Is thunderbolt really an AU?

>>15052657
Yes, it is.

For one thing the kits for it aren't actually in the universal century line.

Read the manage, there's a clear deviation from the original timeline. There's an interview where the author said Bandai didn't care if he followed the established canon (Movies are the definitive one) timeline. Furthermore look at the unit you posted.

It's considered a base model Zaku II in the Thunderbolt timeline. Unlike the Zakus in War of the Pocket where it was retconned to be a separate unit with its own designation of FZ.

>>15052660
Also didn't the author say he just wanted to do what he thought was cool and he wasn't sticking to canon?

>>15052657
Author interview:

http://otakumode.com/news/52fc76ef80cd488c6b00068f/Interview-with-Mobile-Suit-Gundam-Thunderbolt-Author-Yasuo-Ohtagaki-3-3

>YO: I think in that sense Thunderbolt started off in a very fortunate position. Just as the lack of attention given the first Gundam TV series allowed it some freedom, my Gundam series is on a unique platform with Shogakukan’s Superior, so it’s not as tied down. In the beginning, I told them that I wanted to be able to work freely, even if that meant it wasn’t part of the Gundam canon, and they told me I could do what I want. However, that makes it difficult to adapt into anime and Gundam models... I suppose [laugh].

>CS: So it wasn’t that they approached you and said, “Do it at this point in the Universal Century calendar.”

>YO: It’s a bit off from the so-called “correct history,” but I did that on purpose [laugh]. I started off on the sidelines without much attention, which actually allowed some freedom as I wrote and I didn’t have to defend myself, so I decided to change what I wanted, and I think it was good that I could start that way. Being in that position is similar to how it was for the first Gundam, so I’ve been happy with it.


There is also stuff like the designs are meant to be literal replacements for the original designs and not just variants (They have the same model numbers as the originals and there is a page showing thunderbolt zaku IIs during operation british in place of regular zaku II). And then there is also an assembly line preparing to mass produce the Zeong at A Baoa Qu.

The rest of the interview is a pretty interesting read as well.

>>15052657
>Is thunderbolt really an AU?

>>15049119
>Is Unicorn Canon?

Their lack of creativity is really scary.

But let's take a wild guess here: Your next shit thread will be ''Is ZZ Canon?'' or ''Is ZZ really an AU?'' and you will use a image of a mech.

>>15052657
The mg kits are shoehorned to fit. . Katoki did some redesigns for OVA that you can see in the MG Ver Ka kits.

>>15052688
This interview and its answers refers to the manga, not the Sunrise anime adaptation. As far as sunrise and bandai are concerned if they animate,it happened regardless of whether or not anything is contradicted.

>>15052726
Film is the term you're looking for, which doesn't mean everything animated. Furthermore, if everything is canon, then it would create conflict over what takes priority as the true timeline. The fact that this was addressed in saying the movie version are the canon version solved this issue. It doesn't mean other versions no longer exist. Just they are a different timeline.

>But ZZ and Unicorn!
Relegated to the TV timeline. You'll appreciate the irony that Bandai turned Unicorn into a TV series.

>>15052726
>As far as sunrise and bandai are concerned if they animate,it happened regardless of whether or not anything is contradicted

If you are reffering to that infamous "If it's animated, its official" line, that was specifically in relation to ms designs, not series or settings. Neither bandai nor sunrise has addressed anything about the animated series being official or canon to the established UC timeline, only the author has addressed that the manga is not.

>>15052657

It's not an AU, it's just a side-story. Remember, there's absolutely nothing in the timeline that makes Zeta impossible and Amuro Ray is sitting it out anyway.

Like, what's the stuff that makes Thunderbolt non-canon?

>>15052808
Radically different ms redesigns, more advanced technology like e-packs appearing earlier than they should, a Zeong production line, no big explosions at A baoa qu, every faction shitting themselves over the reuse p system and trying to get their hands on it because it will revolutionize ms control, Atlas Gundams everything, EF had a newtype development project before the war even started.

