MTG Modern General

LET FLY THE CONTROL SHITBREWS

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>twin banned
PREPARE THY ANUS MAYO SKINS

Wow, there are zero viable combo decks in Modern.

TWIN IS BANNED

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

THANK YOU BASED GOD

Modern's metagame will now be Tron vs. Affinity vs. Infect.

There's no real reason to play white or blue spells now, we're going to see 3 months of GBx midrange bullshit cluttered up by decks trying to be pure control, Merfolk trying to be a thing, and everyone clammering for Stoneforge Mystic and Ancestral Visions to be unbanned to push blue and white spells back into the metagame.

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Haha time for ceaseless searblades to shine!

>>44808022
Just use Kiki :^]

>>44808022
>people trying to play combo in the "no turn 4 wins" format

Brought it on yourselves really.

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>>44807986
IM DOIN IT MAN

BUILDING ESPER GIFTS

NO ONE'S GUNNA STOP ME

>>44808022
We'll have to wait and see on that. I'm expecting a form of twin to stick around as Kikijiki Control/Tempo, just swapping those twin slots for the goblin and taking an extra turn to take their shot.

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At FNM someone showed me some newer fakes, and they're flawless. As long as the most valuable cards are pre-Origins, the secondary market can get fucked.

>>44808033
Oh, I forgot to mention Burn. Burn will be the thing that people forget about, and then it'll spike a GP or SCG Open or maybe even this PT, get hated out, and forgotten for 2-3 weeks before it rears it's red-headed face again.

>tfw you are a combo and blue player

Guess they want me to quit magic, they could have at least unbanned some blue cards, but now I doubt that there is even gonna be a single viable blue deck or real combo deck.

>>44808022
Scapeshift is pretty good, but stinks against Affinity and Burn.

Living End rocks against these decks and Tron. Mainboard Land Destruction and 3CMC Instant Wrath followed by a 2 turn clock is very nice.

So let me get this straight, if decks are good they get banned?

>>44808019
Why does this deck run Atarka's Commands?

>>44808080
Yep. Welcome to how WotC wants to drive away all its players.

>>44808080
No, I doubt they even looked at Tron when considering bans.

>>44808080
They were "degenerate" decks. Basically any deck that can consistently win by turn 3-4 is a big no-no.

>>44808080
Welcome to Modern friend. Did you get your playset of Scalding Tarns yet? :^)

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>>44808080
Precisely. The slow death of a format.

Twin players on suicide watch.

>SCG knows about bans
>spikes price of Tarn

GR Tron wins, mono u and uw cucks need not apply

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>blue can't get good cards because of twin
>the only viable blue deck: twin banned, still no unbans

I guess I should just give up, Aggro vs BGx Midrange seems to be the format they want.

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>All these people bitching about Modern
>Could have been playing based Legacy all along for a negligible price difference from what they paid to build their Modern deck

>>44808127
My 2hg teammate for the prerelease I'm at just foiled out Twin. I had to basically build both of our decks.

>>44807986
Time to play UW titan control because it plays 4x ghost quarter. need to fit a crucible in there.

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MAYBE IF WE ALL MOVE TO LEGACY WE CAN SAVE THE LAST FORMAT WORTH A DAMN!

Does this mean we can have Legacy generals now?

>>44808144
>Not going Bant titan for E. Witness

>>44808073

Do I tell him about Eldrazi, or let him see next week?

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>>44808162
Looks like I'm not selling out of legacy afterall. Gunna start making tthe effortt to go to more events

>>44808166
maybe just merge the two into one thread.

>>44808136
I think you meant Tron.
Jund is dead now.

>>44808065
I need to get me some of those. Too many cards cost over $200 for a playset.

>>44808141
>spend $3000 on a deck
>no one in your area plays legacy
Kek

>>44807960
i can fucking buy scalding tarns!!!

>>44808143
Is your teammate a really fat dude from Alabama? I think I know him.

>>44808162
>Who do you hate?
>Judges
>Four Horsemen
Holy shit I'm dying.

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>>44807960
>everything but turn shit sideways and win decks are banned
>MFW

/edhg/ here. Just wondering, is your format now an even bigger joke than ours?

>>44808063

And then having Kiki get bolted and scooping?

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Get your ravagers before they spike hard

>>44808202
Yeah, that's much less skill intensive than turning shit sideways, then upright, then sideways again 20 times :^)

>>44808212
Hey at least they're not trying to ban off colored fetches in our format

>>44808143
That was a sarcastic joke. I didn't think there was any truth in the statement.

>>44808187
No one plays Legacy because they play fucking memedern. The cost of entry into the format can't even be an excuse anymore since Modern staples are now back-breaking expensive due to the manipulation of the secondary market and Wizards refusing to offer sufficient reprints.

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>twinfags tears

>>44808226
ok aggrobabby, whatever you say, its not my fault you faggots killed the modern format.
i'm gonna go off playing legacy laughing at this joke of a format.

>>44808094
Because it does 6 damage for 2 mana.

>>44808214
By that same logic your twin target could get pathed or smother'd. Dies to removal is a fact of the game.

>>44808187
>spend 800 on your deck, trade for the last 700
>have deck forever
>best FNMs
Thank you based god

>>44808232
There's no way the rest of the rules committee will let Sheldon get away with this.

>>44808241
I'm not a Twin player, and I'm pissed. The format just lost an important balancing factor.

>>44808252
>turn 1 serum visions
>turn 2 remand
>turn 3 exarch
>turn 4 twin
le epic skill meme

>>44808265
Path isn't the most common form of removal in modern. The 4 toughness on Exarch is part of what makes him so good.
Kiki is harder to play and can be bolted in response

>>44808259
Six? By letting you drop a land for a bolt or for pumping up your creatues?

>>44808238
There aren't remotely enough legacy staples to support a large playerbase, if modern players started switching to legacy the prices of legacy staples would skyrocket to compensate.
>>44808241
Keep laughing, but just make sure you remember that their tears might soon be yours.
>>44808273
Does anyone even pay attention to what those faggots say since the tuck rule was changed?

>>44808273
>there's no way WotC will ban Twin
Nothing is sacred

>>44808141
I got modern merfolk so I could always move to legacy.

>>44808169
double green is pretty hard when you want 7 plains.

>>44808285
>I play an uninteractive deck
>Therefore Twin should be banned
Thoughtsieze and Abrupt Decay exist.

>>44808298
>Does anyone even pay attention to what those faggots say since the tuck rule was changed?
We kind of have to since these faggots make the official rules.

>>44808301
I have the hope that there will be enough backlash against this that they'll overturn the banning.

