Pathfinder General /pfg/

What is the best way to optimize a Paladin? I want it to be as broken as possible.

Tier 1 has been banned so no Cleric

>>44844486
please help with this

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>>44844852
Probably an archer, for massive DPR.

>>44844843
The competition is on, apparently.

ITT: awesome armor pics?

>>44844907
Abandon ship.
Alternatively, tell them that the devs themselves can explain to them exactly why that is foolish if they ask about it on here.

What do you do when a person doesn't even make their character sheet for the session they had a whole week to make?

>>44844907
Tell them to contact me if they want to hear from a developer directly.

>>44844989
Where can you be messaged outside of here?

>>44844852
Sacred Servant archer paladin.
Janitors are salty today.

This thread has more people but>>44844706 came first wat do?

>>44845032
GitP or Paizo are probably the best places.

>>44845041

I will give that a try then I assume when I'm going to be doing is a lot of summoning and shooting.

What's a good way to play a cleric of Asmodeus?

How do you pull off the whole 'I'm gonna do you this favour, but at some point in the future you're gonna do something for me' thing properly?

>>44845100
Make people sign contracts.

>>44845078
You get better casting, more smites, and more dudes to back you up.
You lose literally nothing of note.
Throw a decent Oath on top to flavor it, go to town.
If you can get 3pp, drop a feat for a Solar Wind stance or maneuver to really bring home the bacon. By bacon I mean the heads of your slain foes.

>>44845192
Drop on Oath of Vengeance as well, and laugh.

>people pick reactionary
>people don't act in accordance with the trait

>>44845251
Reactionary allows you to react faster in a fight. People tend to do exactly that.

>>44845251
Hmm?

>>44844778
> 2016
> still playing as knight instead of wizard

>>44845251
>Reactionary
>Combat trait
>Not picking Paragon of Speed (Regional Trait)
I feel like I'm the only person who knows how trait rules work.

>>44844852
Unsactioned Knowledge + Smite Sonic Thrust

>>44844907

Just play a summoner, inquisitor, paladin or magus if you want to be martial with flexibility instead (or psionics if allowed, but they don't strike me as the type to allow that either).

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>>44845273
Nothing wrong with playing a knight.

Although personally I don't enjoy characters without some sort of subsystem, be it maneuvers or spells or just a complex set of class features.

>>44845192
> more smites
how? I thought sacred servant has less smite not more.

How does one make a Senran in Pathfinder?

>>44845192
Don't you get less Smites? Also is that the one that gives you a domain? It's one of the only ways to get Rage and rage powers on a paladin.

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>>44845333
>Senran
A what?

>>44845348

Titty ninja.

what are the most effective blast spells for sorcs per level. im assuming
1. magic missile
2. scorching ray
3. fireball
then?

>>44845287
That's even worst.

> You are a product of Hermea’s breeding programs—either your parents were chosen to be citizens, or you were, but later failed to live up to the island’s high standards.

>>44845264
>>44845272
>>44845287
>You were bullied often as a child, but never quite developed an offensive response.
>they don't act bullied whatsoever
Due to the fact that EVERYONE in my party always gets that and doesn't even roleplay it, I'm pretty much giving every enemy Reactionary too. It's becoming apart of my custom setting that it's customary to bully their kids to explain everyone ALWAYS taking Reactionary.

>>44845322
>>44845335
Oops, yeah, my fault.
Regardless, the benefits far outweigh the losses.
>>44845333
>a Senran
Warlords and Stalkers. Dump int, give them Called/Glamoured armor, go nuts.

>>44845368
>Titty Ninja
Cha-harbinger.

Unfortunately, we don't have one. Blame Gareth.
Steel serpent buffs when?

>>44845384
1: Snowball
2: Burning Arc

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>>44845387
What?

>>44845391
>Trait fluff mattering

As a counterpoint, I was bullied a lot as a child and it gave me a couple flinching reflexes when someone raises a fist. I'm not very reactionary unless someone seems like they're going to hit me. When they do, I am.

>>44845322
>>44845335

This functions as the paladin ability, but the sacred servant cansmite evilone additional time per day at 7th level, and every six levels thereafter (instead of 4th level and every three levels thereafter).


Is Extra Smite still a fear in PF??

>>44845294

What are those two from?

>>44845192

I will do that or take a level from an initiator class, probably Warlord, if allowed. Right now I'm building on the notion that only 1pp material is allowed.

>>44845241

Is it that good? I have not played a paladin since 3.5e, and all I did then was charging smite builds.

>>44845455
>fluff
>not mattering
Not in my campaign, munchkin.

>>44845467
Both are from Ultimate Magic.

>>44845478
No, the fluff of the TRAIT mattering, you retard.

A character's fluff is everything. The fluff on the page is irrelevant to it unless the writer of the character wants it to be. Printed fluff is and should be considered to be entirely mutable.

Reactionary is a combat trait that gives +2 to Init. That's. All. It. Does. It doesn't give you penalties against Intimidate, or Diplomacy when trying to talk down bullies. It doesn't give you Willpower after having overcome bullying. It is "you react slightly faster in a fight."

That mechanic can be fluffed as a number of things.

>>44845467
>Is Extra Smite still a fear in PF??

Extra Lay on Hands is, and you can trade those for smites with the vengeace paladin archetype.

>>44845467
Sacred Servant has 3 Smite at level 13 (1,7,13)
Normal Paladin has 5 Smite at level 13 (1,4,7,10,13)

>>44845467
>Is Extra Smite still a fear in PF??
It expressly is not.
>I will do that or take a level from an initiator class, probably Warlord, if allowed. Right now I'm building on the notion that only 1pp material is allowed.
It is smart, but I'd be wary of dipping in PF, as it isn't nearly as rewarding in PF as it was in 3.5.
>all I did then was charging smite builds
That's all paladins were good for. My most successful 3.5 pallie was a MFK/Charging Smite/Fist of Raziel with a dip in Crusader.
>>44845478
I don't think it is so great a thing that it must be shown at all times, anon.

>>44845526
> I wants all the benefit without any downside
power gamer at its finest.

>>44845485

Gotcha.

Oh and which God should I worship? The Good outsider selection is pretty small, but I was thinking a hound archon to start and eventually a leonal for all the nice healing and infinite fire balls and utility, but the avoral might be better at supporting.

Leonal has a surprisingly decent Stealth rank, too, huh.

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>>44845576

>>44845576
Wait so do you make up random penalties for all traits?

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>>44845576
I don't even know how to respond to this, honestly.

The idea that there are still people who don't understand that building your character concept to function as it should is more important than shitty fluff that someone happened to print is just... Alien to me.

I bet you rule that aasimars die of old age when created, too.

>>44845588
Erastil.
Good values, a defender of all people who want to be good folk and have a peaceful life.

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>>44845600
Ah shit, I walked into this, didn't I.


Fuck it. More armor pictures.

>>44845427
The actual trait is call Hermean Paragon. D20pfsrd took out every text related to Golarion (even the Prerequisite). Check Archive of Nethys.

You are not one of the retard who thinks they can take regional trait without actually coming from that region are you?

>>44845526
The point of the trait is to give your fluff mechanical benefit.

Hi, Our party's mission is to get rid of a white dragon (age unknown) living somewhere in a mountain range.

We arrived in a small village nearby the mountain at the end of last session, and DM told us to think about what we are suppose to do before actually start dragon hunting... with our skills and resources.

He hinted us that the dragon will use its wings for sure, and it won't hesitate to fly away if things go wrong. With our limited fly option (couple of scrolls of fly at best) I guess it will be the most troubling part.

So, what kind of questions should we ask the villagers with Gather Info? Any Knowledge roll that can be useful? What should we look out for when we are out for scouting? Any item of note for dragon hunting?

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>>44845333

Miyabi is best Senran!

And easily most Harbinger.

>>44845622

It's a troll, calm down.

>>44845659
And how often should that fluff be expressed?

>>44845629

Going to protect that smile.

... and if they can't they will damn well of avenge it.

>>44845667

Is this Jade Regent? Because it sounds like Jade Regent.

>>44845622
> Traits: This system gives players a way to draw benefits from their characters' histories and backgrounds

> et a character trait isn't just another kind of power you can add on to your character—it's a way to quantify (and encourage) building a character background that fits into your campaign world. Think of character traits as "story seeds" for your background; after you pick your two traits, you'll have a point of inspiration from which to build your character's personality and history. Alternatively, if you've already got a background in your head or written down for your character, you can view picking his traits as a way to quantify that background, just as picking race and class and ability scores quantifies his other strengths and weaknesses.

If you view traits as a Stats block then you are already contradicting both RAW and RAI.

Also they fixed Aasimar starting age a long time ago. They starts at 20 years old now.

>>44845709
Nah, DM's homebrew setting.

>>44845667
You are dealing with a creature at least as smart as the average person with superhuman strength.
Standard anti-dragon tactics?
Anything that will deny it it's mobility, such as nets, tanglefoot bags are fucking great.
Ask the townsfolk if they are being held to ransom, or livestock/caravans have gone missing. See if local trappers/hunters know anything about something bigger and meaner in the surrounding area, maybe hire one to lead you to a haunt.
As for knowledges, nature is the big one, as well as local, history, perhaps arcane, and survival will suit you well.

