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Horus Heresy 30k General: Wings of Fury Edition
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File: merryheresymas.png (717 KB, 812x542) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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>HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed) (embed)

>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

>HHG RULES
>- https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
>- https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/

>Xenos in 30K Homebrew - https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30k
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Does pdf related means that HH armies can be used in regular 40k games, or are these just rules clarifications? The title is unequivocal for me.
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I didn't knew that Corax was primarch of world eaters.
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>>44640958

Rules clarfications.

Also Tartaros is now best armour. Indomitus is next to worthless now.
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>>44641524
He's actually Alpharius.
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>>44641547
>hey, guys, buy our resin suits

And people give GW crap about making rules to boost sales. Well, good to know that all the fluff about the various terminator suits being virtually identical was a load of bullshit. I'll just continue to suck with my 10 indomitus suits.
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>>44641547
It is rather strange that tartaros is just a straight upgrade of indomitus, since they made a point of cataphractii having plus and minus to it.
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>>44641668
Tartaros hasn't had unique rules until now. it's somewhat bizarre that they would be reclassified this way through an errata, but I'm guessing that it's one of the big changes coming in the new red books.

I'd imagine that Indomitus will eventually get something.
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>>44642385
>Tartaros hasn't had unique rules until now.

Neither have any of the PA variants.

>I'm guessing that it's one of the big changes coming in the new red books.

Wonder how they going to balance it out if they're not going to mess with the points, as I've been told. So you got two options that cost the same, of which one is superior to the other. What is this, codex by Cruddace?
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>>44642384
What could they do to balance it out? Remove relentless? So you got one suit that's basically 2+/5++ PA, one that's standard terminator and one that's S&P but with a 4++ save?
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>>44640958
interesting to see that they made the Consul-Delegatus a cheaper upgrade, you're mostly paying for the free Master-crafted weapon by the looks of it.
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>>44642736
Might not be terrible. You'd keep the indomitus if you're keeping the squad cheap, go tartarus for heavy weapons, and cataphractii for when the unit needs to survive, and you're not afraid to buy it a box.
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>>44642702
>Neither have any of the PA variants
Well, at least there's so many mixed suits and special snowflake designs used by various models that there's no way they could pull THAT off.

Also, do ANY models in 30k actually come with Indomitus in the rules? Like, they're explicitly stated to have it and it's not merely a modelling option. I get the feeling they will bring them in soon because of this.
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>>44640958
>Dark Angels: For an additional +15 points per model, Castellax Battle-automata with the Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels) special rule may
re-roll failed To Wound rolls against Monstrous Creatures and Flying Monstrous Creatures.


Has this always been here or is this just something to hint what the Dangels are going to get as a special rule, if so thats pretty shitty
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>>44643121
This is new.
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>>44643129
Are there even any FMC? I think the admech have some MC but thats it
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>>44643070
Gorgons got indomitus suits.
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>>44643034
Actually, no, since they have combi-bolters instead of storm bolters, you'd want the not-relentless for your dual claws melee guys I guess.
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>>44643162
They do get combi-weapons. So flamers, meltas, etc. let you assault after firing.
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>>44641624

Yes, Alpharius pretending to be Corax pretending to be Angron.
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>>44643145
If they start importing more bullshit like Mechanicums robot MC's into HH, I'm out. And I imagine tens of thousands of others will be too.

One army getting MC's while another uses walker rules - for essentially the same type of unit? Nope. I hope they are smarter than that.
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>>44643355
I mean, deamons are a thing in 30k, so FMCs could be an issue just from that.
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>>44643355
Have you even played HH? Because Mechanicum IS in HH and has been ever since they came out.
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>>44642994
I'm glad they did it. Anything that makes small lists easier to create helps the game, and there's exactly zero reasons to grab a Delegatus once you play past a certain size.

The MSU tax is already quite penalizing, so freeing up a few points is great. Might be what's needed to give a sarge AA armor or melta bombs.
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Opinions on Stone Gauntlet RoW for IF? Is it possible to build a good list using it?
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>>44640958
The old FAQ/Errata had the same titling. People still bitched.
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hey /tg/, I need some kind of big statue to serve as a terrain/objective centerpiece for my thousand sons, do you reckon pic would work painted as stone or is it too mayan/not egyptian enough?

Seems like it blends Tzeentch's snake motif with the Corvidae's bird wings.
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>>44645336

That could work, prospero was supposed to be a haven of art and sculpture so anything fancy and grand enough should work fine
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>>44645336

Planets are big places. You can always say there was one chapter of the TS that used feather serpents as their icon, and this is where they got it from.
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>>44645336
I guess I should make some kinda object for my Space Wolves as well. A runestone seems kinda dank in 30k. Anyone got any ideas?
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So I note that the non-Legion/Mechanicum relics are now 'narrative'. Damn. Looks like my phase walker is gonna be swapped for a Contagia Mechanicum.

>captcha; I am not a robot.
Unfortunately.
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>>44645992
Pretty sure it's all relics, sadly.
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>>44645969
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>>44645336
>>44645969
You people are contagious...
I have a huge Mierce Miniatures Hydra sitting in storage somewhere. Would make an awesome statue to go with my AL...

pic related, that's a 120mm base btw (not mine)
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>>44646085
That's really a bit too much on the Celtic side.
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>>44646488
Then buy a pack of modeling clay and make your own piece of fake stone. It's actually quite easy.
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>>44640958
Goodbye bunker pods, you were ok I guess.
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>>44646488
Can't really think of anything off the bat then, everything I have in mind very much swings in the celtic direction.

If you want something low key you could try carving it.
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>>44646537
Well, I don't really want a stone. It seems a bit too superstitious for 30k Space Wolves. I guess I will just go with something generic with a wolf emblem.
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>>44646639
Space Wolves were superstitious. Even in 30k.
>>
Pouring over the FAQ is proving interesting.

- Tartaros armour getting a free upgrade is cool, I suppose you do see the suits a little rarely in games and it's conditional on everyone being able to SA. Even less reason to take Indomitus, it's weaker for no benefit.

- A shame that an opportunity to rebalance chainfire was missed.

- Given the quick nature of Vorax robts, why can't a Praevian take a movement improvement? And given the slow and tough nature of Castellax, why not terminator armour? Cortex Controllers can't be that restrictive, since Warsmiths can take them without restriction. Strikes me as unusual, as I'm only now noticing.

- Delegatus got cheaper, which I frankly find entirely acceptable (plus free master crafting! it's almost like they realise it's worth less than one attack). We'll likely see more of them now, so mission successful

- Twin lightning claws worth only 5pts more than one lightning claw, and flamers worth 10pts. This isn't new, but oh how you make me chuckle Alan.

- VETERANS ARE ALWAYS SCORING. Means they'll see use outside of Pride of the Legion/Chosen Warriors armies. Other units also gain Implacable Advance; did Mor Deythans really need that? Headhunters and Seekers gain an identical bonus, thus neatly keeping the former behind the latter.

- Legion Dreads are actually viable for melee. This kind of small adjustment gets me very excited about where 30K is going. The more cool functional options, the merrier.

- Laser Destroyers Arrays are free as exchange for Demolisher Cannons ahahahaha yes, now I'm not making a coherent commentary any more but this is like a late Christmas

- Did I mention it can shoot TWICE if it's still oh sweet mama baby

- Night Lords get a tidy little buff, which isn't much but is appreciable for my old favourite legion

- Permission mechanics for Relics? Hmm, I think that might work better than it did for Special Characters due to the personalising nature of custom characters. But I'll wait to see.
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>>44646059
The legion relics count as relics of the dark age?
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>>44646891
So it says I can now take my Knight Crusader with the Alpha Legion force I'm building. Would a Knight Crusader be any good in 30k? I feel like it's got an overabundance of AP3 with the Battlecannon, but would that mean I can't take a Primarch since you can only have one LoW?
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Can I get away using teal for my Sons of Horus?
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>>44646891
Glad you're getting excited about the Laser Destroyer Vindicator, but it hasn't really changed from the experimental rules that came out when the model was released.

Also The Night Lords rule is unchanged from the previous FAQ/Errata.
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so question about Coils


When it says all infantry must BE ABLE to infiltrate or deep strike, if I place my terminators in a Khyris drop pod which must deep strike, that will fulfill the requirement for deep striking correct?

