some formatting.

>>45094147
>There's a reason the We Are Robin movement hasn't been sent to deal with anything out of the GCPD's league.
Like I said, I haven't read We Are Robin, I just think there's room for a Hunter Org based on the Real Life Superhero movement and Batman, Inc's concept of "let me teach you how to fight crime".
>>
>>45094930
look at this, protesting too much

faggot alert
>>
>>45095959
That exact wording was used in the requirm book for vigor. Besides unless the ability say you can go beyond your potency your capped by your limit. Such as Cll to Serve.
>>
So, we have a few writers here, would anyone be willing to hint as to whether we might get a new Demon book in the oWoD? I (and plenty of others, I imagine) want my not-related-to-cosmic-calculators fallen angels back...
>>
>>45084314
>V20 Black Hand

Wait, so Paradox is letting you do the Nostalgia editions that don't have shit to do with their in-house VtM and yet are making them master-compatible with the in-house VtM?

Tell me you're fucking trolling us.
>>
>>45085145
There is no blood projectile power in Path of Blood. It, like most powers from Bloodlines, were made up whole cloth for the game to make it FPS-able.
>>
>>45085565
Yeah, that's called Batman Incorporated.
>>
>>45098186

True... and damn. Not that anon, but was curious too. Guess I'll have to do a Tremere run where I don't use blood strike at all. Man, I'm getting stumped for ways to run through the game.

>>45097809

This. And I personally really don't like the idea of Souls becoming 'Eidolons'. It sounds like warning signs of 'well, when we said we were continuing the Classic World of Darkness, that was just so chumps would buy our new vision. This is actually a whole new sanitized WoD, that simply borrows more heavily from oWoD than nWoD.

Forgive me if that sounds blunt or abrasive. I have no ill will towards any of the writers. I've just seen this dance where a large company buys out a beloved franchise far too many times. It rarely ends well.
>>
>>45098408
It's a damn tabletop, you don't 'run through' the game. If anything you have to do that, though, invest in Path of Blood to 3. Lower your Generation. Get extra blood expenditure. Use guns. buff the fuck out of your Dexterity. Go to town with guns.
>>
>>45097809
>>45098408

If you want a new Demon: The Fallen book, you'll have to see if Onyx Path gets a 20th Anniversary Edition approved of Demon: The Fallen. They usually don't get those projects going until around or on the actual 20th Anniversary, so you'd have to wait till around 2022. The only current new material for Demon the Fallen is the Demon Translation Guide, which is great, but probably not what ya'll are looking for.

The only real oWoD book in general that's not being done by Paradox/White Wolf is a book about ghosts, and as far as I know that one hasn't been nixed like Onyx Path's VtM Fourth Edition was.
>>
>>45098408
I have no idea why you think "Eidolons" is somehow sanitized. Everyone's best guess is even that it allows them to keep the actual soul stuff for real Demons. And no matter what, it IS going to be Dracula's vision.
>>
>>45098507

I mean Bloodlines anon. You can only put dots on Thaum. And guns don't get good til the latter half of the game, sans the shotgun. But thankfully you fight precious few supernaturals until that point.

>>45098530

I think you are missing my point. I'm not talking about oWoD so much as concern that One World of Darkness is not going to be what it is claimed to be. The little changes we are already hearing about are enough to start changing the 'atmosphere' of the game.

Demon is my favorite core of oWoD and I really want to see it come to OWoD, but it will depend how close to the original lore they are keeping, and how many sweeping changes. If OWoD isn't basically 'Classic, continued, Gehenna averted' then whats the point?

We already have decades of (beautifully revised) core rules and supplements for oWoD, and some nice fluff novels and comics, along with a major cult video game. Frankly, I'm content with what we already have. nWoD fans are getting Chronicles, which seems to be a soft reboot of a run that was designed to be mostly crunch, and will likely be mostly rules revisions.

As someone who loves the oWoD, it would be nice to see it continue, and I will happily buy the books and get on the train early... but that's if it is indeed a continuation. I personally have no interest in a soft reboot. Nor in a company selling us a butchered (the fluff, that is) chimera with the power of nostalgia.

I'm just wary is all, and want to follow the reveals and potential leaks carefully.
>>
>>45099010
Oh, I misread you. Sorry about the vitriol. I thought you meant 'run through' the tabletop game you're planning to be playing in.

