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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html

>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata

>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf

>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index

Baal so hard Abaddon wanna smite me Edition
First heretics gotta scry me sub-edition
What's 50 regiments to an Astartes like me can you please remind me sub-sub-edition
>>
Claiming this thread for Commorragh.

>>44764579
I do in larger games sometimes, but you need Night Fighting for the effects and all it really grants is a 5+ cover save for Troops when they're embarked in Venoms that have 5++ saves anyway - obviously, zero benefit isn't worth losing ObSec over.

Even when I do run RSR, my only units in the detachment are Venoms (5++ anyway), Reavers (3+ jink anyway), Scourge (which admittedly could benefit from it if something would get through their 4+ armor), and Razorwings which are off the board anyway. Ultimately I prefer a CAD, but if the list I'm running calls for more than 3 fast attack slots (which is common), then I go RSR out of necessity.
>>
What did you guys use to practice your painting skills on?
>>
>>44764919
Well, what would you replace the Grotesquerie with, if you had to? Or, I suppose, what list would you run if you were disallowed grotesques, since that list seemed pretty centered about them.
>>
>>44765379
A thousand dollars.
>>
For the worst troop choice in the game.
>>
>>44765397
CAD

Succubus + Archite Glaive + Haywire Grenade: 100

3 Incubi + Klaivex: 90
Venom + Splinter Cannon: 65

5 Warriors + Blaster: 55
Venom + Splinter Cannon: 65
5 Warriors + Blaster: 55
Venom + Splinter Cannon: 65

6 Reavers + 2 Cluster Caltrops: 126
6 Reavers + 2 Cluster Caltrops: 126

Assault heavy list. Lots of AP2 and Rending. Succubus rides with Incubi.
>>
>>44765379
Space Marines, then the old Dark Eldar models back in the day.
>>
>>44765475
Hi, there, sweetie.
>>
>>44765483
Awesome, thanks! I'll say something in a general if I play, on the off chance you're around.
>>
>>44765379
Space marines and Beastmen, so practised both clean, dirty, flesh, fur, metal and rust.
>>
Is the Strategic Warlord Trait table the best to roll on? It gives a lot of widespread benefits to the army as a whole, rather than banking on a specific roll that will only affect your warlord anyway.
>>
>>44765475
At least keep the "in the top tier armies" part.

Or "in their codex". But competing with cheap infiltrating snipers or crisis suits isn't really fair, to be honest.
>>
>>44765566
100% depends on your codex. Remember, you don't roll until before you deploy your first unit, so if you deploy second, you can use your opponents's list and deployment to decide
>>
>>44765475
These guys are pretty bad right now, too.
>>
>>44765566
It's the most overall usefull for the most armies.

Tactical is mostly if you expect to need VP to win

Command are ok'ish but have a 12" bubble, so tend to overlap with strategic/personal

Personal tends to be shit most HQ have already

Faction specific is a mixed bag.
>>
>>44765690
At least they're WS BS 4 again. Changes every fucking edition. I feel like they're better than they were in 5th, at least.

Why're they bad now? Or are they just bad relative to other options?
>>
>>44765722
Meme.

They are marines with scout, lower price, a 4+ save and LS storm transport option instead of Rhino.
>>
>>44765722
It's a joke because Fire Warriors are one of the best troop choices in the game.
>>
>>44765762
>>44765765
Ahhh, okay. I haven't really run marines since I started back. Good they're getting a bit of sun.
>>
>>44765780
It's also because spoiled marinefags think they pay too much for 3+ saves and ignoring half the game's psychology.
>>
>>44765722
Dude, that's a Blood Angel scout- they are BS/ WS 3. I refuse to field anything but tacticals, raphen's DC, or Cassor at this point.
>>
>>44765804
I think chaos marines pay too much for a 3+ save
>>
>>44765832
They might be a bit better if you weren't forced to pay for a champion and could actually make better use of their lower price.

Probably not good, but it would help.
>>
>>44765845
but anon then how would their fun random challenge rules work?

consider the following though:

for all the moaning people do about chosen, they get their champion for free. In that regard, small units of chosen are actually a good value.

>+1 A
>+1 Ld on non champion models
>CCW in addition to bolter (a 2 point value)
>better access to wargear

if you factor in the 2 points per model for the CCWs and 10 points saved from the champion tax, you are paying like 1 point per marine more than regular chaos marines.

Chaos terminators also pay a greatly reduced price for their champion (only 2 more points than the cost of the three terminators as opposed to the 10 points than CSM, Cultists, Havocs, and others must pay)
>>
Necron question
What's the best ways and units to use to take down a Wraith Knight? I'm thinking a lot of heavy destroyers to start but I'm drawing a blank after that.
>>
So for Kabalite Warriors, is there any purpose in taking a dark lance, or should i take a blaster in its place? i love the way the model looks but the heavy weapon thing is putting me off it somewhat
>>
>>44765973
just decline the game when the wraith knight, knight, riptide, dreadknight, stormsurge, or ghostkeel comes out of the bag
>>
>>44765967
I think all the codexes need across the board leveling. Just a bit of standardization across how good you do your good thing. 'Cause Tau do their good thing super good. Orks don't do their good thing so good, by comparison.
>>
>>44766051
ork players keep buying orks even though they were bad

if tau got nerfed tau players would whine and whine until they got their way

so there is no incentive for Warhammer ("that's what we call Games Workshop®"™) to make orks, chaos marines, or tyranids any better because the plastic keeps moving anyway
>>
>>44766089
Yeah, and there was no incentive to do a massive patch on brawl that introduced wave dashing and overhauled balance.

but someone did it.
>>
>>44766015
Actually Imperial Knights or anything with an AV doesn't bother me but the GC shit is just annoying. Would Deathmarks work with their 2+ to wound after deep strike? Or would I get shit for trying this?
>>
>>44766000
Avoid heavy weapons on Warrior squads. If you really want to hide in a ruin and pretend you're Devestators, you could do Lances on Trueborn or something. Still, not really the way the army plays.

Another way to do it with a Blaster Archon - give him a Webway Portal, deepstrike him in a Raider with Trueborn - 4 Blasters and 2 Dark Lances. Give the Raider Nightshields. The two lances will be snapfiring the turn they come in, but that'll be a bunch of darklight shots coming and it's arguably better than just having one guy in the squad jacking off with a splinter rifle hoping to catch bullets.
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>>44766128
He thinks dreadknights are worth dropping games over, ignore him. That said, ive seen rulings on either side for Deathmarks, either talk to your opponent, GW or any tourney organiser about it
>>
>>44765379
The models that came included with 'Battles in Middle Earth Magazine' when I was about 12 years old.
>>
>>44766015
>decline the most interesting games
>>
>>44766051
How about this, tiered handicapped games? So if you go Eldar, Tau, or Necron, there would be no handicapping or very little. In comparison, Eldar vs CSM would have chaos have a 1/3 bonus in points and have the ability to choose the scenario and whether to go first or second. And I might even make the CE Eldar player setup first. I still think the Eldar guy will win but at least it would be more fair. What you think /tg/?
>>
>>44766336
That's a stop gap solution, but a good one.
>>
General noob question;

What is considered 'standard' points tier for battles near you?
500? 1000? 1500? 1650? 1850? 3000?
Which do you enjoy playing most? Small skirmish or full scale apocalypse level games?
>>
I need a necron and dark angel anyone have a pdf for either?
>>
>>44766435
Around 1000 points I'd say. It's small enough that people aren't bringing a bunch of ridiculous stuff, but it's large enough that you have some variety in list-building.
>>
>Leman Russ is the worst primarch
>Ultramarines are the best chapter
>Tau are glorious good guys
>Eldar are more Japanese that Tau
>Matt Ward was a good writer
>Newcrons are better than Oldcrons
>Abbaddon is a success
>Imperial Guard is useless
>Be'Lakor is stronger than the Chaos Gods
>Lorgar is the best traitor primarch
>Black Templars worship the Emperor as a God
>Dark Angels are closeted traitors
>Orks are just useless backdrop villains
>>
>>44766454
Easily can fit two riptides and bunch of crisis and ml support in 1000 pts list.
>>
How bad of an idea is 7 Incubi and a Succubus with WWP, coming down in a raider with nightshields? it seems like it would be a nasty thing to deal with, but totally fucked if the raider drops
>>
>>44766089

>ork players keep buying orks even though they were bad

I'm not so sure about that. I'm an Ork player and threre's only one other guy at my FLGS who does Orks. I haven't bought much since the 7th ed release, at least not from GW.

And that may be the kicker. If we look at the 3rd party market, Orks may be the range with the largest number of knock-offs. In some ways it was a self-fullfilling prophesy; GW neglected Orks for years so other companies stepped in to take advantage of a market that was crying out to be filled. In the same way, "Totally Not Sisters Of Battle" are getting more and more common too via precisely the same process.

GW may very well look at those thriving third-party sites and conclude that doing anything for the players of those factions is a very distant priority. This may also go some way to explaining why GW aren't doing a CSM update until 2017; Chaos parts are expanding rapidly too.

Tau, Eldar, Necrons, and even Imperials by contrast are much rarer.
>>
>>44766253
dreadknights aren't that bad, but the players who field them are
>>
>>44766540
wow, blanket statements again. Even ET was better.Don't you have something better to do?
>>
>>44765517
aren't they even good at close combat?
>>
>>44765379
Tau drones, spare parts
>>
>>44766513
You know what else is easy? Not playing against people who decide to bring two Riptides to a 1000 point game.
>>
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Anyone know a good way to skitarii decals? Specifically, I need red detailing like cogs, emblems, etc. I'm doing the legio metallica scheme (pic related) and it's white with red details, which means I'm not getting many useful decals from the bog standard sheet in the ranger/vanguard box.

I did buy 3 of the "getting started" boxes, do those come with better decals at least?

Also, since I'll have 3 Dominus, 6 ranger/vanguard squads, and 3 onagers, I'm thinking of getting a box of Infiltrators next. Their rules look awesome and the models are sick, so I figured they'd be fun to try. Other than that, what could I even really get? I guess a few of the servitor guys?
>>
>>44766540
>having any kind of issues killing GK lists that sink that many points into a 4-wound MC.
come on anon, be honest with yourself, its S6 T6 W4 and the best thing it has is the 2+ save. you don't have to throw that much at one to kill it.

as for killing GCs: volume of medium-strength fire. the saves on glaive WKs are pretty good, but if you saturate them with enough S5/6/7 shooting they will fail saves.

for necrons specifically: codex trumps BRB, so if your deathmarks wound on 2+ (and it specifically calls out the roll value required, not a +2 to wound) than it should work and is a decent solution. try to have a backup though, even if its just a tarpit. [this is the same reason/ruling for why kharn still hits invisible shit on 2s. invis is considered BRB, kharn is codex]
>>
>>44766583
the chicken walkers with the lances always looked super cool
>>
>>44766569
Had a guy force 3 into a 750 point list. He stopped having fun about 3 turns in when two died to force weapons, and his minimum strength fire warrior squads were dead.
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>>44766435
I like 1000 to 1500 points. Anything longer begins to bore me.
>>
>>44766599
you seem to have missed the point

is isn't that dread knights are particularly great, though they are better than anything my army can field, it is that they players who play grey knights (in my experience) are assholes and I don't like to play against them
>>
>>44766609
>The orks had always been a threat. The Lord High Admiral’s fleets were engaged in actions on the frontier space of the Imperium, defending worlds and trade routes from junkers, freebooting greenskins and upstart warlords declaring wars from warp-spewed space hulks. Indeed, beyond being dropped into such internecine border wars with the greenskins, Verreault– the new Lord Commander Militant of the Astra Militarum– had inherited the Emperor’s bastion amongst the stars only to find it already thoroughly committed to crusades and long-standing strategic engagements. Q’orl Swarmhood expansions. A Segmentum Solar-grazing hrud migration. Expeditionary fleets from the Nadirax Republic. Coreward appearances of the aggressive Biel-Tan craftworld. Carnivorous trans-plants mounting seed-invasions of Imperial systems surrounding the Nepenthis death world. Tarellian mercenary movements in the Phidas sector. The Kindred. The Xerontian Similisworn. The horrific resurgence of the Ubergast. Data continued to flood in from the various theatres and while Abel Verreault was eager that all threats received due attention, troops and materiel, response times were glacial. The Lord Commander Militant was often working with reports that were months out of date.

