Gundam Seed

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The ULTIMATE Haro

>>15462349
The series becomes kino if you take the concept of Coordinators to be an in-universe representation of writer's bias.

>>15462349
>That's right Kira! You are the ultimate coordinator.
Were we supposed to take that seriously?

>>15462376
What the fuck is she anyway, a hologram? She appears to have a physical presence though. Man, 00 sidestories are fucked.

>>15462400
From what I understand she was an innovade that existed in data form, but also had a physical body she had to use at one point.
And then she was a haro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNBpUNaCWmw

>>15462435
Honestly he had a point

>>15462441
>Federation instigated the war
>Orb broke treaty and collaborated with them
>We are supposed to root for them over ZAFT
The show was running on a stupid premise from the very beginning. At least Zeon was equally complicit in the OYW, in Fukuda's imitation it's genuinely all the Federation's fault. No one feels any sympathy when they start a war with WMDs and then aren't even competent enough to win.

>>15462459
The Alliance started it, but ZAFT retaliated with way too much force.

>>15462469
>way too much force
When you start with nukes and civilian massacres there's literally no such thing as too much retaliation.

>>15462469
>ZAFT retaliated with way too much force.
What the fuck does that even mean?

>>15462473
>>15462477
>wtf the alliance nuked some of our colonies
>alright let's set up neutron jammers so they can't nuke us again
>let's also pepper the earth with them so there's a global energy crisis and civilians starve to death

>>15462483
That's frankly tame considering the Federation was trying to wipe ZAFT out entirely.

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Canard Pars is way more of a man than that faggot Kira and this is coming from a clone who looks more like a trap.

Why the fuck couldn't we get a mini-series about Canard? He was way more interesting than Ultimate Coordinator plot hax.

>>15462483
They started a genocide because they were jealous

>>15462507
And then ZAFT tried to wipe them out in kind. That's part of one of the prevailing themes in SEED - the cycle of revenge.

>>15462525
>And then ZAFT tried to wipe them out in kind
And there is nothing wrong with that

>>15462523
>>15462483
SEED is the epitome of Jap autism at its finest. I really don't get Orientals and how they view the world and geopolitics.

Having a war started over MUH RACISM is idiocy. Nation-states don't chimp out with nukes just because inner circles are butthurt that they aren't eugenics babies. If Coordinators acted like Magneto from X-Men and openly proclaimed a manifest destiny of overtaking the lowly Naturals, then you might have the justification for Earth being suspicious and even hostile towards ZAFT. But even that's no excuse to ripoff Evangelion's timeline and enact a bloody massacre on Valentine's Day.

>>15462525
What you're describing is the Federation trying to engage in genocide and then getting butthurt when they realized they bit off more than they could chew. ZAFT's response was devastating, to be sure, but how the hell could you call it anything less than appropriate when the Feds' declaration of war came in the form of nuclear weapons? Once a threat declares it intends to destroy you down to the last individual, you wipe it out in turn for your own safety. That's not unfair retaliation, that's wise.

And even then ZAFT had the decency to try and conquer Earth and try to just destroy the military and leadership of the Federation instead of just killing literally everyone from orbit.

>>15462529
Everything is wrong with that. Genocide is wrong, even if you're doing it as revenge for an attempted genocide.

>>15462546
>instead of just killing literally everyone from orbit.
GENESIS?

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>yes i have truly become Mobile Suit Gundam : Seed
wtf

>>15462535
>capeshit reference
stopped reading there

>>15462558

Was there any explanation about what the fuck is seed? It isn't even a racial trait because both pure humans and ubermensch could activate it, and it wasn't even a trait people who live on the edge could activate because fucking Lacus could trigger it from the safety of her chair

>>15462393

In fairness in SEED, the Ultimate Coordinator essentially just meant that his father managed to perfectly create him without any input from the mother's dna, essentially means he was exactly the baby dad wanted.

It was Destiny that meant he was superhuman even among coordinators.

>>15462535
>I really don't get Orientals and how they view the world and geopolitics.
Through an extremely collectivist lens. There are no individuals, just groups that everyone in it represents.

>>15462587
I think it's just a heighened sense of awareness.

>>15462587
It's a representation of being in the zone.

>>15462587
There was a magazine article from way back that described SEED as the extreme limit of the Human Id. Newtype was on the other side of the spectrum as the super-ego.

>>15462621
Exactly my point. Fucking worker ants with no sense of personality.

>>15462349
I honestly don't think Kira qualifies as Jesus anymore. Mwu survives being blown up, Shinn aurvives Kira's nuclear explosion, Athrun and Meyrin survive being stabbed, blown up, and drowned by Shinn, at this point explosions don't do shitto people in the CE.

>>15462631

But Kira's too short to dunk.

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>>15462652
I swear I didn't even know this image existed. I just googled "Kira Yamato basketball" to see if I could find an image to prove you wrong.

>>15462651
> at this point explosions don't do shitto people in the CE
Fukuda's modern works would probably work better if they stopped trying to have plot developments and went full-on Looney Toons, given that.

>>15462667

Is true that Tusk survived exploding because he knows ninjutsu? Because that sounds like a hilarious and much better explanation for survival that never explaining it at all and handwave it as Kira simply surviving just because he can and being found by a spinoff protagonist

>>15462663
You should check out concept images of Wing. They're even more bizarre considering the edgy cast it has.