Though one of the things i've thought about doing as a test house rules for a short game is to take the Bloodlines-style stuff and integrate them into the mainline Disicplines.
>>
>>45099010
>The little changes we are already hearing about are enough to start changing the 'atmosphere' of the game.
They really aren't.

Even if oWoD IS "Classic, continued, Gehenna averted" you're unlikely to see Demon for several years. The changes that you're seeing so far are basically nothing at all, and anyone's best guess is that they serve to make Demon better and more impressive.

Chronicles of Darkness has also been a bit more than just a rules update. Many of the character organizations have had their entire focuses changed. And it's very likely that the one World of Darkness will be doing the same thing. You're doomsaying before you've even seen a hint of the final product.

And I wouldn't be surprised if you're amatajakki.
>>
>>45099140

No worries, just wanted to clarify myself.

>>45099191

What, vampires not having souls? Souls not being souls? A few quotes from David above.

>...multiple Masquerade books have literally had rules for a diablerie victim's soul possessing the diablerist. It's one of the most important Gehenna plots.
>I do know that they want to pull hard away from demons. I had to cut any explicit references to demons. Not just that, but the Black Hand doesn't actually know what a demon is, now.
>Vampires objectively do not have souls, unless they've achieved Golconda.
>Now, vampires cannot become wraiths at all, unless they've achieved Golconda.
>(Regarding the book, Black Hand) it means we have a character in that book who has objectively reached Golconda. No ambiguity. No nothing. I think that's a big deal.
>Now, on White Wolf changes specifically, I don't know the purpose for removing Souleaters.

I'm sorry, are words of a trusted and respected writer not enough for you? I'm not being a doomsayer, I'm saying these glimpses that I am thankful David shared have me concerned, and if you read about a third of a page up you'll see I'm far from alone.

I don't care if Demon's takes another decade to come out in One World of Darkness. If it's good, I can wait. If it's not, I doubt I'll care.

I'm concerned about the overall World of Darkness. And I'm always especially wary when a big company, who wants to turn a franchise multimedia, buys up a beloved property. Cross-medium often requires a lot of 'changes' in the eyes of those who pay the bills. And it's killed so many things over the years. That said, there are success stories. I really hope One World of Darkness will be one of them.
>>
Onyx Path deleted the thread about vampires not having souls.
>>
>>45099599

I'm sorry to hear that. It's little touches like that which speak louder than words. If they think the fan base miss stuff like that, they clearly haven't been paying attention.

Oh, wait, no doomdaying (or noticing anything uncomfortable). I'm sure it was just a mistake.
>>
>>45099430
Almost none of that is a major setting change. It's always been pretty ambiguous about whether vampires are really eating each other's souls, and even David's best guess is that it's to make the eventual Demon: The Fallen remake work better. You know, the thing you're concerned you won't be getting.

And I'll take that as a yes, then, you are atamajakki. Yes, other people are concerned or curious, but no one else is handwringing quite so much as you are, because everyone else realizes that metaphysics aside, this tells us nothing.

>>45099599
People are getting too close to THE TRUTH!
>>
>>45099641
>atamajakki

Sorry, I have no clue who that is, I've not been on the general very long.

>and even David's best guess is that it's to make the eventual Demon: The Fallen remake work better.

And if it works out that way, awesome. We'll just have to wait and see. I am not particularly concerned about not getting it. I just want them to be proper fallen angels, with much of the fluff staying the same. No God Machines or anything silly like that.
>>
>>45099641

How do I know YOU aren't atamajakki, anon?
>>
>>45099725
You're not going to get the fucking God-Machine in oWoD, calm your fucking tits. Nothing has had any bearing on Demon. You're just fucking handwringing and worrying over bullshit that if anything bodes well for Demon: The Fallen.
>>
>>45099641

Oh, sorry, missed...

>no one else is handwringing quite so much as you are

I'm... not handwringing? You are aware this is a message board, yes? I'm just discussing my thoughts and concerns, and putting them out there to be seen, between watching Netflix. I'm far from handwringing. I'm just aware that you have to make yourself heard, or you have no footing to stand on latter when you complain that everything is different and you don't like it. Call me a vocal test sample of the fanbase. I can be added to a pool of a hundred other messages, and a list of 'general hopes and concerns' of the fans can be made. Unlikely? Sure, but I'm an optimist, despite how it may look.
>>
>>45099800

why do you use the word "handwringing" so much
>>
>>45099858
Because in the deleted post >>45099599 atamajakki actually used the phrase "handwringing" and it stuck with me as apt.
>>
>>45099800

Ugh, subtext anon, I don't mean literally. I just don't want any 'clever' interpretations this time. I want as pure oWoD as we can get.