Just to name some.

>>15052657
>People are always saying thunderbolt is an AU, but that doesn't seem right.
>Sources?


I consider it Alternate UC , just like The Origin or the novels

>>15052666
Yeah Satan, he did say something like that.

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>>15052657
It's an AU in the sense that Sunrise separates it JUST enough that they have the creative freedom to do whatever they want, but market it as a crucial entry to the UC timeline and will give no public answer to that question beyond that.

So honestly, it's more of an actual AU than Origin OVA is (which is more minor alt-take on early UC where 95% of everything is the same anyway/retconned,) but if this bothers you to the point where it's inadmissable as a worthy part of the Gundam mythos, you seriously need to kill yourself.

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>>15052834
>Radically different ms redesigns, more advanced technology like e-packs appearing earlier than they should

Those are called design liberties, they don't actually directly interfere with 0079, Zeta, or any of the OVAs in between

Your other points are somewhat valid, butI want this shitty fucking "different MS look = different timeline" argument wiped from gundam threads

>>15052866
This is honestly the most valid answer. Sunrise will never make a statement on it one way or the other.

>>15052869

See >>15052688
>>15052664

The author intentionally changed the look of a mecha that should have stayed the same between 0079 and Thunderbolt, because Thunderbolt is an 'alternate history' sort of thing. Sure, it could have been a design liberty. But in this case, it explicitly wasn't. It was a redesign, just as thunderbolt is a reimagining.

Also, canon is more than just continuity. If I 'make' my own Bible by adding stories that don't directly interfere with other Biblical events, it's still non-canon. Canon is usually decided by some authoritative entity, in this case the author, who has stated that Thunderbolt exists outside UC canon.

>>15052834

But isn't that par for the course? Obviously the Reuse-P device is a precursor to the more advanced forms of Newtype weaponry and besides it has a terrible side-effect - You need to be a quad cripple in order to use it.

Also, there's been a shitload of Gundams running around in the OYW. The ones that attack ABQ are GMs with the Gundam head, not actual mass-produced Gundams.

The Zeongs are specifically Unit 2 and Unit 3. Char only having the one doesn't disrupt the timeline at all.

>>15052869
The author said it wasn't main UC, so it isn't main UC.

/pol/'s that way, frogposter.

>>15052788
>If you are reffering to that infamous "If it's animated, its official" line, that was specifically in relation to ms designs

which is what people are talking about when they argue about Thunderbolt being canon or not.

Again, if it's animated it happened. Nothing to do with cannon or not. It happened.

>>15052972
>Again, if it's animated it happened.
Which has nothing to do with Thunderbolt being an AU.

MSG show and films contradict each other and Sunrise just considers them different accounts of historical events, or at least that was the simile used. But Zeta, CCA, and Unicorn use the films' events/mecha so one is clearly preferred here.

Thunderbolt once again is different so can be considered an alternate account.

>>15052972
you do realize if they make a thunderbolt zeta and hyaku shiki, that they would be canon to the thiderbolt story right? even the zakus look pretty different from normal ones. they clearly aren't apart of uc.

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>>15053045
>they clearly aren't apart of uc.
This is the mistake that people make with Gundam very often.

The fact of the matter is that UC is fiction just like the alternate universes. There is no actual line dividing fact from fiction there; they can do whatever they want with the designs and the truth is; it makes no difference.

I'll bet if Endless Waltz had come out today rather than 1999, there would be fagoos arguing about how it's a separate canon from Gundam Wing because the Gundams went through a makeover. With GoL, they'd have more """evidence""" to that point, when the fact of the matter is Sunrise does not give a shit, and likely never will. Quite the opposite; they celebrate the idea of alternate interpretations of their fiction. Individual employees at Sunrise may have their own individual interpretations (I.E. whatever is animated is official) but there's never been an actual golden rule.

