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/wodg/&/cofd/ Chronicles of Darkness...
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Yes, this is still the thread for oWoD discussion.

What would you want to see out of a World or Chronicles of Darkness video game? Hard mode: Not just "Bloodlines for a different splat".

Also, link images to add to the booru, and if anyone has any other Tumblrs or resources, be sure to share them.

-----------------------------------------------
>We have a booru, add things to it! (Be sure to tag well)
urbfan.booru.com
>Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition Kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/deluxe-changeling-the-dreaming-20th-anniversary-ed
>The Onyx Path Official Website
http://theonyxpath.com/
>Drive-Thru RPG, for all your legally-obtained book needs
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/
>A Mega bin, for your less legally-obtained book needs
https://mega.nz/#F!wpB0ib4a!EsAU0AE4ihrNlDWzp3-MIw
>The Chronicles of Darkness Core Book(Which isn't in the Mega link)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Abn1a6PgUCa19KbjdNcmNMWms/view?pli=1MWms/view?pli=1

>Dumb LARP Tumblrs you can't stop reading
http://puttingthevigilinvigilantism.tumblr.com/
http://hedgingyourbets.tumblr.com/
http://atlanteanstupidity.tumblr.com/
http://inthenameofthemoonmoon.tumblr.com/
http://whatshouldvampirescallme.tumblr.com/
http://whathappeninthechantry.tumblr.com/
http://harpiesgonnaharp.tumblr.com/
>>
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Reposting this

Alright fuck me I'm having trouble figuring out what to do with the Manifestations.

I wanted five Unlocks for each Key, but even ignoring the more difficult Keys, that seems harder than expected. Meanwhile I could do like Werewolf and each one is one and one, but that seems a bit too low, since most of the Manifestations couldn't be covered in just one power.

Maybe I should scrap the existing Manifestations and try to break them out into different ones? Werewolf has like 20 Gifts with 5 powers each.

The other option is some Manifestations with two or three powers each and some with six or seven.
>>
>>44575353
>What would you want to see out of a World or Chronicles of Darkness video game?

Focus. As much as one splat varies from another splat, the goals and methods of a video game for that splat should also change. What genre best supports the themes?
>>
>>44575164
>One of their cult has to make the ultimate sacrifice and be ritualistically murdered. Their body becomes the Arisen's new Sahu, and the sacrifice's memories and mindset integrates with the Mummy's. This can be a problem in future risings.
This happened with one of the PCs in Dave's AP before the game began, IIRC.
>>
Reposting this Mage/Dresden Files thing here.
How well would the Mordite Mistfiend fit as a creature from Anwnn?
And for those who haven't heard of Anwnn, it's a Lower Depths realm, mentioned in Summoners. Nothing there has a Pattern, so it devours Patterns in this world to fill up theirs.
There is a Legacy devoted to helping them on the way, the logic being that there is no Lie in Anwnn.

I think the descriptions are reasonably close, yes?
>>
>>44575502
whats a mordite mistfiend? sounds like a mtg card
>>
>>44575567
A Mistfiend is a pretty nasty spirit. It's from the far reaches of existence, and aggressive, hostile to everything, and nearly mindless. The one we saw in the books was infused with Mordite. Mordite is a substance from beyond this world. It utterly destroys anything of this world, or of that of the spirit world, that it comes into contact with, with seemingly no diminishing to itself.

So, it's a huge, evil, cloud of matter-disintegration, that strikes out with tendrils of utter destruction against everything it can see.
>>
>>44575660
Sounds like a pretty standard Abyssal Incursion or lower-depth entity, yeah.
>>
>>44575660
that doesn't sound like an annwyn thing
>>
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If a morality 7 player commits and act of murder and fail the degradation roll, do they fall to morality 6 or 3?
>>
Oh man /tg/ I've got an exciting encounter coming up. My players are going up against a vampire that used to be part of the group, but went rogue. He's a Ravnos that was translated to this nWoD game. Since defecting, he's ghouled and blood-bound all the prostitutes in a whore-house and turned the basement into a weed-grow operation. The weed, however, has all been ghouled as well into mandragora. He's been experimenting, however, and given his decent blood potency and mastery of chimerstry the chronic he grows has strange effects. When it detects prey it releases a pollen that can cause vivid hallucinations, and the vampire himself will be using multiple illusory body doubles. It's gonna get pretty trippy. If they just torch the plants, all the smoke will cause them to not only experience the high of their lives, but also make them addicted to the drug (one of the effects of lacrima). Any ideas that I might want to add?
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>>44576013
You only drop one bit at a time. But that's 1e, and Integrity is better.
>>
>>44576013
6
>>
>>44576065
>>44576070
Thanks, how does Integrity work? I don't have any of the second edition books.
>>
>>44575849
I dunno. Just replace "dissolves" with "removes it from this reality and recreates in Anwnn".
>>
>>44576092
It's very different. And much better.
Grab this, it's free:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/114078/World-of-Darkness-GodMachine-Rules-Update

Despite it being a tad rushed-looking, it's an across-the-board improvement of the game. If you like it, grab the Chronicles of Darkness core book. (It's in the OP).
If you like THAT, pay for the shit.
>>
>>44576092
It's up at the top of the thread.

Basically you roll Resolve + Composure to resist falling, and there's no ladder of sins, just "is this a fucked up thing you did/saw/experienced?"
Passing gives you a long term status effect, while failing gives you a worse long term status effect and you drop Integrity, which means you're more likely to drop Integrity in the future (due to penalties on the roll due to low Integrity)
>>
One of the behind the scenes situations that slowed our progress was that we really spent the year waiting for news of whether the White Wolf properties had been sold; not a total cessation of activity, but a sort of decision making paralysis limbo where we needed and wanted to press forward with our WW licenses, but couldn’t do too much out of concern of being caught short if the new owners decided to pull them from us.
I’ve seen too many companies crash because they had overextended on their licensed projects, and had no intention of Onyx Path getting caught like that.

monday meeting blog is up
>>
Impish Ian Watson, our webmaster and Trinity Continuum major domo, politely mentions that “I’m going to resolve to try to RP more this year, because I don’t want to lose sight of what makes this fun.”

Awww
>>
New Monday Morning Notes: http://theonyxpath.com/2015-heres-how-we-rolled-monday-meeting-notes/

>According to Impish Ian Watson, who loves to compile these sorts of numbers, we released 421 projects in 2015. Now, 399 of them were t-shirts, posters, and wallpapers.

>Demon Storyteller Guide (Demon: The Descent) comes out on Wednesday

>Night Horrors: Conquering Heroes (Beast: The Primordial) is in Redlines

>The Pack (Werewolf: The Forsaken) is in Editing

>Dreams of Avarice (Mummy: The Curse) goes out on Wednesday.
>>
Rollickin’ Rose Bailey, our CofD producer, also says she’ll “Run more games I’m not professionally involved with.”

Come on, run some werewolf, you know you want to.

Mighty Monica Vallentinelli, our marketing consultant and Hunter: the Vigil 2nd developer, shouts out that she’ll “Generate fan enthusiasm!”

Well she's certainly generating fan speculation and jibber jabber.
>>
>>44576553
AND MAGE STILL ISNT UPDATED HOLY FUCK!
Seriously. Whose fault is this?
>>
>>44576573

I'm pretty sure that means "non-WoD games", or at least "I want to take a break from playtesting Cavaliers of Mars".
>>
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Nice cover for Demon Storyteller guide

Looks like a creepy uncle molesting a warforged, tho
>>
>>44576608
The Demon Storyteller Guide is slated to go on sale as an Advance PDF on Wednesday on DTRPG!

>>44576603
Well, you are a mind reader so I'll have to trust you on that
>>
>>44576553
>Two things releasing
Alleiua.

>>44576608
That looks bitchin'
>>
>>44576608

UNCLE TOUCHEY'S NAKED PUZZLE BASEMENT

YOU WON'T HAVE YOUR SHIRT AND YOU'LL CRY
>>
>>44576608
He just discovered one of the great secrets of the God Machine and it's left him shattered.

Aether is the God-Machine's cum
>>
>>44576725
>Aether is the God-Machine's cum
Aether is angel poop.

Like, not even kidding, that's straight up what it is. Angels and Infrastructure use Essence and the byproduct is Aether. It's sewage.
>>
>>44576757

I was about to say. Demons run on basically spiritual Jenkem.
>>
Here's hoping that Changeling: Lost 2.0 starts moving along. And that a lot of the changes to it aren't garbage (Though I suspect they might be)
>>
>>44575353
mandatory "monster mash" jokes
>>
https://youtu.be/lIFE7h3m40U

What are Supernal Emoji like?
>>
>>44576757
Hey, poop makes great compost.
>>
>Dreams of Avarice is out on Wednesday
>FOR KICKSTARTER BACKERS

FUCK ME WITH A CACTUS
>>
>>44576553
>400 pieces of merch in 1 year
Goddamn.
>>
>>44577081
Eh, Hill posting in the last thread eased a lot of my fears.
>>
>>44576553
>Mage: the Awakening Second – Once updated text is in, this will move into the layout queue.
Are you SURE you gave him the goods, Dave?
>>
>>44577198
Yeah, but making teeshirts on Redbubble is super easy.
>>
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>>44577198
The t-shirts are nice, they fold the posters in two, which is awful, I can't see anyone buying wallpapers.
>>
>>44577198

I'm gonna buy a Mummy shirt next paycheck.
>>
>>44577268
>Fold the posters in two
Jesus Christ why
>>
>>44577183

S-someone wil leak it, right?
>>
>>44577468

If it's like any other Kickstarter backer reward, it'll be up for sale in a month or two, and then it will be leaked. Perhaps some kind KS backer soul will leak it early, though.
>>
>>44577183
I'm glad to see people are hype enough about Mummy to be mad over that, at least.

It went pretty ignored for a long time.
>>
>>44577758

I thought the game was trash garbage until Book of the Deceived came out; now it's my favorite WoD game.

/wodg/ hasn't really liked Mummy until a month or two ago, but the Onyx Path forums have had a nice little dedicated community. Hell, one of the guys pledged for a 10k word expansion to the Mummy era!
>>
What exactly is stopping me from using the Stop Exploit multiple times in succession to line up shots and kill enemies before they do anything?
>>
>>44577790
>I thought the game was trash garbage until Book of the Deceived came out; now it's my favorite WoD game.

I've heard this a lot, but haven't read it and can't seem to find it for free anywhere. Anyone got a link?
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>>44577796
The fact that they're Exploits. You can DO it, but enjoy getting a nuclear Assfucking from Angels later.

And the God-Machine will always have more angels than you have yous.
>>
>>44577790
>>44577758
People have been saying this since Mummy came out. Pretty much everyone changed their mind after Book of the Deceived.
>>
>>44577819
But think about it Anon. I can stop time, kill angels, and then run away during stopped time. Celerity ain't got shit on this.
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>>44577805

Be warned; the lore in the book is immensely dense. You'll likely not understand the fiction completely without decent familiarity with Mummy's cosmology first.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gye0lqtr1dn8m5k/Book_of_the_Deceived_%28Final_Download%29_%286489805%29.pdf?dl=0
>>
>>44577250
What did he say?
>>
>>44577830
Before Deceived, I honestly felt like Mummy was an overdeveloped Hunter antagonist book, or a retread of Vampire elders. It didn't jive as personal or relatable enough, and the weirdness of the lore didn't have the quality to back up how impenetrable it felt.

BotD fixed all that.
>>
>>44577858
It's reason enough to give the corebook a proper deep readthrough, then.
>>
>>44577856

Your Cover is gonna get shredded and you're gonna run out of Aether after two or three times.
>>
What the hell kind of supernatural was Emperor Norton?

