Previous Thread: >>45035780
I'm currently working on a Werewolf cheat sheet for my players, and I've gotta make a Vampire one as well. Mostly just the little things, like "what does this template give you". Anyone care to point out some easy to miss things that the Supers can do? Any super, not just the two I'm running.
Someone else can make cheat sheets for the other supes.
>But it would be a disservice to both splats to not mention in the same breath that only rarely will you find that hasn't prepared some way to get out in an emergency.
There are only two types of mages in the CofD: very dead mages and obsessive, paranoid, and ridiculously prepared mages.
If a mage doesn't soon realize wizarding is extremely dangerous and entirely unpredictable, they'll not likely live long to enjoy their reality-bending abilities.
Dave, will Signs of Sorcery also include crafting of spirit fetishes, supernal alchemy (like the old ToM), and more info on familiars such as improving them with XP or even adding supernal familiars?
I had a player whose character was an averted suicide. She would go around using it to bolster people's self-confidence and save them from suicide. Essentially, she'd motivate people to like her, then she'd put herself in ridiculously bad situations at just the right time and place so they could "save her" and feel good about themselves.
As she fell in Humanity, she began using that pity and sympathy to turn those people into her Herd.
Did she ever get 'confronted' by any other characters on doing that, or discuss her motivations?
I always wonder if some vampires are self-conscious about their method of feeding, or if its impolitic to discuss in explicit terms.
Yeah. In fact, it happened with a player's character. He lost his Vampire PC, so he ended up playing a mortal character. It was pretty intense. She eventually preyed on him, but he had just the right combination of stuff that he was totally aware, and called her on her bullshit. He shook her to the core, and ultimately she ended up facing the sun over it.
>He lost his Vampire PC, so he ended up playing a mortal character.
Huh, not what I expected as a next character choice. That's a pretty cool story though.
I've always wondered how a Supernatural/Mortal cross group would work out, actually. The Big Three's Second Editions so far seem to be more open to the concept. There's nothing stopping someone from being a playable Touchstone as far as I know, Mortals can be part of a Pack knowingly or unknowingly, and it seems that they can be part of an Order as well, though not to the extent that a Sleepwalker or a regular Mage can. Obviously Promethean won't, but I wonder if this trend will continue with Changeling.
>I've always wondered how a Supernatural/Mortal cross group would work out, actually. The Big Three's Second Editions so far seem to be more open to the concept. There's nothing stopping someone from being a playable Touchstone as far as I know, Mortals can be part of a Pack knowingly or unknowingly, and it seems that they can be part of an Order as well, though not to the extent that a Sleepwalker or a regular Mage can. Obviously Promethean won't, but I wonder if this trend will continue with Changeling.
I do them all the time. Most of my home games have at least one mortal/halfsplat character. It was actually one of the reasons we ended up with that ghoul appendix in Requiem 2e.
I've also done a lot of games where everyone has two characters. Like, everyone has a Vampire, and someone else's Touchstone as a side character.
So, /wodg/, my high-level Hunter party just killed a Chthonic Beast from Mummy in one round.
What are some bigger and nastier things I can throw at them? I'm running out of threats.
The problem with ghouls, unlike other mortal or lesser templates, is that they lack free agency. It's difficult to play (or at least enjoy) a character who's a literal blood slave.
They usually are.
I had a friend who wanted me to run a one on one where he was Ghouled to the Prince. He liked playing up that obsessive devotion and also hate. If I had Strange Dead Love we'd probably have used some of that.
Well, if you want to keep the Mummy train going, you could always toss an Ahmkat at them. Bastards only take one Bashing from any attack that's not either committed by a Mummy, inflicted by an ancient weapon of Irem (that a Mummy is almost certainly going to want later), or dealt by nukes. If you want to get really bullshit, give it a Serpent's body and Lion's Claws, and the fucking thing attacks three times per round, as I learned earlier this week in my Mummy game. If that doesn't make your Hunter group break a sweat, I don't know what will. Might as well start throwing Angels at them.
Of course if I've somehow forgotten that Ahmkhats are synonymous with Cthonic Beasts, I apologize. The name's familiar but I can't seem to figure out for the life of me where I've heard it from in Mummy.
>I've also done a lot of games where everyone has two characters. Like, everyone has a Vampire, and someone else's Touchstone as a side character.
Now that sounds like a campaign I could get behind. Just gonna put that in the old to-do shelf. Also, are Ensorcelled Mortals in Changeling 2e, or have they been replaced entirely by the new half-splat?
>I've given up hope on Wraith
The Pack the most. Then other 2e stuff, secrets of the Covenants, Hurt Locker (hoping all the minitemplates have not been spoiled), and Wraith
I've given-up hope of ever seeing A Thousand Years of Night for Vampire 2e.
We've been waiting ages for Secrets of the Covenants, so I imagine Vampire 3e will be out before TYoN.
I maintain the flame for Wraith. I will not let my Specter overtake me, even as the dread Tempest of Rainbow Six: Siege looms. That said I think Dark Eras is probably my most anticipated. March seems likely, given that layout's happening.
I'm also still waiting on Secrets of the Covenants. Gimme that Lancea et Sanctum goodness.
