/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General Thread

https://www.amazon.com/Dichronauts-Greg-Egan/dp/159780892X/

Has anyone read this book? The description is weirdly intriguing, and I found out it actually has a big website explaining how the physics of its setting works.

http://www.gregegan.net/DICHRONAUTS/00/DPDM.html

>>9750631
*tugs braid*

>>9750689
kys Nynaeve

>>9750392
didn't see the old/new testament god angle, nicely spotted

did you feel Bridgers death was a little out nowhere or a bit random? It makes sense about him losing himself when he wears outfits, but it seemed fairly unplanned unlike the reveal of Major as Achilles which was better signposted

>>9750631
*straightens skirt*

*releases awesomeness*

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NO MORMONS ALLOWED

>>9750773
Mycroft mentioned that part about people wanting to jump into the exact chapter where their favourite fictional character died and saving them and that proposition that Bridger is the MC at one point.

>>9750804
problem, gentile? :-^)

>>9750797
>kid being the usual waste of space to humanity
>why is a kid in a book annoying to an adult
>why should the ignorance of a kid piss me off
>I'm too stupid to understand they were a kid
>let me post about it every thread to notify everyone I'm stupid as fuck, and have no right to be reading books where comprehension and logical thinking is required
>*releases awesomeness*
>I did it again

>>9750979
nice pasta, but we need to make it longer

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Whomever showed this summer reddite fags to spoiler needs to be put infront of a firing squad. And riddled with 1000 freedums a second.

I'm a few months away from finishing my low fantasy debut novel. It's not my first manuscript, but it is the first thing of mine that I want published once I've polished it. Assuming it finds a publisher, would it be valid to worry about unreasonable demands from editors? E.g. telling me to add sex scenes even though it's gratuitous and I hate writing (or even reading) smut.

I want the amish to leave

>>9750999
trips confirm amish should leave

>>9750991
you know you're humblebragging, right?

Do any of you have a particular story that you love? So you excitedly look up the author and read the rest of their shit only to find that one story was an exception and the rest are all beyond shit?

I just had that moment. Read something, loved it, looked them up and found everything else they've done is pure romance shit and smut. The one I liked was mostly bildungsroman with a little action/romance on the side. God their prose and humour was so fucking perfect too. Fucking women authors and their smut.

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I enjoyed this book a lot. An alien being from planet 'Anthea' (probably Mars) lands on Earth, disguising himself as a human. He soon begins to amass a fortune by patenting the inventions of his more technologically advanced species; his ultimate aim being the salvation of his near-extinct race. The narrative follows his progress as he makes friends, and others become increasingly curious about him. Tevis has a way of writing that is effortless to read, a realist style with relatable characters, thoughtful allusions - Icarus and Rumplestiltzkin - and his dialogue rolls off the page. There's a lot in here about human nature; hedonistic, unthinking, capable of good and bad. The protag also seems to be a stand-in for the author. Anyway, it's among the best SF I've read, and doesn't feel at all dusty and irrelevant for being written in 1963.

>>9750985
>google it
>it's original
>i know feel stupid for calling it pasta

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>>9751014
Sounds nice, will give it a try. When I googled it apparently there is a movie.
(Is every book a movie at some point?)

>>9751011
Yeah, sorry, I was just trying to give my question some context. I'll go flagellate myself now.

>>9751042
The David Bowie movie from 1974, yes. I haven't seen it, but Philip K Dick was apparently nuts about it - about a quarter of his Valis is a thinly veiled allusion to it. Although the movie is meant to have a very different tone, more surreal and dreamlike. I'll be seeing it for myself this weekend.

>>9751042
>anti-dinofag is reading a 1963 book
What?

>lmao Kellhus, we [the dunyain] have usurped the consult
>the inchiroi are byproducts of us from the future
>know that the tekne is logos, logos is tekne!
>behold the salvation the no god!
>Die Daddy!
>the second apocalypse begins for real

Now we wait for some years to know what happens next.

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Has anybody read Rob Kroese?

>>9751275
>author self inserts himself into the novel as the main protagonist
>R on his space suit to boost his own ego

>>9750807
Hmmm ok
I more meant the entire putting on clothes and costumes etc, the whole "I remember taking away all the costumes"
a page before the death was a little WOWZA but hey it's still 10/10

>>9751013
Ender's Game
Scarlet Plague
Adam Roberts

So far I'm done with the first draft of my novel and while I do something else for 6 weeks to later go back and read it with a fresh mind, I had a couple of people read it. I've gotten mostly positive reactions, but a lot of them seem to get hung up on something.

You see, one of the characters who is a Vargr (A mind-magician that can take control of the animal they're connected with) finds himself in a situation that he can't get out of alive. Thus, before dying, he puts his mind in his companion animal and "survives".

Most of the people who have read it considers it somewhat awkward to have this wolf strutting about that only the Main Character and other Vargrs can understand.

What do you think based on this alone? Does it really sound that weird?

>>9751646
Does he fuck other wolves?
Sex questions are real

>>9751562
Hmmm ok
I more meant the entire putting on clothes and costumes etc, the whole "I remember taking away all the costumes"
a page before the death was a little WOWZA but hey it's still 10/10

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What should I read next, /sffg/? These have all been friend's recommendations. I dislike the Vorkosigan books, loved dune and neuromancer, liked the others.

>>9751759
>ads
install an ad blocker you reatrd

Give me a book/collection just like tales of the dying earth, I don't feel like reading anything else

>>9751759
Based on Neuromancer you could try some PKD, who was sort of the precursor to cyberpunk with things like Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, or Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson which is a sort of exaggerated pastiche/parody of the genre. Not sure about Dune, I haven't found anything that similar and Herbert's other works are sort of underwhelming.

>>9750730
I actually like Nynaeve. She's literally the best tsundere I've ever read about.

>>9751769
Never read either but I heard Wolfe and BotNS etc is Vance-esc

>>9751759
Stross if you want some agressive cyberpunk
Blindsight if you want to join our Shilling Coalition

>>9751759
Iain M Banks, Ian McDonald, Bruce Sterling, Pat Cadigan, Michael Swanwick, Alastair Reynolds

feel like there's someone obvious I'm forgetting as well but fuck it

>>9751646
Is he exactly the same (personality/abilites) as before just in wolf form ? If so, then it might be a bit weird. These sorts of transformations could become more interesting when they bring about a serious conflict such as forgeting your old self or becoming too much wolflike.

>>9751766
Doesn't that necessitate a root?
>>9751858
I think I'll read PKD, he seems important to the genre, thank you
>>9751963
Which Stross novels senpai?
>>9751970
Could you specify your favorite novels of theirs?

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For real though, what books of Egan's are neat?

>>9752178
adaway needs root, dns66 doesn't

What's some mythology that has never been used for a fantasy setting? Alternatively, what are some works based on rarely used mythology?

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>>9750631
Anybody read Book Of Tongues by Gemma Files? Because I'm reading it right now and it's fucking amazing.
>Old West Preacher in the Civil War
>Gets Hanged
>Getting hanged gives him magic powers
>His lover is a blood-hungry gunslinger
>they drink absinth and kill people
>Crazy Aztec goddess wants to shake shit up
It's a straight fucking masterpiece and somebody needs to confirm this.

>>9752192
I don't think I've ever seen Babylonian fantasy. Biblical cultures in general are underused - Tim Powers' Anubis Gates is the only one that really springs to mind for Egypt. Pre-Islamic Persia is doing a bit better thanks to the Arabian Nights, and Mieville has picked up bits and pieces like khepri from Egypt or golems from Israel. Very little Eastern European either, I feel like there's scope for a really gruesome Baba Yaga book.

>>9752178
Iain M Banks: the Culture novels generally. Consider Phlebas is the first one and a pretty good starting point; I also personally like Excession a lot.

Ian McDonald: River of Gods

Bruce Sterling: Islands in the Net

Pat Cadigan: Tea From An Empty Cup

Michael Swanwick: Stations of the Tide

Alastair Reynolds: Revelation Space

>>9752260
there's hella Eastern European stuff, it's just usually more literary/fairy tale based and less the kind of Big Epic High Fantasy that certain people tend to focus on

>>9752188
>>9752285
Thanks senpai

>>9751930
Nynaeve is a very poor tsundere because she spends too much time on the tsun and not enough on the dere. Being a good tsundere is all about balancing the two.

>>9751646
How do you tell the story now that he has become the wolf? Does he think different? the novel forces the reader to put himself in the wolf's shoes? Or does he still think like a normal human?
Those are not question you have to answer here, just some that might make me feel weird if they aren't properly written.

New Black Company when?
Soldiers Live, mainly due to it's rather bitter ending disappointed me. I hate such endings.
I heard the author had plans for more books in the series

Book of the New Sun was rather good lads, I must say.

Guys where can a get an Unholy Consult epub or mobi?

>>9753043
B-ok.org

>>9753043
https://forum.mobilism.org/viewtopic.php?f=1293&t=2143244&hilit=the+unholy+consult

>>9750631
If I cant find some classic sci fi at my local library, should I buy it? I want to read Old Man's War and Arthur C. Clarke and a load of other authors, but usually I only find their lesser known works instead of the classics.

>>9753290
P I R A C Y

>>9753296
Reading on a screen is garbage, and I don't have an ebook or anything like that.

