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Horus Heresy General - 30k

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Saturday Midnight Edition

>HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed) (embed)

>HHG RULES - https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS

>Xenos in 30K Homebrew - https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30k
>>
How can I make a full Terminator list work? Big squads out of fortifications? Small deep striking squads? Got 25 Terminators that I want to use.
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For those not with us a few hours ago, there are some news from the GW's 40th anniversary, more pics by following the link: http://battlebunnies.blogspot.hr/
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>>44527783
he looks a bit tanned.
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>>44527691

So is it true Book 6 is coming? With White Scars and Blood Angels? Or just a rumour?
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>>44528186
>Or just a rumour?

There are no rumors with FW, all the info we have is straight from their mouth given at FW open days or similar events. It has ALWAYS been true that the next book will have WS/DA/BA special rules and RoW along with shattered legion army list and errant knights plus RoW for every other legion.
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>>44528186
That book was up next, no change there. The difference is that they confirmed that the books are on the boat, so it shouldn't be too long until its released.
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>>44528430
>>44528257

Oh damn. Any info on when it'll arrive?
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>>44528495
Probably around the next weekender in Februari if I had to guess?
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>>44528495
February, it'll probably be out at the open day then sold on their site a couple of weeks after that.
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>>44527737
what model? Cata? tartaros?
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>>44529189
Indomitus and Catas.
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>>44529203
How many of each?

Which Legion?

I take it you are new, as terminators can't Deepstrike in 30k without special provisions.
>>
R8 my squats. This list needs a title.

HQ-

- Force Commander(Carapace armor, Planetary Overlord, Cyber Familiar, Melta Bombs, Survivors of the Dark Age, Abhuman Helots)-200

- Discipline Master Cadre(4x Discipline Masters, 4x Carapace armor, 4x Melta Bombs, 2x Refractor Field)-130


Troops-

- 20x Grenadiers(18x Lasrifles, 2x Rotor cannons, Power Axe, Advanced Weapons)-165

- 20x Grenadiers(18x Lasrifles, 2x Rotor cannons, Power Axe, Advanced Weapons)-165

- 10x Fire Support Teams(10x Autocannons)-250

- 10x Fire Support Teams(10x Missile Launchers, Flak Missiles)-300

- Reconnassiance Squad (Demo Charge, Sniper Rifles)-80
Elites-

- Medicae Detachment(6x Medicae Orderlies)-70

- 6x Sentinels (6x Heavy Flamers)-180


Heavy Support-

- 3x Heavy Ordinance Battery(Medusas, 3x Breacher Shells, 2x extra crew)-321

- 3x Heavy Ordinance Battery(Medusas, 3x Breacher Shells, 2x extra crew)-321

- 3x Heavy Ordinance Battery(Medusas, 3x Breacher Shells, 1x extra crew)-318

2500/2500
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>>44527737

Spartans and Mastodons.
>>
If you had an Alpha Legion army, what would you take for your Rewards of Treason? Iron Havocs deep striking from Armillus Dynat's rule sounds like fun.
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>>44530550
Tyrant Siege terminators would be better.
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>>44527783
The more I look at this the more it looks like cawcaw is startled and terrified by a single mehreen
>>
Armillus Dynat deep striking using Hammerstrike Assault with aome Destroyers.

Retarded or no? I have a counts-as Dynat proxy I wanna use and fluffwise my character for him favours proscribed weaponry. I have also wanted to field Destroyers since I first heard of him.
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>>44530706
Since I first heard of them, rather.

Also, what are your favoured loadouts for Lernaeans? I'm ordering Volkite Chargers to build my BaC Catapractii into them, and am considering Power Fists. Built my BaC Cataphractii Praetor into a Lernaean Harrower with Plasma Blaster, Power Dagger and Power Fist, but will probably reallocate the PB to one of his squad members. Just wanted to see if I could readily kitbash the PB mostly.
>>
>Some Info from the Bday Event:

Crusade Imperialis Red Book
This will contain all the army lists from Solar Auxilia, Militia and Warp Cults as well as Knight Households. Simply put - everything that does not already have a Red Book available. No planned changes, may have a few rules tweaks but probably not any points value changes. The new Knight chassis' like the Warden will be included as well as the up-to-date wargear like the Gatling cannon.

Legion Crusade Red Book
This is going to be a straight re-print with the latest units like the Leviathan, Xiphon, Damocles Command Rhino etc added. No points values changes as FW are happy with the points values but some units may have added rules or abilities to reflect their higher points cost.

Istvaan Campaign Red Book
This book will see the biggest changes. Several Legion-elite units are having rules tweaks but not points value changes, as they are under-performing compared to newer units. Units like Phoenix Guard and Justearin are top of the list for changes. The original four Legions from Betrayal are also having some of their Legiones Astartes rules tweaked but not massively changed. Emperors Children for example are going to have more advantages if they charge in assault whilst Sons of Horus are having Merciless Fighters changed. The SoH rule has gone through a lot of changes of which one possible change could be bonuses with certain weapons like pistols and other weapons not mentioned, at short range. I didn't get details for other changes.

Book 6
No collectors edition coming. Contains lots of Rites of War of which loads in other threads has been written. One detail on the White Scars RoW is that it will focus on bikes and other quick units. The other WS RoW is shared with the Shattered Legions and represents some of the tactics of the WS legionaries thrown out by Jaghatai for supporting Horus - these tactics are then picked up by "dodgy" Shattered Legion forces.
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>>44531858

Specialist Games
Forge World is effectively being divided into three parts all overseen by Tony Cottarel in an Emperor Palpatine-esq way (in my mind at least). One section is led by Alan Bligh and will continue producing all the normal 40k, 30k and Age of Sigmar that we are used to. Second section is led by Andy Hoare and is focusing on the traditional specialist games that we would recognise from the past like Necromunda, Blood Bowl etc. The final section is going to focus on Lord of the Rings. Each section includes the manager and three developers.

In terms of models, there will be a core focus in plastic in the starting box sets that will be designed by the SG department and then manufactured by the main Studio. Blood Bowl is currently in development but mentions were made about Adeptus Titanicus coming back to its roots of a Titan vs Titan game set in the heresy and additional Necormunda gangs made in resin. All of this is still in very early days of development and chat. The new department opens officially on the 18th January.

One final point is that the main GW Studio is not going to develop the Horus Heresy / Age of Darkness as that it staying within FW. This may include further plastics however as FW may be branching into plastic manufacture in the future as mentioned with the traditional specialist games above.

Imperial Armour 16
This is Red Scorpions with Ad. Mech allies fighting Tau on an abandoned Forge World. The Red Scorpions will have lots of Legion equipment like Leviathans and Kharbydis Assault Claws with 40k rules while the Ad. Mech will have a lot of the 30k vehicles ported to 40k without Volkite or Battle-Automata. Mention was made of possible resin Skitarii upgrades.
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>>44531880

New models
Corax looks much better painted and close up than he does in the pictures as do the new Raven Guard assault troops. The Ordinatus has been modelled with a volcano cannon and to my mind, looks better for it. The Warlord is getting new weapons - a plasma weapon and a siege claw with an inbuilt Vulcan Mega-bolter in the same way as the Contemptor CC weapons. Head hunters appear to be upgrades as opposed to new kit but it does confirm they only have combi-bolters. The Thousand Sons upgrades look great painted and the metallic FW scheme looks awesome "in the flesh". Can't wait to see this scheme on vehicles.

Book 7
This is confirmed for later publication this year. It has been confirmed as Prospero so get your flea powder ready for the all the VIth Legion froth that is going to emerge. Personally, I want to see Sisters of Silence and Custodes models.

Horus Heresy Masterclass Book
I almost feel dirty looking at this book as it is basically pornography for gamers. Does not contain full legion painting guides as we once thought but it does have the details for several key units and for Imperial Fist players, a good guide for painting yellow. It also contains guides for the two big terrain builds on the display boards like Calth and that looks helpful. Haven't had a proper look through it yet, but I'll squeeze a good look in later.
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>>44531880
>mentions were made about Adeptus Titanicus coming back to its roots of a Titan vs Titan game set in the heresy

I have to wonder if this will be for the current titan models or if they'll start selling their 3-downs version of those models as a box set, that would be baller as fuck.
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>>44531941
Lol of course it will be for their 6mm versions or whatever scale they decide on. If you know people with multiple 28mm Titans I'm sure you can post the rules over easily.
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>>44530113
Man, I wish SW would get some ranged terminator stuff so that I don't have to do this. I really like terminators, but hiding them away in a big expensive metal bawx is not my idea of fielding terminators.
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Hey, I'm a total newb to this game but I'm putting together a 2000 pt EC army using their special Rite of War. I'm a little curious if anyone has any advice on how to handle troops here. Do I go cheap for just guys in rhinos but risk a smaller initial force getting hammered? Would big flootslogging groups do better, or be too slow, even with the EC's extra speed? Should I try to minimize troops for Elites or Fast Attacks instead?