I think Filamena did a pretty good job presenting them in Requiem 2e as more than that. Their agency is complex and interesting to me.
I believe we mention ensorcelled mortals, but they don't get a great degree of attention because they're just people /but/. We might be able to give some more attention to them in The Hedge or Another Book. Probably Another Book. (I can't remember if that's been announced yet?)
What did you think of the Lancea material, particularly the Theban? It was maybe my favorite stuff I got to do in that part of the book. I liked all the mechanics bits, but I had a ton of fun with those rituals.
Sorcery. Sorry. The stuff that got spoiled like... I can't remember when.
I didn't write the fiction side of the Lancea Sanctum; that was Eddy Webb. I just wrote the mechanics chapter.
>Are the mechanics you made up linked to the fiction?
Basically what I did was I wrote like 1/2 to 2/3rds of the content right away. Then, once other people were done, I wrote content to fit in with what they were doing thematically.
The exceptions here being the Circle chapter, because Filamena wrote it. So I worked really close with her to cater my work to her story, and the Carthian chapter, which I wrote. So clearly there's some synergy there. I tried to make it largely subtle though. Like, you won't see specific Carthian Laws mentioned by their Merit names.
>Probably Another Book. (I can't remember if that's been announced yet?)
No, but I'm going to call it that all that same. Currently all we know for CtL 2e is the Core, The Hedge, and the Anthology. Oddly enough, the Onyx Path website puts The Hedge's release date for after the core. I wish that page was a little more up to date.
I'm actually planning to use Flock once the final version of the book is out, I should probably start saving Experiences for it. I actually do like the rituals! Personally I feel like a lot of them come off as endgame type rituals, if that makes sense. Revelatory Shroud seems very niche, but that niche can be a big deal in a more investigation heavy game, and if I weren't playing a lunkhead I'd seriously consider buying it.
The LeS merits and TS spoilers were a looong time ago. From what I recall, they were very good. I do remember, however, that one particular anti-magic merit (Crusade?) had some potential issues.
Has there been a lot of revisions since the spoilers?
I don't remember. Here's the final version of the three abilities.
Shield Against Sorcery (•): This technique filters a lost Theban Sorcery ritual into a practice a non-practitioner (even a Sorcerous Eunuch, see below) can use with a series of military motions. It renders the character’s immediate area something of a “null zone” for sorcery. Your character must be armed to enact Shield Against Sorcery. Any magic targeting your character, or any character within her Willpower dots in yards suffers her Merit dots as a dice pool penalty. This requires your character have full access to her Defense. If multiple crusaders use this ability, only the highest Merit dots apply.
Silence (••): The voice is often the seat of sorcery. For this reason, crusaders train to strike for the enemy’s vocal chords first. If your character targets the enemy’s throat, she suffers no penalties due to the targeted attack. If successful, the attack silences the enemy, which may prevent him from casting spells or using some Disciplines so long as the damage remains.
A Hammer Against Witches (•••): With a well-timed strike, your character may interrupt a sorcerer casting a spell, using her knowledge of the dark arts to find a particularly weak opening. The victim must be casting a spell or ritual of some sort, or a Discipline using an extended action. Spend a Willpower point before making the attack. This Willpower point does not add to the dice pool. Make the attack roll at -2. If successful, the spell or effect is aborted as if it dramatically failed. Additionally, add the victim’s relevant Discipline or sorcery level as an additional weapon modifier to the damage caused. Use the level of the ability he uses; not his highest potential level.
>No, but I'm going to call it that all that same. Currently all we know for CtL 2e is the Core, The Hedge, and the Anthology. Oddly enough, the Onyx Path website puts The Hedge's release date for after the core. I wish that page was a little more up to date.
Yeah. That's really difficult. Like, every week we update the team as to where all our current books are, if they're currently in development. But we don't give projections every week. That'd get really monotonous, and wouldn't really serve a lot of purpose because there are so many parts. And now, we've got a lot of change to deal with thanks to the Paradox buyout. So we're not even sure how long anything will take, just because we're in a transitionary period. Processes are changing, and we've got to get used to them before we can give any sort of remotely accurate predictions.
How is it a problem it let witch hunters be better at hunting witches? I mean you can have it for mages it increases the vamps resistance stat for potency, but then the mage can just ignore the vamp resstance
I think people disliked it because it sounded like you just kind of blocked magic with your weapon. It wasn't my intention, but I could see how someone might read it that way. So I gave it a tonal shift.
(At least, I THINK that's the issue being spoken of? It's been a long time, honestly.)
Yeah, I figured that was the case. Hopefully things'll smooth out as the year goes on. Also only now do I realize that I meant to say that The Hedge's release date is BEFORE the core on the website, with The Hedge projected for Spring 2016 and CtL 2e Core for Summer 2016. Good job, brain.
Oh yeah. That's way inaccurate. I'm close to sending CtL to editing. But I think we've got a bit of a layout bottleneck right now. So even if I rushed it through, it'd be a while. And I've got to finish it and Hurt Locker 100% before I can comfortably move on to The Hedge.
I'd be remiss if I got people working on The Hedge right now, because I'm making a lot of little tweaks to CtL, and I want them writing to what the game will be, not what the drafts currently are. If they write to what the drafts currently are, we'll get a book that looks like VtR's The Blood, and I don't want that.
