/lang/ - Language Learning

To the guy from Hong Kong:

Isn't there at least some sentiment among Hong Kongers that Cantonese *should* be able to be written down? Do most people actually accept that written Chinese is basically Mandarin just like that, as if it were the most natural thing in the world?

>10pm
>didn't do anything yet

>>76559675
More resources
https://pastebin.com/ZrY22qe0

File: 1496824519412.jpg (461KB, 767x1023px) Image search: [Google]

461KB, 767x1023px

>>76559675
>duolingo for language learning

>>76559741
Quomodo linguae Latinae studes?

Quid = what, why
Cur, Quamobrem = why
Quomodo, Quemadmodum = how
Quis = who
Quando = when
Ubi = where, Unde = from where, Quo = to where

>>76560033
So you're like me, same flag and all.
Except I've been like that for longer than I want to say.

>>76560068
I'm not that happy with it desu. I seem to prefer pimsleur and lingvist, but I just started learning so maybe duolingo will get better.

File: keked.gif (955KB, 360x360px) Image search: [Google]

955KB, 360x360px

>>76559160
Are you going to say it wrong on purpose? kek

Cubans can have a very strong accent, and well, to be fair some people, for some reason, decide to "eat" some words. Either at the beginning or the end, don't ask me why, I've no clue. And no, it's not common.

Try to take it easy, don't burn yourself.

>>76560302
>decide to "eat" some words. Either at the beginning or the end
Can you think of an example?

What I've noticed is that Cubans (as well as other speakers of "Caribbean Spanish") also add lots of "yo" and "tú" where I'd skip them over, treating them almost like in English.
For example, they say things like "¿Qué tú quieres?", and the other person replies "Yo quisiera..." even though that person might be the only person replying ("yo" not contrasting with anybody else).

Italiano

>>76560033

>Late June, still not picked what my new year's resolution language is going to be.

>Turkish teatime podcast
https://mega.nz/#!jE0VwBaD!GFh-a4P41CcXodXiE2gBfOORHk5PsNVgB1sbgUjl4d0

>Turkish class101 podcast
https://mega.nz/#!Dc9kgQzQ!go7cEDqCm8HgCervvdFMzPl7sSggp3eHNzJh5O8KqLU

For that one American

>>76560848
Pick Turkish, it's fun.

File: Esperanto-Grammar.jpg (1MB, 750x4736px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 750x4736px

Posting the Esperanto stuff 1/2

>Lernu - free courses with exercises, overview of the grammar with examples, an active forum, a multimedia library and a dictionary
https://lernu.net/en

>Duolingo course and a discussion forum
https://www.duolingo.com/course/eo/en/Learn-Esperanto-Online

>Kurso de Esperanto - downloadable multimedia program for leaning Esperanto
http://www.kurso.com.br/

>Forvo - Esperanto pronunciation dictionary. Type a word and hear how it's pronounced.
https://forvo.com/languages/eo/

>Esperanto at Memrise
https://www.memrise.com/courses/english/esperanto/

>How to type Esperanto characters on your system
http://en.esperanto.org.nz/how-to-learn-esperanto/how-to-type-esperanto-characters

>An add-on for Chrome which allows you to write ĉ, ŝ, ĝ, ĵ and ŭ by using the x-system (for example typing "cx" will produce "ĉ")
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/anstatauxi/geffaabblpcfabmjdoipmfplglceofgj

File: Esperanto-Alphabet.jpg (207KB, 750x832px) Image search: [Google]

207KB, 750x832px

>>76560925
2/2

>>76560925
>>76560967
Do you actually use Esperanto? Just curious.
And no I'm not going to use 'useless' again.

>>76559675
>What language are you learning?
Deutsch
>share your language learning experiences
Finally the concept of the dative case through my thick fucking skull

The man reads the book with his friend

1.Ask who or what's doing the verb first, to find the nominative/subject.
>Who's reading? The man (subject/nominative)

2.Second, ask who or what the subject/Nominative is using the verb on, to find the object/accusative.
>What's the man reading? the
book (object/accusative)

3.for the dative/indirect object,
Ask the subject/nominative to whom or to what the accusative/direct object is going to
>his friend

I think

>>76561796
>Der Mann liest das buch mit seinen Freund

>>76561605
I use it to read and write (basic for now) stuff on the Internet.
The only way to use it in person is to meet someone here who speaks it or to go as a guest on some Esperantist abroad. I don't know if you know this but there's this Pasporta Servo service with like a thousand people all over the world who offer to have you a guest for free and the only "reward" they offer is that you have to communicate in Esperanto. It's a cool thing but I'm too boring of a person to do something like that.

>>76560967
>Scottish Loch
???
Is there a romance example?

>>76560120
shit, I thought Quomodo is how much

>>76562072
Check this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_fricative

We don't have that sound in Bulgarian, as far as I understand the "h" is an almost silent "h"-sound, while the "ĥ" is more of a "kh" type of thing.

>>76562072
>Is there a romance example?
Spanish "j" in many (but not all!) of the dialects.
Romanian "h", too, in most dialects, such as the one of the speaker in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwuzvanVG40

>>76560302
Aren't both correct? That's now I interpreted it the last thread?

Yeah, I'll try to take it easy. I'm trying to find the right pace. I target an hour but go well over when I can, some days only get a half hour though.