>Goes bankrupt and disappears
>reappears in San Francisco as "Norton I, Emperor of the United States" and "Protector of Mexico"
>tries to issue all kinds of decrees to people outside his city, including the dissolution of congress and both major us political parties
>they fail
>tries to use his imperial power within the city
>succeeds wildly to the point of defying logic.
>eats at the finest restaurants in the city, has seats reserved for him at every theater performance, received a formal apology from the police chief and widespread support after he was committed for having a mental disorder, was given a military uniform to wear, printed his own fucking money that people accepted, and had his occupation listed in an official US census as "emporer"
>his wikipedia page is really interesting and goes into more detail
>is considered a patron saint of discordianism

My first thought has always been a really powerful Unmada, but he never did anything mad science-y. Somehow changeling seems like it could be involved.
>>
>>44577960
He could just be an Unmada with a nonscientific Aesthetic and lots of dots in Epikrato.
>>
>>44576608
Is that a bad hing? I personally quite like it.
in a sexual way ;)
>>
>>44577885
>>44577830

See, I came from a different place. I was always a Mummy fan, and I was down for everything about it since the early posting days on the blogs, and gave to the Kickstarter. The core came out and I was happy with it. I started running a game I love and still love and run to this day, but I always felt like it needed more. Guildhalls of the Deathless gave me more material to work with, and Book of the Deceived was truly when the line came into its own. By defining a major enemy, it helped define the barriers of what it means to be Arisen, and helped hammer home the themes of the greater game. That it's a well written book helps too. Sothis Ascends continued that hot streak for me, and I am very excited that Dreams of Avarice is finally being released. Jankiness and all, Mummy started as a neat idea and rapidly (or maybe not so rapidly in the case of the Book of the Deceived delay) became one of my favorite nWoD lines.

Now if only there was enough retroactive backers so we could have gotten that Book of Judges...
>>
>>44577960
Mage that just said fuck it
>>
>>44578169

I bet a KS to fund Book of Going Westward could succeed.

Maybe we need a petition. The internet loves those!
>>
The Quiescent were a Legacy that revolved around exclusively practicing subtle magic and going through the world unnoticed.

Now that vulgar magic doesn't exist in 2e, what would they look like?
>>
>>44578332
Mage Illuminati
>>
>>44578332
Subtle Ones, from Mage Core?
>>
>>44578344

The Mage illuminati are equal parts Guardians and Seers.
>>
>>44578332
Mages who use Magic that isn't obviously Supernatural so they don't provoke Dissonance, and don't stretch their powers beyond their capabilities (rarely use more than their free Reach) or mitigate it through yantra?
>>
I really want to like Mage, when I first started reading up on WoD that seemed like the shit I would cream my pants over.

But I just can't get into it and that bothers me.
>>
>>44578306

I figure buying Mummy books and also getting CAS out of his cave would be more effective. In all honesty though, we could probably get it when Mummy 2e comes out in 2045.
>>
>>44578458
Have you tried reading Dave's APs?

That's helped a lot of people who just couldn't get into Mage using the books.
>>
>>44578485
Do you have a link?
>>
>>44578458

I didn't like Mage until I read the Dark Eras preview draft. Modern day wizards? Lame as fuck. Alexandrian wizards dealing with culture clash? Radical.

I also heartily recommend Mage Noir if the game hasn't "clicked" for you yet. It's one of the best 1e books, and is very pleasantly bite-sized.
>>
>>44577980
homebrew get the fuck out
>>
>>44578478

I wish CAS talked to us.
>>
>>44578478
>In all honesty though, we could probably get it when Mummy 2e comes out in 2045
>unironically making this joke when Exalted 3e core still isn't out.

You know nothing of Hell.
>>
>>44578571

Yeah, but Exalted is bad, so it's okay if it gets delayed.
>>
>>44578544
I was responding to the original anon's suggestion that he was a Genius. Cool your jets.
>>
>>44578458
What's your problem with it?
>>
>>44578571

At least you got your backer copy? And the leaks? That's something.

>>44578545

Same. Dude's pretty silent when it comes to the net, huh? He doesn't seem to post all that often when I got the OPP Mummy forum either. That kind of internet silence's got its disadvantages and advantages I suppose.

>>44578508

There's a lot of out of date setting stuff now that Mage 2e is almost upon us, but The Broken Diamond is a good place to start: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?279847-Actual-Play-Mage-The-Awakening-The-Broken-Diamond-%28contains-Reign-of-the-Exarchs
>>
>>44578478

Book of Going Westward is most likely gonna be the first supplement for Mummy 2e, because there's no way in hell they'll add a new 1e book to the schedule.

>tfw waiting until 2018/19 most likely
>>
>>44578508
Sure. This is the first one. Bear in mind that it was done very early in 1e, when there were all of like two supplement books out, so some of the stuff in there conflicts with later book explanations of how some stuff works (the Temenos in this chronicle feels a lot more like the Hisil than it does the Astral, for example). Also note that it'll ruin the Reign of the Exarchs prepackaged chronicle book for you, but if you're not getting into Mage then you wouldn't have ended up using it for your own game anyway:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?279847-Actual-Play-Mage-The-Awakening-The-Broken-Diamond-(contains-Reign-of-the-Exarchs

If you read and enjoy that, he also did a spinoff game with mostly different cast, set in the same setting (a few NPCs from the first game show up in the second, and the events of the first game are past events that occurred in the second game, although very far away, as the first game is set in DC and the second one is in England).

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?375715-Mage-The-Awakening-The-Soul-Cage

If you like that one and you STILL want more, there's also this game, although it's unfinished (and like years behind the actual game by now, as Dave has been busy writing books instead of APs):

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?591295-Mage-the-Awakening-The-Man-Comes-Around
>>
So, I'm strongly considering throwing in a pretty powerful and dangerous antagonist towards my hunter group, a slasher that has been claimed by a spirit of some sort(Most certainly of violence/murder or similar) with the intent of creating a wound in the local area, that said it'd probably be the second strongest big bad the party has faced(The first being a rank 5 angel who isn't directly opposing them) and I'm unsure how to deal with putting it into play, obviously I don't want it to just be a big, nearly impossible fight as that's no fun for anyone.
>>
Given the highly individual circumstances that one would assume would make a Deviant, how likely is it, do you think, that there might be no X/Y axis for the splat? Is it possible to have a game in the CofD mode with no unifying groups, no broad "types" of Deviant?

Could they do a splat where you're just a collection of Dread Powers?
>>
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So are Spirits in Werewolf like the Noise from TWEWY?
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>>44579159
Slashers, especially Scourges, often have a weakness or some sort of bane. Spirits almost always do. Maybe in its haste to claim the Slasher, the interaction between these banes goes wild and there's some secret thing the players can do to easily kill them both.

Or maybe the Slasher was stronger than the spirit thought, and suddenly instead of a Slasher focused to the spirit's ends, you've got a spirit-empowered monster focused to the Slasher's ends.

Depending on the group, they very well could be rescuing a spirit of murder from something even worse.
>>
>>44579241
I...actually quite like that idea, maybe something wherein some kind of "vaguely" benevolent spirit attempted to claim a slasher and instead just empowered it until realizing "I've got no control over this now doubly powerful lunatic, oh god". Given the group, I wouldn't be surprised if they did try to 'redeem' said monster if they realized there was a chance, they're encounters with supernaturals have been vaguely neutral up until the point where it becomes clear talking won't get them what they need.
>>
What needs to happen for a Sleeper to trigger Dissonance? Does he need to sense the offending spell, or his his mere belief that something untoward has happened sufficient?

e.g.
An invisible (Forces to bend light, if it matters) Mage pushes over a Sleeper who stumbles and falls. The Sleeper looks up and around, and sees nobody around, and the distance to cover is too great for anyone to have run.

Would this trigger Dissonance?

Furthermore, does causing Dissonance also trigger Quiescence?
e.g. Sleeper sees a Mage holding fire in his hands, but believes its a trick using a lighter. The Abyss isn't fooled, and the spell is disrupted. But does the Sleeper suffer the negative effects of Quiescence, suffering a Breaking Point of that?

Is it the fact that they're seeing something supernatural that causes the Breaking Point? Or the Abyss scourging the memory from their head that causes it?
>>
>>44579379
I feel like the first could've been rationalized in the sleepers head as "Oh, I must've tripped, guess I should be more careful where I'm walking", stumbling even on perfect footing isn't completely outside the realm of possibility.
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>>44579379
Believe has nothing to do with it. The shard of the Abyss has to realize that the Supernal is at work.

Dissonance does cause Quiescence, but Quiescence isn't necessarily the breaking point, I don't think. Just the forgetting. Or I may have the terminology wrong. Either way the Abyss likely uses the Sleeper's senses. I mean, it's not a conscious, aware thing.
>>
>>44579379
According to the wording in the spoiler blogs, the effect needs to be "obviously magical".
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>>44579444
Yes, but how does that shard of the abys work? Sleeper senses.
But what level of sense? Is hearing someone chant in High Speech from a neighbouring apartment enough?
What if something invisible knocks over a dustbin?
The sleeper could rationalise it easy, but as stated before, the abyss isn't fooled.

What level of evidence is required?
Any at all? No matter how tangentially related to the spell itself, but in some way caused by it?

But then the pushing would count.
>>
>>44579618
If a Sleeper could rationalize it, then it gets rationalized and nothing happens because that means the Abyss doesn't notice. High Speech is inherently Atlantean, although I don't think Quiescence happens except for actual spells. I don't even know if it happens for Attainments.
>>
>>44578731
I don't really know, I just can't seem to "see it in action", if you see what I mean. I read vampire and I can picture vampire game scenarios, with vampires of all sorts doing things, using their powers, interacting with other splats, etc.

But I cant seem to get there with Mage. I think the first stumbling block is I can't stop picturing them all in wizard robes, but beyond that I just can't see how they'd play in the same way I can the other slats.

I know this is a completely subjective issue so I'm not really expecting help, though hopefully the APs linked might help.
>>
>>44579725
>I just can't seem to "see it in action", if you see what I mean. I read vampire and I can picture vampire game scenarios, with vampires of all sorts doing things, using their powers, interacting with other splats, etc.
>But I cant seem to get there with Mage.
This is exactly the issue everyone says Dave's APs solve, so hopefully they work the same way for you.

The whole "this all seems cool, but what do I DO with it? How do I play a game of this?" question.
>>
>>44579725
Mage isn't exactly "What would you do if you had super powers." It is "The world is seriously strange, and finding out how strange it is makes you more powerful."
>>
Hmmm.
>44569912
>Tell me about the Wulgaru.
They're an Australian Lineage created by the gifted-but-lazy Shaman Djarapa. Their purpose was essentially being spiritual cleanup troops since the Dreamtime lead to all kinds of fucked-up shit leaking into reality, and this is a purpose that still defines the Great Work of many.

They're made from anything touched by Arcadia (the first was made from a murdered Fetch, but Changelings do just as well or better and are preferred these days), and their Wasteland taints reality with the chimerical insanity of said mercurial realm, which can quickly make an area completely uninhabitable .

While their Disquit sets in slower than that of others it is significantly more debilitating, slight bouts of psychotic delusions rapidly escalating into full-blown insanity, though beneath it all victims invariably stay lucid enough to turn their fraying minds against the true cause of their condition.

I probably explained that badly. TL;DR: Aussie prometheans whose Disquiet manifests as delusion and paranoia.

>>44579582
Attainments are like Batman's or Daredevil's abilities, i.e not provably supernatural to any degree whatsoever despite being superhuman.
>>44579379
>An invisible (Forces to bend light, if it matters) Mage pushes over a Sleeper who stumbles and falls. The Sleeper looks up and around, and sees nobody around, and the distance to cover is too great for anyone to have run.
>
>Would this trigger Dissonance?
Nope. What COULD fuck you over would be, say, leaving imprints on the carpet since that's absolutely not supposed to happen.