>>44845622
>The idea that there are still people who don't understand that building your character concept to function as it should is more important than shitty fluff that someone happened to print is just... Alien to me.

This is how you get Zweihander Sentinel classes on a character that spent their life as a woodcutter, though.

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>>44845675
Yeah, I realized after I posted.

Today has been long and I'm a moron who can't give it up, it seems.

>>44845725
>Alternatively, if you've already got a background in your head or written down for your character, you can view picking his traits as a way to quantify that background, just as picking race and class and ability scores quantifies his other strengths and weaknesses.

Quite literally says it in what you quoted that if you have fluff, you should pick traits that quantify (that is, put it into mechanics).

>>44845478

There's an infinite number of ways to interpret fluff, with sufficient bullshitting skill you can make anything sound plausible. That's part of why we play a rule heavy game, to get away from the arbitrariness and DM fiat fuckery ...

>>44845667
>Hi, Our party's mission is to get rid of a white dragon (age unknown) living somewhere in a mountain range.
>(age unknown)
Find out the fucking age. A dragon who doesn't fight like a retard is one of the most terrifying threats out there. Especially of they have 6th level casting. I've never had a party survive an encounter with a dragon of reasonable age before.

>>44845755
What are the standard tactics? We're quite noobs

>>44845770
So you can't learn how to cut down people by cutting down trees? There's nothing stopping a ZS Warder from using a greataxe instead of a greatsword.

>>44845774
>>44845770
>>44845622
>>44845526
>>44845651
>>44845612
>>44845576
>>44845478
>>44845455
>>44845391
>>44845287
>>44845251

Calm the fuck down, anons. It's literally RAI to refluff traits:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n8yh?Trait-questions#2

>>44845913

Not to mention most of the initial Primal Fury and Scarlet Throne maneuvers can be construed as chopping motions, such as Primal Fury or Scything Strike.

>>44845834
>>44845667
Knowledge Arcana to knows about White Dragon.
Knowledge Geography to knows where its Lair might locate in the area.

Balloon Trap (150gp, DC15 Fly or grounded), Wing Hobble (75gp). A sexy princess mannequin to attract dragon?

>>44845808
If you can't trust your GM to make sound, fair judgments on the rules, something is wrong with the GM.
And if you don't trust your GM to do so with no reason, something is wrong with you.
>>44845834
Depends on the dragon. Generally, I've gotten by with learning as much about the dragon itself as possible, and exploiting it's personality to draw it into a disadvantageous situation. I once got a gold dragon drunk to convince it to tell me information about a clutchmate it had particular grievance with.
>>44845871
Never ever EVER fight a dragon on it's terms.
Always find out as much as possible about the dragon. I once figured out it's size by the size of it's spoor. Yes, we found and examined dragon shit to determine it's relative size by how much it shat out, what it shat out, and the area it fed. If you don't know what manner of dragon you are dealing with in detail, do NOT go after it.
If you can surprise it, do so.
If you can poison it, do so.
If you can deny any of it's strengths, do it, do it fast, and don't let up. If you can't deny any of it's advantages, you should not be facing it.
You are dealing with a creature that while intelligent and powerful, is NOT swift or agile. That is a built in advantage you have over it, and you MUST use it. That is why I recommend nets and tanglefoot bags, both will slow it down and keep it from flying off.
If you are industrious, bring cover, or lure it to a ambush from cover. In a particularly ballsy move, my group set up a kill zone of 15 hired crossbowmen behind considerable barricades, and the monk, bless her heart, lured it to us.
Then came bolts, nets, lassos, acid, everything we could toss at the fucker.

>>44845667
What's your level? What is the party composition?

>>44846034
>If you can't trust your GM to make sound, fair judgments on the rules, something is wrong with the GM.
>And if you don't trust your GM to do so with no reason, something is wrong with you.

Same goes for the GM not being able to trust the players, imo.

I've read way too many horror stories that just make me a bit disappointed in the gaming community.

>>44846034
>Depends on the dragon. Generally, I've gotten by with learning as much about the dragon itself as possible, and exploiting it's personality to draw it into a disadvantageous situation. I once got a gold dragon drunk to convince it to tell me information about a clutchmate it had particular grievance with.

Yes, it is possible, but I've always run dragons how I see them. Highly powerful sociopaths that don't live past being a juvenile without carving out territory for themselves. Dragons are forced to get good at killing because if they don't another dragon will come and take their wealth (chromatic dragons more than metallic).

>>44846019
>Knowledge Arcana to knows about White Dragon.
Lets you know about white dragons, not this particular white dragon. If it's been around for long enough that would be Knowledge (History).

So you'd know white dragons stats, not the power of this particular one.

>>44846034
This. Poison is good. Ingested Poison can stack so put 10x dose into its food.

>>44846144
I just assume that his party doesn't know anything about Dragon other than its being a big flying lizard.

>>44846071
>I've read way too many horror stories
I consider this part of the problem.
People read stories online, then treat people irl as tho they are what they read on the internet.
That's why I said "with no reason". What you read on the net does not count as a reason.
>>44846119
And dragons how they are written are also generally greedy egomaniacs, with some more egomaniacal and greedy than others.
This opens a lot of avenues, and even then, most stories you will see in books about dragons being triumphed over are just as much about wit, and the dragon itself overestimating itself/underestimating it's clearly inferior foes, as brute force.
>>44846144
What is more important is knowing white dragon habits, food sources, lair types. It opens the door to getting closer, not solves all problems.

>>44846064
lv 10 fighter, lv 7 ranger, lv 5 sorcerer, cleric and alchemist. Yes it's weird. deaths, couple of guys joining late into campaign, and guys missing sessions made this happen.

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So, I brought it up earlier, but I didn't get any super interesting suggestions.

My DM foolishly greenlit my playing a Centaur while everyone else sticks with core/featured/uncommon races. Foolish not because I'm an evil fucker, but because he didn't realize centaurs were particularly strong until it was brought up later. At that point, the party had already discussed it and decided everyone was cool with having a centaur in the party. We're all pretty used to this, as the last game I played, the DM as a player was playing a 25RP Angel race.

So, what fun things can I do with a centaur without making the game un-fun for everyone else? My current build is a Wood Spirit Summoner who summons a rider.

TL;DR:
>DM's letting me play a centaur, want some cool ideas
>Nobody wants to build around riding me
>Straight martials are boring unless they're preposterously good at skill checks

>>44845384
Just put metamagic on fireball.

>>44846255
I've never actually played a game with different-leveled party members. Hell, most of my DMs have eschewed experience points for story milestone level-ups. How's that working out?

>>44846245
Indeed. I would say that I've got complete and utter trust in my DM. I can't really think of a normal "horrible DM" move or style he could do that'd make me lose that trust, because over time he's proven that when he does something like that, even if there's no visible reason, there'll be a payoff.

I'd like to think that trust goes both ways about the rest of us players not ruining the game.

I wish that more groups had that (maybe it's the reading online and getting a bad sampling that's coloring my perception?)

>>44846197

They are more like cats than lizards.

>>44845667

For instance :

Do some investigation to find out age and where it has attacked in the past, try to predict where it will be in the near future (with some added divination if possible).

Set up a trap with wizard putting a major illusion image of a merchant near a large fire with a horse and some mules. Then everyone hiding in an (extended) ropetrick. Dragon will probably strafe to kill everything with breath. When he comes for spoils drop out of ropetrick, bombard him with tanglefoot bags and murder him.

>>44846255
> 5 level difference
...you should quit anon.

>>44846255
Been there.
>>44846308
Honestly, it isn't as bad as >>44846349 is trying to imply, so long as the game isn't a combat slog decided by the highest level character.

>>44846280
You knows Centaur hate being ride right? It's an act of humiliation for them. So you character is pretty much a pervert who enjoy being humiliate in public.

>>44846280

Druid centaur with a drinking problem and a monkey on his back.

>>44846401

You're implying that making a proud centaur knight that gets "broken in" and learns to love the saddle isn't the hottest shit out there.

>>44846308
Well, DM's kind of LN by-the-book type. Fair ruling (no mary sue npc or uber enemy, but penalties party if shit happens). So these kind of difference happens and we agree on that.

Fighter, being CMB disarm/trip type specialist, helps as well since he's not using high level to go hurr durr I'm DPS machine route.

>GM introduces a hydra
>Son of Ghidora
>Prince Fedora
>He infects you with maladies(disease)


God damn puns

>>44846452
Only if it's a qt Centaur girl.

>>44846452

Only if you get to polish his Lance, if you know what I mean

>>44846499

Fuck off with your waifu shit, it's horse dick time faggot

>>44846401
To be fair, the reason nobody will ride me is that my one stipulation is that they refer to me as 'daddy'. They have to make sure it makes it into all interactions during or related to riding.

>May I climb onto your back, daddy?
>Bring me closer to them, daddy! I want to hit them with my sword, daddy!
>Be more careful, we almost got caught in that volley of arrows, daddy!

As for my summoned rider, my spirit domain is Wood, so it's a revered nature spirit. Since my character follows the Green Faith, I think this kind of deference isn't out of the question.

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>>44846523

>>44846535
>>44846523

I think I like PFG better when it is talking about studs.

