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Question for cis guys and girls, do you ever...
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Question for cis guys and girls, do you ever get annoyed when trans people have misconceptions about what living as the opposite gender is like?
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>>5675379
sure, but I'm just going to get shouted down, because this site is packed with MtFs. Seems kind of impossible to "feel like a girl" when you've never been one.

>inb4 muh scientifik studiez
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>>5675702
it isn't when you have a fetish that makes you think you're a girl
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>>5675702
I'm MtF and I'm curious about what you have to say, I won't shoot you down because I know I have some ideas about how girls think that likely aren't true. Can you give some more specific examples?
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>>5675714
>I have some ideas about how girls think

Well, for one, I don't think there is one given way that girls think. I don't think biology determines your thought patterns and I think there are greater variations within the genders than between the genders.
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>>5675737
What are some things mtfs have said about being a girl that you disagree with?
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>>5675737
Cis girl and this.
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>>5675745
This is a loaded question, and because the answer will be "cis girls think this too", it should just further prove how laughable gender is as a whole, because you can say that "cis men do think this way too".
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>>5675379
Transmen are the only men who can't have their masculinity called into question. They typically have no idea what being a man means in the slightest. Honestly I don't think you can really say you are a gender if you haven't experienced that gender throughout your whole life.
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>>5675773
I don't get it. What's your point? Are you basically saying that to be a girl you can't still think the same way you thought before? Because you can't pinpoint how girls think?
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>>5675702
I feel like most trans people don't actually "feel line the opposite gender" but instead just don't identify with their assigned gender. Like if you're born make but feel uncomfortable being male or having a male body it makes sense to assume you'd be more comfortable being female
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I get more bothered when trans people in the SJW community try and tell me how I'm supposed to feel based on them being the same 'gender'. But that sort of falls in line with the cis of my gender who do it as well. Honestly, I'm not going to care if some idiot thinks there's a different way the genders think other than the obviously biological. Not all women like pink, not all men like cars, ect. But if a transman wants to dress in all pink to feel 'girly' as shit, have at it.
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>>5675737
Cisgay here, and this may sound pretty "tumblrish", but fuck it. I sometimes wonder the same thing. It always seems like theres more mtfs out there and I wonder if it's a response to society having stricter ideas on what it means to be a man vs a woman. Guys are often said to have stricter norms that when broken calls their masculinity into question. So perhaps some men that reguarly have a mindset that goes against those norms determine that it must be because they are a woman inside. I haven't fully come to am opinion on this and I don't use it as a way to somehow shit on transwomen, but it feels like something to consider.
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>>5675702
mtf and i always felt like shit when people referred to me as guy and I was expected to do guy things. i hated how i looked and everything. it felt wrong and got worse as a got older. transitioning helped all this and alleviated crippling depression. ive always assumed this is what people mean when they say they "feel" like a female and not a male. i wish i felt like a female at that point in my life in the way youre interpreting that statement. i think that I "feel" like a female now, years after transitioning.
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>>5675815
What does being a man mean to you? To me it was always about making sacrifices, whether it's for your family or country. I'm not a transman though so I don't know if they feel the same.
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>>5675862
It's an endless number of experiences, views, and expectations that accumulate throughout your lifetime. Any definition will be hopelessly narrow and typically involve a lot of platitudes.
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>>5675857
Not to shoot you down but a lot of girls like doing "guy things" so I don't think disliking them is how most females feel. The dysphoria thing makes sense though.
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>>5675815
I'm ftm but I know I'll never truly be able to be a man. I really am just a girl who looks like a dude deep down. I wish I was born male but I wasn't and nothing will ever change that.
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I just don't want to look like a man, and yes there is a look like a man. the stereotype of a woman has no bearing on my own personality
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>>5675871
semantics. i listed those things to illustrate how one might be inclined to not feel male and say they feel like a female.
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>>5675879
>that entire post

also how do mtf/ftms know they will be happier as the other gender genuine question
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>>5675745
>>5675832
that's not me >>5675773

The most popular one would be Caitlyn Jenner talking about makeup being the hardest part of being a woman. None of the women in my family even wears makeup. I get that she's a controversial figure even within the trans community, though, so I've quoted some from the trans help thread:

>>5667878
> I know that when I dress up at home, put on mascara, or even just delicately apply lip balm, it makes me happy

>>5660539
> I've always related better to women and imagined myself as one of them. I love the idea of having female features.
> My dong has always felt strange, like something that never gave me any emotional pleasure, just physical pleasure.
> I've always like the idea of being penetrated.

