>HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
>HHG RULES - https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
>Xenos in 30K Homebrew - https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30k
>First for you need both these books
Do I really need both if I wanna play Space Wolves?
Cool, that's what I like about 30k Space Wolves.
What are some weak units in 30k? I want to look at them and compare them with similar units (same slot, role, or points) and try to understand why they are weak. Trying to get better at evaluating units.
Just finished some Alpha-Looted Pyroclasts. Thoughts?
>Not seeing the Alpha Legion Dogs
>Not Purging them with fire
>Are you even Salamander.
>FW happy with points cost for units, just going to tweak rules
How are they going to salvage Assault Marines? 25 points a head for the initial 10 is a lot to pay for a standard marine with a jump pack, pistol, and chainsword. Ever since 30k came out, between the games I've played and the hundreds of lists I've seen over the net, I can count the total number of times I've seen a person take AMs on one hand. And it was strictly for fun in a list geared towards only that. While that's fine, no one can say AMs are well-priced. They have great options, but thats just making those expensive basic marines even more expensive. It doesn't help if you take a full 20 either, at that point the unit is over 500 points for 20 marines have minimal range game and above average melee.
The only way I can see them getting saved, dropping the base cost 50 points would have been the easiest and most effective, is that they get a melee "Fury of the Legion" with minimal drawback and the next 10, as well as their wargear is *substantially* discounted.
I'm talking 1 point combat shields, 5 point power weapons and special pistols, 25-50 points for squad-wide meltabombs, and additional marines 10 points. It won't save the first 10 from being overpriced though. They'll just be bloated, but 20 might be doable.
Unless you fight a typhon, fellblade, or other pie-plater.
Who else has concerns?
Honestly I think designing them around the 20 man potential like Tactical squads was the mistake. Like, that meant that they had to be thought of as competing with tactical, but, well, they're supposed to be more specialized so they should cost more and now we have a mess.
I would have made them a more reasonably priced 10 man squad so that you can use them, but you can't spam them like tacticals, giving them a different niche. Then I would have said that like maybe Blood Angels can take a special kind they can spam in blobs of 20.
Recons just need to lose Support Squad and I would use them over tacs. At least for RG.
Destroyers aren't bad, they just cost too much initially, 30 points a head, and their pack upgrade cost is too high.
Breachers need a defensive buff like how tacs have Fury of the Legion. Maybe a once per game reroll all armor saves.
Raven Guard AMs have furious charge. I still don't touch them. It's not the legion, it's the AM unit, see >>44558242
They just cost waaaaaay too much.
ha you alpha legion fucks cant fool me! i know those flamers are really ice cream makers and that under that armor its just techno monkeys and tyranid ripper swarms, ya cant fool me bucko!
Tell me /hhg/,
How do you run generic legion terminators?
What numbers and loadouts work for them?
Are they viable as troops in Pride of Legion list/with Golg?
Or should they just be ignored in favor of legion specific units?
Fists and Combi-Plas charging out of an assault transport of some kind. You want to be right on top of your target if you plan to charge them as well.
I'm RG so I do 2/3s with a Ravens Talon and the rest with chainfists for S9 armourbane attacks.
Hey, tg how do you correctly handle alpha legion headhunters. I want to run them and make them worth their points, but i cant seem to find a roll for them that isnt taken up by either seeker squads which have better equipment or vet squads with sniper which shoot things better.
Is there any way to buy just the Proteus sponsons? I got an old Mk. 1 land raider and the sponsons on it are broken. I could fix them, but I don't much care for the look of the old guns and want more modern style guns.
Would 10 man recon squad in a rhino be better than 10 tacticals? I'm working on making a small contingency of Marines as allies from the BaC box and after filling out the mandatory Troops with a 20 man tactical squad, I don't know what to do with the last 10 models.
So I was looking to model my world eater tacs with pistols and chainaxes but the ones from forgeworld seem a bit fiddly. Does anybody have experience using them? They also don't seem to sell bolt pistol packs unless I'm just being retarded.
There's only been rumours really, but resulting from folks chatting with the designers. No word on points cost but expect: double-digit hull points, transport cap of 40, 2 void shields and shitloads of melta.
They have a few advantages: first of all they have infiltrate natively in case you want to do a different mutable tactic with coils, second they have AP 3 rending melee, third they have HoW, fourth is that they have preferred enemy infantry with BS5.
They work really well with counter attack if you choose it.
They're a fun unit
How are dreadnaught armies? I'm thinking of throwing 8+ dreadnaughts on the table for a game and was wondering which legion and what set ups for dreadnaughts are winners.
I have a talon of normal dreadnaughts with Grav fist arms for my World Eaters which have been fun to run forward.
What do you think?
might want to put a wash on the silver bits if you haven't already. Shiny is fine on most units but these guys are 100% flames so i dont think they would look clean after a couple of shots. but other than that great!
Have to check what Legion Rules affect Dreadnaughts - can't recall if any of the legions have unique rules for them. Smashy World Eater dreadnaught force sounds pretty fun though
Not sure about best, but the Salamanders' RoW gives all vehicles a 5+ invulnerable against meltas, including melta bombs, un top of the usual +1 str to flamers, including the built in ones for dreads.