How can you be this mad over an anon sharing his opinions and making conversation? What would you rather be talking about, that hasn't been discussed a thousand times? With who, when the General is pretty much empty at the moment? If I'm bugging you, just ignore me. You aren't in a position to put any of my concerns to rest, only time, leaks, and a few releases will do that. Nor will I be repeating this stuff forever, no worries there. I just have nothing better to do right now. So, in your own words...

>calm your fucking tits
>>
>>45099875

fuck off atamajakki
>>
>>45099905
>I want as pure oWoD as we can get.
But oWoD Demon was a dumb clusterfuck with mechanics that barely held together.

Also, I'm not mad, I just find it annoying that you took a thing a developer said and now you're worrying that everything will change and your game will be ruined. Even though not even that developer seems to be all that worried about it. If David isn't too concerned, why should you be?
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>>45099984

You seem to have latched onto Demon as my sole concern. It's my favorite core, but I love the WoD setting as a whole. And sure, David isn't too concerned visibly, yet...

>I personally think that has immense impact on the game. Unprecedented, even.
>So yeah. There will be some big changes. Some bigger than others. I'm curious how they plan to do some of this.

But in many ways, outside his own writing he is as in the dark as we are.

>I just find it annoying that you took a thing a developer said and now you're worrying that everything will change and your game will be ruined.

And I find it mildly wearying that a writer can openly acknowledge that new decisions and changes have an massive and unprecedented impact on the game, and that there are changes small and large that a writer 'is curious' to see how they are going to make work.

That said, I honestly, really am not all that passionate about this to the point of arguing all night. I have said my piece and I am fairly content to leave it there. I'll let the thread go back to being ded.
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>>45100152

Er, better finish that sentence...

And I find it mildly wearying that a writer can openly acknowledge that new decisions and changes have an massive and unprecedented impact on the game, and that there are changes small and large that a writer 'is curious' to see how they are going to make work, and me picking up on that makes me a doomsayer. It's not doomsaying, it's reading between the lines. Perhaps wrongly, maybe David will set me straight or tell me to stop being so stupid, but time will tell.
>>
>>45099430
>vampires cannot become wraiths at all, unless they've achieved Golconda.
Isn't becoming a Wraith a very bad thing? Why would you want to do that with a character who's achieved Golconda?
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>>45101642

Quote without that part of the context. Basically, Wraith was a way for (Vampire) players to keep their character when they died. But now, as you note, there are... issues.
>>
>>45101809
IIRC the whole goal when playing Wraith is to stop existing (in the correct manner).

You don't want to be a Wraith.
>>
Has anyone used the Investigation rules yet?

My player is investigating a mysterious disease going around, with strange effects on the Kindred. Sort of a superflu that gives the third eye, but also makes you shit yourself and sweat and vomit.
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>>45104208
>strange effects on the Kindre
>but also makes you shit yourself and sweat and vomit.
Does it make them spend Vitae to do that?

>gives the third eye
Are you trying to introduce the Salubri as a Clan?
>>
>>45104265
They Blush of Life specifically so they can start sweating and shitting and puking, usually vitae. Doesn't last long, but it's uncomfortable and gets rid of vitae. The Kogaion has been abusing Coil of Ascendant to study it nonstop for the last week. There doesn't seem to be any connection between the victims (and at this point for both human and kine there's no deaths, though one guy did get hit by a car) and no one's reported getting puked on and catching it, like something natural. It's like a superflu, but lasts only a couple days. The only tip off that it's supernatural is the sometimes prophetic nature of the hallucinations, blue veins that stand out while people are infected, and the way it affects Kindred.

Also, metaphorical third eye, not literal. Player wanted something similar to the Plaguebearer quest in Bloodlines. I was thinking about basically Brother Vick as a Morbus with Malkavia instead of a Gangrel, but someone here suggested Malkavians are something I should introduce down the line, for a player deeper into the setting, not as an introduction.

I'm thinking it might be something to do with Pijavica or something. I'm going to have her put the disease down and then have it come back later, stronger, and have more of an apocalypse cult vibe.
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Planning on running a pugmire demo game at a small gaming event tomorrow, any ideas or recommendations?
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>>45105138
Be a Good Dog.
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>>45105138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQaUmC0gKo
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>>45106369
>In CofD Mage, what Arcana would be required to converse with spirits in First Tongue, Mind, Spirit or both?
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>>45107773
Spirit 1
>>
>all this bitching about Paradox changing oWoD

They can't have a done a worse job of ruining oWoD than Justin Achilli did with Revised Edition in the late 90's/early 2000's.