Also, wait. I wonder how difficult it would be making a photoelectric sensor that freaks the fuck out if a Mage using Forces tries to fuck with the beam.

Methinks it shouldn't be too hard using multiple beams that react to the signal being slightly of-center as well.

After all, most mystical powers in WoD usually are strong and far-reaching, but ultimately flawed. I think/believe.
>>
>>44579923
>magic kung fu
>not provably supernatural

That's not the Daredevil I know
>>
>>44579923
>>44569912
Fixed.
>>
>>44579923
>Attainments are like Batman's or Daredevil's abilities, i.e not provably supernatural to any degree whatsoever despite being superhuman.

No. They are not.
They are like vampire Disciplines, spirit Numina, or suchlike. They are most certainly supernatural effects, but they are effects that belong in this world, no need to drag them from the supernal world.
>>
Hi, it's that new guy again

I am reading the CofD Core rule book right now, and there's something that I can't quiet figure out.

Let's say I have 1 dot in Athletics, and then let's say Im specialised in gymnastics.

Do I add a dot in Athletics, thus I'll have 2 dots in total on my character sheet for Athletics, or do I write somewhere (+1 athletics gymnastics), thus only getting that +1 only when im performing action related to that skill Im specialised in ?
>>
>>44575471
Yup. My arisen fed his arisen into an incinerator, probably due to Heresy of some kind.
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>>44581131
Places to write specs is the most annoying part about CofD in general. Apparently you are supposed to write it on the line between the skill name and the dots.
But anyhow, it's the latter. You get an extra die when doing things related to your spec, in that skill.
>>
>>44581131
you just write the speciality down somewhere and only add that +1 during gymnastics related dice-pools. There's also interdisciplinary specialty that allows you to use that +1 on "other" skills where applicable.
>>
If a spirit has Influence: Cows, would it regain essence in a McDonalds / steak house?
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>>44579934
Hahaha. I like you.
>>44580715
Right, sorry, I misspoke. Provably supernatural as far as the Abyss is concerned.
>>44581131
You write Athletics•••○○ (Gymnastics), and add one die when a gymnastics-related check comes up. There should be a field for it next to the Skill entry.
>>44581175
...there is Cow in those burgers?
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>>44581186
Lets assume the adverts are true and it's 100% beef
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>>44581186
>...there is Cow in those burgers?
The McDonalds Meat Processing facility is a great churning Wound that pulls creatures of Spirit into itself and mulches them with the remains of creatures of Flesh.
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>>44581186
>...there is Cow in those burgers?
There is, actually. Raising beef animals is part of the family business. McD is our exclusive customer there.
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>>44575405
How about three unlocks per? That should provide enough options, while not making it overwhelming.
>>
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Do any of the WoD 1E books give guidelines for statting up rank 6+ spirits?
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>>44581562
Aren't Spirits of that power supposed to be literal Gods almost certainly beyond the capacity of the PCs?
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>>44581576
Depends, werewolves in adequate numbers could most certainly take down rank 6's assuming they were like...Primal Urge ten and on a siskur dah of a fucking massive scale.
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>>44581186
Athletics (Gymnastics) •••○○ you plebeian

>>44581308
I'm actually still having trouble figuring out three each. That much is a problem I already had in my first draft.
I'm writing out a bunch of Unlocks and Manifestations all proper like at the moment, but here's the first version that you can see where I had problems. Industrial Caul and a lot of the Elemental Keys are the main trouble spots.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SMgt9996QXnCahP_B6acce9_vZuj5myu_3RC7JYygpw/edit

I'm going through at the moment in a new doc and doing one each. Here's a sample

>Happy Place (Passion Boneyard)
>Cost: 1-5 Plasm
>Action: Instant
>By spreading their plasm across an area within their Boneyard, the sin-eater can change the emotional resonance of an area, manipulating people within into doing what they want. By spending a single point of Plasm, anyone within the area defined by the Sin-eater feels the chosen emotion, and acting on it reinvigorates them. Mechanically, the Sin-eater chooses a Vice that anyone in the area gains, though the actual “vice” can be anything. By spending three points instead, the emotion counts as a Virtue, restoring all Willpower if someone indulges in it.

>With two points of plasm on top of either strength of the emotion, she makes it much harder to resist; any action taken that doesn’t work towards that vice or virtue suffers a penalty equal to her Key.
I'm actually going to retweak this and put it to the Marionette, though; Passion Boneyard will instead be telepathy among several of your allies, allowing you to coordinate. Although thinking about it again, that doesn't really feel "passion"...

Still, my plan for the Boneyard is that you act as support

Another thing I'm thinking of doing is creating more Manifestations and Keys. If I do one power each, I could probably split a few of the Keys, like Stigmata focusing on Blood and then adding a Spectral Key. A Shadow Key is also a possibility, for dealing with Spirits
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>>44581752
>Athletics (Gymnastics) •••○○ you plebeian
Please don't bully our resident Wraith.
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>>44581562
Yes, Imperial Mysteries.
They aren't that much better than their lower peers in slugging matches, but where they pull ahead is in the power set.
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>>44581784
I make detailed profile templates for F-list and it bothers me when I see people ignore my template. I've been really strict about it in my current game, in fact.

One of the ways people do that is putting the specialty after the dots. Also my prefered type of dot is ●. I don't much care about empty dots, and I've never actually seen anyone use them.

For insight into my particular form of sheet, I don't have my Werewolf sample character because I'm lazy and haven't finished him, but here's this Demon. It even has fancy touches and looks real, even though I never even show it off.
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>>44581752
No roll?
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>>44581879
Not him, but rolls are traditionally based on Key and Manifestation, and thus not posted at the individual powers.
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>>44579195
No. If you need an anime comparison they're like the various gods in Shinto.

But the books do a better job of explaining it.
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>>44581908
Yeah. Take the framework of Shinto, and then make each and every kami a focused predator, who never stops thinking about how it'll feed.
>>
>>44581843

no one cares
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>>44581576

Spirits of ranks 6 and up don't show up in full power. They are only ever seen using avatars of lesser ranks rather than risk their real bodies out in the open.
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>>44582051
They're too powerful to show up in the material world.
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>>44582051
Wrong. Rules for them are in Imperial Mysteries. That part of the game is set on that power level, after all.
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>>44581198
Yes, probably, though I'd argue it wouldn't be very effective since the whole weird conceptual thing Spirits have going on would probably mean it'd be a "lesser" version of the power generated by, say, a butcher, slaughterhouse or farm.

>>44581204
Sounds like a plot hook to me!
>>44581226
>There is, actually. Raising beef animals is part of the family business. McD is our exclusive customer there.
Good business? Seems like it'd be simply due to mass.


>>44581752
>Athletics (Gymnastics) •••○○ you plebeian
Wohoho, my bad.
Alright, you're back to GTSE2 in earnest? Cool, allow me to bug you some more.
>Happy Place
That sounds more Innocents than Geist.
> Passion Boneyard will instead be telepathy among several of your allies, allowing you to coordinate. Although thinking about it again, that doesn't really feel "passion"..
If you want "Support" and "Passion" as themes I suggest giving it the following instead:
>Uncanny Resolve
>Cost: 5 Plasm
>Action: Extended
>Extending their will to encompass their allies the Bound inspires an unearthly sense of confidence within them. Any willing target within line of sight has their Resolve and Composure raised by half the the user's amount. Additionally, they gain 7 again on any roll involving them.

Thoughts? Or maybe just giving them 7 again would be enough, heaven knows trying to achieve anything when everyone's on the backfoot roll-wise is a PAIN.
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>>44582112
Yes, but they don't show up in the mortal world to deal with mortals, they have to be found in their own shadow enclaves.
>>
>>44582163
>>44582112
>>
>>44582152
>>Uncanny Resolve
Don't name an ability after an attribute, use Uncanny Confidence instead.
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>>44581175
>If a spirit has Influence: Cows, would it regain essence in a McDonalds / steak house?
No.

Spirits don't just regenerate essence like that, they have to take it from other spirits or a locus or be fed from its resonance. They'd have to do something about it, not just stand there.
>>
>>44582152
>Good business? Seems like it'd be simply due to mass.

It's ok. Hard to beat it in farming when one talks effort/profit.
It requires lots of work... every now and then.
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>>44582152
>Sounds like a plot hook to me!
Given Chris Allens rather...cheery description of a Ivory Claws science facility, I think he could do a rather good job of explaining what is happening both in the material world around the meat processing plant and in the shadow. Also the big end game to this should be a fight against the processed meat itself, which looks for all the world like The Rot from Swamp Thing.
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>>44582219
Oh yeah! That was a nice set of posts! I'll see if I can dig up the cap I took of it!
>>
speaking of slaughtering houses as Wounds...i'm running a WtF game in cincinnati and was going to have the site of one of the old slaughterhouses be a Wound, as I imagine the sheer scale of death caused by what was once the foremost slaughtering/meatpacking city in the United States had to have built up some hefty negative resonance.
Is it cool, or should Wound sites be reserved for more anthropocentric atrocities?
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>>44582295
Places where animals suffered totally count. Less, but they still count.

That said, clean deaths wouldn't make a place a Wound, just gather up a lot of Death-Essence.
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>>44582295
Wounds exist without human influence. But just being a slaughterhouse isn't really going to create a wound, it would have to have some pretty heavy unnaturalness going for it. Spirits eat each other to begin with.

You could go the Texas Chainsaw Massacre route, where it was the only thing keeping an entire town in business and, when shut down, brought about massive layoffs.

Or you could have there be a lot of horrible accidents there, or maybe people just going all sadist all over the cows.
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>>44582370
>where it was the only thing keeping an entire town in business and, when shut down, brought about massive layoffs.

history of cincinnati in a nutshell. when Chicago overtook the town's meat industry we ended up fading into obscurity and losing our position as a big important midwestern city, doomed to obscurity and weirdly frequent references in 19th century american literature.
The death of the local meat industry wasn't the death of the town, but it was a serious blow to Cincinnati's national relevance and economic standing.
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>>44582567
Well there you go
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>>44582567
For an added spooky benefit, you could make it a ghost slaughterhouse if you wanted
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>>44581879
>>44581904
The idea is that you don't, but I'm not entirely sure yet. You're not under any compulsion to do it, other than being bribed and everything else being made difficult. You don't want to do it, you just leave the area. For a Marionette version it will be Contested, but I'd need to rewrite the whole thing.

>>44582152
>Granting 7 again
what. Smiling Shade don't be drunk, it's no a katana.

>>44582181
Uncanny [Attribute] is actually a Promethean thing.