>>5667539
> I let my hair grow out, because I like it better that way. I let my nails grow out because I always thought nail polish was cool and I want to try it. I painted my nails. It was cute (by my standards). I kept a journal of mostly run on sentences and posts I copied from off here.

There are plenty of women who don't wear dresses, don't wear make up, don't have long hair, don't enjoy being penetrated, don't gain emotional pleasure from having a vagina, aren't in love with their own feminine features and use proper punctuation. I don't see why any of those things should be the defining feature of a woman.

The real question is, what is a woman? As far as I'm concerned, it's just a female human. Woman is to human as mare is to horse or sow is to pig.
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>>5675901
Essentially I imagined my possible future as a woman and as a man. I realized that I couldn't even come up with a future where I would be happy for one of those.
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>>5675901
Well, when I went through puberty I hated the shape of my body and I didn't want it to look like that. Then I took hormones and got surgery. Now it looks like I wanted it to, and I'm happy.
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>>5675901
>I disagree so le reaction image face :^)
cherry pick all you want but the OP was about misconceptions of the opposite gender
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>>5675923
i dont disagree dummy miss swan is a character that says "he looks like a man" frequently
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>>5675936
m-my bad
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>>5675855
>It always seems like theres more mtfs out there
Is there really? I've always thought it was a byproduct of being on 4chan, which is a predominantly male site.

>tumblrish
Might as well go full tumblr:

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the idea of society having stricter ideas on what it means to be a man vs woman. On one hand, you are right, women can wear pants and it's fine. Parents name their girls Tyler, Ashley (used to be a male name) and it's cool, but you rarely see unisex names going the other way around (boy named Sue was not cool). I think it says something about the way society perceives (and demeans) femininity when masculinity is usually seen as an upgrade.

At the same time, I think sometimes, femininity has stricter rules than masculinity. Dress codes, for one. "Proper" feminine presentation is much stricter and time consuming than proper masculine presentation. Women's sex lives are policed in a way men's aren't. You rarely see male slut shaming, for example. Side note: while lesbian sex is often seen as acceptable, I think this stems from the idea of women as lesser, hence it's not "real sex".
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>>5675939
dont worry about it im sure 9/10 times you see the words genuine question it isnt an actual genuine question
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>>5675737
Yeah cis girl here I agree with this. A lot of mtfs here seem to think there's one way a woman feels. It's hilariously wrong.

I can get if you have dysphoria or whatever but that whole "Omg I have a womans brain in a male body because of the way I move my hands and sit cross legged and like make up" is pretty retarded.

And then how a lot seem to glamorize being hit on in the street like it's the ultimate approval of womanhood because some crackhead whistled at you.
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>>5676861
Again, have you read the threads some of these people make? Have you heard of the porn they watch? It's a fetish.
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>>5675737
>I don't think biology determines your thought patterns
Well you're very wrong. Biology is a major factor if not the determining factor no matter how you look at it.
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i'm trans, but i don't have any ideas about what it is to be cis, because i don't know what that's like

at the end of the day it's about dysphoria, and relieving it not trying to be cis or ideas about what life is like as the other gender
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>>5675379

No because I stay the hell away from trans people in real life.
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>>5675940
You spoke some good stuff, m8, but I'm gonna have to knock off some points for the male slut shaming. You can't have female sexual liberty and not male as well. Everyone gets to be sexually loose and open or no one does.
While slut shaming does predominantly affect women, there are men now that are getting shamed by other men(and women) for fucking around a lot. It appears to be a split between people of what is appropriate in a modern society: sexual freedom vs only sex with a close partner.
I wanna note though that I feel the higher level of state authority over women's sex lives comes back to their primary roles throughout history of being the ones who raise the next generation of the nation. You don't want your nation's children to have slutty moms that would rather be advancing their own interests over raising children.
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>>5675379
>Question for cis guys and girls, do you ever get annoyed when trans people have misconceptions about what living as the opposite gender is like?
No. I've known effeminate cis men and hyper masculine bro cis men.
Can't really have a "misconception" of a vague innocuous concept when just about every cis guy has a different version what being a man is to him and his.