David, I want to take a second to thank you for clearing up a lot of the beef I had with CtL 2e in a prior thread. I'm still very, very nervous about the new edition, but I'm now willing to give it a chance because of you.
Thank you. I do what I can to weigh commentary. It's why I do as much publicly as I can. I just wish I had time and mental bandwidth to do it more.
You're very welcome. In the end, I hope you like it. But I respect if you don't. At very least, I hope that if you don't like it, you can see why I made some of the choices I did, and that I didn't make them lightly.
Me too. But, I dig it more this way. I like this sort of "null zone" thing. Also, it enabled me to add a Magical Eunuch Merit to reflect characters who have been rendered completely unable to use magic, and who are much, much more resistant to it. That was something I originally wanted, but cut because I figured it was too core to a specific concept. In retrospect, I basically said fuck it, and figured it was a cool enough concept that the game served to benefit from its inclusion.
Hay david what do you mean "this requires your character have full access to her defense" do you mean that they must be aware of the effect in question? What about effects that ignore defense such as that arrow merit that let mages shot spells like guns?
I believe you're aware of how poignant a metaphor the first edition of the game was, and that's important. I'm just not sure if lightning can strike twice.
Anytike someone revises your favorite game,mit's bound to be a little nerve-wracking.
If they've taken an attack, they still have their Defense unless it was like an all-out attack or they used a Merit which sacrifices Defense.
And yeah. They've basically had the spark of magic removed from them by a church ritual.
because you only ever post the exact same sentiments and you write it the same way
it makes you sound like a pathetic broken record who has no further engagement with the material than their empty posts aimed at nobody
get some friends to talk about this shit with so you're at least not posting the exact same things the exact same way over and over again
Yeah, it's pretty obvious.
And while sure, some people are nervous about it, I feel like it's the same with Aspel's whole, "a bunch of Japanese people hate you because your Tokyo stuff" thing. It's not like it's some resounding mandate of people.
Speaking of that: What do you guys want to see in Changeling's Tokyo Court? I have some ideas already, but I'm not set in stone about it yet. I'm curious what you think.
I never make that objective value judgment. Seasonal Courts are used in the Miami example, but I never really say whether they're a majority, minority, or whatever. I want to avoid making that statement.
That's probably a pretty big part of the direction I'm taking. I played mostly modern focus with Vampire, and a focus on the past with Mage (to sort of play with expectations). For this, I'll be doing a blend of the two.
I do feel like I should defend myself by saying that I ask lots of questions here in /wodg/ and that I pitch a lot of content as well. I generally steer clear of homebrew because I'm not Aspel, but there's some good stuff of mine on the forums.
You can only tell it's me when I'm doing thngs you don't like, basically. It's why I don't wear a trip.
Sorry for the blog post
The disadvantage is that it's a double-bladed sword. I kept the ritual vague because I think it's better to keep personal. Also, because I didn't want to delve into torture porn. But, yeah. Here it is:
Sorcerous Eunuch (•)
Prerequisites: Resolve •••
Effect: Your character has been subject to a series of terrifying rituals and experiments, which affords him a near-immunity to sorcery. Any dice pool for a magical effect targeting your character suffers his Resolve as a penalty. If you spend a Willpower point at the time of the effect, instead remove successes from the caster’s roll equal to his Resolve.
As result of this, he can never learn Theban Sorcery, Crúac, or any other blood sorceries.
This practice is often used on Lancea et Sanctum crusaders. Sometimes, this is used as a punishment on captured enemies. The ritual requires almost a month of captivity, and can be committed by any character with four or more dots in Theban Sorcery.
I figure that Changelings in general are fans of tradition, because the old ways are the ones that tend to work w/r/t the Gentry, but I'm sure the young Lost of Tokyo - like the young mortals - couldn't care less what their elders think.
>Sure, it's one thing to be the only person talking about Mummy
Where the hell were you when there was a big talk about how to implement the Mummy cosmology for a 2e, and how to hack the 1e system a couple threads back? That discussion was cool. Unless you were in it, in which case I apologize.
I'm gonna second the tradition/innovation dichotomy. Would it be too much to ask for a Chrysanthemum Court, for kind of obvious reasons?
I imagine that the Ordo Dracul would love to learn the secrets of the ritual.
I'm also curious how merits such as this will interact with the new Awakened magic system in Mage 2e, such as the Withstood mechanic and what would happen with spells that aren't Withstood at all.
Well it does say any magical effect. So i would say so. Also its a lot more costly the the first crusader merit. Thay have to boost their resolve which cost double compared to increasing weaponry.
I'm only here for every third thread or so, but I /have/ made some pretty nice connections between Mummy cosmology and my dubious personal canon for the metaphysics of Geist.
Chiefly that the Deceived Temakh are to the Shan'iatu as Geists (is Geister the proper plural there?) are to human beings.
Geister is in fact the proper plural. I remember that theory, it's a pretty good one, and still pretty solid after Dreams of Avarice. If we're looking for crossover opportunities for Mummy, I think if it wasn't clear before that Duat's a Lower Depth, Book of the Decieved and Dreams of Avarice pretty much seal the deal. Starry A'aru's probably one too. Wherever the hell Ammut lives is absolutely one.