Should I build the new eldrazi deck and get rid of GR tron? Not because GR tron is bad but because it might get a ban soon.

>>44808312
Abrupt decay is fucking awful against twin, I have no idea where people get the idea that it's good.

>>44808324
Wizards likes to double down. I could see it happening maaaaaaaaaaaybe next unbanning but I doubt we'll get an emergency unban

>>44808334
I hate how Wizards now has us too worried to play good decks.

>>44808340
Are you for real right now?

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>tfw your deck gets banned
>tfw your backup deck is a chord deck
>tfw chord decks are going to become super popular now and get banned

>>44808162
This is amazing

>>44808348
Voice is $80 too right now.

>>44808334
Just wait a couple tourneys to see how dominant tron becomes. Tron eats shit most of the time to burn, merfolk, affinity, and infect. So it probably won't become too large a part of the format to warrant any bannings. Besides, there's nothing hugely degenerate in the deck. It's just doing easily disrupted ramp.

>>44808162
>no, i want them to know i hate them
>stax
holy hell i had a good laugh at that, i love stax so damn much.

>>44808378
Tron was already the second most played deck behind Twin.
Now the deck that policed it is gone and an instant speed Pyroclasm that gets around "protection from red" is coming

>>44808162
>do you miss a lot of triggers?
>no
>elves
Dying here

>>44808162
Is Affinity an actual deck in Legacy?

>>44808344
I am for real, abrupt decay isn't good against twin. It costs BBGG, and if you're leaving that up the twin player can just do something else and make you waste your turn because the majority of their deck operates at instant speed. It's gets even worse if the game drags on once the twin player has gotten to 7 mana.

Well if anyone wants to play infect, now is your time to buy it before it takes over the format.

>>44808422
Legacy "affinity" is basically tezzerator

>>44808402
I'm not convinced kozilek's return is going to replace pyroclasm. Tron's worst match up is merfolk and not getting that turn 2 pyroclasm can let them get out too many lords for you to burn out.

>>44808431
Is it any good?

>>44808422
Everything is a deck in legacy. Aggto Affinity, Tezzeret Affinity, aggro tezzeret affinity, MUD is basically big affinity

>>44808427
Abrupt Decay is not 4 mana

>>44808428
I already did, in anticipation of a sfm or sword unban. Fuck lifegain.

>>44808427
I seriously wonder what the fuck card you are thinking about right now.

>>44808094
Idk, I couldn't think of anything else to put in there

>>44808427
>BBGG

>>44808438
it's ok

it's not like a top deck or anything

>>44808438
Affinity with sol lands and artifact lands seems pretty good. I've never played with or against it

>>44808449
>>44808462
If you want to cast abrupt decay you have to leave up BBGG, otherwise they can tap your land and you're dead.

>>44808197
YES

>>44808492
you abrupt in response to the tap
you dont get the twin out of their hand but it works

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>Everyone wanted a modern format Pro Tour.
>Everyone wanted to see their meta decks win in the hands of their shitty idols.
>Wizards has to keep the format fresh because of PT.
>Resulting in yearly chaos in the format and expensive decks turning to rubble.

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>>44808492
I seriously want to know what the fuck you're thinking right now.
You do realize you can tap the land Exarch/Pestermite is targeting for mana, right?

>>44808039
This card's gonna be on a fumarole in modern

>>44808536
He's talking about in response to the twin being cast. Basically he's a bad player that likes to die to blues card advantage.

>>44808506
Tell Ethan that Nate says hi and that he is sorry for loss.
Are you guys at TBS?

Salty Twin player here. I'll be laughing my ass off when I cash out of modern because the entire format is Tron, Eldrazi, and Infect trying to take them out. Anybody who agrees with the banning of splinter twin is a bad magic player.

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>wotc thinks the twin ban brings more diversity to blue decks
>mfw twin was one of the best matchups for those blue control decks and kept bad matchups for them down (tron etc.)

They really don't what they are doing

>>44808536
You also play lands that tap for more than one color. If you have 2 overgrown tombs and a swamp they can't take you off of it.

>>44808531
why not unbans instead of bans? it certainly wouldn't piss people off as much

>>44808558
I'm actually going to buy Twin now since I'm sure this is going to get overturned.

>>44808560
They've never known what they're doing. This format is mismanaged and over-policed, and it will be its downfall.

>>44808438
It's a chalice deck so it's gonna be inconsistent. Sometimes you get free wins, sometimes you do fuck nothing. At least you have FoW.
Aggro affinity is also a thing which is basically modern affinity + artifact lands but you get turbo fucked by combo so it's not very good.

>>44807960
http://youtu.be/NXX8URSUWm0

>>44808583
I've kinda come to this possibly delusional conclusion
Wizards cant fuck up forever

>>44808628
anon as someone whos been part of this game longer then WOTC, i can tell you, wizards can in fact keep fucking up forever, and they will.

So if Wizards is going to keep banning combo, why don't they UNBAN blue stuff?

With Twin and Bloom gone, it's safe to unban Ponder, Preordain, Ancestral Visions. Maybe Stoneforge too so that white weenie and swords of x and y will be good for once.

>>44808628
>cant fuck up forever

I came here to laugh at you

>>44808536
Yes I am aware, and that's acceptable, but it's not good. You spent your whole turn casting a removal spell against the deck with inevitability, it's necessary to have in your deck but it's not "insane" against twin like people make it out to be.
>>44808553
What?
>>44808571
Sure, in game 1. If you try that in game two you just have to scoop when they play blood moon.

>>44808665
but can they fuck up enough to completely ruin the game? Time will tell.

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I have 3 decks built for Modern:

>Affinity
>Tron
>Soul Sisters

I remember when I bought my Ravagers at <$20.
I remember when I bought my Groves at <$50.
I remember when I bought my Karns for <$20.
I remember when I bought a foil Mox at ~$25.

>my actual face when reading the banlist update

HAHAHAHA FUCK TWIN
GOOD RIDDANCE DOGSHIT
GOOD
FUCKIN
RIDDANCE
DOGSHIT

>>44808693
Game 2 you get forest swamp overgrown.

>>44808670
They can't just do all that at once.

Let the Twin ban settle down and then reintroduce one or two of those cards slowly

>>44808695
They definitely can, and it will eventually happen. Whether this particular event is part of that eventual downfall, or it is still far off only time will tell.

>>44808701
>Karn_posting_on_4chan.jpg

>>44808162
Wow, Doomsday Fetchlands Tendrils looks fun AND cheap.

>>44808693
The only time you'll spend your "whole turn" on waiting with Abrupt Decay is the turn where you can't leave mana up for Decay.
If you have 4 lands, you can drop a Goyf and still have AD mana. It literally stops the combo and there's nothing they can do about it.