The metaplot and rampant snobbery introduced by Justin Achilli (AKA "Mr. World of Darkness is super-serious business!") is why oWoD imploded with a shitty ending, why there was an nWoD/oWoD schism, and ultimately why things are so fucked up now with the Onyx Path/Paradox Interactive debacles.

V20 was a partial return to form, being metaplot-agnostic, but the snobs in the WoD fandom weren't happy enough and demanded for V4, and then Paradox buys White Wolf and things get even more fucked up and chaotic. Justin Achilli is to RPG's what Uwe Boll is to films or Vince Russo is to professional wrestling.

Just sayin'
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>>45107850

Speaking of which, when do you guys think White Wolf went off the rails and do you think Paradox can salvage WoD? (if it even needs salvaging)

Time for a poll, when did White Wolf "jump the shark"? I'm listing all the possible stuff that could be or is considered controversial in the WoD fandom, both the stuff that is universally loathed (like Sam Haight and WoD: Gypsies) and the "love it or hate it" stuff (like Wraith and Changeling)

>Never jumped
>Was shitty to begin with
>Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand
>Sam Haight
>Wraith: The Oblivion
>Changeling: The Dreaming
>WoD: Gypsies
>KOTE and the Year of the Lotus material
>Revised Edition oWoD
>Hunter: The Reckoning
>Demon: The Fallen
>Week of Nightmares and Independent Gangrel
>The Avatar Storm
>Gehenna/Time of Judgment
>New World of Darkness
>CCP merges with White Wolf
>Onyx Path and their painfully slow release schedule
>2e nWoD/Chronicles of Darkness
>Paradox Interactive buys White Wolf and announces "One World of Darkness"
>>
>>45107773
>>45107837

The purview of Mind includes spoken and written language, and therefore Mind would be required to speak and understand First Tongue.

Spirit 1 may work solely as a means to communicate directly with Spirits, but not to understand the language of First Tongue.
>>
I never hear much about Inferno.

Does anyone ever play the Possessed or use the infernal pacts/sacrifices for PCs?
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I know it's not WoD-related, but this is about a White Wolf game from the Classic World of Darkness's golden age in the early 90's, so here goes...

Anybody here like Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game? Personally, I love it, despite being a black sheep in the White Wolf fandom.

Hell, I even sometimes do oWoD/SF crossovers using the 1e/early 2e corebooks and the Street Fighter corebook. It's a bit silly and gonzo but that's the intent. Personal horror and grimdark seriousness can be fun every now and then, but sometimes you just want to unwind and have some over-the-top action horror fun.

Pic related

Pic related
>>
So, anybody feel nostalgic over early 1e nWoD or is it just me?
>>
>>45107850

Wasn't VtM 4e supposed to be an Eddy Webb project? Achilli's just doing a Vampire themed The Resistance clone.

>>45108019

How early are we talking? 2004-2006 nWoD or 2007-2011 nWoD?
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>>45108090
It's been completely pulled from OPP and is being done in-house now by new WW anyway, so we have no idea who may be working on it.
>>
>>45108134

Yeah, but when it was a thing, Eddy Webb was Vampire developer. That's what I meant. I got the impression from that post that Achilli was responsible for VtM 4e and wanted to clarify if the poster meant directly or indirectly.

I wonder who'll end up developer of One World of Darkness's Vampire, and if it'll be a White Wolf/OPP person.
>>
>>45108019
>So, anybody feel nostalgic over early 1e nWoD or is it just me?

It's just you.

The early nWOD 1e tried too hard to borrow and emulate parts of the cWOD, to say nothing of just some piss poor books like Changing Breeds.