That sounds pendantic but I do want to play it correctly
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>>44647144
Where does it say you can take a Questoris Knight Crusader in a Legion Astartes army?
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>>44646891
Keep in mind that the Demolisher Laser Destroyer upgrade is in the red book (for 10 points, which BTW is unchanged), the change is that extra "power capacitor" rule which makes it a bit stronger, provided that you stay stationary, it gets THAT for free, not the weapon-swap.
Please read the text carefully.
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>>44646807
Well, I guess I will just go with that then. Making one out of clay should be easy as pie.
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>>44647244
The termis can take it as a dedicated transport (which is the other option, after infiltrate and deepstrike, stick shit in vehicles).
The fact that the transport deepstrikes is irrelevant here. They have a transport, so they're good.
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>>44647244
It needs to have the Infiltrate or Deepstrike special rule and since a Kharybdis is not a DT for Terminators, you need to make their Mutable Tactic Infiltrate.
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>>44646983
Yes.

>>44647190
Stick the Eye of Horus on them and absolutely.
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>>44647344
nvm this, the Kharybdis is no dedicated transport. So no, you can't. You can take an Anvillus Dreadclaw as a dedicated transport, but only for 5 termis, rather than 10.
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>>44647344
Kharybdis is not a dedicated transport for Legion Terminators.
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>>44647394
I realized just too late. see >>44647391
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>>44646983
Yes, they were all released in book 4, and are all part of the same section.
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>>44647344

Okay I forgot that's a dedicated transport for them but what if I wanted to put them in a Storm eagle that deep strikes? They're deep striking, thus the "ability to deep strike" is satisfied isn't it?


>>44647351

It just says the ability to deep strike or infiltrate, not that they must possess the rule natively. The question is if they're placed in a non dedicated deep strike transport does that satisfy the requirement.
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>>44647467
The problem with the storm eagle plan is every unit has to either have one of the rules itself, or be in a DT. And I believe it does explicitly say dedicated transport, not just transport.
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>>44647467
This has been asked to FW already:

Q
The limitations of The Coils of Hydra Rite say that all infantry squads must have a Dedicated Transport or Infiltrate or Deep Strike to be chosen as part of the force.
- Does a squad wich begin the battle inside a vehicle (not a Dedicated Transport) can be chosen? (ex: 20 Breacher Siege starting in a Spartan)
- Can it be chosen if it begin the batlle in a vehicle (not Dedicated) which will enter via Deep Strike? (ex: 20 Breacher Siege starting as reserve inside a Storm Eagle or a Kharybdis Assault Claw)
FW
Thanks for your e-mail. In both of the cases that you mention, these squads may not be chose because they do not have a dedicated transport or have the Deep strike or Infiltrate rules themselves (event if they are in a vehicle that can deepstrike). However, if you have chosen to give your units the Legiones Astartes: Alpha Legion special rule then they can take Infiltrate as part of the Mutable Tactics ability.

So no, you need to have the Deep Strike or Infiltrate rule on the terminators, not just be able to do it via a transport.
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>>44647549
unless it's a dedicated transport that is.
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>>44647549

Ugh, gay. trying to think of how to use my storm eagle without pidgeon holing into Infiltrate.

I want my counter attack Templar brethren and my flying Terminator death ball damnt
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>>44647144
Yeah I'm with >>44647253, I didn't see that.

>>44647204
I guess I must've just slipped those. It reinforces the important of actually incorporating FAQs and Errata into new editions all the more.

>>44647190
Yes, but not for horoscope-tier reasons. Teal is a murky, obscure and temperamental colour, strange tides shifting 'neathy a storm-wracked surface. The warriors of doom are coming, and like wolves they raven at the throats of prey.

>>44647244
I reckon they'd be eligible.
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>>44647604

That's why Alpha Legion aren't really all that great as some people think. Their RoW is one of the more restrictive ones.
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>>44647644

Well power wise I could just take a spartan as a DT and be fine but it's not the same damnt

I might have to do something lame like put headhunters in my storm eagle

And yes it's because I have the model already and just want to use it
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>>44647679

Actually wait

I can buy a tax rhino for the brethren and just shove them in the storm eagle for some hot melee injection action
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>>44647144
No it doesn't.
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>>44647253
>>44647609
Last page of the new errata, it says that the Warden, Crusader, etc. from the Imperial Knight codex can also be taken with certain upgrades. It's under "Additional Knight Types"
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>>44640958
>Does pdf related means that HH armies can be used in regular 40k games
I don't get why people get so hung up on this.

If you want to use your legion list, use it, if your opponent doesn't want to play it swap to normal 40k marines or find a different opponent.

There are no official 40k tournament rules, there are no rules about who you can or cannot play, just play the fucking game.
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>>44647773
You do realize Questoris Knight is a specific army list? They're saying you can take the new Knights in a Questoris Knight army list. The only way you can add those knights into a Legion list is by Allying them in and then you need a minimum of two knights.
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>>44647801
I'm retarded? :(
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>>44647826
No, probably just reading the FAQ/Errata a little too fast.
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>>44647284
You're right, I did glance over those rules. Two glasses of red and a general buzz over effective errata can do that to a man.
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>>44643421

Then I'm out.
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>>44647549

How about if Armillus grants the terminators deep strike via his warlord trait?
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I'm glad they addressed the S&P issue with Cataphractii.
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>>44647549
I suppose this makes sense if you rule it that the Coils represents countless individual units working in relative isolation to arrive in position prior to the battle, and such cannot depend on the virtues of another vehicle unit unless it's explicitly assigned as their own. As a non-AL player I suppose I should be thankful.
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>>44647893
Apparently you were never in to begin with...
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So I have a few questions about me finally picking a legion, coming from solar auxilia. I want to make a Luna Wolves army out of a calth box and about 150 USD to customize and get other units for.

What is the theme for the pre-heresy sons of horus? I felt like they're shock troops that are pretty generalist when it comes to units they make use of.

I was looking at forge world things to buy and had a couple questions. Is the transfer sheet/brass wrong, because I thought the moon came from the bottom of the sigil. Also will they ever release maybe shoulder pads or something for them?
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>>44647893
Gained one, lost one.

Did you seriously not notice the huge section of mechanicus shit on FW? Hell, GW only releases Skitarii and Cult Mech because FW's Mech sold so well.
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>>44647826
Never simply assume you're a retard. If you're contemplating that you may be retarded, that's a massive sign you're not, although you may like one.
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>>44647949
I really don't get how that guy missed all the Mechanicum stuff. Presumably he's a 40Ker who didn't realise that the rise of Admech in that game is directly precipitated by 30K Mech.
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>>44647923
>How about if Armillus grants the terminators deep strike via his warlord trait?

That should work, because they then have DS at the start of the game.
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>>44648005
Pretty sure it's just b8.
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>>44648031

Can Armillus tag along with the squad he gives deep strike to? I want to squeeze every point of value from his cognis
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>>44648050
What makes you think that?
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>>44648156
I don't think so, generally every model in a unit needs to have DS to be able to use it.
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>>44648223
The sheer idiocy of it.
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>>44648233

Figured. Oh well, I feel like the cognis might be wasted on Templar brethren but they do have a nuncio vox to bring in the terminator death ball and the cognis has a 6" range. Might not be too bad
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>>44648156
Armillus can grant himself deep strike with his Warlord Trait, but that defeats the purpose of DS-ing with your Termies.
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>>44648431

Yeah exactly. Fug that


On a different note: how has everyone's expeience with crusader brethren been?
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>>44648353
Meh. He wouldn't be the first to confuse the Mechanicum and the Mechanicus. No one wants to see Kastelan in their HH games. Unless he meant any form of Machine Cult unit. Then he's an idiot.
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>>44648156
>>44648417
If you use Autilon Skorr it's easier to pull off.
If Autilon chooses traits from the big rulebook he's allowed to pick which he gets.
If you pick "Strategic" Warlord traits, #3 "Master of Ambush", the warlord and 3 non-vehicle units gain infiltrate.
Skorr is not nearly as awesome as Dynat, but it gets around your issue.
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>>44648707

Ah that's smart. Still feels like a waste of a warlord trait if I'm not even going to infiltrate them anyway. Taking the rhino tax for the Templars and teleporting the termies in to their vox is sounding pretty sweet though
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>>44648769
true, but it's something to theme a list around I feel. As it allows you to take units normally excluded from the Coils list unless you use infiltrate for Mutable tactics.
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Okay this will be a stupid question, new to 30k, skimmed through the red books, I'm assuming that if you take a primarch he has to be your warlord, but I can't actually find the rule that says it. Can somebody either confirm or deny this? for example:

>>44648707

what he says about Autilon Skorr would be awesome to use, but if I want to bring Alpharius it kinda negates that.
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>>44648353
There be more to the baiten that sheer stupidity, me laddie. (entertain my scotch accent for a mo) Baiters generally aim for something near-guaranteed to cause an immediate outraged reaction, which just doesn't fly in these threads (not that a novice would necessarily factor that in). Moreover it seemed like that anon had an actual set of expectations, however naive. My rule of thumb is to attribute to idiocy over evil if both are equally plausible, if only because the latter is a relative concept and the former is not.
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>>44649027
It's under the Master of the Legion rules, which states the hierarchy for leadership of an army is as follows: Primarch, Delagatus, Praetor, Centurion/other Consul.