-The Beast Arise Book 2 "Predator, Prey"

Look at all the xenos threats in 32K.

What happened to them? The Trans-plant xenos seem interesting
>>
>>44766514
There aren't a huge amount targets a Raider full of Incubi could kill that a Venom full of them couldn't. Keep in mind you don't want to win combat on your turn, but your opponent's so that you avoid getting shot at on their turn - meaning, 2 rounds of combat. Plus, Rampage makes Klaivexes really good - you want as many of those as possible.

Each Incubus charges in with 3 attacks. Assuming you're fighting MEQ, that'll be 2 hits, 1 wound, one kill. The Succubus with Glaive charges in with 5 attacks (always two-hand it unless you wound on 2s anyway) - 10/3 hits, 5/3 kills. That means a Venomload will wipe a combat squad of Marines in 1 turn, or take two - exactly how many you want - to chew through a full squad of 10.

Just take them in the Venom, push them up 12", shoot, and disembark and charge turn 2. If your opponent deploys to avoid Turn 2 charges, you can forgo shooting and turboboost instead - you'll still make the charge on turn 2 after the Venom pushes up 30" on turn 1. Plus because of how small Venoms are, you'll barely ever mishap so you could even skip on the WWP if you've decided you want to go the Deep Strike route. Based on your meta the Raider is good if you push up the board though - whether 4+ (or 3+) cover with 3HP or 5++ with 2HP is better varies.
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>>44766624
>trans-plant xenos
>I'm a fern stuck in a woman's body!
I think that's enough /tg/ for me tonight
>>
>>44766639

>My preferred pronouns are frond and furl.
>>
>>44766621
Really? GK players in my area are pretty chill. Usually take pretty fluffy lists actually.
>>
>>44766624
Hrud!
Come on you know you want space skaven.
Mid tier high-tech shooting and abysmal in melee, like Tau, hordes of terrible armor saves, like Orks.
>>
>>44766624
>What happened to them?

get purged cunts
>>
>‘In many alien space-faring species, as well as our own,’ Urquidex told him, ‘such structures– dealing with inspiration, experimentation and technological development– occur in the frontal lobes.’ Urquidex passed the dot across a comparatively redundant part of the creature’s brain. ‘Or the xenos equivalent thereof. In a race who have taken that crucial and technologically demanding step into a larger universe, you would expect this to be an area of recent evolutionary development.’

>‘Agreed.’

>‘Not so in Veridi giganticus,’ the magos biologis said. ‘It occurs in one of the most primitive parts of the organ.’

>‘But what does that mean?’ Van Auken asked.

>‘It means that their technological mastery, being what it is, proceeds not from evolutionary, intellectual development as it has in humans and many other races. It has been a feature of their race from very early in their existence.’

>‘An accelerated development?’ Van Auken hoped so. Acceleration could be modelled. Acceleration could be predicted.

>‘No,’ Urquidex told him. ‘Something primordial. A capability innate within their species. Their mastery of technology– including the gravitational and vector capabilities that you would wish to reproduce– is a natural ability. Not a product of some form of developed, higher order conception.’

--The Beast Arise Book 2 "Predator, Prey"

Orks confirmed to have knowledge programmed into their genes.

But the question is...by who?!
>>
>>44766915
The Old Ones. Y'know? The ones who genetically engineered them for warfare?
>>
>‘Have you learned anything else?’ Van Auken asked.

>Urquidex turned and snapped on a hololithic projector that enveloped the monstrous brain in a fluxing field representation.

>‘What is that?’ the artisan asked.

>‘Honestly?’ the magos said, ‘I don’t know. I happened upon the frequency by accident. This is the barest manifestation of it, I can tell you that. It has been fading since biological cessation.’

>‘If you had to make an informed guess, magos?’

>‘Some kind of field or emanation,’ Urquidex said. ‘It seems to be coming from deep within the brain structure– again, an evolutionarily ancient feature.’

>‘Could it be psionic in nature?’ Van Auken asked cautiously.

>‘Unknown,’ Urquidex said with equal reservation, ‘not my area of specialisation. However, watch this.’

>Urquidex directed a pair of servitors into the foil tent. Between them they carried an alien weapon: some kind of barbaric chopping implement sporting a chain of revolving teeth like a chainsword. A brute motor was built into its ungainly shaft, the handle of which was scored with primitive glyphs and graffiti. The magos directed the drones to slip the savage weapon into the beast’s death-stiffened grip, and lay the great shaft of the weapon and its murderous headpiece across the greenskin’s open and organ-excavated chest.

>‘What are you doing?’ Van Auken asked, as Urquidex directed a servomat to attach power couplings to the weapon’s monstrous motor. ‘Magos?’

>‘Clear…’ Urquidex said, before instructing the servomat to supply power to the weapon from its own core.
>>
>>44766915
The Old Ones.
That's always been the case.
>>
>>44766915
creed
>>
>>44766948
>The serrated chain of the chopper roared to life, the clunky machinery of its motor squealing and crunching, the gore of the Emperor’s Angels spraying Van Auken from the monstrous weapon’s thrashing teeth. The artisan stepped back and wiped the speckles of old blood from his face.

>‘Turn it off,’ he commanded.

>‘As you wish,’ Urquidex said, selecting an autopsy cleaver with a monomolecular edge from a rack of similarly macabre tools. Swinging the cleaver down with force, the magos chopped at the hulking wrist of the greenskin. It took a number of strikes, with the cleaver-blade biting through flesh and bone. With a final strike the claw-hand was separated from the meat of the arm– and the weapon chugged, bucked and died. Van Auken stepped back towards the creature with fresh interest.

>‘It still has power?’

>‘The problem isn’t power,’ Urquidex assured the artisan-primus. ‘The weapon has suffered a malfunction, which isn’t surprising given the poor quality of its construction and maintenance. I fear that this field– swiftly depleting and dissipating after death– in some way aids the crude workings of such creations.’

--The Beast Arise Book 2 "Predator, Prey"

The Ork brains emit some sort of energy signal that aids their crude tools and machines to work.

Do we have a name for this...effect?
>>
>>44766969
The Force.
>>
>‘There is something else,’ Urquidex said, shaking Van Auken from his machinations.

>‘Proceed,’ the artisan trajectorae encouraged, eager for more revelations.

>‘I have gene-typed the creature and a sample of its kind,’ the Magos Biologis said, ‘and cross-referenced our findings with the data-vaults aboard the Subservius.’

>‘And what did you discover?’ Van Auken urged.

>‘They all have the same origin, genetically speaking,’ Urquidex said. ‘With some more work, we should be able to narrow it down to a particular area of the galaxy. Perhaps even a single world.’

-The Beast Arise Book 2 "Predator, Prey"

The Ork homeworld stands to be revealed.

Perhaps we can find the secrets of the Orks there and a find a way to destroy them once and for all.
>>
>>44766998

> admech discovers ork homeworld, makes contact with ork primogenitor

> Ork Primogenitor accuses them of mukkin' about and kills them all

> Still better than Prometheus
>>
>>44766998
why destroy them? orks were made for fighting

in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war

orks are perfect for the galaxy as it is. They revel in battle without the political trappings of war, without the causes of a revolution, and without the righteousness of a crusade. They fight because that is who they are.

In our own way we aren't so different. War has always been with us. Underneath all the dressings and paperwork is a campaign really so different from a Waaagh?
>>
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>Playing nids against mechanicus
>Two flyrants fly up to the gunline and paroxysm the grav kataphrons
>Uses some special rule to raise his BS by fucking 3 army wide(!)
>Flyrants both die to one round of shooting, despite jinking
>Managed to get Stonecrusher out of toxicrene next to dunecrawler squadron
>Gets shot to death by basic infantry and the squadron before it can charge

Jesus tits
>>
>>44766624
> The puniest of the Beast’s monsters were small mountains of muscle, standing snaggle-jaw and shoulder over other orks. Striding through the mobs and madness were greater beasts still: towers of tusk, green flesh and ferocity. Like gargants or giant effigies of greenskin gods brought to life, these hulks carried colossal weapons that demolished buildings at a single strike and monstrous guns that mangled infantry and tank formations

Old Orks confirmed for MC size.
With that in mind the Beast that "loomed above Nobs as an adult among small children" could easily be the size of a small titan.
>>
>>44767086
>Running two flyrants

No sympathy.
>>
>>44767086
tyranid, ork, and chaos players shouldn't be allowed to play against other armies

think about it for a moment; that mechanicus player could have instead played a fun and challenging game against some space marines or necrons, but instead you made him waste a bunch of time smashing your army to pieces
>>
>>44767117
Tier 1 (limited only to tier 1): Tau, Eldar, Necrons, Ad Mech.

Tier 2 (can jump between both): Imperial Guard and friends, Space Marines

Tier 3 (limited to tier 3): Dark Eldar, Chaos Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks, Sisters of Battle.
>>
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>>44766559
No. Wyches die in droves to overwatch, as their 4++ only works in assault, and purple spandex armor saves almost never come into effect. You'd think that after that, they'd tear the enemy apart, but you'd be wrong as S3 attacks don't wound very often and any hit on their T3 that gets through the 4++ kills. They're only ever effective against things that can be wounded by S3 and has a low amount of attacks. So really just TH/SS Termies, and even against them, it's only worth it because TH/SS Termies cost the same as 3 full units of Wyches (Which is what it will require to kill them). They even crumple to other tarpits because they're perhaps the worst at their intended role.

TLDR: Wyches are trash, and even though I have 40 models and want to, I never run them because it's just shooting myself in the foot with an army that already struggles enough against most opponents.
>>
>>44767152
Deldars should be tier 2.
>>
>>44767152
sisters are much better than the rest of their tier. I've seen players do well with an allied detachment of sisters for cheaper bolter and multi-melta. As a core army they do very poorly though.