>>44846506

Service has perks.

>>44846535
LEWD

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>>44846566

>tfw no Satyr husbando

>>44846599

I'm playing a minotaur husband for someone else, it's been fun.

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>>44846615

>Minotaur husband

Potential cool ideas that I've heard or thought of with centaur that I'm not going to do:

>Centaur's racial cavalier archetype (Pure martial is boring)
>Titan Fighter archetype for huge weapons (Maybe a dip. Turns a huge shillelagh club into a double-gargantuan club)
>Skald for drunken fun (Fun, but not better than the summoner idea for me)
>Zealous centaur cleric (We already have a cleric, and he won't ride me for double cleric power, so fuck him, he can be alone)

>>44846647

To a drow no less.

BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT SARENRAE!!!

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>>44846679
Do you scream much better than the broken drow men?

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>>44846684
Yeah, well, I heard Sarenrae's a real bitch.

>>44846705

Normally she's the one doing the screaming but yes

>>44846725
I don't understand. She screams while she whips you?

She must get really into it.

>>44846717
I choked, not gonna lie. What is that?

>>44846754
That's a Lumi, a native of the positive energy plane in 3.5.

Question. Net is a weapon that can entangle a foe that is within one size category than you. Since it is a weapon, can i cast enlarge person on me (thus enlarge a net as well) and use a net to entangle Huge foe, by RAW?

>>44846679

I knew Drow were into some kinky shit but size queen wasn't one of them.

>>44846725

The question here is was the Drow a PC or NPC.

>>44846831
Yep. That's rules as written and intended.

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DrowAnon here. Working on the LotLK ap, thought I'd share my plans. This is my quick rundown; spoilers below. I'm looking for input, so feel free to comment. To note, the AP won't be using an XP system; rather leveling up when it's appropriate:

Book 1
Levels 1-4
>White Estrid hires out (pcs) adventurers to track a Norn headed to Cavern of Sacred Shapes
>Deal with Adlet's, learn the prophecy that the Norn left on the walls -- That the LotLK will be unified under one ruler, and soon. The prophecy doesn't specify who or what.
>White Estrid, looking to get in good with the new ruler, calls together a tournament that'll end in a hunt for a Linnorm
>Players raise reputation by any means -- Raiding, Trading, adventures.
>During this time, they'll be assailed by another party looking to take others out before the tournament.

Book 2
Levels 4-7
>Tournament happens. Festivities inbound, Ulfen men and women in many contests of strength, stamina, and wits while waiting for the main attraction.
>More chances to build reputation here; but at the grand finale of the Tournament, it's besieged by a Linnorm.
>Players help fend it off and protect allies
>PCs recognized for their efforts, and are called to Hunt the Linnorm.
>Track, hunt, kill the Linnorm.
>With proof of the Linnorm slain, the PCs are granted their own land and title to start a Kingdom. Book ends out as the PCs build up their Kingdom. High reputation will help call in favors to help the Kingdom.

More in a second

>>44846931

There's a problem here, friend.

While you're able to hunt a Linnorm in a group, you have to solo the Linnorm to gain a kingship.

Yes yes, laws can be changed, but White Estrid got into a ton of shit for merely letting her Linnorm live as a pet, and another Linnorm King nearly lost his crown simply because no one followed him when he came back with a Linnorm head.

Also, have you figured out what lands and territories the party will take? The Thanelands need a replacement but Sveinn will probably hold out for a private audience before handing it over.

>>44846931
>>44847010

Expanding on this criticism, Icemark makes for a poor territory since, historically, it's *never* been under direct control of a Linnorm King, the region is almost entirely Erutaki and semi-autonomous.

The only lands that are actively in need of a Linnorm King are Trollheim and the Thanelands, and as the anon said Sveinn is not giving up the Thanelands unless he sees you carry Fafnheir's head through the gates of Kalsgard.

That said, the lands are carved up all the time when a King is declared, there are no "predetermined" regions for them to control. The party could gain ownership of a chunk of Thanelands, or maybe White Estrid gives them some of her islands on top of some of Broken Bay. Up to you, since it really depends on which King they impress enough so they'd be willing to give up land.

>>44846931

Book 3
Levels 7-11
>Events of the Kingdom, building it up, expanding, dealing with Thanes, Fae, Winters, and other problems.
>Trollheim sends word to the Kings that something's fucky on the border; Sveinn requests that the PCs show their personally
>The Norn's prophecy has gotten the witches of Irrisen up in a huff -- Some are looking to snip this problem while they can, other's believe that Irrisen will conquer the Lands and rule both nations.
>The Prophecy has another figure interested -- Fafnheir. While the players are away, the Linnorms will play, and in an attack against Kalsgard, Sveinn is killed. Fafnheir is wounded in this exchange, and is forced to retreat and lick his wounds.
>Sveinn, with his dying words, leaves the Thanelands to the one who can slay Fafnheir.

Book4
Levels 11-14
>The Kings, with the death of Sveinn, turn amongst one another; politics, bickering, and general infighting, while they try to raise armies to slay the Linnorm.
>During this time, Irrisen pushes further in, taking Trollheim and forcing Freyer from the frontlines. Seeking vengeance, he comes to the PCs with an insane idea -- Bring the 99 Kings and the other undead from the Moundlands into the fight
>The King's are 'welcoming' of the PCs as fellow nobility, but they're not going to budge unless the lands have been united. Here they'll get word of Rixbrand, a sword to slay Fafnheir, and where it last lays
>For all the effort that goes into finding it, however, it's found useless.
>Book 4 ends here.

Fucking word limit.
>>44847010
>>44847085
I'll get to this in a second.

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So I'm in a campaign in which the DM plans to introduce kingdom building down the road.

My character is a Siege Gunner Gunslinger who is going to likely focus on technological advancement in war technologies (mostly in gargantuan siege weapons/guns for his soldiers/bombers).

The thing is, I was thinking of having gargantuan siege towers in a line formation rolling down the battlefield with units inside (some of them shooting their guns out of the windows in the front). I am sure that the siege towers (likely made of steel or adamantine) will meet up with enemy soldiers, but such massive walls of death shouldn't stop at the enemies so simply. The question I have, if I were sieging a castle, is if it would be possible to run over the troops in the way and continue on (crushing them beneath my absolutely massive moving walls of steel) with no hindrance? It only makes sense for my walls of death to run over units and crush them to death, as they are practically getting run over by a GIGA-tank (filled with units + outfitted with some siege weapons).

Is there anything in the rules that allow this sort of thing? Have any suggestions? Right now I am planning war strategies (with the one I am working on right now including paying Barbarians to raid outlying villages, waiting for the enemy to dispatch units to deal with the barbarians, then rolling out my army inside + behind these massive GIGA-tank siege towers while using fast moving airships to bomb the casters and archers positioned atop the castle/in the enemy's backlines; likely also paying mercenaries to flank the castle and force them to divide their units throughout the castle). As for the design of the siege towers being used, imagine image included, but longer in width +height, rather than length backwards.

How do I play an extremely defensively oriented character in pathfinder? I wanna be a big dude in big armour with a big shield

>>44847183
What materials do you have available to use? Is 3rd party allowed? What level?

>>44846931
>really want to fucking play in a campaign like this
>my current group has games going on friday, saturday, and sunday
FUCK

>>44847222

When does DrowAnon plan on running this campaign, anywho?

>>44847204
Level 15, third party allowed as long as its within reason

>>44846831

Yes, but if you let go of the trailing rope it resets to its original size.

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>>44847111
Book5
Levels 14-17
>Irrisen Invasion ramps up, pushing further into the lands each day. Grungir Forest is a casualty of this, the witches using their powers to against the Fey here.
>Despite the Fey's power, they're outnumbered, and call for the PCs to help -- If they can assist, they'll help reforge Rixbrand.
>The Fey uphold their end of the bargain, reforging the sword (Or whatever the PCs prefer), and throw in a bonus -- The location of Fafnheir's Lair.
>By this time, the dragon has fully recovered, and the party is expected to defeat them here.
>With proof of the Fafnheir dead, the Kings recognize the PCs as the the true King of the lands, as do the 99 Kings. Those who call themselves Kings unify under the PCs command, and with a unified front, take the fight back to reclaiming Trollheim.

Book 6
Levels 17-20
Short and sweet
>Takeback Trollheim
>Takeback Irrisen
>Unify the lands
>Rest of the book is filled with what the players can do from here

>>44847010
As you said, Sveinn probably won't be impressed, and none of the other kingdoms will want to give up land, with the exception of maybe Hagreach far north or south. I could claim that the Linnorm was wounded during it's attack, lowering the encounter's CR, but I feel that's taking away from the player's sense of accomplishment

As for the hunt, I can't actually find where it says it has to be Solo. pg35-36 doesn't mention it at all; so I must be missing something. Help me out!

>>44847183
That's exactly what PoW Warder is for
In Paizo classes the best option is probably one of those paladin archetypes with defensive auras or whatever

>sigh
when is paizo gonna come out with APS where the encounters are actually challenging for experienced good teams.

>>44847317
What would happen if you made a tiny indestructible (through enchantments) net medium size, then got an enemy in it and let go of it? Would they get crushed to death by the net?