It's a bit of a common sense-er in any case. Why would a Primarch take orders from anyone other than a more senior 'march or the Emperor?
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>>44649027
Jealous Command seems to imply quite heavily that the Primarch overrides everything.

Also, the newly updated FAQ states:
>Is it possible to field multiple HQs with a provision that they ‘must be’ the army’s Warlord? If so, which is the Warlord?

You may only do this in the case of a Primarch. In all cases, a Legion’s Primarch takes precedence over others, and so if present in an army representing their Legion, they must be the army’s Warlord and can subordinate other characters with this special rule (although you will gain no Warlord benefits from the subordinate characters). With the exception of a Primarch and subordinates, however, you may not include more than one model with this limitation in any particular army.
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>>44649248
Great point. It just would've seemed more sneaky if Alpharius wasn't the Warlord while in hiding. Thanks for the answer though!
>>
You know, while the errata is a bit hit & miss, I'd definitely say it's more hit. The terminator change is certainly dissappointing, but the relic one doesn't change too much, and most everything else is a positive.
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Would it be normal for a legion to not have legion-specific decoration on their armour? I'm talking about the Forgeworld upgrade sets. I'm wanting to get into 30k with BaC and while I can explain my Imperial Fists having MkIV armour I'd be nice to not have to reason up why their armour is generic.
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>>44649663
Just put some IF transfers on the shoulder (or paint them freehand if you like) and you're good to go, the upgrade kits aren't exactly mandatory.
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>>44649663
The only legion for whom it'd be really strange is Salamanders, since they were widely known for it. Other than that, just the paint job and either a transfer or paintjob for the legion logo. The shoulder pads are for being to lazy to do either/prefering the texture to it.
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>>44649810
>>44649874
Thanks anons. I'll just pick up a transfer sheet off Forgeworld.
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>>44646891
>A shame that an opportunity to rebalance chainfire was missed.
Yep. Should be something like 2d6 shots and thats it. Not the "nerf one option to the point of never taking it"

>VETERANS ARE ALWAYS SCORING
Always been the case

>did Mor Deythans really need that?
They had it after the book 3 errata came out, which was right after the actual book
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>>44649027
It's also stated in the Primarch rule itself that they must be the army's warlord.
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can I ally an imperial knight to an aod force using it as a lord of war?
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>>44650737
Only way to get knights in Legion Astartes now is to Ally in a Questoris Knight army. You need two Knights minimum.
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Seems like everyone and their twin brother is doing Alpha Legion with their BaC starters. Anyone wanna convince me of another Legion I should look into with my two boxes?
>>
Please give Dorn model please... please.
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>>44650763
Just to clarify, if you're playing Legion Astartes, no you can't take them as a LoW.

If you're doing Mechanicum you can take Indentured Knights.

All other armies have to ally them in as Questoris Knights.
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>>44650976
Imperial Fists...though if you're planning on doing Stone Gauntlet you'd better off taking Breachers.
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>>44650976
Imperial Fists, get a master of the legion HQ in a CAD and you get 2 rolls that you can reroll in order to get Target Priority warlord trait, then sit back and enjoy your twin-linked bolters on everything 12'' from your warlord.
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>>44650976
Always willing to push salamanders. Lots of fire, an interesting unique RoW, and their rules provide for an interesting variance in lists/tactics.

One of the draws is deathstaring it up with your two wound storm shielded termies, a primus medicae outfitted the same and possibly your praetor. The 5++ against melta your vehicles get as part of the RoW is a great survival tool, and twinkling your own helps keep those somewhat expensive guns accurate.

There's also S6 AP 4 flamer wielding jetbikes, a dreanought HQ, and good old Vulkan.
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>>44651006
>>44651072
The two things that make me apprehensive about fists are 1) painting yellow well and 2) not having breachers or fortifications
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>>44651238
They can be predominantly black in 30k. Also you don't need fortifications.
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>>44649293
. . . that's a good point, but most games have both players check out army lists at the very start. In the provision that players use secrecy on units, wargear and special rules and powers until they're deployed, I'm sure you could work something out. Pretend that a unit is "benefitting" from a Warlord trait when in fact they have a bonus from a Chaplain in any case - thinking up that kind of technical non-lie is exactly what Alpharius would want you to do! Ave Hydrus.
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>>44651269
Oh that's fucking sexy.
>>
>>44650976
>>44651238
This thread was full of IF players when for a while too. Go with AL. Soon it will be nothing but BA/DA/WS anyway.

But if you're absolutely convinced not to be AL. Go for RG, they're the most similar, if you want to be better at killing and still be tactical. Or UM if you want to be straight tactical/sum of the parts.
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>>44651238
Paint them black, use them as veterans and enjoy your sniper BS5 bolter weapons, be lucky enough to get target priority and show your enemies that vanilla is best flavor.
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>>44649639
The only miss I see about the FAQ is missed opportunity (ie Chain Fire). What's bad about Terminators? Most suits of TDA are balanced as it is, but people do pick Cataphractii a lot more than Tartaros, which says that the former is better than the latter. I reckon this is just the small bonus needed to rectify this situation.
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>>44651329
The problem is that indomitus, the plastic termies that also existed during the heresy, and tartaros, FW non-cataphractii suit, used to have the same rules. Now they have different profiles, with the resin ones getting sweeping advance over the plastic ones.
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>>44650266
Eh, I don't think 2D6 shots or hits has the same mechanic texture needed for what Moritats do. I like the chainfire mechanism, although it's too weak for its price with Bolt Pistols or even Serpentas, and it was too strong with Plasmas back in the day. Perhaps instead each hit counts as the number rolled on the dice minus 2? I dunno, just throwing out ideas.

Here's a scan of the LAC red book. No mention of Objective Secured here. If it was in the previous errata but not then updated into the next edition then as covered already in this thread, it's something Forgeworld should be above. Same for Mor Deythans.
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>>44651238
Yellow isn't bad if you use an airbrush, goes on smoothly.
>>
>>44651426
I'm not seeing any problem with that. Just use Tartaros. They look more distinctive in any case. Game balance takes precedence over a minor fluff niche.
>>
>>44651238

Spray white.

Yellow ink.

Orange wash. Can also be gray or black if you're gay and hate bright colors

Highlight yellow

???

Lazy as fuck yellow done
>>
>>44651490
>No mention of Objective Secured here
Because it was never part of Implacable Advance. Vets were always scoring. The Previous FAQ granted Objective Secured to units with Implacable Advance in games OUTSIDE the Age of Darkness. This new one just has the previous FAQs update.

>Chainfire
As it is now it can be redonkerous. I've gotten up to 70 hits before. That shouldn't be allowed. 2d6 shots give it a limit with a chance for snake eyes. It also stops kaedes nex/bless combo from killing anything with a toughness/AV below 13. Since he has chain fire and does not have the lone killer rule.

The chainfire overheat is waaaaay to harsh. No one takes plasmatats anymore its that bad. If i had to try to fix it I would remove the last line saying it stops on any overheat. So 2's still hit and continue but generate a wound. Making plasma great but riskier than the original.
>>
>>44651717
Vets are Elite, when were they scoring in AoD games?
>>
>>44651717
It says in both the FAQ and every edition of the rulebook that Implacable Advance grants OS. I don't get what splitting hairs about this accomplishes; in the current rulebooks (HH1 or LAC) Veterans don't have Implacable Advance and so are not scoring/OS, this FAQ states that now they do. As stated before, if a previous FAQ granted that then that's great.

No-one would disagree with you on the plasma nerf, but the bigger issue is making Mori's useable with any gun. Maybe:

- Moritats are BS 7/8
- a Moritat makes a shot with each pistol at full BS, then each hit generates anothershot at -1 BS, another at -2 BS and so on down to BS 0?

This sets a functional cap at Moritat kills while still improving basic pistol output, and grants greater reason to double-tap normally.
>>
>>44651717
>Vets were always scoring.
You mean they were scoring since the first 7th Ed FAQ/Errata which gave them IA, making them a scoring unit.
>>
With the new tartaros rules, I'm getting a set of 5 for my RG.

