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RPGs with a social science background
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Any game ambience with complex and realistic social sciences themes? Even if it's fantasy or sci-fi, i'm talking about realism in social structures, with history, sociology, anthropology influence.


For example Glorantha it's a fantasy world, but it's clearly set in the bronze age, with tons of civilizations and cultures, lots of religions and diversity. Not like the Warcraft world which is more centered in characters, civilizations are anachronic and they don't care too much about culture.

Another example: Eclipse Phase, an sci-fi game realistic about what could happen with humanity in the future, with good descriptions of culture, new social structures, new traditions, politics, philosophy, etc.
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>>44989909
Those are the only two I can think of man.
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>>44990065
That's kinda sad. RPGs has so much potential for being deep and complex, not only in mechanics.
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>>44990325
Well the focus for them goes into making them FUN TO PLAY, so mechanical focus is a must in most cases, and only after can they expand into other regions you know? Before anything else, a game must be fun.
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>>44990403
Yeah that's obvious. But this is just too much IMO, videogames are getting more complex than RPGs.
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Shock: Social Science Fiction is all about this.

Dog Eat Dog is a game where one player plays colonists, and the other players are all natives. Colonisation is inevitable, the question is how it shakes out - a brutal genocide, or a slow integration and cultural erasure.
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One of the creators of Heroquest made a game in the bronze age where your people have food but need other things to survive, forgot the name.

Also there's an swedish indie studio focused in more deep games. Forgot the name too.
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>>44990473
>Dog Eat Dog
hey that sounds fun and different. I like games where players are rivals.
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>>44990473
do you've the PDF? can't find it
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bumpan
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The guy that wrote the World Tree RPG took classes in anthropology before writing the game, I think?
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Eclipse Phase has a strong sociological and political bent, with a heavy focus on alternative currencies, weird social structures etc.
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>>44991994
Op already mentioned Eclipse Phase.
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>>44989909
>realistic social sciences
>Eclipse Phase
I'm sorry, but when a core mechanic distinguishes between mental attributes and physical ones it isn't anywhere near current understandings of neuroscience or even basic biology.
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>>44992399
except that plenty of morphs also effect your mental attributes.

The baseline mental attributes are just ones that you get to transfer between bodies because they're effected by your memories and experiences and personality, but if you get a morph with a particularly well put together brain, then yeah, it will make you smarter.

It's just that your physical attributes are -entirely- the focus of whatever body you are in. Where as mental attributes are at least partially a matter of training, memories, etc.
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>>44992399

Those aren't social sciences, though?
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>>44992399
>neuroscience or even basic biology

Neither of which are social sciences.

If you want to complain about Eclipse Phase ignoring economics, politics, sociology or psychology, you should complain about the anarchists, or how human labor exists at all despite dumb AI being able to get any profession skill up to 80, equivalent to the finest human minds in the Solar System
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>>44993991
That's because of artificial scarcity forced by capitalist hypercorps and other systems that are based on that.

And i don't see the problem with anarchists
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>>44994850
>And i don't see the problem with anarchists

Take the dev dick out of your mouth anarkiddo
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>>44989909
Dude, look up Tekumel, especially the original Empire of the Petal Throne. Designer was a professor of history and languages, and built the whole damned thing from the ground up with input from players for something like forty years. It's utterly fucking insane in its level of detail, but it's actually startlingly good.
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>>44994904
i'm still missing your point. Entirely, i don't get what you're trying to say.
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>>44994974
fucking awesome. Sounds like Glorantha, it's also a work of 50 years. Thanks thanks thanks
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>>44992399
>neuroscience
>biology
>social sciences
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>>44989909
>Glorantha
The fuck is that?
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>>44995744
You don't know how to argue and how to read. Why are you here then? Troll
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>>44995784
oohhh you're missing something big boy.
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>>44995276
I've got no personal experience with it (unlike EPT or Glorantha), but I also hear that Harn has a well-developed world. No idea on the authors' credentials, however, nor on the plausibility of the world.
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>>44995784
See
>>44987106
>>
>>44995744
There is nothing wrong with Reddit.
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>>44995784
It's a really big fantasy world created by a hippie in the 60s. Shit evolved into a tableboard game, then a RPG (Runequest), a videogame (King of the Dragon Pass) and then a SHIT TON of RPGs based in Runequest and finally Heroquest.