I'd never thought about a third party site, thanks for the tip. I suppose I could just use despoiler squads. I feel like such a tit for overlooking them, I guess I just ignored them because I thought they where legion specific.
sup /tg/, I made an impulse buy.
I bought recently
- 5 Firedrakes
- 5 Pyroclasts
- 5 Mk2 Assault marines
- 1 Salamanders Contemptor (2x CCW)
Can someone help me make a Salamanders legion list that will utilize all of this?
I'm thinking Orbital assault.
Would 2x10 tacticals (fist, combiflamer, artificer) be adequate troops?
What can I use the jump pack guys as?
How does one best use Pyroclasts?
Threadly reminder that Salamander Destroyers are a totally legit thing that absolutely exists in both fluff and rules. You simply take them as allies for somebody else. The only restriction is that a Salamander *Primary* cannot use them. Whore them out to some Auxilia and Vulkan stops caring apparently.
>Istvaan Campaign Red Book
This book will see the biggest changes. Several Legion-elite units are having rules tweaks but not points value changes, as they are under-performing compared to newer units. Units like Phoenix Guard and Justearin are top of the list for changes. The original four Legions from Betrayal are also having some of their Legiones Astartes rules tweaked but not massively changed. Emperors Children for example are going to have more advantages if they charge in assault whilst Sons of Horus are having Merciless Fighters changed. The SoH rule has gone through a lot of changes of which one possible change could be bonuses with certain weapons like pistols and other weapons not mentioned, at short range. I didn't get details for other changes.
I think i've figured it out.
They will just be random Centurions joining the Firedrakes, as they can DS.
Also, stupid question for a non-OA list.
Firedrakes may be taken as a command squad.
Does that mean a non-prime Apothecary can join them?
Yes, you can add Apothecaries to Command Squads.
>Crusade Imperialis Red Book
This will contain all the army lists from Solar Auxilia, Militia and Warp Cults as well as Knight Households. Simply put - everything that does not already have a Red Book available. No planned changes, may have a few rules tweaks but probably not any points value changes. The new Knight chassis' like the Warden will be included as well as the up-to-date wargear like the Gatling cannon.
So it turns out that FW is basically reworking some of the clunkier aspects of the legions, especially the first four.
What do you actually want changed from the legion-specific rules and units?
>>Infiltrating RG Black-opsnoughts
"Brother, did you notice movement over there?"
"No brother, that is simply a small building shifting position"
Joking aside, Infiltrating dreads would be terrifying. Imagine doing that with a Leviathan Dreadnought, or a WE Leviathan with the LA rule.
Sons of Horus get PE: Warlord and their attached unit. Reavers can charge from Outflank. Justaerin get W2 and Banestrikes. Abaddon gets EW added to his Fate rule
Raven Guard can get a blob of 5 infiltrated Castellax with a Praevian.
>Autowounding NL dreadnoughts
Exactly my point, making Banestrike Bolts much more powerful would have a big effect on AL as well as Sons of Horus. If AL is considered ok, I'd change something else for the SoH to benefit them more, rather than empowering AL as well.
OK Guys, wrote up my 2k word bearers containing mostly stuff I think looks/is cool. Having problems increasing it to 2.5 and then 3k though - I know i want some daemons in there but i don't know if i want to go the Belakor route (Belakor, 15 lesser daemons at 2.5k) or nurgle with the option to have a nurgle prince in Heavy support at 3k.
Word Bearers Primary Detachment
Zardu Layak 275
Anakatis-Kul Blade Slaves, (Cursed Earth, Sacrifice)
Legion Centurion 140
Chaplain, Burning Lore (Biomancy), Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Melta Bombs
10 Gal Vorbak 395
Dark Martyr, Artificer Armor, Power Fist, 2x Power Weapons
Legion Tactical Squad 150
Legion Tactical Squad 150
Dreadclaw Drop pod 100
Legion Spartan Battletank 340
Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield
Lords of War Detachment
Lorgar Transfigured (Precognition, Psychic Malestrom, Objuration Mechanism)
They might've been good when they were first released, but since then there are better flyers or just more effective Anti Air units that really reduce the Fire Raptors effectiveness.
While I acknowledge that the Death Guard are a perfectly viable and bordering on quite strong choice, I have my own wish list
Stuff that will probably (hopefully) happen:
>Durak Rask has Target Priority out of the BRB
>Grave wardens can use their shoulder mounted stank flamers and fire their grenade launchers (just like termies with cyclones can)
>The toxin special rule doesn't suck ass
Stuff that will probably not happen
>death shroud can switch between scythes and power fists (this one might be too much, i'll admit that)
>Buying rad grenades becomes part of the special wargear section instead of being tied to the reaping ("because we need these when we spam heavy squads, but in a, assaulty army, naww" - Mortarion, probably)
>The reaping gets some other awesome new effect, like heavy squads gain S&P or relentless (I have this dream of tons of multimelta marines charging into the enemies teeth, so sue me)
Mauns dedicated transport can start with an attached unit inside.
I wouldn't mind if a Mor Deythan shade can take a power weapon.
I would love infiltrating dreads, but FW has a habit of giving redundant rules, see NL Praevian options, so I imagine they would get Furious Charge so those S10 attacks can be S10 on the charge. Or if you ever want to charge with Mortis dreads for whatever bad reason.