5 in a Dreadclaw, 2 with chainfist and bolter, 2 with claws and bolters, sarge with 2 Raven Talons and grenades.

2 questions-

1. Is it worth it to give them magnetic combi - plasmas or meltas? Would they actually shoot something?

2. How hard would it be to carve up BaC weapons to fit them?
>>
>>44652176
1. It's not essential but the capacity to melts something on arrival is far from disregardable, for the same reason that it's considerable for Chaos Termies much further down the line. Treat it not unlike slapping Melta Bombs on a serge.

2. Not very hard at all, as a complete novice I managed to make passable combies with spare chaos parts back in the '00s.
>>
>>44651918
>making Mori's useable with any gun
They would be.

Bolt pistols are the cheapest option

Serpentas are slightly better and will deflag weaker units doubling wounds over plasma. but are still cheap.

And plasma will cut down marines and termis

Plasma was the go-to because its usually marines vs marines so people shelled out the additional 20 points.

If militia cult horde lists were all the rage you bet you would see serpenta moritats eveywhere.

The rule doesnt need to be complicated. It just needs to not make one option never worth taking, even when you know you're facing the intended target. 2d6(or similar fixes loopholes) or dropping the last line in Chainfire overheat(absolute minimum change) is the simplest and easiest way to do that. While I see where you're going, I dont think anyone wants to do that amount of math

>>44652074
Yes. They've had it so long I forgot they didn't start with it.
>>
>>44652313
Just simply making Plasma not-crap won't fix the other options. Currently Serpentas are considerable as a cheap anti-infantry side arm to a Plasma, and Bolt Pistols are out the picture.

Subtracting one BS from each shot? That shouldn't be hard for anyone younger than eleven. Figuring out the number of shots generated by the pistol-zerker should be both an entry barrier and part of the joy of using the unit. I'm not saying no to 2D6 but it's almost too easy. There has to be some way for the attack to screw up.
>>
>>44652409
>Just simply making Plasma not-crap won't fix the other options
They only have the 3 options

Bolt that no one will take. There's no point really.

Serpenta thats bare minimum, and will actually do better than plasma against T3 5+(or worse) thanks to deflag.

Then plasma, costs three times as much, but has AP2.

Again, the main opponent will be marines. That's why plasmatats were the rage. Serpentas are great if you're facing militia or the like. It's all about the selecting the right tools for the job, not making every tool right for the job.

The other option than plasma, the serpenta doesnt need a fix. The wonky chainfire rule that functions like an Age of Sigmar rule, while thematically awesome, has to change.


If they had access to archeotec pistols those would be all the rage now.

Lucifexes would be sweet too.
>>
>>44652635
>>44652409
>>44652313
Weren't Plasmatats nerfed?
>>
>>44650597
I'm confused. Do they get to choose their warlord trait, or do they have one already? It's not stated that have one.
Does that mean manus' give it will not die to tanks and FNP for troops as a trait?
>>
>>44652635
There's reason to make ANY option worth taking. That's what makes a game great, lots of viable and balanced options. It's what makes this errate document so good, making unpopular items viable again.

I don't recall players that use moritats having to grow a moustache and shout to use them to full effect. What else makes them AoS-like?

Archaeotech pistols are deliberately limited to Praetors, and would require some serious rules buggery to balance a twin-linked gun of that power. I'd like more pistols as well but it's not as simple as making explicitly master gear more broadly available, or poaching guns from other factions. Make the guns we already have work.
>>
>>44652701
You don't get a Warlord Trait, all the special abilities Primarchs grant their armies more than make up for having a Walord Trait. Hence:

>[The Primarch] does not roll randomly for Warlord Traits (these will have been included in their own unique abilities).
>>
>>44652701
That rule suggests that they each have their own Warlord Trait, however, they don't appear to have one labelled as such (though they all have rules that certainly look like traits).
>>
>>44652767
*not having a Warlord trait.
>>
>>44652688
That's acknowledged in the middle of those two posts. The other guy is also aware of that as indicate prior in the conversation.
>>
>>44652906
Forgive me. I am a retard
>>
>>44652728
>What else makes them AoS-like
The chance for near-infinite shots. People like to think things like "Law of Averages" are real, but each die roll is a completely separate chance. Out of all the rules in 30k and 40k, why is there one that can generate up to a million or more hits?

>Make the guns we already have work.
They do. It chain fire overheat thats the problem.

The additional ones i mentioned were for fun.

>>44652688
They were. That's why I'm using past tense.
>>
>>44653026

AoS doesn't have any recursion mechanics on attacks.
>>
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>>44653145
>Silly rule mechanic is silly
>>
>>44652284
Ah, but 28 points for 4 melta shots (and losing the TL on the bolters), is that worth it?

And definitely time to go buy some BaC terminator arms. I'll assemble all the biz and then buy the rest of the terminator from FW.
>>
>>44653217

It's not raising a cup to get a unit buff or riding an imaginary horse, it's shooting repeatedly until you miss as inspired by Cypher.

If the point is that you don't like the rule so you felt like you needed to compare it to some unrelated thing you don't like, you might as well have called it Hitler.
>>
>>44653026

I don't think you understand how unbelievably unlikely that is to occur, and if it does that sort of luck should be rewarded.
>>
>>44653467
>until you miss as inspired by Cypher
>>44652635
>while thematically awesome
>>44653467
>It's not raising a cup to get a unit buff or riding an imaginary horse
No voice acting but it is a possibility of near infinite shots. Put that in with autowin screaming bells, lists that autowin by being composed of terrain, and the like.

It's like you stopped trying win and just want to keep argu-oh. Ohhhhh. Okay.
>>
>>44653623

If getting near infinite shots was of any real concern then bolt pistols should be just as good as plasma since they'll fail enough armor saves to lose the entire unit.

You might as well complain about terminators being able to save literally every save in a game?
>>
>>44653623

Are you high?
>>
>Missing the Point Edition
>>
>>44653959

We got the point, your point is over exaggerated and stupid.
>>
>>44652936
Maybe I will, maybe I won't.

>>44653026
Mechanisms for infinite hit generation have existed in 40K and Fantasy long before AoS and still do. Nothing about that kind of ruling defines AoS, nevermind why AoS is bad.

You yourself admitted that Bolt Pistols and Serpentas are weak.
>>
>>44653217
Your argument for why the mechanic was silly was that it reminded you of AoS.

>>44653307
Not only is that unnecessary, two or even just one melta or plasma can go a long way in such a unit - if it will knock most or all of a Land Raider or half off a superheavy then arguably yes, even for a full 28pts. But like meltabombs, it's rare that you'll need them in your list.
>>
>>44654130
>You yourself admitted that... Serpentas are weak.
Not even once

>>44654003
>subjective>objective
You got me there tg

>>44654130
>Mechanisms for infinite hit generation have existed
Precedence does not equate to acceptability. People have been braining each other with sticks since there were people and sticks. Doesn't mean it's ok.

I compare it to AoS because it's more contemporary and known for unrealistic, gimmicky, and silly rules

What does a rule who's mechanic can keep generating hits with hard cap on the total number of possible hits fall under?
>>
>Lionel Johnson was poet who wrote "The Dark Angel" a poem about his dark secret, that he is gay

Was the Lion gay?
>>
>>44654364
No when they made up chapter names they mostly did the A and B random shit and the picked what sounded cool
So dark angels blood angels as opposed to black or red Angels
Once they had the name they then noticed there was a poem and added the writer without doing literary criticism until it was too late and set in stone
>>
>>44654286


Limited by probability. Plasmas have a 1/3rd chance of failing per shot. You're sperging out over nothing
>>
>>44654446

So, short answer, yes, the Lion is very gay.
>>
>>44654286
Fair enough, you have advocated dual Serpentas for some reason. You provide the reasons why this is a bad idea yourself - AP5 and less targets are in the minority in 30K and for its cost twin-Serpenta Moritats are not particularly effective, compared to the only slightly more expensive Plasma that (could) wipe out terminators.

That's very good, but you'd have to provide a reason why infinite hit generation is a hit bad thing for that analogy to hold. The potential for a silly string of shots is part of the charm, especially given its unreliability. This is from someone who believes it should be reformed, incidentally.

>realism
>Warhammer
I'm have a few to drink tonight and even I am wondering if you're high at the moment.