It's set in the bronze age, spirituality and gods are real and have a lot of influence in the world. Besides that everything it's realistic, based in real human history, religions, and cultures.

Unlike Tekumel the world is primarily focused in the Dragon Pass, an small but important region in the northern continent where a lot of cultures and non-human creatures live in a constant conflict that's going to end in a final destructive war.
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>>44994904
>in-game faction having a particular philosophy=author has said philosophy

I hope you are joking.
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>>44996175

What should I buy to get started with this? PnP RPG.
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>>44996590
Jesus. First you should play King of Dragon Pass, it's a nice way to get you introduced to the world and it's really fun. You can play it on PC, Android and iOS. It's a nice game to play on your cellphone if you've long commutes.

Sooo, PnP RPG. There are two big RPGs based in Glorantha, both really different from each other: Runequest and Heroquest. The first one is the oldest of all the games that exist. It's a classic simulationist RPG with a lot of mechanics for everything, the game is hard, you usually play as a normal human or creature (not a hero), the fights are fun and gruesome. It's not easy to change the world (it's a simulation of a real world after all).

Heroquest is a narrativist RPG, really really focused on narration. The idea of the game is to imitate classic epic poems/novels, so you play as a hero in constant contact with his own spirituality, the gods, and the great characters and heroes of his time. The mechanics are not that hard to learn, there are many ways to lose and win, and it's easy to change the world because you're a hero. There are not so many numbers, and it's a classless system so you can be anything, even a farmer that doesn't fight at all.

There are other systems, all of them derivations of Runequest. A lot of people like Legends, and older version of Moongose and Chaosium runequest. BTW, the last Runequest is number 6, but it's a generic system, the Glorantha version will be published this year i think.
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>>44997105
Also there's a fate version in kickstarter

Now if you just want to learn about the whole world of Glorantha, not an specific game, download the Guide to Glorantha. It's 1000 pages long heh, but only by seeing the illustrations you get an idea of how wide is the world. You can have a game based in places like China, or Japan, or aztecs, or africans, or nordic barbarians, or romans, or egyptians (this is just a way to name the diverse cultures)
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>>44996500
>the Eclipse Phase devs aren't massive SJWs

I hope you are joking
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>>44997876
As soon as you provide support for your claim I will take your opinion out of the trash.
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>>44998005
dude he's a troll, jesus fuck nobody says SJW anymore.
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>>44989909
Is there a Dune RPG?
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>>44998843
Fuck off disinfo agent.
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>>44996026
There's a lot wrong with it actually, but wing a redditor you likely disregard it
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>>44995951
I came here to mention Tekumel, but my job is done.

I am experienced with Harn, and it is indeed an intricate and highly detailed setting. However, it still smacks of its late 60s literary fantasy origin, and is more or less a Tolkien derived fantasy world. I do quite like it, but I don't think that it counts for what OP wants.

There was a Swedish game called Khelataar, set in a low fantasy bronze age in transition to iron age, with quite a bit of cultural detail (nicely illustrated material culture, too).

A modern game called Shock pertains to Social Science Fiction. I haven't read it closely, but it does seem to deal with the interaction of individual psychology with the changing mores of society. It does not have a detailed setting, though, but provides examples.
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>>44999579
>Is there a Dune RPG?

One official, by Last Unicorn. Some BURNING FATE DUNGEON APOCALYPSE WHEEL HACK game setting book is Dune with the names changed, it's apparently pretty good if you are into that sort of thing.
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>>44998843
Lots of people use the term SJW. Mostly people who recognize SJWs are pieces of shit just like MRAs, BLMs, Safe Space faggots, and every other snowflake single issue group out there.
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>>44998843
>>44998005
Posthuman being massive SJWs is common knowledge. If you cucks don't believe me I'm not going to spoonfeed you
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>>44991971
http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=55241
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>>45000513
>It's not my job to educate you shitlord

lmao this anon
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>>44989909
Every edition of Exalted. In second edition they had an entire city-state that abided by the biorhythms of a first age tree & nano-insect combination. The nano-insects could drive people into semi-psychotic furies and they rode around on the pollen the trees exchanged with each other. If you were around the trees during a certain season you would always experience the madness, along with the natives. And the natives were the most chill, non-violent people at all other times of the year. But at the same time they were so okay with violence for any reason.