>>44847183

Your own survivability is good and all, but you need to contribute meaningfully to a group beyond doing basic attacks. I would try what >>44847335 said, the Warder has great defenses but its also great at protecting its allies from harm as well.

In my experience, building a big meat wall of HP , saves and AC who can't do anything else useful offensively speaking, results in the DM just ignoring you if they're savvy at all.

>>44847368
Like.. a small net being enlarged by your own increased size, then let go to become small again, then made smaller with a shrinking spell?

>>44847351

Never. Git gud at DMing and redesign them/play them smarter like i'm doing.

I've been giving all of the non-caster enemies maneuvers from PoW to spice things up.

>>44847351
Remember, all of them start at level 1, for starters. Also, remember they have to sell these things to as wide a audience as possible, and not everybody has, say, high system mastery or PoW.

>>44847295
"Within reason" doesn't mean anything. Is Path of War or Path of War: Expanded on the table? What about Akashic Mysteries? The more details you can give the better an answer I can provide.

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>>44847085
As far as where in Icemark, I was thinking somewhere in this area. South of the Moundlands, which play an important part later on, and on the water and close enough to the Thaneland borders that they're not completely in the fuck all of nowhere.

I'm still open on changing up how this works, so if you have ideas, let me know. Otherwise I'll start getting to the meat of the project.

>>44847368
Whatever you're using to keep the net closed over them would probably break.

>>44846904

>I knew Drow were into some kinky shit but size queen wasn't one of them.

She worships Sharess and is a Bard rather than another sadomaso priestess. She's actually pretty negative about clerics, what on account of them helping (against the RURUs!) to purge her House.

>The question here is was the Drow a PC or NPC.


PC. She's my actual wife.

>>44847183
Get an invulnerable rager Barbarian who focuses on combat expertise, "Come Get Me" rage power, Fiend Totem rage power, and focus on tanking hits for allies while using combat maneuvers to CC enemies/just do damage through normal "BARBARIAN RAGE" ways.

>>44847425
What if that was also enchanted like the net?

Is it possible to crush an enemy to death with your enchanted net shenanigans?

>>44847368
Based on the caveat in Enlarge Person about not being crushed by growing in a small room, I assume it would just constrict up to the point where it can't constrict anymore, without harming the target. There's no specific rules about that though.

>>44847412
not that anon but: Maybe they COULD have that high system mastery if the adventure paths encouraged them to kick it up a notch.

>>44847328
>so I must be missing something. Help me out!

The wording of the quest implies a Linnorm Hunt for kingship must end with a 1v1 between the Linnorm and would-be King, such as "in either case, whether a lone hero or band of them on the hunt, the perils remain the same." The quest is also given a single PC or NPC master, rather than a band of heroes.

More importantly, all of the information on current Linnorm Kings suggest they slew their Linnorm in 1v1 combat; White Estrid claimed to have used a weapon granted to her by the earth spirits, the current ruler of Broken Bay arrived to Jol alone with his head, and Sveinn was notably young when he slew his Linnorm. None of them are mentioned as having another aid them in the duel.

>>44847415
Other ideas
>Southmoor, due to Opir's dubious claim
>Sunstone Cliffs, with the Thanelands and Hagreach donating some land (Could also tie in with Tian Xia trading)

>>44847462
It would take a lot more work than just making a combat maneuver. You'd still have to deal with the net potentially stretching and coming undone.

Really, it might be better to use something else.

>>44847511

Southmoor would be a good one, it's the weakest of the Linnorm Kingdoms and, as you said, Opir's claim to Kingship has always been in question.

Not to mention he's a weak ruler; Sveinn currently holds claim to Kopparberget even though it's square in Southmoor territory.

>>44847154
To add in, has anyone ever been in a campaign like this before? If so, have any advice to help a rookie in this sort of campaign.

>>44847475
The implication is vague there, but I do see where you're coming from.

The two issues at hand is the pacing of the module and PC infighting over the Linnorm King. I was thinking White Estrid (Who's already bending the rules) is the one who pushes for the 'You slew the Linnorm as a group, you rule the kingdom as a group'.

>>44847546
Do you think Sveinn would be willing to give up the mine?

Hey PFG, I'm multiclassing a Gunslinger. Anyone have any good ideas?

I was thinking either Magus or Fighter, but I was worried that, as a Magus, I would be underwhelming due to only having 16 Intelligence and being 5 levels behind a normal Magus (as a Gunslinger).

>>44847572

PC infighting will hardly be worse than it is in Kingmaker for the Ruler position, I think a central ruler is critical for the Linnorm Kingdoms... However, as you mentioned the pacing will demand the Linnorm be slain in group combat, which means the party will have to all be elevated.

Such an event would surely arouse anger and suspicion in the Ulfen, even among White Estrid's folk. I'd *try* to make it a 1v1 with one ruler (and the rest of the party becoming mighty Thanes, literally nothing wrong with being a Thane) but if you must make it a group, go for it.

>>44847591

I recall the mine is having trouble with Duerger in the lower tunnels, if you help out the Dwarves they'll probably request a transfer of ownership from Sveinn to the party, something Sveinn by this point might be willing to do.

So I was writing a LotLK AP until I realised drowanon was doing one and much farther along then me.

Anyone have any other suggestions for APs they'd like to see made?

>>44847598
Consider going Spellslinger Wizard 1/Eldritch Archer X

>>44847598
Doesn't Magus have a gunslinging archetype? Hell, I know the wizard has one that lets it use guns to deliver spells, making Magus kind of redundant. Perhaps you could use that for its faster progression.

>>44847762
>Anyone have any other suggestions for APs they'd like to see made?

Glory to Taldor!

Become Imperial agents answering only to the Emperor, set out to eliminate his opponents and consolidate power into the hands of those who would better use it.

>>44847762
>Augustana, We Have A Problem

>The party's been commissioned to fly Andoran's first spaceship! Sent into the unknown, these bold adventurers have an... unfortunate encounter out in the void of space. Can our heroes find their way home to deliver their report on the distant planet Earth?

>The first encounter is the party's ship crashing in the middle of Kansas, just as Apollo 11 is launching

>>44847598
Having a low intelligence as a magus isn't that big a problem since you shouldn't be using many spells with DCs anyway.

>>44847762

One where you are forcibly inducted into an Order of Hell Knights to root out a conspiracy within Cheliax.

>>44845667
Worth noting, dragons are fast as fuck in the air. A Fly spell ain't gonna cut it if it wants to get away.

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>>44847658
Actually, having the players ascend to being kings under dubious terms could actually be the way to go.

> White Estrus tries to play favorites to extend her rule, but the players beat him to the punch.
> She's obliged by her word to help them out, or lose some serious reputation.
> Infighting from other Kingdoms could ensue from there.
> Players arent recognized as a true heroes till they slay Fafnheir, in which they unify and kick everyone's ass like the front of a metal album.

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>>44848028

>White Estrus

She's an albino, not your waifu.

>>44846349
To be fair, the guy is a level 10 FIGHTER.

Is the Inner Sea World Guide not in the Mega link? I can't find it anywhere.

>>44847792
Hmmm... I think I may just end up going fighter if my version of a spellcasting Gunslinger is overshadowed by a Spellslinger Wizard.

I'm already 5 levels deep into Gunslinger, so there's no turning back now.

>>44848051
A lvl 1 witch could kill the lvl 10 fighter if she got a lucky slumber hex success + someone with decent dmg coup de graced him.

I'm playing a magus from level one. What are good first level spells outside of Shocking Grasp and Snowball?

>>44848105
Isn't that pretty pointless as a Gunslinger? You're getting more relevant features by staying. How are you even planning to get to use your second attack from BAB 6?

>>44848196
Dominate Person. :^)

>>44848158
thats a big if.

>>44848219
Not on the Magus Spell list.

>>44848244
Then don't play a Magus, ya cuck.

>>44848196
Grease, Enlarge Person.
Magus has a great battlefield control spell list that I recommend going for when you have damage already covered. If you don't use it you're playing a worse Duskblade.

>>44848158
>It's possible to fail a Save or Die and die

STOP
THE
FUCKING
PRESSES

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>>44847328
>>44847111

Why do they HAVE to be Linnorm Kings by Book 3? Why can't their success at slaying the Linnorm as a group catch the attention of Sveinn Blood-Eagle, who sends for them to discusses matters of fate and prophecy? Hell, you could get a cute back-and-forth between White Estrid and Sveinn as the two of them try to claim the party as their personal Champions, with White Estrid and Sveinn each promising things to the party, which would most likely involve gaining the titles of Thane.

Becoming a Thane should be a huge fucking deal, and it will let the party actually use downtime to build their holdings, seek out sharecroppers for their new lands, find a wife or husband to fill that holding with strong sons and daughters, etc, and involve yourself in the endless political intrigue of petty nobility.

It keeps the canon consistent, gives the players some titles and glory for their accomplishments, and gives each of them the ability to play the Downtime game their own way.

Is there any way to enlarge a mount for a mounted combat character? Either along with or even separately to the character enchanted by enlarge person.

Trying to make a character that can use this as their theme.

https://youtu.be/Jz8c17upEwM

Got into a game where everyone has to have a character theme and a battle theme. I am thinking of making a character like the kid in Bastion, determined to make the world a better place, not talkative, and a normal person with a melancholy/somewhat sad backstory slowly becoming a hero/anti-hero (more preferred hero, but depends on the plot).