Here is how I would rank the armies:

>May only play at same tier, one above, or one below

>Tier 1
Eldar

>Tier 2
Tau, Necrons, AdMech, Space Marines (vanilla, space wolves)

>Tier 3
Space Marines (dark angels, grey knights), Astra Militarum, Inquisition, Chaos Daemons, Allied Tempestus, Allied Sororitas, Chaos Space Marine (just one space marine, the rest cutltists, daemons, and heldrakes)

>Tier 4
Dark Eldar, Space Marines: Blood Angels, Core Tempestus, Core Sororitas, Khorne Daemonkin, Harlequins

>Tier 5
Chaos Space Marines, Orks, Tyranids
>>
Rate my list please! Not super tryhard optimised, but any criticism is welcome.
This is for a themed Skitarii + Forge World Auxiliaries 1500pt list I'm planning;

Primary Detachment – Skitarii Manipule:
+ Skitarii Vanguard: 55pts
- 1 Alpha
- 4 Vanguards
+ Skitarii Rangers 65pts
- 1 Alpha
- 4 Rangers
+ 5 Rangers 55pts

Formation - SICARIAN KILLCLADE:
3X + Sicarian Ruststalkers 160pts
- 1 Princeps
- 4 Ruststalkers
+ Sicarian Infiltrators 185pts
- 1 Princeps
+ Refractor Field 5pts
- 4 Infiltrators

+ Onager Dunecrawler 90pts
+ Cognis Heavy Stubber 5pts
+ Smoke Launchers 5pts

Secondary Allied Detachment – Battle Forge Auxilia:
+ Tank Commander 30pts
+ Leman Russ Executioner 155pts
+ Leman Russ Eradicator 120pts
+ Enginseer 40pts
+ Servitor 10pts

+ Platoon Command Squad 30pts
- 1 Commander
- 4 Guardsmen
2X + Infantry Squad 50pts
- 1 Sergeant
- 9 Guardsmen

+ Militarum Tempestus Scions 70pts
- 1 Tempestor
- 4 Scions
>>
>>44767262
Throw this filthy meatbags and take more scions or skitarii.
>>
>>44767262
you could format it a little better

I like to put the point values on the left and have the upgrades and options be comma separated rather than vertically listed
>>
>>44767086
>Gets some special rule that raises his BS by 3 army wide

There's a tradeoff for it, we have to take -2 WS for it.

Granted, we don't really give a shit when we go full gunline, but it can be pretty bad.

Also, he can only do BS +3 once a game, BS +2 once, and BS +1 once
>>
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>>44766915
>>44766948
>>44766969
>>44766998
>Posting all this like it's some new revelation.

All the answers to your questions and more should have been presented to you rather quickly if you're that far into fluff, unless you've been purposely avoiding Ork content.

They were made by the Old Ones. They programmed innate technological ability into the Orks. They have this thing called the WAAAGH!! field, because they're all minor psykers, which helps to power both themselves and their reality-defying weaponry/vehicles.

Like, fuck son. Even the Orks know this about the Orks, why even bother?
>>
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>>44767231
No. They really shouldn't.

DEldar can compete against that guy's T3 and even T2 if run correctly, but only a drooling retard from T1 would lose to DEldar.

I fucking wish DEldar was T2, and might have been if our update hadn't completely gutted our HQ section. R.I.P. Duke.
>>
>>44765379
A more practical and modern answer would be Reaper Bones minis. They're really cheap and come in a rainbow of varieties. Detail isn't as great, but that'll just make you appreciate the GW minis when you switch over to painting those.
>>
>>44767292
Not that guy, but you know, and stay with me here, most armies can't even do that once per game.
>>
>>44767374
Oh yeah, I know, was just trying to explain to him how it works so he could be prepared next time.

It's kind of offset by the fact that as far as I'm aware, only the skitarii side can pull that, which means squishy little 10 man infantry squads, onager walkers, and... yeah. Nobody really uses the chickenwalker gun platforms and if your infiltrators are shooting something has gone horribly wrong.
>>
>>44767292
That buff is still crack on pancakes, man. No one brings much assault anymore and it doesn't even matter if they did, since BS 1 + 3 is BS4 Overwatch.

Don't try to justify being an OP codex. Your reasons for picking it are your own, I don't judge. Just shut up and thank GW as you drink the tears of us who chose lesser armies.
>>
>>44767245
This isn't 6th edition anymore. Tau have the edge against Eldar.
>>
>>44767399
Except no matter how much BS you add, overwatch is still gonna be BS 1. Only way admech can get around that is cognis, which just lets you hit on 5's, instead of just 6's. And it isn't on very many weapons. The +3 BS thing doesn't help him in overwatch at all.

If you're gonna complain please at least get the rules right on that.
>>
>>44767417
Does it actually say it only works in the shooting or doesn't work in overwatch, because in principle you're wrong about that.

Take for instance Tau markerlights, they increase BS in overwatch.
>>
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>>44767374
>tfw I can't do it with tau
>tfw everyone think my army is op but not admech
>>
all this complaining about balance and Knights and Eldar makes me not want to pick up this game :(
>>
>>44767086
>>Uses some special rule to raise his BS by fucking 3 army wide(!)

But this doesn't matter, because shooting at a Flying Monstrous Creature forces snap shots. His units could have been BS10 and he would still have needed 6's to hit. Doctrina Imperatives increase or decrease your base statline, they don't function as a modifier to the roll.
>>
>>44767459
Didnt matter that they snapshot

Still killed both flyrants with snapshot grav
>>
>>44767441
The rules text is:
>Until the start of your next turn, all models in friendly units with the Doctrina Imperatives special rule add 3 to their Ballistic Skill characteristic, but subtract 2 from their Weapon Skill characteristic.

You're adding to the statline, not the roll. Snap shots ignore the statline and roll as if BS1 (2 if cognis).
>>
>>44767444
if you could do it with Tau, then you one would ever play against Tau again. Skitarii don't have MCs or Superheavies, or anything with more than 12 AV for that matter.
>>
>>44767441
Gonna quote it word for word here, we'll go with the BS 3 one since that's the main one we've been talking about

>Until the start of your next turn, all models in friendly units with the Doctrini Imperatives special rule add 3 to their Ballistic Skill characteristic, but subtract 2 from their weapon skill characteristic.

Now, as a skitarii guy I just assumed this meant your base profile goes to say, BS 7, but then overwatch just drops you back down to BS 1 anyways.

Then again, I'm not familiar with 7th that much so maybe you're right and skitarii can go full retard with that rule and have BS 4 overwatch.

Which is fucking ridiculous if true.

This game is just so broken sometimes I always just default to whatever version of the rule seems least bullshit whenever I do actually play people.
>>
>>44767478
Cult of Mechanicus has some MC's, actually.

Speaking of which, how are the Kastelan Robots? I see a lot of people mentioning and liking the Kataphron, but nobody talking about the Kastelan. Are they overpriced?
>>
>>44766599
Why does Codex trump Rulebook? Is that written anywhere specifically or just an idea that everybody nodded and agreed with? If it's not official then it's still up in the air desu
>>
How effective are a squad of full ion or airburst crisis?
>>
>>44767458
Don't pay much attention. We only argue about the extreme cases. Eldar are in them of themselves an extreme case. Knight spam rarely happens because they're expensive.

Just don't play again Eldar. Even Tau can even be debuffed to play the lower tier armies. Really it's not much of an issue if you take your local meta into account.

If the game was a bad as 40K generals make it out to be, there wouldn't be a 40K general.
>>
>>44767499
T7, 3+ and they have ap3 s6 heavy bolters

Theyre pretty fucking good
>>
>>44767245
You're gonna have to explain how Dark Eldar stand a better chance winning than CSM. Cause I've seen some pretty nasty CSM players.
>>
>>44767466
A unit of three Kataphron Destroyers with Grav-cannons kicks out 18 shots a turn. With snap shots, that breaks down to 3 hits, wounding on a 3+, so two wounds. Jink should save one.

Statistically, it would take eight units of three Destroyers to bring down two Jinking, Swooping Flyrants in one turn, assuming neither were finished off by grounding. The numbers can be tilted a bit in the Admech's favour if they were using Canticles to let them re-roll some/all of their misses, but either way, statistically both Flyrants shouldn't have gone down. Don't call a Codex overpowered just because you had a run of horrendous luck.
>>
>>44767499
Cult Mechanicus does not have the +3 BS stuff, they get thier own rules. the Kastellan robots are wonderfully ressiliant though, especially since one of thier stances given them FNP
>>
>>44767518
They won't get their torsos ripped out by Necron Wraith whip coils, at least.

I can still his screams
>>
>>44767478
I don't use even xv8's anyway.
>>
>>44767466
if it had been the Ikarus cannons on the Dudecrawler, then fine. those are fucking awesome, but even 3 of them wouldn't be enough to take down two flyrants a turn
>>
>>44767278
I'd love to. The only reason the un-upgraded guardsmen are included is to earn the core rulebooks 'Allied Detachment' special rules so the army can actually contest things a little better. Without them it's just a lot of nice guns and swords but no real way to take and hold objectives as far as I can see.

>>44767286
Noted. Having the points on the left side does seem a bit more organised, I'll rework it for future lists I post. Thanks!
>>
>>44767545
STILL HEAR* Fucking edumacashun
>>
>>44767534
There were two full squads of grav kataphrons
HE used some rule to let her reroll ones, so he rolled about average and killed them both
>>
>>44767330
OBJECTIONS.

If the Orks were created by the Old Ones, then how come the Necrons only remember the Eldar? How come the Eldar don't have innate knowledge or energy field?
>>
>>44767476
>>44767496

But Tau markerlights simply state that the shooting unit simply gains +1BS as well.

>gain a bonus to their ballistic skill


Rules As Written, with precedence set by Tau markerlights, and your quotes entry specifically stating "until your next turn" that they get Overwatch at BS4.

They could have very easily said "until the end of your shooting phase", but they were explicit about saying until YOUR NEXT turn.

RAW and RAI support it working in overwatch.
>>
>>44767586
The Ballistic Skill of a model firing a Snap Shot can only be modified by special rules that
specifically state that they affect Snap Shots, along with any other restrictions (some may
only modify Ballistic Skill when firing Overwatch Snap Shots, for example). If a special
rule doesn’t specifically state that it affects Snap Shots, then the Snap Shot is resolved at
Ballistic Skill 1.

RAW a BS increase only affects snapshots if it specifically states that it does so
>>
>>44767534
The codexes is fucking overpowered.

units of cheap, durable grav cannons

units of cheap, extremely durable MCs with amazing shooting

One of the best tanks in the game at the moment with the onager

The fucking ridiculous tech priests

My opponent wasnt even phased. While we were playing he barely paid attention. I maneuvered my fucking heart out trying to slam into his gunline, and he just sat there and killed me at his leisure. Nothing in his army even moved the entire game, it didnt have to.

It could hit and kill something every single turn right from where it was. This is what separates strong codexes from weak ones.
>>
>>44767582
I believe it was the Brain-boyz who made the Orks before dying off to some genetic deformity beyond their ability to cure, not the Old Ones. But who made the Brain-boyz?
>>
>>44767586
>>44767612

page 32 of the small rule book is where that is from, under the snapfire section
>>
>>44767571
>There were two full squads of grav kataphrons

Kataphrons max out at twelve models in a squad. That means he invested 1320 points in two units, totalling twenty four Kataphrons, which is almost three times the cost of your Flyrants? Considering how many points were dumped into them, no, I'm not convinced they're overpowered. Especially since that army would have a crippling lack of reliable anti-infantry fire, because good luck killing Termagants with Grav-weapons.
>>
>>44767612
Is "until your next turn" explicit enough? No.