>>76563801
Oh I said buenos rather than buenas

Yeah I'd say "que tengas buenas tardes" and see if he corrected me to only "tengas buenas tardes"

>>76559754
>sorry for being /pol
>To be short: due to more and more Mandarin speakers (mostly mainland Chinese)move in and unwilling to learn Cantonese + more and more schools(especially kindergarten) prefer to teach Chinese in Mandarin rather than Cantonese, it's not sentiment, it's anger.

I can't tell how many hate post about Mandarin+Simplified Chinese at fb. For instant, Simplified Chinese is 簡體字, the antonym for Simplified Chinese is Traditional Chinese, 繁體字, 繁體 means complicated format, both Traditional and 繁 convey a negative meaning to Hongkonger even to Taiwanese. Instead of 繁體字, we prefer 正體字, 正 means proper, and call Simplified Chinese 殘體字, 殘 means damaged or 歪體字, 歪 means distortion. From these names, you already know how people feel toward Simplified Chinese but the written standard on Mandarin didn't get much attack tho, it's still being considered a proper way to write.

The fun fact is through out the Chinese history, writing in the tongue of capital is pretty much the norm, we kinda get used to it since written language serve as important communication method through out the region, like I said before
>u really need a solid one or two years to learn a "Chinese dialect" or basically it's just alien language, my grandma speaks the teochew "dialect" natively but I nvr understand her
Roll the clock back a little bit, hell even Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese write Chinese so we could do trades, Chinese is 中文, 文 means mark, pattern, written language, Cantonese and Shanghainese is 廣東話, 上海話, 話 means speech, spoken language. It's kinda ironic(both funny and bitter) in my eye, people nowadays say "I want to learn Chinese" to refer "I want to learn Mandarin". It's just me being a massive fag tho.

>>76564736
>cont
We just hate to be washed out (same thing apply to Shanghainese and other tongues), the previous imperial government didn't give a shit on what u speak in ur place unless you're going to the capital and be a governor. The PRC government have massive restriction on it, our complain on don't know how to write our vocab seems minor to them, if a teacher try to teach the student a "dialect", the teacher will get punished, if a student speaks it, the student get punished, it is not only applied to the other "dialect", but also Mongolian and Tibetan which didn't consider as Chinese at all.

However, these language do dying out. Ugh, even Guangzhou is full of Mandarin, which is the place the name Cantonese literally came from.

So ya, fuck pol

Did someone ask about how to read and write Chinese character even tho we don't remember the whole thing?

Well, most modern chinese word is basically a combination of radical and rather simple character that borrow a sound and you can stack it like lego and get about 80% accuracy.
If you suddenly forget the radical, look at the sentence or meaning u want to express again, u will know which radical fits.

like when u want to say "fry a fish"
All you can remember is 前魚
u know it is not right, there is sth missing at 前
前魚 doesn't look like it will make any kind of sense
it's about cooking, there should be some fire in it
so you can try out the fire radicals 火, there are only two variants 火 or 灬, the one in deep fried 炸? or the one in heat 熱?
And the answer is 煎, again, the word for front 前 only borrow its sound, do front+fire=fry? no
But look at there pronunciation in Mandarin and Cantonese
前:qian2 / cin4
煎:jian1 / zin1
other similar example:
箭(arrow): jian4 / zin3
>the bamboo radical above
剪(to cut): jian3 / zin2
>the knife/blade radical below
You can see how similar they are but mean differently and how radical hint its meaning, this kind of method only assure u 80% accuracy, simpler word usually need to trance back to the glyph origin which is messy and far from our understanding

But by a dictionary and play with the radical, u prob can get a phonetic series about it and instantly boost your vocab.

The simpler character can only be remembered through memorization, no easy way.

It is somewhat like how English usually does (graphically speaking), a stem and tones of prefixes+suffixes, instead of add it horizontally, we just add shit in all direction (no bottom right tho)

>>76560925
Dankon kamerado.

>>76566640
Jesus man. This is exactly what i was talking yesterday. In western language conjugations, declension and etc are learned through speaking amd you uust use sufixes as automaticaly as breathing. You dont think about inhaling and exhaling air, you just do it.

On the other hand writing mandarin/cantonese is so damn impractical it will be abolished sooner or later. But is fun so ill work in figuring it out

saben un sitio donde puedo practicar mi español que no te requiere que tengas facebook?

I just took my Spanish placement test for my first year of university and I got placed in the highest level conversation class. Feels pretty great

Best German TV shows?

Heute show
Hart aber fair
Maishberger

>>76568929
Congratulations!!

How much work did you do for that?

>>76568918
italki. It helps you find pen pals and you can get private lessons from native speakers who aren't professional teachers for around $8 per hour, usually less if the teacher is Venezuelan.

>>76568996
italki requiere facebook

busco una alternativa

>>76569020
Just make a fake one.

>>76569058
>tiene facebook

como se siente estar seguido por judios?

>>76568991
Thanks!
I took Spanish in school since Kindergarten and my parents speak it as a second language so I don't remember the hard part. I've just been listining to Nicky Jam and watching youtube videos in Spanish for the last 4 years
>>76569020
No, puedes usar un email. Estoy registrado así.

>>76569100
no tengo facebook, pero usando a proxy por cinco dollares esta bien

>>76569100
eh looks like you don't even need to do that, can just use an email per >>76569108. do a better job reading next time, anzu. :^)

>>76569416
>>76569323
no me viene la opcion de registar con email

para que no sé, puede que porque esta es
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>turquia

ademas estoy hablando espanol para practicarlo

File: pepe-cry-or-sperg.png (26KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 600x600px

>>76569108
I'm so mad at myself for not taking spanish class in school seriously. Now here I am at 30 on a Mongolian cave drawing forum trying to start a second language because everyone around me speaks fuckin spanish.