>>44808697
God I bought my grove set for literally $8 back in the day simply because I loved the art. I still love the art but I think it's time to sell.

>>44808695
anon they already have, sets have been complete shit post zendikar, and quality will keep going down as time goes on, most formats have eaten shit, extended is literally dead, modern is about to die a horrible death, vintage is irrelevant, legacy is fucked over by reserve list faggotry and collectors and standard has always been shit.

There are so many decks that could pop up out of no where now that twin is gone...

>>44808726
>blue duals
>cheap

>>44808750
They won't. Tron will absolutely crush them.

>>44808719
I kind of want to sell out of magic but at the same time I love the game. Whatever I'll ride it till it dies

.

>>44808750
>implying
the literal only chain that holds tron and memerhino decks down just died a horrible painful death via WOTC AIDS.

>>44808726
Doomsday is fun, plus you look like hot shit even though all your piles are IU, LED LED, Git probe, burning wish.

ANT runs less duals, it's also pretty cheap

>>44808759
It doesn't run FoW so it's $400 cheaper

ITT
>overreacting

can someone the exploitable like the one where an anon says "Stoneforge will be fine for Modern" and then it's a picture of a batterskull at the keyboard? I wanna make one with an anon saying Twin deserved the ban and then have Karn sitting at the computer

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>>44808851
dude how can you overreact to the DEATH OF MODERN also the DEATH OF MAGIC THE GATHERING

>>44808759
That's why you substitute shocklands.

>>44808734
He likely doesn't understand why leaving BG up even when you don't have decay might be a good idea vs twin.

>>44808865
Shocklands are a little rough with doomsday

>>44808851
>implying
poor anon, he doesn't even know his tron deck is next on the chopping block.

>>44808863
you forgot the tm on the last one

>>44808778
I'm building my first paper deck. While I have my doubts that everything going to be peachy keen, I realize that the ship can be salvaged. Sure, WotC fucked up. And they're going to continue to fuck up. But the wonderful thing about all this is that we can vote with our wallets and with our attendance to events. Its up to them to decide whether or not they unfuck themselves, but they've shot themselves in the foot before and they'll do whatever they can to bandage it up. There are times in the history of magic where similar things have occurred, typically by printing things without testing them. Now we're just on the opposite side of that fence, banning things without testing them. I predict that they're going to turn it around in the next year or two.

Anyone else think it's funny WotC just had to have a big announcement on leaks, then releases a beta mtgo client with the ban implemented and this leak on the mothership? I mean how fucking incompetent can you get.

>>44808896
I hope so. Wizards is slow like the Catholic Church, but at least WOTC apologises for its proverbial pedophiles

>>44808697
I'm done jizzing all over myself now.

In all seriousness Tron isn't as overpowered as all the doomsayers are yelling about. It still has plenty of bad matchups and decks that can race it.

People act as if it having this unbeatable lategame is the end of Modern. Problem is, IT HAS ALWAYS HAD AN UNBEATABLE LATEGAME.

Affinity especially isn't due to the presence of Kolaghan's Command. Hell, there's even a super solid new common from Oath that reads:
"Natural State"
G
Instant
Destroy target artifact or enchantment with CMC 3 or less.

Honestly, the real reason Twin got the axe is because of the second sentence in the explanation:
>They can also reduce diversity by supplanting similar decks.
That right there is reason #1. Any other reason is functionally insignificant. People literally started jamming Twin into any deck with UR in it because the opportunity cost was so damn low.

To crush Tron, you need to start building Modern stax decks. Twin and Bloom being gone will make counterspells less important, so get to work on cucking Tron players with mass recurrent land destruct. Be sure to include Chalice of the Void, Ghostly Prison etc. to hold off the aggro players.

Think of this more as a dark time in Modern where you later emerged to a better time.

The dark days of Robots Tron and Affinity

I can't tell if everyone here is a salty twin player, or just overreacting as fuck. Most likely both. Modern will be fine - Sure, Tron and Affinity will be strong now, but they're not unbeatable and hate for both is widely available. Other decks will rise to their surge in popularity.

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>>44808094
> being this stupid

>>44808969
I just built twin last week

And have been playing testing almost every matchup with my buddies who have a large variety of decks...

The deck is completely average but can eek out so wins but no more so than tron or affinity can.

>>44808936
this twin ban is either going to pan out like the nacatl ban or the pod ban.

>>44808788
Tron eats memerhino decks.
And Tokens, and SS, and D&T, and Hatebears, and Jund, and Midrange and Control as a whole, and Scapeshift and 8Rack and Zoo and CoCo and Merfolk and Elves, Goblins, Lantern and Storm.

If you're playing a turn 4+ deck that depends on colored permanents you won't beat Tron.
The new meta is Tron vs Burn/Affinity.

>>44808941
I hope you're right

>>44808190
84 USD sorry bud

With a twin ban this means I really don't have to main spellskite anymore, well maybe I can bring it back down to just 2. Baby steps /tg/ baby steps.

>>44809010
Scratch that they're about 100USD

>twin banned
YOUR MEMES
END HERE.

>>44808835
>on the draw against tron
>have a fulminator mage and sowing salt
>turn 3 karn
:^)

>>44808951
Tron just got an instant for G that reads "Fuck Affinity lol!".

Burn is our only saviour.

>>44809074
Why are you playing a bad deck that loses to turn 3 karn?

>>44808969
>Other decks will rise to their surge in popularity
See you in three months, anon. Mark my words, either there will have to be major unbans or Tron will have to be axed.

You can't kill control and combo and have a healthy metagame. Fast mana and linear aggro will be all that remains, and the best in each category will comprise T1. Everything else will be T2 or worse.

>>44809084
>the only thing saving us from a linear autopilot deck
>is a linear autopilot deck

>>44809084
losing an artifact or two doesn't stop robots

>>44809084
I think they already had one

>>44809092
>Next April
>Burn is over-represented and beating all the Tron decks, we have to say goodbye to the biggest mistake in Magic: Lightning Bolt.

Thanks little Timmy.

>>44809095
Clasm + instant speed colourless Clasm does

>>44809095
T1 artifact destruction, T2 Pyroclasm, T3 Kozilek's Return does tho. Now that Twin is gone Tron will sideboard 6 cards vs Affinity, 6 vs Burn and 3 that overlap for both.

>>44809098
It gained the opponent 4 life, this lets them race more.

>>44809133
They aren't going to play anything else?
They draw those cards and natural tron?

>>44809091

Wizards banned all those blue draw spells as "combo enablers." Well they've forced the biggest combo decks to run Kiki-Jiki and Asuza instead of Twin and Bloom, nerfing them heavily.