However there an amazing argument for RAI, because why in the hell would they have it work in the opposing player turn if that wasn't their intention.
>>
>>44767444
CC chaos player here.

You remove that "everyone can overwatch just because" thing and we have no real problem.

Well.. I won't make to your lines but atleast I'd not have to subtract four inches from the charge because of the front guys dying, ontop of the two inches you get from being in cover because no one has grenades anymore.
>>
>>44767639
>twelve models in a squad
What the fuck, there were just 3 per squad

what the fuck kind of army can buy 12 grav cannons in a squad.
>>
>>44767641
See, this is where RAI falls apart. I think that they intended it to not work on snapshots, but now we have two different interpretations, but neither interpretation is more valif than the other on a pure RAI basis.
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>>44767654
A D
M
E
C
H
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>>44767639
My nids are also only monstrous creatures.

His army was 100% suited to killing mine.
>>
>>44767619
The Onager is good-great but I wouldn't call it the best tank in the game. AV12 Front armor, that's a little above ork tier. It's weapons and upgrade options are where it shines, combined with techpriests and a 3 model unit of them can be pretty intimidating.

I agree with everything else you said though.
>>
>>44767641
>why in the hell would they have it work in the opposing player turn
Interceptor?
>>
>>44767647
No, I won't do this. Because I playing without any suit. Just fire warriors with devilfishes and hammerheads. Its already too hard.
>>
>>44767654
At 65 points per model. You can cram a lot of models into each squad, but they get very expensive, very quickly. And while they are T5, they only have a 4+ armour save, no Feel No Pain, and lack fearless on a Ld8 unit.

>>44767669
Then your opponent is a bit of an asshole for tailoring to such an extreme degree, but that doesn't mean the base Codex itself is overpowered. It's certainly more powerful than the Tyranid codex, but the Tyranid codex is an unplayable, bottom-of-the-barrel mess. The power discrepancy between the two books is an indictment of the Tyranid one, not the Admech codexes.

Caveat; the Admech formations which let them share special rules and get huge piles of free wargear are grotesquely broken, and I won't even try to defend them. They're awful.
>>
>>44767682
Do Ad Mech have access to that?
>>
>>44767701
Dunno, I don't play admech. Any admech players around?
>>
>>44767701
Yeah, the onager has a setup tailor made to hunt airborne units, it's called the aegis package or something.

Basically it's an aegis autocannon, missiles, and something else, I can't remember what. But yeah, that thing would definitely be able to intercept stuff in the opponent's phase.
>>
>>44767709
On a single gun available to a single unit. The Dunecrawler's Icarus Array is made up of three Skyfire weapons, one of which (a Twin-Linked Autocannon) has Interceptor.
>>
>>44767697
They are still tough as hell to get rid of, especially with a melee army trying to charge into cognis flamers
>>
>>44767518

18 S 7 AP 4 shots from 3 Crisis. Don't overcharge them unless you want ID your Crisis. The commander is the only one who can do it safely.
>>
>>44765765
Fire warriors have the same damage output a tactical have, with a subpar special rule (in a shooty edition, anyway). BS3 S5 has the same average wounds before saves that BS4 S4 does.

Fire warriors also don't have free chapter tactics that can give them rerolls or free rules out of nowhere, and are significantly more squishy than marines, for only a slightly lower cost. And no special gear options outside of a turret that requires they stand perfectly still.

Fire warriors are only good because higher Strength guns with great range becomes insane with proper support. Without that support, they are only decent, and the worst troop choice in the tau codex. The points spent on fire warriors could have been used to far greater effect elsewhere.
>>
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>>44767720
You're suspiciously civil for a tripfag
>>
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>>44767683
>Replying to a Chaos player
>As Tau
>"Its already too hard."
>>
>>44767756
Is that how Gets Hot works, I thought it was just a plain old wound.
>>
>>44766583

Look at the Cult Mechanicus section of the GW webstore, it has several different decal sheets available, Metallica being one of them. I have it, and it's pretty decent (not as good as the FW Raven Guard one I just got though)
>>
>>44767784

Oh. So it's just a wound that can be saved with the armour. I thought it was with the same S. This is more workable.
>>
>>44767747
Jesus just how tailored was he?

Sounds like he chose to play you specifically because his army was geared for 'nid extermination
>>
>>44767774
For me. I know, your games full of pain.
>>
>>44767761
Truth, from a foot infantry tau player. But then, why would you take anything other than MSU Strike teams if you aren't giving them support? Or as you say, just get others.

Bumping them up to BS5 and giving them a Fireblade is a fucking insane combo and low in points that can take down anything short of T8+ creatures. Can easily glance AV11 vehicles or flyers without Skyfire with that.
>>
>>44767800
yeah, it's just a regular wound with only armor and invulnerable saves allowed
>>
>>44767800
Yes. Never take Gets Hot! on infantry for this reason, it's just superior on vehicles because they can save it reliably.
>>
>>44766336
It's what Fantasy used to do, At least in Italy (land of tourneyfags)
>>
r8 h8 masturb8 m8s

Grey Knights CAD
165-Libby w/ ML3, Stormbolter, Domina Liber Daemonica
390-2xTermies w/psycannon, hammer
215-Dreadknight, Teleporter, Incinerator, Psycannon
290-2xInterceptors, hammer, Incinerator
180-Purifiers, 2xIncinerators, Hammer, Rhino
1240

Allied Armoured Battle Group
Company Command Tank-Leman Russ Vanquisher, Coaxial Heavy Stubber, Artificer Hull, Beast Hunter shells-210
Leman Russ Eradicator-160
Vulture Gunship-Twin-linked Punisher Gatling Cannon, Distinctive Paint Scheme pinup, of course-165
Hydra Flak Tank-75
610

32 models, 10+d6 warp charges. Not a NSF because the only things deepstriking are the termies, librarian and Vulture, and not much can easily shift terminators off an objective in the late game, when they should have hopefully wiped out anything low-ap, while anything that can Smash will get wiped out by then hopefully
>>
>>44767152
You're retarded, m88.

SoB are in the same tier as IG or better.
>>
>>44767412
Cute bait. Here's your (you)
>>
>>44767853
So they have the ability to go toe to toe with even toned down Necrons, Eldar and Tau?

No they don't. They might dominate T3, but they'll get fucked the second they step in the ring with a T1 opponent.

Guard however can play against a toned down tier 1 armies.
>>
>>44767862
It isn't bait. I've seen competitive Eldar lists and Teo DE/Eldar abuse get completely fucking wiped out by Tau without much issue at all.

Necrons give Tau more trouble than Eldar do. However Eldar straight up rape Decurion.
>>
>>44767797
>looked only at skitarii because that's what I had
>never even crossed my mind to check the cult page

God dammit gw just combine them already!
>>
So, are the Admech/Skitarii only in Red or can you paint them in any other scheme?
>>
>>44767631
The brain boyz are the old ones. They created the Krork, who were an unfinished progenitor race of warriors that could serve as fodder that was self propagating and self reliant from "birth". This orkses pop outta the ground knowing how to fight, and cobble together his own weapons. As he ages, more and more information percolates to the forefront and this is generally what leads some orks into specialization (meks and painboys).
>>
>>44767901
You can paint anthing the way you want to. Even in the fluff they have different schemes.
>>
>>44767880
>No you must buy two 'dexes for the same faction minion.
GW please.
>>
>>44767846
Anyone?
>>
>>44767697
People who play tyranids as the end all be all melee mobsters who hit your lives and win are stuck in 4th edition. Tyranids have a lot of incredible options, and if you are playing for objectives and your missions, you can easily win. I see so many new players forgo the incredible shooting options nids have also using massive sized squads. Two force org charts of small units dramatically overwhelms any army's abilty to slay you with ease as they are dedicating a full units shooting to eliminate small chump change units. This makes it easy for MCs to arrive in close combat relatively unmolested
>>
>>44767880

I knew it existed and went to look for it before responding to you, tried Skitarii 1st and couldn't see it, then thought to try CultMech, so yeah, I don't understand why it's not in 1 combined AdMech page, or listed in both (Space Marine models are repeated between Space Marines, BA, DA, SW, and GK afterall)
>>
>>44767880

Rumors say that they will be combined soon. They will also get their own flyer.
>>
>>44767697

I still remember managing to get my Gorkanaut into CC with a unit of Kataphron Breachers. I was running a Dread Mob and the game was going very poorly for me but I figured that here I'd be able to get some damage in.

Imagine my shock when they scratched the Walker down without taking a single wound.

I don't mind going against Admech generally but boy oh boy do they fuck over vehicles something hardcore.
>>
>>44767582

Because Orks weren't Orks then. They were Krork from whom Orks descended. We're descended from apes, but you wouldn't know it at a glance.
>>
>>44767955
Skitmech are brutal against low model count armies-Vehicle heavy, MC heavy, whatever. They're only decent against MSU or blobs, but they can build for that too, even without abusing War Convo
>>
Hey /tg/ I want to start up again. Went to local store yesterday and did a quick ork painting and a quick brush up on the rules. I also have some of my old models from Ork Chaos and Necron. Where should I go from here? I last played back when Apocalypse Reloaded was just out or around then.
Pic Semi Related
>>
>>44767934

Indeed, playing kill points against my brothers ultramarines my tyranids have suffered some humiliating losses. But for board control and claiming objectives he has a tough time against me, lictors, genestealers and a sporocyst all infiltrating onto objectives and a tervigon in a tyrannocyte deep striking and generating fresh troops. Actually decimated my wifes orks over the weekend, though after reading this thread I'm getting the vibe that beating orks isn't that big a deal
>>
>>44767901
>tfw want to do a heretek conversion admech army
>>
>>44768036
New CSM codex should have a few Heretek choices honestly
>>
>>44768045
No no no, we need an entirely new "Codex: Hereteks" with 10 units in it and a warlord trait table.
>>
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Attending a doubles tournament soon (750pts each, no Forgeworld or Super Heavies) using Dark Angels.

What's the best route to take at that points level? Ravenwing? CAD? Demi-company? I haven't played many games since the 7th ed codex came out. My doubles partner is going to be playing guard if that makes a difference.
>>
>>44768079
Blobguard or Mechguard?
>>
>>44768004
My current army lists from the models I can find currently from storage are

Orks: Warboss
About 6 Nobz
About 90 Boyz
a Trukk
3 Deffkopters

Chaos: Arahmin
Termi Lord
Abbadon the Useless
A box of unassembled Thousand Sons
About 50 Marines
About 15 Zerkers
a Squad of 5 Termis

Necron: Lord
Unassembled "Stormlord"? (Was a gift after I stopped playing)
2 Warrior Squads
3 Monoliths
a Spider
2 Wraiths

And a Baneblade

Also I know is Necrons became Egyptians. Eldar apparently are still Top tier like always.

Any Opinions on what to get which are to do what with are appreciated.
>>
>>44768079
>no super heavies
>GC's ist super heavy
:^)
>>
>>44768120
Run Necrons with 3 monoliths. No-one'll expect it, or know what to do against it.
>>
>>44768071
This guy knows what's up
>Release 2-3-4 versions of the same faction codex
>6 units + warlord trait table
>Instead of rolling it into one codex, immediately re-releasing that faction 'dex

It's getting a bit out of hand honestly
>>
>>44768079
I was always of the opinion that when you're playing with others in your team, you complement each other.