Does anyone have any cool Mummy cults?
I've got an NPC who basically manages a combination of the Payday gang and 50 Blessings (from Hotline Miami), and I'm cooking up another who has a wounded warrior cult with roots back in either Rome or the crusader states.
But supernal magic works on abyssal entities, which are living antimagic, so that doesn't *really* make sense, does it?
>tl;dr the Shan'iatu physically pulled Irem intact into the lowest reaches of the Underworld and crowned themselves its Kerberoi
>the Temakh of the Deceived got screwed out of the deal and were shattered into geist equivalents, bound to the Deceived
>as all Dead Dominions lay beyond the rivers, Irem awaits beyond the dead reflection of The River - the dead reflection of the Nile
All this ties in with Ammut being the CofD's analogue to Oblivion and the Wyrm, with her lurking at the bottom of the universe as entropy personified.
Dreams of Avarice fucks this up slightly, but gives us the much more concise "Duat is a Lower Depth, and the fundamental thing it lacks is Sekhem."
Well I would say that creatures are going to have a natural defense against mages. Such as some of the enemy the mage can't make the spell unresisted. Besides the srix are from the lower depths and their immune to all damage that not aggravated.
Still fleshing it out, but I've got an Arisen whose Cult is a music corporation. Think Atlantic Records meets YG Entertainment. I figure the Cult probably fights the forces of Am-Hanuset all the time.
One thing I love about Ammut is that she isn't just a mindless force of hunger and destruction; she's clever. Irem wasn't just devoured, it was bargained away to her as part of a devilish deal.
The Shuankhsen might be my favorite antagonists of any line.
It doesn't necessarily have to be The Orpheus Group (but man that'd be cool) but I'd love a Compact or Conspiracy solely focused on ghosts, especially with how weird Ghosts are in CofD. An extended Ghost Adventures joke is also fine, but I think paranormal reality shows are officially too old hat for Hunter 2e to talk about.
I think it's cool, because it's dangerous on a bunch of levels. The Judges and the Arisen would be on their ass, but so would Ammut. I doubt that she'd want the cat out of the bag without it being on her terms.
The Carthian fighting style is totally busted. You start out by pushing everything into your first attack to make sure you don't need a second.
I love it. I let a player take it in my Pirate Geist game that fell through. It feels like the kind of merit that really shouldn't have the "Must be a Carthian" Prereq.
Why bother with -2 on the attack roll? Also, can't you just interrupt an Extended action with an attack anyway? Everyone else hated it and went "but what about the mages!" but I loved the whole "I can cut spells" thing, and thought it just needed cleaner rules.
>I think people disliked it because it sounded like you just kind of blocked magic with your weapon.
But that's awesome. I mean, I hate the Lance because their core concept of "whoops, you fell for my magic seduction, time to die" but I like magical anti-magic crusaders battling darkness, and that's the kind of thing I could port over to a Malleus Maleficarum Hunter.
Is "Flat Footed" copyrighted or something?
I didn't say a bunch, I said at least two. Besides, I'm more than a one note complainer.
As for Tokyo Changeling: Urashima Taro is sort of a given. It's basically the Japanese Rip Van Winkle, and definitely a Changeling story.
People can tell it's you because you use the same phrases, and you type in the same way. You even make the same spelling mistakes, come to think of it. Likewise, I know >>45063351 is probably the guy who calls me faggot-kun each thread, since he has no shift key.
That's me, not him. And true, but I'm not sure what to put on it. I've got like six active Google Docs, but outside of putting up the Tzimisce 2e write up, nothing worth putting on the blog. I want to figure out a better Bane before I do that, though.
Another merit that would fit Hunter...
Mage Magic works on Patterns. Perhaps the secret to this ritual's success is that it removes part of your Pattern. Or obscures it through metaphysical scar tissue.
Yeah, but the "Flat footed" term could still work as a shorthand of saying "denied your defense". or something. I hate wordiness.
True enough. But it would still only cover part of loss of defence. Such as when being attacked by a gun most people loss their defence to that, but their not flat footed they see it coming.
You know at this point I'm arguing semantic.
If you use a term in your game, you get to decide what it means. "Flat footed" in D&D means "denied your dexterity bonus to Armour Class before your action". In nWoD it could simply be defined as "unable to use your full defense due to sacrificing it or being ambushed".
A cult dedicated to Her-Uru, made up of the disenfranchised and homeless. At night, they wear deathmasks and spread terror among the criminal masses.
My Girlfriend really wanted to play Batman...
Does this seem like a reasonable interpretation of spirit rank for people who've not played before?:
1 - Commoners
2 - NPC class levels
3 - PC class levels 1-15
4 - PC class levels 16-20
5 - Epic level PCs
>Any dice pool for a magical effect targeting your character suffers his Resolve as a penalty.
Does "magical effect" in this case have a specific meaning that is different from "supernatural effect"?
Because the effects of Disciplines and their equivalents in other splats feel like magic/supernatural, but if the Merit also affects their dicepools it's weird that it only closes of access to Theban Sorcery, Crúac and other blood sorceries.
Why would it?