>>76569477
Tiempo para ese proxy después de todo. No se.

I want to learn german,swedish and dutch pls gimmi help. and sources and such
I'm pretty ok at all of them.

>>76568996
Venezuela/Colombia is a steal, they charge 5$ on average for an hour and as low as 3.5$ I think. Even certificated teachers are like 6-7$. I wish I could get prices this low for English, French or German.

File: 1497830961027.png (7KB, 284x284px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 284x284px

>>76569575
You're not going to learn a language if you're not interested in it. Since you weren't interested in learning it in school, you wouldn't have been able to learn the language anyway. Everyone wishes that they could go back to the past and start learning something from when they were 10 years old, so that they would be masters today, but that's not going to happen. Just make the best of it desu. If you study for an hour every day you could be pretty good at spanish in just a few years. Good luck!

I want to start by saying that 1) this is going to be a very casual thing and 2) I understand how big of a commitment this is.

That being said, I want to learn a language. I have narrowed my choice down to three and I've placed them on a difficulty/sound/usefulness scale.

Swedish- I only speak English so this one is very low on the difficulty scale, and it sounds great. Not very useful for me in the States though.

Russian- this is higher up on the difficulty scale (how hard I don't know, if you are learning this fill me in). However, it sounds better than Swedish IMO and is/will be very useful due to it being spread all over the world by the USSR and its large number of speakers.

Farsi (more specifically Dari, the Afghan dialect of it)- I don't know too much about Dari, but from what I know its difficulty is somewhere in between the first two. My paternal side of the family speaks it, and having a native speaker to converse with greatly lowers the difficulty. Sounds awesome IMO, probably about as good as Swedish. It kinda useful, in that I can converse with my family as well as be mutually intelligible with Iranians and Tajiks, but not very.

Simplified:

Swedish: + simplicity, + sound, - usefulness

Russian: - simplicity, + sound, + usefulness

Dari: +/- simplicity, + sound, +/- usefulness

I know sound is personal preference, but the purpose of this thread is so I can get some input in the difficulty and usefulness departments. Once again, this is going to be very a casual thing for me and something I do on the side. I feel like Swedish is best for a more casual learner like me, but I really want more opinions than just mine.

Thanks.

>>76571771
Recommending Russian personally. If you were going to learn a Nordic language, I'd go with Norwegian. But still, I'd go with Russian. Second most-used language on the Internet and a trove of wonderful literature. A challenge and everyone respects a Russian learner, so long as you're not a CS:GO cringe-tard.

>>76559675
Learning Japanese
Finally making progress on it with Duolingo, but still kind of shitty at it. Just starting to understand the weird ass sentence structure.

File: happyanimal1.png (80KB, 235x234px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 235x234px

>>76572161
The Japanese course on the app is absolute garbage desu. If you actually want to learn the language in a hurry, you should check out Tae Kim's guide to Japanese desu. And you can use Memrise (JLPT N5 course) to learn vocabulary while you're on it.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete
https://www.memrise.com/course/554/jlpt-n5-vocab/

>>76572142
I have 1500 hours because I accidentally stayed in the menu for the entire summer of 2015 and I really suck

>>76572142
I second this

>>76572142
Didn't read that you were casual. Russian would be the most impressive but Norwegian would definitely better suit a casual experience. Your decision mate.

>>76559675
>What language are you learning?
I just started in Russian a week ago
I started like a year ago in English and I understand it very well, but i still need to practice my speaking and writing

File: 1498506407319.png (113KB, 916x1099px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 916x1099px

>>76569603
Here is something for Swedish senpai.

>>76571771
I would pick Dari, a native speaker to help you at all times makes the learning proccess so much easier.

>>76566640
Yeah that was me
Thanks for the explanation, it certainly looks like a nightmare. But now I'm very curious about its history.
There's a part of me that wonders why didn't they think about something easier or more standard

I wonder if this troubles could be the equivalent or grammar mistakes that ours dummies do

>>76571600
This hits my kokoro so hard I almost feel like crying

>>76568957
Gute Zeiten Slechte Zeiten

>>76569603
Pick one. Only when you're at least intermediate you can add another.

http://www.thepolyglotdream.com/learning-more-than-one-language-at-the-same-time/

>>76572373
they just released the Japanese Duolingo lessons like 1 month ago. Give them time to improve it

>>76560811
From old thread

I'd say I'm at A2, and I've been studying for abut 10 months, an hour a day.

>>76561848
It's "seinem" as it's "der Freund".

>>76575673
>can't ever bring myself to study 30 minutes a week
Depression killed my drive.

What are the best French novels to read for practice for a late beginner or should I try to hold off reading full books until I increase my vocab?

>>76577864
Also is it difficult or not recommended to learn more than one language at a time?

>>76577864

Le Petit Prince tends to be the go to early reading recommendation.

>>76577962
see
>>76575552

>>76578221
>>76578603
Appreciate the help lads.

>>76568855
If you try to write chinese in pure romanization, like in Mandarin, the biggest trouble you will have: "There's too fucking many similar sounding words".