>>15462667
Remember that interview that had Fukuda admit that he didn't know that Mwu was hit by an anti-fortress cannon? SEED really insulted viewers with how it handwaved how the fuck did Kira and Mwu survive from attacks that should have killed or at least SERIOUSLY injured them.

>>15462613
My fanon is that Kira is the Ultimate Coordinator in the sense of ultimate meaning "last". Ulen finally got his artificial womb project working with him, so the next generation of genetically-altered superhumans isn't going to be held back by the limitations that defined Coordinators and as such is going to be something different.

>>15462674
How the fuck did he not know? Is it not his story? Jesus, what a very very incompetent man.

>>15462694

Technically it's his wife's story, which begs the question of how he didn't know it.

>>15462663
>Athrun: oh god my sides

>>15462535

The war didn't start over MUH RACISM, at least not fully.

The PLANTS were originally RnD centers in space, and the Coordinators moved there to escape attacks from groups like Blue Cosmos (which was originally an environmentalist cause). The colonies were owned by the nations that sponsored their development, who in turn got rich off the high quality goods the Coordinators made. However, the Coordinators were forbidden from growing their own food as a control measure by the sponsor nations.

ZAFT was originally founded to promote three things. 1) The rights to govern themselves, 2) The right to defend themselves from attack and 3) The right to grow their own food. Of course, the sponsor nations refused and even helped Blue Cosmos stage an attack on the PLANTS.

ZAFT said enough, declared themselves independent and brought out their first mobile suits. They turned Junius 7 into a food manufacturing center to supply their people, and offered their high quality goods to nations that would acknowledge them as an independent nation. There was supposed to be a meeting to discuss this with the UN, but the UN got bombed by a group that has never been identified.

The Sponsor nations blamed ZAFT because Papa Clyne survived the attack after his flight was delayed, and quickly assembled into the EA. Afterwards, they declared war and subjugated the nations that did acknowledged ZAFT. Junius 7 was nuked and ZAFT retaliated with the N-Jammers.

Of course, none of this is mentioned in the show. No mention of ZAFT fighting to remain independent or the Earth nations that originally sided with them before being conquered by the EA. Nor does the show bring up the religious opposition to Coordinators, the energy crisis is just glossed over, the S2 Influenze plague that some people say the Coordinators unleashed to avenge the death of George Glenn. None of this whatsoever, just Coordinators were arrogant pricks and the Naturals were jealous.

>>15462694
It's his story, but he and his wife were not the only ones coming up with stuff. There is a whole timeline that is just ignored by the show that adds a lot of depth to the setting ffs. Chances are someone else came up with the technical specs while Fukuda just went "Okay, now have Mu sacrifice himself blocking the shot. It will look so cool."

>>15462652
Fun fact, Kira's height in SEED is about 2 inches taller than Mikazuki.

>>15462587

The official explanation is, let's see if I can remember this correctly, the SEED factor is a element in natural evolution. Some people are born with it, and there is the controversial in-universe theory that those with it will lead mankind to it's next stage of development. When it's activated, those that bear the SEED reach that stage. Anyone can have it, be they Coordinator or Natural. Hell Durandal picked Shinn because he recognized Shinn as a SEED-bearer.

Yeah, it's stupid and completely undermines SEED's messages.

>>15462749
For a show that capitalizes all the letters in it's distinct name, it sure doesn't explain shit about it in the anime.

>>15462674
>>15462694
He also thought that railguns were beams hence spammable and unlimited ammos.

>>15462435
Is he "our guy"?

>>15462715
>Of course, none of this is mentioned in the show.
And this is exactly WHY SEED and its sequel are shit. It gives no sense of history or world-building. Any plausible explanation to why things happened have to be explained in supplementary material.

In the show, it's basically about Azrael and other Blue Cosmos assholes hating on Coordinators. Oh and all that shameless USA/Bush Jr. bashing.

What exactly does he coordinate?

>>15462441
Not just that. He was the only character I've ever seen completely shut down the main character in the final fight with his argument. All Kira responded was "People aren't like that, you're wrong!"

Rau may have been a loony fuck, but you can't blame him for how he regarded Naturals and Coordinators. He's basically like Mewtwo; an unholy abomination created by humanity's hubris and having no place in the world. The world of CE is full of retarded aspergers and it deserved to die in fire.

>>15462810
He cucks people

>>15462816
The manipulative relationship between Kira and Flay was the best part of Seed

>>15462672
Apparently. Not that it's pointed out in the show outside of the episode previews, mind.

>>15462724
He's pretty much a dumb kid in a grown-up body.

>>15462587
At first I thought it was a function of the gundam because of the whole neuro-link part in the acronym. Would make sense on a prototype, something to give naturals more of a fighting chance against coordinators. Unfortunately I overestimated the writing in the show to not make it an asspull deus ex. And then IBO happened

>>15462819
What pisses me off the most is that Kira took away the fiances of 2 of his best friends. What kind of a friend does that? Flay was a manipulative bitch so I cut him some slack here, but he did it again with Lacus.

>>15463050
>but he did it again with Lacus.
He did Athrun a favor by freeing him and taking his place.

>>15463050
Well Athrun banged his sister so I doubt he gives a shit about Lacus anymore.

dat opening tho

>>15463050
Many sites labeled SEED as a romance and after seeing it I was incredibly disappointed. I expected something like Macross except better since so many girls flock to its defense.