How's that Batman?
I'm not saying the whole thing needs to be based around Urashima Taro, just that it's a thing that's pretty Changeling.
Rank X: Insects and plants and rats and stuff
Rank ●: Low level problems
Rank ●●: Tough customers and your average monster
Rank ●●●: A miniboss
Rank ●●●●: A boss fight
Rank ●●●●●: Big Bad
Rank ●●●●● ●+: Literal deities
What would said courts do? Subcultures as courts could be a cool thing for something like Tokyo or maybe New York. Although I can't think of anywhere that wears subculture on its sleeve as much as Tokyo. Other than high school. The problem with that is you either get really small Courts where there are twelve Courts but each one only has about ten people, or you get Courts that would cover several different subcultures.
Still, interesting thing to think about. Maybe something along the lines of Fashion, Hobbies, Delinquency...
Court of Otaku would be interesting. Maybe feeding off the emotion of Obsession? Their schtick is making everyone buy dakimakura and overpriced train kits.
She played her Sheut Mesen-Nebu Arisen as basically Batman. Claiming fear transfigured people into better sources of Sekhem while punishing those who spread fear. (Because Judges are dicks like that).
Her whole cult wore masks and terrorized the criminal underworld at night while pretending to be something else during the day. They were the Night, they were Vengeance. She even styled herself after Camazotz.
She was trying very hard to be Batman.
So I finally forced my way to the end of Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines.
That game was not as good as people lead me to believe it was. That game wasn't even as good as the game itself lead me to believe it was. Up until halfway through Hollywood I was enjoying the game and loving it, thinking to myself how well designed the levels were, and how they a good job of offering up alternate paths for people who wanted to lock pick and sneak through places instead of murdering everyone.
After the Nosferatu Warrens, the game went downhill. The little Geodude Tzimisce abominations stopped being terrifying after the fifth jumpscare in a row where I had to beat one to death, and then I get thrown into unavoidable boss fights in a giant sprawling D&D dungeon in the sewers. Every good thing I loved about the game went out the window. The ending would have been much more satisfying if I hadn't used cheatcodes for all weapons and godmode and *still* found it tedious to make my way through the Giovanni catacombs, the fucking Society of Leopold, Hollowbrook Hotel, the Kuei-Jin temple, and fucking twelve floors of bulletproof guards that I can't sneak past or suck on. Not only is the combat a fucking slog, turned up to 11 in the last third of the game, every fucking boss battle is a battle with a bullet sponge. Andrei's return having torches hanging around is a nice touch, but other than that all of the boss fights are wasted potential. The Chiropteran Behemoth is the final boss of the game, but feels dumb and pointless and the battle was a clusterfuck for me.
I said fuck it to Anarchs, Cammies, and Kuei-jin. I still kind of want to know what happens in the other endings, but it runs like shit on my computer, which is from a year after the game came out. Even with the Plus Patch, it's a buggy mess.
Also? The story doesn't make a lick of sense. I never played Masquerade, but I know enough about it, and none of that shit makes sense. So the cabbie is Caine? Fucking *why*?
Rank 1 and 2 are called out in text as being animals and children.
So use Rats/Dogs and Kobolds or Unclassed Goblins.
Rank 3 is more PC class 5-15, 4 is PC class 16-20 w Prestige Class, 5 is Epic level
Seriously I don't care for the ending. I think it's stupid. I think there's absolutely no reason for the cabbie to be Caine, and I don't understand why at all Jack would set this whole thing in motion just to blow up LaCroix. The two apparently have no history together, and if Jack and Caine are working together, that just begs the question of WHY. Nevermind that there *is* a King Messerach, yet apparently there's no reason for him to have Lamastu on his sarcophagus or for all the problems surrounding it to have happened. There's so many unanswered questions here:
2. What happened on the Elizabeth Dane?
3. Why would Caine want to do all this in the first place? "To teach the Camarilla a lesson to not mess with the Antedeluvians" as my friend thinks? What does that accomplish and why would he care? It goes against all the characterization he's got.
4. Why does Beckett warn you? Did Jack tell him about the bombs? *Why*?
5. When did Jack even have the opportunity to put a bomb in the sarcophagus?
The other thing that frustrates me is how underused most of the characters are. I realize my game was buggy and I wasn't getting half the quests (like getting Bertrum his CD, doing things for Mitnick, whatever Isaac wanted to give me, anything from VV after killing Chastity, completing the restaurant review quest) but so many of the characters don't actually matter to the overall story. Why do I give a shit if Xiao Ming needs to die? She's barely in the game. Neither are Isaac, or Tourette once you complete her quest. I went back to Asylum every time I was in Santa Monica and they were still standing there like Janus with half make up and the gun like I never left. Hell, I can tell Damsel all of one thing but she gets the most fanart. Jack barely feels in the game enough to be behind it all
Everyone wants a sequel to Bloodlines, but fuck me, I want a remake. I want what this game was supposed to be before Activision forced a half finished mess out the door
That is an incredibly dumb thing to say.
I played it with the Unofficial Patch Plus, or WESP patch. I still had problems. I don't know if I'll have them when I do a Malkavian playthrough or not.