So basically, give me the low down on how Tacticals play in 30k
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>>44531880
>imperial Armor 16

What is Imperial Armor 14 and 15?

Hopefully Orks
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>>44532494

14 was Vraks

15 was Mymeara
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>>44532494
Why so you can watch the Orks get fucked up again?
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I think Deimos rhinos look like ass, and would rather use the tree as a half gorillion Mars pattern rhinos I hve available for 30k.

The only friend I have who plays 30k and I myself both do not give a fuck, but how common is the type of autistic player who would throw a shitfit about the use of Mars pattern (40k) Rhinos?
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>>44532755
All sorts of typos here, but I'm walking home from work and posting from mobile so give me a break.
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>>44531880
>>44531901

Well this all looks good to me. Too bad there was no Word on Dorn's model and looks like IF unique units (Phalanx Wardens do nothing for the price) won't get any rule tweaks either. Such is life as the 7th Legion...
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>>44532883
Dont worry bro, we got the best tacticals, vanilla veteran tacticals and beat stick.

I hope our new RoW is more offensive, would love to have one around devastators.
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>>44532400
>>44532400
You are playing Emperor's Children?

You pretty much need Artificer armor and a Spear on your Sargent at all times. This is so you can use your good initiative in challenges.

Then, the Vexilia is great.

You then either put 20 dudes on foot with an Apothecary, or you take 10 men and a Rhino/Drop pod (well, no drop pod without Orbital Assault).

If you do take a rhino, Dozer blade is mandatory.

It's definitely easier to start with the Rhino, although the rhino can't be expanded upon.

I'd start with the Rhino as EC for the speed and mobile wall, and that way you don't pay for 10 more tacticals that aren't your sarge (who will challenge).
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>>44532569
Wasn't Vraks IA 5- 2nd edition?

The last one was IA 11:2nd edition.
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>>44532755
When ever you encounter one of them, tell them to open Book 3 on page 127 and see pic related or Book 1 on page 147 for not only a Mars pattern rhino in the background, but a post Mk. II Phobos Land Raider (aka. normal plastic LR), and laugh at them. Point and laugh. There's also a Mk. V castaferrum dread in one of the books (aka. regular plastic dread).

I agree with the Deimos. I don't look down on people who do enjoy it, but I would have rather have them remake the old Rhino than this fan conversion.
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>>44532605
But Orks won IA8.
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>>44533131
You've definitely put me at my ease. Cheers, man.
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>>44533103

Thanks, that sounds pretty legit.
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>>44533405
Don't forget your extra CCW for your Tacticals.

Have fun
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>>44533552

Yup, that was the plan, make the most of the EC. Nothing on the rhino aside from the Dozer blade, eh?
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>>44533103
Is an apothecary how mandatory on 20 dudes? I'm making a small contingency of SM to ally with my Militia and want to keep my Elite slot open for future investments. I was gonna go with 20 foot slogging and 10 in a rhino as the Troops.
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>>44532569
>15 was Mymeara
But Mymeara was 11... It says "Second Edition", every other volume which says that kept its original numbering (Everything except the Vraks volumes 5/6/7, Kastorel-Novem 8 which hasn't been reprinted yet, and the Badab volumes 9/10 which haven't been reprinted yet).

Taros Campaign is still 3, Anphelion Project is still 4, etc.
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>>44532755
Forgeworld have specifically said that MKic Rhinos and MKiib Land Raiders were in service in limited but growing numbers across all legions during the end of the Great Crusade, and have specifically said it's fine to use standard plastic 40K rhinos and land raiders in legion forces.

It's not the core aesthetic they'll be focusing on for the vehicles and variants that they design for the period, but it is in absolutely no way historically inaccurate, and forgeworld don't think that should matter even if it was because all sorts of variants, from unique experiments to "missing links", were deployed throughout the legions of the time.

Buy legion-specific doors if you want to keep the beardiest players at bay, they look good and they aren't available for the MKic/MKiib variants.
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>>44534174
Excellent, excellent. I'll be running three 10 man tacticals in rhinos for the requisite 3 troops choices for Coils of The Hydra, and mounting my BaC tacticals in Mars pattern Rhinos will help.
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>>44533103

Okay, here's a good EC question for anyone.

Jetbikes look awesome so I want them. But what's the best way to use them? Should they be shooty, or should I try to use them to get a Praetor or Champion into CC? If I'm going either way, what's the optimal amount?
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>>44533936
Considering Imperial Armour hasn't had a number since 13, I don't think Forge World will be giving them numbers anymore. Saying IA16 is just a short hand since the book doesn't have a name yet.
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>>44533936
Where does it say second edition?
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>>44534451
holy shit everybody and their twin brother is doing Alpha Legion. is that the most popular legion now that BaC is out?
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>>44534965
I thought everyone was doing Iron Warriors
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>>44534986
Iron Warriors ARE Alpha Legion
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>>44534965
Once people actually get their models built and play them only to find out they're not that great I'm sure we'll see a drop in "Rate my AL list please!" posts.
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>>44535193
So what do you play? I've got two boxes and an open mind for what I should do with them. my only concerns are that I'm not a big fan of 30k tanks (the price tag, not the models) and I'm much more into boys > toys.
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>>44534627
The reverse cover, smartass.
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>>44535240
I have about 8.5k worth of Iron Warriors, 7k of Mechanicum and 3k worth of Iron Hands.

No idea how many points you can figure from 2 boxes of BaC but if you're completely against tanks then I hope your meta is only BaC. Otherwise you're in for a surprise when people just barrage the shit out of your infantry.
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>>44535193
I just like serpent imagery and the colour scheme. Not trying to jump on any bandwagon bruh.
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>>44535797
Good to see at least one other person chooses their army for the right reasons.
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>>44535838
I'm also not trying to jump on any bandwagon, I read Legion and the red books and it seems like AL is the most interesting...I'm just worried that's what everybody is doing = 10 AL armies at the same Bay Area store.
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>>44534587
>Saying IA16 is just a short hand since the book doesn't have a name yet.
Sure, but I still wouldn't count Mymeara as 15, as I said to >>44534627 , the reverse cover says "Second Edition" , and the inside copyright notice says "First edition published 2011. Second edition published in Great Britain in 2015 by Forge World, Games Workshop, Willow Road, Lenton, Nottingham, NG7 2WS".

If it's a republished book, I'd assume it has the same numbering unless they actually give it a different number. Vraks is unusual in that it doesn't have a number, but it consolidates three previous books, and practically all of the game content has changed. It's fair enough to call that 14 if that's what people are doing.
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>>44535921
Do whatever you want buddy, if FW calls it IA16 at the event, then I'll call it IA16.
>>
>>44531858
>Legion Crusade Red Book
>This is going to be a straight re-print with the latest units like the Leviathan, Xiphon, Damocles Command Rhino etc added. No points values changes as FW are happy with the points values but some units may have added rules or abilities to reflect their higher points cost.

Assault Marines forever on the shelf confirmed.

Even if they get a melee version of "Fury of the Legion" they'll still be over-priced. You can only buff a T4 W1 3+ unit so far. Now they will go from 'over-costed' to 'bloated' in points. 25 points for a single Assault Marine from the first ten is way too much. Dark Furies only cost as much as a pair of lighting claws and you get a ton of special rules.
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>>44535838
That's why I went Raven Guard in 40k, my friend. All this Damocles business has just been gravy on top.
>>
Dantioch :,(
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Mastodon rumored to be coming out in April with a price in the ballpark of 300 pounds.
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>>44536457
>300 pounds.

Its time to get a job.
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>>44536532
They better sell this gun separately. I'm not shelling out another £285.
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>>44536625
>baby's first dagger on the chestpiece
adorable
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>>44536600
>>44536613
>>44536625
>>44536651
Well, I'm glad I converted my own.
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>>44536717
Babby's first POWA DAGGA WATCH OUT SON

I don't actually know if those are power daggers or not.
>>
>>44536457
Is that front hatch studded with Khorne symbols?

Don't know overall. Feels like a G.I. Joe playset. I guess it's trying to be a wall breaching thing, but wouldn't it need speed for that? Like on an assault ram the meltas weaken the structure and then the craft punched through. But this doesn't feel like it's going to steamroll into a weakened wall. If it had just been an armed to the brim super-land raider, why not?

>>44536478
The turret feels weird. Like it's from a totally different universe. It just doesn't have that same punisher/assault cannon feel with the design. I can almost see that being sold by a 3rd party manufacturer.