Yes they are. Don't listen to the others. Exactly one aircraft came out since then and it's good at killing ALL flyers. And if a Deredeo is unscathed when your flyers come in, you need more AT.
By strict RaW, Maun cannot take a squad in his ride. The transport rules allow an IC to start inside a transport belonging to a unit, but not the other way around. By the rules you cannot simultaneously attach Maun to a unit and also have them all in a dedicated transport not owned by the unit.
> Nobody really gives a shit and very few people even realise it's an issue.
> Maun is far better infiltrating anyway to get his Nightfall in position for a Pod rush.
>What do you actually want changed
>Maun can take a unit with him inside
Also for things like Planet Strike as attacker, having Mauns rules work would be great.
I was not aware Layak could choose his powers. I'd say it was intended to mean he can generate his powers from Daemonology, but I guess RAW is RAW..
Army is a little empty though, one pod with everything and one spartan with everything else. Your Tacticals are forgotten, I'd do something with them. You are also critically low on anti-tank, apart from some CC.
As for Daemon allies, I like Bloodthirsters.
Do not listen to this person. For slightly over 200 points you get a strong flier with good AV and HP, resists melta (always take ceramite), independent tracking autocannons (you DID replace the heavy bolters right?), missiles (to help negate weapons destroyed results of course) and a BOLT CANNON (7 SHOTS OF AP3).
Fire Raptors are one of the more broken LA units in the list.
True, but unless you're going orbital assault, deep striking an army of dreads is both expensive, since you can'tgive them regular drop pods normally, and will get you less dreads per slot, since, for the dreadnought drop pod at least, you can only buy them for talons of 1.
>You'll have to pray to the Emperor himself to find something to do with assault marines.
Give them standard backpacks and use them to add a variety of poses to your other squads.
No, you can use Firedrakes in place of a command squad. That does not make them one.
You want them joined by a prime anyway, one with Cataphractii Armour and a Dragonscale Shield...
As for your jump packs, use the bodies for fun poses, save the packs for a rainy day.
I want Phoenix Terminators to be able to bypass the "no Sweeping Advance" part of Terminator Armour. It feels so stupid to take a legion-specific unit that can't benefit from part of its own Legiones Astartes rule.
I think Calgar's terminator armour allows him to Sweep. So having a special legion unit in a more refined terminator suit to enable such a thing wouldn't be that out of the question.
Really ! fuck that is awesome alright one last question if i had a squad of head hunters who can infiltrate and i join them with a character who does not have infiltrate can the squad still infiltrate ?
So, for anyone who cares, I've made a small update (mostly to the Orks, as they got the most feedback) in the "Xenos in 30K Homebrew".
A single "Relics of the Dark Age of Technology"-grade item of wargear was added for each race, in particular the Ork one allows the near-primarch-equivalent Overlord to get a 4++ (with some drawbacks).
For people who like the story that Orks of the Great Crusade era were generally bigger but used more primitive tech, the Green Storm RoW has been modified to allow Nobs to fill any Troops selection (completely replacing Boyz), and Big Squiggoths can be taken as a transport for any unit that can take any other transport. Big Squiggoths can also be taken in greater numbers generally as playtesting shows that this isn't a problem in the 30k; compared with Castellax they're something like the comparison between Terminators and Meganobz. Cyboar riders were added too.
For people who complained about being unable to run mechanized lists due to increased minimum squad sizes, a rule has been added in the style of the old transport exception for the 2nd-edition battlewagon.
For people who complained about the expense of playing this because no-one has enough Meganobz for a minimum-sized unit and no-one will buy anything for a Homebrew ruleset, I haven't fully addressed that at this time. On the one hand, I do want people to playtest this; on the other, I'm skeptical of the validity of the point; I'm playing with 40 Meganobz, 6 Big Squigoths and 2 Garganutan Squiggoths (not to mention all the other stuff) that are used for Apocalypse games. It's not like even the smallest Legion or Mechanicum lists aren't costing hundreds of dollars, and the majority if not totality of their existing Space Marines units are completely unusable. If you want to recreate 30k battles, there is some expense involved, which for Xenos players can at least be recouped in Apocalypse. If you don't care about 30k battles... there's no need to care about this homebrew?
The entire reason people play 30k is because they don't want to play xenos.
Xenos whine about marines in 40k then try to intrude on 30k? The fuck is up with that dude.
Orks, Daemons, and Dark Eldar only
MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY
>The entire reason people play 30k is because they only want to play marines.
>The fuck is up with that dude.
People coming to non-HH threads to brag about how much better 30k is and how you should totally play it, then when people do want to play it (with their armies), 30k fags go "what happened?"
I play 30k because purple and gold perfectionist marines don't exist in 40k.
I'll gladly welcome anyone playing homebrewed xenos, as long as they adhere to the fluff and put some effort in.
>The entire reason people play 30k is because they don't want to play xenos
No, I love Xenos and the setting would be more shitty without them. I just have much more confidence in Forgeworld than GW when it comes to not fucking up the game. Also, 30k currently has much more superior aestehtics and rules than 40k has.
>People coming to non-HH threads to brag about how much better 30k is and how you should totally play it, then when people do want to play it (with their armies), 30k fags go "what happened?"