What's next? Either they keep banning decks just for being good, or they unban stuff that is safe to unban now.

>>44807960
>haven't bothered to keep up with Modern
>forgot the banlist was happening
>Amulet Bloom and Splinter Twin have been dismantled

So all those people are gonna play Infect now, right? If they still want their potential Turn 2 or 3 instant wins.

>>44809133
Affinity can run hand disruption, blood moon and counter spells. It won't be that easy

>>44809152
They won't be satisfied until everyone is memeing each other with goyfs and rhinos

>>44808072
>I doubt that there is even gonna be a single viable blue deck
Merfolk, m8 :^)

>>44808141
>negligible price difference

This is a nice lie.

what affinity list should i buy into modern with? Also is there recomended reading for affinity aside from the primer?

>>44809158
nah the new hotness now is tron and meme rhino midrange decks.

>>44809158
Those people are going to not play anymore, at least the majority. After the pod bannings, most pod players I knew sold their deck and either moved on to legacy, edh, or cube/drafting. I expect most twin players to do the same.

>>44809166

It's funny how they talk about Twin reducing metagame diversity but they never say the same thing about Goyf.

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>>44809042
The cost of magic

Hey guys, I was considering making a UR scry deck with that guy from theros who got +2/+0 and first strike each time you scry and things to make them unblockable. I figured now would be a good time since Tarns are going to come down in price soon.

Any recommendations?

>>44809181
I can build a legacy deck for between 1000 and 1500 dollars

>>44809038
Theyll go down, price memory doesnt mean shit when the card isnt used in any competetive decks. It'll drop, it just needs time.

>>44809203
>Rhino
>new hotness

Rhino's been a plague since that faggot showed up. I'm STILL mad that Pod, especially when their little paragraph explanation boiled down to nothing but "yeah we know this deck doesn't actually win tournaments but we don't like it and want more shitty decks to have a chance, so it dies"

Them pretending they give a shit about what they can and can't print in the future for non-rotating formats is a blatant lie because they printed Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time without a second though.

Sold everything in my Pod deck hours before that list got out. Only thing I wound up losing on was Voice of Resurgence, since its risen a few bucks.

>>44809205
I don't blame them. Can't wait for WotC to phase out Modern in a few years to replace it with Modern 2.0 "only the cards with the new design template allowed"

>>44809227
Limited

Finally, I can get back to playing Creatures: The Tappening

>>44809148
If you stop affinity's opening hand you're usually safe for 3-4 turns until they can build back.

>>44809212
green is fine, its supposed to be the strongest color. Stfu noob.

So how long do you lot reckon it will take SFM to drop down to $15-20? TCG tells me the annual spike in January usually takes ~6 months to work off, but with the promo available will it come down faster?

>>44809255
They move standard to a faster rotation, then set modern on a two year rotation. Perfect.

>>44809256
Limited?

>>44809203
Stop crying about Rhino, it hasn't shown up in a while and that won't change now that his best match is gone and his worst match is king.

>>44809201
>buying into a meme format
Have fun when your opals get banned next year
>>44809212
Because they want goyf to be good, they want modern to be a creature centric midrange format like standard, just with a larger card pool.
>>44809227
Normally I'd tell you it's a bad idea as if you're playing UR you would just be much better off playing twin, but now that twin is out of the way your deck will definitely be viable now :^)

>>44809282
GP Promos don't really do shit to a card's price after the initial wave of panic at the reveal. Liliana of the Veil, Primeval Titan, and Griselbrand are good examples.

>b-but muh format police!
Lmao, get the fuck out and never come back

>>44809181
Ill take a 2000 dollar deck that isnt going to be invalidated at the drop of a hat over a 1400 dollar list that is

>>44809212
It's cause Goyf isn't really a build around me card like twin was, it's a "Throw this in to make your deck better" card

>>44809212
Goyf is 150-180. Twin was less than 30.

>>44809282
I hope it goes down next week because there's a sealed GP coming near me and I want to buy the copies off the faggots who drop and need to recover some bucks.

"I am the judge, jury and executioner." *Shoots down two tier decks*.
-Wizards 2016

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>>44808362
Really? Wanted to trade away mine during prerelease weekend, but I guess ill be building GW Bears instead now the biggest boogieman got thrown out the format.

>>44809298
Griselbrand used to be over 20. Now it's like 10.

The only deck I actually enjoyed playing is no more. Why even play modern?

>>44809355
If you like playing aggro or tron/eldrazi

Will there be any new decks to take the place of Twin?

What do you reckon I put to Tron sb to replace Rending Volleys, more lifegain/needles against LD?

>>44809432
aggro and tron/eldrazi

>>44807960
>Twin banned
THE ABSOLUTE MADMEN

>>44809432
>"new"
Maybe eldrazi, but that's basically "Tron-lite". Same shit different cards.

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2016 lets make america great again

>>44809369
What if I don't like creatures

>>44809548

congrats, you're a burn player now

remember to be really passive aggressive about the cost of your deck

/r/ing that "scientists baffled by company's incredible ability to fuck up every time" shoop with WotC edited in, because I saved it yet it's nowhere to be found

>>44809548
You need to quit magic, as you are not the target audience.

Will UR Kiki even be viable or are you better off just moving to a different deck ?

>>44809651
This, unless you get excited over cards like siege rhino then you probably shouldn't be playing magic anymore outside of cube.

>>44809237

You can build a decent 12-Post variation for $60.

>>44809678
It will be playable and will do okay against other tier 2/3 decks, but it won't be anywhere near competitive.

>>44809682
I just want to play my mana drain deck in modern

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>>44809596

>store announced the bans
>everyone rushed up to the register to buy Kikis
Fucking bought a set on ebay right there cause I was already planning on kiki-chord, I aint letting a buyout fuck me out of that

>>44808019

>>44809685
For 1100 you could build MUD

Screw it I guess I'm just going to build Scapeshift, I have the Mistys, Snaps, Cryptics and Remands.

soooooo...

any non-Tier 1 decks that lose to Twin and also lose to anti-Twin sideboard?

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>>44809816

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>Went 5-1 tonight
>only lose to twin

Tron? That shit doesn't have shit on Aven Mindcensor and Clique. Affinity? Infect? More electrolyze fodder. Already playing 3 copies of Resto might just stick a kiki in there for jokes

>>44808080
Play Legacy if you want good decks.

>>44809828
It can't possibly be as bad as UR Kiki. The only other deck I could build is Junk.

>>44807960
>twin banned
>don't really have to worry about control anymore when I play grishoal
>soul sisters lost a great matchup though

I'm conflicted.