Fun?
>>
>>44654482
Well he sort of is and isn't. He's right that Moritats do need a reassessment, and he fully acknowledges that plasma pistols are unusable as-is (who doesn't?). But he does some to have some weird allergy about shot recursion.
>>
>>44654364
>>44654550
Shit nigga, were any of them not gay?
>>
>>44654814

The Emperor probably made them all gay with some sort of "close brotherhood" thing in mind, and because their penises would destroy any women they used them on. And he likely didn't want Primarchs reproducing.
>>
>>44655255
I don't know, the Space Wolves seem like they get a lot of tail
>>
>>44656019
Space Wolves get all the bitches
>>
>>44656053
They mean female dogs.
>>
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>>44656137
>>
>>44656181
I thought Space Wolves was the joke.
>>
Still waiting for an Errata that removes Unwieldy from Dorn's sword.
>>
>>44656462
Dorn needs way more buffs then that, he does jack shit for the army and has no real focus as he is horrible in close combat and has a bunch of CC bonus but also buffs your backfield but not too much. Dorn is weird and useless.
>>
Evening folks!

Would you mind looking at an Emperor's Children list I'm trying to put together? I'm basically looking for a semi-competitive list for play at local stores and with friends. I put it together with Army Builder - the Apothecaries are technically a detachment but they're pre-attached.

Emperor's Children (2500)
Pride of the Legion RoW

HQ (1)

Captain Sault Tarvitz (135)

Troops [4]

21x Legion Tactical Squad (345)
> 18x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades
> 1x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Legio Vexilia
> 1x Sergeant - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades
> 1x Apothecary - Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades

21x Legion Tactical Squad (345)
> 18x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades
> 1x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Legio Vexilia
> 1x Sergeant - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades
> 1x Apothecary - Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades

10x Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (335)
> 6x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs
> 2x Space Marine - Heavy Bolter w/ Suspensor Web, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs
> 1x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Legio Vexilia
> 1x Sergeant - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Phoenix Spear, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs, Artificer Armor
> 1x Rhino - Twinlinked Boltgun

10x Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (330)
> 6x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs
> 2x Space Marine - Heavy Bolter w/ Suspensor Web, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs
> 1x Space Marine - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Legio Vexilia
> 1x Sergeant - Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs, Artificer Armor

To be Continued...
>>
>>44656644
Just like in fluff!
>>
>>44656757

Fast Attack [2]

Xiphon Pattern Interceptor (225)
> 2 TL Lascannons, Xiphon Rotary Missile Launcher, Ground Tracking Auguries, Chaff Launcher, Armoured Cockpit


Xiphon Pattern Interceptor (225)
> 2 TL Lascannons, Xiphon Rotary Missile Launcher, Ground Tracking Auguries, Chaff Launcher, Armoured Cockpit

Heavy Support [3]

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (210)
> Neutron Laser Beam, Heavy Bolter, Armoured Ceramite

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175)
> TL Accelerator Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolters, Armoured Ceramite

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175)
> TL Accelerator Autocannon, 2x Heavy Bolters, Armoured Ceramite
>>
>>44656774
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
FUCKING FAG WORLD
>>
>>44650597
So it says no force may include more than a single primarch. Does that mean that if you are playing a 2v2 game each side can only have 1 primarch?
>>
>>44658402
How useful are volkite calivers? I really want a unit with some dethrays for the hell of it.
>>
>>44656757
Thanks for letting us know individually that all your marines have grenades. Really helpful.
>>
Is there a scan of the Mechanicum Taghmata book? It doesn't seem to be in any of the links in the OP.
>>
Hey, I'm just looking into 30k. What's the best option for a shooty legion? Or if I want real dakka, will I have to go for a Solar Auxilia army or a Mechanicus army?
>>
>>44632297
>>44632526
tl;dr Camba Diaz could easily have survived the Heresy and gone on to be the Chapter Master (or other veteran) of a successor chapter without it necessarily being a Second Founding successor. He could easily have survived despite little mention of where exactly he went.

Forge World touches on the logistics successor chapter creation in the Badab War books.

For example, the first chapter master of the Executioners (a Third-Founding Imperial Fists successor chapter) was Fafnir Rann, who (while not an original Terran from the Unification Wars) was a captain-equivalent during the Heresy (and gets minor mentions from time-to-time in modern Heresy fluff).

The thing is, not only first-founding chapters have successors (Executioners for example have two of their own), and when a new chapter is formed, gene-seed is not enough; the parent chapter donates some of their own veterans and relics to form the command and traditions of the new chapter (you can't just get a thousand marines ex nihilo, you need some experts no matter how much geneseed you have).

Point is, someone like Diaz could easily have remain a Captain with the 'Fists and become a chapter master of a new successor in a founding later than the second, or even been seconded to another successor as a captain and then become the chapter master (or just captain) of one of their successors much later. Don't assume he died just because he's not the chapter master of a 'Fists second founding chapter.
>>
>>44654446
>without doing literary criticism until it was too late and set in stone
The Rock was a local gay bar.

GW were just making a joke and a reference. Same as Konrad and his Batman/Heart of Darknessness.
>>
>>44656774
Perturabo, please stay and stay stay.
>>
>>44651269
I feel like all-yellow is easier than black+yellow, since you can use a white undercoat and ink/shade your way up to yellow.
>>
>>44654364
The point is that he has a secret, doesn't really matter what it is.
>>
>>44659958
Prime the pads white and the armor black yo
>>
>>44658586
They work well as backfield scoring. I felt the same way and made a squad. They're fun and quality.
>>
Quick question - what's the best Legion to take as an allied detachment for a Militia or Cult army, representing some Space Marine overseers? I was thinking Sons of Horus but I'm guessing their special rule for outnumbering doesn't count random human mooks?
>>
>>44659742
>The Rock was a local gay bar.

Is there any evidence of this, because I've never found any.
>>
Built a 2500 list with what I have from two BaC boxes. Please shit on it, I'm new.

Praetor, Cataphractii Armor, Chainfist, 150 pts

20 x Legion Tactical Squad, 19 Marines, Close Combat Weapons Added, Vexilla, 1 Sergeant with Artificer Armor...310 pts

20 x Legion Tactical Squad, 19 Marines, Close Combat Weapons Added, Vexilla, 1 Sergeant with Artificer Armor...310 pts

5 x Tactical Support Squad, Plasma Guns, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Rhino, 220 pts

5 x Terminator Squad, Cataphractii Armor, 1 Chainfist, 3 Power Fists, Sergeant with Sword, Teleport Transponder...215 pts

5 x Terminator Squad, Cataphractii Armor, 1 Chainfist, 3 Power Fists, Sergeant with Sword, Teleport Transponder...215 pts

2 x Apothecarion Detachment, Artificer Armor...110 pts

5 x Heavy Support Squad, Heavy Bolters, Hardened Armor, Sergeant has Artificer Armor, Rhino...205 pts

Rogal Dorn...385 pts

2500/2500
>>
>>44661661
Shit forgot to mention, obviously Imperial Fists and Pride of the Legion RoW
>>
>>44661661
Is this really 2500?
>>
>>44661661
For hat you have, starting out. It'll do.

You'll want AP2 melee on your termi sarges for challenges.

Also if you should want more termis in the future, or melee oriented, consider tartaros pattern, they can sweeping advance now, and give them storm shields. IF with Tartaros/SS are going to be the new hotness.
>>
>>44662079
Thanks for the advice, what would you think about nixing the tactical and heavy support squads and one 20 man blob and doing 2 x 10 veterans with two heavy bolters a piece in rhinos? Might be cool for outflank or sniper special rules. Basically I just really fucking love bolters and heavy bolters.
>>
>>44641624
No I'm Alpharius
>>
>>44640958
Dorn still has an unwieldy sword... Come on forgeworld. Nobody's going to use him with that hunk of junk
>>
>>44660501
Word Bearers. Ez.
>>
Iron Hands may have good rules, but they're a shit legion. And Dorn will forever be Lord Braindead the 2nd.
>>
>>44662259
IF Vets love sniper tactics and heavy bolters. BS5, Precision Shot, mini-rending. It's good stuff.

>>44662329
True, they didn't fix Coraxs fighting style either.
>>
>>44658402
Depends if you and your opponents decide that each side is considered a force. Personally, if it were a 2v2 and each player brought 2000 points I'd say each player could field a primarch as long as there were no duplicates.
>>
>>44662393
Would you put them in a Rhino to start the game or just keep them in cover?
>>
>>44662455
Starting off, keep them safe in the rhino-bunker and have them shoot the two heavy bolters out the top hatch. Then claim objectives later.
>>
>>44662477
Awesome. And how necessary is Rogal Dorn in a 2500 or 2000 point game?
>>
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So, I got one of these from a guy I know. No weapons.