The only problem is I have no idea what class could properly convey those the best. Anyone have any ideas of a build that would fit the song well (I like to think the character and his build/what he specializes are the most important storytelling elements of an individual).

>>44848379
>The only problem is I have no idea what class could properly convey those the best. Anyone have any ideas of a build that would fit the song well (I like to think the character and his build/what he specializes are the most important storytelling elements of an individual).

The Kid is quite clearly a Chosen One Paladin with points in Profession (Masonry.)

>>44848336
Mounted Summoner.

You can even get that fucker flying soon enough.

You'll need to enlarge the Eidolon before encounters at first, but you'll be able to get that fucker to huge size over its progression. With a quadraped base form you can even get that bastard to pounce with you while charging.

>>44848336
Dip Mammoth Rider PrC

>>44848050
Shitty auto-correct.

But the idea still stands
>White Estrid, Sveinn Blood-Eagle, Opir Eightfingers, Ingimunder, and all the PCs sit around a table.
>Freyr lurks off in a corner
>Opir challenges the right for the PCs to rule, claiming that they're ignoring the ancient traditions
>White Estrid shoots back a remark against Opir and his dubious claims, and that it doesn't 'technically say it needs to be done one-on-one'
>Ingimunder joins the fight, being one of the few
>Tensions start to rise before Sveinn silences them all.
>"They slew the Linnorm as one, they'll rule as one. Time will tell if they're worthy or not."
>Discussions finished, Freyr steps forth, bringing dire news from the borders.

>>44848306
This is an idea too.

>>44848336
Literally anyone with share spells and access to enlarging stuff.

I can't figure out how to make a wall in roll20. I imported my map and laid down some polygonal lines; my token, even in player-mode still goes right through the wall.

>>44848306

I'm actually digging this idea, from the Thanes we've seen in Jade Regent they're living a pretty good life.

>>44848535
Hunter then. They actually get a pseudo-free feat to get it.

Alright /pfg/, give it to me straight. How bad is the unchained summoner? Is it still breaky-breaky?

>>44848645
Nerfs the eidolon, doesn't do too much to the casting or summoning, from what I've heard.

>>44848648
it advertises a revised spell list due to imbalances of an undisclosed nature, which makes me hella suspiscious

>>44848539
The wall is treated as an object and not as an obstacle. there's no feature to make walls impassable as roll20's map making feature is like playing around with powerpoint presentations.

Is there any archetype that the Fighter has that can make him not complete shit?

I looked through all of it and can't imagine why anyone would ever choose this godawful class.

>>44848666
Really? I thought I recall not being able to go through walls on a game I was playing.

>>44847154
Sorry to push this again, just trying to get someone's thoughts on this/answer to the question.

>>44848666
What are you smoking mate. There totally is, I'm fairly certain it's tied to the lighting system in some way shape or form

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VOTE TIME:
Vote if you want Thaneship (And sticking with the lore)
OR
Semi-legitimate Linnorm Kings.
http://strawpoll.me/6571712

>>44848706
Oh, my bad. I don't have disposable income lying around to get exclusive access features like dynamic lighting from roll20

>>44848716
The made female queen would be interesting.

A PC that is much more powerful than their subjects ruling a kingdom by force and indulging in her own corrupt wishes would be a character I may be interested in playing. Like a mini-boss of some sort of manga series like Helck, Gurren Lagann, or Helck.

>>44848772
>A PC that is much more powerful than their subjects ruling a kingdom by force and indulging in her own corrupt wishes

It never lasts.
The best ways to rule a kingdom is with Bread and Circuses. Keep the idiots' attention diverted to petty things while I rob them directly in front of their faces.

>>44848772
Like whatsherface, the woman who abducted peasants and bathed in their blood?

>>44848889
Elizabeth Bathory?

>>44848889
Sarah Palin?

>>44848671
Not one singular archetype, but stacking two (or three) can get you comfortably into tier 4. If 3rd party playtest materials are available you can get to a pretty decent tier 3.

Lorewarden, Martial Master, Eldritch Guardian and Mutation Warrior are good starting places.

If you've got access to Path of War: Expanded, Myrmidon Martial Master Lore Warden Fighter is actually pretty impressive.

>>44848645
I dunno about mechanics (save for pounce costing 3 points instead of 1, which delays the point where a fighter is useless), but the alignment restrictions and overall flavorlocking is a pain in the ass.

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>>44848716
>>44848772
>>44848871

I dunno guys, becoming the new thanes on the block might make for some amusing side-story while giving players the opportunity to do all the shit they wanted to do as landowners.

Plus it turns becoming a Linnorm King from something arbitrary (oh, you HAVE to become one in the story) to something the PC achieves through personal ambition (I'm a thane, I'm rich, and I want to become a Linnorm King!) which is an extremely Ulfen thing to do.

>>44848660
it got a shitload of valuable combat buffs at a low spell level, which meant crafting potions of haste at half the price anyone else would

>>44848939
joke is on them (and my being a dickhead about this DM), I just wanted a snakedolon that can strangle dragons outta the fucking sky

>>44848889
Pretty much like that.

>>44848871
Of course she'd use trickery to make the peasants believe everything was just fine. She'd just be merciless when dealing with "Traitors to the glorious and fair queen, inciting riot and rebellion against the monarchy". She'd likely execute them in front of a large crowd with her own weapon, reminding the people that the queen was not just "fair", but also ruthless to enemies of the empire. To those that fought for her, they'd see her as an entity akin to a Goddess, while behind the scenes she was actually an extreme sadist and enjoyed abduction, torture, and bending her enemies to her will. She'd obviously be into young boys, as she finds them cute and likes to see their faces go from ecstasy from their first time being with the beautiful queen into absolute horror and twisted in pain as she shows her sadists desires tenfold to these children, having their first time being their last, as the maids and servants wait outside the room to clean up the bloody mess awaiting them at the end of their "session".

I've seen these sorts of characters in fiction before, but I've never tried playing one before. I think the biggest challenge would be trying to make her redeemable after the atrocities she commits (if the DM doesn't just eventually kill her off in his own disgust of her actions).

>>44848671
Lore Warden is alright if you're using combat maneuvers and want skillpoints; it stacks with Martial Master too, so you can have feats-on-demand.
Trench Fighter gets you Dex-to-Damage on guns faster than the Gunslinger does.
Mutation Warrior gives you discoveries and mutagens from the Alchemist, which is pretty handy.
Eldritch Guardian gives you better skills and a useful Familiar; go with the Mauler familiar archetype and it'll wreck face alongside you.
Myrmidon's an archetype by DSP that gives them Martial Maneuvers, Grit, Deeds, and other neat tricks that are handy for making them badass.

>>44848992
>Wanting to be someone's bitch
nah

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>>44849123
>not wanting an on-demand quest-giver that also leaves you alone most of the time to do whatever the fuck you want
It satisfies sandbox-fags, it pleases railroad-fags, and it lets you be Ulfen as fuck.

>>44849112
Any archetypes that compliment Trench Fighter?

Also, Trench Fighters' Dex to damage bonus stacks with the Gunslinger's Gun Training, right? Both also don't count as "Precision Damage", but just as normal bonus damage, yes?

>>44847598
Alchemist!

My buddy is playing a Gunslinger/Alchemist right now (not technically gunslinger but a class that has guns.)

He took this:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/explosive-missile
>As a standard action, the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb, load the ammunition, and shoot the ranged weapon.

It is INCREDIBLE that this can be used to completely negate the problems with gunslinger slow reload times. Standard action to load and shoot the weapon, uses bomb damage, and (someone correct me on RAI/RAW) it also targets touch AC (assuming normal rules for guns and touch AC)

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>>44849065

That sounds more like a power-mad Thane than a Queen, because you can be damn sure the other players (or the Ulfen people) would try to put a stop to it.

>>44849123

>Thane
>Being someone's bitch

The point of being a Thane is that you aren't somebody's bitch, you're a landowner that has a voice in the politics of your king. You were given that position through strength of arms and personal skill.

Besides, an "everyone becomes king" decision would result in that happening anyway, with one player becoming a King and everyone else becoming Thanes, if not in name than in practice. With the "party becomes thane" option at least they'll be keeping with Golarion lore and canon.

Plus the lands of Southmoor are very, very shitty. Kings of Southmoor might turn out to be more poor than being a Thane in the Thanelands, not to mention the Thanelands is where all the Tien girls are.

>>44849163
By the official ruling, you can not add the same stat to damage twice.

Have you ever played a squole?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/alluria-publishing/squole

>>44849183
I can already shoot as a free action and my gun is a two handed gun (I use a Modern Shotgun with Metal Cartridges). My archetypes are Siege Gunner and Musket Master.

>>44849223
Source?

>>44849249
That's fair, but my point about Bomb damage w/ gun and targeting touch AC with the bombs still applies. Can be amazing. He's targeting touch AC of lvl 10 enemies with like a +15 to attack, and dealing 5d6+7 damage, then setting the target on fire. Our poor DM is new, didn't even see it coming.