But hey, something new, right? I'm sure we'll see alternatives of this. Here's hoping they'll make the Hercules heavy tank (with command variant) at some point.
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>>44536691
Holy shit.
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>>44536651
>>44536625
>>44536600
>those fucking combi-bolters

How do they work?
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>>44536691
>melta lance
>AV12 vs. 8+2D6
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>>44536883
>Is that front hatch studded with Khorne symbols?
no, they look like mini frag launchers
>>
>>44536820
Headhunters, so yes.
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>>44536931
It's an over/under semi-auto anon. Needlessly complicated when it comes to timing and magazine design, but doable.
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>>44537095
How does it feed? Because the magazine is at the bottom, so how do rounds from it get to the top barrel through the bottom one?

It's the Red Faction 1 SMG all over again.
>>
>>44536820
>S3
>melee
>>
>>44537126
Needlessly complicated timing and magazine design.

Lower barrel fires first, upper barrel has a shorter cycle and the feeding system is designed to be able to pop two rounds up. That's absolutely retarded and doesn't really deal with the single ejection port, but even in 30k this is still warhammer.

If I wanted to actually make it make sense, I'd just claim they're bolters rather than combibolters, and that's just a replacement barrel because Banestrike fucks everything up. Or an underbarrel venom sphere launcher.
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>>44535893

Well if you want sneaky infantry based armies, your options are Raven Guard, Night Lords and Alpha Legion, and Alpha Legion have the shiniest options.
>>
>>44537126
>>44537391
Guys I figured it out.
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>>44536883

Turret looks all right to me.
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>>44537426

Alpha Legions have ALL the options. They can pick every single legion unique squad and you can even get away with painting different legion colors for them.
>>
>>44535193
>>44535427
>complains about AL being popular
>chooses 2 of the most popular legions alongside the best army in 30k

I lol'd
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>>44538007
>Thinks there's objectively popular/good armies in 30k

LOL
>>
>>44538007

These plebs are the same fags who go all elitist about how 30k is better than 40k but they're literally just the scummy 30k equivalent of the 40k faggots.
>>
>>44538020
>doesn't think Mechanicum is superior to the average MEQ legion
>doesn't know how popular IW are or how strong certain legions like IW/DG/IH are

You must be new to 30k. Can you even name what those legion rules do? Because if you knew anything about the rules you'd know which legions are stronger and which are weaker. And if you've been to more than 2 30k generals you'd know how popular DG and IW are.
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>>44538059
looks like I touched a nerve.
>>
>>44538092
>i was just pretending to be retarded
>>
>>44537828
Not saying it's bad, it just doesn't scream 30/40k to me. I think it's the struts. It doesn't really need them. It could have just been beefy punisher style miniguns, but they added those struts to it.

They seem to be separate pieces, but the piece they're attached to, below the sleeve, seems fixed to the barrels. A little sawing, maybe.
>>
>>44538043

True. But I mean.... from experience, it kind of IS better than 40k, to be technical. Not everyone who states this fact is a fag.
>>
is there rules for the mastodon around yet? because as an iron warriors player, i can definitely say i have a tremendous boner for it
>>
>>44537391
They could have just given them regular terminator style combi-bolters. Or given it a side feed instead of a bottom one.

>I'd just claim they're bolters rather than combibolters, and that's just a replacement barrel because Banestrike fucks everything up. Or an underbarrel venom sphere launcher.

Or replace the bottom barrel with something beefier and use it as a combi-grenade launcher.
>>
>>44538020
>>44538059
I remember when 4/5 lists were Iron Hands before IW came out
>>
>>44537490
>100% more bullet per shot

Get outta here with your tech-heresy, magos Johnson!
>>
>>44538230
Good for you? I remember when there was no 30k...4 years ago.
>>
>>44538230
What's everybody playing nowadays?

Also noob question: I'm assuming if the primarch is part of your army he HAS to be your warlord?
>>
>>44538318
Alpha Legion

>Primarch rules
Also you know there's a book that can tell you what the exact answer is to that question right?
>>
Quick, design a unique non-vehicle Space Wolf unit that has nothing to do with wolves.
>>
Dark Furies are apparently 5 for 38 pounds
Corax is 70 pounds.
>>
>>44535973
Oh, I didn't know FW were calling it that. Why wouldn't they just number them officially if they're going to number them unofficially?
>>
>>44538451
Execution Squad. Unit designed specifically to hunt down and eliminate Marines. Can stock up on AP3 bolter and heavy bolters shells or power swords/axes for close combat.
>>
>>44538451
Huminn scouts. They have power armour with raven head crotches and assault sniper rifles.
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>>44538513
>38 pounds

That can't be right unless they're a conversion kit. If it's a complete kit, they should be closer to £58
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>>44536457
>price in the ballpark of 300 pounds.
That's great to know, if disappointing.

I was expecting £150 or maybe £200. It's basically 2 land raiders, which are £60-£80 each for forgeworld variants. Also, the Kharybdis is £150 and has a 20-man capacity, where it is basically the drop-pod version of a mastadon (gound) /stormbird (flyer).

Ah well, I guess I'll only be getting one (depending on the rules, especially transport capacity, I guess).
>>
>>44537230
How many times we gotta go through this?
>You don't buy a power dagger to replace a close combat weapon for the AP3, you buy it to pair with another specialist weapon - like a lightning claw or power fist - for +1A.
>>
Speaking of thing that are 38 pounds, would it be worth it to add a praevian with a Castellax to an AL list? I fucking love that robot model.
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>>44538595

It might be the pre-release price if they are selling them there. If they aren't (which I believe they aren't) then it's the "this price is not final or concrete" just like the 300 GBP quote they gave for the Mastodon.

I'm thinking they'll be the same cost as the Mor Deythan or Suzerains.
>>
>>44538289

Back when having pre-heresy armor from FW was a "holy shit drop everything" sight at the store because nobody really had them and FW was still super rare unicorn level shit and FW was just only releasing the RT heavy weapons and pre-heresy armor marks.

Good times but also bad times from all the FW not being allowed and 5E bullshit.
>>
>>44538714
They were on sale at the event. If people are saying £38 that's incredibly generous for a Legion specific unit.
>>
>>44538451

Just make some viking unit.

>nothing to do with vikings or wolves

So basically nothing to do with SW.
>>
>>44538609

I was also surprised at the steep price. My guess is it's a much more massive kit than the photos are showing us, OR they don't expect to sell very many so the price has to be higher to recoup costs, OR the price may actually go down to 250 or even 200.
>>
>>44538735

Kits for sale at events are typically cheaper than release prices aren't they? I could be wrong but I remember this from one of the FW weekend events where people were buying legion units for slightly cheaper and a month early.
>>
>>44538765

>>44536457
looking at the size of the marines riding that thing, it's fucking huge. If they can get away with charging £425 for a Thunderhawk, I'm not surprised the Mastodon is ~£300.
>>
>>44538778
Not usually, especially not as much as £22 cheaper than what the model would usually cost.
>>
>>44538451
Grey Slayers. Veteran Grey Hunters with 2 attacks, Ld9, Bolter/CCW, and True Grit.

This is a crummy thought exercise, though, because we don't have SW rules for 30k yet.
>>
>>44538869

It's not a particularly fancy kit though. All you're getting is Mor Deythan shoulders, some wings for the jump pack, and an alternate torso. All the legs and jump packs and arms and helmets are mundane, with only the chooser of the slain having unique claws and a bare head.

Compare this to a Suzerain
>>
>>44538992
Regardless, of complexity, it doesn't match their pricing structure at all.
>>
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>be me and I
>think of getting into 30k, decide imperial fists as they have good fluff
>oh wait.jpg
>all models look shit and are upgrade kits modeled by Israel Gonzalez.
>well, maybe alpha legion then, they look fun
>see pics >>44536651

Just fuck my shit up spaniard Jew man.

Also, isn't Israel the guy who didn't want to put the Templar cross onto his model designs becomes "Christianity shouldn't exist anywhere in the future"?
>>
>>44539354
Do an off-brand chapter from within the legion
>>
>>44539354
>playing fists
>using non-generic models
Heresy armies look better when they're largely comprised of basic dudes. Fists especially.
>>
>>44538595
>>44538714
>>44538735
>>44538778
>>44538869
>>44538992
>>44539037
Could it be that the legs, torsos, or other significant parts are BaC plastics? Or have people actually said it's full resin?
>>
>>44539953
It's 100% resin. They showed one off in a newsletter.

Maybe they got a lot of backlash for "purposefully premium pricing" with the Mor Deythan. Who are just alternate Recon Marines.
>>
>>44539953
To be fair, Ashen Circle and Night Raptors are also only £38 for 5.
>>
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>>44538765
> My guess is it's a much more massive kit than the photos are showing us

It's pretty big, looks almost as big as the thunder-hawk fuselage
>>
>>44536457

> 9 Melta barrels

Neat.
>>
>>44536457
April can't come soon enough, that thing looks like a beast.
>>
>>44541337
21 barrels of death.
>>
>>44536457
When you absolutely, positively, need to deliver a pile of terminators into a breach.