*Smooths Skirt*

>>9751646
You stole from too many stories. You'll get shredded.

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>>9752285
>>9752328
>Reccing Consider Phlebas to a culture noob
The book is not only bad on its own terms, its a bad intro to the culture. Go for Player of Games as an intro instead.

>>9753298
Buy one.
It's much cheaper in the long run

>>9752260
You need to read more.

>>9752192
Japanese is over used (by the Japanese themselves)
Greek / Roman over used
Egyptian over used
Hindu over used
Chinese not so much but getting there
Norse over used
American Natives over used / underused
European over used as fuck
Steal from African countries, the Caribbean or South America

>>9753331
State of the art is a short story that shorthand explains the premise of what the culture is, I'd recommend that.

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>>9752634
>there is no spurdo for Black Company
Someone make a croaker one. Make sure to mention soul catcher and lady.

>>9753290
I feel I can speak for everyone here in saying that an extensive personal collection is a must!

Hey /sffg/,
I'm wondering if you've got any advice. I recently started a project where I sit down and write every night. Just whatever starts to flow. I've noticed that I really like writing fantasy, and I've started shifting towards actually piecing together something that approaches an ongoing narrative about a young man in a "middle-earth" like setting who is just exploring and trying to chisel out an existence as a sword for hire. Good stuff!

My problem is, I notice that my writing becomes very static and formulaic at times. Like, I'll be writing about him wandering down the road and I get caught up in describing what feels like every step. I occasionally get out of this rut and have a few parts that actually read smoothly, but the rest of it is very "stiff".

How do I got about showing the world that surrounds my protagonist without getting caught up in explaining everything he encounters in a static fashion? (In particular, how do you do this in a "fantasy" or alien setting, where the reader may not be familiar with some of the concepts that are intrinsic to an unusual or unfamiliar world?

>>9753561
Orphans of Chaos

>>9753586
Don't know what that has to do with the post you quoted, but is that book worth a read?

>>9751646
This sounds familiar...

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>>9753561
Don't write about middle earth unless it's for personal use. Tolkeinesque fantasy is the worst.

Also it sounds like you are a world building fag. Write your world, everything you want to describe, then have your protagonist explore it, animals inhabit it, people live in it.
If you want start small scale. Describe your room or basement in miniscule detail. Then have a mouse or ferret explore it. When you confident you got everything, write your orc territory stealth novel.

Where to start with Vance? Dying Earth? Is he influenced by any other writers?

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>>9753728
Try the great dinosaurs. Pic related.

>>9751157
>death came swirling down

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>>9753748
>tfw finished all 5 of the books in time
>tfw reading a 1000 page novel atm
>tfw can't meme with the best of them

Anyone know where I could get GW's Castle of Days (any format)?

>>9753607
It's real bad.

>>9751759
Foundation had some interesting ideas but the characters were thin and the plot just kind of meandered its way into the combined robots and empire universe. It didn't seem very focused and it was obvious he was making it up as he went.

What fantasy book has the most interesting non-human races?

>>9753298
I got one used for 30$, have read like 15 books on it since. Pays for itself senpai. Buy it used, lot of people buy them and never use them.

>>9754098
Interesting how?

Sci-fi set in the not so distant future with solid predictions? I liked the tech in rainbow's end but the plot felt flat.

>>9754157

In your own criteria, the one that most interested you.

>>9751646
Is this a joke or are you doing Jon Snow fanfiction without knowing it?

>>9754098
Honestly, the most interesting races I've seen were in H. Rider Haggard. They're all human, but Dutch, English, Portuguese, Bantu all have distinct national characters aside from their personalities; like how escaped slaves know that if they find Englishmen, odds are they'll be opposed to slavery. Of course there are exceptions to these national characters, but mostly it's played straight, rather seamlessly with their personalities whether they're heroes or villains.

>>9753367
State of the Art is also pretty weak as far as culture stories go, and while I enjoy Notes on the Culture it would probably come off as dry to someone unfamiliar with the series. There are solid arguments for all three of the starting books. Consider Phlebas is a great story that has weaknesses with pacing. Player of Games is more solid technically but lacks that first novel imagination. Use of Weapons combines the strong points of both, but then you're starting three in (not that there's anything to stop you from doing that). I tend to default to recommending release order.

>>9754098
Bas-Lag

>>9754098
Bakker has dickgirls

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>>9752975
>Book of the New Sun was rather good lads, I must say.
Good lad

>>9753781
I got a copy from amazon (UK) a few weeks ago for £12.50 but now it's £17.99

>>9752975
You've done well anon.

>>9753781
I have it as an EPUB which I got in an old and possibly dead torrent. This place should allow EPUB uploads, think of the amount of piracy we could get done.

>>9753781
>>9754308
I have a complete collection of Gene Wolfe's Solar Cycle works gathering dust somewhere on my hard drive that a kind ega/lit/arian uploaded here a few years ago, like way back in 2013 or so. Let me have a dig around.

>>9754399
Does it include Plan[e]t Engineering?

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>>9754408
Not sure. Here's the README from that anon.

And here is the file.

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:7bb0a89fed1286bf3ea158bae3d20fef006feaae&dn=SCCC-GW.zip&tr=http%3a%2f%2ft.nyaatracker.com%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fretracker.mgts.by%3a80%2fannounce&tr=https%3a%2f%2fopen.kickasstracker.com%3a443%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.tfile.co%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.yoshi210.com%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.city9x.com%3a2710%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fpackages.crunchbangplusplus.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fpt.lax.mx%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.opentrackr.org%3a1337%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.tfile.me%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fgrifon.info%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fretracker.telecom.by%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.torrentyorg.pl%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2foscar.reyesleon.xyz%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fthetracker.org%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.cyberia.is%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.halfchub.club%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.tiny-vps.com%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.vanitycore.co%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fpublic.popcorn-tracker.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fretracker.bashtel.ru%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker2.christianbro.pw%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fasnet.pw%3a2710%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.acg.gg%3a2710%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.xku.tv%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fns349743.ip-91-121-106.eu%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fzephir.monocul.us%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3a451%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.devil-torrents.pl%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fretracker.spark-rostov.ru%3a80%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fpeerfect.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2fshare.camoe.cn%3a8080%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.electro-torrent.pl%3a80%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftracker.tlm-project.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.zer0day.to%3a1337%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.justseed.it%3a1337%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.cypherpunks.ru%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftorrentsmd.eu%3a8080%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.swateam.org.uk%3a2710%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.doko.moe%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftorrentsmd.com%3a8080%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.christianbro.pw%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=http%3a%2f%2ftorrentsmd.me%3a8080%2fannounce&tr=https%3a%2f%2fopentracker-milanesi.rhcloud.com%3a443%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.tvunderground.org.ru%3a3218%2fannounce

Remember to thank kind anons that upload things like this in the first place. Not me, the original from years back.

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>>9752335
>Being a good tsundere is all about balancing the two.
Hell no.

"That's woman's circle business"

I picked up Red Rising because a *lot* of the people at Worldbuilders were goofy over the books, and, by extension, the author Pierce Brown.

Earlier this year, when I went to a convention where he was going to be in attendance, the Worldbuilders team told me that if I didn't capture Pierce like a Pokemon and bring him back to the office with me, I shouldn't bother coming home at all....

I got to hang out with Pierce there, and he was irritatingly polite, witty, and charming. That, combined with the degree of slavering fanaticism the Worldbuilders team was showing him, convinced me that I should really give the books a try.

And I wasn't disappointed. They're good. In fact I'd go so far as to call them great books.

I suspect a lot of people compare them to Hunger Games, but I think that's disservice to he books. Red Rising has a much deeper, richer world, more in-depth characterization, and a more complex plot.

That said, if you *liked* Hunger Games but you wanted more of those things, this book would probably make you happy as a pig with six tits. (Yeah. I don't know what that means. I mean, pigs already have six. But I'm honestly curious if people actually read these reviews of mine all the way through. So this is an experiment of sorts to see who is paying attention.)

So yeah. Good characters. Good Worldbuilding. Good Action. Good book. Worth your time.

>>9754492
You realize that graph says exactly what I stated, idiot? The good tsundere has an exact 50/50 balance of tsun and dere split right down the middle.

So why don't you take your infographics and go back to /pol/ where you belong.

>>9754744
I think it refers to how there are usually a large number of piglets energetically trying to get at a tit so imagine how happy it would be to get them all to itself

>>9754750
>everyone I don't agree with is /pol/

>>9754461
magnet broke :(
can you not mediafire/dropbox the files?

>>9754754
You're certainly as incapable of reading as the average /pol/tard considering the flow of this conversation.

>>9754756
So you think he's from /pol/ because he used an infographic? All infograpics are /pol/ because /pol/ is always right?

>>9754230
I started with Player of Games and I think that was a good call because it made it more of a surprise just how advanced the Culture was, and how they had planned everything out all along. In Consider Phlebas it just kind of tells you directly about all their super technology.

>>9754758
I think you're both from /pol/ because both of you are saying really fucking retarded things. "Hell no even though this image shows that I agree with you." Why are all of you jackasses so confrontational? Nynaeve is shitty because she's more of a "modern tsundere" type. Just those random fits of bitchiness everyone hates.

>>9750991
No one will ask you to add sex scenes to your garbage novel.