This also applies to massively loan chinese words like Japanese/Korean, these three languages have different tendency on de-sinicization, I guess you are familiar with Japanese, the mix of Hanji+hiragana+katagana, normally they will write in hiragana+katagana, but when u need to precisely mean sth, even a Japanese exclusive vocab, they have to write Hanji so it can be differed from other meanings. This situation also apply to Korean, Korean completely drop Chinese character in daily basis now, Hangul+Hanji was how Korean wirte before 20 century but even tho they abolished it sth precise like law still need a blend of Hangul+Hanji.

Ah, at the example above, the only differences are the first consonant and the tone, modern chinese is slightly easier because we have adj/adv marker now which ancient chinese don't have, so almost every character can be a noun/adj/verb/adverb, with this kinda freedom, it's still pretty common for people to believe "Chinese" don't have grammar, but ya with word other and pause precisely (yes pause is fucking important, the whole sentence will change when you pause at different timing, which apply to all languages), u pretty much just get it.

Hell u need to check how the ancient chinese omit their subject all the time and mix SVO and SOV in a single paragraph, u will definitely find modern chinese is already affected by european language so much(but still understandable I don't know why).

For me, the most impractical in most european language is conjugation, aspect marker is easier to deal with because you don't need change anything, especially the clusterfuck in Englsih, the -ing, -ed, -en, isn't that hard, it works rather similar, vowel change like in swin? entire new word like in go? no please. So ya language or cultural difference is really weird.

>>76571600
This literally me

File: keksimus maximus.jpg (96KB, 596x628px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 596x628px

>>76560482
>Can you think of an example?
Not right now, maybe the one the fellow American was talking about, but I know there're more. It could be an educational or accent thing.

>What I've noticed is that Cubans (as well as other speakers of "Caribbean Spanish") also add lots of "yo" and "tú" where I'd skip them over, treating them almost like in English.
>For example, they say things like "¿Qué tú quieres?", and the other person replies "Yo quisiera..." even though that person might be the only person replying ("yo" not contrasting with anybody else).
Yeah, lmao, they totally do. Also the way the speak, like their mouths are full of sound, Idk if that makes sense but that's kind of how it looks-sounds for us.

I've meet a few Cuban expats and they all do the same. I remember with some friends one of them -Cuban expat- will make jokes exageration his accent a lot
>UUUUy mAAAmi, <aquí> vie~eene eEEEL CUUUbanito saaaabrosÓOOOn
>Hmmmmnnn Oyyy~ maAami, caale~ntito rico rico Hmm-hmmm

God, we all laughed so hard

>>76579128
>I've meet a few Cuban expats and they all do the same. I remember with some friends one of them -Cuban expat- will make jokes exageration his accent a lot

Right version:
>I was trying to say that we were a bunch of friends and colleages. One of them a Cuban expat that would exaggerate his accent every now and then to make a joke.

I fucked that sentence up, I shouldn't watch videos and write at the same time

any recommendations for mandarin? I'm attending to a local course for it (we're about to finish the most basic level next week). after next week the course will be closed momentarily because of summer, so meanwhile what should I do to progress?

>>76560848
Why is this comment to British?

>>76562072
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvqWcyxM0os

>>76563903
Yeah, that was it. Tell us what he does anon

File: 300.jpg (14KB, 237x300px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 237x300px

>>76574567
Um, idk, our education tend to teach us how to form sentences really early, it's quite impractical to us grind with phonetic series or radicals. I mean they will explain it, but it's nth when u don't get into sentence since our tongue is highly relied on word orders and contexts. Those two method are only useful when u need some new vocab.

>But now I'm very curious about its history.
Idk what do u mean about history? u mean the character right? I guess someone already posted it before, it comes from the hieroglyph, the Oracle Bone Script to be precise, it's quite primitive as many people say, time pass, people start to craft it on bronze and stone. And at Qin Dynasty, all the script from different region had been collected and standardized, it's called the Small Seal Script, it's around 220 BC, it's very curvy and complicated to write. Around Han dynasty, a new script become popular, it is the Clerical Script, it's based on the Small Seal Script but more square, pretty much set the tone on Chinese character and the first dictionary Shuowen Jiezi was published too (I got a copy, the small seal script always looks funny to me) which gave us the radical system, it's around 121 AD. Around Tang Dynasty (618-907AD), a new script based on the Clerical Script become popular, called the Regular Script, the English translation call it Regular Script because it's still the standard character of modern chinese charater.

I guess it's not what u need but it's the development of the character which is messy and fucked up like any kind of history.

>There's a part of me that wonders why didn't they think about something easier or more standard
>>76564736
>The fun fact is through out the Chinese history, writing in the tongue of capital is pretty much the norm
>which change over and over dynasty
However, scholar through out Chinese history definitely underrated the change of spoken language

Hope I answered sth related to ur need, ugh

Why didn't the Chinese use a normal alphabet? They could have copied the Greek alphabet, I'm pretty sure 3d century BC they would have connections to Bactria and beyond.

>>76559675
That's a nice picture.

File: latvian6_zps38a7d1d8.png (906KB, 792x624px) Image search: [Google]

906KB, 792x624px

>>76559675
>Balto slavic
NO!This meme has to DIE!
We aren't slavic and not ''balto slavic'' we are JUST BALTIC you hear me?JUST BALTIC!

File: 800px-Baltic_Tribes_c_1200.svg.png (220KB, 800x881px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 800x881px

JUST BALTIC GOD DAMNIT!
Learn any slavic language and you will understand context of speach in other slavic languages try that with Baltic (Latvian and Lithuaian) and you will not understand SHIT from the language, so fuck off.