To be perfectly honest gender seems really unimportant to me. And if someone comes out as FtM to ease dysphoria, then I have no annoyance (let alone fucks to give) about their perception of what it means to be a man.
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>>5675379
Yes, but I'm far more annoyed when my fellow cis men spout misconceptions about how men are supposed to act. They're the ones who should fucking know better. There's no one right way to be a man.
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>>5675379
I get annoyed at the term cis, because it's an added bullshit word for the 99% of people who don't have GID. Shouldn't the abnormal population be the only one with an added prefix? And yes, it is impossible to know what the opposite gender is living like.

[spoiler]and I have GID[/spoiler]
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>>5676966
>Biology is a major factor if not the determining factor no matter how you look at it
NO it's your essential sexual spirit that is set from birth you delusional tranny!!!!
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>>5675379
Not at all. I want to know about their lives as much as they want to know about mine. I love talking to people with a different perspective.
broadens mine
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yeah pretty much

mtfs try to act like uber feminine porn stars
and ftms try to act like pseudo macho fuccbois
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I don't give a fuck about gender/gender roles I just always felt like I should have been born the opposite sex. Everything testosterone did to me felt foreign and gross but now that I'm on E the physical changes make me feel calm and I just feel better.
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>>5675940
off the internet MTFs (generally) outnumber FTMs roughly 2:1
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>>5675737
The structure of your brain does have influence on your thoughts, likes and dislikes. During fetal development it was coded with a set of primal drives to do various actions. Some are gender specific, others aren't. Some that are in both genders are stronger in one gender than the other gender. Because of the imprecise nature of the fetal development process, a person can be built with the primal drive set of the opposite sex from their body.

For me, when I finally decide I want to have sex with somebody, my brain tells me to lay on my back and spread my legs so I can be fucked. I have no urge to mount or thrust. My first gf had to teach me how to thrust. Yeah, I went into my sexual experience rather green, never having even seen any porn. I have no built in clue how to pursue a lady, but on the other hand I can very easily judge the suitability of guys that are vying for my interest.
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>>5680698
im a male to femboy trans and I must admit
I fucking cringed reading your post
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>>5675379
>>5675702
I find it quite irritating when MtFs talk about how they're lucky not to get periods. If you really wanted to be a woman, you'd want that too.
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>>5680774
>If you really wanted to be a woman, you'd want that too.

What fucking cis woman likes having periods? You realize there are a ton of cis women who take birth control for the sole purpose of stopping them right?
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>Question for cis guys and girls, do you ever get annoyed when trans people have misconceptions about what living as the opposite gender is like?

Only when they double down on their ignorance by making spurrious accusations of sexisim or transmisgoginy.

Otherwise, I give no fucks. People should do more or less what they want. People get to be ignorant, make mistakes, have unrealistic expectations of themselves and society.

It's ok to be a girly dude. It's ok to be a manly woman.

If some transfag wants to do some bizzare gendered shit badly just because it's what they think they should do now that they're this new gender, then so what? They might like it, they might get better at it, they might give it up.
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>>5675871
>a lot of girls like doing "guy things"

I'd like to point out that there's a difference between liking/not liking "guy things" and being pressured to do them and shamed if you don't or are bad at them.

Playing sports made me feel like shit because all the other kids made me feel bad about being bad at them, and my parents wouldn't let me quit and made me feel bad about wanting to do so, etc.