Literally never happens in 40k general, because too busy whining about Tau or how bad CSM/Orks/Tyranids are.
Just saying that I latched onto 30k because it has become increasingly obvious that GW is not gonna unfuck what they are doing with 40k. With GW prices being what they are I might as well buy FW stuff.
Yes it has. I've seen people shit on 40k and advising people to start playing the much better 30k. They're usually ignored, but it has happened. So what do you expect people to do? Of course someone's going to start playing 30k and maybe they'd like to see the army they like in 40k represented in 30k as well. Outside of Tau and Tyranids, all the xenos existed during that time.
If someone likes a 40k army that's not in 30k why would they play 30k that makes zero sense.
I like pizza. I hate vegetables. Somehow you're going to claim I was persuaded to eat tons of vegetables and now I want a vegetable pizza?
You can honestly use Tau to represent some Xenos faction the Imperium was wiping out or decimating during the Great Crusade. Surely Tau doesn't own the idea of mechas and lots of guns. Tyranids also works fine to represent generic alien monsters that doesn't have machines.
FW should do a Great Crusade Minor Xeno Army like the Imperialis Militia, one that is customizable for almost any type of Xeno from a low tech horde similar to orks to a high tech army like the Jorgall or Kinebrach.
And all the non-marine players who aren't massive marine haters? I know it's a hard thing to fathom, but I'm sure there's a few around.
That's why people are making ways to have xenos in 30k. Because, as I said, outside of Tau and Tyranids, all the xenos in 40k existed during 30k. Orks, eldar, necrons, etc.
They'll release Dorn in time for the Siege of Terra books, which is the only time he actually does something in the Heresy.
As for the other characters, half were never supposed to get models anyway.
I've always considered the megarachnid as a nid splinter fleet. They were described as being defeated and placed on that one planet. They also fit the description of nids pretty damn well.
I would like FW to make some Enslavers. I'm not sure how many of them were around for 30k, though, but it seems kinda lika a shame that we don't have minis for them at all.
Sure, there's loads of possible proto-tyranid forces that existed long before M41, but tyranids as we know it didn't exist until Fall of Tyran. Before that it's a rose by any other name.
Were were rules, some fluff and a conversions in the old days.
>Outside of Tau and Tyranids, all the xenos existed during that time
While true, you can always say that they encountered some random technotribe or feral system of spore creatures. 'Historical' accuracy only goes so far as the setting. When you get to the actual game you can find two loyalist Luna Wolves being led by Loken fighting each other. Because it is a game after all.
This guys gets it
thats the coolest fucking thing ive seen in a while. Ok next campaign I'm doing is going to have a dinoplanet with feral dinos randomly showing up. Yes.
Look, you can call your Tau and Tyranids what ever you like, but in 30k they are not Tau nor Tyranids. Even in M41 the Tau are mostly isolated to their little empire at the ass end of space and Tyranids as we know it didn't exist until the Fall of Tyran, which earned them their name and brought the concept of the Tyranids to the Imperium's knowledge. Before that they were just some alien monsters or what ever.
Meanwhile orks, eldar, necrons, etc. existed as themselves during 30k. Though Eldar probably had a bit of a different organization. DE likely had more empire tech and military at their disposal and craftworlds were probably closer to corsairs. Necrons were probably small scouting forces keeping tabs on the galaxy as their masters slept.
>missed the point entirely
Yes we all know that. And if anyone didn't before they learned from previous posts.
The point I was making is that you can pretend your pretend aliens are a different pretend race than they are in their actual pretend setting so you can use them in a different pretend setting. All it takes is a drop of imagination and Tau go from Tau to Random Mechanized Crusade-Era Alien Race that was encountered and fought how ever many times you play with your friends and that was it. Compared to the hundreds of thousands of battles fought during the heresy.
And my point was that someone who enjoys Eldar and their lore, would probably like to play the Eldar during 30k and all the lore induced changes to their rules and style of play, even technology.
Meanwhile a Tau player can't really do that, since they didn't have any presence during HH. You can take the rules and models and field them as not-Tau, but you can't field them as THE Tau during 30k. That was very much my whole point from the start about why a non-marine player might want to play 30k.
In the aftermath of the Fall, there was bound to be more super tech of the empire floating around. Craftworlds weren't so locked on their paths, so units could be more mixed and varied. The DE probably had a more dedicated fighting force and weren't such genetically engineered emotional vampire gladiators.
It's not that the basis of the technology has advanced or regressed, but how that tech is used. SM Chapters are not the same as Legions, even though they got pretty much all the same shit. Army and Guard are not the same, even though flak and lasgun can be found in both. Etc.
Anyone who plays Tau in 40k is going to want to import their formations, and full blown retard rules to HH. Thats why most of us arent too keen on the idea.
If you want to play HH, use an HH army.
But lets be real here, any shitsucking waac faggot thats so into his Tau, Necrons, or Eldar that he wants to bring them into HH- is going to find HH too bland or boring. So they should just stay in 40k with the rest of the mouthbreathers, because that 'game' is specifically designed and marketed to retards.
Would something like this be ok for an indomitus suit reaper autocannon conversion? Thinking of using the SW assault cannon with the ammo chute and backpack mounted ammo bin.