>>9750991
>low fantasy
Already uninterested.

>>9754461
great collection, thanks!

Tuon is eurasian

When robert jordan said dark he would mean swarvey or yellow not black.

Aka asian or maybe spanish looking.

>>9754750
That infograph doesn't say exactly what you said, it clearly says a good tsundere goes from full tsun to full dere.

No 50/50 split nonsense.

Is Greg Egan the only sci fi author worth reading?

>>9753586
>>9753791
>Orphans of Chaos
Seriously, why is this book a meme? I know it's like our Boku no Pico, but reading the plot pitch I even think it sounds interesting. What am I in for?

>>9754750
You can't even look at the graph, it seems. The good example is not a balance of tsun/dere, but a gradual switch from full tsun to dere. Fits Nynaeve just fine, for me.
>go back to /pol/ where you belong
Lol, not even close, mate.

>>9754881
Little girl protagonist.
It's actually quite good.

>>9754461
Too bad it has borski lol.

>>9754881
All of John C. Wright's concepts sound interesting. They *are* interesting; it's just that the quality of execution varies. Personally I think it's one of his lesser long works, but it has fans.

>When I first met him, Gene had a day job and looked like the most ordinary person in the world. In fact, I modeled the protagonist of Stations of the Tide after him—a man who on the outside looked like nobody special but on the inside was *Gene Wolfe.* After he left Plant Engineering, he cultivated that extraordinary mustache and acquired a wary, almost lupine expression.

>I find him very pleasant company on those rare occasions when we meet, but I’m always aware of his formidable intellect, the way that wolfpack members are always aware that their leader could rip them apart if he wanted. There are not many people so smart as to be literally scary. Gene’s one of them.

>>9754157
Fuzzy aural organs?

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>>9755185
Upboated, keklefriend!


Fuck you, you redditing nigger.

>>9755246
T.T

>>9754461
Keke I remember when this was posted. People were crying about seeds back then. They doing the same now.

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>>9754744
Welcome brother. New book when?
Also the starting is like hunger games. It made me physically ill to read through that finger in the air / hand on the chest BS at the beginning. But the anon that shilled it said to read past that. Once Darrow dies it becomes a rollercoaster ride going straight up to the ionosphere with rockets attached

>>9751014
I'm gonna read this, nice write-up

>>9755342
January.

>Brown also noted, "Several of the main characters in the next one will be gay. Darrow's heteronormative outlook has been changing after leaving the mines. He began embracing sexual fluidity and gay characters like Tactus."[3] He discussed the popularity of his novels among the LGBT community, adding "It's amazing that they have found a home in these books ... All these lost souls in my books have connected with people and I find it incredibly moving."[3]
>tfw we're all gay now

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Ready Player One movie shot

god I hated this book

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>>9755419
>Brown also noted, "Several of the main characters in the next one will be gay. Darrow's heteronormative outlook has been changing after leaving the mines. He began embracing sexual fluidity and gay characters like Tactus."[3] He discussed the popularity of his novels among the LGBT community, adding "It's amazing that they have found a home in these books
And dropped. I liked that Tactus was fucked up because of all the GRI with his older brother, but I'm not reading a book with buzz words like heteronormative and sexual fluidity. I really hope you're trolling, and Brown hasn't thrown away a great series and 70% of his readers for a vocal 5% minority.

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>>9755495
>occulus rift and Nintendo power gloves
Never read the books and now I never will.

>>9754762
>get btfo by infograph
>hurr durr you guys are nazis but also you agree with me but also your opinion is wrong
/pol/ is ALWAYS right

>>9755665
http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/649984/Pierce-Brown-Morningstar-film-casting-sequels-favourite-characters-fans
I wish I was trolling.

Can't be worse than the Powder Mage sequel trilogy, can it?

>>9755687
The pic says 50|50 it's not an abrupt cut, but it is 50|50. The guy should have said so. It's 50% nonetheless. How stupid are you?

>/pol/ is ALWAYS right
Pol is a cesspool Levi that keeps the contaminated filth from inundating the other boards, less the barrier be broken.

>>9755754
>Can't be worse than the Powder Mage sequel trilogy, can it?
There wasn't any lgbtfaggot-shit in the sequel that I remember. Just a type recast and a bunch of crocodile Dundees (dragon men in the place of privileged) fucking shit up.

>>9755665
>Dropping books because someone is gay
lmao

>>9754744
Hunger games premise isn't even bad and is far from being the first to do it, it's just executed terribly. You don't see people shit talking battle royale, even though I hated that manga, didn't read the book though.

Red rising had the first one of those kids murder each other stories I actually liked, people bitching about the premise of the first book should stick to outer /lit/ if it's too low brow for them, not really a proper criticism in a general for genre fiction. What should actually be criticized is the weak main villain, I thought the Jackal was by far the weakest part of the series, he loses badly in the first book and the only way he gets any upper hand on Darrow is when he lucks into it thanks to that treasonous bitch, a 60 IQ villain could have captured him at that point, we're constantly told how smart he is but barely see any of it. Think his dad would have worked better, should have been the other way around at the end of book 2. At least Aja was there to make up for it. Also the howlers were a bit cringe at times, and of course the worst fans of the series instantly identify with those.

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>>9755754
Well I was about to give red rising a go. Never mind. Thank you /lit/

>>9755806
The first book has literally one gay character who isn't even gay until the second book. Stop being a pussy and read it.

>>9755820
No I find fags repulsive. It's a natural biological reaction after all. And when you start throwing insane buzz words like "heteronormative" and "gender fluidity" you're obviously just pushing cultural marxist propaganda. No thanks.

>>9755837
>It's a natural biological reaction after all.
Yeah, because animals beat homosexual animals to death all the time.
Hate gays all you want, but have the fucking dignity to not pretend it's anything other bigotry.

>>9755495
Wasn't the main character overweight in that book?

>>9755874
>an overweight character
>a main character
who are you kidding?

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>>9755863
I'll take lunarsexuals any day, but gay is just wrong.

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>>9755863
>natural
>means apply animal logic to humans

>>9752975

Does he ever get out of that bloody city?

>>9755863
>finding something repulsive
>means I'm going to look for fags to murder.
Overreacting a bit aren't you my delicate anon? I'm not looking to beat anyone to death I just don't want that degeneracy constantly shoved in my face by groups that are actively trying to tear down traditional values. Frankly living that lifestyle is it's own punishment when you look at the rampant drug use, disease, suicide, etc that is prevalent within that subculture.

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>>9755899
>humans aren't animals

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Baron Trump's Marvelous Underground Journey
by Ingersoll Lockwood (1893)
An opening in arctic Russia conveys Trump into the interior world, He passes through the strange countries of The Transparent Folk, the Rattlebrainsm and others. This lost race story is satirical and intended for adults as well as children.

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>>9755907
>chimpanzees abandoning their young is natural because turtles do it

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>>9755911
>Original post didn't even compare specific animals, just made the argument that gay animals aren't treated any differently

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>>9754356

Whatever happened to the practise of putting winrar'd books inside jpegs? That was super handy.

>>9755915
Cannibalistic animals aren't treated any differently. It's natural for some animals to be cannibalistic, not for humans; and you can see terrible consequences for human societies that have adopted cannibalism.

>>9755906
So you admit you're a bigot?

>>9755926
>implying that's a bad thing

>>9755926
Name calling is not an argument

>>9755925
Okay, you win.

Can we all agree that nightfall by asimov is the best sci-fi. story of all time transcending the genre and making it one of the best stories in lit, in general?

>>9755926
n-no sir, please don't call me a bigot, I'll do anything as long as you don't think I'm prejudiced

>>9755940
Neither is a vague tirade of "traditional values" being attacked. Not a good one anyway

>>9755947
>falling for pretty imagery.
C-Chute was superior out of the same anthology.

>>9755956
Who said anything about traditional values? It was a very specific tirade about gays being disgusting.

>>9755948
not that guy, but I've only read the thread up to where you said having an aversion to homo's is "natural" you instantly went to semantic Territory there, and you're technically wrong. but loving them and sucking their dicks ala sweden ain't natural either.

In reality most creatures are indifferent about homos and fag-hatred and fag love is two sides of the same coin, both social constructs and likely both have some ideological or mental issues.

>>9755925
There are very few animals that are inherently cannibalistic inside their own species. Humans are also spontaneously cannibalistic. Cannibalism is an aberration, or a result of duress. Comparing cannibalism and homosexuality isn't an argument.

It's like saying oranges aren't edible because poisonous plants also have seeds, sometimes.

Homosexuality has an observable purpose in the animal kingdom, namely adoption. It's been observed in a number of species. You're a fucking bigot. Just fucking accept it and move on.

>>9755961
Social constructs are tautologically based on mental issues, but some mental issues are really good for everyone. Fag-hatred and fag-love are fighting each other for dominance of our completely natural social construct, civilization, and we'll probably get to see which one wins out this century.

>>9755970
>implying bigotry doesn't have an even more important purpose in the animal kingdom

>>9755970
>You're a fucking bigot. Just fucking accept it and move on.
Where do you think you are?

>>9755956
>vague tirade
Secular studies have shown that children raised by traditional families have much lower rates of drug use, depression, suicide; have higher rates of success, confidence, etc. compared to those raised by same sex couples. Saying that traditional values vs "progressive" ones when it comes to homosexuality are equivalent is wrong and there is empirical evidence that supports this.