It has void shields too, the generators are just in front of the turret.
>>
>>44536478
>>44536457
Are those void shield generators?
>>
>>44541375
They look exactly like the nubs on the chassis of the Warlord, so I assume those are indeed Void Shield generators.
>>
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>>44541375
Seems so (warhound generator on top left corner of pic related). Two of them, so two void shield, most likely.
>>
>>44536203
Then how come dark furies are good with all their rules while assault marines can't be buffed because "rules bloat"
>>
>>44536613
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-PL/mars-pattern-warlord-titan-belicosa-volcano-cannon
>>
>>44541661
Don't know if the mounting is similar.
>>
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>>44541684
Its a big swinging hingey thing
>>
>>44527783
Corvegeta?
Cocorax?
>>
>>44530005
Title Suggestion: Oats

The units that recieve Disicipline Masters and Medics out to be noted in the list; you can figure out some but not all instances by deduction (ie which units recieve the Refractor Fields?).

Nice twist with the support teams, it's expensive but both are a threat and it keeps the enemy on their toes as to which will recieve Merchant Princling. Did the Squats use aircraft at all? If they did or it doesn't feel wrong for stunties in planes or whatever then perhaps a reduction to the sentinels and removing the Flak Missiles will afford points for a Thunderbolt fighter.

I've included Recon squads in my forces - they're fun and Militiat and Cults is not a balanced force really in any case - but I'd feel obliged to tell you that they're even more overpriced than Space Marine Recon squads. If ever you feel frustrated with a total inability to win games (unlikely with this list but y'know), cut them and aim for that Thunderbolt.
>>
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>>44541836
I don't know how well it goes to the mount on the ulator ordinatus.

Wonder if you could use a Dreamforge HEL cannon on the Ordinatus.
>>
>>44541223
palatine blades are only £34 for 5
>>
>>44531858
>tweaking rules before points
I like this for the most part, but I am really interested as to how they'll dice it with Justaerin.

Current Justies are only priced ridiculously for the first 3 - ie/ they have an obnoxious starting tax of somewhere over 100pts. (contrast that with Tacs and most units, which have 50pts, and vanilla Vets and Termies, which have a mere 25).

The cost of additional Justaerin is totally fine by contrast - 10 more points nets extra WS and Ld, unit-wide pseudo-character status, Stubborn, Furious Charge and more.

Suggests that spring to mind immediately include an aura benefit like Phoenix Guard, or Nuncio Voxes en-masse, such that the unit's value is chiefly in its prescence on-table at all with a modest survival upgrade per extra man. More than anything I'm really interested to see what they do with them.
>>
>>44531858
>The new Knight chassis' like the Warden will be included as well as the up-to-date wargear like the Gatling cannon.

I thought FW wasn't going to add those carapace guns into 30k.
>>
>>44531880
>Necromunda revival
As someone who has been faffing about with homebrew skill and equipment tables over the last few weeks: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Having an official product to which I might compare my spreadsheet-borne ideas is a massive bonus over the current ancient rules. And models. MODELS. I may start collecting again, for the first time in 8 years.
>>
>>44531901
>Prospero up next
Forgeworld have got it *just* right. They've put off Wolves v Psykers long enough to get us chewing the bit, while interesting us with the interim's releases. Then just before Prospero they release tantalisingly incomplete rules for the Dark Angels, White Scars and Blood Angels. BAM. Now what they can do is:
- Release the first Prospero book, covering some of the forces present in the initial conflict
- Release a book concerning one of the DAs, WSs and BAs - say Signus Prime
- Release the second Prospero book, going into more detail of groups like the Sisters of Silence
- Release eg/ the Thramas Crusade
- Release the last Prospero book, rounding off the conflict in detail and perhaps saving the Custodes/Primarchs till last
- One or two more books
- The Siege of Terra

It's an endless cycle of interest. Forgeworld have carved for themselves one hell of a release cycle.
>>
I have; Betrayal at Calth, two Blood Angels Tactical Marine box sets, two Assault Marine boxers/w Blood Angels upgrade kit, two Sanguinary Guard box sets, and two Sanguinary Priests. Is this a good start for a Blood Angels legion? I was going to grab some Forgeworld stuff eventually too.

Not sure what to run this as though, I've never played 30k before.
>>
>>44532755
By conflating autism for ignorance, you cheapen both as prognostics. Use whichever you like, both are legal.
>>
>>44537977
But big restrictions.
>>
>>44536883
Not if's got a battery of nine melta weapons, at least three of which are gigantic. You can trundle up to any building and just melt your way into it.

The vehicle is packed with features, giving it the vibe of a mobile fortress. It has the meltas for carve into the fortress, the flamer weaponry to scorch off garrisons piling out, long lascannons to pick off outflanking armour and the big turrent to smuch aircraft or barrage something a way away. It all adds up. GI Joe also likes to put loads of features on sets; does that make it a bad thing?
>>
>>44537391
Replacement barrel is the logic I've been using for about 10 years wrt twin-linked weapons in any case.
>>
>>44537490
It even actually fits the hydra theme. Curse you, Alpharius!

>>44538059
You're right and yet you're overstating it. The difference between the top, middle and bottom tiers of 30K are marginal next to the gulfs of 40K. That's why 30K's so balanced. Nevermind the fact that all armies are varied as hell and fun to play both with and against.
>>
>>44542090
>ono or two more books then jumping straight to the Siege
Frankly, I'll be disappointed if they don't continue milking this cow for at least 10-15 more years.
>>
>>44542096
In a month the blood angel book will be released untill then you might want to check out book 1 or the general army list.
>>
>>44538451
Axes, shields, special open-topped rhino. Viking party.

Bear warriors. (didn't say it couldn't feature other animals!) Multi-wound Terminators with Eternal Warrior. Paired Lightning Claw and Power Fist.

Scions of Baldr. Jetbike riders, use weaponry based on light (flaming lances, plasma cannons).

Consul Bard. Tricky bastard, can swap units around in deployment. Hit and Run, pinning PS shooting.
>>
>>44542096
40k kits have a quite mixed batch of suits with different style to FW kits. Truth be told, they'd make a good Siege of Terra era BA. The BA kits got stuff to make Mk. 4, 6 and 7 suits. Assault kits got mostly Mk. 7 with 2 Mk. 6 per.

If you want assault marines, take all the Mk. 6 suits (beaky helmets, legs with no knee pads and torsos with cables) and make them into assault squads. You should have 10, if you skip a few helmets. Try to give them all a studded left shoulder pad (BaC should have a bunch).

The Tactical box Mk. 4s could act as squad leaders for the BaC Mk. 4 marines with their fancy BA style armour. Throw some BA shoulder pads on the BaC models. This should get you 32 Mk. 4 suits. Compiling all the Mk. 7 suits from BA and assault kits would give you another 20 tacticals.

You could make two 20 man squads, one with Mk. 7 suits and one with Mk. 4. Last ten Mk. 4 suits could be used for a (heavy) support squad.
>>
>>44542237
That's the genius of the model; they can have their cake and eat it. Release book 1 of the Siege, THEN release another book detailing something the Shattered Legions are doing or what have you. Then Book 2, then White Scars vs. Dark Eldar or something, then Book 3 and so on. The model just *applies*.
>>
>>44542336
Indeed it does, not to mention the greatly unexplored Scouring and the Codex crisis.
>>
>>44542366
Imagine if Forgeworld didn't even stop there, and we got Warhammer 35,000. The Age of Apostasy, the first War of Armageddon. All the juicy middle-of-the-millenia stuff that happened after Emps died but before the cluster-fuck of the end times.
>>
>>44542311

I'll try that, I was going to get another Contemptor and weapon packs from FW. I also have drop pods but I don't know how period accurate the GW ones are.
>>
>>44542473
GW pods are fine. Though I think you need to take a RoW to make wider use of them. Also allows you to deep strike your terminators.
>>
>>44542473
The "modern" drop pods are fine, they're simply the direct delivery version. The Antillus Dreadclaw are the fancy VTOL version that can fly around, but it's relatively rare compared to the normal version. Though there are very few units that can use it off the bat outside the Orbital Assault ROW.
>>
>>44542396
>the first War of Armageddon
I have an Aegis Armoured boner.
>>
revised word bearers list, pls rate:
+++ The Unspeaking (2498pts) +++

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2498pts) ++

+ HQ (470pts) +

Legion Chaplain (135pts) [Artificer Armour, Burning Lore, Volkite Charger]


Legion Librarian (160pts) [Legion Scimitar Jetbike with Heavy Bolter, Power Armour, Psychic Mastery Level 2]

Zardu Layak (175pts) [Warlord]
····Master of the Legion [The Dark Brethren]

+ Troops (608pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (293pts) [18x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Power Fist]

The Ashen Circle (315pts) [Dark Channelling, 9x Incendiary]
····Iconoclast [Phosphex Bomb, Power Axe]

+ Elites (555pts) +

Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren (390pts) [9x Dark Brethren, 2x Power Weapon]
····Dark Martyr [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (165pts)
3 Laser Destroyers

+ Fast Attack (520pts) +

Legion Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (260pts) [6x Space Marine Sky Hunters, 2x Volkite Culverin]

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (260pts) [Extra Armour, Two Twin-linked Lascannons]

+ Heavy Support (345pts) +

Legion Spartan Assault Tank (345pts) [Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Laser Destroyers]

Zardu Layak goes with the Gal Vorbak in the Spartan, selects Cursed Earth for sure, and maybe the beam from Malefic.
Chaplain goes with the Tac Squad in the Eagle, rolls on Biomancy.
Librarian goes with the Sky Hunters and rolls on... i dont know. ideas?
>>
>>44538917
As someone whos first army was 13th company, you are my hero. Gold star for you sir.
>>
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Just finished Betrayer. What a book, left me wanting for more. Before I'm placing my next order, which one would you recommend /tg/, Thousand Sons or Angel Exterminatus?