>>15463050
And he took Cagalli away from her wedding to Yuna. I mean sure, supposedly he claims he was saving his sister from a forced political marriage. But I think we all know that the real reason is that he loves breaking up engagements.

>>15463050

He is no friend, he is the anal guy, that damned fiend!

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>>15463050
Sad little Natural boy. It's not Kira's fault that women crave BCC.

>>15462535
You watched a cartoon and thought it was an adequate representation of real-world views on politics/war/the world? Are you retarded?

>>15463134
this always makes me kek

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>>15462349

>>15463050
He totally did Athrun a solid there. Kira was the one who ended up in an orphanage full of children after Seed. There is no greater cockblock.

Durandal attacking the place was probably the best thing that could have happened to him.

>>15463209

This is called being a super skilled pilot according to seed

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>>15462819
It really was.

so was his newtype flash just an easter egg or what?

>>15462349
They call his sperm Gundam Seed

>>15463478
He's a newtype and a coordinator. Newtypes exist in CE but most of them died

>>15462715
This all just makes ZAFT look righteous. It isn't like Zeon who were batshit insane and provoked shit. If SEED explained all of this it'd be a much better show.

>>15462694
Are you honestly surprised? This is the same man who totally forgot about the Junius Seven Treaty less than halfway through Destiny's production.

There's an international humanitarian law that isn't side story material, that isn't only mentioned in some video game, that wasn't retconned by a different author later on, and actually gets mentioned in-show to explain why all the starter Gundams in Destiny are running off batteries again. But when Lacus/Cagalli and/or Murrue lets Kira pop-out on the battlefield with his N-Jammer equipped MS, literally no one on either side rightfully rips the fuck into him for it. The Orb characters never act guilty over it, or try throw together some argument about how it's a necessary evil they have to use to keep with larger factions like ZAFT and EA or whatever. They're utterly tone deaf about that whole aspect of their interventions and just act like "Oh, well this major world-building thing doesn't exist whenever we're around."

How can Orb NOT be seen as warmongering the moment a fully restored Freedom Gundam pops up?

>>15463640
My guess is that they claimed that it was just the old Freedom from back before the treaty, and therefore isn't covered by it. Like how arms treaties often just forbid producing certain types of weapons, not possessing any of them that have already been produced. Maybe it's even true, Freedom was pretty beaten up but they might have been able to salvage the reactor and NJC.

>>15463849

>>15463640
By that point, the treaty didn't really matter since EA was using Mirage Colloid, and were working with Orb. Freedom showing up was just the straw that broke the Camels back.

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>>15463069
Kira got to her first anyway

>>15463907
This connection was literally made just because Fukuda is a Star Wars fag. When I first saw this, it seemed like Kira and Cagalli were going to be a thing. Hell, I think that would have been better then Kira ending up with either Flay or Lacus. Some romance.

>>15463529
It would undermine everything Lacus has to say.

> There is no reason for us to fight this war. We must break the cycle of hatred.
> Umm, excuse me Chairman Clyne's daughter. Why do you think we're fighting this war in the first place?
> Revenge?
> We started this in order to have our independence recognized. You want us to go back to being exploited?
> ...
> I mean, they're trying to bring us back under their control here. They're not going to let us peacefully keep governing ourselves. If anything, they'll crack down harder once they take the PLANTS back.
> (teary eyed)
> Not to mention the nations that sided with us and were taken over by the EA. Did you forget about them? Listen honey, why don't you leave the politics to us adults and go back to singing your pretty songs. You can do that, right?

The show has to ignore it's own lore for the sake of it's message.

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You mean ultimate newtype

>>15463969
>I think that would have been better then Kira ending up with either Flay or Lacus.
They had a lot better a connection than with Kira and Fllay (a manipulative romance built on teenage hormones and broken hearts) or Lacus (essentially out of nowhere with vague "we both like peace a lot so let's fight physically for it").

>>15463977
Fukuda is a retard who admits he only cares about characters doing cool stuff. He doesn't give a fuck about story and I doubt he even came up with most of that stuff.

>>15464187
>He doesn't give a fuck about story and I doubt he even came up with most of that stuff.
That's because his wife wrote it.

>>15464191
More like other staff members, like producers. He even admitted in one English language interview he used the theme of genetic modification because a producer requested it. Fact is, Morosawa and Fukuda did not create the Cosmic Era by themselves and the setting we got was one approved by the boys upstairs beforehand.

>>15462349
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjfbUfcJUM

>>15464213
Gundam SEED is basically a design-by-committee version of Gundam to appease suits and investors. It's what we'd have gotten if Tomino wasn't a huge pain in the ass about creative control.

>>15463640
One issue with Gundam SEED Destiny is that it tries to close Pandora's Box but shows that both sides, ESPECIALLY the Earth Alliance are more than willing to commit war crimes.

Why don't they have NJC mobile suits?

>>15464577
They do in the sidestories

can't have more machines onscreen to rival the important of the MC's crew, you know

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>>15462349
Why be a Ultimate coordinator when you can be the Ultimate Innovade

>>15462819
I agree. In fact, I really wish that it was the central focus as it was where Kira got his most human moments when he was with Flay. Whenever they were on the screen together, the quality went up significantly.