TLDR facts>feelings. Normalizing homosexuality is bad for society

>>9755983
He's not saying to leave. Just be honest. Don't try to dress it up as a "natural" instinct. Just admit that you hate fags because of the way you were raised/personal social experience.

You know, I could tell Red Rising was tipping towards the whole liberal agenda thing. I wouldn't even mind it, except when it starts to negatively affect characters and get included in books for no reason other than to appeal to retarded feminists that want to hear about how gay everyone is and how amazing women are.

The actual three books in the series aren't so bad, but Mustang does randomly go off on a tangent and start a speech about how she definitely wasn't jumping on alpha chad cock because she was hurt by him and wanted to hurt him or whatever. And MC of course immediately understands 200%. Oh no, we can't have misogynistic or otherwise flawed characters, can we?

And of course, now it's confirmed in an interview.

Possibly the worst offender of this ever would be that shitty Bloodsong sequel though. Nothing will ever beat that.

>>9755988
>implying the way you were raised is not the product of a specific, evolved culture
>implying it is unnatural to retain the moral system you were raised with

>>9755992
Would have felt more realistic for Darrow to be a womanizer honestly, as part of the trauma of losing Eo.

>>9755979
You know I could probably take you more seriously if you didn't talk like a fucking retard.
>implying bigotry doesn't become exclusively detrimental once it stops being directed toward actual threats.

>>9755992
>but Mustang does randomly go off on a tangent and start a speech about how she definitely wasn't jumping on alpha chad cock because she was hurt by him and wanted to hurt him or whatever. And MC of course immediately understands 200%. Oh no, we can't have misogynistic or otherwise flawed characters, can we?
What the fuck are you even trying to say here? What does misogynistic characters have to do with Mustang being with Chad? Did you expect Darrow, a guy who has a close neice, sister, and mother to go full /r9k/? You seem a little biased

>>9756008
>implying homosexuality is not a colossal hazard for public health
>implying we wouldn't be as close as we are to widespread antibiotic-immune diseases if gays didn't spread STDs so much

>>9755986
Well link them then

>>9756010
>having female relatives means you're OK with your girl cheating on you

>>9755992
>reading post-90's fiction without looking into the politics of the author first
you were asking to be cucked, boy. Progressive Ideology these days is how you showcase your virtue and its to be applied to every aspect of your life very bluntly and ungracefully for moral points, and as we've seen with Hollywood reboots: profit be damned! If someone, somewhere thinks I'm some kind of "-ist" no amount of money loss will stop me from making sure they understand I am not.
#blacklivesmatter

>>9756010
I understand I may not have phrased it well. What I expected was not for Mustang to launch in a speech about how full of girl power she is and she's a perfect character unflawed in any way. Even if she was, that's OK. We don't need to hear it stated full out in the most dumb shit way of telling us just because the editor wanted to capture the feminist audience.

And I would expect Darrow to be at the very least slightly pissed, even if he's OK with it overall. Instead the speech happens, they both agree she's an amazing woman that does nothing wrong, and then they move on and never talk of it again for the rest of the books.

It fucking reeks of catering to liberal shit at the cost of the story's quality.

>>9756023
Brown was a Republican though, he caught a lot of flak when it came out that he worked for some conservative pol's campaign. That's why we're so blindsided.

>>9751646
is your character's name Jon or Fitz?

>>9756023
the only way to not invest time into a cuck story is to look into the politics of all post-2005 authors

Can we stop posting about retarded USA politics? It's tiring.

>>9756024
Alright, fair point. It's been a while since i've read that part and I don't remember it being that bad but it's your opinion dude.

>>9756035
>USA
You mean western civilization, right? "USA politics" has infected every country in the best, including are democratic,liberal Asian vessel states of Japan, korea, taiwan.

>>9756044
You're wrong anon, outside the US everybody already accepts that gays are beautiful and perfect, and they don't even have a right wing, all their political parties are liberal. Everybody knows this.

>>9755994
>implying the way you were raised is not the product of a specific, evolved culture
Oh my god. No wait, stop. I can't stop laughing. Are you fucking serious? Are you seriously using that argument? You fucking moron. You absolute fucking tool.

Let me break it down for you: Society, in general is built up by a few people, subjugating the majority. Oh, I'm not making a political statement. That's just the way it is. Between monarchies and the papal rule, society has been pushing and re-pushing the same bullshit agenda of a small minority for the express purpose of keeping them stupid enough that they won't revolt. Ever hear of the chimpanzees and the ladder? Look it up. If you think the societal norm is anything other than assholes going "my daddy did it right and we hated (them), so I'm gonna hate them too" then you're the same kind of dipshit asshole propogating this bullshit shitwheel. Good job.

Hey, here's a thought:
Give me one good reason, just one (1), as to why: "don't hate people you don't know" is a bad idea, and I'll admit you're right.

>>9755837
are you cunt hating on Mycroft's wild ride? You're a useless wetbag fight me LU1 1BW

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>>9756050
>Give me one good reason, just one (1), as to why: "don't hate people you don't know" is a bad idea, and I'll admit you're right.
ok
you won't like it
in fact you won't even accept it, because your mind has been subjugated by a minority whose claims you take as gospel, and you'll just give me some BS about NAXALT and brush off any follow-up arguments because you're just as brainwashed as the people you pity
but here you go

>>9756017
Ah, yes. I forgot. The magical STD preventing heterosexual forcefield. Silly me.

>>9756061
Yeah, it's called not having 500 sexual partners in your lifetime.

>>9756060
Well, I agree that's awful. Too bad that isn't argument. I know it's hard to think sometimes, but let tell you a little secret. Horrible acts cannot be applied to anyone other than those who commit them.

>>9755988
I'm also repulsed by dead bodies and the thought of having sex with them. Has nothing to do with how I was raised, it's a natural response. Now I can be conditioned to find that appealing but the vast majority naturally find corpses disgusting.

Anyone ever notice how most modern fantasy writers insist on describing every town as smelling like shit whenever the reader is introduced to it? What does the smell of shit add to the story and why can't it be done in a more original way?

>>9756069
>gays have more sex
you haven't met any gays, have you

>>9756077
>implying that was the argument
The argument was that when one group of people disproportionately commits a certain kind of crime, you're statistically less likely to see that kind of crime if you don't have that one group of people around.

>>9756080
Guess that means you can assume the town has a shitty sewerage system and suffers from overpopulation and bad infrastructure. Also the fact that it's not technologically advanced, but that's almost always obvious.

What's more likely is that the authors grew up on books that did the same thing and now they do it without thinking in their own. What would make it OK? Maybe if the town ended up getting a bad disease problem later on?

>>9756082
If we're counting anecdotal evidence now, I've literally been propositioned, it was the grossest thing in my life.

>>9756017
I don't know what infographics you've read on /pol/ that have made you feel suddenly educated, but if you care about public health then whatever flux in STIs caused by homosexual behaviour is trumped by the massive negative impact homophobia has on mental health. You know what the number one treatment for HIV was in post-Soviet Russian? Taking the patient and beating them.

Additionally, if it wasn't for research made gay bars in the Netherlands, HIV would have never have been traced back to Africa and instead the entire pandemic would have gone unchecked for years (which while dire for Afirca would have harming to the West too). You're just spurting the save thinly-veiled misinformation from the mid-80s when confusion of HIV was originally called GRIP (Grip-required-immune-problem) alongside general /pol/isms

>>9752178
I've only just finished reading Accelerado and while it was fun and if you're into cyberpunk you'll dig it, it wasn't really my cup of tea. A novel you kind of have to jog to keep up with.

>>9756020
I honestly don't have time right now. But here's an anecdotal example. Anyone with any amount of decency would not be comfortable taking a child younger than nine to a gay pride parade with the amount of debauchery that goes on. If you say you would be comfortable doing that you're lying or have issues.

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>>9756102
>if gays hadn't taken HIV to the Netherlands nobody would have figured out how HIV got to the Netherlands

>>9750987
no u

>>9756111
African migrants or people with African connections in the Netherlands, where it essentially self-propagated in the underground gay scene. You know for a few years nobody even thought HIV would be caught by straight people? Interesting stuff.
I recommend Peter Piot's No Time to Lose, not /sffg/ but really interesting look at the emergence of Ebola and HIV in Africa.

>>9756086
A certain group of people committing crimes are usually motivated by an ideology or circumstance, not their race, or sexual orientation. More than that, There's no group of people that are uniform enough to make generalizations (arguments can be made about terrorist cells etc). More than THAT, that's still not an argument towards hating people you haven't met.

>>9756100
Wooow. Some guy offered to buy you a drink at a bar. That sounds really awful.

>>9756126
But there is. Poland has almost no Muslims and almost no terror attacks. France has many Muslims and many terror attacks. What could the connection be? What could it possibly be?

And when you bring up those stats that say whypipo are the real terrorists, make sure you track down what it is they're calling "terror attacks." A Corsican separatist shooting at a post office at 3 AM isn't the same thing as what happened in the Bataclan.

>>9756028
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug

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>The voice of Mere Antoinette, the witch, was an amorous croaking. She ogled Pierre, the apothecary's young apprentice, with eyes full-orbed and unblinking as those of a toad. The folds beneath her chin swelled like the throat of some great batrachian. Her huge breasts, pale as frog-bellies, bulged from her torn gown as she leaned toward him.