I want some IW material but heard too much good about TS.
>>
>>44543241
I must admit to not reading TS yet, but I liked Angel Exterminatus a lot, so I'd say it won't be a wasted time if you decide on this one.
>>
>>44543241

>Nemesis in anything but mediocre tier

Thousand Sons is good, but pairs better with Prospero Burns, so if you're buying hard copy maybe save them to read back2back.
>>
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>>44543241
>Legion not in heresy tier
>>
>>44533831
I said that you must take the Blade, not that nothing else was worth it.
>>
>>44541929
Oh, right, I forgot that only 2 discipline dudes had RF. I'll scrape points to get the last 2.

I was planning 1 DM in each infantry squad, 2 medics in each HWT, 1 in each grenade squad.

I might just cut the Recons. my goal with them was to have them lob a demo charge at something.
>>
>>44530550
The key is finding out what legion specific unit is better than the vanilla counterpart at the specific role you want to fill. Iron Havocs, tyrant siege (expensive), and mor dethyan are all very good.
>>
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>>44531677
Its only mildly retarded. More rad is always good. You are just lacking protection. And its a lot of points to put on infantry (depends on the rest of list)

As far as Lerneans... I think you should take chainfists. It's one of the stronger benefits of taking terminators because of ceramite plating everywhere.
>>
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>>44532400
Tacticals can be good if placed well a turn ahead of time because of fury of the legion. Other than that they kind of suck. Spear and artificer armor is the best way to make use of your legion rules in CC- however, If you aren't planning on using them as an assault unit you begin to lose some of the benefits. Storm Eagle is a great place to put large squads of EC and it works well with their ROW.

Things like legion land speeders and fast armored units with lots of dakka are probably the best choices for Mara Skaru.
>>
>>44541836
Yeah that won't work at all
>>
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Am I just being picky or is this not white enough for world eaters? I'm having some trouble making my dudes not look shit and Duncans method looks simple enough.
>>
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is this seriously the storm-bird they're putting out, looks pretty bad IMO
>>
>>44544289
I have the feeling the WE white stands out more thanks to the blue in their colourscheme, WS are basically white all over with only few colour distracting from the white, so it doesn't stand out as much.

So go right ahead, use it, the colours are a guide, they're not the rules. Some variation is certainly not an issue, most will agree I'm sure.
>>
>>44544324
That's an early mock-up I imagine, needed a lot more refining for the final model, so I'm assuming it'll look better once we get to see the final version.
>>
>>44536457
Why are the marines wider than the hatches they are meant to be able to climb in and out of?
>>
>>44543241
Deathfire was pretty good in my opinion.
>>
>>44544289
I really like that shade of white but you've every right to be picky. World Eaters suit butchershop-tile white, while this off-colour fits more Luna Wolves, or the white portions of Raven & Death Guard armours.
>>
>>44543541

Hmmm. Any other recommendations for how stuff works? I'm just a little leery of loading on stuff to the metal boxes if they are just going to get blown up after serving their purpose.
>>
>>44533103
How should I go about modelling spears for sergeants? I don't know what bit to use.
>>
>>44544541
Grey Knights have some nice looking spears
>>
I love the idea of an artillery heavy RG ambush force with Maun and a Master of Signal. What artillery pieces / tanks would you recommend? I was thinking a squad of 3 basilisks could hide behind LOS blocking cover and only take up one HS slot allowing me to run Decapitation Strike still.
>>
>>44544511
That's kinda what I was thinking, I'm still somewhat new to this and can't seem to do white well at all.
>>
>>44544797
That ain't you. White is a hard colour to do well.
>>
>>44544398
I like your optimism, and I think you're probably right. Most of the time the final product is truly exceptional regarding HH, I really wish they had stuck with the original Red Butchers though, I thought they looked more like the original concept art imho.
>>
>>44544797
White is among the harder colours to do, so I wouldn't beat yourself up.
>>
>>44543080
anyone? would appreciate advice and opinions
>>
>>44541929
>Did the Squats use aircraft at all?
Squats used planes before anyone else did, the Iron Overlord and Iron Eagle were almost unique at the time for being flyers (Thunderhawks were the only major exception). Technically they weren't planes, but they were aircraft (a gyrocopter and a blimp).
>>
>>44541984
If Merciless Fighters is being changed, that might fix them just with that. If it allows them to double-up at I1, for example, they'd skyrocket to one of the best terminator units in the game.
>>
Question, doing Hammer of Olympia, do people prefer 3 blocks of 20 tacticals or 3 squads of 10 in rhinos? Mix of the two?

IW seem very static and I figured some rhinos might be okay with the free extra armour. Plus they're easier to paint.
>>
>>44544464
Nice, so there's at least two of us around here. DESU I'd move it to "acceptable" on >>44543241's list.
>>
>>44545522
Huh, it's changing the non-cursing shortcuts to "desu" too? What?
>>
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>>44542396
>>
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>>44544948
>>44545262
That makes me feel a bit better. It just irritates me that I have all this stuff that I don't want to touch because I'll fuck it up.
>>
>>44545545
>Using shortcuts in an image board

This ain't a chat room.
>>
>>44545433
Kinda contradicted yourself there, but it'sareet. It aligns with my expectations exactly. If it was converted well I'm sure a giant copter would fly (lol) with Thunderbolt rules.
>>
Two BaC boxes with plans of doing Alpha Legion. Should I use my Heavy Bolters to make 2 x 5-man Headhunter squads, or 1 x 5-man Heavy Support Squad with HBs?
>>
>>44545472
I'm not certain quite what you mean by "double-up at I1", but regardless that wasn't my interest. It was how to make Justaerin balanced with regard to their high starting tax, not in general.
>>
>>44545623
Welp, that's life. You gotta break eggs to make an omelette, and if the first few eggs shatter and get shell in the pan then you're like many. Wish I could give you more specific advice, painting ain't my specialty beyond universal colour principles. Luckily there's a guide coming out.
>>
>>44545648
Sorry. Bad habit.
>>
If I want robots in my Alpha Legion army, should I get a Forge Lord or a Praevian, and should I get Thallax or Castellax? I feel like AL somehow getting their hands on giant robots fits their theme.
>>
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>>44542607
Heres a teaser
Angron cost 500
>>
>want to purchase perturabo and a spartan
>mfw It costs half my rent
>>
>>44543080
I'm not sure that a sparten is going to survive a 2500 point army of anti-tank thrown at it on its own
>>
>>44546275
Let me get this straight, when Angron became a DP, a bulky daemonic giant as per the art, he went slighty better in both WS and BS and slower. And that was it.

Seriously, fuck daemonhood.
>>
>>44546391
>Deamonic Flight
>>
>>44546326
any advice?
>>
>>44546470
I was more refering to the fact that he is now a giant and there is no changes to S or T. But yes, that's useful too.
>>
>>44543241

>Fear to Tread
>mediocre

Wut
>>
>>44546520
I hope you're aware those rules are ancient and will be pretty thoroughly invalidated by Forge World's output come the Siege of Terra.
>>
>>44530690
That could probably be fixed with a simple re-position of his right arm, to make it look like he's pulling back to stab forward with his claws.
>>
>>44546813
But why would he be stabbing when he's already shooting him?
>>
>>44543327
>>44543450
>>44543519
>>44544464

Honestly someone should probably make a new one, that picture lacks many books and too many are questionable in placings.
>>
>>44545262
>>44544948

Shit, and here I was getting hyped about White Scars.