>>44582567
I was in Cincinnati for like two hours and someone stole my laptop because I was so sleep deprived that I left it alone around a corner while I got an overpriced hot dog. The cop gave me a stern talking to as if I was a criminal and or incompetent, and months later they called me saying they found it, but I'd need to go back to Ohio to ever get it back because apparently they don't know how postage works.
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>>44582567
>doomed to obscurity and weirdly frequent references in 19th century american literature.
This makes me laugh, I'm British if you hadn't guessed.
>>
Does anyone know what the hold-up in Awakening 2e?
Nothing has happened to it for two weeks. At all.
Is it just the holiday season haunting us, or something else?
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>>44582846
In the blog they said they slowed down on putitng out new shit to see how the new buyout went

Other than that, sometimes art takes a long time to deal with

also holidays
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>>44582857
The art is done though. The MM says "Once updated text is in, this will move into the layout queue."
So... should replacing "World of Darkness" with "Chronicles of Darkness" take 2+ weeks?
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>>44582878

No, and I sent the updated text in a while back. I don't know why Mike didn't update his list, but he probably just forgot.
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>>44583021
Oh thank the gods.
You have any idea what that post should say?
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So, how would the Old World of Darkness look if the werewolves had died out instead of the Grondr, Apis and Camazots?
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>>44583141
The Wyrm would have won hundreds of years ago
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Bodhisattva Predator: Having transcended into something greater, Lycaon-Ur has an increased Essence Pool and Essence per turn capability. He is capable of entering the Sacred Hunt at any time without needing to perform the rite, simply gaining the Siskur-Dah Condition against a prey of his choice. He is a set part of reality and cannot be removed from it except by his death; attempts to delete Lycaon-Ur from the timeline, rewrite reality so that he is not part of it or otherwise utterly unmake him will fail.
Totemic Transcendence: Achieved enlightenment through spiritual power, becoming a totem. Lycaon-Ur gains Influences as if he were a spirit of Rank equal to his honorary Rank, using Presence + Wits in place of Power + Finesse. He gains 3 Essence per day and 1 additional point of Influence due to serving as a totem to his Lodge. He also gains the usual capabilities of a Lodge totem to detect Lodge members, etc.
Enlightenments: Lycaon-Ur has access to the following powers:
Enlightened Renown (Cunning, Glory): Lycaon-Ur gains the Rote quality on all dice pools that include his Cunning or Glory Renowns.
Inviolate Soul: Lycaon-Ur’s soul cannot be damaged, tampered with or removed by anything but an idigam, and while on the Sacred Hunt no mind-influencing affects can cause him to turn from his prey.
Primal Form (Urshul): Lycaon-Ur adds his Purity to his Strength and Size in Urshul form.
Radiant Flesh: As well as his normal regeneration, Lycaon-Ur regenerates a single point of aggravated damage every turn.
Stainless Harmony: Lycaon-Ur’s Harmony is set at 5 and cannot change.
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>>44583318
Devourer: Lycaon-Ur gains twice as much Essence as normal from consuming human flesh. Doing so also heals him for a single point of lethal or bashing damage per point of Essence gained in this way, and he can remove a Tilt after consuming an entire body in this way (even a persistent Tilt). Whenever a member of the Lodge of the Field consumes human flesh, Lycaon-Ur gains a single point of Essence from the feeding. Lycaon-Ur can consume anything and draw sustenance from it without suffering any sort of detrimental effects, toxicity or the like. Anything he consumes is annihilated utterly, and his bite attack deals aggravated rather than lethal damage.

Hungerer: Lycaon-Ur is continually hungry and must spend a point of Essence every day that he goes without consuming human flesh. Simply by touching another character, he can cause them to gain the Gluttony Vice. A character so affected can be subject to the Claim manifestation by hunger spirits without needing to be Controlled first.

Clockwork Heart: Lycaon-Ur is attuned to a unique object, an egg of gears and lightning that is well-hidden. If killed while still possessing Essence, Lycaon-Ur will reform around the egg like a spirit would, the egg replacing his heart. Once reformed in this way, the egg serves as a normal heart would; removing it will kill Lycaon-Ur.

Forge Spawn: By spending 10 Essence, Lycaon-Ur can vomit out a new-born Rank 1 hunger spirit.

Forge Hive-Claimed: By spending 50 Essence, Lycaon-Ur can force a hunger spirit to bond to an existing hunger-Claimed, creating a Hive-Claimed. He may not force a spirit to bond to a Hive-Claimed that already has 10 or more spirits in it.
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>>44583318
>>44583325
You missed his actual stats you nincompoop.
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>>44583325
Blessing of Zeus: In place of a normal auspice, Lycaon-Ur has a unique Glory-related auspice power set from the messenger that Changed him. The first four Facets of this Gift grant him various benefits, some of which are included in the above powers; he is also immune to damage from electricity or lightning, and gains the Blast Numina (using Presence + Wits in place of Power + Finesse). If Lycaon-Ur continues to lead the Lodge of the Field to success, he will gain Glory 5 and unlock the final Facet, effect currently unknown.

>>44583332
They're unimportant.
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>>44583289
Weren't the Grondr next in line for the position of "Gaia's Warriors" after the Garou? Not to mention races like the Gurhal and the Bastet, who are only limited in their fighting potential due to their diminutive numbers (a problem which would largely be alleviated by the continued existence of the Apis, not to mention that under their guidance humanity was a lot less prone to corruption).

If the Garou had fallen to the Wyrm? Abso-fucking-lutely. If they'd just died? Hard to say.
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>>44583332
Lycaon-Ur
Tribe: Ghost Wolf
Auspice: None. Lycaon-Ur possesses a unique equivalent in the Blessing of Zeus, below.
Blood: Alpha Bone: Guru Vice: Gluttony (yes, he has a Vice as well)

Intelligence 4 Wits 5 Resolve 6
Strength 6 Dexterity 4 Stamina 8
Presence 6 Manipulation 5 Composure 2

Academics 3 Crafts 3 Investigation 4 Medicine 2 Occult 5 Politics 4
Athletics 4 Brawl 7 Stealth 6 Survival 5 Weaponry 4
Animal Ken 5 Empathy 5 Expression 6 Intimidation 7 Persuasion 6 Socialise 4 Streetwise 3 Subterfuge 3

Allies 5 (Lodge of the Field), Dedicated Locus 5, Fortified Form 5 (Gauru, Urshul), Indomitable, Instinctive Defence 2, Iron Stamina 3, Iron Will, Language 4, Living Weapon 5 (Urshul), Relentless Assault 4, Resources 5, Retainer 4, Safe Place 5, Staff 5, Status 5 (Lodge of the Field), Striking Looks 1, Tactical Shifting 5

Primal Urge: 10
Willpower: 8
Harmony: 5 (See Stainless Harmony below)
Essence: 100/20 (See Bodhisattva Predator below)
Health: 13
Renown: Cunning 4, Glory 4, Honor 3, Purity 3, Wisdom 4
Influence: Hunger 5

Gifts: Death (Cold Embrace, Barghest, Bone Gnaw), Dominance(All), Elementals (Catastrophe, Tongue of Flame), Evasion (All), Insight (Prey on Weakness, Read the World’s Loom, Scent the Unnatural, One Step Ahead), Stealth (Shadow Pelt, Predator’s Shadow, Running Silent), Strength (All), Warding (All), Weather (Hunt Under Iron Skies), Change (All), Hunting (All), Pack (Maw of Madness). If you use the Gift of Essence from the Giver of Gifts article, Lycaon-Ur also has access to all of the Facets of that Gift.

It's the Bodhisattva Predator thing that's important, as that's potentially available to all werewolves. Stats are just numbers.
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>>44583337
>not to mention that under their guidance humanity was a lot less prone to corruption
Honestly, this might be the most important thing here. Forget about combat ability, without the Impergium started by the garou humanity would've looked RADICALLY different. Hard to say whether it'd be some kind of green-energy pacifist utopia or they'd simply never make it out of the stone age, but it'd definitely be a lot less susceptible to the Wyrm.
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>>44583021
Yeah, as per the blog comments it looks like it should have had 'updated' replaced with 'approved'. Presumably that means it's off for approvals at White Wolf.
>>
So, how do you lot suppose a group of 4-6 Primal urge 8-10 werewolves could do against a rank 5 angel, an archetypal psycho-pomp to be specific.
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>>44583835
pretty well
>>
So what do you guys say are the odds of the Changeling kickstarter making another 20,000 bucks or so in the coming seven days? I already gave it a hundred, I can't give anymore, and I really fucking want that Boggan kithbook.
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>>44583922
I didn't know it was still going on
>>
Posted in the pdf thread too... anyone have the errata for Geist: the sin-eaters?
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>>44583922

The first and final weeks of any Kickstarter has the biggest financial push. There may have been people waiting until after the holidays to pledge, so there's a surprisingly good chance, especially with Dreaming fans.
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>>44582177
>>44582163

I just realized those things on the left are supposed to be book bindings. I always thought they were floating little turds.
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>>44584433
>I always thought they were floating little turds.
well they are from mage books
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Quick, I need ideas for Frenemies team ups! Any splat.
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>>44584861
Cold-as-ice Storm Lord Werewolf and the Cowardly Nosferatu who saved his life one night.

Hot-blooded werewolf shaman and hot-blooded Circle of the Crone vampire who constantly find themselves fighting over loci, the fights always ending in ass-poundings.
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>>44584906
>the fights always ending in ass-poundings.
That's not how you spell JOLLY CO-OPERATION!
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>>44582181
>Don't name an ability after an attribute, use Uncanny Confidence instead.
Good call.
>>44582219
ALL OF MY YES. Chris, go ring up Rose or something!
>>44582370
>>44582650
Several suicides in the wake of the facility's closure?
>>44582724
>what.
"Re-roll up to X dice" sound better?
>Smiling Shade don't be drunk,
That's kind of difficult.
> it's no a katana.
Is this in reference to the Katana in 3PF copypasta, or am I missing something crucial here? Anyways, what do you think of the basic idea and principle?
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>>44584946

It's a reference to Dudes of Legend: How to be Fucking Awesome, the best April Fools book ever released. One of the options in it were new Katana rules, which of course were so awesome that some pissy 8-again bonus couldn't cut it. No, it needed a 7-AGAIN bonus, since the Katana can cut anything, even beyond the means of the rules. So in a sense, it's WoD's own version of the copypasta.
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>>44583021

Does Mike work on multiple books at once or does he do one at a time? Do the other books have to be finished before he starts on Mage?
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>>44585159
You should ask on the blog, he's fairly respnosive
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>>44583353
What the fuck is this from? Is this in the Prey section of Werewolf or something?

>>44584274
I have like three slightly different things. None of it is official errata, mind you (which I tried to make clear), but here's probably what you're looking for.
There's also this, that I'm currently working on right now.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SMgt9996QXnCahP_B6acce9_vZuj5myu_3RC7JYygpw/edit

>>44584861
Acolyte Gangrel and Iron Master roommates look over the Locus in their apartment's basement and also play vidya. They fight crime.

>>44584946
>Is this in reference to the Katana in 3PF copypasta, or am I missing something crucial here?
"7-again" doesn't exist in nWoD, because only 8+ is a success. In Dudes of Legend, katanas grant 7-Again.
>>
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>>44585371
Alternately you mean this, which I haven't really worked on in ages, >>44584274 but actually says "unofficial errata". This one was probably a more... idealistic task.
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>>44585371
>What the fuck is this from? Is this in the Prey section of Werewolf or something?
Chris Allen posted a write-up of Lycaon, from the 2e book
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>>44585611
Where is that?
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>>44585354

getting a response from rich terrifies me. i already don't feel comfortable having dave respond to my posts.
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>>44585751
I just reposted it
>>44583353
>>44583318
>>44583325
>>
>>44585611
>>44585751
Oh, you mean it's an external write up of the character from the Poland Hunting Ground.
>>
>>44585611
Specifically, I posted one potential write-up (out of several) onto the OP forums of Lycaon-Ur, mentioned in the 2e book but not statted up therein.
>>
>>44585768
Rich is very responsive (on the blogs) and very nice

>>44585782
Gotta admit I wonder what the others are (but really I just want more write ups of awesome werewolfs)
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>>44585780
Yeah, I didn't have any room for a stat block for him in the book and besides, wanted to leave the possibilities for what exactly he is open.