From what I've seen online, CCW conversions look pretty crap, so I need to go full ranged. Its got a pair of (heavy?) bolters on the nose. So my equipment will most likely build around those. Should I give it some twin-linked weapon by mounting one gun on each strut or maybe give it a havoc launcher (should go fine with the bolters) on one strut and a volkite culverin on the other? I've been looking at using a spare BaC missile launcher and an infantry culverin.
>>
>>44660259
Awesome! I will just go ahead and make a squad of them.
>>
>>44641547
Big enough buff to Phoenix Terminators to make me want to field them, so I'm glad.
>>
>>44656757
>>44656797
>Saul Tarvitz
>semi-competitive
ayy lmao

Props to you if you like his fluff and want to use him, but he's quite shitty. For 125 points you can take a naked praetor with a paragon blade and he's already better than Saul.

Pride of the legion is quite pointless since you have 2 free elite slots, already got 2 compulsory troops and veteran tacs already have implacable advance (check the FAQ). Consider making room for a legion champion so you can use maru skara for more movement on turn 1 and guaranteed turn 2 reserves for your xiphons.

Also fix your formatting holy shit, we don't need to see all that duplicate and mandatory shit.
>>
How well does militas & cults stand up to marine armies? Been thinking of starting a milita army
>>
I know a friend made a list at 1500 that puts ~350 dudes on the table with zealot and rending/fear it chews through about anything I can think of at that point level. So yeah, I'd say there all right but at high points levels they need more support otherwise a single glaive is all they need to bring.
>>
can anyone tell me that are the approximate dimensions of the Dracosan?
>>
>>44661661
Doesn't really need Pride of the Legion.

Dorn doesn't make any sense so don't bother with him.

Take a Teleporter Transponder with the Praetor.

Take some ranged anti-tank instead of Dorn.

Heavy support squads work well but some tanks might be nicer.
>>
Anyone know if there's scans of the new masterclass book out yet?
>>
Any word from Scananon? Is he still working on the two red books?
>>
>>44654364
Well one of the Primarchs is surely a closeted homosexual. Lion would be a candidate. Fulgrim was openly bi. I could see Perturabo being an angry repressed fag too. Maybe Corax..
>>
>>44662505
He's not. If you want to take him go for it, but he's not the greatest in terms of quality.
>>
So is a Delegatus Consul worth taking as my Warlord in a <1k points game? Like, running Veterans as Troops and all.
>>
>>44667540
You can use any Rite of War with a Delegatus, so you don't need to use his extra one. And it's basically a cheaper HQ, which can be very handy in Zone Mortalis games, as you'd like more points in your actual dudes.
>>
Revised my Imperial Fists list a bit, this is what I came up with for 2000 points with my two BaC boxes. I know it's lacking in tanks and I'll have to wait a few months to get a Sicaran or Venator.

Praetor, Cataphractii Armor, Teleport Transponder, Chainfist, RoW: Pride of the Legion...160 pts

20 x Legion Tactical Squad, 19 Marines, Close Combat Weapons Added, Vexilla, 1 Sergeant with Artificer Armor and Power Fist...325 pts

5 x Terminator Squad, Cataphractii Armor, 1 Chainfist, 3 Power Fists, Sergeant with Power Fist, Teleport Transponder...220 pts

5 x Terminator Squad, Cataphractii Armor, 1 Chainfist, 3 Power Fists, Sergeant with Power Fist, Teleport Transponder...220 pts

10 x Veteran Squad, Legion Vexilla, 2 x Heavy Bolters, Sergeant with Artificer Armor and Power Fist, Tactics: Sniper, Rhino...310 pts

10 x Veteran Squad, Legion Vexilla, 2 x Heavy Bolters, Sergeant with Artificer Armor and Power Fist, Tactics: Sniper, Rhino...310 pts

1 x Apothecarion Detachment, Apothecary with Artificer Armor...55 pts

2 x Contemptor Dreadnought Talon, Extra Armor, 1 x Kheres Assault Cannon/ 1 x Dreadnought CCW each...400 pts

2000/2000
>>
Hey guys I'm just getting into 30k and have a question regarding marks of power armour. A friend of mine was nice enough to buy me some shoulder pads for the Thousand Sons army i'm planning on doing. There's enough MkIV to outfit my tactical and veterans But the remaining pads are MkII and Mk III. Was it Common for different patterns of armour to be mixed? I figure It might suit the sons post Prospero since they took a heavy beating and it could explain some of their troops needing to salvage what armour they could.

For example would it be uncommon to have a Praetor in say MkIV with MkIII shoulder pads or backpacks. I want to build this army fluffy so if this was uncommon during the heresy I figure i'll just save them for later when I eventually pick up some MkII/MkIII armour. Thanks for the help!
>>
>>44668518
Mixing armor bits is fine. Several of the color plates in the books show mixed armor. Basically represents field repairs.
>>
That's a good source of AA for legions?
>>
>>44668751
Heavy Support with Flakk missiles or a Deredeo/Contemptor Mortis Dread
>>
>>44668751
Deredeo Dreads (with accelerator cannons are basically dedicated AA)
Contemptor Mortis Dreads
HS Squads with Flakk Missiles

Xiphon Interceptors are probably pretty good as well, though a little more finicky with the reserve rolls and all that.
>>
How much of a deal is it if my Marines have 25mm bases instead of the new 32mm ones?
>>
>>44668642
Awesome thanks.
>>
>>44668518
Shoulder pads are not a problem, there's so many variants for even one mark, that claiming one pad is "mark X only" is pretty moot. I think the only distinct style is the Mk. 5 and 6 pads with no trim. But I've seen both with trimmed pads as well, so it's a moot point.

Backpacks might be a bit different. Of course you can come up with explanations and custom armour types, but suits prior to mark 6 weren't really designed with modularity and "take part from X and put it on Y" in mind.
>>
>>44668789
>>44668809
Would regular mortis do? What's the best gun option for a mortis AA platform?
>>
>>44668958
The regular Mortis also gets Helical Targetting Array (which grants Skyfire and Interceptor if it's stationary), which is the important part.

As for which weapon is best, I imagine 2 twin-linked Autocannons is the best balance between rate of fire and damage output.
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>>44668867
It's not a big deal
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>>44670814
Rainbow attack! The ship's prow looks like it's made of plastic.
>dat dual-wielding World Bearer tho
>>
>>44656757
Everyone else has said everything that needs to be said. Have you ever seen anyone else write a list before?
>>
>>44661661
It seems to be a rule that new anons that say "feel free to abuse me, I know I'm new" are the only ones whose lists approach usability. Shitting is a 40K thread behaviour, but ignoring that for a moment such posts are among the least likely to merit a thrashing.

I like this list, as its raw infantry prescence isn't central to most 30K marine lists. Chief concerns are the vulnerability of those two rhinos (and why a Heavy Support squad has one at all . . .) and the lack of anti-armour outside of some melee and plasma guns. Dorn is poor by Primarch standards but being a Primarch, you're at least matching any non-Primarch opponent in any case.
>>
>>44662393
Corax's hax survivability currently balances that out. I'm not a Raven Raver but it seems okay to me.

What I'd like to know is, how much is Corax used by RG players relative to Kurze's use by Night Lords?
>>
>>44670814
>Dual wielding chainswords

Feels good to be a heretic
>>
>>44647948
Their theme isn't always totally clear, since they had a pretty even split between Terrans and Cthonians. The Cthonian born members will have pretty much all been gangers and post apocalyptic road warriors, resulting in things like the chaotic, disorganised Reaver gangs and the taking of grisly trophies from defeated enemies, as well as the legions general reputation for brutal, unforgiving and murderous tactics.

The Terran borns meanwhile usually followed the regimented, ordered and clear traditions of the pre-Unity legions. Where the Cthonians would indicate rank with glyphs, topknots and mirror-disc necklaces, the Terrans would use standardised pauldron markings, helmet plumes and command cloaks. Where Cthonians would mark notable kills with the trophy-racks and skull fetishes that would later dominate the Black Legion, Terrans would use kill hashes or markings on their standards.