What are the easier colours to make look good? What's the easiest legion to paint?
>>
>>44546940

Go for it anon. We believe in you.
>>
>>44544464

You have no taste. That book was appalling. Seriously, using giant building mounted flamethrowers can stop the fucking Life Eater?
>>
How much would you utterly despise someone for using 40k Kastelans in place of 30k Castellaxes?
>>
>>44547250

Unconverted, immensely. They are some of the worst models GW has ever shat out, and them appearing in Cybernetica was the only flaw to that novel.
>>
>>44544289
Is this image from a video? If so where would I find this?

I love the crispness of that white.
>>
>>44547117

Only read like, 6 books.
>>
>>44547301
warhammer tv white power armour advent calendar
>>
>>44546934
Oh I meant as a stand-alone model, when it comes to the diorama you'd have your work cut out for you.

Maybe you could make it look like he's performing a hit-and-run move, but I wouldn't know how to convey that effectively.
>>
>>44547301
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it6sAE-YBDc
Advent Calendar Day 1, by his Majesty, Duncan.
>>
>>44547250
It's Sad Frog vs Derpy Baymax, so pick your poison.
>>
>>44546934

The same reason you would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
>>
>>44547391

Corvus WAS born in the darkness....
>>
>>44547267
>>44547380

Would you recommend the Thallax then? I want to take robots but the temptation to buy half priced Derpy Baymax might be too great...so maybe I should take smaller robots instead.
>>
>>44547561
Personally, I prefer 50's Drive-In Derpy Baymax. But you should pick whatever you prefer.
>>
>>44547611

If you change the head, it can look halfway decent.
>>
>>44546275
Those rules were from 4th edition, where the Daemon special rule granted extra craziness like Eternal Warrior.
>>
Imperial fists 2000pts

>HQ
Praetor 165pts
- paragon blade
- master crafted
- iron halo

Centurion 110pts
-primus medicae
-power weapon
-artificer armor

>Troops
Veteran Tactical squad 285
-+5 marines
-vexilla
-power sword
-2 heavy bolters
-rhino

Veteran Tactical squad 285
-+5 marines
-vexilla
-power sword
-2 heavy bolters
-rhino

>Elites
Templar Brethren 600pts
-+5 marines
-10 combat shields
-LR phobos

Contempor Talon 555pts
1
-2x twin link heavy bolters
2
-twin linked auto-cannon
-dreadnought close combat weapon
2
-twin linked lascannon
-dreadnought close combat weapon

>Heavy Support
Sicaran Battle Tank 175
-ceramite
-heavy bolters

Predator Strike Squadron 260
-Extra Predator
-2x Plasma
-2x armoured cermite

any good, or is it back to the drawing board?
>>
What's the verdict on Red Butchers with Lightning Claws? Thinking of how to build my BaC Terminators for my AL army and I've narrowed it down to: normal boring Terminators, Tyrant Siege Terminators (no fucking idea where I'd find the rockets though), and Red Butchers.
>>
>>44548084
Looks pretty good - I assume with the Contemptors you meant to list 1,2,3?
>>
>>44548084
>Praetor 165pts
He dosent need the master crafting: digi lasers, are the same price and straight better

>-primus medicae
i presume he is going in the TB squad? if so, thats fine, otherwise dont bother buying the HQ version

>Veteran Tactical squad 285
are they snipers? if so, good stuff, otherwise, make them snipers

>-2x twin link heavy bolters
awful, fucking bad as hell. really not worth the huge price tag: go ass cannons or go home (and really they should be on a mortise)

>Sicaran Battle Tank 175
get las cannons, you are better of targeting light tanks/air craft, and you have the contemptor/vets for anti-personnel


pretty good, just needs some tweaks
>>
>>44548185
>What's the verdict on Red Butchers
bad
terrible
awful
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD

really they are crap on toast, in every build. make then into legion terminators
>>
>>44548185
>>44548185

and to follow that up:
you are playing AL: you get the BEST cheap-legion terminators in the game. build them as laemats, or tyrants if you REALLY want to do coild
>>
>>44547061
Black is probably the easiest colour (like I said I am not a painting expert, someone could prove me wrong on that one) for much the same reason that white is so easy, however there are subtleties to black like progressive layers of brown and highlighting. Fortunately there's no less than 3 black-armoured legions, and 3-6 more darkly-armoured groups on top of that. (depends on if you count grey and part-black schemes, IW, SW and SA all can count). Otherwise blue is also a pretty easy colour, quite variable too (all three blue legions I've seen down with colours on the cyan and indigo sides of the spectrum). Greens and Reds are moderately difficult.

Generally the darker the colour, and the more cluttered/murky/grainy the scheme, the easier it is to pull off. Pale colours, yellow, and complex patterns are naturally harder.
>>
>>44547136
Yes, because that's the most retarded thing that's happened in the HH series. Take your opinions, shine them up real nice, and stick them up your arse sideways m8. Deathfire was good for me because A) the Salamanders are getting back story, B) the plot was pretty entertaining C) Vulkan has always been awesome and D) Fuck you.

>>44545522
I eagerly await the last book.
>>
>>44548294
why do you say "tyrants if you really want to do coils?" just curious
>>
>>44547250
I don't utterly despise anyone, but I'd treat it the same as proxying unpainted models or 40K cadians/catachans in an SA list. In some cases it's perfectly fine, if I want a proper game I'll decline. You shouldn't be going out of your way to play games with them.
>>
>>44546520
Well you did say slower
>>44547915
How about we take these rules and stick the primarch rule on there? I mean he is the same price as horus, might as well make him worth it
>>
>>44548334

>A) the Salamanders are getting back story

What backstory? There's no backstory for the Legion there. There was none in Vulkan Lives either. You needed the FW Book to get backstory for the Legion. I'm not sure how much of the deathfire flameanvil drakescale inferno reptile forge stuff is the author's idea on what constitutes varied but thematically relevant symbolism and an interesting, plausible culture, but it's still blindingly repetitive and tells little that FW didn't tell better.

>B) the plot was pretty entertaining

It was a failed rip-off of the Odyssey that was a grand concept but utterly teensy in execution. What was this odyssey? A brief encounter with a curious little fleet of nobodies *inside Macragge space*, one dull jump, an ambush, one serious encounter in the warp, Magnus, Terra and then mostly done. Battle for the Abyss had more ruinous storm in it than this "grand voyage" (three jumps?) through The Ruinstorm.

>C) Vulkan has always been awesome

He had next to nothing to do with the story.

>D) Fuck you

Possibly valid.
>>
>>44548355
Coils of the Hydra Rite of War for the Alpha Legion, which allows them to take a single Legion Specific unit from any other legion as an Elite Choice. There are some restrictions that apply though, but Rewards of the Traitor is pretty nice and emphasises the ALs versatility.
>>
>>44548355
tyrant are both dead 'ard and dear killy. a full squad of 10 outputs 20 kraks, and has split fire.put one with a siege break for tank hunter, and you can kiss your problems good bye . even vs infantry they give out 20 small blasts.

the alternative is the ultramarine version, which is more pricy, but comes with BS5 and a special targeting array which gives some very fun buffs
>>
>>44548355
because you have to be committed to coils if you make your starter set as another legion unit since you can't take them without CotH
>>
>>44548084
Looks good to me. Compact, covers all bases, fun. Commendable as a starter list that's easy to pick up and play and strong enough to compete with more optimal lists, without being OP/autowin.

This anon >>44548252 is right to point out that Master-crafting is a gip when +1 Attack from Digilasers is available for the same cost. Same for his advice on the Vets and Sicaran, and although the HB dread would be okay if you were packed for Elite Slots or wanted a group Drop Pod DS, as it is there's little reason to not replace it for a cheaper, more effective Mortis in its own slot.
>>
>>44548483
eh, with tyrants, you can magnetise the launchers, and use them as legion termies with no worries
>>
First time 30k Player here, making an EC list to fight muh buddies. I know it probably sucks ass so I'd like some help - I was particularly stumped with the last 50 points and tossed in an extra bike and master crafted my Praetor's sword for the lulz. Should I be upgrading my rhinos more instead?