The point they're making is that if you're playing a game using the Battles in the Age of Darkness expansion for Warhammer 40,000 you use the Age of Darkness FOC and rules. That is a primary with optional ally and fort. Those are already the rules. There is no importing formations.
The point of the exercise is to modify xenos to work intentionally within the expansions rules.
The inverse if you're just using a 30k army in 40k, then there's formations, unlimited detachments etc. Even for Legion marines.
I have some questions regarding drop pods- looking at the Forge World website I do not see a standard drop pod for sale, does this mean I use the 40k drop pod model in 30k? Also The drop pod rules state that when the drop pod lands the doors open to their full extent, but the squad does not have to immediately disembark. What exactly does this mean rules wise? Does the unit get a cover save, does the opponent need to destroy the drop pod to get at the unit, or does it just mean they get nothing?
the "standard" drop pod sold in plastic is perfectly suitable for 30k.
They're basically the direct delivery version, with the more fancy FW Dreadclaws being the more tactically versatile.
My favorite legions are Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Salamanders, but I play Death Guard because I'm decent at painting Nurgle. Anyone else play a different legion than their favorite due to painting?
Nope. If you really like those Legions, you'll figure out a way to paint them. I play Iron Warriors, Mechanicum and Iron Hands. Granted the first two are not complicated to paint, but for the Iron Hands I did research and practiced doing Matthew Kane's technique to mimic the studio paint scheme.
Look, it's not a question of fitting some fucking marines in there, it's about that open doorway giving marines standing there in the open with some harnesses next to them an armour value of 12.
How abstract do you have to go to turn drop pods, designed for quick deployment of troops onto the field into AV12 bunkers? Because you'll need to abstract in some force fields or invisible folding walls on the doorways to provide cover.
>have 30K stuff
>scared to paint it because flashbacks to cost of acquisition
>have been working on every other thing I own in order to git gud
>temp finally dropped so now I can't prime anything else
>30K is just sitting in a big case in the dining room
>I no longer go in there
One day I will be pro. Not this winter.
Compare it to raiders which have no cover, Ghost Arcs which have minimal cover, speeders which are entire vehicles, or any other open-topped vehicle with passengers or crew exposed. It's a game. And this particular gripe is a losing one.
>Compare it to raiders which have no cover
It has railings you can duck behind.
>Ghost Arcs which have minimal cover
Shield and those pylons all around you.
From the front you can maybe see the crew's head and a bit of their shoulders. The rest is obscured by the hull of the vehicle.
>any other open-topped vehicle with passengers or crew exposed
I'd really love it if you could find where the occupants are as exposed as on the pods.
>And this particular gripe is a losing one.
Then why don't GW pods allow you to just remain in the pod, if it's such good cover?
>It has railings you can duck behind.
>I'd really love it if you could find where the occupants are as exposed as on the pods.
Have you seen raiders? Or Venoms? Let me remind you how little cover they have. If you can duck behind those and claim AV, then you can hide behind the fins of the drop pod and claim AV. Good enough for a game mechanic.
>Then why don't GW pods allow you to just remain in the pod, if it's such good cover?
Clearly you're just salty about pods being better in 30k and not actually arguing anything logical.
Only direction you could possibly get a shot in on the passengers on the raider is from the sides. On the pod, no matter hat direction you're firing from, there's always two marines in clear line of fire. Or are you saying the Marines run around the pod, always ducking to the other side for optimal cover? Funny how they can't do that once they take a step outside the pod.
>Clearly you're just salty about pods being better in 30k and not actually arguing anything logical.
Well it's nice of you to tell me how I feel about things. I'll do the same and say you just want to defend FW's honor like the white knight you are, because FW can never do anything wrong and all their decisions are sound and logical.
See, now you've over-played your hand arguing angles of fire on that paper skimmer. In a game that clearly doesn't care. I had been following Hanlons Razor but now it's clear.
gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8
You're the one who brought up abstractions and dudes taking cover (in thin air) to get the protection of the pod.
Oh really? So what did >>44588622 imply with:
>Clearly you're just salty about pods being better in 30k and not actually arguing anything logical.
Because sure as hell sounds like he's implying I'm salty that 40k pods aren't as great as 30k ones.
Uhh I'm at work so I can't check, can you not mix special weapons in specialist squads
Oh yeah duh. Unlike other haters I love the look of it, It's going on my pick up list
>Only direction you could possibly get a shot in on the passengers on the raider is from the sides.
Have you ever seen a Raider in person before? The only place for people to mount is to hang on the side.
There's a whole platform on there. You saying there's no space for a couple of dudes there?
By the way, what do you think of my plan for a Bastion here? Just slap on a few heavy bolters and it's perfect for all your AV14 housing needs.
>There's a whole platform on there. You saying there's no space for a couple of dudes there?
There's room for all of one dude to sit under the sail and hope they don't get domed by the boom.
The older models were a bit more specific as to where the passengers got to stand, though.
No shit. But good luck finding a single Tau, Eldar, or Necron player willing to give up their ridiculous advantages. The 40k tards at my flgs just want to use their formations and netlists in games vs. HH armies. That was my point.
Well, I'm sorry you're meta is shit. But as a 40k cron and 30k salamander player, I'd love to be able to occasionally put the crons on the table using 30k rules and balance. Sadly, the codex isn't balanced against 30k, and I doubt it ever will be. I hate the trend started by the 7th edition codex, and I really hate idiots like you who assume all players only play their chosen faction because of broken rules.