It especially sucks if you're dealing with trans stuff as a kid and everyone ties this shit into an idea of masculinity and shames you, telling you that it's what boys are supposed to do or how they're supposed to act and you're a boy so you should feel bad if you don't feel that way. Around middle school homophobia gets mixed into that too and people start calling you a faggot and stuff.
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>>5680803
I like my periods.
I don't really care that much what they think desu, it's just jarring that MtFs sometimes show off about their ladyness whilst dismissing and even mocking the aspects of womanhood that they don't have.
Also, the birth control thing doesn't work for a large fraction of women.
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>>5681010
>I like my periods.

lol what, you're in a very small minority if true

>Also, the birth control thing doesn't work for a large fraction of women.

They still try because periods suck, and for some it's medically necessary.
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>>5675903
Not one of those people you quoted claimed that those things were an essential part of womanhood nor did they imply it, they were simply stating their tastes and the way they felt.

Fucking bitter much.
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>>5675702
>Seems kind of impossible to "feel like a girl" when you've never been one.
Seems kind of impossible to "feel like you're attracted to the same sex", when you've never been the opposite sex.

By the same fucking argument, nobody can be gay, because you don't even know what it attraction to your own sex feels like.
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>>5675867
Placing it on social experiences is beyond retarded, it's at monkey level.

Going by that, nobody is a man, because social experiences varies between cultures, and social exposure.

By your definition, feral children can't be male or female.
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>>5681020
Lots of women like their periods, it's not something they would probably discuss with men or transwomen though.
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>>5681023
They're fat, they're bitter because they'll never have any value, nor will they ever be seen as human by other humans.
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>>5680803
>What fucking cis woman likes having periods?
Close to everyone?

No periods means no fertility, and it means you won't be getting estrogen. so you wouldn't even naturally go into a puberty.
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>>5681042
You're either a masochist or trolling, and I'm a cis woman.
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All these assumptions are based on cis people thinking trans people 'feel like women' because they like dresses and are emotional.

Gender dysphoria feels like the inability to see yourself as the sex you are. As a child you're confused as to why the other girls get to wear dresses and you don't. When you go through puberty, it feels like you're seeing yourself transform into the opposite sex, and its terrifying.I'm completely unable to comprehend the fact that my body is male, it feels so wrong to me. But, it has nothing to do with weather i like makeup or video games, those are just personality traits, that differ in each person depending on how you were raised.

There is no single male or female experience, all women and men experience being male or female differently, but everyone, even intersex people who are not clearly male or female and who, by most of your definitions shouldn't know what being either male or female feels like,
still perceive themselves as either male or female. Which in trans people probably has to do with being born with the incorrect brain mapping
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>>5680774
When do MtFs say this? From my experience it's always cis people who say this. MtF's would love to have periods because it would mean they actually had a proper functioning reproductive system and never had to go through the wrong puberty and all the associated bullshit that goes with being trans.

Menstrual cycles are a cake walk compared to having to save up $100k to have your dick sliced up, your face carved up, plastic shoved into your chest, your vocal cords altered, spending hundreds of hours having your face electrified for years, etc. and the associated recovery period from all that bullshit and still not having a body that's as good as a young, fit cis female's.
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>>5681144
All of these assumptions are based on the fact that everyone who made them believes the bible, and is determined to be as much of a piece of shit as is required in order to get double digits.

You know full well that they've determined that trans people are going to hell if they don't settle down and produce babies for God, and that every one of their "assumptions" extends backwards from that premise in order to try and trick trans people into living the lives of straight cis people. Nothing more.

You're not attacking the root cause of the problem. You're only attacking the symptoms. But some diseases are too severe for that to work. You can't treat the black plague by giving people a band-aid and a cough drop.
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>>5681059
So you want to be infertile, and not to produce estrogen on your own?
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>>5681289
I personally would be 100% fine with that if it got me out of periods. Periods are hell. I would happily just pop E pills instead.
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>>5681144
I totally support this worldview, but not all trans people have it. Most of the tumblr trenders don't. Go into the "ftm" tag and you'll see a dozen genderqueer Kaydens talking about how today they want male pronouns because they feel confident, or today they want female because they're wearing dresses. For a lot of trans people they do equate their gender identity with stereotypical masculine/feminine behaviors and experiences.
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>>5681151
I'm MTF and I'm pretty glad that I don't have to go through the pain associated with periods; it just sounds needlessly uncomfortable. Mind you, I'd like to have cis parts, but I'd definitely choose to get on some kind of hormonal contraception in order to reduce period frequency. (It's not like cis women don't do that also, in any case.)
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>>5681327
Those aren't trans people then, they are misdiagnosing themselves
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>>5681391
"Trans" is just an identity, it's not a medical term. I agree they don't have gender dysphoria but they're not any less trans unfortunately. And most of the pro-trans literature coming out right now is by and for them.
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>>5681398
No,' trans*' is an identity. Transsexuality is a medical condition often conflated or repackaged with 'transgender'.