The write-up posted above has some stuff from me prodding about some vague ideas for elder Uratha etc.
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>>44585791
The other write-ups that I've done are Lycaon as a spirit, Lycaon as an angel and Lycaon as a complete charlatan who has managed to lie and deceive his way to power.
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>>44585782
So do you have a link for this. Cause i am lost on how a werewolf because one.
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>>44585820
>Lycaon as a complete charlatan who has managed to lie and deceive his way to power.
hah, nice, but seems hard with so many werewolf abilities to peek through deceit (guess 10 PU would help)
>>
>>44585860
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/798541-alpha-predators-the-strongest-werewolves

Claire wanted people to post their level 10 werewolves

there's another thread for vampires

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/798547-alpha-predators-the-strongest-vampires
>>
>>44585820
>Lycaon as a complete charlatan who has managed to lie and deceive his way to power

So, he managed to achieve Renown of Cunning 6?
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L46iCN6MBFM
Slasher?
>>
>>44585883

It's a shame Claire didn't also start a thread for "alpha-level" Gnosis 10 mages (although they probably would need to be limited to mages who haven't crossed the Threshold and achieved archmastery in order to still be competitive with other spats).
>>
>>44585940
Anyone can make a thread if they want, she probably won't sue you for it.

But since it's based on 2e and there's no 2e mage book she probably didn't bother
>>
>>44585807
Chris, can you give us your thoughts on the McDonalds Meat Processing Wound upthread?
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>>44585940

Gnosis 10 isn't a big deal. Its all about crossing the threshold.
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>>44586143
And every player I've seen maxes out Arcana before raising gnosis past 3or 4.
>>
>>44586143

Gnosis 10 is a very big deal, particularly given the spoilers in 2e. It affects every spellcasting dice pool, increases the number of available yantras and legacy attainments, etc., as well as the standard increases in maximum stats and supernatural fuel capacity.

A Gnosis 10 third degree+ master mage (assuming 3 ruling arcana from a legacy) is absolutely terrifying and more than a match for a Blood Potency 10 vampire or Primal Urge 10 werewolf, even without access to the imperial arcana and other archmage abilities,

I would argue that after a mage crosses the Threshold, they are demonstrably more powerful than the other "alpha predators."
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>>44586282

Dave's spoilers and comments appear to indicate that 2e will have various incentives and disincentives to pace Gnosis and Arcana advancement.
>>
>>44586302
How? vampire and werewolf have access to very powerful stuff. Such as the vampire can be indestructible for a turn with a devotion.
>>
>>44586339
And Lycaon can't even be written out of time.
> He is a set part of reality and cannot be removed from it except by his death; attempts to delete Lycaon-Ur from the timeline, rewrite reality so that he is not part of it or otherwise utterly unmake him will fail.
>>
>>44586359
So hardly more then a match. Especial sence mages would have to worry about their spell potency. With the fact that vampire and werewolf tend to have the resistance stats boosted someway.
>>
>>44586302
>A Gnosis 10 third degree+ master mage (assuming 3 ruling arcana from a legacy) is absolutely terrifying and more than a match for a Blood Potency 10 vampire or Primal Urge 10 werewolf, even without access to the imperial arcana and other archmage abilities,

Not in a straight up fight they aren't. And if we're allowing prep time then you don't even need to be Gnosis 10.

Yantras aren't even a big factor against a BP 10 vampire because you'll get rekt long before you've activated the third yantra.
>>
>>44586339

In 2e, a spell's power can be increased dramatically by taking penalties to spellcasting dice pools. A Gnosis 10 master mage casting a spell from a ruling has a minimum 15 dice pool to increase effects, and only needs 1 success. A rote further increases the dice pool, and exceptional successes further increase spell power (and a praxis spell only requires three success for an exceptional success).

Since a Gnosis 10 mage can maintain at least 10 active spells without difficulty, they can easily match most devotions.
>>
>>44585865
He'd still have ended up a PU10 elder, but the charlatan version is one who has utterly lied about the Arcadia backstory and is 'just' a normal werewolf elder.

>>44585902
Cunning 5, but yes.

>>44585967
Hmm, a meat processing factory isn't necessarily a Wound but is a pretty good candidate for it. Could probably create something fairly grisly if the animal handling side of things treats the cattle very poorly/lets them die in agony rather than swiftly.

Kind of place that would be interesting to meat-hungry werewolves but an utter bastard to pacify.
>>
>>44586461
Well prep time is always good but stand true for both party's. A vampire or werewolf that knows there up against a mage can develop special protection. Such a a vampire can develop a devotion to let him know when he is being targeted with sympathetic magic. If they frenzy thats another -10 to their spell potency. Futher if the vampire is with the lanca then they can give the mage a -10 for just holding a weapon.
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Does anyone have the 2nd Edition books? The Share thread doesn't seem to.
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>>44586687
Top of the thread.
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>>44586705
also any torrent site
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>>44586571

A mage can also "fine tune" their abilities to deal with a specific threat, and the very nature of the Arcana permit a far greater versatility and adaptability than any devotion or gift.

In any event, the point is that a maxed-out mage is easily in the same league as other maxed-out splats, and absent additional published rules, archmasters appear to be in a class by themselves.
>>
>>44586718
>archmasters appear to be in a class by themselves.
That's because they are, which is why you can have a Gnosis 6 archmage and a gnosis 10 mage

but it's clear every splat is getting their own unique prestige class
>>
>>44586506
The die pool can be 25 die. And his best spells would have a bass potency of 5 he can then safely boost that potency by 5 more before going into paradox. So with a frenzy vampire he could be at -10 to -15 potency for his spells before reaching into paradox. Im not sure what the die pool cost is for increasing spell potency so lets say 1-1 that can bring the die pool down to 0-5. And lets say. It that lanca vampire he give the mage another -10. So down to -10/-5 before the spell can even affect him. So not so one sided.
>>
>>44586769
Plus when it comes to straight out damage vampires and werewolves win
>>
>>44586784
Especially if they're specialized into damage dealing. A fairly weak gangrel can do aggravated damage while in frenzy.
>>
>>44586718
Wait I thought we were talking about none archmaster? Because archmaster are OP
>>
>>44586713
Really it'll come up if you just Google "Vampire the Requiem 2e pdf".
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>>44586718
I give you that spell are more versatile thays their point. But devotions are not that weak nore are they limited by amount active. As mentioned before one devotion make you invincible for a turn. Nit the other great benefit of devotions is that they can what ever you need them to be. Such as a devotion with majesty and resilience can boost composure by majesty dot when ever thry have majesty on.
>>
>>44586882
Yeah, devotions allow you to customlize your disciplines, and fetishes allow you to customize your gift facets
>>
Note that Lycaon also has his pick of an entire medium-sized Lodge's armoury of fetishes, plus possibly gadgets if you run with the potential God-Machine link.
>>
>>44586968
So is lyacon the equivalent of a archmage. Couse i am not familiar with WTF 1ed all i know is that he has his own lodge is pretty cool and might be altered by the god machine.
>>
>>44587042
>Bodhisattva Predator: Having transcended into something greater, Lycaon-Ur has an increased Essence Pool and Essence per turn capability.
>>
>>44586882
>>44586904

Arcana can change and adapt on the fly, without the need to spend experience for a specific devotion or related ability.

Mages also have magical toys, and a powerful mage is likely to have a lot. Unfortunately, Dave hasn't spoiled the totally new mage imbued item and fetish creation rules.

>>44586784
>>44586802

All mages can deal aggravated damage at sensory range with only 4 dots in any Arcana as a regular spell, and some can even inflict such damage at sympathetic range. I don't believe any other splat has such an ability.

Notably, mages don't really need to spend their experience on specific supernatural abilities like devotions which can be readily replicated by spells. Instead, such experience can be spent on raising stats and skills or procuring other merits to both bolster their magic and more quickly and believably create a more well-rounded, and therefore adaptable, character. Sometimes certain Allies 5 can be far better than any specific combat enhancement (and not all battles are fought and won in open combat).
>>
>>44586302
spoilers?
>>
>>44587183

Not really a big deal because, again, in a straight up fight, a gnosis 10 mage would still get rekt by a BP 10 vampire because vampires are just that much better at immediate power. by the time the mage has activated half of his 10 available yantra, he'd already be dead.
>>
>>44587225
The great question is whether the mage in this case has an Unmaking Spell that targets Resolve or Composure. A vampire can boost Stamina so that an Unmaking spell targeting that can easily be Withstood, but not for Resolve or Composure.
>>
>>44586968

You admittedly created some very powerful and unique (and non-canon) abilities for Lycaon.

Did you actually design some behind the scenes system for creating these special abilities and/or setting limitations needed to acquire them (e.g., such as how a mage must cross the Threshold for Imperial powers)?

Has Stew indicated whether he intends to publish official rules for these "super-werewolves" in any currently scheduled W:tF books?
>>
>>44587183
While arcana can change on the fly that forces the mage to use the lower die pool. And I think mages still need to pay mana to do aggravated damage but im not so sure I think it might be reach. Futher the other splat can more easily deal with aggravated damage. Such as vampires resilience auto downgrades some of that damage and may spend vitae to not take some of it at all.
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>>44587183
DaveB already covered the werewolf vs mage thing on the board, werewolfs win

And keep in mind, vampires can interrupt your mage before they even get their spell out
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>>44587293
Haha, you're such a whiny bitch
>>
>>44587304
Dave did where is that?
>>
>>44587304
Yes, Celerity to definitely get the first Action, followed by activating Vigor and then pumping 13 Vitae into Physical Intensity (+26 dice) means the vampires should be able to grapple and immediately tear out the unlucky mages throat for a kill.

Of course, an even fight, with an unprepared mage, is the ideal scenario for the vampire.
>>
>>44587304

Ironically, in that thread, Dave specifically noted he was not comparing master-level characters or employing certain advantages likes rotes or fetishes, and was otherwise totally mocking the entire exercise since he hated "white room" battles.

>>44587193

Dave's released a large number of official Mage 2e spoilers, as well as commented extensively here and elsewhere.

His development blogs are available on the OP foums:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/437565-second-edition-development-blogs
>>
>>44587330
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/644997-hunters-vs-mages?p=656919#post656919
>>
>>44587293
>Did you actually design some behind the scenes system for creating these special abilities and/or setting limitations needed to acquire them (e.g., such as how a mage must cross the Threshold for Imperial powers)?

Yep.

>Has Stew indicated whether he intends to publish official rules for these "super-werewolves" in any currently scheduled W:tF books?

Nope.
>>
>Calming Static (Passion Boneyard)
>While expanding her senses, the sin-eater controlling the Passion Boneyard can communicate with others, touching onto their senses and sharing a bit of her awareness.
>Cost: 3 plasm
>Action: Instant
>Effect: Anyone within the boneyard feels a sense of static invading their senses that comes in two forms. The first, for those who’ve gained the sin-eater’s ire, is an irritating buzz and the whispering of the sin-eater at their mind. Anyone under the effect suffers a -2 penalty on all rolls, and loses a point of willpower every five turns minutes the sin-eater’s Passion dots.
>For those the sin-eater wishes to aid, they can hear her voice in their head, guiding them with her enhanced senses. The Sin-eater can aid any mundane roll through teamwork by rolling Wits+Empathy+Passion. Anyone under the effects of the boneyard can hear the sin-eater’s voice in their mind and have their thought shared with anyone else. The effect is weak, and easy to tune down, preventing even surface level thoughts and emotions from being shared with a successful Resolve + Composure roll.
Thoughts, comments, complaints?
I'm bad at writing in OPP style I think...

>>44587329
How is he being whiny?
>>44587409
Physical Intensity is only +2 once a scene, unless my Vampire is out of date.
>>
>>44587409
Well mages have accelerate spell which let them go first automatically so it would make it into a clash of wills if the mage had that.
>>
>>44587409

Most of the initiative and action-interrupt abilities of celebrity and similar powers are replicated (and sometimes improved) by some very low level Time spells, and at Time 2, by Time Armor without need to even cast a spell.