Third edition involves some shameful shit I'm not going to mention but also some interesting bits: A major, massive port for many sea-faring forces, but it's entirely created from welded wreckage and all its inhabitants are refugees from the side of the guys who lost to Solar exalts once. They've also now lost to the shogunate and the Scarlet Empire, being prisoner to each. Except now there are Solars arising from that section of human populace, and at least one of them is a Dawn with quite a bit of civic pride.
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>>44999856
Harn is a fantastic world that simulates a low magic medieval fantasy setting. Dwarves and elves are present, but they are very minor and you could adventure on the misty isle for years without ever come into contact with either.

The cultures of the island are about as diverse as those present in England: Welsh, Saxon, Norman, etc. If OP is looking for cultures that are vastly different, akin to what you find in other games, then I would agree it is not what he is looking for. However, Harn is much more personal and much more intimate than Glorantha is, and if you are looking for a world which treats people realistically, soberly, and with deep understanding, you should consider Harn as first among many.
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Kingdom and Microscope and The Quiet Year all work really well when you play with social scientists.
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>>44997269
>Fate version in kickstarter

The only Glorantha RPGs I'm aware of are 13th Age in Glorantha, Chaosium's Runequest, and Heroquest Glorantha.

Also, the Guide to Glorantha is probably the worst place to start for a beginner. Sure it has nice art and tons of detail, but it can also be incredibly overwhelming, and tends to give the impression that you have to have a degree in history or anthropology to be qualified to run a game.

Heroquest Glorantha gives a good, short, digestible introduction that'll provide you with an overview of the world and rules to start playing any character you might want in Dragon Pass or Prax. It's also a nice color hardback with plenty of great illustrations -- it would definitely be my first recommendation to start exploring Glorantha.
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>>44999651
>>>/pol/
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>>45001207
>my asshole has been torn to shreds

lmao this anon
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>>45001434
>Third edition involves some shameful shit I'm not going to mention

HEROIN-PISSING DINOSAURS
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>>45002265
Those have been in every edition, they were probably talking about the Rape Ghosts.
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>>45000513
>No I wont provide proof cis scum!
Oh the irony
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>>44997876

Who cares. The game is good and the setting is good. Devs could be child eating Hitlers for all I care.
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Numenera is walking in the detail road, but it's kinda dumb compared with Eclipse Phase or Glorantha.

Also there's a very detailed game that i've never read or played: Burning Wheel. Maybe i'm wrong but it looks deep.
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>>44993991

The problem with EP is that it tries to fit in as many different sci-fi ideas as possible into one setting (uplifts, stargates, mind uploading, singularity, psychics, cosmic horror, etc.), resulting in a clusterfuck of conflicts and contradictions.
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>>44990065

On the bright side, anyone with a socsci background and an interest in RPG design could probably find an audience for his product.
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>>45002446

>Rape Ghost Coast to Coast

As I've never played Exalted, the fucking what now?
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>>45007096
I have played and read a bit of burning wheel. From my gleanings it excels as a system if the players are want grounded multifacited characters. The chargen makes its almost impossible to make a snowflake. Memorable mechanics from my experience are that failures ride so no rerolls until you get what you want, new skills can be picked up through trial and error, and characters get experience from fulfilling beliefs or their instincts getting them in trouble. The money and influence mechanics are nice because they are stats so no tracking 1237gp. Its also notable that a social heirarchy is baked into character creation.

Longstory short this is NOT a system good at casual murderhobo adventures and IS a system good at lowish fantasy socio-political game of thrones style fuckery. Unless you play as orcs then the game is nothing but murderhobo.
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>>44989909
Most scandinavian RPGs (but that comes from their inspiration of Glorantha, RuneQuest, Basic Roleplay). Most BRP inspired games are.
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>>44989909

Planescape pretends to be D&D but is actually about clubs of philosophers arguing over shit. The factions in Sigil have everything from utterly convinced solipsists to atheists (in a fantasy setting!) and it's a blast.
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There's an upcoming RPG called Red Markets, which frames a zombie apocalypse in financial terminology. The creator describes it as economic horror.
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>>45009047
This.
http://i.somethingawful.com/u/elpintogrande/may13/exalted/offensive.gif
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>>44989909
>social science
I was under the impression that this entire field was a bit of an RPG in itself.