>>44849163
That outright help the Trench Fighter? Drill Sargent gives you some Cavalier team abilities and the like, which is handy if you've got other people to share teamwork feats around (especially if they also have guns). Otherwise, anything that doesn't replace Armor Training technically works.
>>44849163
Not true, you can as long as they're not from the same source or same-named source. Trench Fighter and Gunslinger have different effects, and thus they can both add Dexterity to Damage.

>>44849223
>>44849273
Found this on a forum:

"Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.
They are both 'untyped' bonuses that are from different sources (Gun Training, Trench Warfare) therefore, RAW, they stack.

Until errata that is."

>>44849288
Unless he's really twinking it out, it's doing way less damage than fast bombs, and possibly less than just full attacking with the gun.

Not that that can't upset shit, but it's nowhere near "poor DM!" levels of bad.

Is the Harbinger update anywhere available?

>>44849323
>>44849273
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sgk

Okay I don't consider myself new to PF (far from it), but I encountered something when my fiance played an Inquisitor. She decided to go the ranged option, and took a feat to get proficiency with Longbows.

Every time I hear people at my FLGS talk about how they minmaxed an Inquisitor, they are all melee.

Is this as broken as I think it is? She's level 10 right now, not minmaxed, and with 5 attacks per round she is dealing 6d8+12d6+24 damage per round if all 5 hit. Her average DPR is around 100.

Is there a reason I never hear of others doing it outside of "it's not overpowered until later and a feat dip to get the right things"?

>>44849310
The game I am in is going to go into a "Kingdom Building" setting in the future, according to the DM. Apparently we will all get Leadership as a bonus feat and be able to run our own kingdoms. Dunno what he plans in specific, but I think Drill Sargent (if it does as you describe) would be good for that. I probably could inspire my most powerful soldiers or my army or something. I dunno. I'll have to look into it.

You think that Drill Sargent would be worth the pick up in that campaign?

>>44849327
Dunno if he's going full bullshit with it, but Fast bombs is only great if you have a ridiculous amount of bombs, and you have the normal feat tax for getting all the requisite "rapidshot" feats and such.

When we are up against enemies that would normally be pretty tough to hit, its hilarious seeing him instead target the enemy's 15 touch AC instead of their 30+ AC, and doing a not-insignificant amount of damage each round completely reliably.

>>44849366
...how do you get 5 attacks a round at lv 10 with 3/4 BAB class?

>>44849366
Ranged Inquisitor is basically considered default. Ranged anything is generally just better if you only have 1pp in play.

>>44849470
Manyshot, rapid shot, haste?

>>44849470
ITWF and haste? I mean if a rogue hit for all 5 attacks with a dagger it would do 5d4+25d6+5*1.5str

>>44849183
There's a /pfg/ homebrew archetype called the Munitions Master.

Its an alchemist with gunslinger features and the ability to fast bomb explosive ammunition on firearm attacks. (Plus, other fun features, like turning a firearm attack into a cone attack, converting alchemic weapons like stunning vial and tanglefoot into ammunition)

>>44849470
What
>>44849505
>>44849470
said.

>>44849366
ARE all attacks hitting, though?

>>44849551
Don't take this harshly, but I always stay far away from 3rd party stuff and, to be honest, what you just described is the very reason why I do. :)

And again, no offense meant, but if your argument for something being viable is "this homebrew class can totally do it", that's not even a discussion anymore, haha.

>>44849366
>Every time I hear people at my FLGS talk about how they minmaxed an Inquisitor, they are all melee.

Because simply put - Inquisitors are some of the classes that can access "pounce" via the Stick Together feat + Ring of Ferocious action.

And his spell lists are better for melee than for ranged.

This makes the buffed up inquisitor on par with the barbarian in terms of melee damage output.

>>44849588
Hey, no offense taken. I didn't make the archetype - I'm just pointing out an option open to you.

>>44849577
Oh god no, she rolls like absolute shit.
The point is though with all the right buffs and such bad rolls can be mitigate, and it seems insane that she can get 5 shots of BANE off in a single round without any troubles. With good rolls she does an insane amount of damage compared to anyone else in the party.

I'm not saying I'm salty over it - she is loving it, she is rarely feeling powerful in these games (loves playing less direct classes), but I'm just surprised I never hear my local powergamers rolling up these characters.

>>44849621
Of course, thank you!

>>44849594
Not to mention, there are a TON of good melee-based teamwork feats than there are ranged ones.

>>44849594
I can definitely see the point there sure, but when Rangers can shred with all their multiple attacks/round, If you combine that with Bane or, god forbid, GREATER Bane at level 12, A ranged inquisitors damage per shot jumps to 1d8+4d6+Static Bonuses, and they have like 5-6 attacks per round, all with that same damage.

Just seems like it would be brought up more.

>And his spell lists are better for melee than for ranged
DEFINITELY agreed, she rarely uses her spells, and it usually boils down to self-buffs or healing.

Also, as someone said while I typed this, there ARE way more good teamwork feats for melee.

Still, in terms of pure damage output, this is quite a sight to behold.

Question about house rules:

Has anyone ever just let the martial classes make all their attacks as a standard action? Does it REALLY break anything if they can do more than those retarded bunny-hops to effectively use two weapons or a sword and shield?

>>44849366
Her average damage assuming all attacks hit at level 10 is 93. The expected HP of a CR 10 monster is 130. Even if she miraculously hits with all her arrows, she's not going to 1 round a CR appropriate monster. She's fine.

>>44849701
She's not making the most out of it, but its not her fault. Its her allies.

A Bow Inquisitor can do a TON of extra damage via ranged teamwork feats but only if three usual triggers take effect:

1) An ally fires a ranged weapon while coordinating with the inquisitor.
2) An ally lands a critical hit
3) An ally initiates a charge attack

Those 3 gives the ranged inquisitor extra AoOs with her bow. And if her allies happen to be a Hunter and a Cavalier, the damage all three of them could achieve is INCREDIBLE. People tend to underestimate teamwork feats, but it becomes incredibly great when the entire party uses teamwork feats.

>>44849770
It doesn't break anything, but it also doesn't really fix anything. You save some resources, but everyone knowing their salt already got full attacks anyway.

Some minor imbalances may occur at low levels of play, espeially with monsters who have multiple natural attacks, but no pounce.

>>44849843
>People tend to underestimate teamwork feats, but it becomes incredibly great when the entire party uses teamwork feats.

This. My DM cannot fathom how a group can quickly make multiple attacks of opportunities or gain 10s of bonuses to hit and several extra dies of damage just with teamwork feats. It really only shines out the most if the entire party uses them though.

>>44849793
Thanks for the response, Elric!
I will say though, that we are currently running Rise of the Runelords, and she is quite frankly making an absolute mockery out of most of the monster's statblocks in there.

Not sure if this is intended or not, but our DM has had to do some serious on-the-fly fixing of monster healths etc to stop her from ending encounters too easily.


Also, while I have you here, may I ask another question about RAW/RAI?

The spell Limp Lash - can you explain for me some of the reasons that spell has gone through changes, and how it is really supposed to work, in terms of the paralysis effect and the damage of it? It has been ambiguous, and a point of contention amongst our group to the point that we banned the spell because it spawned too much arguing.

>>44849366

Melee is for suckers, most people are suckers. A small mounted race would be even better.

I'm missing an attack though, 2 iteratives, rapid shit, haste or speed makes only 4, where is the 5th? (You're clearly counting manyshot as one attack.)

>>44849905
he said martial classes, not everyone.

>>44849843
>2) An ally lands a critical hit
>3) An ally initiates a charge attack
Would you mind giving me links to what these ones are? I thought we had scoured her list of teamwork feats, but we do not remember those.

Thank you!

>>44849910
I've never found teamwork feats to be that good, personally. Mind explaining why you think they are really good? Even as a Cavalier (who spreads his Teamwork Feats) I've found them to be too situational and lacking in diversity.

>>44849914
Limp lash is Paizo, anon, not DSP.

>>44849915
My mistake, it was supposed to be 4 attack rolls, 5 damages. I always get confused by that.

>>44849986
Oops. hehe. Thanks. Well my question still applies to the /pfg/ group here. Someone help us out maybe?

>>44849954
>>44849967

Not my own research, I just recalled a previous anon listed several good teamwork feats that grant an extra AoO

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/broken-wing-gambit-combat-teamwork

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/coordinated-charge-combat-teamwork

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/betrayal-feats/friendly-fire-betrayal-teamwork

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/seize-the-moment-combat-teamwork
(The most important teamwork feat to net all the AoOs with crit fisher and butterfly sting)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/target-of-opportunity-combat-teamwork

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/wounded-paw-gambit-combat-teamwork

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>>44848716

>those votes

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Through a series of strange event that led to a random encounter of 1d4 adult black dragons, we managed to capture one of them.

Since we're playing Kingmaker, we were thinking about training it for war purposes. Obviously a dragon is not easily tamed, if at all.

What if we Feebleminded it though? Would it become more docile/receptive to training?

>>44849914
Well, RotR and most other APs are really poorly balanced if you go by the book. They're made for people who are first time players rather than experienced or learned ones. Thus they tend to be a bit on the easy side. If your DM isn't compensating for the party properly, the encounters will seem really easy. It doesn't help that RotR is OLD and wasn't designed with newer material in mind.