All is admissable on the simple fact that is is also all fiction. The idea of a consistant internal canon in entirely 100% an invention of the fanbase. Even the lore books that people quote and reference ALL. THE. FUCKING. TIME., often without realizing it, conflict with each other on numerous points, particularly with matters involving early UC (which I think the Origin anime is capitalizing on; there is technically no TRUE early UC and Sunrise's word is god, but they'll happily use the RX-78-02 rather than the original RX-78-2 design so that nothing is truly set in stone.)

tl;dr STOP worrying about it. The only fools in the room are the people trying to make out a consistent reality out of a fictional universe that sometimes even internally runs particularly on the idea of what-ifs and what-if-nots to stay interesting to it's audience. Shut up. I never thought I'd employ this cliche, but you people need to get a fucking life.

>>15053079
>I'll bet if Endless Waltz had come out today rather than 1999
Or 1997/98 or whatever, you get my point.

>>15052657
It's part of the UC timeline and takes place during the OYW.

>>15052760
>autismspeaks.org

>>15053668
nope, read the manga

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>>15052657
AT
WHAT
FUCKING
POINT
IN
MAINLINE
UC
DOES
A
MASSIVE
CONFEDERATION
OF
FUCKING
MONKS
EVER
APPEAR

FUCK BLUNDERBOLT FAGGOTS

>>15053079
This.

There's also the misconception that "non-canon" products are somehow illegitimate. You see people level it against Zeta/Unicorn/whatever's in season to hate. It's not canon, therefore it's illegitimate, therefore all discussions of it are null and void.

>>15054082
UC. 0080.

>But NOT CANON
See >>15053079

>>15053079
Except the ew not being canon (or at the very least it being an alternate universe from wing TV show since everyone also agreed that wing tv series is god awful and everyone should just talk about ew as if it is gundam wing in its entirety) argument was a consensus upon release among fans iirc.

>>15054095
>>15053079
its almost sad how retarded you fags are, they are a sepreate canon were there are major differences. hence A Baoa Qu, why is this such a hard concept.

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>>15054103
Actually, at the time of release, everybody thought the Gundams were actual in-universe upgrades. Even many Japanese fans, at first, misread that whole situation.

There are still many westerners that still believe that.

>>15054095
Citie a non-Blunderbolt source and I will believe you. Also, half of Zeon military DID NOT refuse to stand down and maintain large scale maneuver forces, they dug holes and hid like roaches. This is canon, therefore everything Blunderbolt shows about massed Zeon maneuver forces holding massive amount of functioning territory in a sovereign capacity is outright fucking wrong.

Blunderbolt is horrid fanfiction. End of discussion.

>>15054106
No, that is literally the correct interpretation of Gundam lore consistancy; There are no "separate canons" in UC, and any effort to segregate shit into sensible, consistent timelines is not only Black_Knight-tier autism, but also an effort of the fans and not Sunrise themselves.

Sure, the artist of the Gundam Thunderbolt Manga can say his work is separate from UC, but Sunrise has never officially said anything of the sort, and do you see any such statements about the OVA? No, quite the opposite; a lot of the marketing for the anime and even the manga claim it as part of UC because the need for "canons" isn't something Sunrise as a whole really wants to bother with. It just gets in the way of marketing their plastic toys when you have to go the extra mile, and actually clarifying anything requires work nobody there really wants to waste board meetings or press releases on.

The only sad people are the ones trying to make historical sense of a giant robot cartoon. (I.E. you.)

>>15054121
>Citie a non-Blunderbolt source and I will believe you.
By that logic, 0083 never happened because Zeta didn't mention an extra colony drop that happened 4 years ago, which is a LOT bigger than some secessionist killer buddists. Might as well separate that into an extra canon, too, since literally NOTHING outside of 0083 even references that incident.