>>76580240
>>76580274
"The Baltic languages belong to the Balto-Slavic branch of the Indo-European language family."
t. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_languages

File: apu-hm.png (27KB, 741x609px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 741x609px

Is using Duolingo, Lingvist, Memrise and Pimsleur concurrently too much? I started just wanting to try things out and see what I liked. I enjoy Lingvist the most for vocab, and Pimsleur I do in the car. My feelings on them all so far:

Duolingo: (I spend about 15min per day on)
+: Seems to be a nice basic structure.
-: I don't think the chat bots are very good. I feel like everyone else is using this as their main structure and so I'm kind of going with that.

Lingvist: (I spend about 30min per day on)
+: Favorite for vocab. I also like that I can quickly do a few and then stop or do a bunch at once. It's very good for fitting into schedules.
-: Not enough structure to learn the language, it's more just learning words. Maybe a bit of phrases.

Pimsleur: (I spend about 30min per day on).
+: Learning how to listen better, there is pressure to respond quickly. Structured learning.
-: I'm a visual learner, and so I have a hard time remembering if I don't write it down at least once. On this beginner level I feel like the responses need to be given too quick and I can't think that fast. I usually don't do a new lesson every day. I do a new lesson, then re-do the lesson a few times to try to get it down better. I'm hoping this is the right thing to do.

Memrise: (I spend about 5min per day on)
+: Lots of little phrases
-: They keep begging for money.


>>76579911
Will do!

>>76576228
Anon I have severe depression. Learning languages is one of the only things that distracts me from it so that's why I devote so much time to it (sometimes I'll do 2 or 3 hours a day).

When I had a shitty job that made me even more depressed, I had no time for languages I was so mentally sick.

We're gonna make it friend, keep going

>>76560120
First of all, second person singular doesn't work like that. You should ask "How does one learn Latin" and not "how doest thou learn Latin"
Second, "linguae latinae" is wrong, should be accusative singular, "linguam latinam", if it is the object in the sentence or "lingua latina" if it is the subject (for example when using it with a passive verb to express the lack of an acting person).
Third, "studeo" doesn't mean "to study" in the sense of "learning" it means "to put effort into something". Use "disco" instead.
>Quomodo lingua latina discitur?
Which translates to:
"How is the Latin language learned?"
Or in a more comprehensive way:
"How does one learn Latin?"
Or:
"How do you learn Latin?"

File: 1481582014820.png (170KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 400x400px

>>76580560
Yes and it's a meme, we should be called JUST baltic.

>>76580130
u better ask
>with the spread of Buddhism and long history trading with the Indians why they didn't at least copy the Brahmic script, look at all the South/Southeast Asians!

How would I know, there's certain amount of people knew Sanskrit, mostly the monks (because it's their practice) and educated people (because it's fancy) but never threat the domination of Chinese character

File: 1493667822992.jpg (156KB, 1200x1746px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 1200x1746px

>>76581170
Independance?WHEN?
Ecil commies regeame must be defeated!

>>76580650

Memrise begging for money? You mean on the phone? Because I use the website and that never happened to me.

>>76582273
Yeah, it's on the phone.

>>76580791
Huh, I thought studeo takes dative

>>76580130
And u prob don't understand how East Asian languages let the phonology of a Chinese character become blurry and perfer to understand things visually.
The invention of Chinese character always focus on written communication, it is sth started before AD which originally shared within different part of China (which have a huge amount of local tongues) and slowly shared by the whole East Asian.
We got different focuses, it's just history does its trick.

People will definitely use a new tool if it's works better but romanization pretty much can't deal with it, so as hiragana and hangul (why Koreans ditch Chinese character away are more about Japanese invasion rather they don't have the need of using it, it is a bit too late to abolish it at the 1960s for writing wise) look at those words had the same sound and same tone but mean differently, there're millions of it. Also different tongues will pronounce differently but still mean the same.

The historical section is a bit too long, fuck, anyway u gotta delete all of words and invent a lot of replacement before u wanna ditch Chinese character away.

Writing proper English and not using a dumbphone as a serious resource should be pre-requisites in this thread. Holy fuck, seems like commas are pretty much a random (often ignored) decoration to most of you.

You'll never build a thriving community without some kind of standard, so people can take learning seriously. This carefree approach only suits people who have the luxury of conversation partners/immersion. Everyone else should be building their knowledge on top of a more grammatical foundation, else you'll just pidgin your way into the target language with the half-assed knowledge you have from your native one.

Also, I could try translating this guide to English, if anyone thinks it's interesting enough (Google Translate might give you an idea of the content):
https://55chan.org/lang/res/1.html
It doesn't have all the DOs and DON'Ts as I preached, but it's quite down to earth and general-purpose.

>>76587013
>Writing proper English and not using a dumbphone as a serious resource should be pre-requisites in this thread. Holy fuck, seems like commas are pretty much a random (often ignored) decoration to most of you.

Things weren't this bad pre-neo-neo-4chan. Most likely it's due to an influx of under age users who are taught English by the "everyone's a winner" method in school.