>>44809841
Play legacy if you don't want your format to be changed radically to highlight new cards at the pro tour

ITT: butt hurt twinfags and people that don't know that modern has a lot of fucking combo decks. For one, storm just mangles tron, has a good win rate vs affinity, and access to options out of the board, and it's burn matchup is pretty good as long as you can dodge an eidolon. Scapeshift can literally hear any aggro deck if you build for it, and it's win rate vs tron is stupidly high.

>>44809882
Soul sisters isn't a real deck and how is twin a good matchup for a slow creature deck with no interaction? It probably gets less awful now though as burn will be more popular.

>>44809728
>people saved my image
It feels good to have made a contribution.

>>44808223

affinity is dead with kozilek's return. instant speed colorless pyroclasm is probably the biggest silver bullet the decks faced in the format.

>>44809914
You can't exarch if there's a soul warden in play, you can't pestermite if there are two

>>44809914
One sister in play and they can't win with exarch. Two and they can't win with pestermite.

>>44809914
Sisters plays paths, sometimes flickerwisps, which is about all you need, it doesn't beat tron anyway but fair decks, burn etc can't race it after they gain 20 life from a Martyr and start hitting with a Serra Ascendant or Ajani Pridemate.

>>44809914
>sisters is bad

It's got a few real bad matchups, but most are around 50/50. Couple free wins too.

Play auriok champion and twin has a lot of trouble. Twin's shitty beats and burn generally won't work on soul sisters either.

>>44809902
>and it's burn matchup is pretty good as long as you can dodge an eidolon
I don't even believe you're that stupid, I just think you lied.

>>44809891
This. Fuck all you fucking faggots who cried about there not being a modern pro tour.

>>44809678
just fucking play flash holy shit

>>44809298
Liliana was not a GP promo. Every card that gets a GP promo has lost more than half it's price by February so SFM should be $10 by then unless SCG outjew even themselves.

>>44808670
all of these help storm.

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I had a dream of times gone byyyyy
When money was made and used and wasted
I had a dream twin would never dieeee
I dreamed that Wizards would be forgiving

But the bans they come at night
Their love of Tron as soft as thunder
As they tear my deck apart
As they turn you twins to dollar rareeees!

So just play U/R control with mainboard bloodmoons (blue moon) now? With twin gone, tron, infect and affinity are going to be everywhere.

>>44808670
>unbanning storm pieces
>laughingmaros.gif

>>44810047
do Eminem - Without Me

>>44808936
>Problem is, IT HAS ALWAYS HAD AN UNBEATABLE LATEGAME.

You don't fully grasp the nature of the modern metagame.

Tron had this incredible late game inevitability, this allowed it to run roughshod over slower decks looking to go long (jund, uwr, midrange in general). Twin, along with the unfair decks (grishoalbrand, burn, storm, infect) kept trons bullshit late game in check, limiting it's metashare to a reasonable level. Twin had an unfavorable matchup against the grindy midrange decks that packed 1-for-1 answers to threats, allowing them to punch a hole in twins unfair strategy while still out grinding snapcasters and cryptic. Both jund and twin were slightly unfavored vs some of the fast agrro decks and unfair decks, while being slightly favored against some others. This system allowed for many decks to exist in the modern metagame and prevented massive metashare from one deck, because it had a predator/prey relationship with another big archetype.

Banning twin from the meta completely destabilizes the format, now the unfair/aggro decks that are favored vs jund and tron will be able to completely dominate the meta, which will lead to tron inbreeding heavily to be able to beat them.

Is this really surprising news given that Tron and Bx eldrazi are about to get filled with delicious chase rare support in Oath? It only makes sense for WOTC to ban the decks that keep those uninteractive battlecruiser fedora-piles at bay.

>>44810052

whatever the question may be, blue moon is never the answer. unless that question is "what's a bad deck i can spend a horrendous amount of money on?"

>>44810067
I think that song would be better if they announce an unban, if they ever do anon I swear on my worthless playsets of exarch, pestermite and twins that is the first thing ill do.

>>44810118

thank you. the modern metagame was a fairly healthy ecosystem and if anything could've profited from some unbannings. it's pretty much just cancer: the format now.

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T-THEY'LL UNBAN IT IN APRIL YOU'LL SEE

>>44810173

shhhhh no more modern. only legacy now.

>>44810173
On April 1st maybe...

Um, why do you even care what WOTC says about which cards you can play?

You're the owner of the cards. Play whatever you want.

You're not a pro player, you don't need to play at an "officially sanctioned" gamestore. That's all a giant pyramid scheme to get your money into WOTC's accounts.

Organize your own tournaments, make your own formats and banlists, play in your living room.

Hell, play with proxies. Literally why not?

If you want to play High Tide, rip a piece of paper into a square and write "High Tide" on it. You don't need the actual cards. You don't need anyone's permission.

Stop searching for a master.

>>44810198
>If you want to play High Tide, rip a piece of paper into a square and write "High Tide" on it. You don't need the actual cards. You don't need anyone's permission
why would you proxy a $0.50 common with radical fucking art?

>>44808312

wtf is this meme about "interactive decks" ? and how is combo supposed to be more interactive? oh whoa dude this guy is amassing cards in his hand, playing nothing on the field, literally nothing I can interact with, with zero feedback about whether or not I'm winning.

people complain about how uninteractive creatures on curve is, but every deck is mindless and autopiloted once you've memorized your win conditions.

there is no such thing as an interactive magic the gathering deck unless it relies on true RNG about which you have to make decisions that you haven't memorized by rote.

>>44810235
>there is no such thing as an interactive magic the gathering deck unless it relies on true RNG about which you have to make decisions that you haven't memorized by rote.
So turbofog is the only interactive magic deck?

>>44810217
why would you pay any amount for something which can be had for free?

>>44810198
>>44810256
Not everyone has a large group of friends to host their own tournaments, and playing in large events is fun. I proxy everything when I play EDH at home with my boyfriend, but finding a game of EDH with strangers is pretty hard as a lot of them seem to think that since they spent hundreds of dollars on a casual format then everyone else should have to as well or they won't play with them.

>>44810245

Can you memorize your decision-trees with turbofog? If y, it's non-interactive. If n, it can be interactive.

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>>44810000
>having to (you) myself
>with quads
shiggy

prepare to get rekt faggots

>play clasms+landdestruction+8moons.dec
>never lose ever again

>>44810323
Bloodmoon being good against tron is a meme. Bloodmoon+A fast clock is great against tron, but a if you can't kill them fast they eventually draw out of it.