It's regrettable that CCP didn't let OP at first create the second editions, but IMO, all the newer material is still substantially better than the early books.
>>
>>45108090
I'm talking 2004-2007 nWoD. I like the mysterious "oWoD Lite" feel of it. 2e in my opinion just blows. Yeah, mechanically it has improved but I like the old rules better. Besides, the God-Machine, while optional, does ruin a lot of the fun and mystery of early nWoD. And don't get me started on the shittiness of Demon and Beast.
>>
>>45108181
I'm not saying Achilli was directly responsible for V4 but that his actions and attitude during Revised Edition oWoD essentially ruined and fragmented both the setting and fanbase of the World of Darkness.
>>
>>45082463
It's Get and Silver Fangs locked in a dominance struggle for centuries. That's what makes sense to me
>>
>>45108239

See, I prefer 2007-2011 nWoD. The early stuff was too dry for me, and I feel like the line never came into its own until the limited lines started.
>>
>>45108239

I agree with the last sentence
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>>45108239
>Yeah, mechanically it has improved but I like the old rules better.
Does not compute.
>>
>>45107850
>>45107931
I've never really seen how Justin Achilli is supposed to have been The Devil as so many people say. He's also been part of several of the nWoD properties that I like, and yet not been the head of anything. In fact, for nWoD it seems like Ethan Skemp and Richard Thomas were in charge even as far back as Changeling, with both being Lead Developer and Creative Director for all three of the books I own.

Also, why do you seem to hate nWoD?

>>45107965
Spirit 1 is used to understand First Tongue. Again, it's one of the sample spells. It's a supernatural language.

>>45107996
When I looked at it, it looked like it had the utter lack of good design and pointless "ranked powers that each have nothing to do with each other" stuff of oWoD. Also, some fans made a 20th Anniversary fan edition. It adds nothing, but serves as a compendium.

>>45108019
No. Why? It tried too hard to be oWoD but different, and that didn't really work out for it, mechanically or narratively.

>>45108239
Why would you feel that mechanical improvement is not as good as the old rules? Why do you feel the God-Machine has somehow ruined fun and mystery? Why do you feel that Demon is shitty?

>>45108249
Provide some kind of REASON for your statement.

>>45108782
As above.
>>
>>45109219

Aspel, people can think things are terrible for any reason they want. You don't have to give people the third degree because they don't like your favorite system.
>>
>>45109816
I'm asking why they feel the way they do. I'm not even the only one who wants to know why they'd admit something is better but like the other version >>45108869. Most of that "third degree" comes from wondering why someone seems to have a hate on for a specific developer who didn't actually have any sort of major influence. I asked why he hates nWoD, but that was as an afterthought.

You don't have to complain about my posts either.
>>
>>45109871

Does it matter? You're just going to call them wrong and dumb and they're not going to agree. Just read, accept, and move on.
>>
>>45109871
I actually like 1e nWoD, but Justin Achilli is and always will be a talentless edgelord hack who has no idea of what the concept of fun is.

tl;dr, the metaplot blows.
>>
>>45109979
Why do you dislike 2e? And why do you feel that Achilli is responsible despite the fact that as far as I can tell he hasn't had any real leadership since Revised, and ALSO as far as I can tell, Revised wasn't even that poorly received except by people with a hateboner for Justin Achilli (and it's always Achilli and no one else). It's so weird all the hate he gets. He's blamed for everything wrong with White Wolf.

>>45109975
Why not take your own advice, then?
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>>45110054
Revised Edition was overrated and god-awful in my book. The metaplot became overly pretentious, railroady, and it punished players just for having fun. Achilli's attitude towards people who objected to the metaplot didn't help matters either.

If you played a Ravnos, Stargazer, or Camarilla Gangrel, Achilli was punishing you, and for what? A shitty Gehenna book with a bunch of shitty endings? (Wormwood, the canon ending was easily the worst and most pretentious of all the endings)

Revised Edition really only appeals to pretentious snobs and edgelords, although the mechanics were good, it was the nadir for the setting due to the worthless metaplot.

1e, 2e, and V20 are best. And since V20 has the better mechanics while staying metaplot-neutral, who even needs Revised?

Aside from snobs of course.
>>
I think the endless circular discussions about who may be responsible for past problems with WW is not particularly productive.

The people at issue are largely gone or minor players, and for good or ill, Rich Thomas and his new Swedish overlords are now in charge of WW's vision and implementation.

I believe the CofD second editions have been quite good, and just hope they largely continue as is. I'm thinking that passive neglect or disinterest by Paradox might be the best outcome for the lines.

There's only so much that can be done with the classic WOD material. It's part of the ethos and zeitgeist of over 20 years ago, and any changes will be little more than lipstick on a pig, particularly since the Swedish bosses seem to love the the 1990's style and feel of the WOD.

I am curious, however, what Paradox intends to do in-house with the classic WOD 4th editions. I'm not optimistic.
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>>45110185
I just hope that Paradox's new V4 is a lot more like 1e/2e Masquerade and lot less like Revised.