If I do finally do a Malk playthrough, I'm just going to noclip the fuck through everything. Especially during the second half of the game. Or maybe try to mod it myself and take out a good deal of the enemies and make them less stupid.
No, it just makes zero sense to say, and is baity. VtM and WtA have always been "SJW", when they're not being as equally racist or fetishizing the exotic. The only reason this "age of SJW" would prevent a VtM or WtA game is because the things White Wolf was doing ten or twenty years ago now feels cliche and everyone's doing it. I mean, we're not exactly living in an egalitarian utopia, but after an openly transgender person appears on the cover of Time (and another in Vanity Fair), it's hard to go "look how edgy we are, supporting the gays! Take THAT mainstream!"
Unless you're one of those people who thinks it's bad that Ravnos aren't shyster Gypsies anymore.
A few threads ago, there was a discussion about whether a mage could apprentice another mage of a different Path. Dave stated it was possible, and noted some pros and cons.
On a similar note, is it either socially permissible or acceptable for a mage to apprentice a mage of a different Order? Do mages normally choose or join an order before or after their apprenticeship?
It's because people will complain now if you make a game where all Middle Eastern people are terrorist assassins and all Irish people are drunks, not even getting into the Captain Planeteers angle and the sexism of the GoF and BF.
>Unless you're one of those people who thinks it's bad that Ravnos aren't shyster Gypsies anymore.
You're acting like they should keep the absolute worst aspects of VtM if they make another game.
V20 already toned down some of that stuff, so hopefully VTM4 will be a step in the right direction.
Toning down some of the stuff was good. In other cases, not so much. Like, I get the Ravnos no longer being a bunch of shyster gypsies. I agree with that. I agree with the Cult of Ecstasy wanting to be called Shahajiya so that people would stop for once stereotyping them all as sexomancers.
I think it was kind of silly to change the "Akashic Brotherhood" and "Sons of Ether" into "Akashics" and "Ether Society" just because the former titles "exclude women". Like, it's going a little bit far, in my opinion.
>You're acting like they should keep the absolute worst aspects of VtM if they make another game.
They're key aspects of it. The Assamites are Assassins, it's in their identity, just like turning into black people and Lasombra being swarthy Spaniards while Ventrue are more traditional (or American), and Malkavians represent a horribly outdated view of mental illness while Nossies are so ugly (and ugly is often linked with fat) their only friends are vermin.
>I think it was kind of silly to change the "Akashic Brotherhood" and "Sons of Ether" into "Akashics" and "Ether Society" just because the former titles "exclude women". Like, it's going a little bit far, in my opinion.
I think the idea of re-naming the Traditions to keep up with the times is fine (Society of Ether in particular because it sounds pulpier), but you do touch on a problem I have with the attempt to re-name the Traditions in M20: They don't own the changes. The original names are still there, sometimes in even bigger words! Not to mention some of the naming choices are bizzare, and in the case of the Akashic Brotherhood, really weak. Like, not the "Way of Do" or "The Akashic Temple" or something with flavor, just "Akashics"? Why would I call the Virtual Adepts the Mercurial Elite in a time where Virtual Reality is being a Thing again? Like I get that Brucato wanted to update the names and that you have to protect your trademarks, but if you can't go full throated into it, what's the point? Even with some of the good re-names, I'm still going to call them by their original name because that's what's on the character page!
>is it either socially permissible or acceptable for a mage to apprentice a mage of a different Order? Do mages normally choose or join an order before or after their apprenticeship?
I would imagine that apprenticeship is one of the primary means of Order recruitment.
Yes, totally. Mages normally choose to join an Order before their first apprenticeship, and then switch to being the student of whoever's teaching them their Legacy (if anyone) once they "graduate."
Your first tutor is more likely to be in the same Order as you. Your Legacy mentor, once you reach that stage, doesn't have to be.
Why is that going too far? I mean... is that really a dealbreaker for you? That the names are now gender neutral?
They're not key aspects.
>Ugly is often linked with fat
I don't think I've ever seen a fat Nosferatu.
To be fair, "Akashics" is a cool enough word that you don't need anything else.
If master (tutor?) and apprentice belong to different Orders, when and how does the apprentice learn Order-specific information like rote skills, Order merits and other Order secrets?
How long is a "typical" apprenticeship? Do most consilia have formal rules about apprenticeship, or is it governed largely by custom or Order rules? Is it very atypical for mages to have more than one apprentice at a given time?
How many players do you feel is "enough" to run a game? I'm down to three players for my not-yet-started Werewolf game, and I'm almost done with preludes with all my fourth players being not interested enough or difficult as people.
Do any of you run NPC stand ins? I hate when NPCs talk to each other, so I try not to have more than one "on screen" at a time.
It's almost to the point I'm tempted to recruit from /wodg/. But then I'd have to find somewhere else to get my ideas.
But we are not sure how it works. There could be a number of a reasons why. Such as the establishes a null zone that weaken supernatural, their sacrifice to god protects them from outside magical effects, the ritual linger and disrupts incoming magical effects, lastly they could have tap into the 6th watch tower and it in turn could protect them from magical effects. Futher would it not be a great mystery for mages in lore to have no idea it would be a great and dangerous hunt for knowledge.