Although it seemed Kira was the innocent party, I liked the idea that the two of them were both using each other. Kira was using Flay to validate himself and his actions out on the battlefield while she used him to avenge herself on ZAFT.

After all, they were people who brought out the worst and best in each other. Flay made Kira question himself, his ideals and his very nature. However, she also strengthened his resolve to defend the Archangel and her. Likewise, Kira brought out the manipulative bitch of Flay and helped to develop it to its maximum potential. However, slowly due to her relationship with Kira she questioned her views of the world and changed the way she thought of things.

In fact, I honestly wished that they split the role of protagonist between the two of them, as the whole romance with them would have fit the theme of 'Understanding' that SEED had a lot better than Lacus and Kira's relationship. Also, Flay piloting the Rogue would have been great if she was around for the final battle and her development could really shine through.

>>15465083
See >>15457125

miriallia a best

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>>15465167

>>15462459
>Orb broke treaty and collaborated with them
Part of Orb broke the treaty and pulled that shit, and Uzumi was left holding the bag for it.

Although to be fair he went and blew himself and his government up, so while there were parts of Orb that weren't corrupt or at least greedy as fuck, they were suicidally retarded instead.

>>15462694
Tomino forgot the G-Arcane could transform, so it's not like 'forgetting what the gunpla bait's gimmicks are' is exclusive to Fukuda.

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>>15462674
ULTIMATE Coordinator = fast healing and regeneration's

>"Ultimate" coordinator
>Exists because parents were sick of their baby have the slightly wrong shade of eye color, hair color, etc.

You're a glorified build-a-bear Kira.

>>15463977
Except that Lacus didn't get actively preachy until Patrick and the other inmates started running the asylum in the PLANTs and began escalating things further, well past the point 'MUH FREEDOMS' can defend it.

Like those guys in Panama; you could really tell how passionate they were about independence from the way they murdered surrendering troops, mirite?

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>>15462715
>N-Jammers
Problem with that it cause food & energy problem to many nation that didn't attack ZAFT.

Most EA nation join after that attack.

>>15465124
I know it sucks so much, SEED could have been a fucking masterpiece, hell so could have Destiny. They just needed a better director who was influenced by his personal relationships so much.

And yet Destiny was still better than Iron Blooded Ovaries despite all the misgivings, go figure.

>>15465175

But to be fair, Tomino is an old man and I think it is a lot easier to forget something can transform than forgetting a fucking hugeass energy blast annihilated one of the main characters.

>>15465235
The fake gundam fans drank too much MAHQ and ANN kool aid

>>15465169
Lewd.

>>15464223
https://youtu.be/qo5075Ok-Tw

>>15465217
What was the guy's beef with Cagalli's VA? Did he seriously change a lot just because he didn't like her?

>>15468294
Why did he cry again?

>>15468695
Didn't have a Gundam stronk enough to impose his poorly thought out ethics on the world around him

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what was Natarle thinking about?

>>15468814
Being dead.

>>15468817
does she hate children that much?

>>15468476
There's a lot of rumors and hearsay floating around, but apparently, Fukada's wife, Morosawa, (who was also the scriptwriter) had some sort of beef with her.

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What was the point of wasting them away?

>No more Toon Link piloting grunt MS again

>>15468809
Kira didn't even think of stopping the war at that point, at that point he just wanted to be able to protect his friends.

>>15462651
There was no nuclear explosion.

>>15465187
You're dealing with people looking to justify their dislike more than anything else. Don't bother.

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>>15471438

Every time i see a thread about SEED i consider watching it but the discussion always convinces me not to

Maybe i missed something but i never understood why he was the only one able to fix the Astray's OS while there is plenty of coordinators in Orb.

>>15471498

Because he's the messiah, jesus incarnate, the ultimate coordinator. Filthy humans couldn't do shit, and normal coordies were like babies compared with the power of the one true lord

>>15471458
I mean, any retard who know that if they've ever seen the final still shot showing the Freedom's remains in the water, the Impulse hovering above the water a little bit behind and the source of the explosion and the giant cloud of ash it produced way off in the horizon.

>>15471517

I haven't seen that clip in ages, but wasn't the impulse heavily damaged, as if something exploded right in front of it?

>>15462677

I had the same idea on what the Ultimate Coordinator was supposed to do.

>>15462349
Praise the almighty Jesus Yamato!

>>15471498
Maybe those ORB coordinators lacked combat experience, and that experience was needed to tweak the Astray and the rest of the EA suits' OS

Is it possible that Rau or Azarael were behind the terrorist attack that was blamed for starting the first war?

>>15468843

She hates Kuzzy. And honestly who doesn't.

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Is it me or does it seem like they were on to something with this idea?

Also, what is this "Spatial Awareness" they speak of from time to time? All I know is that Al Da Flaga, Mu, Rau, Morgan and possibly Rey all have it, and that it's necessary to get the most use out of wire weapons.

>>15471498
This is actually mentioned in novels or one of the mangas. Can't remember which. It needed the Strike's combat data to finish building the Natural OS, nothing more. Kira just helped out because he's more of a programmer.