The ones on 1d4chan from a few threads ago? Yeah, and I've already expressed my gripes with them. The RoW for everyone thing bugs me and at the end of the day, I honestly want actual new lists, not slightly modified 40k codexes.
Also a fix for Rogal Dorn's shittyness
>Dorn's chainsword is not unwieldy
>He gets Relentless as part of his armor bonus
>Each turn he may choose to give any unit and the unit he's in one of these USR: Tank Hunter, Monster Hunter, Interceptor or Preferred Enemy.
RoWs are basically the 30k equivalent of formations, except that Forgeworld includes downsides to balance them, and they are oriented around making fluff-accurate forces work as competitive armies, rather than the GW strategy of just piling on bonuses to sell models. The homebrew ones in the wiki have been reworded to not be strict Rites of War, but more like the Mechanicum variant lists.
Completely new lists are loads more work, and aren't going to be seriously considered by anyone. By starting with normal lists and providing tweaks to bring them more into line with 30k rules generally and specific known forces from the Great Crusade specifically, a lot more people will give them a go.
For example, a vocal minority of Ork players resonate with a supposed conversation with a Forgeworld guy at an event, where he said that Great Crusade Orks used lots of Squiggoths and fewer walkers (and no Gargants, which haven't ever had rules outside of Epic). The "RoWs" are designed to make this kind of army both possible and viable. Necrons and Tyranids (as Megarachnid proxies) and Eldar have likewise been re-thought - the Eldar changes especially make quite different
>New lists are loads of work
Of course, and I don't begrudge anyone for not wanting to go for it. Lord knows, I have neither the time nor know-how for it.
>aren't going to be seriously considered
This however is a shit reason. It's homebrew, people will either take it seriously or they won't. I for one could take it less seriously by seeing it as a lazy attempt to port over xenos armies whole cloth, without wanting to actually build them 30k equivalents in the same way as the legion lists, questoris knight list, solar auxilia, mechanicum, and militia/cults.
I'm sorry to say but I need a bit more than that to give anymore feedback. I can guarantee that if I just try to read it all theough again I won't notice half the changes. Sorry.
>This however is a shit reason. It's homebrew, people will either take it seriously or they won't.
The trouble is, as much as GW has shown a complete inability to make changes that preserve any kind of balance, homebrewers have an even worse general reputation (deserved or not). Forgeworld is widely considered to be significantly more competent than GW, which counts against anyone wanting to homebrew stuff into 30k, particularly when it's stuff which has a reputation in 40k as being a huge part of the problem with that system.
>I for one could take it less seriously by seeing it as a lazy attempt to port over xenos armies whole cloth, without wanting to actually build them 30k equivalents in the same way as the legion lists, questoris knight list, solar auxilia, mechanicum, and militia/cults.
For a significant class of player, simply buying more/new models is one thing (and even that, they'd like to avoid), but scratchbuilding, proxying or substituting? Most aren't interested. This makes inventing new units and especially whole armies especially challenging; you have to capture the imagination of the person who's using the new content but also their opponent, for it to work. This is difficult generally, the "official" authors have a built-in (but by no means total) benefit when doing this, but even that is no guarantee. Forgeworld, who don't even routinely make models for every unit they invent, make it look easy (Mechancium is an excellent example), but it's mostly because they write excellent material, have an exceptional understanding of what they're doing, and have a captive audience who trust them - homebrewers rarely have those benefits, especially that critical final one.
>I'm sorry to say but I need a bit more than that to give anymore feedback. I can guarantee that if I just try to read it all theough again I won't notice half the changes. Sorry.
That's cool, you're not obliged to even look at it, it's just that you expressed an interest.
Neither are legion basilisks nor medusas, but drop pods are. YOU explain that.
I dunno man. That might be a tad big. Here's a to-scale pic. Might want to file off some of it. Shave it down a little.
I can do it too
So I am a total noob to 30k but I just got my betrayal of calth box in today and I am excited to start.
I plan of playing Space Yiffs, but I have a few questions: Should I wait for their kits to come out or just assemble the tacs without shoulders or heads and get them later?
From what I understand the marines in the box can be made into regular tacs or veterans (difference being squad size and the addition of special weapons?)
What ways are there to build a 30k army, do we have any clue what the Space Wolves will specialize in? What are some good ways to go about expanding a 30k force after the betrayal box?
PA protection from open-topped extended to passengers as well in the past. A few editions ago shooting from the top hatch of a rhino or chimera turned the vehicle into open-topped, but if you had PA or better, this didn't happen. Same reasoning was used to explain why land speeders are not open-topped.
Every army wants a core of tactical marines or veteran tac marines.
Veteran tacticals are good, but are often outshined by most other legion specific units in elites.
Alternatively you can start with a Pride of the Legion list and they become troops along side termis. It's the fastest way to go from BaC to tabletop and be a good army.
Bits-wise its up to you. If you go tacs they can be pretty plain as jsut line troops. As for veterans... You can blutac parts on or just wait. The kits could drop any week without warning. We got 1ksons out of left field so who knows when the wolves will show up.
Rules you'll be waiting a while on. Prospero is late this year.