Akashic's a cool word, but it doesn't really get across the vibe of Akashic Brotherhood as well, hence the need for more flavor. It can be a decent nickname though.
That's ultimately the problem with the re-namings. They've already got the disadvantage of being put in a book that's straight up a nostalgia book, that they as a whole don't have as much force as the names they're supposed to replace could be makes it worse.
If their formal (in mage society) mentor is in a different Order, there'll be someone in their Order whose job it is to teach them their rote skills, rotes, and indoctrinate them appropriately. Remember, also - most mages' Orders are basically their "job"; if you're a junior Guardian, it doesn't matter if the person recognised by the city as having responsibility for you is a Mystagogue because she's of the same Path and you clicked personality-wise, you'll still be getting missions from your nearest Cultor.
What does it look like when a Demon switches Cover? Do they shapeshift into the appearance of the new person? Or is it more like a video game/camera glitch, where they visually spaz out for a second, and are just suddenly the other person?
Iunno, I haven't read M20 and I'm not a Mage fan. I'm just in favour of gender neutral phrasing and think Akashic is a cool word. I know nothing about them, but I like single noun group names. Adds a bit of mystery. Needs a definite article, though.
They immediately become the other person, so long as they aren't observed.
3-5 is the optimum size for tabletop groups, from my experience. Your group size is perfectly fine. Me, I never use NPC stand-ins. You work with the players you have, no more and no less.
After the last time a thread regular asked for players for their game, I wouldn't recommend recruiting from WoDG. Stick to your friends.
Thanks. I really hope the ins and outs of apprenticeship and actually learning about magic and the Practices (along with other important social aspects of mage life) are discussed in depth in the new corebook or Tome of the Pentacle.
What happened? Unless you mean that guy freaking out on me because he thought I passed him over in a VTMB inspired game.
I guess I'll just give them a few more Wolfblooded, and leave them with their Totem as it is.
Missed this one.
Spirit Fetishes: No, because it's a spell in the 2e corebook.
Alchemy: Ehh, kind of. Spells to put spells "into" preparations as one-shot items, yes, but nowhere near as needlessly complicated as in TotM
Supernal Familiars: No, and the gameline won't for the forseeable, as the notion of what a Familiar is became incompatible with Supernal Entities in the edition change. We might have a Merit for "you have attracted the attention of a Supernal Entity of your Path who keeps showing up when you use your Sight, and is easier to summon", that you could then spend Allies dots on, but "Familiar" means the specific Mana-to-Essence bond sparing an ephemeral entity from Essence Bleed.
Familiar xp... No. Ephemeral Entities are really only differentiated by Rank, and the Familiar Merit comes in two costs depending on if it's Rank 1 or Rank 2. Want to improve a Rank 1 Familiar? Buy the next level of the Merit. If the entity goes to Rank 3, the Familiar bond snaps.
How do you feel about Allies/Retainer for non-human entities?
A Thyrsus or vampire with Animalism taking Allies (City Animals) to represent their eyes and ears around the city? Or Ghost/Spirit Retainers?
The Wyrm is repeatedly spoken to as The Maw of Oblivion in multiple books. Grand Mah is also said to be an avatar of Oblivion. If you believe the Mage's to be correct, then this is the answer.
I think gender neutral names are cool too, but here's the thing: Akashic comes from Akasha, or Sky. "Akashic" itself came out of Theosophy, and is common in New Age practice and thought. One could ask why an explicitly Western neologism is used for a group of kung-fu wizards who name their fighting style after the Tao, but it is twenty years too late to ask that question. "The Akashics" just means something akin to "The Skies", it doesn't really say "here is where you play the Kung Fu Wizards". "Akashic Brotherhood" doesn't quite get it across either but it's still a step towards that. This is all going to be a moot point, though, because there's no way in hell Dracula's not just going to use the original names for One World of Darkness Mage.
Is the "alchemy" you describe just a "lesser" version of the Prime Imbuement endowment?
Are spirit fetishes demonstrably different than imbued items in terms of practical application?
Can the stats, numina and influences of basic familiars be raised during play? If so, does it require the player to spend regular or arcane experience?
You should also definitely include a specific merit in SoS to permit a supernal "pet" or friend. Every Obrimos or Mastigos should have a cherubim or imp sidekick, respectively.
Wrong post, I'm assuming you meant >>45068677 but I'm not too worried about THAT happening, since I have nothing to leak, other than people complaining about me.
Although that's far from the last time someone got players from here.
It does! The Akashic records are a mostly Western style of thought, and you'll see it a lot in New Age circles, hence why it was used in Mage the Ascension in the way that it is. The 90 and early 2000s was pretty much peak New Age.
I think the Akashic Records are a pretty cool concept, and could use more love in games.
I thought the wraith core book explicitly say that the Wyrm and Oblivion are different? Besides a word can be used to describe completely different things. Such as changeling and mage both have fetchs but they are extremely different.
All the books aside from Demon have very flawed information. Hell, even the Mage's think that Gaia is capital G God, but she isn't.
In the end it is up to storyteller discretion, but the "default " is that The Wyrm and Oblivion are the same, in the sense that there is The Devourer, The Corruptor and the Annihilator wyrms
No. And you mean Summoned, I think, as they're not ephemeral entities and don't materialize.