I like to show a clear visual divide between the two sides - in the SoH force that I will (eventually) finish building the Veteran squads and Reaver gangs are clearly Cthonian, while the heavy support and Breacher squads are Terran.
>>
>>44671628
I play Raven Guard and I struggle to find a usage for Corax. He's good at.... getting in the face of HS squads and fucking them up I guess?
>>
Is Kor Phaeron any good for his cost,it seems his major weakness is T3 which seems like it's easily averted by sticking him with a bunch of Cataphracti Termies

Also it seems like WB with Daemons can lay down some serious psychic dakka
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>>44672532
Yeah that's basically about it. It's a useable Lictor.
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>>44659742
Yes but I mean the legion/chapter name came first
Then they looked up the poem and added that shit
>>
>>44663607
They're actually OK, but you need a LOT of models for a typical 30k game (2.5k-3k).
>>
>>44665268
Scanon's doesn't get to go to events because he's in a country that's too far away. So he's not going to get a copy before they ship next week - in fact, it's be at least a week after that before he actually receives anything he ordered, and even that's assuming he's pre-ordered it this weekend.
>>
>>44671577
I appreciate the response. I revised my list a bit here:

>>44668318

taking into consideration that Dorn isn't the best of primarchs and I don't even have a model proxy yet, I dialed back to 2000 points until I can get my hands on some of those juicier resin tanks to fill up to 2500+...I tried to keep the infantry presence real with the 20 man blob + apothecary, but though about using two Vet squads since I can get 4 heavy bolters between the two of them. The two rhinos may be vulnerable but I thought it might be smart to have them inside to make them immune to small arms fire the first turn.
>>
>>44675863
Yeah I saw, it's pretty acceptable now given that you're working within the limits of BaC sets and such. I'd like to see it in action.
>>
>>44675404
You can play heresy at 1750pts if your group is ok with it, it was designed for 1750-3000pts after all.
>>
>>44670967
I rather like it. It reminds me of 2'nd editions when codex covers actually looked like metal album covers, unlike the ones today.
>>
Do the primarchs have navels? Nipples? Since they're lab-created artificial beings I'm thinking no...
>>
>>44677137
Of course they do, why else would Blood Angels armor have nipples? (But seriously - yes, they're in our DNA and not dependent on the birth process). And vat-grown babies might still use an umbilical cord.
>>
>>44667540
You can't take the delegatus below 1k. You have to have at least 1k points per model with Master of the Legion. SO no RoWs below 1k.

>>44671628
I use him to scour scoring units. You can make an RG list thats mostly shooting thats better than one with dedicated CC options. So I take Corax in fun lists when I want to use Furies and stuff.

>>44672532
>>44673660
Corax can kill up to 15 marine a a turn. The mans a blender. He stalks behind you're front line an minces anything he touches.
>>
>>44676777
FUCK YES! That's what I like to read! Fuckin jetbike chaplain flying in the milieu! I am hammered!
>>
>>44641524
>dude, I'm so fucking high right now...
>>
>>44681107
Reason number 4 that Corax will be wearing a helmet when I get him.
>>
>>44640958
>Once a Drop Pod lands, all passengers must disembark and no models can embark for the rest of the game.

Man I'm really glad I never ended up making a Night Lords army.
>>
>>44681297
True that

Not sure which though. I like the idea of a "Closed Helm", like what GK helmets look like. Size worries me and I don't think my sculpting skills are good enough. Maybe just buy a tiny raven skull ha.
>>
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>>44681942
yeah pretty miffed on this, give us cool 30k legion pods, take them away just because...........oh wait they want to you buy dreadclaws instead, silly me
>>
>>44682664
I'd be ok with it if dreadclaws aren't 100 points a pop. You might as well just mass infiltrate the army now.
>>
>>44682964
Sigh, such a bummer. what the fuck am I going to do with my night lords now apart from infiltrate like some dirty alpha legion
>>
>>44676470
Do you think people would care if I used an 40k Emperor's Champion model for Sigismund? Not a big fan of the Forgeworld model, big fan of his rules.
>>
>>44675460

Actually I usually get someone to pick up a book at the event and then airmail it to me, so it gets here as fast as possible. That's one reason why my Scans usually come relatively quickly after release. Though I have only just ordered the HH Masterclass, and I intend to do it before the next HH Book.

On that note, expect Isstvan Campaign Legions within the next two or three days, depending. I want to try and complete it tomorrow if possible, but given the format I have to work with these days that may be a tad optimistic.
>>
>>44662393

I'm missing something here, what's wrong with Corax's fighting style?
>>
>>44679538
Can't you f'in read the errata?

entry in the Legiones Astartes Crusade Army list) and may take a Legion Command Squad. In addition, the Consul must always be the army's Warlord, unless their Legion's Primarch is also taken. A Legion Delegatus may be taken in armies below the normal 1,000 points threshold for taking models with the Master of the Legion special rule.
So yes you can
>>
>>44640958

Does the restriction for the Delagatus seem wonky to anyone else? It say you can't take a Praetor or Lord of War in your Primary Detachment then later goes on to stipulate that the Delagatus must always be the Warlord, unless the Legion's Primarch is present. This last bit seems unnecessary if you can't even take a LoW in the first place.
>>
>>44685186
Copy-paste error I imagine, but it helps to block as much as possible for those that like to abuse RAW.
>>
>>44684090
You could, I dunno, still use drop pods but jump out of them right away as was always intended?
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>>44684467
Assuming that you add weapon chains and paint him like siggy, it should be fine.
>>
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Updated pics of my SW that I also posted in the WIP thread.
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>>44686608
>>
>>44686608
>>44686622
neat bro
>>
What kind of walls did Dorn fap to? I ask because I think walls are porn for Dorn.
>>
>>44686622
>>44686608
I much prefer the old pre-Heresy colour.
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>>44687308
Isn't the pre-Heresy armours bright grey?
>>
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>>44687663
The FW art I've seen is grey with a slight bluish tint (at least to my eye). Haven't seen any actual minis yet.

Old GW art has Heresy era SW colours as grey with black and red. It's what I'm going to do once their rules come out.
>>
>>44684898
Thanks man! Im really keen to see their new terrain tutorials in there
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>>44687701
I still don't get how 30k pack markings work.
>>
Is it mandatory to take a lord of war at 2k points?

I'm making a 2k IH army and thinking of expanding to 2500 with an Lord of war? at those points, what LoW is best? What I was thinking was taking a typhoon (as it is slightly cheaper than those others below 500) and adding a sicaran tank in order to get my 500 pts? Is it a viable idea?
>>
>>44668958
Regular Mortis is actually pretty decent with the twin-las option. Any lower strength/higher burst weapon you take is going to get blown out by a Contemptor with Kheres assault cannons, or a Sicarian if you don't care about AA.
>>
>>44687839
No, LoW is optional but most people take one because of Primarchs. It's perfectly viable to go with either a fuckhuge tank or more regular goodstuff instead.
>>
>>44687878
Gotta keep that in mind. Quad laser is actually way more doable for me than a regular rifleman.
>>
>>44687720
If you want to see what's in the FW master class book -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKNqrcCgQKc
>>
So how does everyone deal with AV 15?
>>
so Autilion Skorr for $58, ye or ne?
>>
>>44688718
Medusae and prayers, or failing that some chainfists.
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>>44688784
nay, chinaman sells it for like $8.
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>>44688860
Might want to order a couple to get a good cast, though--the one I got was sort of squished.
>>
>>44688784
It's just a mediocre model of a marine with an axe. Proxy it or something.
>>
>>44688784
Nay. Convert your own, personalization is one of the most rewarding parts of the hobby.
>>
>>44688784
It's not worth $58 but if you don't care about price then go for it.
>>
>>44688718
Haywire or melta bombs.
>>
Looking into a mass-infantry, bolter-heavy Imperial Fists list with my 2 BaC boxes, and today a friend offered to give me his unpainted Emperor's Champion for free that I could convert to be used as a Sigismund. So my question is: how do you use Sigismund? Where do you put him? I don't have a Spartan or Dreadclaw yet, but I'm open to other suggestions.
>>
does anyone have the updated reading map for the horus heresy books?
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>>44687308
Even their post-heresy color is unclear. The photos are always blue but the text always says gray.
>>
>>44693606
And even so I wouldn't object to the idea that different great companies of Space Wolves could have their own shades of grey.
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>>44684919
He was made when blind generated a check every time it hit. So Corax, whi can have up to 10 CC attacks on the charge, would blind other primarchs then shadowwalk and dance around them while they only hit corax on 6's. Then the Blind nerf happened and Corax went from murdermachine, fitting his fluff as the only primarch that could 1v1 horus unarmed and draw other than vulkan who won that event.

Also the wording itself is wierd, shadowwalk lasts a whoel turn, but scourge and deathblow can be selected every phase.