>>76580791
>First of all, second person singular doesn't work like that. You should ask "How does one learn Latin" and not "how doest thou learn Latin"
Hi. I thought the person meant second-person "you" rather than generic "you", so that was my main mistake.
>Second, "linguae latinae" is wrong, should be accusative singular, "linguam latinam"
No, studeo takes the dative here. (To be more precise, studeo ALMOST always takes the dative; the accusative is used but is rare and almost only used for pronouns like nihil and id).
>Third, "studeo" doesn't mean "to study" in the sense of "learning" it means "to put effort into something". Use "disco" instead.
While you're right when it comes to Golden Age Classical Latin, studere meaning "to learn" is perfectly common in post-Augustan Classical Latin. L&S give citations from Quintilian, Seneca the Younger, Pliny the Younger and Tacitus. It's also very common in contemporary Latin in my experience. I don't see anything wrong with it, unless your aim is to imitate Cicero or Caesar specifically, instead of using Classical Latin as a whole.

>>76560912
What's fun about Turkish for you?

>>76560925
>>76560967
bonaj afiŝoj, amiko

>>76562072
just so you know, that sound is usually only used for proper names, as it's quite hard to pronounce when your native tongue doesn't have it

>>76560529
come stai?

>>76571600
this. schools don't work for language learning, not because the lessons or teachers are bad necessarily, but because the average student (including ones who later WILL be interested) just doesn't give a shit.
and yeah, the best moment to start learning a language is ten years ago. the second best moment is now

>>76575383
holy shit, a German version exists? is it just as cancerous?

File: 2.jpg (55KB, 633x750px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 633x750px

When the only thread I'm interested in on /int/ is ded

>>76589407
Have a (you) anon. I feel the same.

What's your opinion on the French vs. Dutch tug-of-war going on in Belgium? Are you a French speaker and consider it a good thing, are you a Dutch speaker and consider it a bad thing?

>>76589407
I don't even know if I can say I'm from /int/ since I don't really know most of the memes, I just come here and the culture in this thread seems completely different than elsewhere on the board.

File: 255px-Flag_of_Catalonia.svg.png (641B, 255x170px) Image search: [Google]

641B, 255x170px

This is the Catalan Embassy.

I will help any autist that bothers to even know about the existence of my language.

>>76587013
autism

>>76591208
At a meetup for French speakers the other day I met a guy who said he spoke Catalan. I told him to speak to me in Catalan and that I'd reply in French.

I understood almost everything he said, except that it later became clear he wasn't REALLY speaking Catalan, but Valencian.

>>76592100

Interesting. His accent is probably "easier"', since their vowel system tends to be simpler.

In central/northern Catalonia and the Balearic islands, we have neutralization. Unstressed "o"s become "u"s, phonologically. And all unstressed "a"s and "e"s become schwas (mid central vowel, "ə"). In Balearic they might even do that with the stressed ones.

Combined with the quite strong "dark L"s, it makes our speech quite characteristic and probably harder to understand and learn.

>>76590351

I'm a Dutch speaker. It's not really that much in the media anymore nowadays. Just culturally speaking Dutch speaking Belgians and French speaking Belgians barely have anything in common, that's why there's a sentiment amongst Flemish people that it would be better to split from Wallonia.

Flanders is also economically stronger so this is a reason too. One of the main things that anger Dutch speakers is Walloons unwillingness to learn Dutch. Brussels is supposed to be both a Dutch and French speaking area yet you'll only hear French (even Dutch speakers are forced to speak French if they work in a store for example) because French people are literally unwilling to speak another language (not just because they can't, they don't want to).

>>76592546
Yeah that's what I thought when most words actually sounded like the Spanish equivalent but with a few sounds dropped.

File: que-tengas-buenas-tardes.jpg (463KB, 1209x756px) Image search: [Google]

463KB, 1209x756px

>>76579911
Reporting in.

He liked "que tengas buenas tardes"

We spoke about our upcoming vacations for a little while and how much Spanish is spoken in this area - at least as much as I could say. I think I made a new Spanish buddy. I hope I don't embarrass myself too much.

anybody got rosetta stone german on mega or something?

>>76596154
No, but Rosetta Stone is not the One True Path to language acquisition. If you can't find it, try other stuff. German's got plenty of resources.

Not sure I can fully articulate this question, bear with me.

How exactly does one move on from the beginner/intermediate stage? I've done all the basics and have worked my way to completion on things like duolingo, memrise, grammar textbooks/workbooks, etc. At this point I just read books in the target language. I hardly ever look up grammatical rules or vocab words, I just figure them out on the fly. Yet I still feel as if my skills are lacking (missing implications, innuendo, or whatever). I'll never have occasion or need to write college level essays or anything but I wonder how one moves past the intermediate stage without going to that. All info on learning is geared towards the beginner and I don't understand how to become advanced beyond full immersion which I guess I'm doing.

Make sense? It seems that learning materials are either too basic for me or too advanced (for people looking to be university level writers/teachers).

>>76600631
Thanks senpai.

So I want to eventually learn both spanish and portugeuse. Right now i know english and a bit of french. Which do you guys think would be easier to learn first for me, portugeuse or spanish? I cant decide

>>76601011

>All info on learning is geared towards the beginner and I don't understand how to become advanced beyond full immersion which I guess I'm doing.

Well, you might want to move beyond learning materials if you aren't doing that already. They have their place of course but won't teach you the genuine language.

There is a difference between a sentence constructed according to the rules and how genuine people express themselves.

You need to slowly build a ton of exposure of genuine material geared towards natives + contact with other speakers to break out of the school book cage. You understand?

But there is some truth to it. Most resources are made for beginngers because that's where the money is since only a small minority of people manages to move beyond it.

>>76601153
It doesn't matter go with your gut feeling. The difference isn't significant. Though, Spanish might be easier, solely because you could have more native-speakers near you to pratice with.