>He gave no answer; and she came closer, till he saw in the hollow of those breasts a moisture glistening like the dew of marshes... like the slime of some amphibian... a moisture that seemed always to linger there.

>Her voice, raucously coaxing, persisted. "Stay awhile tonight, my pretty orphan. No one will miss you in the village. And your master will not mind." She pressed against him with shuddering folds of fat. With her short flat fingers, which gave almost the appearance of being webbed, she seized his hand and drew it to her bosom.

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>>9756028
Did someone say Blindsight?

>>9756155
Subtle. I came away from that thinking she was frog-like but I have no idea how the author did it.

>>9756140
1: correlation is not causation
2: America has the largest number of serial killers by far, so what does that say about white men between 25-45
3: that's STILL not an argument
just because you SAY it is, doesn't mean it's true. For every 1 isis sleeper, there are millions of perfectly nice, non terrorist muslims. Islam is one of the three largest religions on earth. Are you going to say you hate all of them? You can, but that's bigotry. There is no good reason to hate someone you haven't met.

>>9756126
Ideology, culture, etc isn't organic. It doesn't just happen. A cultures worldview has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is genetics. It's why over the centuries Africans couldn't progress in architecture past the mud hut and still are the lower caste in every society and country they reside in. Even their place of origin.

>>9756182
America has a lot of serial killers, a lot of them are white men, but then again a lot of Americans are white men and there's a lot of Americans, so when you're looking for who's dangerous you need to look for PROPORTIONS, not absolute numbers. And by absolute numbers...
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information%20Center/Serial%20Killer%20Statistics.pdf
...since the year 200 nearly 60% of serial killers in the US have been black. Oh my.

I'm curious, what DOES that say about white men between 25-45?

This thread becomes worse and worse.

>>9756206
That's why you never ever call someone out for politics on 4chan. You're not going to teach them their lesson.

/pol/ belongs in /pol/ you insufferable faggots
>yes I mean BOTH of you
I would contribute sff discussion, but I'm currently reading the federalist papers and haven't gotten to the ayyyylmaos yet.

>>9756206
>>9756211
Politics is married to philosophy which literature draws from or is directly about.

Trying to stop political discussions in lit is retarded since story telling inherently portrays a view on the world.

As a random Finn on the internet, wise beyond his years, put it, "this is the year of the serious discussions"
making dealings.

>>9756223
Redpill me on aliens in the Federalist Papers.

>>9756200
That. Is not. An argument.
Proportions don't matter. If it's 2/1000 or 1/10000, that's still the overwhelming majority who did nothing wrong.
There is no reason to hate someone you haven't met yet. Every post you make, you say the same thing. You're not getting it. Hating a group of people based on the actions of a small minority is not viable. That's bigotry. It doesn't matter which group you're talking about or where the group is.

>>9756233
You can keep it /lit/-related though, talk about how it relates to the work and its quality, which won't happen when you're stuck on first principles.

>>9756235
Nobody. Drives. Trucks. Into. Crowds. In. Tokyo.
That is an argument. You can bring up how unlikely it is for people to die to terrorism as opposed to anything else, but the fact is that Poland and Japan and South Korea and Hong Kong are notorious hatemongers and also don't have to have heavily-armed police keeping watch for the next Truck of Peace.

>>9756234
That's what I'm trying to find out silly :3

Who are the best tsunderes in sff?

>>9756238
that sounds more like an issue with the intelligence of /lit/ inhabitants not that discussion about politics is bad.

Malazan is for brainlets, bakker is a pseud hack, Sanderson is a Mormon weaboo, Rothfuss has asperger's, and GRRM doesn't actually talk about tax policies

And fuck these lightningtard shills

>>9756244
The computer in the last question

>>9756241
Oh my god. It's like yelling at dead cat.
I can't take this anymore. Just keep rereading my old posts until you get it, or die. I don't care.

>>9756233
Still doesn't mean all this shit should be discussed in here. People might as well keep it all outside sffg.
>>9756244
Nynaeve is quite obvious, yes?

>>9756250
I told you you wouldn't like it.

>>9756182
>what does that say about white men?
Correlation is not causation
>Islam perfectly nice. Normal among moderate Muslims to stone women to death for "adultery" child brides, sharia law, and the like. Truly the religion of peace.
>for every one nazi there were millions of perfectly nice Germans during ww2.

>>9756250
>Just keep rereading my old posts until you get it, or die.
Other guy here, perhaps you should be the one to reach across the aisle there.

You're basically doing the "you're more likely to die in a car accident" argument, which is fallacious in nature.

A terrorist attack is different in that it's fueled by an ideology that inspired such events. It has a foundational cause that can be corrected and expunged from our society.

Being struck be lightning on the other hand is a random event, there's no one behind the lightning bolt that ends your life,.. there is a being with a reason behind the truck, though.

>>9756246
How could you forget Wolfe, faggot?

>>9756235
Comparing isolated events to a movement with an army behind it is apples and oranges buddy. Look up what a jihad is

>>9756271
Arguably, deaths through car accidents are caused by the culture of driving.

>>9756271
This

>>9756279
>accidents
>same as intentional acts
Just stop you're embarrassing yourself now

>>9756279
Yes, and a culture of driving is a neccercy part of life for many places around the world. We'd have to concede that terrorist is just "part and parcel" of life for it to be compared to car culture. If you live in Idaho you need a car to get around, you don't need radicalized immigrants there though.

>>9756271
>>9756275
Look. I'm fully aware that certain subsets of people are more prone to certain violent acts- some pretty goddamn horrible shit. I'm not saying these things don't exist, or some moral relative shit like it's just their religion. I'm not like that. What I've been trying to tell anon, and what he - I don't know, lacks the faculties to understand - is that despite these things, if you condemn a group of people based on a single characteristic (religion, ethnicity, gender, orientation) that you're persecuting everybody who shares that characteristic, regardless if they've done something wrong or not. Maybe that characteristic is shared more than other characteristics, but that doesn't eliminate the innocent bystanders that suffer from that prejudice.

No matter how many muslims are terrorists, that doesn't mean that the muslim woman just trying to buy groceries deserves to have abuse yelled at her. I cannot abide by that mentality.

>>9753290
on amazon you can buy second-hand books for a few pennies, if you buy a whole load then the added postage isn't a big deal.

>>9756322
wait, you realize that the postage is pro book, right?

>>9756318
That Muslim woman may not deserve to be yelled at but neither do I deserve the extra risk of a certain demographic that is more prone to cause harm to be brought over and integrated (usually unsuccessfully just look at Sweden) into my society. They can get groceries and stay where they're at. Condemnation is necessary otherwise you have acceptance of the behavior of these groups which is unacceptable.

>>9756349
You're moving goalposts.
Look, I don't want to get into this again. I'm tired and I said my piece.
Just don't hate people you don't know. Immigration is another monster entirely, and a lot more complex.

>>9756318
I want my people safe. Muslims are a danger, in all sense. They rape, kill and harass every comunity than is weaker than themselves, or if they can get away with it. You know who are the ones harassing muslim woman than want to integrate anon? Other muslim woman. Why should we acept all that crap. We don't get anything in return, and it's hapening shit than even in times of war weren't common.
Do you know about Rotherham rapes anon? That stuff didn't happen in our civil war. Grooming little girls, druggin them, raping them.
If I could prevent that shit from hapening, I would do some nasty shit. I only want them gone to they countries, but if shit continues that way it only will get worse, much worse. And you are whining about people saying mean things to them.

>>9756362
Your problem is you don't define hate the same way we define hate. You were the one going "just admit it, you're actually a bigot."

>>9756362
>moving goalposts
You talked about a Muslim being able to buy groceries without harassment. I made the point that she shouldn't be here in the first place that's not moving goal posts.
>I'm tired
Mental gymanistucs are exhausting
>don't hate people
Some deserve hate ie communists

>>9756318
I get you, I was the same, but your argument is too much influenced by empathy, in my opinion, to a fault.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.
(A generalization for brevity sake, calm down. The numbers bare this out, too. something like more than 90% of terrorist attacks since 911, in the west, have been Islamic.)

The facts are, that wolves hide among the poor, poor immigrants, who, while non-violent, are majority economic migrants from countries that are not in turmoil. Let's not even get into the fact that we could also be accepting minority-group refugees from these countries. Syria has tons of Christian and non-Abrahamic tribal people like the yazidi. These people often get the worse of the abuse, since they're considered "Dhimmi" or "tolerated subhumans". This is to my point that we can be picking and choosing who we allow to live in our society. We have all the right to be picky. There's also the other angle that we're draining these countries of brain power, leaving them in perpetual turmoil because all the people who would have enacted change left.

. You should read some of the ISIS magazines that got thousands of people to leave their first world countries and join them.
We're facing an enemy who's adept at guerilla warfare, in their own right some of these people are propaganda and military geniuses

What was the old tibetan saying, if you lay down with rabid dogs you get bitten? Every religion that has a border with an Islamic country is bloody for a reason, and people who take these overly empathetic positions and disregard the danger because of a brown kid washed up on a beach or your Islamic friend who's really nice and would never be violent are misguided and honestly dangerous

>>9756241
Terrorism is a symptom of a solvable, or at least a mitigable, issue. The source of Islamic terrorism is traceable to oil princes, specifically SA. The clash of opposing cultures, such as trading ME Muslim culture vs Western is what you should be debating. Talking about trucks is easy because it's everywhere on TV, but culture clash is a day to day thing, which is harder to a analyze and much more impactful.