>>44685025
Ahh thats brand new. Wasn't the case before.
>>
>>44693606
Rogue trader they were more blue than grey
Then changed to more grey then blue
Crusade they were supposed to be grey as seen on prospero burns cover
Having said that paint schemes have changed as JewW change their paint sets
Dark Angels now use same green as salamanders instead of the GOAT velvet green
>>
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Word bearer list 2500

HQ-400
175: Zardu Layak
105: Legion Centurion-Chaplain, Artificer Armour, Retractor Field
120 Herald of Tzeentch, Disk of Tzeentch, Mastery lv3

ELITES-390
95: Apothecary x2, Augury Scanner x1
60: Legion Rapier Weapons Battery x1, Quad Mortar x1
235 Gal Vorbak x5, Power Mace 1x, Martyr with Artificer Armour and Power Fist

TROOPS-1020
300: Legion Tactical Squad 20x (+10), 20x +1CCW, Sergeant with Power Sword
300: Legion Tactical Squad 20x (+10), 20x +1CCW, Sergeant with Power Sword
330: Ashen Circle 10x (+5), Power Axe 2x, Iconoclast with Artificer Armour, Phosphex Bomb 1x, Dark Channeling
90: Pink Horrors 10x

HEAVY SUPPORT-690
175: Legion Sicaran Battle Tank, Sponson Lascannons
175: Legion Sicaran Battle Tank, Sponson Lascannons
340: Legion Spartan Assault Tank, Laser Destroyers, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

400 HQ
390 Elites
1020 Troops
690 Heavy
2500 Total

Zardu joins Gal Vorbak in Spartan and charge up the front. Apothecary goes in each tactical, Chaplain joins 1. Rapier targets blob squads hiding out back or GEQ. Ashen Circle target Elite support squads, while Heralds and Horrors summon more deamons. Sicarans are there because they are awesome.
>>
>>44693668
>>44693606
Speaking of SW paintjobs, if I did a grey paintjob similar to >>44687701, what would be a good colour for the mask of the helmet? I've been toying with giving them a bit more colour with painting the masks. I'm working on mostly Mk. IVs and VIs, so the mask is clearly defined as separate piece from the rest of the helmet. White or metal, perhaps? Don't know yet if I should give it to all or just sergeants.
>>
>>44694356
>Dark Angels now use same green as salamanders instead of the GOAT velvet green
>DA no longer DA Green
What foul sorcery is this? So glad I still have old paint left over.
>>
>>44694421
Perhaps a lighter grey could well.
>>
>>44693599
This one?
>>
>>44694421
Could always go with red or black.
>>
>>44694419
Hmm ok.
Why the disc on the Herald? Is it not joining the Horrors?
No Burning Lore on your Chaplain? I figure, if you are tight on points, switching 1 ML from the herald to the Chaplain is worth it for potential biomancy combat buffs.

I'd have Zardu slogging it with a Tactical Squad so he can get some use of his psychic powers. He's not all that great in combat and you've got a chaplain to give the Gal Vorbak Zealot anyway. Also, as far as I can tell, Sacrifice does allow FnP saves for a good laugh.
>>
>>44693209

He's a giant shit wrecker that you put in a squad of other shit wreckers. Storm eagle or land raider mandatory
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How did the Thousand Sons fight? All I'm able to find out was that they were pretty much all psykers, but they must have had some other speciality? The reason why I'm asking is because I want to start my 30k Army now, but I don't want to buy anything unfluffy. Anyone got an idea?
>>
>>44695220
All the Legions could deploy in basically any configuration. Until we get the book with additional info we don't really know their preference other than having an absolutely massive Librarius.
>>
>>44695220
Buy marines for starters.
>>
>>44694886
He flies around and summons units or uses Divination. No reason for him to join the Horrors.
Burning Lore Chaplain I've run Telepathy before and just didn't prove strong enough. Don't want to reduce the great effectiveness of the Herald for this.
I'll try the Chaplain in the Gal Vorbak instead as you said. Should prove stronger. Fearless and Hatred should prove quite powerful. Zardu will serve as a Summoning outlet, and be crowd support in the 20man. Will have to see if the FnP works on that.
Thanks.
Anything else?
.
>>
Any chances GW will make more plasric stuff for 30k? Some plastic mk2 kits would be pretty sweet.
>>
>>44695647

I think it's possible but I heard they're keeping 30k with forgeworld and are not trying to take over the good thing they have going there. Some more supplementary plastic kits would be sweet though
>>
>>44695647
Don't expect it anytime soon. FW is still the main producer of HH product while the Specialist Product Design Studio, the one who did BaC, are now busy redoing old specialist games like Blood Bowl, BFG, Necromunda etc. Once the individual items from BaC become available in separate boxes it'll probably be a while before we see anymore plastic HH.
>>
>>44695220
In the novel it was like brotherhood of psykers
The squad leaders would use the collected psyche power to cast spells etc
The how varies depending on their psychic specialty
Corvidae would find targets and do a lot of off battlefield stuff
Pyrae would throw fire about
There were telekine shields behind which they would shoot
There was the sending of illusions and fear
And so on
>>
>>44695647
I heard forgeworld will start doing plastics themselves
>>
>>44695218
What kind of shitwreckers are we talking about? I kinda want to go with that black paint scheme with yellow shoulderpads and run an IF list as "proto-black templars", would be fun.
>>
>>44695743
So how long will they keep BaC around on the shelves? That box is pretty good value and I suspect if they split it up in boxes I would end up paying more.
>>
>>44695843
You probably heard that because SPDS is Forge World. Box sets from SPDS will be in plastic while expansions will be in resin. Doesn't mean FW is switching over to plastics for anything past BaC.
>>
>>44695893
It's not limited, so as long as it sells or until they figure out it's cheaper to just make the individual boxes.
>>
>>44695220
Like Eldar, I guess.
They prefer misdirection, a manouevrable force, and precision stikes. Corvidae predict stuff on a strategic and tactical level. Illusions and barriers to misdirect by Athanaeans and Raptora. I'm guessing the Pyrae and Pavoni are capable of applying extreme force in a small strike. A Thousand Sons mentions a 'spear' formation several times as well as a focus on preserving their lives (which seems reasonable since they are the smallest Legion). Untalented Legionaires focus on shoring up the weaknesses and playing into the strength of the psyker(s) they accompany.
>>
>>44695889
>What kind of shitwreckers are we talking about

if your fighting someone other than a primarch or Abbaddon in a challenge it's dead. I think he's got a pretty good chance at taking down Lorgar
>>
>>44696272
That's good to know, who should be part of his shitwrecking posse? I've got cataphractii terminators but I'm guessing those are bad because s&p. I also have a bunch of power swords from my BaC box that I could make into Templar Brethren...

Here's a good question: if sigismund joins a deep striking transponder Terminator group, does he get deep strike too? Sounds too good to be true.
>>
>>44696429
Stick him in a Spartan with a flare shield with either Cataphractii's or Templar Bretheren make sure to get the gauntlet for non specialist power fist, move right next to the enemy warlord and cut his head off

>if sigismund joins a deep striking transponder Terminator group, does he get deep strike too? Sounds too good to be true.

Sadly not but look at it this way, if he DS you can't charge and you REALLY want to charge
>>
>>44694886
Burning Lore is rarely used by WB players, as the extra Warp Charge is nice, but only Mastery Level 1 doesn't give good odds for getting what you want.
Zardu should only summon, he's a nice CC buff if he has to be, but don't be aggressive with him.
>>
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>>44642702
>two options
>cost the same
>one is superior

... in your opinion.
>>
>>44684898
Looking forward to the Isstvan book. Didn't mind the look of the LA:CAL version you did even though you were using a different scanner. Thanks for your hard work!
>>
>>44697777
I'm not sure you understand what anon is saying.
>Imdomitus is 2+/5++ with relentless and no sweeping advance.
>Tartaros is 2+/5++ with relentless and sweeping advance.
>>
>>44697344
Speaking of Word Bearers 20 man blobs with CCW backed up with a chaplain seems choppy and will hardly ever fail morale, and considering you have to take a Chaplain normally it seems a good use for him. Is it a good use of points?
>>
>>44698286
I've ran the 20man with Apoth before. I never worried about Ld with WB as the True Believers rule makes me take Ld checks on 3d6 and take 2 lowest.
Chaplain went in before, and was more there because mandatory but he did help out. He likely will do better in the Spartan with Gal Vorbak.
>>
>>44697344
I disagree with that thought process, most Biomancy spells are ok and you are not aiming for a single one to make some synergy happen. Smite is nice to have as well imo.

For all psykers with access to daemonology, only the Tzeentch Herald benefits from more rolls on the table and you are going to get summoning for free anyway.
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