>Also, half of Zeon military DID NOT refuse to stand down and maintain large scale maneuver forces, they dug holes and hid like roaches. This is canon, therefore everything Blunderbolt shows about massed Zeon maneuver forces holding massive amount of functioning territory in a sovereign capacity is outright fucking wrong.
The only thing separating the Thunderbolt Zeon remnants from any others is the fact that they have a Dolos Class-ship serving as a makeshift underwater headquarters. They are not nearly as big a deal as you faggots make them out to be.

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>>15054170
Keep in mind, I am NOT saying that it wouldn't be easier to just throw Thunderbolt into it's own corner of Gundam canon just for consistancy's sake, like the author intends; I'm just saying that Sunrise has made no effort to segregate it -themselves-, any any claims to the contrary and entirely based on fan logic and the claims of the source material's mangaka.

>A new TV/OVA series breaking established lore
>Bandai caring about lore consistency
>Japan caring about lore consistency

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>>15054195
Is everything just Rashomon to them?

>>15054193
the kits dont have universal century on it. closed case.

>>15054170
Titans was formed "for an unknown reason" basically until 0083 came along. 0083 wasn't directly referenced but there's a space for it.

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Further proof thunderbolt is an AU

>>15052760
So victory is non canon? Good to know

>>15053079
This.
Bandai doesn't care whats "canon" only what is "official"
They'll retcon/reboot/reimagine things as they see fit as long as it makes money

The manga is AU

The animated ONA is not.

On that matter the animated Origin OVAs are canon as well.

/thread

>>15054545
Prove it

>>15054555

They tweaked the mechanics to make it line up better with the canon.

If 08th MS team which directly contradicts MSG with GMs and Gundams before even Odessa can fit in the canon. There's no reason Thunderbolt can't either.

Every new side story has radically redesigned the old GMs and Zakus, this is no different.

>>15054517
>So victory is non canon? Good to know

Gundam fandom can be divided into tiers :

the bottom tier : the guys are desperate to have a coherent UC timeline, so they pick and choose whatever series are necessary to make the outcome come true. Of course they're deluded but what can we do to enlighten them ?

the mid tier : mostly follows Sunrise's/Tomino's/Bandai's view on the different timelines. Contradictions and all.

the god tier : doesn't give a shit about all the inconsistencies with a single timeline, alternate continuities and alternate universes. Are adepts of the Macross philosophy when it comes to events depicted in the anime. Unfortunately very very few Gundam-tards have achieved this level of enlightenment.

>>15054601
Gundam fan tiers: Fixed version

>God tier
Those who accept that certain series take priority over others as canon even if all series still 'officially' exist.

>Mid tier
Has a Macross/Robotech view of canon where everything exists

>Shit tier
Those who try to intentionally misinterpret Bandai/Sunrise's stance to claim everything is canon, but use their own biases to say some are more canon than others.

>>15054170
>>15054545

Unlike Origins though, where we're getting Bandai retconning the different designs into different models, Thunderbolt's redesigns even in the anime still keep the same model number and name as the originals.

I guess you could just say that it's an EW situation, but when they're adding stuff like mass produced legless Zeongs (which appear in the movie version) it becomes somewhat questionable.

>>15055087
>Thunderbolt's redesigns even in the anime still keep the same model number and name as the originals.
I thought all of them had the [Thunderbolt Sector version] label attached to them. They don't get an official variant code letter assigned to them because they didn't come off the factory lines that way, but were local modifications.

That said, it doesn't make sense that the other Zeon troops stationed elsewhere coming to save the Living Dead troops still had Thunderbolt style machines like those Gelgoogs.

>>15055114

They don't have different names, even for the anime versions.


However, looking at the descriptions in the anime site, their profiles do explain that they've been customized, explaining the differences between the base models and these. I guess that means they ARE trying to make the anime canon.

In the Thunderbolt manga doesn't the battle of A Baou Qu turn out different in that the Feddies not only win, they fucking stomp the shit out of the Zeeks?