Praetor - 225
-Digital Weapons
-Master Crafted Paragon Blade
-Iron Halo
-Jetbike
(Goes with Jetbike Squad 1)

Champion - 125
-Artificer Armour
-Combat Shield
-Phoenix Spear
(Goes with PBs)

Palatine Blades - 270
-8 Blades, 1 Prefector
-Phoenix Spear for Prefector
-Melta Bombs for Prefector
-Rhino with Dozer

Tactical Squad 1- 250
-9 Tacs, 1 Sarge
-Vexilla
-Phoenix Spear for Sarge
-Melta Bombs for Sarge
-Rhino /w Dozer

Tactical Squad 2- 250
-9 Tacs, 1 Sarge
-Vexilla
-Phoenix Spear for Sarge
-Melta Bombs for Sarge
-Rhino /w Dozer

Jet Bike Squad 1 - 330
-6 Bikers, 1 Sarge
-Phoenix Spear for Sarge
-Melta bombs for Sarge
-2 Volkie Culverins

Jet Bike Squad 2 - 295
-5 Bikers, 1 Sarge
-Phoenix Spear for Sarge
-Melta bombs for Sarge
-2 Volkite Culverins

Land Speeder Squadron - 255
-3 Landspeeders
-3 Graviton Guns
-3 HK Missiles

Excuse me newbness and general scrubbery.
>>
>>44548466
Just to make this clear, only the Sgt has split fire, not the whole unit.
>>
>>44548276
Jesus fucking Christ are all the legion special units shit? Why does forge world mess up the unique legion stuff that's supposed to differentiate them?
>>
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>>44548572
>Iron Havocs
>Tyrant Siege Terminators

Stay salty, pleb legions
>>
>>44548572
Red Butchers are actually pretty good if you use them properly. No idea why >>44548276 says they're bad.
>>
>>44548572
naa, just the world eater ones. most of the LSU are actually farily nice
>>44548558
dosent he grant it to the whole squad by having it?
>>
>>44548439
Not responding to my aggression has ruined all my fun.

Look, maybe it's not necessarily "backstory" as you know it, but it's certainly character and I like the whole mythos behind Vulkan's immortality. It would also be nice to know exactly what the Salamanders (and Vulkan) were doing during the Siege of Terra.

I want to read him actually doing something. Maybe beat up another Primarch who isn't Curze.
>>
>>44548594
Screw yourself pert you retard autist babby
>>
>>44548612

Aren't the imperial fist ones awful too?
>>
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>>44548637
Dorn get off 4chan you have a lego castle to build
>>
>>44548612
Actually looking at the rule, even though the Sgt has Split fire, any ONE model in the unit can choose a separate target.
>>
>>44548667

At least I don't randomly decimate my legion cause I'm a giant man child
>>
>>44548635
>I want to read him actually doing something

He comes back in the Beast Arises series apparently.
>>
>>44548536

Oh, forgot to add, 2000 points.
>>
>>44548691
>Randomly

He did it because they were found lacking.
>>
>>44548572

Only the first four legions (maybe excluding DG). They got better at it.
>>
>>44548691
>>44548698
More like he did it because even Forgeworld write retarded fluff sometimes. We love the ideas of the legions, not necessarily their clumsy execution.
>>
>>44548595
the problem is you are paying a heafty price for a unit that only starts with power axes, and always gets hit on 3's. the extra wound and WS seem nice, but they jsut dont live up to the price tag, doubly so at the 5 member end of the spectrum.

They also cant ever score, whilst normal legion terminators get ob sec. i can see what FW was trying to do, and if they were a tad cheaper, then they MIGHT work. as it stands they are an expensive unit which wont live up to the price.

500 points for a full squad, before any upgrades! thats tyrant terminator region, for 31 power axe attacks!
>>
>>44548664
Phalanx warders are schizo as fuck for normal games but are really cool for ZM were they'll be testing overwatch fire with I5 rather than I4.

Templar bros are nice, nothing too groundbreaking but will probably butcher most mooks they manage to assault.
>>
>>44548664
TB are nice, not fantastic, but fun and fluffy
warder are...so so. not shit, but not great

>>44548668
huh, thats...fucking weird
>>
>>44548776
Yeah, I hardly ever use the split fire rule when it comes to Tyrants. Maybe if I know 18 missiles are over kill and I want to try to golden BB another unit with 2 missiles.
>>
>>44548667
Dorn could've built the imperial palace with 1x1x1 bricks and Perturabo wouldn't have broken it
>>
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>>44528186
Yep, just a rumor. There may not be a book 6 at all. Ever.

>>44527783
I think he looks great painted, much better than in bare resin. The only problem is that his feet make it clear that he's touched ground, so his hair should be starting to come out of free-fall mode.

>>44536625
Alpha Legion question - why is their color scheme so different in the book illustrations vs FW's painted models? It's not just a matter of AL being inconsistent, because FW is consistent in each medium - always a shiny, relatively light turquoise-blue in photos, always a darker shade of metallic blue (with greenish fringes) in their artwork.
>>
>>44548276
I definitely disagree with this. Red Butchers are a limited unit but they are far from bad. Outside of a grant high-accuracy to enemy melee strikes they are very tough for their cost and hit exceptionally hard, with a bonus to charge rolls to boot. Pop a small unit in a Land Raider-like and use them as a distraction payload - it'll rip a chunk out of anything it hits and it'll take a tonne to knock it down.

No unreasonable pricings like actual bad units like Justaerin, combined with a clear role make this unit usable.

>>44548294
I think you were talking about Lerneans a thread or so ago. Lerneans are alright but they're not the be-all you seem to find them. They're stuck with axes and Cataphractii in all circumstances, and their gimmick special gun contrasts totally with their fixed main arm. They don't really have a clear role, which makes up for the discount they recieve on their chargers. They're okay.
>>
>>44548815
Because the blue/green metallic paint scheme doesn't photograph well. I'm sure if you saw the models in person you would be able to recognize the subtle green and blues similar to the 2D color plates.
>>
>>44548726
While it's a stupid thing to do, there's historical precedent among leaders with personalities like Perturabo's. The point is that humanity isn't very different now, or in the future, as it was 2000 years ago.
>>
>>44548466
thanks for the response. Which would you personally choose? I love Ultramarine colors more, but I haven't heard of many people choosing Fulmentarus over Tyrant Siege Terminators.
>>
>>44548811
And even those 1x1x1 bricks could beat Dorn in melee
>>
>>44548572
You're overreacting to a few opinions from one anon. Lurk more and continue to get a feel for the game from the community. Curb yourself.
>>
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>>44548843
That makes sense, but in this model it doesn't look like they tried to match the illustrated scheme at all - mostly in how light the blue is, I don't care so much about how blue vs green it is. I'll post an illustrated Contemptor in a minute.
>>
>>44548691
>>44548698
>>44548726

There's no real difference between Pert decimating his legion, and Dorn forcing his legion into a known trap at the Iron Cage to "prepare them".

The big joke is, and Forge World even mentions this in the Dorn fluff, was that Pert and Dorn were pretty much alike in their rampant autism. The difference is Dorn had help with his autism from the Emperor, which led him to become MOST LOYAL, while Pert was ignored and so couldn't handle getting triggered by everything.

So Dorn vs. Pert arguments are basically fighting for the same thing.
>>
>>44548692
Oh? That's good to know, I'll have to look into that. There's also another Salamander book coming out too in the HH
>>
>>44548776
What's weird about it - a guy with a special scope is using targetting data to coordinate his men's firepower.
>>
>>44548894
Well you're also trying to compare a model in real life and a 2D artists rendition. Of course they're going to look different.
>>
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This looks like dark blue over a metallic base, rather than a medium or light blue.
>>
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>>44548815
Well Alpha Legion officially can vary in colours anywhere within this region here. But in practice Forgeworld's illustrators and painters probably have a pet scheme to which they stick, even if they contrast with each other.
>>
>>44548836
i explain my problem with RB a bit more eloquently here >>44548731. They seem alight on paper, but i find them often out performed by cheaper alternatives

seeing as i was the guy also posting about Lerneans ...

i havent actually talked about them before, glad its not only me that likes them. the reason they are god IMHO, is becuase they are the exact opposite of RBs: relativly cheap, and versitile. whilst i do agree its annoying they are stuck with axes as basic, the upgrade to fist is cheap, and the champion can take a PD for 5 attacks on the charge, and thats all there really is: not super OP, just relativly cheap, and reliable
>>
>>44548894
In this case I think you're being too sensitive. The lighting is (obviously) more realistic in a photograph than a drawing, and the light is catching the metallic midparts and really making them shine out. There are plenty of materials, metals, crystals and so on that change in hue with lighting. Thematically that actually fits the Alphas.
>>
>>44548913
i supposes it makes sense when you put it like that. surly then it should be a property of the scope, not of the USR?
>>
>>44548902
>The difference is

Dorn is an idealist, he has convictions and strives for them where as Pert is a pragmatist who only cares for success and effectiveness. It shows in their legions, where one holds honour and duty as a core part of their identity and the other focuses on perfecting the mathematics of their assaults and win at any cost.

But theyre both the same.
>>
>>44548993
It is. Only the Sgt has the Omni-scope.
>>
>>44548883
:^)
>>
>>44549017
yes, i mean, shouldn't it be that the USR only applies to the models with it (or there whole unit), whilst the omni-scopes allows the bearing to give one member of the squad the rule. that would make more sense. then you would have the sergeant being able to direct his squad, whilst anyone getting splitfire for other sources, can only have it apply to them
>>
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>>44548927
It is indeed the biggest difference. Maybe they found the painted scheme nicer and just kept it, rather than correcting it to what the print art version was.