>>15471556

Aside from the damage he took from fighting Freedom, the shockwave from the Tanhausser when it hit the water body probably didn't help either remember both Impulse stabbing Freedom and Minerva "sinking" the Archangel occured close the same time frame

>>15472940
>Also, what is this "Spatial Awareness" they speak of from time to time? All I know is that Al Da Flaga, Mu, Rau, Morgan and possibly Rey all have it, and that it's necessary to get the most use out of wire weapons.

http://occupationaltherapyforchildren.over-blog.com/article-spatial-awareness-108726104.html

> Spatial awareness is the ability to be aware of oneself in space. It is an organised knowledge of objects in relation to oneself in that given space. Spatial awareness also involves understanding the relationship of these objects when there is a change of position. It can therefore be said that the awareness of spatial relationships is the ability to see and understand two or more objects in relation to each other and to oneself. This is a complex cognitive skill that children need to develop at an early age. Spatial awareness does come naturally to most children but some children have difficulties with this skill and there are things that can be done to help improve spatial awareness.

>>15472940
>Also, what is this "Spatial Awareness" they speak of from time to time?
Newtypes

>>15468814
Thingken about cucking Murrue and having Mu all to herself

>>15472940
I think all the CE "newtypes" died during the battle of Endymion crater, with the exception of Al Da Flaga's descendants ( Mu, Rau, Rey, and possibly Prayer), Morgan, and Kira.

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>>15464979
Why be the Ultimate Innovade when you can be the First and Ultimate Innovator.

>>15473101

>battle of Endymion crater

Is that ever shown on screen?

>>15473101
Oh I forgot Courtney had "high spatial awareness" too.
>>15474820
It's just a typical space battle on the moon but was cut short by the cyclops being activated killing everyone except Mu.

>>15474950

I have to wonder if the Alliance ever quit using the cyclopes or if it was ever banned at the treaty.

>>15472954
Make sense, thanks for the answer

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Are there any sympathetic Earth Alliance characters aside from Morgan Chevalier who stick with the Alliance?

>>15476935
Not counting the ones who defected, probably just the ones who got killed in action like Natarle.

>>15476935

There's the famous Edward Harrelson, and also the Deep Forbidden and Buster Dagger pilots, Jane Houston and Reina Imelia.

Yep. 4 of those type of characters across two series. Ed and later Jane split from the EA during the South American war, so two left at the end of the series, assuming they survive.

>>15476974
>>15477013

So Morgan is the only one still alive by the end of SEED Destiny?

Is there anyone involved with the "Ultimate Coordinator Project" who is still alive aside from Kira?

>>15478928
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Canard_Pars

>>15473101
There are newtypes in the CE. What the shit, the show never mentions this.

>>15479980
The show never mentions Newtypes, but you just know they are there what with the newtype flashes and all.

>>15462535
>Having a war started over MUH RACISM is idiocy.
Is this a joke? Do you have any idea of how many wars start precisely for that reason?

>>15476935
Sven

>>15479980
Individuals with "high spatial awareness" that can operate "gunbarrels" and/or the DRAGOON system = newtype

>>15463907
>>15463969

This was so, so weird.

Did Kira's mother never tell him he had a sister? Or that his sister JUST HAPPENED to be the Princess of Orb? Like, what a strange, bizarre thing to fucking happen.

Kira sums up everything that's wrong with how Japanese think and operate. I love how Orb is meant to be an analogy to Japan and all about MUH UNDERSTANDING in the end of SEED/Destiny.

Even their thinly-veiled criticism on post-9/11 US foreign policy reeks of Japanese circle-jerking of their retarded autism.

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>>15462349
LACUS

>>15480580
Pure Maiden Meer is in shock from Lacus' utter sluttiness.

All is as it should be.

>>15480580
>>15480602
Lacus the Ultimate slut Coordinator

>>15480418
>Did Kira's mother never tell him he had a sister?

Pretty sure she went crazy and killed herself shortly after they were born. Kira's dad raised him, Cagalli was passed off to Orb's leader.

>>15480360

>that can operate "gunbarrels"

Does ZAFT not like that technology or something?

>>15480742
It was a worse weapon system than mobile suits. I think Mwu was the only guy out of an entire squadron of gunbarrel spacejets to make it out of some big battle life. ZAFT is fine with funnels since they don't need wires and at the end of the day you still have a giant robot.

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>>15480742
>Does ZAFT not like that technology or something?
DRAGOONs already do the same thing and more, while being wireless.

>>15480772
That doesn't make any sense, why would gunbarrels be mutually exclusive with mobile suits? Just mount gunbarrels on the mobile suit. EA has the Gunbarrel Striker pack and ZAFT's Chaos Gundam has weapon pods that are basically wireless gunbarrels in everything but name.

>>15480793
You can do it, ZAFT just didn't see a reason to. They didn't have a problem putting actual funnels on things.

>>15463659

It had to have been. It was a near ruined hulk at the end of seed, but its entire torso was intact and they fixed it.

Yet after Shinn skewers the reactior and all they get back is the upper torso they declare it destroyed forever and can't salvage it.

That's besides the fact that they never restore the Justice, Strike or anything else that's completely blown up at the end of Seed. All they've got is Freedom and Strike Rouge at first.

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>>15480793

So, the Proto Chaos here is what lead to the development of Chaos Gundam?

Also, does ZAFT not like Mobile Armors? From what the Proto Chaos's lore said, they considered the era of the things bygone (I bet they were in for a rude awakening when they fought the Alliance the second go around).

It's like they somehow didn't expect the Alliance to improve on them or something.