>>15055125
the merchandise says [Gundam Thunderbolt] ver for all of them.

Thunderbolt and Sentinel are definitely AU due to the immense gulf in tech level each series has from the current setting.

>>15054632
Your "god tier" and "shit tier" are exactly the same
>certain series take priority over others as canon
>some are more canon than others
>even if all series still 'officially' exist
>claim everything is canon

I bet the only difference is whether people agree with you on which shows take priority.

>>15055728

Oh, yeah, the new releases list them like that. I hadn't seem them - in the old ones they just replaced the "Universal Century" bit under HG with "Gundam Thunderbolt".

>>15054505
What does that prove?

>>15054632
hey black knight even if you don't have your trip on we know your autistic posting style :)

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>>15054193
Give BlackJack his gun back, you thief

The only people who are obssessed with canon are the western side of the world, in japan they do not give a single fuck

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>>15054505
>manga
None of the manga are canon. Not even the 0079 one.

I just wonder how they are going to explain Atlas Gundam's existence in the immediate post-OYW

>>15056194
Same way they explained the GP line and everything in Sentinel and AoZ, they will make models and get money while you tear your hair over their canon status

>>15056173
the ova so far has almost been an exact copy of the manga.

>>15056194
in the manga they said it was from stolen zeon tech.

>>15056260
>Stupid Monkey-Gundam
>Not making a Gundam-zeong mix for space superiority

Federation stealing zeon-tech is almost as lame as the alternative timeline where Zeon would be stealing Federation tech. The zeon gundam is literally just the gundam design painted green

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>>15056280
i like atlas, i feel more people will like it when we see it in motion
the ver ka kit is gonna be crazy

>>15056288
I'd like the Atlas's design more if its joints weren't so prominent and ugly. The rest of it I find fairly nice.

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>>15056325
i see where youre coming from, but i think it gives it character.
tfw probably no thunderbolt zeta or mk 2

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>>15056256
>the ova so far has almost been an exact copy of the manga.
Irrelevant. You can't use the manga as a reference to argue that the OVA is not part of the UC continuity. The manga have always been notoriously inconsistent even among themselves. Because of that fact, the manga stories are not considered canon.

>>15053079
this is the shittiest and long winded justification I've seen yet.
The author already said it's a different timeline. Plus there are events in thunderbolt that contradict that or the original shows.

Following your logic, I could also rationalize 00 being a part of the UC timeline.

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>>15054115
>Actually, at the time of release, everybody thought the Gundams were actual in-universe upgrades. Even many Japanese fans, at first, misread that whole situation.
It really wasn't a misreading when even Bandai themselves were calling it that at first.

Only nerds care about canon. It's a fucking giant robot anime.

>>15052834
>Zeong production line
actually that one is canon, it's been known for decades that besides the one Char uses, several more Zeongs were being built, Char's was just the only one complete enough to be used in combat(since the differences between the Perfect Zeong and Char's one are near nonexistent performance wise to my knowledge), indeed of the Mobile Armors seen in the original series, all of them except the Big Zam had more than one made if you look around in side materials

>>15052866
exactly

>>15052657
I personally think of canonicity as anything that doesn't contradict the established timeline may as well be canon. In the case of Thunderbolt, it is essentially an AU. It is a universe a lot closer to the UC one in terms of differences, but you can think of it as having deviated from the UC in the way their technology progresses, since Thunderbolt is more technologically advanced. Despite that, though, there is probably an Amuro and a Char in that universe, along with most of what you'd expect from UC, but it's safe to say it is a different universe from the original UC. Maybe this hints that some of what happens in Thunderbolt might also have happened in UC, such as Munzo getting destroyed, but there is almost certainly no Thunderbolt Gundam in the UC.

Just my thoughts.