See what the guy is running and what he's lacking, what factors he's relying on to follow through with one of his tactics and vice versa. Then your list and your tactics should be built to help each other achieve those goals.

He's got a great unit that is vital for a tactic? Keep it alive by providing covering fire, pinning, break LoS to it or bring a Libby to give it buffs etc.
>>
>>44764062

Look, if you're going to include an anime schoolgirl in a guard regiment, she pretty much has to be a Psyker.

No way is a schola progenium graduate going to be that young.
>>
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Which Craftworld is better for a Farseer based on Sima Yi?
>>
>>44764718

What's the edition? I don't see an edition!
>>
>>44767203
I've found them to be useful cannon fodder. Usually I'll run them with Lelith in a Raider and let them go to town on anything shooty. Their 4++ makes them uniquely tough in the assault phase and you'll be throwing an absolutely stupid amount of dice on the charge, almost always at a higher initiative than the enemy. With a decent drug roll they can be a real pain in the ass too of course.
>>
>>44767203
>>44768484
They would be almost worth it if only they had one extra attack.
>>
>>44768498
I mean I still prefer them over Wracks.
>>
I find most, though not all, shit units could be fixed with one simple change to a stat or rule.

Make Pyrovores Beasts? Fast, cover hugging unit with three heavy flamers and low but not non-existent assault potential.

So with Wyches, what change to one rule or stat would fix 'em?
>>
>>44768520
2 attacks base.

Or idk, how about letting us buy combat drugs instead of FUCKING ROLLING FOR THEM
>>
>>44768520

Drop them to 2ppm, up max unit size to 60.


WYYYYYYYCCCCHHHH HHHHHOOOOOORRRRRDDDDEEEEEEEE
>>
>>44768520
Probably poisoned attacks. There's other changes I'd make but if I could only pick one thing for wyches that'd probably be it.
>>
>>44764718
Supose I wish to make a chaos terminator army. Would keeping to many min sized squads be the way to go?

I don't suppose there's any way to go all chaos terminators without unbound.
>>
>>44767517
Basic Versus Advanced
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They
include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules
for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a
special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability
to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader
or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike,
a swarm or even a tank). The advanced rules that apply to a unit are indicated
in its Army List Entry. Army List Entries can be found in a number of Games
Workshop publications, such as a Warhammer 40,000 codex.
Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override
any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a
model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that
model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does
not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence. On rare occasions,
a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex.
Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always
takes precedence.
>>
>>44768545

That's really dumb.

I love it. Up the transport capacity on their clown cars too to handle it. 60 Wyches spilling out of a single Raider into the enemy deployment zone.
>>
>>44768586

6 troop slots, that's 360 clown car Wyches.
>>
>swarmlord
>deathleaper's brood
>lots and lots and lots and lots of spore mines, rippers, tyrannocyte with Carnifex

This is pretty dumb I admit
>>
>>44767441
Marker lights are only good for the current phase. Most marker lights hit in the shooting phase but don't carry over to the assault phase. Assault phase requires a whole new set of marker lights fired on overwatch, thus snap shot, and so won't actually affect tau overwatch that much. It still does, but it isn't this game breaking mechanic that ends games like /tg/ says it does. And before anyone calls me a taufag, I play

>Orks

Gotta have every advantage when fighting them blueberries. however, my gf just bought me the new tau starter and FW/devilfish box for Christmas on the reasoning that it makes her sad seeing me lose game after game. She remembered my rants about tau being OP and just up and bought them for me. She just started collecting necrons. I love my life
>>
>>44768656
Your girlfriend sounds like a pretty cool guy.
>>
>>44768520
Pyrovores need torrent
>>
>>44767819
>4+ save
>superior to 3+ and 2+
>>
>>44768668

Beast achieves the same thing, but with more tactical flexibility.

Torrent and beast together would make them just short of an auto-take.
>>
>>44767582
>How come the Eldar don't have innate knowledge or energy field?

Different projects.
>>
>>44768718

Due to a formatting error, several units in the next Ork codex will have the rule "Get shot" which allows the enemy to make an additional shooting attack against them if they roll a 1 to hit with certain weapons.
>>
>>44768113
>>44768241
He's thinking of going with vets in chimmies and a vendetta or two, maybe scions as well. Think I'll probably go for the Lion's Blade formation and act as objective holder and defense while he flies around shooting other flyers and blowing things up from the sky.
>>
>>44768759

Eldar: Psychic artillery.

Orks: Survivor race, serving as brute millitary.
>>
>>44767672
Their shield when you have enough of them together makes them shit on melta and similar weapons that make even land raiders cry.
>>
Do eldars poop?
>>
>>44768781
Eldar: Slow but assured evolution into mastery of the warp, technology, complex society.

Ork: Dragons teeth.
>>
>>44768810

What either race does beyond being War in Heaven footsoldiers is pretty irrelevant.
>>
>>44768801
What do you think tau and ethereal are
>>
>>44768801
>Do eldars poop?
yes. their feces are Crystaline
>>
>>44768891
Good point.

Also, and this goes for most elfish races in general, how does age work with them? Like, are they mature around the 20 year mark like humans and just kinda top off there for the next 10 centuries or so, or are they like children for the first 200 years?
>>
>>44768821
That IS what they to in war, and hwo they accomplish it.

The Eldar are a slowly evolving society that fights with mastery at war, technology and psychics, as capable of war by inaction as by confrontation.

The Ork's can go from spores to planetary conquest in a decade but they will strip planets bare, leave gardens toxic swamps, drive species to extinction for sport and won't leaves anything of value, create no wonders.
>>
What's more important, a Shield Generator for a Commander or Disruptor Pod for a Hammerhead?
>>
>>44768916
Whichever you rely on more during a game.
>>
>>44768916

I'd say the Shield Generator.

It's also a good indicator of the "Haves versus Have-nots" amongst the Codexes when people are allowed to actually take invulnerable saves versus the books that don't.
>>
>>44766455
>>Leman Russ is the worst primarch
True

>>Ultramarines are the best chapter
Nah

>>Tau are glorious good guys
Nog good guys, but less evil than the others

>>Eldar are more Japanese that Tau
True

>>Matt Ward was a good writer
Meh

>>Newcrons are better than Oldcrons
Indeed

>>Abbaddon is a success
Sure thing

>>Imperial Guard is useless
No

>>Be'Lakor is stronger than the Chaos Gods
wat

>>Lorgar is the best traitor primarch
No, Magnus is

>>Black Templars worship the Emperor as a God
I think so?

>>Dark Angels are closeted traitors
They aren't

>>Orks are just useless backdrop villains
Ghazghkull wants a word with you
>>
1500 points dark eldar list: first time trying 7th edition codex

>archon with blaster and soul trap
>5 incubi inside of a venom with extra splinter cannon
>10 kabalites, splinter cannon, inside of a raider with splinter racks and night shield
>9 kabalites, blaster, inside of a raider with splinter racks and nightshield
>6 reavers, 2 with heat lances, 2 with cluster caltrops, arena champion with power sword
>10 hellions, helliarc
>5 scourges, 4 hawyre blasters
>5 scourges, 4 hawyre blasters
>ravager with 3 dark lances and night shield
>razorwing jetfighter with 2 dark lances, splinter cannon, night shield and 4 shatterfield missiles


TOTAL: 1498 points
so, I certainly fucked up something. hope hellions can actually do something because I like the models
didn't put much on the archon because... well, he's useless
>>
>>44768997

>Tau pay 25 points for a 4++ invul that works in CC
>Orks pay 50 points for a 6" 5++ invul that works only against shooting

I'm not even mad anymore.
Just... tired.

I did have someone tell me recently that Orks don't need/deserve CC invul saves since they're hard enough to kill as is.
That really got the sodium pumping through my veins I have to say.
>>
>>44769052
>10 hellions, helliarc
> hope
I'm so sorry anon, they're at best a tar pit unit, but even then they get stomped on by any form of dedicated melee. I'd invest in either more kabalites or getting another unit of reavers+ cluster caltrops
>>
>>44768916
I always get the iridium suit for the commander and have him tank anything with his 2+ and FnP. If anything is ap2 or Instant Death just look out sir! On a 2+ to a drone or something... Shield Generator is shit imo
>>
>>44769220
Yeah, I usually don't give him the invul. 2+ FnP is generally enough.
>>
>>44769081
I went back to my 4th edition codex today just to pretend for a second that I could give units an invulnerable save again... It made me smile.
>>
>>44769239
>>44769081
Put that mek in a Battlewagon, and watch that bubble grow. damn, I miss that codex
>>
Honestly don't think anything can be done at this point to make Orks competitive or at least good.

BS 2, I2, S3, 6+. It is just, quite literally, the worst stats for any model. And this is the template for every single ork model in our codex. Nothing can be done to improve this.
>>
How is the relationship between Nurgle and Khorne?
>>
>>44769337
Chaotic
>>
>>44768414
whatever uses the dynasty warriors color scheme for jin
>>
>>44769220

Farsight relics are kinda shit though. Pricey, don't do much.

Fusion Blades are good for a fun gimmick over outright usability,

ECPA Is good on riptides.

Which pretty much leaves the move through cover drone one.
>>
>>44768667

>this shouldn't have been as funny as it was.
>>
It's probably my meta but it seems like I'm the only ork player with more wins that losses.

My meta is full of tyranids, grey knights, space wolves, a few guard and eldar players.
>>
Hey /tg, I got my second ever apocalypse game coming up and I have a question regarding strategic assets:

If I take the webway portal asset, it allows me to move on my Dark Eldar units from the portal like it was a table edge - but what if I have a Shadowseer in my wytch squad? Since he is a harlequin model, is he not allowed to join them?

I bust want to protect my ladies with veil of tears or something, so they can make it into assault
>>
>>44769446
100% guarantee it is because your opponents field shit lists.

Post yours for comparison. Also no one denies that orks can get the occasional point "victory" but they can't do it consistently which is the problem. When was the last time you shot a unit and thought OK going to kill this, compare to, "hope my fucking bs2 hits"
>>
>>44766915
>Veridi giganticus
Big Greens?
>>
>>44769462
Probably, tell me what you think of this list. Mek guns are any of the 30 point variations I feel like using.

1500 orks

War boss 120
Bike, head choppa, squig

Weird boy 70
Lvl2

18 slugga boyz 198
Nob, shoota, big choppa
Armour

20 shoota boyz 168
Nob, tl shoota, big choppa
Big shoota big shoota

8 tank bustas 119
Nob
Bomb squig

3 mega nobz 130
Combi scorcha
Boss pole
Trukk

7 commandos 135
2 burnas
Nob, klaw

7 bikers 161
Nobs, klaw

Battle wagon 150
Killikannon
2 big shootas

7 lootas 102
Mek, kustom blasta

3 mek gunz 117
3 extra grotz
1 mek

1500 points
>>
>>44767958
>you wouldn't know it at a glance
Speak for yourself Mon'keigh
>>
>>44767901
Oh hell yeah you can; The red paint scheme just represents the biggest and main forgeworld of glorious Mars, and so is the posterboys for the faction. Plenty of ways to paint them mate.
>>44767950
Any source on this or what ?
>>44768079
>No Forgeworld
Wat
>>44768656
She's a keeper anon.
>>44768916
Generally, distruption pod for hammerhead.
Go with a shield drone if you need the invul save so badly + 1 extra wound to eat through for almost the same price.
>>
>>44769517
Killkannon means battlewaggon can only carry 12 models.
>>
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>>44769081
All my skitarii/admech characters can get 4++ for 5-10 points.
>feels good man :)
>>
>>44769462

With the exception of a few specific units, shooting is only something Orks do on the way there. It's an afterthought.