The Umbrella Model is outmoded and not used anymore. See WPATH, DSM-V, etc.
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>>5681415
Neither the WPATH or the DSM-V define transsexualism vs trans* vs transgender. DSM-V just says "gender dysphoria", and WPATH has docs affirming non binary identities. It's a lost cause.
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>>5681425
Non-binary w/dysphoria =/= tumblrite dress up trans*
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>>5675903
>what is a woman?
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>>5675379
Yes, one time this ftm that was trying to tell me how much he likes being a man and how everyone was showing her more respect and holding door and shit.The thing is she didnt pass at all basically just short hair cut and beta male clothing.She also thought every girl we hung out with was trying to get with him even tho that was not the case, anyways we stop hanging out after a shot while.
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>>5675379
Trannies piss me off constantly, they are very self important and think they are super brave independent heroes for prancing around like a freak
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>>5682128
I thought this but like one in five are inter-sex so I'll hold my tough and treat them all with respect, you know what I'm saying faam
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>>5675379
All the time, FtM annoys me greatly, I am indifferent about MtF though.
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>>5681151
I've said to my female friends that I would love to have periods because that means that I can have children.....
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>>5679091
>mtfs try to act like uber feminine porn stars

I'm probably a bad person, but I always find this funny. Not saying ALL of them are like that, but the ones that are do seem to be overcompensating by trying too hard to seem overly feminine, and wear clothing that no cis girl would wear outside of cosplay.
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>>5681010
> I like leaking blood and pus out of a hole between my legs

And mtfs are suppose to be the crazy ones...
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As trans I don't care what cis women think about me. Most cis women are messed up and have awful personalities because they were coddled and catered to in childhood for being grills. Most are just mad about something in their lives and look for people to blame all their problems on (because girls are taught from childhood to never take responsibility for anything Cause that's the menz job).

I don't need to feel like shit to be who i am. I am just as real of a person as anyone else. The argument if I'm a "woman" or not doesn't actually matter at all. All that matters is my lived experience as a human which includes social experiences as both a man and a woman.

It's usually only gross transbians that are obsessed with female approval and think all women should be "on their side" even though most women think they are gross and weird. And if you aren't gross and weird then women will look to cut you down if they can because again thays how girls are raised to compete with each other in underhanded ways
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>>5676861
>"Omg I have a womans brain in a male body because of the way I move my hands and sit cross legged and like make up"
That mindset is more likely based on the neurological research that informs the doctors who treat them, considering the male and female brain develop differently. But most people dislike discussing that reality because it messes with their political beliefs, especially if they're a feminist.

>And then how a lot seem to glamorize being hit on in the street like it's the ultimate approval of womanhood because some crackhead whistled at you.
They typically fear that happening to them, because that can and has led to their brutal murders. There's a chance you're misinterpreting this fear as "glamorization."
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>>5675903
You know what's fucked up? They can't even do those things (probably for the first time in their lives) without someone like you overanalyzing their every breath to judge how valid or invalid their personalities are.
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>>5682128
People use their shitty lives for inspiration porn all the time and it makes you bitter because you want that praise for yourself.
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>>5678938
This is an awesome perspective.

>>5675379
In my opinion, trans hyperconformity to gender expression norms seems like it should be a natural product of their circumstances and position relative to our mostly-heterosexual world's expectations as well as their individual inexperience with the norms of the opposite sex.

So, I wouldn't be annoyed by it. It's very human, and at the very least I'd expect the behaviour.

People who are further into their transitions both physically and experientially tend to fit into norms more accurately.
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