And here's some really cool music for us all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1ecbTgJdw
>>
Give me cornbread when I'm hungry
Corn whiskey when I'm dry
Capcom women may swarm around me
Sweet Heaven when I die

So, in all seriousness, what do you guys think of pre-Revised Edition oWoD and what is your favorite oWoD gameline?

For me, it's a tie between Vampire: The Masquerade 1e and Mage: The Ascension 2e.

Here's some more awesome music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKDKwJVyVQw
>>
>>45110179
You keep saying "pretentious" without giving any real... meaning.

I think the whole Ravnos and Gangrel thing is dumb, but not because "hurr metaplot". I think it's dumb because it treats those things as being homogenous groups without individual thought or freedom. I think the Gangrel leaving the Camarilla is stupid for the same reason I think City Gangrel--and Lasombra and Tzimisce and so on--all being Sabbat is stupid. Not because the Metaplot changed who was part of what organizations, but because it treats Clan too much like organization. And frankly you can still see some of that in VtR2e. Beijing's city is set up really strictly with different Clans having different duties and roles and controlling particular aspects of the city, as opposed to individuals being individual.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think oWoD is dumb. You're just doing a bad job of explaining to me why you think this particular aspect of it is dumb.

>>45110185
>I'm thinking that passive neglect or disinterest by Paradox might be the best outcome for the lines.
Probably, but at the same time I wish we'd get some of that Netflixing and such he talks about. I wonder what the chances are for a Chronicles of Darkness video game? It's not like gamers aren't familiar with spinoff titles set in separate continuities.

As for VTM4, I'm tentatively interested in whether "One World of Darkness" will make me a (classic) World of Darkness fan or not. Something like Bloodlines without the more GTA aspects would be nice.
>>
>Hates Justin Achilli
>Links anime
>posts song lyrics
>Links to bluegrass music
Oh fuck me is this Hentai Larp-chan?
>>
>>45110054

You first!

>>45110379

Wraith 2e, and I have a soft spot in my heart for Mage 1e.
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>>45110389
I just really hate metaplot, especially pretentious and poorly-written metaplot that only appeals to the type of people who voluntarily listen to Sisters of Mercy and think they're so deep and better than everyone else.

Corn whiskey has done and got my body, and Capcom women are troubling my mind.
>>
>>45110412
Nah, it's not HentaiLARP-chan. Remember, HentaiLarp-chan hated bluegrass and liked heavy metal.

Also, no mention of one-percenters yet.

I'm thinking it's either Aspel or Camilla.
>>
>>45110534
Or atamajakki, he likes anime and shitposts too.
>>
>>45107931
>WoD: Gypsies
What's so bad?
>>
>>45110534
He liked Justified, which has a soundtrack of bluegrass and bluegrass rap. He also did that thing where he posts country songs. Pretty sure he linked some soundtrack from O Brother Where Art Thou before.

Also you idiot, I'm Aspel. I'm the one asking why he has a hateboner for Justin Achilli. Hell, "Sisters of Mercy" was another insult I'm pretty sure they used.

Might have been Camilla, though.

>>45110566
We determined last thread that atamajakki doesn't actually hate oWoD and isn't the one who was obsessed with bluegrass and whatnot. He's the one who wants to assure you that he loves WoD and he's just worried that you'll completely ruin his childhood by changing anything (and also he loves Mummy and wants you to know he's the only one, even though several people will talk about Mummy's metaplot/secret history).

Cammy does have a great booty, though.

>>45110614
It's horribly racist and dumb.
http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/mors-rattus/gypsies/
I should really go back and finish this review thing I did. The worst part of the book actually reading it is that it has some good ideas bogged down by dumb and mechanics that get no explanation.
http://vindae.tumblr.com/post/105644491755/wolfsbane-curses-and-thievery
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>>45110614
You're serious?

WoD: Gypsies was a poorly written nightmare on top of being a racist and insensitive book.

tl;dr, my thoughts go back to my home in the mountains. To Dickenson County near the Wise County line.

I'm outta here, these threads remind me of why I like White Wolf games but hate their shitty fandom.
>>
>>45110649
Not sure if it's Camilla though, no mention of GTA or The Sopranos yet.

And yes, WoD: Gypsies sucks and Cammy does have a great ass.
>>
>>45110681
>tl;dr, my thoughts go back to my home in the mountains. To Dickenson County near the Wise County line.
>I'm outta here, these threads remind me of why I like White Wolf games but hate their shitty fandom.
This is definitely the poster known as Hentai Larp-chan.
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>>45110649
>people actually defending WoD: Gypsies

I'll go back to East Virginia
North Carolina ain't my home
I'll go back to East Virginia
Leave WoD General alone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNaXVmxMP8Y
>>
>>45110761
Probably is him, he was a mere troll and probably wants to troll us again.