>>15056790
>(since the differences between the Perfect Zeong and Char's one are near nonexistent performance wise to my knowledge)
Perfect Zeong has legs and would perform quite a lot differently. Char's Zeong acts more like a space fighter or mobile armor with arms, given how it has most of its thrusters concentrated at the skirt. Perfect Zeong is far heavier and is substantially slower due to the added mass of the legs and would handle more like a normal MS, but would be capable of using AMBAC to change orientation.

>>15056790
The Zeong production line makes it look like they weren't intending to give them legs at all though, which contradicts Char's Zeong being incomplete.

>>15056478
well then we dont have to use that and use the fact that feddies caped the most important zeon research base that was supposed to be blown up.

Who the fuck is married to this shit thread to keep it bumped

>>15057172
>implying this thread is shit

There is some excellent conversation going on in here.

>>15055956
That GMs in the thunderbolt universe have core blocks, which is never shown in any other animation or manga

>>15057398
Just because it isn't animated doesn't mean it's not part of other series. The wiki says the good old jims have core blocks

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>>15057398

The Master Grade kits demonstrate that the GMs do have core BLOCKS -- but not Core FIGHTERS.

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>>15057865
Actually, come to think of it, every GM kit I've ever owned had a core block.

It's fucking weird, because official lore both states that the GM omits the core block system, but also that Federation mobile suit construction is specifically designed to facilitate the core block system, with the armor serving as the primary load-bearing structure in the torso.

So they both have a core block system, and at the same time, do not. Even the MG manual for the RGM-79 mentions the lack of the core block system yet references it's use a paragraph later.

I think the best compromise is just to say what you said; the GM omits the use of the costly core fighter, but not the system that docks with it.

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>>15054517
Nothing from F91 or Victory is contradicted by the new canon created by ANT (since it doesn't contradict CCA either.), so they, themselves, remain canon.

NEXT

>>15054505
>Online manga readers
>Mobile poster
Step aside son, let a professional handle this and enjoy the irony that by proving you wrong, I'm going to prove you right.

It's well known that the core block fighter system was considered to costly to implemented int the GM lines, so while Feddie mobile suit parts were modular, all you had was a core block if you were stuck in GM and weren't able to fly off unlike if you were in a Gundam. Now, the fun part about Thunderbolt is those 'Core Blocks' people are chatting about in this thread? They turn into their own Core Fighters, as seen in this page which occurs AFTER the Feddie forces are limping home after getting shredded by the Zeon snipers. Also the group was entirely made of GMs so you can't say a lone Guncannon was in the group to explain how the core fighter was there.

Oh, and the Guncannon piloted by the kid that gets disabled? She ejects off the other parts to show it uses the exact same core fighter model as the GMs.

Bang

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>>15058518
Whoops, forgot my trip.

But here's the core fighter the GunCannon uses.

>>15058518

>She

It's a he, why is this so fucking confusing? Does he look like he has breast bags on his pilot suit?

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>>15058526
>You must have C-G cups to prove you're a girl
Next!

>>15058051
Wasn't one of the big differences from the gundam itself is that it had a core fighter giving it the ability to dock on its own accord?

>>15058535

Hm, stand corrected.

For some reason I always thought he was talking to someone else and it's a bit of a weird break - maybe it's trying to simulate cockpit lighting, but the suits female Feddie pilots wear are darker in color as well as having an obvious 'breastplate'.

>>15054193
Nice Astray.

>>15052657
>>15061727
Great resurrection, AC-canon shitposter

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Best tank

>>15061755
best shitposting

>>15054193
Am I the only one that thinks putting a different head on the Atlas would make it look better? Because it doesn't look like a Gundam at all.

BTW the 5 latest manga chapter have been scanned as there have been raw for big comic superior recently

Raven Fu wants Daryl to stop hating Io for a new future

>>15052788
>as addressed anything about the animated series being official
Anything made with the authority of the IP owners is official.

>>15062834
It would help, but the whole thing is hideous.