For example, if you threw millions of American poor into Japan, you would be facing very similar issues as ME refugees in Europe. Rise in crime, riots, gangs, etc. The same thing happened in America during the early 90s. Overtime, it goes away, because cultures do integrate. And that's not a meme, it's just a reality of human heuristics. Usually a dominant culture prevails and absorbs the minor one. So that's what will happen in Europe, no matter what. This is the trend for thousands of years of human migration, and will continue to happen. The benefits of such a process are harder to gauge. But the strongest human societies are the ones tempered by blood. Think medieval Europe, ancient Rome, Mongolians, even Japan for all its petty kingdoms, etc. The weakest ones are the insular and isolated cultures.

>>9756318
Another anon here. Tell me, would you say that all nazis (and facsists, for that matter) are bad people, or you wouldn't condemn everyone of them and could say like "hey, this guy hates all jews/niggers/whatnot and wants them out of his country but he's a cool guy anyways".
Sorry if I sound a little dumb, I'm kinda drunk.

>>9756385
This is really the point. Saying "not all" isn't an argument. No country is obligated to take ANYONE in, at all. A nation is entitled to its sovereignty and to maintain its people. Anyone who disagrees with this, frankly fuck off back to the pre-Westphalian world. There is no benefit to absorbing large numbers of Low-IQ people into a late-stage Capitalist society, and the only metric that I can see of whether or not a civilization endures is the social trust of its people. When you import in large numbers of foreigners that social trust collapses. You can see it happening in real time. You want to see what post-immigration 1st world looks like? Go take a look at the USA. Is that what you want? That's what you're going to get. A fucking warzone where the political dialogue gradually fractures along racial lines and everyone hates everyone else. That is the fruit of multiculturalism, not a world without borders or racial consciousness but a world where people see the only recourse they have to culture-death and extinction to be pure unadulterated tribalism and the abandonment of all principles.

Forget the romantics and the sentimental points. That muslim woman just trying to buy groceries is an emotional appeal. The tide of migrants are 80% male, and most of them aren't even from countries with wars. They aren't refugees, they want your money and your land and if you think they don't--ask them. Go listen to them talk. You're an idiot if you think that this will result in a stronger society or a better society or whatever it is you think you want. You are perpetuating problems that your children will have to deal with. You are destroying culture and history. You are not doing ANYTHING good by advocating this nonsense.

book of the new sun

>>9756403
Maybe. I want to believe terrorism is an aberration. I'm not saying we shouldn't do something about them, and frankly, speaking of ISIS, I don't know why they haven't been fucking gunned down yet. I want to believe that people should be given the doubt.

If I'm very honest, at the core of my argument is that hating people makes people feel bad and I don't want that. It sounds stupid, but it's the truth. It hurts the person who hates and it hurts the person who is hated. There's a lot of shit people have to deal with and I don't think people should make it harder for other people. I just... I don't know. I was treated like shit for being a weirdo and it felt fucking awful. I remember that feeling and I don't want other people to feel awful if they don't have to. It shouldn't matter if they're muslim or african or gay or whatever.

I know I sound like some idealistic dipshit, but goddammit, what's the better option? There are always going to be horrible, horrible shit happening- most of it by people on other people. We can't... fix that. All the social reform and laws and whatever helps a little bit, but in such small increments it's agonizing. What's the point in making it harder?

>>9756422
Look, this is more an ideology kind of thing and it's hard. The whole time I kept saying "don't hate people you don't know" but that doesn't mean you can't hate people you do know, you know? Nazi's are fuckheads, but sometimes you meet a new guy and you have a few beers and he seems like a real nice guy and then suddenly he says he really hates jews. How are you supposed to react to that? Do you leave? Do you laugh awkwardly and ignore it? You'll meet people like that. In the end, it's up to you to decide how you want to deal with that kind of thing. I don't want to be around those kind of people.

>>9756475
Thecla is great

>>9756417
>>9756417
>The source of Islamic terrorism is traceable to oil princes, specifically SA
No. I have vehemently disagree. This is just a scapegoat that has always been around. If you read any Islamic doctrine you would know that SA is just following Islam in the autistic sunni manner.

The problem is the ideology, the doctrine itself. Plain and a simple. It's a supremacist ideology. Even imam Tawhidi--the most liberal of Islamic scholar out there concedes that the Quran is not like the bible. It has not gone through any kind of reform, and in fact has mechanisms to prevent it. Islam is so easily interpreted in this extreme manner because it lends itself to be so, actually it goes out of its way to explain what things are and how they are to be interpreted.

ISIS is the real Islam. fundamentalists. It's close to the literal Islam. ISIS has addressed the lefty apologetics, too and has even laughed in their face, and said they they will be the first to go. Basically they said Islam is Islam, there is no such thing as moderate Islam, and anyone who claims there is ignorant or a liar.

Any muslim who has read their texts and claims to be a moderate are lying to the impure(which is advised in the Quran, especially when you live among them) is a legit sleeper cell.

Any Muslim who claims to be moderate and has not is ignorant, and probably just a westerner who's culturally Muslim and quietly secular and if they did read it would reject it or be a convoluted mess of mental gymnastics, concessions, and willfully ignorant like reza aslan.
>he same thing happened in America during the early 90s. Overtime, it goes away, because cultures do integrate.
This is also untrue. Hispanic immigrants had western values, and were christian.
Such a large number of terrorist being western-born aren't because of Saudis, they could read the Quran and arrive at these conclusions by themselves. Islam does not integrate. It won't happen in a million years, and if you're willing to wait and see, even thought lives are being lost unnecessarily for a pointless venture then I have to question your motives because any informed, intellectually honest person will look at history and realize Islam doesn't integrate. Look at Spain during the occupation and look at Indonesia. One had to completely rid itself of Islam and the other became completely dominated by Islam.

The only way Muslim immigration will work is if they stop being Muslim.

>>9756403
>something like more than 90% of terrorist attacks since 911, in the west, have been Islamic.
This is not including a large percentage of islamic terrorist actions that have not been classified as such (Taliban is not considered Terrorist in the US iirc)

Also, the economic migrants you describe are factually violent and have cultural policies that directly contradict western Liberal Democracy. The Cologne rapes, fires and rioting in the Calais Jungle, No-Go zones and widespread crime throughout Europe perpetrated by immigrants who have a silent political stranglehold over local police and politicians attest to this.

>>9756502
tfw no gf to eat & guide me in my head on my adventures

>>9756523
>>9756505
>Islam does not integrate. It won't happen in a million years
A valid point as well - fundamentally, Islam is built on forced or coercive conversion tactics justified by jihad and martyrdom. Though I would argue that, purely culturally, Islamic apostates can integrate into Western cultures at least as well as your average pocket culture (see Chinese dominant areas on the coast, Mexican border towns, or even Amish settlements). But this is impeded by the harsh punishments against secularists and apostates laid out in the Quran and Hadiths, which almost completely insulate the Islamic world from the dangers of domino-effect apostacy or secular reformation via degradation of religious authority.

>>9756470
>You want to see what post-immigration 1st world looks like? Go take a look at the USA.
The most dominant culture/economic powerhouse in the world? The only significant racial divide in America is white/black, which stems from its own history of slavery. Every other race has gone along very well with modern American society, including Arabs and Iranians

>>9756523
Lots of policemen have they hands tied because people like >>9756491 whines and even when they intention aren't bad, they only make thinks worse for everyone. Hell is paved with good intentions.
I'm really tired of talking about that shit here too, I want to read sci fi or fantasy because that shit is depresing me Irl, but godamn I'm mad at people defending those invaders, look at what they are doing, what right they have to go to other countries, leech and destroy the local cultures? Every day it's muslims doing some shit to some poor and weak group, be it Yazidis, Copts and other christians, pagans or whatever. They even have started atacking churches in Europe. They call them isolated cases in the press. The gall.

>>9756546
>The only significant racial divide in America is white/black, which stems from its own history of slavery
Not even just slavery - conceited attempts by the politically motivated to maintain a level of education, geographical and class distinction between these groups for the last 150 years and counting.

If America is to be taken as a template on cultural integration, it should be seen as the master plan.

>>9756523
> the economic migrants you describe are factually violent and have cultural policies that directly contradict western Liberal Democracy.
I suppose I worded that poorly, I more meant that the majority are not intellectually criminally-minded, since most just come here for economic prospects. I would say the vast majority don't come here to rap woman and beat up fags. Although when they encounter some of our cultural norms they more easily fallback into violence, because in a lot of ways it is tolerated where they are from.

The greatest mistake by the left was thinking that migrants coming here would easily adopt western values and liberal democracy. Not even culture went through an enlightenment. They aren't likely to be up to speed for a long time.

>>9756505
You realize that there are millions of multigenerational Muslims living in America, and they've all integrated well. The majority of terrorist attacks in America have nothing to do with Islam.
There isn't day to day reports of rape, murder, Arab gangs in America like there are in Europe. The reason? These people have been here for a long time and got use to it.
Shia Muslims also read the same scripture and yet not a single Shia bomb or truck in America

>>9756565
>intellectual
intentionally *

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Since this topic has already been broached, are there any fantasy books that do homo relationships tastefully? By that I mean not making the central facet of the protagonists character his sexuality, or pushing progressive ideology.