Also, isn't HentaiLarp-chan from like Upstate New York or something? It seems all his knowledge of Appalachian culture seems to come from "O Brother Where Art Thou?" and reruns of Justified.
>>
>>45110761
Someone needs to run a 1e oWoD game along the lines of what HentaiLarp-chan would like. No metaplot, Appalachian setting, Outlaws MC bikers, and lots of scantily-clad anime chicks.

Could make a good parody and would probably piss him off if we did it in a way that clearly mocked him and his tastes.
>>
>>45110804
No one is defending it. Stop saying you'll leave WoD general alone and then not doing that. I had a screenshot from two years ago of you saying that three times.

>>45110832
He was born in some shitty coalmining town until his single mother worked hard to get out of there or something and now he wishes he could go shoot up his hometown and kill all his old relatives.
>>
>>45110882
So HentaiLarp-chan is essentially an edgelord?

Ironic that he hates Justin Achilli and goths for being 2edgy4u, but he is just like them in that aspect. Only difference is that he would rather listen to Bill Monroe than Bauhaus.
>>
I wonder if the other generals are as bad
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>>45111117
>>45110882
Next time Aspel, Camilla, atamajakki, or HentaiLarp-Chan start shitposting in these threads, just ignore them.

These crank call videos are a good simulation of what happens when HentaiLarp-chan and other shitposters begin trashing these threads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfqY0R67NJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9dUOeEJOrk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-oILp_JaYQ

Remember kids, arguing on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Pic related. I'm gonna need a lot of this to forget about this shitty thread.
>>
>>45111117
Not really. White Wolf has a really unstable fandom and these threads attract a lot of shitposters from Onyx Path Forums (ex: Camilla, Aspel, atamajakki, etc.)
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When it comes to HentaiLarp-chan or Aspel, just ignore them.

>Ignore them
>Hide them
>Do not reply to them
>>
So, um, back on topic...

What is the best Covenant in Requiem and why is it the Invictus?
>>
>>45111217
>>45111372
>Shitposting about how other people are shitposting.

>>45111299
I'm barely on the OPP forums. I probably should be, though...

>>45111418
>Invictus
But they're dumb. They're just the Camarilla all over again.
It's Carthians or Dragons or bust.
>>
>>45111117
Just on /tg/, or 4chan wide?

Because /int/ has somepretty fucking retarded generals
>>
>>45111741
>But they're dumb. They're just the Camarilla all over again.

this is outrageously dumb. The Camarilla from Masquerade was fucking stupid and constructed in an asinine fashion.

The Invictus are a slick, thematically tightened covenant that makes perfect sense in Kindred society and presents a very pragmatic view of the Requiem.

Or if you're operating based on a 1e understanding of them, that sucks. 1e did not handle them well at all.
>>
>>45112080
Then sell me on the Invictus. I haven't read the 2e write up, but I will soon. I've only read the Carthians and Dragons in 2e.
>>
So, I had an idea for a Sabbat game.

Specifically it revolves around a Sabbat pack whose rituals and imagery borrow heavily from the Russian Orthodox Church. I'm thinking the pack would be very religious and Orthodox (in both the Sabbat sense and the sense of the church) and vehemently opposed to infernalism. The pack's name is INRI (Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum) and they are a very violent and fanatical pack that is Tzimisce-led and largely comprised of female vampires (though their leader is male).

Any tips on making a game like this?
>>
>>45112406
I dunno.

I'd probably play it, though.
>>
>>45112406
Why?

Also, how exactly do you plan on DOING such a game? You're basically telling the players who they'd have to play. Those things always sound less like "a game I want to run" and more like "a neat idea that doesn't really fit as a game".
>>
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>>45112183

>He can’t talk, can’t move. Doesn’t matter if that’s fear or the Managing Director’s power. It’s all power and hunger, really. But the point is power.

>So very often, at the heart of the vampire web lies the lord and master, the queen, the mistress. The trappings of power — regal,
corporate, political, criminal, military — are just trappings. In the end, the structures are the same. Power is the means and the end, the payment for indispensable service. The vampires of the Invictus either have power and know how to keep it or want it and know how to get it. The master of an Invictus house — they often call the ruling structure a “house” — might be the CEO of a holding company, the Godfather of a sprawling crime empire, a mayor, a general, or just a King or Queen; and might maintain a variety of complex hierarchies. But it’s always a hierarchy.