Also, as you note, surprising a mage who's managed to achieve Gnosis 10, with all related abilities, should at best be monumentally difficult (and if an Acanthus, damn near impossible).
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>>44587460
>Physical Intensity is only +2 once a scene, unless my Vampire is out of date.
Physical Intensity has always been +2 to a physical stat per Vitae spent.
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>>44587507
>Also, as you note, surprising a mage who's managed to achieve Gnosis 10, with all related abilities, should at best be monumentally difficult (and if an Acanthus, damn near impossible).
Only if you ignore the capabilities of other splats to stealth/predict what's going to happen
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>>44587507
Yay that true.
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>>44587507
>Most of the initiative and action-interrupt abilities of celebrity and similar powers are replicated (and sometimes improved) by some very low level Time spells, and at Time 2
So you waste your turn trying to catch up to the vampire's reflexive Celerity
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>>44587519
Could have sworn 2e changed that.
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>>44587552
It never existed in 1e so it would be a weird thing to change
>>
>-Lana Marie of the Trees
Of the what, now? And wouldn't it be sorceress?
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>>44587548
Well the mage would cast that because it has no mana cost and it last longer then the vampire ability which cost 1 vitae per turn to do.
>>
>>44587548

In 2e, Mage Armor is reflexive, including Time's initiative and interrupt abilities. Any mage with Time 2 automatically gets it as an arcana attainment.
>>
>>44587586
It still wastes a turn. And a BP10 vampire only needs one turn to drain a human

>>44587599
Then it comes down to a clash of wills to see who's better.

And the vampire is adding its 10 BP to its all physical stats because frenzy
>>
>>44587586
The scenario described assumed an entirely unprepared mage. The mage would be dead before they can even cast Acceleration. Of course, having an UNPREPARED Master of Time is an unlikely scenario to begin with, but that was the base assumption.

>>44587599
Firstly, Acceleration (which allows the Interrupt) is not the Time Armor. Secondly, was it actually confirmed activating your Mage Armour is Reflexive and not Instant?
>>
When we decided to make spellcasting obey the CofD's dice mechanics for instant actions, it had some unexpected results.

For example. One of the things you can pick from as the benefit of getting an exceptional success on a spell is "this spell is not withstood".

Who cares about the Vampire's superhuman stamina? I bet a Gnosis 10 White Room King can get five successes. It's his choice if he goes for a rote (reroll failures, if he made the rote himself, and add another lump of dice, potentially making the one-yantra dice pool *20*) or a Praxis (reduces the Exceptional Success criteria to three. Bet you can get three successes on 15 10-again dice.)
>>
>>44587573
Blood buff has always been a thing. Heck, it was in oWoD and the Bloodlines video game.
>>
>>44587454
>>Did you actually design some behind the scenes system for creating these special abilities and/or setting limitations needed to acquire them (e.g., such as how a mage must cross the Threshold for Imperial powers)?
>Yep.

Will we ever see this mysterious and powerful system, perhaps in a blog release?

Also, if I recall correctly, weren't you going to release a Rite creation system at Christmas release along with your Gift creation system?
>>
>>44577856
>stop time
>kill angels

Pic related.
>>
>>44577863
Holla, holla get dollah
>>
>>44587640
... why would you do that?
Maybe it's just part of my game design philosophy, but powers or abilities should never DO things, only ALLOW you to do things. "Deal damage" not "kill". If something is unresisted, what's the point of rolling for it at all?

I thought you had to determine the effects before hand, too, so you'd factor in the withstanding before rolling?
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>>44587643
It's not a thing in requiem
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>>44587640
Wait as is the attribute does not apply to the potency or resilience ca not be used.
>>
>>44579184
Yeah, why not? Though it'd need some sort of structure to drive the narrative. Maybe beef up and extrapolate on their antagonists? Define them by who they're fighting back against?
>>
>>44587507
I think our debate became a white room battle... I feel ashamed of myself.
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Does the new Chronicles of Darkness book contain any rules for starting a new mortal character with any supernatural abilities at all?
>>
>>44587738
Well, then wait until Mage 2e is actually out and think up some actual scenarios with actual characters and play them out in the thread and see what happens.
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>>44587762
There is an entire section for minor Supernatural Merits ála Second Sight.
>>
>>44587791
Awesome. Exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks.

Are the rules to use them complicated?
>>
>>44587640
>For example. One of the things you can pick from as the benefit of getting an exceptional success on a spell is "this spell is not withstood".

That one very small advantage of an exceptional success, and the fact that a supernatural power stat does not add to resistance rolls for most spells, really alters the power dynamic of supernal magic, particularly at high levels of (crossover) play.

You stated early on that master mages were terrifying, and you certainly appear to have delivered on your promise.

BTW, will any of the currently scheduled mage supplements update the archmaster/imperial practices for 2e?
>>
>>44587685
Nope. Withstanding happens after you roll - subjects treat the Potency of Withstood spells as though it were (withstand trait) lower. If this means 0, the spell doesn't affect them.

This is so that a mage can, say, cast a Potency 2 "go the fuck to sleep" spell on a room, and everyone *except* the one guy with Resolve 4 will drop.

Withstanding is part and parcel of mage's whole "it is better if you prepare, but you will usually be pressed for time" tension. Because if you can spend the time to have a look at your intended subject in Mage Sight of the correct arcanum, you the player will be told what the subect's relevant trait is. If you'e flying blind, you just have to guess how many dice penalties to take based on how powerful you think the spell has to be. Which leads to mages habitually overkilling to be certain, which leads to the downsides of being a mage.

Mages with hours to spare and a clear idea of what they're looking at are in their comfort zone. Mages who have been jumped by an unknown monster in an alley make hasty decisions, which can end up not working at all, working too well, and other disquieting things.

(Also, have you seen some of the power mechanics in other games? The *standard* is "this just works". If Withstanding didn't produce the play behavior I'm after in games, it wouldn't be in the game at all.
>>
>>44585082
>It's a reference to Dudes of Legend: How to be Fucking Awesome, the best April Fools book ever released. One of the options in it were new Katana rules, which of course were so awesome that some pissy 8-again bonus couldn't cut it. No, it needed a 7-AGAIN bonus, since the Katana can cut anything, even beyond the means of the rules. So in a sense, it's WoD's own version of the copypasta.
...right. I walked into that with open eyes.
>>44587762
Yep. Page 56 or so.
>>44587818
>Are the rules to use them complicated?
Nope.

>Biokinesis (• to •••••)
Effect: Your character has the ability to psychically alter
his biological makeup. By spending a Willpower point and
concentrating for a full minute, he can shift his Physical
Attributes, moving dots from one to another. He can shift one
dot in an Attribute per dot in this Merit. This shift lasts for
one hour. This can shift an Attribute no higher than five dots.
Also, the character heals quickly. Halve all healing times
>>
>>44587818
No, just roll [DICE POOL] and have [EFFECT] perhaps with some [MODIFIERS]. Y'know, just like any other action in the system.
>>
>>44587818
Nah, it's just a selection of merits with all its crunch fitting into a paragraph. Hurt Locker will have more, as well as ways for your vanilla psychics to hone their powers with Fighting Styles for them.
>>
>>44587640
The King of the White Room sounds like something pretty nasty, maybe a gulmoth.

>>44587644
>Will we ever see this mysterious and powerful system, perhaps in a blog release?

Dunno, it's just my personal notes and framework at the moment. I'd rather see elder werewolves get a full set of wordcount in a book rather than just get a blog post, desu.

>Also, if I recall correctly, weren't you going to release a Rite creation system at Christmas release along with your Gift creation system?

Yeah, started on it but been busy with some other bits and pieces while I mull over how to structure it, etc.
>>
>>44587818
Here's the supernatural merits from Hurt Locker (alpha test version)
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>>44587826
>Mages who have been jumped by an unknown monster in an alley make hasty decisions, which can end up not working at all, working too well, and other disquieting things.

Would you say an ST choosing ... unexpected... results for using hasty spells on unresearched targets is according to the intended gameplay?
>>
>>44587942
No, obviously all mages are meant to know exactly what they're getting into all the time
>>
>>44587911
>The King of the White Room sounds like something pretty nasty, maybe a gulmoth.

Actually an Annunaki. Within it, entities can only bring to bear their own powers for very contrived reasons. Tools fails, prepared advantages dissapear and everything behaves like a tight mathmatical calculation.
>>
>>44587846
>>44587853
>>44587868
>>44587919

Thanks guys!
>>
>>44587686
I don't have Requiem on me, but I am like 90% sure that it does. I've even got other people telling me that it existed.

Although apparently you can boost Physical Intensity more. Looking back, I think what I remember 'figuring out' was that you could only blood buff or whatever once per turn until you were higher BP, since for whatever reason you could only spend 1 Vitae per turn until BP 4 or something.

>>44587826
>Also, have you seen some of the power mechanics in other games? The *standard* is "this just works".
Yeah, but you usually have a better grasp of how things should work. It's not Withstanding that I find surprising, it's that on an Exceptional Success you can just ignore it and turn it into "this just works".

Although one problem is that a lot of things really are binary, and on-off decisions are kind of boring. It's bad if everyone can resist your "go the fuck to sleep" power, but it's also annoying if you can just put every important powerful enemy to sleep.
>>
>>44587968
I am assuming sarcasm. The thing is, some players can get very iffy about that sort of thing. When they feel the effect was entirely unpredictable and is only forced by the ST to create an artifical wrench in their works.
>>
>>44587968
I thought it was there shit out there I don't know, better investigate that. So by that standing there alot of thing they can be unprepared for.
>>
>>44575412
>Vampire
walking simulator

>Werewolf
RTS

>Hunter
movie theater lobby-styled arcade shooter

>Wraith
JRPG

>Changling
kart racer with dating sim elements between races

>Mummy
windows solitaire card back packs

>Beast
episodic Telltale series
>>
>>44588023
>I don't have Requiem on me, but I am like 90% sure that it does. I've even got other people telling me that it existed.
Feel free to ask them for their books, you've just got pdfs,s earching for it should be ez
>>
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>>44576608
>Demon
>not Doom

I can't be the only one who saw this
>>
>>44588023
>since for whatever reason you could only spend 1 Vitae per turn until BP 4 or something.
No, they can spend 2 Vitae per turn at BP 2, and 3 at BP 3 and increasing like that until 9 and 10, where it explodes

so you figured that out wrong too
>>
>>44587640
>>44587911
>>44587988

White Room King vs. The God Machine ?

It would be like the Time of Judgment for the CofD.
>>
>>44588105
It's under physical augmentation, it adds two dice to physical rolls for a turn
>>
http://theonyxpath.com/scarred-lands-players-guide-kickstarter-is-live/
>>
>>44587738
>I think our debate became a white room battle... I feel ashamed of myself.

Hah. Don't feel any shame, only amusement.

First, Claire basically intended such discussions with her Vampire and Werewolf threads, and doesn't hesitate to join in any "white room" action.

Also, white room discussions are fine if casual and amicable. They become annoying when they devolve into little more than childish "my favorite splat is better than yours" arguments or someone complains about some hypothetical mathematical imprecision while totally ignoring narrative issues and game themes.
>>
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>>44588246
>implying I care about any D&D that is not Planescape
>>
>>44588296
Ian, really?
>>
>>44588305
quit dicksucking developers by name
>>
>>44582192
What I meant was, would a McDonalds be resonant enough in Cow essence to give a cow spirit essence.
>>
>>44588319
Not quite dicksucking, he's the only one ever been in these threads with a massive fucking Planescape tattoo on his back

>>44588331
No, McDonalds doesn't have anything to do with cows. If the cow had a few ranks and gained a Meat or Food influence, sure
>>
>>44588331
no, maybe the slaughterhouse but not the McDonalds itself
>>
>>44588105
They also don't have the books on them at the moment.

I grabbed VtR1e. It's Physical Augmentation, and it does give +2 to a Physical Attribute.