>>44810256
I can't have the look and feel of a magic card for free

>>44810235

removal, hand disruption, and countermagic are interactive. there is no memorized decision tree on how to apply them, you have to properly read your opponents. it's based on what their outs and what their wincons are. counterspells and hand disruption, in particular, are incredibly punishing because there is a very short frame of "game time" for you to make a decision and they lose utility with each spell that hits the board. interactivity is only a "meme" because wotc tries its hardest to hamstring it, by killing decks that can interact, or banning cards that allow interactive decks to succeed in their game plans.

>>44810275
>Can you memorize your decision-trees with turbofog?
I'm not sure what you mean
Turbofog's entire game plan is "don't get hit", it's entirely reactive

>>44809902
I can't believe that anyone is this stupid.

>>44810343
Nice proxies over basic lands feel basically the same in a sleeve. They don't look as nice, but paying more than $5 for a card to look pretty seems like a waste of money.

>>44810352
>it's based on what their outs and what their wincons are.

exactly. under any given circumstances, there is the statistically correct response that maximizes your win %.

"reading" your opponents (or not being able to read your opponents) just determines which part of your decision-tree you're on.

you always have finite options, most of which are indefensible and "bad," many of which are playable but not ideal, and few of which are statistically superior options. "learning how to pilot a deck" is a process of rote memorization concerning which plays are tenable in which situations. it may not feel like it, but you're mapping decision trees.

>>44810343

>what is imagination

>>44810397
The specific example was High Tide, a fifty cent common
>>44810408
Good for playing tabletop?

>>44810275
'Interactive' means a lot of things, it means literally interactive as in it has cards which directly impact the opponent's cards and it means more generally a deck that effects the way you play against it.
An uninteractive deck in this sense either makes the opponent ignore their deck, ignores the opponent's deck itself or both.
A deck like storm can be considered uninteractive because it generally (hatebears excepted) doesn't give a shit about any of the opponents creatures apart from their clock and thus it has less strategic complexity for matchups which are based around creatures compared to something like the mirror.
Conversely, a deck like jund can be considered uninteractive because acts practically as a non-entity and its elements (discard and removal) are extremely limited in the ways you can play around them and thus it has less strategic complexity because you don't so much as play around jund as you bash your head on its walls and hope its walls break before your head does.
Just because all deck's (and all matchups) decisions trees are hypothetically probabilistic solvable does not mean that all matchups are equally interesting or enjoyable. That would effectively be stating that because a riddle has an answer that it must be equally difficult from every other riddle, it does not follow.

>>44808941
Feeling good about my smallpox loam deck now.

>>44810422
for playing tabletop, you only need as much information as it takes both you and your fellow players to parse the information. for many magic players, that's merely the name of the "card" and some visual representation to keep track of numbers (of permanents or counters or whatever). that's all you really "need" to operate the game.

if you also like the fantasy atmosphere, you can bring that with your own imagination. or you can bring that with high quality proxies, or legit cards. but it's extraneous to the mechanics of play.

also, I highly doubt the point of that post was to get you to proxy just high tide and only high tide.

>>44810445
>also, I highly doubt the point of that post was to get you to proxy just high tide and only high tide.
my point was that they should have named a more expensive card than one a beggar can afford

>>44808991
Actually the Tron matchup is the best matchup ever for Storm.


2016 is the year of Storm

TWIN FAGS BLOWN

THE FUCK

OUT

FUCK ALL OF YOU

>>44810435
It's easier to identify art than to read sharpie on a card, and feels/looks cheap. I buy anything worth less than $10 because I'm lazy and I make fancy proxies/shitty counterfeits for everything else.

>01/15/16
>Normal day, sunny skies, Twin is legal

>01/16/16
>HOLY FUCK TWIN IS BANNED OH SHIT!

Took us by surprise during prerelease. Store owner had a Twin deck and was pissed as fuck.

>>44809835
I'm glad this guy is going to be the box topper from the new deck as I realize I have the majority of cards need for Jeskai control but a my own spin I'm going to jam Kiki-Jiki instead of Ojutai

>>44810435

>interesting or enjoyable
not quantifiable, therefore non-useful as criteria for determining whether quality "interactivity" is present in any communicable sense.

can we move from opinion to measurement? I don't mean that facetiously or with any level of sarcasm/irony/insult, and I am asking myself as sincerely as I am asking you.

What is piloting-difficulty, really? What is strategic complexity?

I'd say in this context, it just means that the decision-tree is vast and therefore takes longer to assimilate and recite.

While any given player is "learning" that deck, that player may experience interactivity a lot as they constantly encounter new decisions. If that's what's important to you, then sure, I take your point.

However, the deck itself is not more or less interactive--it always has solvable decisions, no matter how many decisions it has. Once you assimilate any deck's tree, you are no longer interacting--you're reciting.

I find aggro and burn decks to be the most enjoyable to play because they take efficient routes toward the simplest (debatable point on simplicity--this is my subjective opinion) win condition in many given formats, and have favorable matchups against many types of other decks. Though many see this type of play as "cancer," I'd argue it is the purest form of play.

>>44810509
He gets way better than now that twin is gone. He was basically unplayable before because you couldn't cast him without dying.

>>44810451

Why? To illustrate the point all you need is x cost difference where x is any positive number

>>44810256
yes but stop there. Lets just imagine the whole tournament people and fake cards so you can stay in your bed.

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SELL SELL SELL!

>>44810523
Giest still has issues against zombie fish and banana king, good thing grixis never puts up any results.

I'm confused to why they didn't just ban Exarch or something

Kinda sad to see twin go because it was one of the easiest matchups for my grixis control deck

>>44810528

I, unfortunately, don't have the imaginative capacity to create entire communities and play games of magic entirely in my head.

I do have the capacity to remember what a card does. And I think most people do as well.

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>>44810524
>Why?

>>44810540
exarch is not exactly a great creature without twin, and if they did that they would have to ban pestermite too.

Who will keep braindead decks like Burn and Infect in check now that Twin is gone? Is WOTC set on letting drooling tards dominate the game?

>>44810558

>my wincon takes more rectangles of cardstock to achieve then yours does, therefore i am very very smart and you are very very stupid

>>44810558
just play abzan chord. Infect and burn have no chance against that deck.

>>44810571
>I get asshurt on the internet because I can't handle decision trees and just want to see whether the top of my deck has enough cards with numbers on them

>>44810556
My reasoning is that Twin would be a lot worse off without Exarch. Having one of your only creatures being super vulnerable to bolt and everything else.

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>Twin is banned
TIME FOR FOLD INTO AETHER SHITBREWS CUNTS

>>44810572
>me play lands
>me cast Karn
>me control deck

ARE YOU READY FOR THE LEGENDARY TRON VS INFECT VS BURN VS JUND?