>>15481048
Mobile armors are an EA invention so ZAFT doesn't use a lot of those. Vice versa for EA and MS, except the EA was forced to adopt MS as a necessary sin to compete with ZAFT. When they have the ability, the EA starts producing newer superior MA and doesn't bother with high end MS in Destiny. All of the Gundams that the EA have in Destiny are either upgrades of their previous generation of Gundams, or stolen from ZAFT.

Anyhoo, the way I see it, declaring MA to be a thing of the past is sort of like declaring the EA to be finished.

>>15481075
>doesn't bother with high end MS in Destiny
Left off a word, I meant "doesn't bother with building high end MS". Obviously they'll put enemy MS to work for themselves if they capture them.

>>15473101
It is stated the Mu La Flag was part of a special unit of the EA Navy that had people with high levels of spatial awareness (newtypes) and they operated the mobious zero MA. They got deployed to the moon and faced the ZAFT forces and even held them off until the EA activated a Cyclops system and killed everyone but Mu survived

so there are literally only a handful of Natural Newtypes left in the CE universe (from what is written there are no natural coordinator newtypes and it only happens to naturals()

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>>15481440
this is from the game gundam seed never ending tomorrow which is sort of like gundam encounter in space

it has a ton of side stories from the gundam seed universe and it shows Mu when the war started before he met kira

>>15481440
Kira is a newtype

>>15462435
>>15462441
I wish he won

>>15481450
Why does Moo's helmet have only a small visor? Other pilots have full faced ones.

>>15481751
It's quite literally just to show that he's different. He's an ace of the Moebius Zero corps that got wiped out earlier in the war. Maybe it's just an older style of helmet.

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>>15481462

>>15480793
The Chaos was the best stolen gundam in destiny. Shame Sting jobbed to some orb murasame grunts near the end.

>>15481839
Yeah, and afterward he got upgraded to a Destroy Gundam and then lost even more quickly.

Rau didn't wear a flight suit until he got the Providence right?q

>>15462349

Man, I remember the compilation movie, when they just start randomly playing "Zips" at the worst possible time.

It's a shame, because I actually like that song.

In hindsight, this show really had a lot of problems, didn't it? I found myself rooting for the Earth Alliance, because they seemed to be constantly the underdog. NOTHING went right for them, because their enemies were supermen.

Also, I still don't understand why Fllay thought Rau sounded like her dad. I'm really glad she died, and I bet Kira's secretly glad she died too. Talk about tying up all the loose ends of the plot in one neat package. Rau really did you a solid there, Kira, you owe him twenty dollars.

>>15483692

The dumbest part is that they never gave Rau a Gundam before that. No, wait, actually we need to explore that.

Rau is a clone of a Natural, isn't he? How the hell did he end up leading a group of Coordinators, and assimilating seamlessly into their society? Wouldn't it be obvious that he wasn't an ubermensch? While we're at it, why didn't they give him one of the Gundams earlier?

Like, his Suit was basically useless. You'd think that he would make a better pilot than any one member of the gay boyband he was riding shotgun with.

>>15483894
Al Da Flaga was better than coordinators so his clones are the same.

>>15483906

Damn, he must've had the best genes (and them be 100% dominant) ever if he naturally was THE superhuman and those traits could be passed down to his clones and his legit children.

Fuck coordinators, they should've instead researched into making his superior traits be passed down to people with 100% success rate

>>15481852

>Destroy Gundam

I will never understand why they wasted those like they did.

For such a fearsome weapon, you'd think they'd surround it with Daggers or Windams to make sure no sneaky git tried to get in melee range in the first place.

Plus, what did ZAFT likely do with the wrecks of those, and is it likely that the Earth Alliance is still making them?

Since it doesn't say Phanton Pain was utterly destroyed, I've been assuming there are still some members running amok out there with whatever Destroy units they had on hand.

>>15483894
Coordinators aren't necessarily such a far step above naturals that a natural could never compete with them. I'm sure that coordinators, with their genetic manipulation, are just meant to be near the peak of what the human body can do. Sure, the average coordinator probably has better innate potential and has better reflexes and hand-eye coordination compared to the average natural, but if a natural could get lucky in the genetic lottery and train himself, he'd be more or less on par or maybe better than average coordinators.

>>15484383
>Fuck coordinators, they should've instead researched into making his superior traits be passed down to people with 100% success rate
Actually, that was the point of the ultimate coordinator project and the sideproject of cloning Al Da Flaga. Research into using artificial wombs to create the perfect offspring.

https://youtu.be/Yk8ND2nolmk?t=182

Rau explains his and Kira's origins in this episode. Basically, coordinator children have their genes manipulated at the embryonic stage but it's possible for things to go wrong during development in the mother's womb. The process isn't flawless. People got to customize their kid before pregnancy like an RPG character creator, but they were pissed when things didn't turn out right since it cost a lot of money and/or the kid had defects. Kira's biological father was a scientist who was the brains of the ultimate coordinator project, meant to solve those problems once and for all. Al Da Flaga approached him and offered to fund the project if he could also create a perfect clone child of Al, which sorta aligns with the ultimate coordinator project's goals.

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>>15484588

>Basically, coordinator children have their genes manipulated at the embryonic stage but it's possible for things to go wrong during development in the mother's womb. The process isn't flawless. People got to customize their kid before pregnancy like an RPG character creator, but they were pissed when things didn't turn out right since it cost a lot of money and/or the kid had defects

So that explains this Girl, who was a Coordinator, yet one that needed glasses?