>create fascinating new ways to diagnose people
>conjure theories and effects out of thin air
>become so prolifically masterful at bullshit that you can get a degree in it
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>>45010803
I'm amazed that the math aspergers arrived so late to this thread
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>>44997105
>RuneQuest 6 update
Chaosium confirmed they are basically reprinting RQ 2 again, and the rules are from BRP 2.0.

RuneQuest 6 is getting a generic new name when the license ends.
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>>45002199
There is a d20 too :^)
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>>45011506
There is? Got a link?

I mean, I know you could use the setting for almost any fantasy system, and a few others besides; and I've seen GURPS adaptations, but I don't recall a d20 one.

Unless this is a sly way to refer to the HQ system since it also uses a d20 for rolling.
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>>45010184
>in b4 butthurt Exalted fanboys trot out aatrek in a desperate attempt to defend their Rape-Ghost-Demons-Raping-A-12-year-old game by way of an extremely tired Guilt-by-association/Ad Hominem fallacy.
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>>45011667
Actually a lot of the Exalted fanboys got really pissed off and bitched at the writers to try and make them remove it.
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>>45002199
There are tons of Glorantha games. But still i think that King of Dragon Pass is where everybody should start, Heroquest Glorantha is OK but still it feels empty of a lot of basic things of the Dragon Pass.

>>45011474
Runequest 6 is getting a Glorantha version, there's even a beta PDF. Adventures of Glorantha.
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>>44999856
Excuse me, but Harn isn't very Tolkienesque. It is way more mediaeval than bog standard fantasy.
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>>45012763
That to.

I love the writer's response to their kickstarter backer's very legitimate concerns. It basically boiled down to :

>*Fingers in ears*
>"La-la-la-LA-LA-la I can't hear you!"
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>>45013229
ugh, i'm not trying to be annoying but it gets boring how many games are set in a generic medieval fantasy setting.
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>>45013359
You have a point there.

Hence why I tend to avoid generic fantasy settings like the plague.

The only one that even interests me at all is the Witcher.
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>>45013505
yeah, that's because it's set in a region like Poland. which is darker and was poorer back then. You feel the eastern medieval setting different from the usual stuff influenced by France, Italy, England, Germany and Spain. I love The Witcher.
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>>45013053
Dude stop. There is no "beta pdf" of Adventures in Glorantha. Fifty preview copies were sold at Gencon last year and that is all that will ever be made -- no pdf version exists or will ever exist.

Chaosium has completely revised the direction they are taking the license and they are going to reintegrate Runequest with Glorantha as one set of rules.
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I want a generational tabletop rpg thoroughly based in Economic and Political Theory (since they go hand in hand). It would start in the bronze age and go to the space age.

>Be me
>HouseofUr.kuniform
>Good to be king
>Decide that shiny yellow stuff is awesome and call it Gold. It is worth things.
>Go and collect Gold from surrounding Villages for "protection"
>Accidently invented the City-State and Taxation
>Start to mine lots of Gold
>Gold fever
>Influx of Gold leads to inflation crisis and city-state of Ur collapses due to your inept handling of the market crisis.
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>>44989909
The first RPG I connect with social sciences is Degenesis. It's a post-apocalyptic game set 500 years after the apocalypse. While great parts of the population are stil living in tribal structures the overall state of the world can be roughly described as medieval, with industrialization going on in some places and a few pre-apocalyptic high-tech enclaves. There's also supernatural shit going down because the meteor brought some alien substance called the "primer" with it.

But what should really interest you are the Cults, which are the main factors of power. They are really well thought through and fit perfectly into the awesome gameworld. Regarding the social science thing: It should be noted that all of the Cults were either predicted or directly influenced by the memetic experiments and social engineers of the Recombination Group or the Anubis Syndicate. Discovering the thin silver threat that connects everything is reason enough for reading the books.