COMING SOON TO YOUR LGS

AND EVERYWHERE ELSE TOO

>>44810587
yes, chord decks are bad against tron, ok. you got me.

>>44808320
What's stopping a new group of people from coming together and calling themselves the Commander Rules Committee and making their own version of the Commander rules? Commander isn't a format controlled by WotC, so they really have no say it what's "official".

>>44810516
>not quantifiable
OK
>therefore non-useful as criteria for determining whether quality "interactivity" is present in any communicable sense.
I don't follow. You a positivist or something?
>can we move from opinion to measurement?
Sure, fine.
>it just means that the decision-tree is vast and therefore takes longer to assimilate and recite.
Not entirely, a puzzle's difficulty is not determined by the length of the solution, the winning strategy in FoF psychatog mirrors was to never counter the draw spells, this isn't a vast decision tree, but it was unintuitive enough to still largely increase difficulty.
>that player may experience interactivity a lot as they constantly encounter new decisions
Well, they don't experience interactivity, they experience fun due to strategic complexity which is a by-product of interactivity, but I take your point.
>However, the deck itself is not more or less interactive--it always has solvable decisions, no matter how many decisions it has
But I just argued why that doesn't make any sense. Where did you make this leap of logic? What is your definition of interactive if you disagree with mine?
>Once you assimilate any deck's tree, you are no longer interacting--you're reciting.
I don't know where you pulling this claim from. Interaction has relationship with interest and learning, but they're not the same thing.
>I'd argue it is the purest form of play.
But I don't care about purity, I care about interesting gameplay, as do most people who play the game.

>>44810602
The fact that if you go looking for people outside your circle of friends, you won't be able to find a game.

>>44810602
If you actually follow Sheldon and his rule goons rules and banlist, you're a retard. Make your own banlist for your LGS, you'll find it will make the format much healthier.

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SPLINTER TWATS BLOWN THE FUCK OUT

>>44808293
Pump creatures + 3 to the dome. Atarka's Command is amazing if you're swinging with a bunch of creatures. Which, look at that, is exactly what goblins do. Stopping lifegain is also a plus.

>>44810611
Why are there so many people in this thread who seem to despise twin, what deck do you faggots play.

>>44810581
>my cards have letters and symbols on them that essentially boil down to numbers, but because it took me an extra second to figure out what the number is i have a superiority complex

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>>44810626
soul sisters

>>44810608
>we've decided to ban Islands. They're just too overpowered
Oh boy am I glad that's the only LGS for miles!

>>44810402

it's not feasible to memorize every situation you could find yourself in with a deck that can interact. furthermore, a spell doesn't become uninteractive just because there is an optimal way to apply it.

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>tfw the most interactive deck in modern now is fucking Jund

ITT: Salty Twin players

Heartless Eldrazi is a very fun deck. I do not know if it's better than Tron, probably not, but it feels nice to pilot.

So Aaron Forscythe said on his Twitter that they will look at unbanning Ancestral Visions once they see the Twin-less meta breakdown after the PT and a couple months afterwards.

So maybe if we can wait 3 months we'll see Visions and SFM unbanned?

>>44810645
Eggs did nothing wrong!

>>44810645
>2016
>not playing molten loampox

>>44810669
But eggs punishes the pilot for trying to interact...

>>44810626
Burn.
I always see at least 4-5 Twin players at LGSes in my area

I am the only burn player that I know.

>>44810687
Don't worry, WOTC was looking out for us more challenged players, now we'll finally be able to win some games :)

>>44810626
i only play(ed) twin when i tourneyfag at IQs, etc.

otherwise i play delver and shitbrews because twin is boring to pilot after two years.

>>44810675
decklist me senpai

>the year is 2099
>WotC has finally banned all cards besides the cards in the popular 75 list of tron
>modern masters set renamed to Tron Masters
>thousands of people gather in the Colosseum to witness who can complete tron first

Can 8rack be played without bridges?

>>44810732
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Mountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

4 Bloodghast
1 Golgari Brownscale
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Vengeful Pharaoh

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lingering Souls
1 Murderous Cut
1 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
2 Terminate
2 Molten Vortex
3 Zombie Infestation

4 Ancient Grudge
3 Bojuka Bog
1 Deathmark
2 Golgari Brownscale
2 Raven's Crime
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Vengeful Pharaoh

>>44810748
>>modern masters set renamed to Tron Masters

You forgot something

>Tron Masters remains a limited print run set that doesn't actually lower card prices

>>44810603

I will agree that merely talking about the size of a decision-tree was a mischaracterization on my part. I take your point about FoF.

But it's rather beside the claim. Every legal deck in a specific format has a finite decision tree. That tree may larger, smaller, more or less intuitive than other decks in the format, but it exists nonetheless.

When people discuss the "interactivity" of a deck, they refer to the requirement that the pilot makes meaningful decisions. As you brought up previously, combo decks seemingly have many possible plays at any given stage. This is contrasted with aggro or burn decks, which seemingly have fewer decisions--ie just play the most damage that you can this turn.

However, this is array of possibility in the combo deck is merely a function of the pilot's unfamiliarity with the relevant decision-tree. There is almost always one statistically superior play. Just like there is in the burn deck. In any given context, there is one series of things you should be doing.

"Interactivity" just means that the player doesn't know what the current "correct" play is. It's not readily apparent, they have to "make a decision". They aren't completely sure what's going to happen. But once a player knows the correct play, they play the correct play lest they have some sort of forgetful or careless lapse. Therefore a studied player playing a combo deck familiar to them is playing by rote just as much as an aggro or burn player. It took the combo player longer to get to that rote playing, but so what? That's inefficiency for novelty's sake

The decision-making is a novelty. The play is solvable. Some decks just take longer to solve than others.

>I care about interesting gameplay
But you see, this is where we come to an impasse. Purity is interesting to me. Novel trees (whether novel in their size or any other factor) are less interesting to me. There are many players who feel the same. They play burn decks.

>>44810752
I run a build without mb bridges, 3 in side against abzan coco and other decks that just keep shitting out more value creatures than you can deal with. Anything that tries to win with 1 creature and gas just folds to Smallpox (Infect, Twin used to, against burn it's great as well since it's not so much lose 1 life but discard and sac a land to gain 6-8).
16 Swamps
4 Urborg
4 Mutavault
4 Raven's Crime
4 Wrench Mind
4 IoK
4 Smallpox
2 Thoughtseize
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
2 Dismember
2 Victim of Night
2 Funeral Charm
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Liliana of the Veil (play 4 if you can, budget issues for me)

Not playing Bridges also blanks their artifact hate g2/3 if you side out racks for tech.