Is the pintle storm-bolter the closest to a Godwyn style combi-bolter there is? Working on some indomitus conversions and looking to replace the storm bolters with more combi-boltery weapons. Went with Godwyn pattern bolters on my marines, so to keep up with the style a Godwyn style am looking for a similar combi-bolter for the terminators.
So Alivia Sureka is one of the true perpetuals alongside Olly and the Emperor.
While protecting her adopted daughter and a group of children from Chaos cultists she allowed a daemon to enter her to trap it. She thought to her self that despite all the cunning that was put in the creation of them (True Perpetuals), they were not above the lust for power and temptation. If she willed, she would take the daemon's power for herself but she did not want to. She only cared about her adopted daughter and the children. The daemon was unable to corrupt her or take over her body. It was left raging at the prison of flesh it found itself in.
This whole encounter raises interesting implications. If the True Perpetuals are created, then who created them? Who created the Emperor, Alivia, and Olly?
>If the True Perpetuals are created, then who created them? Who created the Emperor, Alivia, and Olly?
I'm not saying it was shamans.
But it was shamans.
I'm interested on knowing how, why create so many, why not make more, why Vulkan, what's the process like that it can't be done by anyone else, etc.
But hey, who am I to question the market appeal and IP?
But what I mean is wouldn't something like perpetuals fix a lot of problems the Eldar have? Surely they got the genetic engineering/psychic fuckery necessary to do something like that?
>Surely they got the genetic engineering/psychic fuckery necessary to do something like that?
You mean like the Dark Eldar birthing and regrowth chambers? Or the Spirit trees of the Pre-Fall Eldar?
The True Guardians and Exiles, the guys who became the Craftworlders and Exodites, abhorred the extension of one's life. Pretty sure the Craftworlders follow the same line of thinking.
>abhorred the extension of one's life
Only if you're a Thorpe.
>like the Dark Eldar birthing and regrowth chambers? Or the Spirit trees of the Pre-Fall Eldar?
No, like the perpetuals, who don't need any of that.
Some sand niggers in a mud hut could engineer better longevity that the Old Ones and their creations.
Because of the Eldar aversion towards prolonging their lives because it would lead to the culture of the Pre-Fall or them becoming like the reviled Dark Eldar.
So it all makes sense.
And here I thought it was the loss of connection with their gods that drove them to seek fulfilment elsewhere and their ability to be reborn was natural to them as is to any sufficiently strong psyker, such as the shamans, which made them strong fighters during the War in Heaven.
If prolonging your life is unnatural to them, explain the CWE obsession with the infinity matrix, wraith units, spirit stones, etc.
>What about it?
The infinity Matrix is about housing the souls of dead Eldar and protecting them from She-who-Thirsts.
A method that allows dead Eldar to continue fighting for their race. It's considered necromancy by the Eldar and it's reviled by the Eldar but desperation forced them to such measures.
Spiritstones guards the Eldar souls partially from Slaanesh's pull and also acts as a safety-net for dead Eldar souls, preventing them from entering the Warp where Slaanesh lays waiting
None of things you mentioned are about prolonging life but it's about dealing with the dead.
>What was the fate of pre-Slaanesh Eldar souls in this new Gavian world where prolonging your life is unnatural to the Eldar?
I dunno but I think they would cease to exist like human souls (but after a longer period) or they go to the Eldar afterlife.
The pre-fall protagonist in "Hand of Asurman" wanted to live one life and had no intention of prolonging it with Spirit Trees or any other techno-magical method
>considered necromancy by the Eldar
Only if you listen to Gav above all else.
>they would cease to exist like human souls
So why protect them? They'll be gone anyway, so who cares if they just disappear or get eaten by a daemon?
>Only if you listen to Gav above all else.
What? The Eldar seeing Wraith units as necromancy comes from the Eldar codexes. So it belongs to Phil Kelly.
>So why protect them? They'll be gone anyway, so who cares if they just disappear or get eaten by a daemon?
You should know this. The fate of all Eldar souls that enter warp after the Fall, is to be devoured by Slaanesh.
The Eldar souls become parts of Slaanesh, further empowering xir. Also the Eldar souls are not destroyed inside the belly of Slaanesh. The souls are subjected to eternities of torment and agony.
This gives the Eldar a good reason to protect their dead from that fate.
>The Eldar seeing Wraith units as necromancy comes from the Eldar codexes.
The same codex that says only some Eldar don't feel like it's ok.
Funny how the Wraith units are such an abomination, but the infinity circuit is a hallowed place for reflection and vehicles and suits of armour kitted out with the souls of the dead for help are not considered to be such terrible sacrifices.
In their legends Vaul took the souls of the dead and put them into wraithbone bodies to fight the Necrons, but now it's not ok, because of reasons.
>You should know this.
Not the way people who follow Gav's latest writings know it.
Well that raises the questi of what happened to those immortals that fell to freed etc
Heck Cyrene hasn't been mentioned since her resurrection lmao if she ended up still alive in 40k
Because perpetuals who die and reborn basically have their souls in the warp for a bit
Eldar used to do this routinely as well but with a new identity ala doctor who
With the Fall they get chomped in the warp due to link to the pervo- a link humans don't have
But the Emperor was created because the coming of Chaos was closing off warp regeneration for the shamans and thus they needed a more permanent housing, the Emperor.