>>44588153
The "or something" was meant to highlight the off the top of my head, approximate nature of that statement.
Although, no, in FIRST EDITION you can only spend one per turn until BP 4. Which is what I was talking about. Although I guess I didn't make the clear enough.
>>
>>44588276
I see your point. But white room battle never acount for thing that happen in story or real characters in play. I tried to keep the vampire in our debate to as close as possible to a vampire i intend to play. Idk white rooms just bug me.
>>
>>44588374
>. But white room battle never acount for thing that happen in story or real characters in play.
This is the point of white room battles. Two characters with nothing but a character sheet and mechanics.
On one hand it lets you pit mechanics against one another.
On the other, it lacks anything deeper than mechanics (what characters are like)
>>
What kinda banes/bans do you lot figure a rank 3 spirit of peace might have?
>>
>>44588420
The blood of a child
The bones of an innocent man
A picture of Stalin
>>
>>44588420
Can't talk to anyone who's suffering a Condition that affects their mental state
or
Must flee from violence

As a bane, an object that's been used to physically someone
Or guns/swords
>>
>>44588405
That the thing though its only mechanics. Battle are won by the situation such as one person getting the jump on another or all the friends of one person are turned into mindless thralls that attack the other.
>>
>>44588485
But through a white room battle you can see major flaws in mechanics that might be overlooked because they don't comeup in certain situations
>>
>>44588485
Not a day goes by that someone doesn't post in this thread (which is hardly the busiest thread on /tg/) about some mechanic they think is OP, without considering the situations it would be used

People like them, they're easy
>>
>>44577819
As long as he has WP to blow on those Exploit uses, no ass reaming will necessarily take place.
>>
>>44588511
This is a major issue, because especially with Beast and Matt's design you have this "I only care if it came up in play" problem. Most of the time people who see that kind of problem are going to intentionally avoid it as opposed to go dive right in and break things.

"This power solves any problem" shouldn't be something you need to playtest to figure out a problem with.
>>
>>44588511
I think White Rooms should not be discarded out of hand, as you say, but they should not be the primary metric. Ideally, you snoop out possible problems in a white room and then test them with tailored and varied real scenarios.
>>
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>>44588583
>but they should not be the primary metric.
As true as this is, anything more than that is going to have to involve sharing character sheets from our characters, the places they live in, their allies/friends/robot girlfriends/safe houses

And since I'm the only one here who plays it's just impossible
>>
>>44588632
You don't really need to bring in allies and shit to figure out who'd win in a fight.

Although seriously, /wodg/ could learn a lot from Reddit's r/whowouldwin.
>>
>>44588687
>You don't really need to bring in allies and shit to figure out who'd win in a fight.

Huh? The very nature of merits like allies prevent the implausible, one-on-one, featureless, narrative-impaired "white room" battles so beloved by soulless rules-lawyering mathematicians.

Particularly at high levels of play, where Allies are often similarly powerful as PC's, they can quickly decide a battle or ensure no combat occurs at all.

Allies 4 or 5 and similar merits are often the best and most productive and efficient combat merits in the entire game (and have the advantage of other uses outside of combat).
>>
>>44588687
>You don't really need to bring in allies and shit to figure out who'd win in a fight.
You do when the mechanics aren't clear. A Gnosis 10 Mage and a BP 10 Vampire are both very powerful. But a vampire could have the mage's hubby dose him with vinculum until he's fully blood bonded, giving a great edge to the vamp
If the mage had allies: werewolfs he could just call on them to ace the vampire
>Although seriously, /wodg/ could learn a lot from Reddit's r/whowouldwin.
I just looked at it and it's no better.
>so and so would win
>only if it came down to grappling
>>
Hey Dave. So, thinking about offensive time magic and whatnot. Would an offensive unmaking time spell effectively be able to make someone have never existed? Unmaking their time of birth, so to say?
>>
>>44588946
I wrote a time travel story where this was an Olympic sport
>>
I wanna play an Acanthus who focuses on crossover with Mummy cosmology. Any tips for Order and Legacy? Would you allow this character in your game?

Thinking of her as an heir to the Weret-Hekau from Dark Eras.
>>
>>44588864
>>44588870
Gee, I wish I was always rolling with my crew on every situation.

>I just looked at it and it's no better.
There's not as much of the quote chains, so people tend to lay out their point of view in a big detailed post, and answer questions about it in the comments. Much less of the off the cuff "well if they have this power they win [ignoring the other side's similar abilities]" and most of the time they try to think of ways either side would win, instead of "my favourite wins because". Or at least, that's what it was like the last time I checked it out. They also tend to set up the circumstances and questions, and even do multiple layers, like asking who'd win in a fistfight to who'd win if all their allies were available, and laying out where they're fighting and often even over what.

Plus it's better by virtue of the questions being better. Let's not argue about white room combat. Let's argue about whether a Mage or a Vampire can run a better lemonade stand.

>>44588963
>Murdering people as an Olympic sport
>>
Does anything crazy happen when a werewolf hits really high Primal Urge?

Vampire elders and Archmages get a lot of wordcount.
>>
>>44588946

I really have a love-hate relationship with the Time Arcanum that's likely to grow worse with 2e.

Although cool and fun in the abstract, anything to do with time travel, particularly at high levels in a setting where it's not the primary focus, has the potential to radically affect the overall setting, unbalance a chronicle, and often be internally inconsistent.

I'm eager to see the detailed Time mechanics and limitations in 2e, and whether they ameliorate the expected problems.
>>
>>44587685
Instagib spells are a staple in tabletop games. Dating back to say, at least Gygax.
>>
>>44589124
And Save-or-Die spells were often reviled from a gameplay perspective.

Not arguing whether it is good or bad in 2e, but an appeal to tradition is not really a good argument here.
>>
>>44589046
>Gee, I wish I was always rolling with my crew on every situation.
The whole point of contacts is that you can reach them.

You can't complain about white rooms not involving situational aspects of the game while at the same time demanding situational aspects of the game can't come into play
>>
>"Abilities that aren't resisted are bad!"
>a fuckton of Embeds have no roll to resist

Where have you people been?
>>
>>44589248
There were a ton of complaints about those, too, especially instantly-knocking-out-things-that-can't-get-knocked-out
>>
>>44589248
There is a paragraph that explains this in the book. When targetting major NPCs (which most templated supernaturals probably will be) get to resist.
>>
>>44589046
>Gee, I wish I was always rolling with my crew on every situation.

Your "crew" is your cabal, pack, coterie, etc. The Allies merit is potentially far broader and more useful, although sometimes setting or situation limited and not under a PC's direct control.

Allies also allows for a great deal of creativity, and can represent anything from ubiquitous armed security, broad political contacts, and even guardian spirits.

> Let's argue about whether a Mage or a Vampire can run a better lemonade stand.

That's easy. It's definitely mages. Lemonade stands do a far more brisk business during the daylight hours, and devious options like creating "pink or strawberry lemonade" through the use of vitae and other questionable commercial tactics can readily be replicated through awakened magic.

Besides, vampires are just far too sexy and cool for lemonade,,,
>>
Dave, someone on the thread mentioned a Lancea merit, Crusade, that's going to be in the new VtR book. It's first ability is

Shield Against Sorcery (•): Your character’s military training allows her to intercept enemy sorceries with weapon or shield. So long as she’s currently armed, with weapon in hand, subtract her Weaponry score from any incoming spells, rituals, or sorceries targeting her, including those from sources other than Kindred. If she takes a Dodge action, she may extend this benefit to one other character for the turn.

This seems like it would be crazy effective against 2e Supernal magic. Almost too effective. Any thoughts?
>>
>>44589284
>Besides, vampires are just far too sexy and cool for lemonade,,,
If you infuse a Lemon with Vitae, does it combust in sunlight?
>mfw Malkovian Cave Johnson
>>
>>44589296
Keep whining
>>
>>44589198
You can't ALWAYS reach them. If you get into a fight in an alleyway, you can't call your buddy up on speed dial and you can't have them all teleport in at a moment's notice (unless they're Mages, I guess).

>>44589248
No one said those are better. In fact I said that Dave generally has a better feel for how these things should work (Matt on the other hand thinks Game Balance is a Myth and it leads him to instant powers that might as well not be rolled).
Plus, like >>44589282 says, that's not actually the case, it's just spelled out elsewhere.

>>44589284
>Your "crew" is your cabal, pack, coterie, etc.
Yeah, and they don't stick with me 24/7.

Also, no one is too cool for lemonade.
>>
>>44589296
The same way a Gangrel with Claws of the Unholy is too effective against werewolves?

Powers are allowed to be cool and special in 2e, bro. Relax. Giving different supernaturals aces in the hole only helps to improve setting consistency by making a MAD situation between different supernatural societies actually believable.
>>
>>44589380
>The same way a Gangrel with Claws of the Unholy is too effective against werewolves?
I'd say it's more just overall very effective, rather than too effective against anyone

I don'tthink anyone's had a problem with that being able to fuck up werewolves. as a huge werewolf fan I haven't
>>
>>44589296

If I recall correctly from the discussion after that draft was released some time ago, there was a lot of criticism of Crusade, and David Hill acknowledged many of the complaints had merit.

I wouldn't be surprised if Crusade has changed substantially, and since David has recently been active on the OP forums, you should inquire there about its current state.
>>
>>44589296
I don't see how that power makes any sense except fighting off visual spells like Fireballs.
How does a weapon help you against a curse?
>>
>>44589415
It's magically infused by the wielder's faith
>>
So lets talk about characters! What's everyone playing right now?

I'm playing a Mage who's dating another PC who's a Daeva. I'm basically the Harry Dresden of Detroit and she's batshit crazy obsessed with me. She bought me a Hallow and a building for the Hallow after knowing her for about 14 hours. She also might have raped my character the first time we met because I was too tired to refuse her and she was offering me food. She's basically my sugar momma now. I'm also her touchstone, so there's that.
>>
>>44589415
Symbolism. Y'know, the same thing Supernal magic runs on to begin with. You "cut" the curse with your righteousness.

Seriously, it is Old-Testament-Style Vampiric Fightan Magic For Dark Paladins, what do you want?
>>
>>44589501
>>44589455
Still doesn't explain how you stop a spell you can't see. Wizards need Magic Sight to stop a spell. Vampires should need like Auspex
>>
>>44589380
>>44589366
The issue lies in that not only does it not make much sense against a LOT of supernal magic (a lot of which have nothing to deflect), a negative of up to ten when a Mage can get a dicepool of 20 at 10 gnosis with a rote is kind of nuts.
>>44589415
This.
>>44589405
Thank god.
>>
>>44589497
>I'm basically the Harry Dresden of Detroit

I cannot even imagine how dark, grim, and dangerous Detroit must be in the CofD considering its condition is so piss poor in real life. It's interesting and fairly unique history coupled with terrible urban decay should render its Shadow reflection truly abominable.
>>
>>44589517
Instinct.

Because they're witch killers.

>>44589543
>The issue lies in that not only does it not make much sense against a LOT of supernal magic (a lot of which have nothing to deflect),
They deflect the magic, it doesn't have to be a visible bolt
>a negative of up to ten when a Mage can get a dicepool of 20 at 10 gnosis with a rote is kind of nuts.
So?
>>
>>44589497

I haven't played anything in two years.

My last character was a Beast who became Summer King and was assassinated by his motley on the eve of glorious battle with a Charlatan, and I enjoyed him so much that any desire to ever play Changeling again evaporated.
>>
>>44589599
Well I live in Detroit, so it's actually nicer cause the Ventrue exist and they like money.

Just avoid the inner city and it's werewolves and you're fine.
>>
>>44589599
There's worse places, like neighboring Flint.

I believe Detroit and Michigan have received the most theories about what's going on (compared to other cities) than any other place on the new World of Darkness boards.
>>
>>44589626
It's a one dot merit.
>>
>>44589517
"Should need" is tricky since Vampiric supernatural powers are not bound to a strict set of laws the same way Supernal magic is.