>>9756565
I won't speak to any specific demographical statistic, but let me put it like this:
A spider does not go to a new corner of the garden to kill things. It moves only to satisfy its immediate survival needs, or to improve its position in terms of competition. When that infrastructure is provided - namely, the web - the natural function of the spider is to then kill.
Islamic ideologues are the same way - they did not come to a new country because of a need to violently assert their ideology, but because they wanted better, safer and more profitable infrastructure. Now that this has been provided for them they will naturally carry out their instinctive function, which is to violently assert their ideology. So I'm not much worried about their intention, I'm worried about the effect of their presence.

This is not including open-faced terrorists, of course. The ideological motivation behind that course of action is beyond animal simplification.

>>9756580
this: >>9752241
and The God Eaters by Jesse Hajikek. you can get his book free from his website.

>>9756580
Harry Potter. It was so not in your face that nobody noticed until the author told them years later.

>>9756491
>it's hard
Yeah, exactly, that's my point. Look, I, for one, don't hate gays (that was the initial topic, right?), but I hate when some ass-fucker starts to whine about his hard life and that he should be granted more freedom to parade his orientation as much as he'd like and all that. Basically, I hate assholes, and the fact is that most of nowadays homosexuals (and feminists, for that matter) are just that.
Gosh, I sound retarded. Guess I'll just go and get drunk some more.

>>9756570
>You realize that there are millions of multigenerational Muslims living in America, and they've all integrated well
A: define 'well integrated' and give me some numbers, and
B: its already understood that these people are secularists and apostates that would be slaughtered outright by Islamists of the immigrant variety if they thought they could get away with it - that, or they are secretly fundamentalists who are playing the sleeper game.
This would seem like a great No True Scotsman fallacy were it not for the fact that both Islamic fundamentalist laymen and their authority figures have already said as much themselves.

>>9756505

>ISIS is real Islam

No it isn't. They almost entirely disregard the entire body of Islamic scholarship that has developed in the last 1400 years. They are, in effect, the equivalent to Puritans in Christianity. They are not Orthodox by any means, and reject the 4 traditional schools of thought - Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi and Hanbali - that the vast majority of Muslims adhere to.

Orthodox Islamist extremists, such as the Afghan Taliban, see ISIS as heretical, disagree with their expansionist ideology, and fight against them.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35123748

ISIS is a proxy group used by the US and Israel to destabilize and eventually Balkanize the Middle East as part of a long-term geopolitical strategy that was developed in the 1990's.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/357734-iran-threat-isis-israel/

>>9756591
You didn't even notice that one of the main characters was black.

>>9756570
If they were integrated, they wouldn't be Muslims.

>>9756023
This is true sadly. Was gonna read Anthony Ryan till I saw that he followed fucking Brianna wu.
Heard his trilogy went to shit after the first book anyways

>>9756604
>They almost entirely disregard the entire body of Islamic scholarship that has developed in the last 1400 years
So texts written hundreds of years after the Quran and Hadiths are somehow MORE Islam than the Quran and Hadiths?

>>9756570
Shia Muslims do not commit these crimes on anywhere near the same level because they are basically apostates. If you were going purely by the original holy texts, Shia would appear heretical. This is partially why there is such an extreme fight over the dynasty of the Caliphs to this day, its the Shia's only solid claim to religious authority. Compare that to Christian Papism and Protestancy and you'll see nowhere near the same level of conflict in the modern age, because both sects derive their authority from completely separate co-heretical versions of the ideology (as well as both being largely secularized)

>>9756635
>So texts written hundreds of years after the Quran and Hadiths are somehow MORE Islam than the Quran
Isn't Bible 2.0 more christian than the original? That's not much of a rebuttal.

>>9756640
If you mean The New Testament, that's a separated, ideologically unique text that is supplemental but not religiously contiguous to the Old Testament. The NT also does not claim to have direct Divine Inspiration. Christians aren't more Jewish than Jews, outside of Catholic ideological revisionism - you seem to be claiming that "liberalized" Muslims with more modern teachings are somehow more Islamic than fundamentalists, which doesn't add up on its own merits and is also openly contradicted by the Quran itself which claims to be the direct word of Allah through his perfect prophet Mohammed.

>>9756653
I'm not that guy. I was just asking.

>>9756635

>So texts written hundreds of years after the Quran and Hadiths are somehow MORE Islam than the Quran and Hadiths?

They represent the consensus of generations of expert scholars who dedicated their entire lives to studying and interpreting the primary and secondary texts. It's not as simple as letting any idiot decide what it means. This is why there are multiple denominations of Christianity - there are many ways to read the Bible. Saying this body of scholarship is useless because we can just interpret for ourselves is like saying the entire body of scientific research done to date is useless because anyone can examine and interpret the material world around them with the scientific method. Why do we value what previous scientists have said? Because they were experts in their respective fields.

The Salafism of ISIS is a relatively recent phenomena that is restricted to a negligible minority, so why should it be regarded as more definitive than the traditional schools? Simply because they claim it is authentic? Good job ignoring the rest of my post.

>>9756659
Well to further clarify my response - Christianity and Judaism are separated religions. In orthodoxy, the Jews would call Christians blasphemers and heretics worshipping a false messiah, while the Christians (or, specifically Catholics; Christianity has never had a clean orthodoxy) would say that anyone who does not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ is condemned to Hell. Only by a very modern, liberalized and non-denominational reading do the two actually achieve the same goal.

Islam, on the other hand, not only doesn't have the same development of progressively more liberalized and cohabitation-oriented reformations (that anon is talking out his ass) but in fact is built around a harsh system of penalties to prevent such heretical, apostatized teachings. By the Islamic view of things, the majority of Muslims of the same "correct" sect are going to go to Hell anyways.

>>9756665
>They represent the consensus of generations of expert scholars who dedicated their entire lives to studying and interpreting the primary and secondary texts. It's not as simple as letting any idiot decide what it means.
Except, again, Mohammed already presented the literal words of Allah and was upheld as perfect and Allah's true prophet. It takes absolutely one mention of this to undermine any reformation of the ideology, unless you claim one of these scholars was themselves speaking the word of God which would be heresy. The second you accept Islamic faith, you are accepting fundamental Islam. Anything else is lipservice, which is equivalent to apostacy and will end up with you getting dragged up against the Mosque and beheaded if/when the fundamentalists roll into your town. This is one of the crucial problems with Islamic cultural integration - it takes all of ten seconds to de-liberalize, or as some would say "Radicalize" a Muslim, if they are truly religious, and they often do so themselves.

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>oh lots of post since this afternoon, im sure the discussion has been as productive and on topic as-
>this

can we take it anywhere else, ideally just /pol/ or elsewhere on /lit/
you're distracting away from my busy schedule of shilling

>>9756695

>literal word of Allah

Which literally says this isn't the case:

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical." - Quran 3:7

>fundamental Islam

You view fundamentalism as a homogenous block with the same views, and this is simply not the case. As I've already pointed out, the Afghan Taliban are also fundamentalists, but because they adhere to the Hanafi school, they reject the global offensive Jihad of ISIS, among other things. There are fundamentalist Salafis, fundamentalist Hanafis and fundamentalist Malikis, and they all have different interpretations. There are also moderates within those schools of thought, and I'm not saying that the majority aren't fundamentalists, just that those fundamentalists don't all share the same beliefs. Just as there were both fundamentalist Catholics and fundamentalist Protestants.

Accepting Salafism as the definitive Islam at face value is like accepting Protestantism as the definitive Christianity at face value.

>>9756736
>You view fundamentalism as a homogenous block with the same views
Not at all, only that the fundamentalist can be fed a diet of justifications for religious crimes straight out of the Quran and Hadiths and there's not much that can be used to argue against such teachings. Of course there are fundamentalists with different interpretations - I have never claimed all fundamentalists to be martyrs or that they engage in jihad. I have only pointed out the simplicity of justifying abd teaching such actions in a fundamentalist reading.

As far as the quote on allegory, that both doesn't contradict that the Quran itself claims to be a product of Divine Inspiration by Mohammed, and is also openly worded to allow for controlled revisionism presumably by Mohammed himself. It does not lend credence to any later teachings, and does still allow for a fundamentalist view to undermine any added liberal teachings.

>>9756787

>I have never claimed all fundamentalists to be martyrs or that they engage in jihad. I have only pointed out the simplicity of justifying abd teaching such actions in a fundamentalist reading.

You were claiming that ISIS represent "real Islam". Why ISIS and not the Afghan Taliban?

What makes ISIS more qualified to interpret the Quran than Imam Hanafi? Both are fundamentalist. Both directly interpret the Quran and hadith. Why is the Salafism of ISIS more authentic than the Hanafism of the Taliban?

>its a /pol/ makes half the posts in a thread episode

>>9756823
>You were claiming that ISIS represent "real Islam"
Other poster, not me and not my claim

>>9756598
A: True, it is difficult to define "well integrated", but there are several arguments I can offer to attempt to substantiate it, but ultimately it's not objective.