Unfortunately I can't help with limp lash. That's a paizo spell and I'm slightly allergic to vancian casting anyway.

>>44850039
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/coordinated-charge-combat-teamwork
This seems to be for melee inquisitors, not ranged...

>>44850148
>I'm slightly allergic to vancian casting anyway.
Out of curiosity, what do you use as an alternative?

>>44850123
>What if we Feebleminded it though? Would it become more docile/receptive to training?

Nope. Its still a sentient being capable of near-human thought, unless you could drop his int down to animal-like intelligence (2-3)

How do I build an effective Cryptic? Can't seem to find the point of the class.

>>44850123
It would be more receptive to training but it would be fucking retarded so good luck having it distinguish friend from foe

>>44848219
Not first level you tard.

>>44850123
You don't train a human to be a warhorse, do you?

You make a mutual deal with a dragon. What could go wrong?

What 1st level spells are great for using against creatures with low will saves?

>>44850039
>Target of Opportunity
Holy shit. If I use that in my campaign (the kingdom building one), I can get a few soldiers that have that + Tactician to spread it through my entire army. Each time a single ranged attack hits, the entire section of the army within 30 ft of that target gets to shoot them too. That's gonna be fucking BROKEN AS SHIT!

So. You guys think I should do that? I want my lazy Gunslinger who doesn't seem like he'd go anywhere in life to end up being the most fearsome king in the world; likely with a little "Four Heavenly Knights" theme going under him too.

>>44850186
Path of War, Psionics and Akashic Mysteries. It's not that I don't allow it, I just prefer not to play vancian casters unless I'm gishing. I find them too removed from combat to usually be enjoyable.

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I'm making my first PFS character, I'm going to be a Nagaji, the question is: Ninja or Slayer?

>>44850039
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/betrayal-feats/friendly-fire-betrayal-teamwork

This is probably one of the best archery teamwork feats in my opinion.

>You hit an enemy while he's engaged in melee with your ally.
>If it hits, you ally gets a free whack.
>If your ally is a crit-fisher and lands a crit, he can activate butterfly sting
>Now, if you were using a firearm, and your crit-fisher buddy gives your butterfly sting's bonus, you free AoO is going to do x4 damage.
>Which you can do using friendly fire AGAIN
>repeat until the enemy is dead or your ally didn't roll a crit.

>>44850380
Oh god...I had a crit-fisher Swashbuckler. Why didn't I see this?

Oh right, because the session after I got butterfly sting, I died. :)

Good to know though, thanks anon!

>>44850380
How are you getting butterfly sting on a firearm? It only works with melee attacks

>>44850250
Reminder that it eats their immediate action. Which isn't bad, but you don't get that triggering for the same guy more than once.

>>44850423
Ally with melee takes Butterfly sting, and grants the bonus from his crit to you (who wields the firearm). Firearm crits with x4 or x5. Profit.

>>44850438
Hmmm... True.

>>44850446
>When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn.

So firearms are melee weapons now? Or is he using the butt of the gun or something?

>>44850446
Not legal, as it needs to be a melee attack instead. Use a Scythe for the same crit stupidity.

>>44850475
No need to get snarky, honest mistake.

>>44850380
Actually, you need a 3rd player.
The guy who benefits from butterfly sting is not the guy with the firearm.
Its the guy with the Sieze the Moment Feat.
Who THEN rolls another crit which then triggers firearm anon to get another extra AoO using friendly fire
WHICH THEN gives crit fisher anon another extra free attack and the circle completes.

So PFG, my party needs to depopulate a town of Vampires. The town is about 600 people, 1/3 of which are vampires, 60% of which are governmental vampires we NEED to kill, the rest are just completing the correction of their moral failing (not self-terminating upon becoming a vampire). How best do we go about this?

We have 10 days, a fuck ton of stakes, and moooost of them just need to be hit with Sacred Damage/Positive energy to keep from hitting mist. 1 needs to be hit with a Darkwood stake (we have 2) and 4 need to be killed with a SIlver Dagger to be staked (We have one).

Party Makeup is:

Human Warder/Cleric/Battle Templar
Half Giant Myrmidon
Elven Ranger/Warder
Dwarven Monk/Stalker
Dwarven Cavalier/Druid
Human Bloodrager/Mystic
Human Warlord/Phoenix Champion

>>44849701
I find one of the most overlooked magic items is the Bane Baldric. It's not Greater Bane but basically anyone can acquire a nice chunk of an Inquisitor's damage granted by class features.

I have an Investigator right now with half-elf substitution, a Bane Baldric and a +1 Inspired rapier. A 10th level version of the character would be going into combat with 18+1d8+2/13+1d8+2 attack bonuses and dealing 1d6+11+2d6+(1d8+2)×2 in damage without spending standard action(s) first to buff up like she is, and having access to mostly similar buffs anyway. This is not a particularly damage-focused class or character aside from those items and 2 investigator talents - I haven't even chosen feats or nearly spent a 10th level character's WBL yet. I think it's normal.

>>44850669
Nice! Yeah we haven't needed Bane Baldric, the party is enjoying itself, and our Inquisitor doesn't need more rounds of Bane. :)

>>44850188

That's literally what feeblemind does.

>>44850614
Ask them politely to leave, explaining why they can't be located where they are. Thank them when they comply.

Either that OR find a way to coexist with the vampires. Having bloodpacks on the market would make it so they didn't have to attack humans while also stimulating the economy through creating another need that can be supplied by merchants. It would be beneficial for everyone, including the vampires; not just because they would have bloodpacks as something they can purchase rather than risk their lives hunting for, but also because it will stimulate their town's economy and potentially turn it into a trading center of the world. It can also help the rest of their kind in getting accepted by the world.

Everyone benefits through the agreement of coexistence + the addition of another highly sought out trade-able good on the market. Convince the older vampires with the logical argument of future generations of vampires being safer and happier, while convincing younger vampires with the promise of a revolutionary future that breaks the old traditions that are long outdated (pander to what each will likely want to hear).

>>44850904

>Coexistence

Or they could do the right thing and destroy the vampire infestation so it never becomes a problem in the future.

This new age, passive attitude would not have worked back in the day.

>>44850954
>implying a passive attitude
>not implying the final solution
There are two final solutions; coexistence and genocide. I highly doubt that people will ever be able to completely wipe out vampires, thus the easier option would be coexistence.

Yet again, also speaking from an economist's point of view, including their needs in the market does more than just incentivize them to coexist but also helps the global economy massively. It literally is the best option for every reason.

>>44851007
>I highly doubt that people will ever be able to completely wipe out vampires, thus the easier option would be coexistence.

It worked for the Spaniards and Americans.

>>44850904
Our party, RP wise, consists of:

2 Humans part of an organization dedicated to eradicating the undead.
1 Human who is a religious fanatic who believes that vampirism is inherently a moral failing.
2 Dwarves and an Elf who hate them some undead and want to take back their stolen lands.
1 Half Giant who is literally a vampire hunter.

The Vamps already have the coexistence down, but from a very Lawful Evil perspective, having been invaders who took the land by force with vast amounts of bloodshed and "graciously" allow the humanoids to live there as not-quite-livestock. The campaign is about overthrowing them and, preferably, turning them back and wiping them off the face of the earth.

So yeah, that's not happening.

>>44851037
Problem is, they're the Spaniards/Americans. We're just "what if the Natives didn't get wiped out by disease and had only a slightly weaker tech base, but had a bunch of their land stolen in war anyways."

>>44851037
Vampirism is an incurable disease more than a race. Wiping them out would be nearly impossible, because as long as one vampire lives/one person wants to embrace vampirism there will never be an end to the vampires.

There is a reason that the age of Christianity and crusaders is called the dark ages.

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>start running a Curse of the Crimson Throne game
>first two characters are a Witch and a Harbinger who both had loved ones taken from them

dis gonna be good

>>44851056
>We're just "what if the Natives didn't get wiped out by disease and had only a slightly weaker tech base, but had a bunch of their land stolen in war anyways."

Sounds like the solution here is to gradually kill off the vampires while making sure they can't replenish their numbers.

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>>44851080
>There is a reason that the age of Christianity and crusaders is called the dark ages.

Okay, you're going full Fedora here bro.

>>44851056
Oh.

Then just go in and commit genocide against those villagers, ya damn psychopaths.

>>44850313
>Bee butts

Always relevant to the situation.

>>44850756
Yeah the point is mostly that an Inquisitor DOESN'T have much reason to get one; other classes can get one to steal one of their better toys, so if it does ever seem powerful, everyone else can do it too.

>>44851093
Yeah, but the problem is, you can't get make race mixing fashionable and unlike white people they give absolutely zero fucks about how oppressive their society might be.

>>44851115
Hey, the real villagers (EG, the ones who aren't invaders) are supporting us on this. And they're ultimately going to usher in an age of entropy and universal death due to their attempts to raise a dead god as a Deific Lich to lead the undead throughout the planes.

>>44851113
I'm saying, trying to commit genocide on the enemy won't work (the Muslims still exist) and zealotism of such sorts halt progress to better society.

I wasn't making a critique of religion, I was making a point.

I know that your response was a rhetorical fallacy, but I still had to respond genuinely.