Also, let's not forget that the AL can technically also be painted in Amaranth (they're even referenced as using an Amaranth Storm Eagle for the attack on the Paramar space station, which is nothing like anything shown in the book. Amaranth is a very red magenta, not even close to actual purple.
Even Amaranth Purple (which exists) is a lot more red than normal purple.
>>
>>44548974
I largely responded to the point you raised there in that post.

>seeing as i was the guy also posting about Lerneans ...
That was obvious and underlighted, yes.

>relativly cheap
Butchers are relatively cheap. You're getting an extra wound, FnP 6+ and Fearless for a 50% cost, and that's before the melee bonuses. Not everything can be the tits like Deathshroud.

>versatile
Jack of all trades, but master of none. Your play style probably suits allrounder units, while Butchers are pretty specialised as a Deathstar/Payload.

>the upgrade to fist is cheap
Fists are also Unwieldy weapons. The issue is that the unit is stuck at I 1.

It's a little unpleasant to read your posts by the way, unlike you're typing on a phone take the time to spell properly.
>>
>>44549065
You seemed to accept the notion of one man with an advanced piece of kit using its readings to assist his fellows here >>44548993. Why would other races and forces be an exception?
>>
>>44549065
I don't understand what you're trying to say, but the Sgt gives the unit Split Fire which means one model from the unit can shoot at a different target. What's weird about that?
>>
>>44549065
Imagine a mortar team. One guy has the rangefinder and is giving coordinates to the guy manning the mortar. I'm sure it can be argued that the Sgt is able to electronically share tactical information with the rest of his unit. Hence, the Sgt with the Omni-Scope grants any one model in his unit Split Fire.
>>
>>44549073
>It's a little unpleasant to read your posts by the way, unlike you're typing on a phone take the time to spell properly.

naa just a spazz, who cant proof read for toffee. I do try though.

>Fists are also Unwieldy weapons. The issue is that the unit is stuck at I 1

This is very true, but it is slightly mitigated by the fact you are in the the second best suite of armour in the game, even getting a 4++ vs at I ap 2.

>Jack of all trades, but master of none. Your play style probably suits allrounder units

what can i say: i play AL. my problem with payloads (and this is admittedly, a hangover from 40k for me) is there vulnerability to things like vindicators, and tar pitting. ID is such a bitch for T4 Multi-wound models.
>>
>>44549189
This is indeed exactly how real-world heavy weapon teams tend to operate. One small officier spots targets and coordinates the unit and information from the rest of the force, one guy loads, aims and fires each weapon and a few other guys carry ammo and use rifles to deter encroaching threats. Such units would benefit from a rule like Split Fire in a game of warhammer in any case, although they wouldn't need wargear for it.
>>
>>44549254
>>44549189
Mmmm, native splitfire for interacted heavy weapons. If only.
>>
>>44549298
*integrated
>>
>>44549223
Slightly mitigated by, but still ultimately limited. At least Butchers can chuck a few Lighting Claws amidst and nail quickers in advance.

It's different strokes for different folks when it comes to playstyle. I wouldn't put a unit down unless it actually had no cost-effective role in any force, with respect of course to alternatives. Not much else does what Red Butchers do as a tanky mass-attack AP2 melee storm, and they shape up pointswise against normal terms in any case, so they get a pass.
>>
>>44549298
Now that would be the dream. But then so would Shred for chainswords, or power lances that weren't overpriced chainaxes, or Salvo 2/3 heavy bolters, or . . .
>>
>>44548691
But you fuck one goat...
>>
>>44548811
Then why didn't he?

Perturabo: 1, Imperial Palace: 0, Dorn: Anal Armageddon, Kharne: 1st Place.
>>
>>44548536
>dedicated melee units in a rhino

Turn 3 charge at best with limited mobility and survivability is not a good idea. Spartans, land raiders, storm eagles, dreadclaws and kharybdis for that.
>>
So if I wanted to buy 500 points of Mechanicum stuff to get started, what would that be?
>>
>>44549670

Thanks for the feedback. How would you recommend rearranging the points to try and accommodate that? Also assume I'm using the RoW here.
>>
>>44549715
An fully kitted Archmagos is 250+ points, so get one of those and then a Castellax some Myrmidons Destructors. Is this for an allied detachment or just random shit?
>>
>>44549789
Mosty random shit. with so many people in my local GW working on Heresy space marine armies, I'm kinda interested in the whole thing, but I prefer the Mechanicum as a theme overall
>>
>>44549849
Well, if you want a playable 500 point list for ZM or something. Get a Magos Dominus, a Castellax and then fill the rest out with Tech-Thralls.
>>
>>44549881
If people don't care what models you use. Get Archmagos Draykavac and magnetize his head. Just count him as a Magos Dominus and when you're ready for bigger games he can be your Archmagos on foot or on an Abeyant.
>>
>>44549789
>>44549881
>>44549923
Thanks for the advice. is the Mechanicum book all I need to play? how similar are the specific rules to 40k?
>>
>>44549720
I'd probably drop one jetbike squad or the land speeders to fit the more expensive transports, or drop one of them to get a FA slot for a dreadclaw and use the spare points on some ranged anti-tank.

You're also probably better off using pride of the legion RoW to get veteran tacticals and you can get melta bombs on all 10, veteran tactics and special weapons for barely any more points. Save maru skara for 2500+ unless you're getting a storm eagle for a guaranteed turn 2 entry.
>>
>>44548815
>book illustrations vs FW's painted models?
They either don't know how to paint indigo or their idea of indigo armour is that piece of shit nuance found in their BaC AL set pics.
>>
>>44550131
The Red book should be all you need to run Mechanicum. I haven't gone through the entire book yet to see if FW forgot to put some special rules in or not. Just go on KAT and grab the photo version first and give it a look over.

I don't know anything about the Adeptus Mechanicus rules in 40k, but I doubt they're very similar.
>>
>>44550131
Mechanicum is the one army where most of the special rules are different from Legiones Astartes. So be prepared during your first few games on having to look up stuff or answer questions from your Marine opponents a lot.
>>
>>44550150

Hmm. Manu Skara with Storm Eagle sounds tempting. I'll consider dropping the second jet bike squad for it.

Or if I'm keeping Manu Skara, would you also recommend swapping the Palatines for those Veterans as an Elite choice? Could vets work better in an outflanking rhino?
>>
>>44550320
Veterans aren't anything amazing as elites, they're just a better choice as troops than tacticals if you want to use rhinos, downside being needing pride of the legion.

It'll probably be more fun to use a legion specific unit too, especially palatine blades since they look rad. You do need a good transport for them though, or jump packs if you want them to be glasscannons.
>>
>>44550407

Yeah, I was considering Jump Packs, but I was worried about the point cost, and about them getting blown away by ranged fire, even with outflanking. I think a Storm Eagle insertion of them might be fun, and the Storm Eagle can then go a be as good as a Jet Bike squad. Any recommendations on running a Storm Eagle? I know my opponents are probably going to bring a lot of ranged infantry and likely dreads with some range too.
>>
>>44550168
>>44550198
good to know. what about the base game itself? are the rules identical to 40k?
>>
>>44550477
Yeah, the core rules are just the 7th ed. 40k Rulebook.
>>
>>44550452
I haven't used it yet but I'd go either TL MM and 4 hellstrike missiles or 2 TL lascannons, with armoured ceramite if you have points to spare.

Tactics are not very complicated. Turn 2 fly in, place yourself close to where you want to assault stuff, shoot all 4 hellstrike and PotMS the MM/vengeance launcher or shoot MM+las and PotMS the vengeance launcher, jink when you're carrying dudes because S9AP2 explosions hurt.
Turn 3, hover 6", drop off palatine blades 6", let them charge thanks to assault vehicle, then keep shooting, jink if anything dangerous shoots you when you're in hover, get back to zooming on T4 and just fly around and be a bitch.
>>
>>44550740

Sounds like fun.

Also, I was mostly using Book 1 with the LA list as well, but I'm noticing some units I didn't see on the first pass. Are the Javelin versions of Land Speeders any good? What book can I find them in? Thanks for all your help, I'll try to slay as many imperfect plebs in the name of the EC as I can in your honour.
>>
>>44550813
Don't use Book 1, it's outdated. In fact, Books 1-3 are outdated. Go on Kickass Torrents and look up "Legiones Astartes" for the two books you need.
>>
>>44551238

Yeah, I got that. But the LA book is just for special units right? I still need the regular generic rules.
>>
>>44551835
There's both Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List (generic stuff) and Legiones Astartes Isstvan Campaign Legions (specific stuff)
>>
>>44551835
The book from the MEGA is mislabeled. You'd realize it as soon as you look at the cover.
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