Americans tend to have an average view of muslims: http://www.pewforum.org/2017/02/15/americans-express-increasingly-warm-feelings-toward-religious-groups/
I don't believe anyone has performed any study of crime correlated with religion in america, but this is for race:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-43
It's difficult to qualify what arabs/urdu/farsi people tick off as ethnicity, but it's likely white or asian, and neither provide a significant outlier of crime in accordance to their proportional population in the US
If none of this is enough, then it is possible to say that there is insufficient evidence to support the claim that muslims are predisposed to crime in the US. This much is true
B) I can agree that most muslims in America would be considered apostates in corresponding ME countries, such as SA, UAE, Yemen, etc, and most definitely by any islamist extremist group. But that is meaningless to my point. My point is that Muslims can integrate. In fact, anyone can integrate. Further, they MUST integrate, otherwise they sacrifice survival. This is a basic human fact. When you're a minority ingroup living alongside a massive majority ingroup, and you want to exist in the society dominated by such group, then you have to appease the majority ingroup. Whether it's by deception or by adjusting moral systems, this heuristic is simply human behavior. All immigrants do this by the sacrifice of their presuppositions. Chinese expatriats discard their party loyalty, Japanese immigrants discard their xenophobia, Indians learn English from a young age. And yet all of these people keep portions of their parent culture intact. Muslims in america have done the same. Many have become pro homosexuality. Most have discarded Sharia Law. They certainly don't practice stoning, or hanging, or beheadings in America. And yet they still practice Ramadan, and eat pork. Humans are the most adaptable creature on this planet, and that supercedes any religion, ideology, or moral system. We can go to great lengths to perpetuate individual survival.

What are some fantasy series that just keep getting better and better?

>>9756876
My diary desu

>>9756876
The Quran apparently.

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>West deserved his fate because _________

inb4 slapping his sister

>>9756904
Because he didn't slap hard enough.

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>men can't write good female char-

>>9756904
it was his duty, just like Kroy

>>9756727
I like keats, will I like those two books?

>>9756945
Low energy bait. Sad!

>>9756967
Piss off. I gave it my best and that's all that matters in the end.

>>9756961
It's less an homage to Keats and more of a diarrhea of Keats

>>9756970
>responding to a Trump meme
Moron.

>>9755926
So your argument devolves into name-calling? You must be just fashionably liberal enough to not have to talk to anyone. Good for you for striking a balance!

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how shit is this going to be?

>>9757142
My rabbi says it's unreadable.

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>Literally 149 books to read before June 2018
Help.

>>9757142
It's good unless you're literally retarded.

>>9757158
That's just 2 books a week. Get cracking.

I want a fantasy novel that is super weird. Think like the game Morrowind, just lots of weird stuff. The twist is I want hella descriptions. I want to know exactly what the fuck that giant phallic tree is made of. I have already read Malazan. pls respons

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>>9757176
I kind of lied. About 50 of them are comics. Which means its really only 99, which is alot more reasonable. (22-30 page comics can be read in literally 10 minutes.)

>>9757179
fourth mansions

>>9756580
Steel Remains.

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>>9757179
There's a whole subgenre called New Weird that's pretty much this

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This book is a masterpiece. I won't call it the greatest book ever written because that's all very subjective but this is the book that I've thought the most about after I finished it. Its been a few months since I finished it and I still can't get it out of my head, it's still fun to just sit about it. It's very philosophical and dense with a lot of symbolism while still being easy to read.

>>9757179
why has no one suggested HP Lovecraft yet? He's the king of this, and his description of things are exactly what you're looking for, although he get a bit repetitive with the language sometimes.

Found a new favourite goodreads complaint whilst looking to see if kindle is capable of recommending me anything readable

> Nope, prologue is a lie - it's not even about that character.[and they die before we get to know them any further (hide spoiler)]. Clue number one about the rest of the book.

That's literally what a prologue is

>>9757463
problem with the amazon/reading lists recs is that they rec a load of self-published which is almost always bad

>see interesting fantasy book
>specifically labelled as book one
>get it and read it
>it's a new story but set in an existing setting from the author's previous work with the same characters and constantly relies on the events of the older series as a foundation

Okay obviously I'm dumb for not doing the research but isn't it misleading to call this book one when it has so much baggage? It also spoils the previous series too.

>>9755782
Not someone. Didn't you read? Can't you comprehend? Everyone in the novel gonna be faggots. If it was one character I wouldn't give a fuck. There were at least 3 faggots in the red rising trilogy, the story didn't suffer from it.

>>9757547
Are you just realising that the books are shit? The first book is a YA hunger games retarded setup and the author massacred all the interesting characters until the only villain was a millennial edgelord.

Gay characters has no impact upon the quality of the books.

>>9757567
*have

>>9755180
Who wrote this?

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>>9757418
Maybe HPL wasn't mentioned because he isn't really a novelist.. He's a short story writer who dabbled with novels, and only one of them, At The Mountains Of Madness, was any good. I agree he's a great descriptive writer, not only of his monsters (the jarring, fragmentary, and contrasting images of them) but of atmospheric scenery. The opening two pages of The Dunwich Horror are downright cinematic.

>>9757403
I enjoyed Canticle a lot, but the third part felt like it dragged a bit. The previous two parts have likeable characters and interesting situations, which I felt the third part lacked. It was also a jarring shift towards being more sci-fi. BTW, Walter Miller also wrote a nice little post-apoc novella, Dark Benediction, along similar lines, but different enough to be interesting.

>>9757591
Swanwick.

>>9756318
I legit despise muslims and their apologists. I hope you die of infected anal fissures even if you're only joking.

>>9757191
based

>>9757673
I N S H A L L A H

>>9757673
leave nigga please
lemme talk about space battles & gender fluidity

>>9756417

I don't like being an asshole but I think you're being extremely naive on this issue. The problem with Islam is their conception of God and their theology. In contrast to the Judeo-Christian tradition where the creator is rational and can't violate His own nature, Muslims believe that God (and by extension the universe) is inconsistent and unpredictable. That the only way to know truth is through revelation. The consequence of these beliefs is a rejection of reason and science and philosophy. It wasn't always like this of course, but the Asharites won and now it's a heresy to even question whether the Koran exists co-eternally with God.

With this in mind I'll you'll start to understand why Muslims act the way they do. Because the universe isn't consistent and is totally depended on God's will which he can change at any time there's really no point in doing science or planning for the future or anything. God sustains us every second of the day and with a completely arbitrary thought we can go out of existence. If you've ever seen videos taken by ISIS while they're in a gunfight you might notice that they like to randomly shoot a lot, like they don't put a lot of thought into it. This is because whether or not the bullet hits somebody is completely depended on God's will. If God wants the bullets to hit somebody then he'll change the laws of physics to make it happen.

There is no peaceful fix to this. The Mu'tazilites are gone and with it went any possibility of a rational Islam. Muslims will always fight because their sole source of knowledge tells them that it's what they must do.

Reposting because I only proofread after I post something

File: sigurd02-web.png (842KB, 648x903px) Image search: [Google]

842KB, 648x903px

So, City of Stairs by Robert Jackson Bennett was a pretty fun read. A fast-paced mystery through a pretty unique and interesting world, with a really nice way to handle Gods. It was a fun romp, with actually likable characters -- Sigrud was actually a viking daddy, and not just some guy they hired with money. [spoilers]The final fight with Kolkan/Jukov was genuinely amazing and made me think of an SMT fight. And the twisted together Gods thing was pretty fucking metal.[/spoilers]

Nothing felt like it was pulled out of its ass. It makes the book feel like a believable, consistent, and tightly written novel that showed the discipline of the writer who never went on tangents and only wrote about what was important in the current situation.

Admittedly, the third-person present tense threw me off a bit at the beginning, but I quickly got used to it. It's a pretty cool tense now, actually.

Anyway, I'm definitely picking up the rest of the Divine Cities Trilogy, but that was a nice, short cleanser from big books.

I might dive into a sci-fi book. I've got Quantum Thief, Dune, or The Book of the New Sun. Which one should I go first?

>>9757696
You're ok with any of those three.

ctrl-s text to spoiler it

>>9756123
>>9756102
>HIV would have never have been traced back to Africa and instead the entire pandemic would have gone unchecked for years (
Aids and ebola are both patented diseases. America made aids to kill fags and tested it in Africa. If you don't know history stfu. The lasr ebola scare was a company testing it's new strain and the vaccine (which only works for whites).
Now that fags are in some of the most powerful places in Americlap government, they are looking to wipe out blacks instead.

Also NOT LIT / SFFG

>>9757739
>nine hours later

>>9757744
Read started reading the thread 2 hours ago, just finished.

>>9757179
The worm ouroborous. Hope you like reading exactly what kind of animal is carved into every individual tile.

>>9750631
NEW THREAD

>>9757955
>>9757955
>>9757955
>>9757955
>>9757955

>>9757692
You're arguing about an ideology, and I'm arguing that humans can break any ideology. You're saying it's impossible because their ideology says it's impossible. I'm saying it's possible because of behavioral science and studies of groups of humans

>>9751053
We have a theory that the movie K.Dick mentions is not the 1974 Bowie movie, but the 1998 Haynes movie Velvet Goldmine which is about David Bowie.
Although the timeline doesn't seem to fit, the description in Valis is on point and indicates he speaks of Velvet Goldmine.