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>>15484605
Yeah. Here's an actual screencap from that episode. I can just imagine it now:

>you dumbshit doctors I paid a fortune for the perfect aryan child and you give me this little shit

>>15484639

Did they forget the process of creating Coordinators wasn't a perfected science?

>>15484639
>>15484690

and the biggest fuck you of all was the pregnacy stats going down faster then seed destiny's view ratings.

Plant&ZAFT&coordinators where fucked in the end even if they conquered earth.
And as far as we now only space jesus kira was the only one to be born from a artifical womb.

>>15484763

Doesn't that mean Durandel's so called "Destiny Plan" would have a short life span even if it were implemented?

>>15484789
In seed its mentioned that messing with the DNA is creating some kind of infertility among coordinators.

But in seed destiny somehow this isnt a problem anymore.
Probably because seed destiny is shit.

>>15484763
>And as far as we now only space jesus kira was the only one to be born from a artifical womb.
I'm pretty sure Canard Pars, Prayer Reverie, Rau, Rey, and whoever the fuck else they may invent also came from artificial wombs.

>>15484763
>>15484789
Only if they exterminate all of the naturals. Supposedly, mating coordinators with naturals will solve the infertility crisis or some shit, I don't remember.

>>15484639
Did they ever focus on the "it costs a lot" factor on being a coordinator? Because aside from "moral" issues, naturals can cite being a coordinator is a "social class" thing, the rich being able to afford the most designer of designer babies that have a leg up on the competition.

though how much does it really cost when you can have space colonies full of them.

>>15484810
When you live in plant, designer babies are probably covered under the health care.
Probably...

>>15484802

>Supposedly, mating coordinators with naturals will solve the infertility crisis or some shit, I don't remember.

But wouldn't the issue of spite between Coordinators and Naturals prevent that even in the case of the Destiny plan?

I'm not sure the plan even covers that and I'm not sure even the threat of Requiem could make it happen if both sides are unwilling.

Plus, I think Naturals are a minority or non-existant in the PLANTS, with Rau being the only possible exception.

>>15484810
>>15484819

It costs in other ways doesn't it?

I remember the PLANTS having some wonky procedure for having children that the Minerva's captain hinted to when she said she wanted to have a child.

>>15484829
Since coordinators are having issues with conception, the implication was that Talia and Durandal were a couple but split up after genetic testing revealed that they wouldn't be able to have a child together.

>>15484825
>But wouldn't the issue of spite between Coordinators and Naturals prevent that even in the case of the Destiny plan?
Fuck if I know, probably yes. This is the universe where both the end of Seed and Destiny required the intervention of a third party to cram peace down each others' throats, after all.

>Plus, I think Naturals are a minority or non-existant in the PLANTS, with Rau being the only possible exception.
I'm pretty sure naturals aren't allowed to live in the PLANTs. Rau somehow hid this when he joined them. In any case, since he can operate a coordinator mobile suit just fine, he probably didn't arouse any suspicions when he enlisted in ZAFT.

>>15484844
>Rau somehow hid this when he joined them.

Rau was an identical clone of Al Da Flaga, who had Coordinator-tier genes even though he was a Natural. Both Rau and Rey were thus Naturals with the performance of Coordinators.

>>15484852
>Al Da Flaga, who had Coordinator-tier genes even though he was a Natural

AL and his natural born son MU where naturals.

Rau and Rey where clones but improved in every way, making them coordinators.
They where made by the same guy who made kira so you could even argue that they where closer to Jesus kira then to your average coordinator

The only thing they fucked up with Rau en Rey is that they fast aging proces was broken.

The mental problems are a different story

>>15484825
even if they could live in the PLANTS, what possible jobs could they get outside of really menial labor when pretty much everyone else is better than you from birth?

a natural and a coordinator applying for the lowest yet only available job in space mcdonalds and they will most likely pick the coordinator.

>>15484868
Space mcdonalds would probably be run by robots.
More likely that you would live of some kind of welfare for being mentally challenged as a natural in a coordinator society.

>>15484868

That is a good point.

Also, what about mining? Or is that mostly automated too?

>>15484882
someone has to maintain said robots though.

then some genius probably programmed the bots to be snarky when in the presence of the maintenance guy.

Orb was the place where coordies and humans lived together, right? I can't help but wonder how they managed to distribute jobs there. I mean, as you guys said, anything a human can do, a coordie can do it twice or thrice times better.

How did normal humans managed to remain happy there among groups of ubermensch?

>>15484915
In reality they probably would not be happy.
You would have to force diversity standards down people's throats.
And a shitload of censoring and cracking down hard on any kind of racism.
And when you get to that point everybody's life gets equaly shitty.
Like in real life.

>>15484915

Probably orb forced all forms of business to fill a natural quota, limiting the number of coordinators they have and that they simply must have an amount of naturals working for them.

But then that would cause disatisfaction in the coordinator masses because they were more qualified but work regulations dictated they already filled their max amount of coordinator worked, so they would end up working on jobs reserved for unqualified staff such as working in mcdonalds or being freelancer.

Honestly, I would have to check the orb related episodes again to see if they touched at all the issue of naturals and coordinators living together. But if they didn't, well, that's seed for you

>>15484915

>Orb was the place where coordies and humans lived together, right?