A Demon only exists for any Mastigos looking at it, unless they Summon it fully into Fallen reality. The exception is at Supernal Verges of the correct Path, where they're visible to everyone.
And if you can see them, they can see you.
That sounds about right. Gotta love youtube's ability to fuck up all your recommendations with a single video. Spirit Science is great though, the idea of New Age nonsense being told in an Extra Credits style of all things is such a joy to see made manifest.
>A Demon only exists for any Mastigos looking at it
Would that apply to all Mastigos using Mage Sight or only one particular Mastigos
So if a mage properly summons a supernal entity into Fallen reality, then mages from all Paths (and everyone else?) can see and interact with it?
>And if you can see them, they can see you
Is that always a bad thing? Are supernal entities now inherently hostile to mages?
>Is that always a bad thing? Are supernal entities now inherently hostile to mages?
I don't think so, but they... are what they are. Like, demons are all about punishing your weakness until you become strong.
>Oh, no - you can synch another Mage up to your Sight with a spell.
>How can we exploit this?
I doubt mages syncing their Sight has much room serious abuse.
The real issue is the deleterious effects of revealing Mage Sight to Sleepers, as per Dave's spoiled Prime spell Apocalypse.
Yes, you can be an apprentice of any other mage. Sharing a Path has the upside of definitely qualifying you for their Legacy and having practical experience on hand for dealing with your Supernal World, not sharing one gives you a broader perspective and - eventually, if they're a Master - someone to teach you past your Path's limits in odd Arcana.
>Sharing a Path has the upside of definitely qualifying you for their Legacy
Do Mages normally want to join their original Mentor's Legacy? I thought it was usually the case that one's Legacy Mentor wasn't usually one's original "how do I Mage" Mentor.
Pugmire kickstarter's up. Mentioning it here since this is usually also the "White Wolf/OPP-except-for-Exalted" general.
The new editions of Scion and Trinity could still be years away despite their announcement ages ago, but the talking dog project already has a Kickstarter.
I'm now predicting we'll see Pugmire 2e before Mage is done with layout.
The goal wasn't very high compared to their various "deluxe edition" kickstarters.
For example, you get the book at the $40 tier rather than the $80+ we've seen for the other Kickstarted books.
Pugmire has been a thing for a long time, and it's a passion project by one guy, mostly. The people doing Scion/Trinity/etc are contracted and have other work they need to be doing. Not to mention designing an entire new system, while Pugmire seems to be basically a 5e D&D OGL project.
I know. I'm just disgruntled because the wait for Mage 2e has been interminable, and despite the announcement of the new Trinity a very long time ago, it too appears nowhere near completion.
A game about talking dogs will not ease the pain.
Having pledged and gotten a look at D&D, I'm pretty sure it's either 5e OGL or very very heavily based on 5e D&D. Same six attributes and modifiers, build characters with ideals/bonds/flaws, "roll 2d20 and take the higher/lower" mechanics, D&D spells...
They change some words around ("edge" and "handicap" instead of "advantage" and "disadvantage", "stamina points" instead of "hit points", "aptitudes" instead of "proficiencies", "defense" instead of "Armor class", and I haven't played enough 5e to tell you what "Tricks" are, yet, but they seem to be analogous to either feats, class abilities, or some mixture of the two), but it's basically 5e D&D.
I don't see any class level-up charts, so character advancement might be somewhat more freeform than standard D&D (and is probably where "Tricks" come into play), though.
I have no idea if they're watermarked, so I don't really want to.
Maybe you'll have luck with someone else who's less paranoid. I think you get it with any pledge level and the minimum is $5, so I imagine some other people will pledge.
Huh, OK. That sounds fine by me. Could be a good intro to cruncher RPGS for kids and their families. It helps that Pugmire's setting gives me 80s/90s Saturday Morning Cartoon vibes.
It's definitely designed to be something gamer parents can play with their kids, and the like, yeah.
Definitely not the usual White Wolf "ADULT MATURE GAMES FOR MATURE ADULTS" fare.
Would Sodor be a good location within the World of Darkness?
>Level caps out at 10
>at level 10 your character is an Old Dog, and can therefore no longer learn new Tricks.
Just to clarify Boulder would be a spirit of that particular part of the Island who got rather ticked off when the workmen started to build the quarry into it.
He's is most likely Rank 3 or above as that is all it really takes for a spirit to influence the real world, and one of his numina lets him relocate things within his territory which is how he's able to come up behind Rusty when he quite clearly went down a different route to him. Why his least complex physical manifestation is a rock with an angry face I'll never know.
Is there such a thing as an internet spirit? Or would it be a computer spirit? If the former, would websites have their own spirits, or would it be a spirit of the WWW?
Would a spirit with influences Hedonism and internet/computer be considered a magath?
Well that's a fucking disappointment. The thing I've probably waiting most for in this project is to see how they handled the rules system. I'm always fascinated by those aimed at young children. They need to be truly, ingeniously crafted in order to be engaging, simple and clear enough for that task.
It looks like 5th ed with everything simplified down by a huge margin, levels capping at 10 and no class abilities, only options relating to breed and callings that you can pick one of a level