Also (hypocrisy, I know); using "anime girl reaction image"? Come on dude. If you are trying to call out something like "full Fedora", don't do something similarly cringey.

>>44851165
The vampires/their undead allies, I mean, with the Deific Lich thing.

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>>44851182
>I'm saying, trying to commit genocide on the enemy won't work (the Muslims still exist) and zealotism of such sorts halt progress to better society.

You seem to be forgetting that the Muslims were in fact the zealous aggressors in the Dark Ages, and only became cultured after glutting themselves on the culture of the Byzantine East and Persian Empire. The Spaniards, centuries later, were also quite proficient in wiping out the Muslim presence in Spain after the Reconquista, which means what the anon needs is a proper inquisition to smell out the vampires from warm-bloods.

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>>44851182
>If you are trying to call out something like "full Fedora", don't do something similarly cringey.
Fuck off, reaction images are always okay on any board on 4chan, always have been.

>>44851165
Your party sounds like one that is full of hatred to vampires, so no alternate solutions than "MURDER EVERYTHING" seemingly exist. If there were, though, I would put in my two cents that vampires doing things like summoning dark gods tend to be their way of retaliation against the humans who are retaliating against them. The endless retaliation spiral can only stop once peace has finally been made and there exists no reason for vengeance (or at the very least a peace treaty with leaders coming together that wish for true peace between the warring races).

Just some food for thought. Maybe humans are the instigators, rather than the victims; though it is likely that both parties are instigators.

>>44851182
They were called the dark ages due to a lack of written texts from the era, not due to a lack of societal progress. In fact, the time you're calling the Dark Ages was actually when the term was coined - that was the late medieval period, where a whole fucking lot of interesting shit was happening in Europe in terms of advances in technology, metallurgy, farming, et cetera. Literally the only thing they didn't have better than the Romans by that point was Art and Armies, both of which were remedied by the Rennaissance, which was actually a regression in scientific ideas as the majority of the educated populace began masturbating over the philosophical achievements of Greco Roman culture.

In short, don't talk about shit you don't know.

>>44851236
Reaction images, yes. But it seems like times-are-a-changing. I was merely parroting a complaint I am starting to see more often to make a point (because subjectivity + perceptions = rhetorical fallacies that detract from the argument rather than add to it; though I admit I may have made the point in a bad way).

>>44851258
>Maybe humans are the instigators, rather than the victims; though it is likely that both parties are instigators.

Anon you're forgetting this bit

>The Vamps already have the coexistence down, but from a very Lawful Evil perspective, having been invaders who took the land by force with vast amounts of bloodshed and "graciously" allow the humanoids to live there as not-quite-livestock. The campaign is about overthrowing them and, preferably, turning them back and wiping them off the face of the earth.

The Vampires are the instigators, they're the ones at fault, and the Humans are absolutely defending themselves against the invaders. In cases like this the sins of the father are passed down to the son, otherwise the cycle of abuse and retribution will continue for as long as "coexistence" remains.

>>44851258
Nope, they were doing the summoning Dark Gods since the beginning some 600 years ago, when they first invaded the material plane. Humanoids were the victims from day one.

Are Gnome Immortal in Golarion?

>>44851340
So long as they keep doing lolrandumb shit, yes.

>>44851313
Ah.

Welp! My argument is moot if they truly are "BWAHAHAHA! WE ARE EVIL FOR EVILSAKE! LET US TORTURE THE INNOCENT!" types of characters.

Go on with the slaughter. The instigators seem to be one-dimensional characters that are practically "Evil person, kill them to save the world".

>>44851284
You know, I'll admit that my knowledge on history around that time only extends as far as my several college classes have taught me (I've only done mild research on that time period past that). You may be right or wrong and I wouldn't know (nor would I research to find out), so I'll say that I'm wrong here and that my point on the dark ages was completely irrelevant (though my initial argument on the stimulation of the economy through coexistence is still valid). I'm an economist, not a historian.

Thank you for clearing that up for me, though.

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>>44851340
I fucking hate Gnomes. Such a shit race.

>>44851407

But anon, they helped breed the half-ogre.

Don't you like half-ogres?

They got away with it, they totally got away with it and they mock you for it.

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>>44851407
I'm obligated to hate you.

>>44851361
I thought it got retcon somewhere that Gnome just age slowly and they suffer bleaching is entirely different thing.

>>44845100
Geas/Quest them with a contract. You can even make scrolls of it, and fluff them signing it into you casting it on them.

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>>44851479
Likewise.

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>>44845100
Be a Lawful Good Cleric of Asmodeus. Take Profession Barrister and help people win a hopeless case.

>>44851388
1) They're just trying to make the world more suitable for their existence. It just so happens that the world more suitable to their existence involves humanity as second class citizens and the resurrection of the dead god (which would make the environment so suitable for their existence that they wouldn't need to drink blood any longer). That was the reason why Humanity fired the first shot 600 years ago - it wasn't quite a case of "communication itself is an act of war", but it was a case of them trying to terraform the planet without concern for the life living there (this would not be the first time this happened, nor will it be the last, from my understanding of the setting).

In a scifi sense, they're the Photino Birds and we're Baryonic Life as a whole. Fortunately, we're close to parity on a magic/tech level, so we're not completely screwed.

2) I took a 500 level course on medieval/Renaissance history as my history elective in Uni; for those of us who were undergrads, that point got hammered home pretty much every day.

>>44851556
>Cleric
>Not Inquisitor

class features alone makes it very on-point that the inquisitor deals more with the gritty side of church politics.

>>44851479

I have never seen a gnome I didn't hate.

So what do you think about confirming critical hits?

>>44851565
>That was the reason why Humanity fired the first shot 600 years ago - it wasn't quite a case of "communication itself is an act of war", but it was a case of them trying to terraform the planet without concern for the life living there
Now I know this may sound disrespectful, but I must know; does your GM like Steven Universe?

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>>44851603
That's because they're busy doing awesome shit while you're posting in /pfg/

>>44851603
You can't hate a dead gnome

>>44851621
Hated with a passion. I even heard that Paizo's devs were 50/50 on that issue as well. "Tradition" won.

>>44851628
He knows what it is, but I don't believe he's watched it. I'm not entirely sure why it would be relevant, anyways, as he admitted he took most of his ideas for "Positive Energy Life and Negative Energy Life Relations on a Broad Scale" from the Xeelee Sequence. Again, Photino Birds vs. Baryonic Life, the parallels are there as they mean to drive Positive Energy Life to extinction by means of denial of resources.

>>44851448
my arcanumest nigga

>>44851565
Ah. Then it sounds like, if your party wasn't full of vampire haters, you could still technically convince them of coexistence.

Though it sounds like it is very unlikely, unless you can either show them the value of humanity/human-made goods or if you can show them that the god their ancestors have been trying to summon is not the way to their salvation.

Something that could possibly get through their heads is their acquired kushy lifestyles living with the humans already and how they'd be giving it up for an unknown that is likely to destroy the things they've found that they've valued about living in human society (technically multiple sentient creatures, but you know what I mean). You could show them that they enjoy living among humans more than they know and that there is still a way for both races to coexist happily.

Though, this is if your party wasn't full of zealots (no offense).

>>44847154
Bumping this once again.

>>44850268
Elric, if you're still up how can I explain Cryptic being balanced with regular Paizo classes? My GM is convinced it's better than every single skillmonkey and refuses to talk to you about it.

>>44851752
None taken. My original character (this character is her bastard cousin) was very much for the coexistence stance; but then the entire party came out with "Lets kill us some fuckin' vampires!", and the GM strongly hinted that Vampirism not only slowly drove people mad/evil if the proper conditions didn't exist on the plane (the proper conditions being what they're trying to usher in with the creation of the Deific Lich, which they know works because they've done it before on another Material Plane; it's not spiritual salvation, it's physical need they're trying to satisfy), but also basically cut off my idea of becoming the example of the friendly neighborhood vampire (fueled by the character's rather frail constitution and desire to be more able to help more people) for other vampires to follow.

Then, again, the Photino Bird/Baryonic Life parallels were brought up, so I dropped the character idea and made her a bastard cousin brought up to be a vampire hunter. What you seem to be missing, here, is the fact that coexistence isn't just "hard", it's impossible long term because of their plans to reshape the environment to suit them will kill off the Positive Energy Life, and there's nothing we can offer of value to them to stop that from happening. Thus, for our own survival, we must make war.

>>44851840
Look into how awakening inanimate objects works, as well as the build point stuff for constructs (iirc, I've only ever been to that part of the rules once, though it turned out to be well worth it) You'll definitely be able to get trample mechanics based off of those

>>44851752
>>44851924

Also, while there are plenty of "noveau" vampires, the ones actually in charge of their society have been there since the Silence, at least (which happened some 4000 years ago, long enough that my previous character in this setting had a sword forged before that time, and it barely remembered anything about it because it was going senile).

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[Neck and Neck intensifies]

>>44851598
>>44851556
>LG Cleric
>of an LE god

Do (Su) Strikes count as magic for the purposes of Incorporeal?

>>44851082
Why? I played part of CotCT and don't remember having lost lovers being significant... Are you wanting to get the two of them hitched?

Sauce on the image?

What's the best classless way to deal damage? Say you're an Expert or something.