Honestly the real issues with Orks are that their combat ability isn't dialled up quite high enough and they have serious morale issues. Horde tactics they can pull off. Mobility they can pull off.

Not crumbling on the way or when they get there? Killing things right proppa? Those are the real issues.
>>
So let me get this straight.

Harlequins have no HQ, meaning they can't use that one detatchment that gives scoring units, meaning that for half the gametypes in 40k or anything requiring scoring units there's no way to field them as a self-contained army or it's basically a forfeit.

What a letdown. Those clowns are so cool.
>>
>>44769532
>She's a keeper anon

Of Secrets. Contact your local inquisitor immediately.
>>
>>44769538
I ust it for the 8 tank busters.
>>
>>44769554

Yep. Not only that, they also have a HQ character in the fluff they should have been able to take. And mimes as well.
>>
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>>44767586
>But Tau markerlights simply state that the shooting unit simply gains +1BS as wel

No, the markerlight rules specifically mention Overwatch and Snapshots.

Which is a required caveat as:>>44767612 points out.
>>
>>44769545
>Sick burn m8
No need to rub salt in their eyes anon
>>
>>44769563
Shhh don't let them know
Anon deserves to happy.

>yfw you play Inquisition with CSM Slaanesh allies
>>
>>44769614
>>yfw you play Inquisition with CSM Slaanesh allies

Nobody expects the Slaanesh Inquisition.
>>
>>44769554
To be fair Skitarii don't have an HQ choice either, so you will be taking allies for the sole purpose of having the ability to score/contest objectives.
Cult AdMech is currently 'counting' as a separate faction, rumored that they may get combined at some point. I hope so anyway seeing as lore-wise they are the same damn faction.
>>
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>>44769628
Well fuck... there went my drink all over my screen.
Thanks for making me laugh anon.

Have some of my friends literal yiff marines in return.
>>
>>44769337
They bro out over shedding blood to spread blood-borne diseases. Space hepatitis or whatever they've cooked up
>>
>>44769554
Everything in 7th ed is scoring. You just lose the easy allied detatchment (they tried to give us a replacement via the Cast of Players formation) and against objective secured units you can't contest.

This is not that big of a problem, because most faction specific detatchments/formations don't give objective secured. Big exceptiln are vanilla spacemarines. And if you face a generic CAD only the troop choices will be objective secured - against their other units you can claim/contest as usual.
>>
>>44769547
The issue is that you are never killing equal to or even comparably to what you are losing, and that is plain and simply because you are not hitting anything reliably in the shooting phase.

I mean take a Gorkanaut or a Stompa for instance, it is BS2. I highly doubt shooting that weapon is an after thought, same goes for models with Big Shootas, or Lootas, their whole appeal is that they see the benefit of having a noisy loud big barreled gun, so no way in hell they're going to be roughly aiming. It just doesn't make sense.

Tankbustas have assault 1 on a BS2? Again, it doesn't make sense. A mounted gun on a battlewagon being shot has the same accuracy as an Ork boy firing his pistol into the air? Again it doesn't make sense.

We need either Twin-linked or an increase to BS3. If you cannot kill reliably then the only game you're playing is catch-up, and Orks fail at this.

Orks are quite frankly dead in the water and stuck in past editions.

How many times have you heard someone complain that they have BS3, or S3, or 'only' a 4+, or that their 3+ is shit.

It is just so extreme in this game that the slightest chink in your armour (or army in this case) is so detrimental. And as stated before that is the core statline for everything in the Ork codex.

Makes me so sad and tired of this game. Really does.
>>
>>44769446
Definitely your meta. At lower point games against unoptimized lists, Orks can hang with SW, nids, and super not optimized guard. But higher point games (1250+) the only army that won't be an automatic face roll will be nids. If your experience differs, your meta is full of cool guys, retards, or none of you are getting rules right. RAW, Orks/nids biggest enemies are the rules themselves.
>>
>>44769517
Honestly I don't really understand how you're winning, what size board do you play on?

You just melt to large blasts and templates, you're slow and have very clear target priority.

Bikes > Trukk with Manz (ignore the Manz) > Lootas > Mek Gunz. Then it is just clean up duty.
>>
>>44769748
Nids rape Orks with Paryoxym spam, psychic shriek, fear tests, and generally being cunts.
>>
>>44767245
>khorne daemonkin
>tier 4
Have you just not played against them? I win 9 out of 10 games with them.
If they had fluid access to invisibility they would be the absolute game breaking army, eldar wouldn't be shit.
>>
>>44768242
Rejuvanants or whatever? Just out of curiosity what is the average age of Stormies when they graduate?
>>
>>44769828
I think Schola is supposed to represent middle school through high school, so probably 17-18?
>>
>>44769742
>The issue is that you are never killing equal to or even comparably to what you are losing, and that is plain and simply because you are not hitting anything reliably in the shooting phase.

Nope, nope nope and nope.

You don't need good shooting for a good list. I've taken a Khorne Daemons list with only two guns in the entire army and facerolled triple riptide Tau at 2000 points.

I've collected enough Canoptek units that, with the previous Necron codex I was able to run an unbound Canoptek list for fun, only to discover it was usually overpowered to the point of being unfun to play against. I've not even tried it with the new codex for fear of improved Wraiths and formation bonuses making it even worse.

Again though? Trivial number of guns in the list.

Assault sucess is about reliable massed speed, which Orks can do, solid hitting power, which Orks are a bit shaky on, and enough survivability to hold. The first list I mentioned had invulnerable saves and daemonic instability. The second had high durability and fearless. Orks have shit for toughness and saves, and LD frickin' 7.
>>
>>44769840

It turns out Commisars, Stormtroopers and Sororitas. People with WS/BS 4. You might have some young graduates, but odds are they join their organisations somewhere in their 20s.
>>
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>>44769032

>Falling for bait
>Agreeing with some of it
>>
>>44769873

>falling for the memes and thinking Abaddon is a failure

wew lad
>>
>>44769870
Don't they not graduate at the same time though? I'd imagine a Administration drone could graduate faster than a Commisar, and Commisars are gleamed from talented Storm Troopers?
>>
>>44767245
>Tier 2
>Space Wolves

Then I suppose the Tyranids must be at least Tier 2 too, since they can spam Flyrants and do very well with them.
Right now the SW are definitely worse than DA, and the only "OP" tactic they have is spamming Thunderwolf Cavalry, hopefully with allied Librarian Conclave to give them invisibility
>>
>>44769898

Creator intent can mean jack shit if they fuck up and make a character look bad.

Clumsy damage control is hilarious and only makes things worse.

My point is, Abaddon is not an impressive general. A scary dude? 100% yes. Someone you don't want bearing down on your world? Of fucking course. The guy in best position to rally large numbers of heretic warbands? Yup. A serious threat to the imperium as a whole? Potentially, they are pretty vulnerable to a decapitation strike and he's one of the few people motivated to try it.

But a good general? A good long term planner? Naaaaaah.
>>
Hey guys what do you think of my Ork list?

1 Big Mek

2x Gretchin

Allies

Windrider Host

Skyrunner Farseer Skyrunner Eldar Jetbike

Skyrunner Warlock Conclave Brotherhood of Psykers , Communion of Minds

Jetbike Vyper Squadron Shuriken cannon, Shuriken catapults

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser

Windriders 3x Windrider with Scatter laser

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom

Wraith Constructs

Wraithknight Ghostglaive and Scattershield Ancient Doom
>>
>>44768242

Commisar Loli can't afford shoes.
>>
>>44769901
>I'd imagine a Administration drone could graduate faster
Well, no, you've got to memorize dewey decimal 40,000. That shit's going to be hard.

>and Commisars are gleamed from talented Storm Troopers?
No, they're separate. Check out the Militarum Tempestus book.
>>
>>44769933

Honestly Abaddon having specific strengths and failings makes him a better character. Not one dimensional.

I can actually take a pants-shittingly terrifying arch traitor more seriously if his ego gets in the way of the big picture than if he's got no real flaws.
>>
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>>44769933

>"Abaddon isn't a good general."
>"What makes you say that?"
>"Because he hasn't invaded and destroyed Terra and End Time'd the setting already."
>>
>>44769602
That doesn't invalidate my post, though. Yes marker lights can be used to improve snapshots. But the only marker lights that can improve overwatch are fired as snapshots themselves. Shooting phase marker lights expire in the shooting phase. Copy paste the whole marker light section, it says it in the big paragraph to the left of the bullet points. I'm on my mobile, don't have it on me or is do it myself.
>>
>>44769994

Less that, and more that all he's done is a bunch of raids.

Heck, he's not established even a single system of territory.

...The Eye of Terror is actually a serious handicap to Chaos Marine credibility: They run off to hide in madness instead of having to actually, y'know, maintain their own slice of the galaxy.
>>
>>44770014
I think you guys are missing the big picture.
He has singlehandedly UNITED the forces of CHAOS.
It's like being such a badass motherfucker that you unite all the prison gangs because of how terrified they are of you.
That's what makes Abbaddon such an enormous threat, his ability to dedicate the most evil and selfish cunts in the galaxy to a single cause.
I do agree with >>44769933 about the piss poor writing though.
>>
>>44769873
Of course it was bait... but a good bait always have some truths in it. I just pointed them out.
>>
>>44768520
Warp Talons, Possessed and Mutilators'd be a hell of a lot better with grenades. Maybe not great, but at least you could think about using them then.
>>
>>44769849
Last thread there was an idea posted that might fix Orks;

All Ork units generate an amount of Waaagh! energy balanced against their points cost. Achieving certain thresholds imparts army-wide bonuses along the lines of above x Waaagh! energy, all orks have FnP, above y they are all fearless, above z their save is improved by 1 (powerful psychic field they generate is now making saves for them) etc.

Al your enemy has to do to knock you down Waaagh! tiers is kill lots of boys, or high points-cost units. Either way, it should at least get you across the board and into assault range a bit more reliably? Thoughts?
>>
Any one know where I can download/read Warhammer 40,000: Fire & Honour?
>>
>>44769956

>no thigh highs

artist plz
>>
>>44769263
I can understand why they got rid of it but god damn that nerf was horrendous

>>44769517
I wish I could walk hordes of boys
>PTSD Wyvern flashback

>>44769651
Can't believe he'd ruin those models like that....
>>
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>>44769952
>taking 5 lords of war
>5 wraithknights and tons of scatterlasers
>both fair and legal
>apoc only units are still underpowered

suddenly i feel tired, just tired of all things 40k but painting
>>
>>44766435
1850-2k is what everyone packs for on warhammer night at my lgs but we usually end up playing in the the 1k-1500 range
>>
>>44770004
supporting fire
>>
>>44769748
>>44769767
We play 1500 points on a 48x48 board.
My meta is... Errr.
Well in general they like big monsters and big tanks. The grey knights and guard always field a knight at 1000 points or more and the eldar guy is a mix of dark eldar with a small amount of wraith allies including a wraith knight.
Nids is a flyrant, 6 carnifexes and millions of little guys with shrouding.
>>
>>44770035

>I cunningly took the bait
>Making myself look stupid was all part of the plan!
>>
>>44770031
>I think you guys are missing the big picture.
>He has singlehandedly UNITED the forces of CHAOS.
>It's like being such a badass motherfucker that you unite all the prison gangs because of how terrified they are of you.
>That's what makes Abbaddon such an enormous threat, his ability to dedicate the most evil and selfish cunts in the galaxy to a single cause.