Check the trailer and the website if you're interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tw3KaMr8wk

www.degenesis.com

I'll see if I can dig up the books somewhere.
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>>45014027
Yeah i've heard a lot of things about that game but never got into reading more about it. Thanks for the suggestion, looks interesting.
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>>45014134
http://kickasstorrentx.info/degenesis-rebirth-2015-pdf-eng-t11707261.html

Could only find a download on kickasstorrents, the mega folder seems to have vanished. Have fun.
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>>45014027
>>45014134
>art is amazing
>lore is deep and varied
>setting is fresh
But man are the game mechanics dull. Not to mention the class system screams video game. Still worth looking at for the first book though
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>>45014883
What class mechanics?
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>>45014936
advancing in your culture you know what I mean
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>>45015024
You mean the ranks in your cult? What's vidyagemey about them?
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>>45015074
Yep them

The combination of neat uniquely named hierarchies and stat prerequisites to me was extremely reminiscent of class leveling in vidya.
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>>45015223
I dunno man, we have this rank called "IT-Guy" in our company and I'm pretty shure I'm not qualified to be one because I don't know a thing about programming. Not to mention the difference between a nurse, a gynecologist and a biochemist.
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>>45015328
Was this supposed to have any relevance to my comment?
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>>45015442
It points toward the revalation that vidya isn't the only place where people want to be specifically adressed bacause they have acquired a certain set of skills.
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>>45015639
I never denied that. However the way that the game presents the cult ranks IS nigh identical to what you would see in a video game hence my original comment.
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>>45015736
I disagree. I have yet to see a game that goes beyond 'pick a class and a skill tree', and while the rank diagrams do show similarities with said trees the cults are still organisations, not professions.
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>>45015928
Well I am sure we can both agree that the artwork is fantastic.
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>>45016252
OP here, artwork is great but i think that the game it's more like cyberpunk-esque than what i'm looking for. Eclipse Phase is like that too but it has something that makes it more real.
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>>45014027
A: it's clear the Devs know nothing, not even the basics of firearms and want to show off the couple of days they spent studying medival blackpowder warfare. This sort of thing is unforgivable in the age of google.

B: their treatment of africa is laughable, again, age of google. Their research was awful.

I'd hardly call Degenesis bland but it's not as deep and well thought out as people like to pretend. It's a vanity project with high production values.
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>>45018282
That's the problem with Degenesis. It looks nice, it has tons of publicity, the plot isn't that bad, but when you look at the details it fails.

>>45017479
Stay with glorious Eclipse Phase.
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>>45017479
EP has its flaws, but at least tries harder than most settings. I'd stick with it myself, as it does do a pretty good job.
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>>45013871

You want microscope. Actually. Check that shit out.
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>>45014883
I actually think advancing through the cult is the most interesting part of the game mechanically. Everything else is okay, not great, but not bad either. Which is what I expect from a lore and setting heavy game. I'd like to play it in a different system at some point. After I play it in the normal system of course, it's not right to ditch it before trying it.
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Any world War game out there? Or history RPG. That would be the deepest of games for sure
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>>44989909
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>>45013871
You want microscope. It's usually dumped every pdf share thread so go check it out.
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>>45022772
>>45026979
Oh shit micromind
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>>45022772
>>45026979
shit i thought you were joking. I really thought "what kind of nerdy joke is that i don't get it"

I'll check Microscope :)
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>>44997269
>village of cabins at riverbank on a plain

it's like they want to get flooded
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>>45028431
Unless you're an amphibious humanoid
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>>45029950
They'd still get flooded and it would cause structural damage to the cabins. Wood structures already need a lot of maintenance and upkeep, and that's without any flooding.

Just sayin'.
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>>44993991
Fuck. I miss when we could keep /epg/ running for more than a few hours.
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>>45033328
I've been checking /tg/ regularly these last few days for an Eclipse Phase general thread. Was really disappointed to see it was no longer a thing.
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>>45033396
Start one up on a Friday afternoon. Maybe it will last long enough to attract some new people and bring in the old ones.
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>>45033396
>>45033429
maybe i'll participate, i'm getting way into EP.
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>>45010184
That's it?
>>
>>45025083
>world War game
GURPS WWII.
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