>>44810771
>zen burn
>"as my lightning bolts diminish your life, so too do I diminish the paths of your decision tree that lead to your victory" - Sun Tzu, "Art of Burn"

>>44810785
>4 Urborg
>4 Mutavault
>4 IoK
>2 Thoughtseize
>3 Liliana of the Veil (play 4 if you can, budget issues for me)
I don't want to play the rack anymore
Or rather, my wallet doesn't

>>44810807
Duress and blackmail do a decent enough impression, especially now that Tron and non-creature decks will spike up. Necrogen Mists is a poor man's Lili but doesn't have the -2 or the dope ult (which you actually get to activate enough times for it to matter in the long run). Mutas and Urborgs are pretty much must for closing some grindy games but you can side in Pack Rats for beatings since your opponent will most likely side out all dedicated creature removal.

>>44810752
>Can a tier 3 deck be played without one of the most important cards in the deck
Hm

>>44810827
Oh well thank you

>tfw control is going to be in an even WORSE spot because every deck is going to be lel burn you or tron

>>44808162
>What card are you afraid of?
>#YOLO
>Oops, All Spells

Every fucking time.

>>44810771
>When people discuss the "interactivity" of a deck, they refer to the requirement that the pilot makes meaningful decisions.
I don't think that this is the case, I have explained what I think are the definitions of interactivity before so I won't do so again. Storm in modern is considered an uninteractive deck, but it is accepted that there are meaningful decisions for the burn pilot. Your definition is better suited to the term 'skill testing' or something similar.
>However, this is array of possibility in the combo deck is merely a function of the pilot's unfamiliarity with the relevant decision-tree.
"Merely" is incorrect, stating that it only a function of the player rather than of the player and the deck itself is an untenable position which you keep on trying to come back to. Decks are not the same, the way a person sees an object is dependent on the person, but it is sophistry to suggest it is not dependent on the object itself as well.
>"Interactivity" just means that the player doesn't know what the current "correct" play is.
>I don't know where you pulling this claim from. Interaction has relationship with interest and learning, but they're not the same thing.
Literally just copy pasted what I wrote earlier. I don't understand how your definition of 'interactive' is representative of any of its common uses.
>That's inefficiency for novelty's sake
...That's the entire point of a strategic game.
>Purity is interesting to me.
Justify its value. Decision-making is easily justified as both a training exercise and as a provider of freedom. Where is the value in purity?

>I play mono g stompy and people around me are getting btfo

feelsgoodman

>>44810914
>I have explained what I think are the definitions of interactivity before so I won't do so again

do me a favor and spell it out plainspeak one more time.

>but it is sophistry to suggest it is not dependent on the object itself as well.

I am not suggesting that. You are misreading me. Of course the deck is a factor. I plainly grapple with the relationship between deck and pilot.

>I don't understand how your definition of 'interactive' is representative of any of its common uses.

Because when people talk about a deck's level of interactivity they refer to whether or not it appears that the pilot (or opponent) has to make decisions.

This is the basis for almost all criticism against uninteractive decks that I have encountered. IE 'that deck is not interactive because the pilot does not have to make decisions. the pilot just plays creatures on curve and attacks.' or 'that deck is not interactive because the opponent cannot react to it and therefore cannot make decisions'.

>entire point of a strategic game
is to win.

>justify its value

decision-making exists in the learning stages of all decks in all formats. but once serious players know their decks and decision-trees, play occurs by rote.

therefore the 'art' of the game is in deck-assembly and repeated play. does your deck achieve victory quickly, simply, and a majority of the time when played against many other decks over an extended period?

I'd argue that beyond learning to play a deck, deck creation is actually where the important decision-making occurs. The play itself is just RNG and decision-tree routing.

>mfw I play standard
>mfw everyone tells me to play modern so you don't have to spend 500$ on a deck that rotates out
>mfw wizards bans whatever is good in modern
>mfw they pay $1000+ For a deck that'll get banned in a few months
Kek
Your format is now worse than standard, have you realized yet?

>>44811059
Twin wasn't banned for being good, it was banned because it was popular. Same as Pod

>>44807960
I woke up screaming to this shit this morning.
Jesus fucking christ. RIP Twin and Bloom.
All hail Tron

Why do people think Tron will take over when Twin was pretty much the only thing keeping Burn, Infect and various all-in Zoo builds in check?

>>44811191
i hope it does so i can play based skred

>>44811228
Blood moon does jack shit vs Tron 90% of the time though.

>>44811234
wew lad

>>44811049
>do me a favor and spell it out plainspeak one more time
An interactive deck is one that plays around the opponent and that the opponent can play around.
>I plainly grapple with the relationship between deck and pilot.
>"However, the deck itself is not more or less interactive--it always has solvable decisions, no matter how many decisions it has."
I do not see these statements are not contradictory.
>'that deck is not interactive because the pilot does not have to make decisions. the pilot just plays creatures on curve and attacks.' or 'that deck is not interactive because the opponent cannot react to it and therefore cannot make decisions'
>"Interactivity" just means that the player doesn't know what the current "correct" play is.
How do you not know the difference between an implication of a thing and that thing's definition? Just because people say 'A therefore B' doesn't mean they think A is B.
>is to win.
Bullshit, that doesn't make any sense. The goal of people playing a game=/=the point of the game itself.
>but once serious players know their decks and decision-trees
But this never happens for some matchups/decks, because they're more interesting than other ones.
>therefore the 'art' of the game is in deck-assembly and repeated play
First off, now you are implicitly valuing decision making, you are just valuing the decision making of decks above play in game. Both are hypothetically solvable.
Second, you are acting as if the deck building game and the 'in-game' game have a 0-sum relationship. There is a trade-off between them when encouraging social pressures but there isn't when making format limitations.
Third, that still doesn't justify 'purity' as a value it justifies effectiveness of a deck.
One of the aims of people who make the rules in a meta is to encourage the resting points of the meta to have interesting games. There is no reason why this goal contradicts the integrity of the 'meta-game'

>>44809312
>Goyf is 150-180.

Umm, goyf was a $120-150 card last time I checked. Not even Star of David Games sells them for that high anymore unless you're buying the ones from Future Sight. If it gets reprinted again in 2017 you can expect it to finally fall below $100.

>>44811909
>>44811909

New thread

>>44810752
Yes Tom ross won a small star city event with 8 rack without bridges. He doesn't think they're needed.

>>44811090
Pod was quite a bit different. It was a deck that could only get better as more creatures were added to the pool. And because of this was going to need exceedingly many creature bans or a pod ban.