Is Allen Ginsberg the single worst "poet" of all time?
He was just a mentally underdeveloped pervert who wrote dirty shit that made hippies giggle.
>And then, like,
>We took out our cocks
>And he fucked me in the ass
He could have been a great(er) poet. He was really well read and I've seen some of the lectures he's given, dude knew his stuff. His poetry gives the opposite impression. Sunflower Sutra is decent though.
>You're against Love?
Those beats were really "progressive-thinking" guys but they weren't really brilliant.
Burroughs, for instance, killed his wife in that absurd accident and his son drank himself to death because he couldn't handle all the ghosts in his head his dad gave him.
from: Cosmopolitan Greetings: Poems, 1986-1992
I hope my good old asshole holds out
60 years it's been mostly OK
Tho in Bolivia a fissure operation
survived the altiplano hospital--
a little blood, no polyps, occasionally
a small hemorrhoid
active, eager, receptive to phallus
coke bottle, candle, carrot
banana & fingers--
Now AIDS makes it shy, but still
eager to serve--
out with the dumps, in with the condom'd
still rubbery muscular,
unashamed wide open for joy
But another 20 years who knows,
old folks got troubles everywhere--
necks, prostates, stomachs, joints--
Hope the old hole stays young
till death, relax
He ain't in any of my modern poetry anthologies. Just ignore him. When some gray and lumpy, honorary Burroughs representative/wannabe shows up at your next artsy gathering, maintain a blank expression, nod if you must but do your best to ignore him. Squint a little when you make eye contact, it'll show you're reading right through his sappy schtick.
Holy crap I meant lump, honorary Ginsberg-type, not Burroughs. I'm sick of showing up at NYC lit and art events and the fucking Ginsberg look-a-likes start milling around with that shitty fucking grin and hair.
He's actually a very good poet, one of the few who skilfully used the modernist style. Too bad he was also a complete degenerate and only employed his poetry to say degeneracy is the solution to being disillusioned by degeneracy.
>triple five triple six combo
>two dubs posts before
>one dubs after
>dem 22's before and after
this is like planets parade or something.
I really feel that burroughs was the only one who could write above the level and have more interesting ideas then the average 11th grade bicurious male and I'll always appreciate how he shit on kerouac for publishing a mediocre book of neal cassady's escapades and collecting fame
Have to agree that Burroughs has way more actual substance than Kerouac or Ginsberg. Just as degenerate, but he had some very deep thoughts and his writing had a very cynical attitude toward degeneracy, it didn't promote it at all.
Burroughs seems to feel amazed and slightly guilty/disgusted that he's getting away with it all while Ginsberg has this vibe of "why oh why can't i fuck 12 year olds and not get in trouble????"
Also burroughs really stirred some interesting literary experiments (cut up technique, random structure of NL) when he wasn't shooting up every 2 hours
Fuckin' bullshit that fuckin' pederast titled his shit HOWL, because that's a kickass fucking name and word to title shit and now I can't use it because I don't want to be associated with that fuckin' weird pedo.
>After a long stay with his grandparents, Billy went to live with his father in Morocco, who introduced him to pot at thirteen and failed to protect him from multiple rape attempts.
Let's take time to remind ourselves thought that:
- Burroughs wrote the exact same story over and over again and didn't do much beyond that. He fell into largely the same trap as the other beats as barely rising above solipsistic dribble mots of the time.
- He was a colossal fuck up as a person: mummy and daddy fund his travels and drug use, shit father, completely out of touch with reality (there's an anecdote that his friend visited him and Burroughs didn't know who the President was).
My hate for the beats isn't that they wrote shitty poetry and literature but that all their stories are romanticised roman-a-clefs about themselves and their wacky adventures and that people look to their personal lives for guidance in their own.
Burroughs was garbage. There is no argument. The only Beat you could argue was anything but garbage is probably Kerouac. I've even heard someone argue that Kerouac was the ONLY Beat. That it all begins and ends with him. As it should.
He wrote about the same lifestyle, but the idea that it was "the same story" is dead wrong. He bleeds from story to story, a man being operated on by an insane doctor, to someone having to admit to having homosexual thoughts to prove they aren't gay.
Yes, he was a dreadful fuck up, and a complete degenerate and altogether wretched human being. Which is why he is very good at writing about it. He does not remotely romanticize it.
>The only Beat you could argue was anything but garbage is probably Kerouac.
I read all the beats a while back and now that I've read a lot, looking back I'll agree entirely with you. Kerouac (other than OtR) was a relatively varied writer, even if be couldn't write worth a damn. Even though it's maulin and poorly written, look at Visions of Gerard for an example of the only Beat capable of writing a human story.
Pubeface Pedowitz is a degenerate of the lowest order and a blot on the tapestry of Western Civilization, yet the mewling spawn of suburbia are taught to grovel before him by their decaying boomer sires
I didn't simplify it. It would be pretty difficult to simply given that your defence of this dirty paedophile and his stablemates was that 'it's bretty good and it got a lot of people hyped.'
In fact I did the exact opposite of simplifying it by actually identifying which dirty unwashed hippies it 'hyped'.
beat isn't meant to be revered, i think it's meant to be shameful. It's self deprecating, the grime of poetry. i don't know anybody who tried to mimic a beat poet, probably because it's better to read the genre as cautionary
Controversial opinion incoming:
The second-generation beats (Bukowski, Hunter Thompson, Lester Bangs) were better than the original beats.
Not that I'm apologising for the beats, who I have no real affection for, snatches of Howl and Kerouac are passable.
He didn't get raped. I read his auto biography and he mentioned that some of his dad's homosexual friends hit on him and made advances while he was in Morocco but never was he forcefully sexed up the butt.
>how he shit on kerouac for publishing a mediocre book of neal cassady's escapades and collecting fame
lol you have no idea what you are talking about.
please don't embarrass yourself in public talking this shit.
Bukowski sucks, I actually kinda like Kerouac's prose at times, other times it is complete shit, Ginsberg sucks the vast majority of the time, Burroughs is pretty good but isn't really a beat, more postmodern. Thompson is entertaining but the caricature of him as "le drug man XD " is annoying. The beats < Henry Miller
Anal fissures are nothing to take lightly, that shit can lead to fistulas which can fuck you up real bad, I'm talking abscesses the size of golfballs and shit. There's nothing poetic about having an abscess drain connected to a catheter that's drilled through your asscheek. It drains into a big old back of colon pus and they rarely heal entirely.
TL;DR: Buttsex? More like buttfucked.
That being said, think of Ginsberg this way: SOMEONE had to be the guy that bridges the gap between pop culture innocence and everyone knowing just how elastic the human anus is.
that person might also have had