The Invictus of 2nd edition are pretty sleek and deadly, adopting whatever trappings are necessary to operate. They still politic and backstab, but there's a new emphasis on the importance of the hierarchy and establishment itself and how they order Kindred society.

>Every vampire in the covenant covets the job of the vampire above her; every vampire fears the one beneath. But personal advancement must not come at the cost of the establishment, or its great trust. The Invictus has maintained the traditions of the dead for longer than any vampire covenant now, longer even than its predecessor, the Camarilla itself, survived. The hierarchy must remain intact. A prince cannot be removed if his absence would put the age-old forms in danger; a subordinate cannot be disposed of if no one survives to replace him.
>>
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>>45112406
Some details on this Russian Orthodox Sabbat game, the players have all agreed to play anime and video game characters who have been embraced by the Sabbat.

Here's the roster for the pack known as INRI

>Sephiroth, Ductus, 8th Gen Lasombra
>Riku, Pack Priest, 8th Gen Tzimisce
>Mikoto Uchiha, Abbot, 10th Gen Tzimisce
>Chun-Li, Pack Member, 9th Gen Brujah
>Claire Redfield, Pack Member, 11th Gen Gangrel
>Kagome Higurashi, Pack Member, 11th Gen Toreador
>Makoto Kino, Shovelhead, 13th Gen Gangrel


This Sabbat pack has several songs and anthems as part of their ignoblis ritae

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qbz-4dSdl8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIBd3CGoIfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hAleep6uBI


Their main interests are Russian Orthodoxy and playing video games and watching anime.

Their main enemies are the Protestant Puritan Camarilla vampires in a rival domain.
>>
>>45112183
>>45112620


>The Invictus’ relationship to the Masquerade is complex. On the one hand, it is the Invictus who keeps it. It is their highest tradition. No one upholds the Masquerade like they do, and, as a result, no one is better placed to be in charge. Of course, the Masquerade helps keep the Invictus on top. The Establishment is frighteningly good at using up-to-date methods of keeping in touch, of hammering down rumors and finding ways to blackmail. On the other hand, Invictus leaders get away with things that their neonates can’t, because they’re more able to contain the consequences.

I recommend reading the whole write up, but I wanna highlight one key difference between the shitty terrible Camarilla and the Invictus. The Camarilla rules because... well... they're there? Because they decided they wanted an Establishment that people could hate on because that was the zeitgeist of the era.

The Invictus are useful. Perform an active function. They're not just dickheads who want to be in charge, they're the ones offering you wealth you could've never imagined when you were growing up in the barrio. They're the ones who took care of that first kill for you, no questions asked. They're the ones who swore the Oaths that keep the city's officials from tearing each other apart.

They DO something besides politicking and ruling, and they're damn good at it.
>>
>>45111117
Worse, in my experience.
>>
>>45112666
>this post
wut

>>45112620
>>45112677
I said "sell me on them", not "repost the section of the book I already said I plan to read".
>>
>>45112666

The main enemies of this Sabbat pack are the Protestant Puritan Camarilla and the Atheistic Social Justice Warrior Anarchs, both enemies of the Sabbat and the Russian Orthodox faith.

They shall crush the plutocratic Camarilla coteries and the communist Anarch gangs!

Praise be to Capcom, Square Enix, and the Russian Orthodox Church!
>>
>>45112703

Then read what I said? They do something. They're useful. They provide the structure and the backbone, they're not stuck in some kind of feudal mode anymore (Though they still CAN do that kind of thing)

They can adopt a variety of formats, and hierarchy is the key, because it creates order and stability. They're in charge not because "they're the ones in charge" and not because of a god-complex. They're most often in charge because what they do is important and because they actually HAVE rules and stick to them.

All of this clarified from the weird, Camarilla-esque do nothing power-havers of the first edition.

I said all that before. What else do you want?
>>
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New thread

>>45112836
>>45112836
>>45112836
>>
>>45112743
This version of Sora has no business being this cute.
>>
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>>45112743
Finally, I think this Sabbat game will be awesome!

Does anybody like the idea of this Sabbat chronicle!

I am a proud anime otaku, gamer, and future convert to the Orthodox Christian faith! And this game shall rock your world!

Any other Sabbat fans here?
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