>>76601414
So I'm basically on the right path given that I've left the learning materials behind? I'll just try and expose myself to more native materials as opposed to learner materials now. The textbooks don't do much for me (not that I'm a grammar wizard, I just don't need to refer to rules when reading books, I just feel it).

>>76601590

What language are you learning?

>>76601717
German.

>>76601590
I mean, I'm not saying that you should ditch them completely. For example, if you stumble upon some obscure grammatical concept in the wild you should consult your books or when you forget certain things. Yes, school books draw from genuine resources, newspaper articles and so on but let me put it this way:

You've learned how to screw a screw or hammer in a nail but that's different from building a table or a chair. Use your intermediate skills and actually apply them in a real and genuine environment to do stuff more and more.

Try to read a children's novel or watch cartoons in a language. Try to have little chats and small talk with natives over the Internet or IRL if possible. Move on to series, reading newspaper articles, more difficult novels, try to argue with/debate people etc.

>>76601011
Travel to a place where they speak your target language and immerse yourself.

kίναιδοι

>>76605496
pathice

File: 1497992685916.jpg (49KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 300x300px

I can help for french

File: austistische.jpg (51KB, 604x604px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 604x604px

How do you practice your language?
I'm the Chilean learning Finnish, I've been addicted to posting on /mämmi/ for a long time and now I'm posting in Finnish more often. I'm also talking to some people on interpals in Finnish.
But there's always this sensation of being a pain to others, specially if you ask them to point out your mistakes.

What do you do?

>>76587142
Kek, I love to see that /pol is everywhere.

>>76587013
>Holy fuck, seems like commas are pretty much a random (often ignored) decoration to most of you.
commas are a spook ye dookie

>>76587013
>le its le phones fault
This board has always been shit, only /pol/ has experienced a sharp decline in quality since it became 60% phone posters

File: 1497894308487.png (477KB, 785x1031px) Image search: [Google]

477KB, 785x1031px

>>76609129
>le le its le phones fault

Really makes me think

RUSSIAN
OR
CHINESE
?

>>76587013

Autism: the post

>>76587013
Thanks for telling us what we have been doing wrong this whole time all mighty expert.

>>76610547
Russian is easier compared to Chinese.
Go with a Chinese language.

>>76610547
Both are probably about equally useful to you, or useless, depending on how you look at them. Both have layers of ancient language (Old Church Slavonic, Classical Chinese) embedded in them in the vocabulary, which is cool if you're into that. Both are awful languages spoken by awful people.

I don't know. I'd say go for Chinese because it's piss easy to find enthusiastic encouraging young people who'll speak it to you over the Internet, even though timezones are a bitch. And no, my name's not Zhang.

Why have your choices come down to these two anyway? Wouldn't German or French be better?

>>76610900
>>76610800
thanks for the answers

And yeah, for now I'll be working on my French.

>>76607559
chili tötö

>>76610900
>I don't know. I'd say go for Chinese because it's piss easy to find enthusiastic encouraging young people who'll speak it to you over the Internet, even though timezones are a bitch.

dude, where?
i need this

>Ugly language
>terrible people
>terrible country
>10 bazilion homophones
>5000 characters.

Yet i still want to learn it. Explain this shit /lang/ are they poisoning our takeaways or something?

>>76612042
>>76612278
Me third.

>and I hate that sino threads are absolutely,horrifically useless

>>76569020
Tandem (the app)

Completely free, no FB required. Talk or text with native speakers of any language

If I translate a Chinese cartoon from the 1980s to English, will people watch?

>>76580240
>>76580274
>>76581027
Balts are literal Slavs genetically, stop larping a Nazi when they intended to exterminate Balts.

>>76613580
>Balts are literal Slavs genetically
Dont get me started Finn

File: 1473865466434.jpg (90KB, 480x720px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 480x720px

>>76609129
>This board has always been shit
Doesn't change the fact you can peer pressure newcomers to act like actual human beings if the thread's regulars have some kind of internal cohesion.
As it is, all I see is a bunch of wishful thinking, retarded enthusiasts with no notion on how to learn anything, with a couple of serious students here and there, who are gonna make it, casting pearls before swine.

>>76610058
>advanced
>Duolingo might not be finished yet
>begin Pimsleur
This is why phoneposters will never accomplish anything.

>>76610800
>Thanks for telling us what we have been doing wrong this whole time all mighty expert.
You are welcome. Keep creating these, it's the sole reason it has any traction at all. But the path of least effort will always be longer.
Work more on your English, too.

>>76582448
>>76587234
>studere with Dative
Yes, but I was already replacing it with discere in my mind, sorry for the confusion.

>learning anything other than Augustan Classical Latin
Disgusting.

File: 1455612527005.jpg (261KB, 900x900px) Image search: [Google]

261KB, 900x900px

WHY IS INVERTING FRENCH SENTENCES SO GODDAMN COUNTERINTUITIVE

>>76617419
>advanced
>Duolingo might not be finished yet
>begin Pimsleur
I'm a beginner learning another language, but yeah that does seem like a weird route to take. I guess there are many paths to learning, but starting Pimsleur that late seems like a lot of the content would be a waste.

File: HAAAAAAAAAAA (red).png (335KB, 633x758px) Image search: [Google]

335KB, 633x758px

>>76559675
>tfw we're not germanic

FUCK ROMANS

>>76610058
Does anyone have anymore of these flowcharts?