Exactly.

Whoop de do he holds no territory and has only suceeded in being a persistent aggravation to a vast monolithic empire, knocking out a few systems here and there amongst millions.

He's still a scary bastard with some impressive skills.
>>
>>44770053

Some people like thigh highs, some people like feet.

Clearly the compromise is toeless thigh highs.
>>
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What sort of jobs could do rebellios Gue'las in a Tau "Gulag" or penal colony (moon, asteroid, or whatever)? Re-education taken into account.
>>
>>44770129
>Those lips
AYO SHAS'LA, HOL UP
>>
After a comment last thread, I need to make one of my Tau characters Shas'la Shas'ka.

Problem with that though is Shas'la means private. What's the best character/unit member to represent Tau Ocelot?
>>
>>44770129
Re-entering Imperial society covertly and preaching about the enlightened Greater Good, causing the Imperium to crumble from within.
>>
>>44770047
My thoughts are why do other units have no downsides to their formations yet Orks always have to?

Don't care about Waaagh! points, I'd rather have something similar to PFP if something that useless is going to be thrown in.
>>
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>>44770084
Stop being boring and enjoy this quite civilized thread.
>>
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>>44770152

Ghostkeel. The pilots get really attached to their AI waifu. Alternatively, A firesight marksman from a Sniper Drone team.
>>
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>>44770152

Sniper Drone's operators got pistols.
>>
FACT: Ultramarines are objectively the best chapter
>>
>>44770191
Why are those Firewarriors the size of Space Marine.
>>
>>44765967
Chosen can be solid, but you have to either run Abbadon or run the Black Legion supplement to have them as troops. The second makes them even more expensive since you have to buy VOTLW, while the former runs into the Typhus problem.
>>
>>44770206
Why haven't they squatted the Tau then?
>>
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>>44770004
Sorry to misrepresent your argument, my bad.

Yeah, totally though. "Markerlights remain next to their unit the end of the current phasse or until they're used (whichever comes first).

So the only way to get a markerlight to hit at better than a 6 is to chain markerlight hits from other Support Firing unit's markerlights in that assault phase.
>>
>>44770206

Literally the John Cena of the setting.
>>
>>44770204

Pulse Single Action Pistol, six shots. More than enough to kill anything that moves.

And yeah, that actually fits perfectly: My firesight marksman put the last wound on a Wraithlord with his pulse pistol once.
>>
I say that the best defence vs space marines in close-combat, particullarly spaceships, is really thigh corridors...filled with stairs.
>>
>>44770152
My Tau overhaul will contain loads of MGS references, myself. I had thought Darkstrider would be perfect for it, but I decided to make him Solid Snake. the Pathfinder box does contain a holstered pulse pistol and an unholstered one.
>>
>>44767761
Same damage output, at longer range, for cheaper, and with built in rules to make it better (The linking fire thing you can do in their detachment). The squishiness matters less than you'd think, with s7 and ap3 being fucking everywhere nowadays.

And, if you decide to really support them, they're nonsensically good. 3 shots each at BS5 S5 at 15 inches? Fuck me.
>>
>>44770206
Well, that's simply 100% accurate.
>>
>>44770265
Why you send in the scouts with shot guns.
Though it seems even the tightest spaces on a ship can fit a terminator.
>>
>>44770207
really shitty art
>>
>>44770206
I like the UltraRoman aesthetic a lot, even though (actually, ESPECIALLY) because of how silly and on-the-nose it looks sometimes.

Ancient Greek Space Minotaurs are also really neat
>>
>>44770299
Aren't boxy Dreadnoughts designed for ships/corridor fighting?

They're like those booby traps where the walls close in on you, but with a skeleton pilot and big flamethrower fist.
>>
>>44770265
>>44770299
>Implying they don't just tear through doors and tight corridors with Powerfists & Chainfists
>>
I actually unironically love that deploying Space Marines instead of just more guardsmen plays right into the Tau's hands.
>>
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Xposting because RPG can be slow at times
>>44770285
>>44770285
Thanks
>>
The Cult of Mechanicus Codex epub I've got has this line of text on the Kataphron Destroyer datasheet:
>Any model may replace phosphor blaster with a cognis flamer... 5 pts/model

However, the destroyers are not listed as carrying a phosphor blaster. Are they supposed to have a phosphor blaster in their wargear list?
>>
>>44770231
Thanks, anon. I sincerely appreciate you engaging me civilly.
>>
>>44770058
He's obviously trolling For the sake of it.
>>
>>44770367
Strange that they aren't listed in the wargear, I checked my pdf and it isn't on that either. But they do certainly get them by default.
>>
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>>44766583

I started Mechanicus a few months back, and my aim was always The War Convocation. I'm waiting for my Mechanicum Cerastus Knight-Atrapos to arrive now, other than that I'm all set.

The Infiltrators are, as you say, gorgeous models combined with wicked rules! The look on your opponents face when you dash out 5 shots a piece from these guys is priceless. First game I tried them I wasn't sure what to expect. But they took on a flank on their own, taking down a squad of ogryns, 2 units of veterans and a chimera. They then proceeded around the flank to strike home right in his HQ unit, ripping his commander in a challenge from hole to hole!
Needless to say, these guys didn't disappoint!
>>
Would Terminators be better if all of them could take special weapons?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGmmXd8r4YQ
>>
>>44770545
>Improve to T5
>All special Weps
>Split-fire upgrade
OK they are now good
>>
>>44770545

Yes of course. Overwise they are undergunned with those dinky storm bolters of theirs.
>>
>>44770470
It makes sense, you can see them on the model itself, it's just a weird oversight. I probably never would've realized it if not for that upgrade line.
>>
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>>44768656
I know im late to the party on this one but, WELCOME BROTHER TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF PLAYING BOTH ORKS AND TAU. Bring out the boyz for lower power armys or just fucking around, and when someone brings the cheese you can crush them for the greater good.... it's a very comfy place to be in this time of so much nerd rage
>>
Can I use Aetaos'rau'keres as my summoned Lord of Change?
>>
>>44770652
No. IA13 says as much, iirc.
>>
weebsness.
what do you guys think? gonna run them as GK
>>
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Can I take a Firebase Support Cadre with just a riptide and two units of single broadsides now? The restriction HAS been removed on requiring 3 broadsides in each unit. It would be super point efficient.
>>
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>>44770564
T5 Termis would make a lot more sense than what they are now, Terminator Armour in general just increasing Toughness by 1 makes more sense than Bikes increasing it. Of course then my Mega Armour has to increase Toughness too
>>
>>44770590
Not fond of orks can I join? I play CSM, KDK and TauCrons, all casual as fuck. I'm more liable to use CSM for low power armies but I just find TauCrons a lot more tactically engaging due to my lists.
>>
>>44766336

We were doing this for our kdk player while he was learning since anything besides our tyranid player smacked him up too hard. The handicap was a free Heldrake that still took a slot but paid no base points. He sure misses it now that it was taken away. Though I think he may sneakily be building daemon allies now.
>>
>>44770677
>t6 nurgle terminators

yesboner
>>
>>44770662
Awww shit is that Kromlech parts? I've been wanting to make a small Khornate Samurai army for a while now. Looks baller.
>>
I fucking hate alliances in this game, ruins shit even further along with GMC's and Super heavies.
>>
>>44770712
I follow a "No GCs or Superheavies and 1 MC per 1000 points only" rule.
>>
>>44770709
yeah cromlech and puppets of war
>>
Everything in the game, literally everything with a strength value be it in melee or shooting, drops one point in strength. D weapons become S10.

Is the game more balanced as a result?
>>
Would a "power armour swarm" be a viable army? Black Templar crusader squads backed up by sisters?
>>
>>44770751
Hell no
>>
>>44770688
As long as dem spikey boyz see the table once in awhile, dey know how to fight proper orky
>>
>>44770751
No. it makes tough things even tougher to kill
>>
>>44770751
Less.

Spammable mid-high str is still piled in the high end of the factions, auto-wound abilities still belong to the high end, melee becomes even more drawn out and inefficient.
>>
>>44770751

Well, it would fix vehicles I guess.
>>
>>44770590
Thanks, anon. That was my gf reasoning when she gave them to me. Told me to build a rape machine and save it for the lists that absolutely don't stand a chance against, but save my boyz for the fun games. She got really sad a couple weeks ago watching my last few games against my buddy who I got into the game two years ago (started him on space wolves, he now has bangles, sallies, and GK. Last games were sallies and psyker and soul blaze heavy GK). Even with her very limited understanding of the rules, she was all "why does anyone ever even play Orks?!"

She got super into the necrons lore and aesthetics, so i got her the codex and starting box. We just painted 6 warriors and 3 scarabs. Gonna start posting in WIP when I get pics.
>>
How would Toughness D function?
>>
>>44770709
Back when I bought 9 Kromlech Meganobz they sent me this, too bad I don't play power armour
>>
>>44770793
Easiest Fix to vehicles: give them an amour save. makes weapons that are made for killing tanks no less good at it, and lets vehicles weather the storm of medium strength weapons more easily
>>
>>44770677
>makes more sense than Bikes

So slapping on some armour that'll outlast you is better than multiplying the unit's mass? That bike does add a lot of stuff around you and can absorb hits for you. I'm surprised cavalry doesn't get toughness increase as well. Surely a horseman can take more beating than a lone trooper.
>>
>>44770734
>implying this fixes anything
>>
>>44770821

Green stuff an egg onto those legs and field them as Egg.
>>
>>44770670

>tau army
>still looking for more efficiency
>>
>>44770821
I'd love to do one up but I don't get many games and I already got 4 armies. Maybe one day if I downsize and get more games in.
>>
>>44770751
Str 2 ap null lasgun hits?
How about go fuck yourself.
>>
>>44770836
It doesn't fix a lot of things, but it really helps mitigate the worst of the lot. No WKs, no Knights, max 2 Riptides can be handled without too much issue. Just pack a lot of firepower.
>>
>>44770751
>Lasguns Str 2
>Standard is Str 3
>Standard T is still 4
Did you even think before you typed that?
>>
>>44770863

Eh, you don't take Guard to do damage. You take them to stand behind your tanks to block drop pods from hitting AV 10.
>>
>>44770875

>Be nids

>Only 1 MC per 1000 points

>1000 point Army is forced to be 6000 Hormagaunts and Old One Eye.
>>
>>44770912

You think Hormagaunts cost less than 1 point for 6?
>>
>>44770912
Now I want to play a scenario to see how long my 1000 point list survives against 6000 hormagaunts...
>>
>>44770877
>a weapon which barely wounds and counts on mass shooting to do 1-2 wounds, after going through +,++,+++.
>make it so less shots have a chance of even having to be saved.