So how are perpetual souls able to regenerate through the warp if the shamans couldn't? How is the cycle of warp rebirthing closed, yet open?
There's the Mastodon model coming. Stormeagle and Thunderhawk/stormbird are other high capacity transports Marines have. Unfortunately there's no intermediate capacity land raiders available for 30k. It's 10 all around.
Funny that even the Prometheus can't fit more dudes in with its heavy bolter arrays. The whole idea with the Crusader was to switch the lascannons and their generators for hurricane bolters and transport space. But replacing the lascannons, presumably their generators AND removing the hull HB did not provide the Prometheus any increase in capacity. I guess it's all the command stuff that takes up the space. It could have been a good chance for FW to make a land raider with a larger capacity without going Spartan. 12 models, maybe? Just enough to ferry a terminator squad and a terminator character.
Would be fun to hear this new expansion, because as much as GW tries to tell us there's a total internal consistency in everything, it sure doesn't show.
But hey, what do I know about market appeal and shit.
>vehicles and suits of armour kitted out with the souls of the dead for help are not considered to be such terrible sacrifices.
Those usually come off as more personal, they also may have never been placed in the Infinity Matrix.
If I recall correctly that is what is so bad about Wraith constructs, it's removing souls from the peace of the Infinity Matrix so they can fight.
How so? You're using them as auxiliary drives and jewelry. At least with the wraiths you get to have a body and stuff.
>may have never been placed in the Infinity Matrix
Why not? In the codex it says recovered souls are put into the matrix. Can't find anything about some just being locked away in storage and used for other purposes. Surely that, if anything, is more cruel.
With vehicles the Spirit Stone placed within it could be former pilots.
Weapon is a bit harder since the only one that came to mind off the top of my head is Asurmen's swords containing the Spirit Stone containing his brother's soul. However the lore for Dire Swords in the 6th Edition codex says they contain vengeful spirits, so maybe having their Spirit Stones placed in the Infinity Matrix proved problematic, thus relegating such Spirit Stones being placed within weapons.
When saying they may not have been placed into the Infinity Matrix I meant to imply that they would either immediately be placed in the case of a vehicle or in the case of a weapon have one fashioned shortly after death, if not done beforehand. The lore may support this because it's mentioned that in the case Wraith constructs being called upon, spirits are recalled from the Infinity Matrix to fill an empty Spirit Stone.
Maybe they are smaller souls less bright etc or have had some protection
Damian and John have both died so far and even chaos tainted like lucius and eidolon are rebirthing in 40k
Vulkan came back 100s of times from curze killing him
So yes there likely is some protection developed now
Originally no Exarch spirit stones were ever placed in the circuit - they were unable to abandon their Path even in death and were disruptive to other spirits. Also the whole point is that their suits and weapons (all Exarchs, not just Phoenix Lords) integrated the soulstones and therefore souls of its previous users.
This had changed at least by 4th edition, when a story mentioned Iyanna pulling souls from the circuit into soulstones for installation into constructs, and getting Exarchs.
That's good to hear. Especially since I really like the EC mk3 pads, although a big
Speaking of the emperors children, what to people use for power spears? The pheonix ones look awesome but I can't buy a bunch of termies just for the spears
they grey knight plastic kit comes with really nice swords (left, right +2 hand) and spears, plus you get 5 of each and the helmets would be good for sergeants and champions too.
Don't see a problem. Even the Calth box comes with a variety of pads, like pic related, which isn't that dissimilar from the mk. 3 pads.
I'm slapping regular GW shoulder pads on my Mk. 4s, since there's some in the GW ones that I like, and the rest is just to make it all look consistent (so no thin and broad trims mixed).
The gk looks like they have a great variety of bits. Thanks for the tip!
The astartes view on mixing armor is a lot more chill than I thought.
Now that you mention it the different size of the trims kinda bother me, gonna have to give this some thought
So, just realized I hadn't actually given my personal criticism as a cron player, so I checked to see if this had changed.
>New special rules
I like the general theme of them just waking up and so having slow and purposefull and changing it out for relentless with a character, however I don't get your explanation for why you included it. Nothing about either rule allows increases the volume of fire those units can put out, and while it does allow them too assault afterwards, tesla-equipped inmortals can anyway and you don't see that happening. You mention earlier you want assault to be more than just tarpitting, but that's exactly what charging my 20+ blob of warriors into the enemy would be.
Preferred Enemy while the character is in a challenge is cool, but it being limited to warriors and immortals means it probably won't see much use. I feel like I'd rather give warriors and immortals a shooty lord or cryptek and keep my melee guys in better bodyguard units like lychguard and praetorians.
On that note, lychguard not getting touched at all, not even as one of the bodyguard units for a phaeron, is disappointing.
Anyway, not trying to be overly critical, these are just things that stand out to me as I look at it and debate trying it out with a friend.
>The astartes view on mixing armor is a lot more chill than I thought.
The view of autistic armchair generals is always more dogmatic than reality, no matter if it's historicals or 40k.
Just look at all the legion bits and how they change the standard style of the armour, let alone legion specific units and their armour. All the suits don't come from one factory but from several different places and just like with vehicles, there's bound to be slight variations even though they're all, say, Mk. 4.