Even so, the Merit (and the training behind it) could include a kind of sensitivity to magics.

>>44589543
>a lot of which have nothing to deflect

What if it cuts/deflects the Truth Symbols that Supernal magic throws around? You deflect the "I MAKE THIS BLOODSUCKER UNLUCKY"-symbol.

>a negative of up to ten when a Mage can get a dicepool of 20 at 10 gnosis with a rote is kind of nuts.

Of course only [YOUR FAVOURITE SPLAT] is allowed to have cool things. Besides, this is a Merit for a small sub-section of a sub-section of the vampiric population.
>>
>>44589497
This doesn't sound like a game so much as ERP

>>44589653
and? the Giant merit requires all mages to put extra effort into using magic on you for anything they do
>>
>>44589626
Unless it's an aimed spell, it doesn't have a line of effect to deflect. It just happens. How does a melee weapon do anything to that?>>44589681
That's like, a -2.
>>
I like how when fans of other games complain about mage cosmology they're told they're overreacting.

But whenever a mage fan sees something that might infringe upon their omnipotence they whine up a storm.
>>
>>44589681
>This doesn't sound like a game so much as ERP
It's like 25% her ERPing with me, 75% us running around killing monsters. We got a werewolf and a changeling also. Changeling is a winter fae who was kidnapped by Jack Frost. He's a monstrous dick.
Werewolf is basically a biker guy who's dad has fucked dozens of wereolves into being.

This is our Werewolf's dad
>>
>>44589709
The merit just doesn't make any sense, that's the issue. If it gave penalties to a mages casting in a way that wasn't "anime deflect magic", and wasn't a one dot merit for a penalty between 2 & 10. How many things have you heard of that give a -10 to a die pool? It's absurd, is all.
>>
>>44589679
Last I cheeked it is their faith in god the protect them from magical effects. So it not defecting the magic away. it's his faith, knowledge, and what ever their god is that protects them.
>>
>>44588095

I'd play the Wraith, Hunter, and Lord help me the Beast one. Mummy too.
>>
>>44589860
It's not absurd, it just gives your Weaponry as a Defense to magic

It's the same as Brawling Dodge

Shield Against Sorcery (•): Your character’s military training allows her to intercept enemy sorceries with weapon or shield. So long as she’s currently armed, with weapon in hand, subtract her Weaponry score from any incoming spells, rituals, or sorceries targeting her, including those from sources other than Kindred. If she takes a Dodge action, she may extend this benefit to one other character for the turn.
>>
>>44589986
>>Your character’s military training
>>military training
Your character has learned the fearsome fighting style of Lancea et Sanctum crusaders. It’s designed to debilitate Kindred opponents, and to shut down dark sorceries quickly.
>>
>>44589860
When viewed from a Mage perspective, yes. Within the context of Vampire, it is not so crazy and internal balance is what the developers care most about. Most supernatural powers you are facing as a vampire are not penalised by this. It makes you a good hunter of Cronies and forces opponents to take a path besides Blood Sorcery to attack you, which vampires have plenty of.

If you include hostilce Sanctified Crusaders in a Mage game, feel free to adjust or ignore.
>>
>>44589995
If it added it to defense for aimed spells, it would be perfectly balanced, I feel.
>>
>>44590032
It's perfectly balanced as it is, since it's a one dot merit that is almost useless against other vampires
>>
>>44590030
The merit itself mentions "sources other than kindred" so I'm not sure if you're 100% correct.
>>
>>44590083
No, I get that. The point is that is only there to deal with the inevitable questions. It is not, however, something that is going to significantly affect the pricing of the power. "Effectiveness against Awakened mages" is a metric that is going to be entirely meaningless in most Chronicles of Vampire: the Requiem.

"Effectiveness against witches of the Circle of the Crone" more like it!
>>
>>44589681
>This doesn't sound like a game so much as ERP
What's the problem?
>>
>>44590083
And that doesn't mean "Mages, from the Mage: The Awakening sourcebook". It means magical sources other than Kindred. It could be Lucifuge Hunters or Werewolf Gifts or the power of Witches from Witch Finders.
>>
>>44590083
If you don't want it in your games don't use it
>>
>"In a few hours' time, a young boy will pass this way and pick up that nickel. This will give him the money he needs to buy a certain work of graphic fiction, and he will proceed to the comic-book store. Because his journey home will be thus delayed by five minutes, he will be approaching the main road rather than crossing it when the auto pile up occurs, and escape a slow and painful recovery from his injuries in hospital. However, because they will not have the chance to reconcile over his sick bed, his estranged parents will not get back together and his sister - destined to become a high school teacher - will never be born. Someone who would be in the world won't be, and all for a Nickel"

Fucking Mages.

Whoever suggested these APs, you rock.
>>
One of my hunters wants to gain the "gifted" merit from witch-finders, should I be worried if he actually manages to get it ?
>>
>>44589077
Probably, yes.
>>
>>44590763
Gifted merit is awesome.

>>44590616
Holy shit, what?
>>
>>44590853

What game lines and books are you currently an author? Also, has Dave chosen you as part of the Deviant team?
>>
>>44590881
how awesome are we talking? "Ruin everything" or "nifty"
>>
>>44590903
Currently, including everything done and in the pipeline: W:tF - Werewolf 2e core, Idigam Chronicle fiction anthology, The Pack
M:tAw - Mage 2e core
Dark Eras - The Sundered World, Neolithic era
Trinity Aeon - Trinity core

As for Deviant, who can say? It's definitely something I'd be keen to be in on, but I think DaveB's been pretty upfront that we're still in the earliest stages of the game's developments.
>>
>>44590616
God, that take me back. Can't even remember what I ripped that off from.
>>
>>44591052

Can you give us any sort of tease for your Dark Era?
>>
>>44591134
DaveB is right here and he's the dev for it, so ask him :)
>>
>>44591099
>>44591188
>double dubs

You'd better do one each
>>
>>44591052

What section did you write for Mage?

Trinity? I really miss that line. I even still have the old Aeon corebook in the hard plastic before the intellectual property nonsense and Trinity stickers and renaming.

However, it's taking forever for the Trinity release. I assume because the Sardonyx (or whatever) system is still in beta. Any chance of some spoilers concerning revisions or updates to the setting?
>>
>>44585371
>>44585455
Unoffical status noted, and thank you very much! I'll have my ST look over it and see if it's what he's looking for.

>>44591052
I'm currently playing a woof in a crossover game, and my ST is talking about updating us to 2e next chapter. how apprehensive should I be, on a scale of no to yes?
>>
>>44589497
Crossover games are cancer.
>>
So all it took was me getting fired, but a book I wrote for is finally being released. The Advance PDF for the Demon STG comes out tomorrow and I'm kinda hype to show you faggots what I was doing for Onyx.

I did the Promethean and Geist crossovers, as well as the Giants in the Earth shard for the Demon Storyteller's Guide and it'd be awesome if you guys bought it.
>>
>>44591211
And an 88 and 99 too, wow.

Ok, so you'll be seeing more of the background of the Uratha, and how the past doesn't necessarily match up with the modern 'official' stories of the Pure and Forsaken. About that silver bane, for example.

>>44591256
>What section did you write for Mage?

Ephemeral entities.

>Any chance of some spoilers concerning revisions or updates to the setting?

I wrote the new edition's section on Europe. I would like to think it will have more verisimilitude for the region than the earlier version.
>>
>>44589296
Given the discussion, especially the use of "intercept", it would only apply against touch or aimed spell. If they spend a Reach to do pattern-targeting, it'd bypass the merit completely, since it never actually travels from caster to target - the effect originates at the target.
>>
>>44591681
Ah yes. Demon. That game I never enjoyed nor wished to play.
Shame that both demon games have been meh tier. Fallen had amazing lore, yet shitty mechanics. Descent had a neat concept but it doesn't have very sensical powers for what the game is about.

>>44591691
>Ephemeral entities.
So are you just the go to guy for spirit beings now in CofD?
>>
>>44590616
That was me, anon, assuming you're referring to yesterday or so.

You're welcome!
>>
>>44591691
>Ephemeral entities.

Will Mage 2e contain a significant amount of new or different material on the subject than the new CofD corebook or Werewolf 2e?
>>
>>44590616
>Fucking Mages.
>Whoever suggested these APs, you rock.

All the mage did was simply read the eddies of Time and Fate.

However, if she really cared about the girl who will not be born, she would ensure the young boy is horribly injured in the auto accident and suffers a long a painful recovery. Anything less would just be selfish...
>>
>>44591681
I just want them to have fixed Angels. They're so toothless as written in the core compared to Demons.
>>
Can someone explain what Goetia are to me?

What Arcana do you use on Angels?
>>
>>44592068
>What Arcana do you use on Angels?

Spirit, though an argument could be made for Prime and /or Matter.
>>
>>44590995
Nifty. It's by RAW just one of the Mysteries, but I like to allow it to basically be any Rote or even other powers like Vampire Disciplines or whatever.

Although honestly the mechanics are a bit wonky and every power gets it's dot rating in dice bonus. The way it works is neat, though. It costs 1 bashing (or Lethal) the first time it's used in a scene.

>>44591385
>I'll have my ST look over it and see if it's what he's looking for.
Honestly, there's not really enough to use it for a full game yet. I'm currently writing out more detailed versions of the Manifestations (though only one power for each Key at the moment).

>>44591681
Crossover? Geist? Tell me more.
Also, didn't you write a few fluff stories?

>>44591968
How so? Aren't even the weakest ridiculously strong?
>>
>>44591927
ABORTED BY FATE. IMAGINE THE TRILLIONS OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN ALLOWED TO BE BECAUSE OF THE BASTARDRY OF DESTINY!
>>
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>>44592068
>Can someone explain what Goetia are to me?
Inner demons. Specifically representations of aspects of your personality (most commonly vices, but can be other things).
>>
>>44592088
>Aren't even the weakest ridiculously strong?
No, not even close. Rank 1 and 2 Angels are basically tissue paper weak compared to a starting character Unbound.
>>
>>44592091
Yeah someone should write a poem about it to really nail the point home
>>
>>44592119
Thats how all ephemerals are. Rank 1 and 2 spirits are the rats and kobolds of werewolf

The problem with the angels is that if they get away they can summon help, and if they gather in numbers they can bring you down (or force you to start exploiting/revealing yourself)
>>
>>44592123

Only if the poem is in classic Greek or maybe Italian.
>>
>>44591746
I don't think I am, no!

>>44591862
I dunno what you consider as significant, but the e entity rules cover the stuff needed for Mage which is a bit different to other game lines.
>>
>>44592068
>>44592104

Goetia are no longer just a mage's inner demons in Mage 2e. I believe the term now incorporates all ephemeral entities from the Astral.
>>
>>44592206
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
>>
>>44592257
not the Horrors from Beast
>>
>>44592091
You mean every single sperm that doesn't fertilize an egg, ever?

There's many more than trillions.

Hell, if I remember my numbers right, there's trillions per male with testicles.
>>
>>44592315
That's the joke, bruh. But fair enough on the numbers.
>>
>>44592248

So, I guess we should now call you "Chris 'Twilight' Allen," master of all that's ephemeral in the nWOD, errr... CofD.

>I dunno what you consider as significant, but the e entity rules cover the stuff needed for Mage which is a bit different to other game lines.

Mage of course must include additional rules for astral entities, but is there a lot of new spirit or ghost info and rules not in the new corebook or Werewolf?
>>
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>>44592315
Yeah, there's trillions in my sock, dead of exposure.

Don't worry, at the end of time the Inquisitor will take care of it
>>
>>44592370
He's the werewolf guy. Pretty much the sole source of werewolf sneak peeks and hints and cool tidbits
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