Maybe you shouldn't make retarded "Game-wide" fixes.
>>
>>44771041
I was commenting on someone else trying to make game-wide changes, please learn how replying works before posting
>>
>>44770912
While that sounds fun as fuck, you're being purposefully thick. I only employ such a rule with the top/high-tier armies. shit like Tau, Eldar, Admech and all that. And it's all up to reason too. I don't generally play with cunts, but it's a good enough rule as a starter that can be relaxed once I know the person won't be a WAACfag
>>
>>44770982
For shits and giggles the last time I face tyranids I insisted he gain the 5+ Reanimation Protocol on all his troops. This made his army so much more durable (obviously) but also gave it an actual endless horde feel. My Salamanders had an amazing time crisping xenos.
>>
>>44771041

Hah yeah, changing rapid fire to be allowed to move and shoot to full range would be ridiculous!
>>
What's the Emperor's name anyhow?
>>
>>44771160

Sheev.
>>
>>44771160
Donald Trump
>>
All eldar weapons are now heavy. Does this make the game more balanced?
>>
>>44771200
Nope
>>
>>44770833
>Terminator armour doesn't add mass
The first thing your bike is going to get hit on is its wheels. The fact bikes increase your movement, make you better at shooting (relentless), and make you Tougher, along with giving you a free cover save is pretty fucking nutty.

And then you realize a Space Marine bike is 20 points, and Terminator armour is 40.

Dont get me wrong I dont want my Warbikerz being T4 but there is nearly no advantage to taking Terminator Armour over bikes other than the 2+/5++
>>
>>44771200

Only if you have the following special rule:

Frail, twig-like elf-arms: All units in this detachment never count as relentless or slow and purposeful, and must snap fire if they move for any reason.
>>
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>>44770851
Silly gue'la, we're always improving for the greater good
>>
Matt ward rewrites every single codex plus a new edition. Does this fix the game?
>>
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>>44771271
>twig-like elf-arms
>>
>>44771303

>Experimental designation is taken off Shadowsun's battlesuit, making it the XV25-02 and replacing current stealth suits

>All Stealth Suits now have a 5++, two weapons and can split fire them.
>>
>>44771352
>Nova Reactors are now miniaturized and installed in all crisis suits and broadsides
>Reactors are still unstable
>Tau suits exploding like popcorn
Still in the testing phase
>>
>>44771329
>Wanting your fluff to be irreversibly raped
>Wanting more new baby carriers
>Wanting more Draigo esque characters
>>
>>44771380

>On the plus side, you don't need to nova charge and Iridium plating is now standard. All suits larger than Stealth now have +1 T and +1 to saves
>>
>>44771329
Balance-wise, yeah, the game actually probably improves vastly. Get someone else to write the fluff?
>>
>>44771410
Are we just buffing tau now?
>All tau gain +1 BS and +1 initiative
>All drones now have 5 BS
>Markerlights are no longer heavy weapons
>>
>>44771435

>New fluff guy does a complete rewrite

>Space marines are now clan-based knightly orders of both genders, who breed instead of gene seeding as the tech to grow marines is gone

>Grey Knights are just brainwashed inquisition tool marines with no free will or individuality

>Chaos Marines own half the empire instead of the Eye, with a constant war going on between the halves of the galaxy

>Craftworlds out, Codex is Exodites

>Dark Eldar are the massive majority of the Eldar who were in the radius of Slaanesh's birth. Almost soulless, they feed on others in begruging slavery to their dark goddess to stave off their doom.

>Tau are capitalist megacorps instead of commies

>Necrons are australian aboriginal instead of egyptian

>Tyranid hive mind is explicitly a Warp God with mortal cultists, primarily Ogryns who call it the Great Maw
>>
>>44771528

Yes, but in context of improved tech.

Fuck it, they crack Gene Seed tech and now all Fire Caste are WS/BS/S/T/I 4.

New fire warrior armour is 3+, jet pack infantry and comes with a rail rifle.
>>
>>44771550

And Orks?
>>
>>44771617

Orkz iz Orkz.
>>
>>44771610

>confused by that picture

Virgin detected.
>>
>>44771595
>They also reverse engineer from captured tyranids and can now make more tau from biomass
>Tau infiltrators steal necron reanimation tech and now suits can continue fighting after their pilots are killed or after taking severe damage
>Tau ethereals bore into the mind of an ork and now tau can waagh but for the greater good
>>
>>44771617
judging by the amount of logic in that Greentext id guess they were squatted
>>
>>44771550

I know you're trying to sound dumb, but half of those sound cool.
>>
>>44771674
>Knowing what is happening makes it logical
>>
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>>44771528

Rail rifles are the standard issue weapon for Firewarriors.

>Rapid Fire. 30 UM S 6 AP 1
>>
>>44771717

>This guy hasn't had a tubajob
>>
>>44771761
>All tau infantry are trained in melee combat
>The Dawn Blade is mass produced and distributed to all Shas'uis
>>
>>44771761

What do Breachers get?
>>
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>>44771550
I fail to see why people claim the Tau are commies.

>inb4 its just a meme.

They're clearly National Socialists, as they advocate each race finding its place in nature and prospering. They see this as the best way to peace and harmony in the galaxy, as it is nature's way (hence why NatSoc is called "the biological worldview"). They don't believe every race is the same, but just painted a different color (like commies do).
>>
>>44771789
ion rifles, of course
>>
>>44771786

>All Shas'uis can select one unit for the entire army to have shred and tank hunters against
>>
>>44771789
Ion Cannons
>>
>>44771761
That'd be horrible, but I personally love everything to do with Rail Rifles. I even enjoyed the oldass Fire Warrior vidya because of it and the sound it makes. I love sniper shit.

I wish Tau could field them more than just MSU Pathfinders.
>>
>>44771789

Defense Drones with +4 or +3 invulnerable for the whole unit.
>>
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>>44771761
>Rapid Fire. 30 UM S 6 AP 1
>tfw loving the fuck out of the look of tau with rail rifles
>but noone in my meta uses vehicles that i could even remotely hurt with it.
>why even live

>>44771789
>The breacher guns strongest profile S6 AP3
>But with torrent
>and 3++ to get close
>can run and shoot with no penalty
>Can shoot twice if they didnt move
>>
>>44771804
The Tau's society doesn't directly correlate 1:1 with anything in human history, but can be easily molded into various different political viewpoints or notable societies depending on whose putting forth the argument, and what fluff they're focusing on and who wrote what, etc.

But your point is still well made.
>>
>>44771804

They are clearly Plato's Republic.
>>
>>44771761
Honestly? I would take Fire Warriors with Rail Rifles as an Elite option. Doubly so if they could get the Breacher's field tech, but there's just something g awesome about the idea of a full squad of them
>>
>>44771873
Use them anyway. I stick them with Darkstrider to ID T4 units. My friend's paladins quake in fear.
>>
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>>44771916
>clearly
Can you help me out and explain?

It seems we all agree they're certainly not commies, just by virtue of them holding views incompatible with communism, such as their implementation of a caste system.

Other than that they seem to function under a system of "might makes right".
>You can peacefully join the cause of the Greater Good, but if you decide otherwise, you will be annihilated.

Thus, they most closely model a National Socialist system. I'm not saying they match NatSoc Germany (historically) by any means, but rather in terms of ideology they are without a doubt NatSocs.

>We must work together for something greater than ourselves.
>Same concept as the Greater Good.

Thoughts, /tg/?
>>
Question before this thread drops off the board. Does anyone play DE coven lists and how have done with them? Was thinking of DIY some of the big units because I have all these bits and wanted to know how they played. Thanks
>>
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>>44772063
>>
>>44772024
Oh i definitly still use them, just that they almost never have any good targets to plink at.

>>44772070
in short -
Like kinda more durable DEldar, but with more strength instead of shittons of attacks.
Slightly more debuff stuff.
Very fun to use.
>>
>>44772105
This is interesting, where is it from?
>Did you make this?
>>
>>44772063
Go start your own thread
>>
>>44772130
Fair enough. I hope good targets find their way into your optics, comrade!
>>
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>>44772217
Thanks mate, see ya in the next general.
>>
>>44771804

"National Socialism" means nothing. It's the equivalent of saying Republican Democratic Libertarian party. It was basically a political movement more related to aesthetics and romanticism than ideologies like liberalism, communism etc.
>>
I have the opportunity to buy ten terminators all stormbolter/power fist and five Deathwing knights. He has the bits for one box of termis and everything the deathwing box comes with. Would that be worth $100 USD? I have been thinking of adding deathwing force to my Ravenwing and this is an immediate deal I can do in person. However I only need five termis and the knights right now plus an hq
>>
>>44770176

>40k generals
>Civilised

It's manbaby tears 24/7 and has been all year.
>>
>>44769538
Not anymore, in 7th there's no reduction in transport cap
>>
>>44772345

Nationalism, with the governmental control of all aspects of life socialism has.

Pretty straighforward. It's a fancy way of saying "Prideful totalitarianism."
>>
>>44770265

I'd just remind them that their physiology makes no sense and fused ribcages would mean they have the flexibility of a 90 year old woman.
>>
>>44772359
Not even close, 10 terminators are approx 100 and you get non of the special weapons the box has in it. no deal.
>>
>>44772371
Nah it's still there. Looted wagons don't lose transport space if you put killkannons on them though. Logic!
>>
>>44771804
>>44772063
>>44772345
>>44772394
>>>/pol/
>>
>>44770206
I got marneus + honor guard and now I want to make a smurfs army. I remember when they used to be hated for being mary sues. You think anyone will mind if I use betrayal at calth ultramarines in a 40k army?

oh who the fuck am i kidding i never play i just paint armies.
>>
>>44772398

BROTHER, I HAVE FALLEN AND I CANNOT ARISE
>>
>>44772359
>>44772401

yeah but if he has the complete bits for the box of knights and one of the boxes of terminators he is basically getting five plain terminators free.

For me as long as the bit boxes have everything it would be a good deal. With the command squad bits and one of the regulars you can bash an hq then the other four you kit out for what you need. Shields and Hammers and maybe two at least one missile launcher.
>>
>>44766599
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but wouldn't that be statistically 13 hits with a unit of 5? With 2s to wound that means about 11 hits. With a 2+ save isn't that only like 2 wounds?
>>
>>44771160
St. George
Conan
Hitler
Jesus
Take your pick.
>>
>>44767531
There are a few ways to play CSM, how "good" the list is depends almost entirely on how many marines you bring. The less you bring, the better it is.
>>
>>44772808

Hitler doesn't really make any sense: The modern imperium has some nazi-like tendencies, but that still doesn't mean an immortal turk would value the german people to such a crazy extent.

Also he'd be more competent and not open a second front against russia before resolving the britain issue.
>>
>>44772866

Do we have direct evidence Emps is actually an ancient immortal and not just a bullshitter supersoldier project grown in the Himalayas labs?
>>
>>44772866
Lebensraum, racial purtiy, authoritarianism, etc. It's vague as fuck, but you can't not have Hitler if you're gonna go balls deep into historical allegory.
>>
>>44772910
Yes, his birth has been canon since like 2nd Edition.
The Malcador's Pet theory is just recent fanon.
>>
>>44772950
>Yes, his birth has been canon since like 2nd Edition.

I'm aware it got an ancient mention, but is it pointed to in the current fluff, particularly as said current fluff is doing an absurdly overlong flashback to the heresy era?
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