Orb and Mars, but I heard they have some weird arrangement on Mars concerning that.

Durandal was right.

>>15484947
>Mars

is that a manga only thing? i dont remember anything about it in the anime.

>>15484952

It is.

>>15484894
definitely automated (more profit).

unless they do that thing in IBO about females doing more hazardous space jobs for less pay compared to guys just to make a living. Naturals could do more hazardous work for less pay just to make a living in space.

how much of Junk Guild is naturals? would they be called space garbage men by their coordinator workmates?

>>15484952
>>15484959
Going off the Mars Astray thing, I believe Durandal's Destiny plan is supposed to be at least somewhat based on the society that Mars has. Not sure how, though.

>>15484959
are the manga's any good?

>>15484968
They're written by someone named Tomohiro Chiba, if you know what that means. Expect some uniqueness compared to whatever the source universe is and some wacky and serious situations from time to time.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=20349

I guess the most hate people have for him comes from a character he wrote for the 00 manga sidestories who amounts to a smartass can't-be-wrong edgy asshole.

>>15484988
just another load to put in my backlog.
Probably will never get to it anyway, but thanks.

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>>15484968

They are interesting to me.

My favorite would probably be Delta Astray.

Has a few familiar faces in it.

My only real grip seems to be, as it always is with SEED, Earth Alliance-Phantom Pain incompetence.

>>15485014
is there a government group in the whole of gundam worse than the EA?

most of the time instead of being an actual opponent/threat, they feel more of a nuisance to ZAFT IMO.

>>15485044
give them some slack. They've always been led by an incompetent idiot.

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>>15485093
Make me wonder if he would've made things better or worse for the EA.

>>15485014
>Earth Alliance-Phantom Pain incompetence

That's an understatement. There are throwaway 80's toku villians who are more capable than them.

>>15485044

I'm kind of wondering how they're prosecuting the war the second time around.

With all the advances they've made, I find it hard to believe they lost the ground they did.

But then again, I believe in all of their encounters with the Minerva, ZAFT simply got lucky. Same with the uprising in Eurasia.

Plus, they did almost kill Shinn so.

>>15484538
>For such a fearsome weapon, you'd think they'd surround it with Daggers or Windams to make sure no sneaky git tried to get in melee range in the first place.

The pilots are fucking crazy. Stationing meatshields to protect them is flushing money down the toilet. The Destroys needed pilots as stable as Sven and co.

>>15485122
Halburton was supposed to be that guy. Problem was that he was made into a sacrificial lamb by the AF.

If only SEED went into the intricacies of the EA.

>>15480602
>Pure Maiden Meer
>Pure
>Maiden
She dress like a stripper

>>15485255
Why wasn't Sven given a Destroy again?

>try to watch seed
>stock footage in the first episode
dropped

>>15484538
I guess they weren't expecting a pilot to be good enough to get into close range to attack them.

I recall a few BeCUEs trying to attack in close range, but she pretty much swats them away.

On that note, when Stella, Neo and Sting reach Berlin, where the fuck did all of the Windams go?

>>15480793

Man, early digital inking looked so fucking ugly. It's why it's hard for me to watch s1 of Fafner

>>15486994
Who needs Windams when you have a Destroy?

>>15484763

The thing is, the babies problem is only an issue if coordinators are only having babies with other coordinators. If they fuck naturals, the pregnancy rate is normal.

would pro-sports and the olympics have to be segregated to accomodate naturals and coordinators?

kinda like how g gundam had an earth and colony champion of boxing.

>>15486967
The Strike Noir was sexier.

>>15486994

>where the fuck did all of the Windams go?

I assumed those were assets on loan to Phantom Pain and they were detached from Phantom Pain when they were ordered to go elsewhere.

So a few questions.
One, why the fuck did they mess up this universe when it actually had some potential for flawless Jesus Yamato and his flawless Victory buddies?

Two, the alien giant flying whale why wasn't it fleshed out.

Three, why did the Astra girls have to die at the end?

Four, why did the world building get ignored?

Five, Why the hell is stargazer so good?

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>>15485293
>he doesn't know the rules

>>15489432

Budget constraints?

>>15489432
Space whales were never meant to be expanded upon. Pretty sure Fukada said that much in an interview. He just wanted to show there was more out there.

Considering how 00 went to handle aliens, I'd say not expanding on the whales was the right call.

>>15491387
The not innocent looking girl looks plenty of innocent, just a bit unkempt. Looks more innocent if anything.

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>>15487013

I wonder if the artificial womb might have actually accelerated the issue, by giving Coordinators a template to fit into and furthermore removing any possibility of variance.

All things considered, they got off pretty lightly with just sterility.

>>15477709
All 4 were last seen alive. However, Edward and Jane have renounced their EA obligations, leaving the comatose Reina and Morgan as the only named EA characters.

There's a Socius clone in SEED Frame Astrays and some dickbags along with Sven and friends from Stargazer in Delta who are also EA people, but Socius clones are not exactly known for their free-thinking abilities and the dickbags are just varying levels of one-track-mind elevated fodder with the exception of Sven and his group.

>>15480663
Kira had a foster family in Orb, they just weren't royalty. I remembered someone or something mentioned that Ulen and Via were attacked and executed by Blue Cosmos some time after the twins were born. In any case, none of the twins were aware of their biological parents until after the Orb battle in SEED.