>>76617859
Sadly there are only a few. I'm going to do a Spanish one when I learn, but that will be like a year and a half from now. :o/

>>76617951
Got a French one?

>>76618003
Yes, in fact we do:
>>76522337

>>76618125
ayy thanks man

>>76611807
not helpful, Matti

>>76617701
Study a not dying language instead dork

Agora só to melhorando meu português e espanhol. No futuro não sei, tal vez vou aprender chinês ou japonês pelos objetivos weeaboos. Se teríamos ruim azar aqui na Suécia vou ter que aprender árabe...

>>76568957
Cobra 11 :^)

>>76619135
Minusta sää on tänään sateinen ;DD
Yöllä taivas on selkeä ja tähdet ovat(tähtitieteilijät eivät ole ikävä) ;DDD Ja BENIS on myös hyvä, Viro on paras ;D

>be canadian
>learning french because it can help with life and getting a government job at times
>the more and more I learn the language the more I hate it
once I'm done learning it I want to learn another though

>>76619818
>talvez aprenda
>se tivermos azar (azar already has a bad connotation)

Nice, dude, keep it up.

>>76617419
For me personally duolingo for start , memrise for vocabulary and reading and fsi were enough for beginner lvl.
(Then again russian is very similar to croatian and grammatical rules are practically the same)

I've never used pimsleur. Skipped it and went directly on full imersion and samo advanced reading comprehension and that's that.

But chinese is a real a chalange for me.
Seems to me you know what steps to take generally and I'd like to hear an advice from you

File: XRAY_MIXED_BASH_282729.jpg (651KB, 2162x3000px) Image search: [Google]

651KB, 2162x3000px

>>76620204
Obrigado fofinho gatinho

Instead of wasting your time on repetitive language gaming applications, start with a podcast or (a) video(s) that throw(s) you right into using the targeted language. Sit alone in your room when you have time to study, listen to audio files and instead of remembering the constructions they use, form your own.

If you're given a sentence "Excuse me, where can I buy tickets here?" in, let's say Russian: "Извинитe, гдe мoжнo кyпить билeты здecь?", just take the verb, once you're confident in your pronunciation, and play with the periphery

Insert funny and memorable adjectives, nouns. Just pick a dictionary and randomly, with your finger, pick a substantives. Practice this with other verbs. You can "tire out" a verb after 20 or so sentences. By now, you should have an arsenal of a handful of substantives, a mastered verb conjugation and a confident pronunciation

Check around your room. See what you'd be doing after practice. "I want to go out have a drink" - "But I don't know how to say this in Russian...I know the verb "пить" is to drink... and "I want" sounds like sneezing? хoчy, isn't it?" Я хoчy пить. "I want to drink..not bad for now"

You start with wanting to create vast sentences, but in the beginning, get used to have a five word sentences and four of them being your native language ones/English and the remaining one in your targeted language. Over time, the native ones will shrink. Take even the most banal thinking process, and if you're for example learning a language close to your native one, squeeze the shared vocabulary.

If it helps, create a "personality". By "personality", I mean speech patterns, tone/voice virility, topic choices, while thinking/speaking in your targeted language. Surprise and challenge yourself by breaking the spell of everyday thoughts and while thinking in your targeted language, say and think something you normally don't

Also, use swears to bridge native and targeted language

Learning Cantonese here.

I feel like a bit of an idiot t.b.h, I'm only up to lesson 6 in pimsleur cantonese and I have to play it back 3 times to get most of it.

Anyway, thinking I should probably learn to read it or something. Can anyone recommend a good resource for learning to read Chinese with cantonese pronunciation? I'm willing to throw money at it if I have to.

>>76620587
>neyde spearsposting

>>76620545
>Chinese
I have no experience with learning this specific language, but to me this would be the modus operandi:

- Understand tones, but not worry about getting them right at beginner level - this hinders most enthusiasts;
- Use Anki for studying core vocabulary and hanzi. Audio is a must to help internalizing the tones;
- HEAVY shadowing routine, getting some basic, useful sentences and learning to imitate their contour, not really thinking about grammar, just their English meaning.
- Some grammar study on the side.

No need for writing, although learning stroke order is important (at least in Japanese), and radicals are always a nice knowledge to have.

After a couple months, it should be enough to start consuming media.

I wonder if it'd be more beneficial to learn everything blindly (no pinyin), just so the western phonology doesn't tarn your comprehension of sound, but I think it will be quite hard to study (and type) without it.

>>76612042
>>76612728
Anywhere where young people from China gather, really. When they see you being able to hold a conversation in half-assed Chinese when chatting, a lot of them actually go on and make the effort to speak to you. Some of them will be looking for an English-Chinese exchange, but many of them will just keep talking to you in Chinese.

I found it very easy to find said young people through Interpals (I messaged both guys and girls in Chinese, and they would usually reply) and QQ chat rooms (where I'd do nothing except talk in the chatroom, and randoms would send me friend requests all the time--note that I never went on chatrooms for people learning English as people there are looking for an exchange, I went to chatrooms on other topics). You can probably try contacting them via other places like italki and such, or go on actual topical Chinese boards (but I have no experience with that).

Timezones are an absolute bitch though. Some people only wanted to have oral conversation and not chat, and that didn't always work out. I also discovered I'm not enough of a normie to want to deal with Chinese normies regularly, but that's a more personal problem of mine. People sometimes poked fun at me for being involved with people from China through the Internet when I live in freaking Vancouver and could easily find local Chinese people too.

>>76612278
Be honest with me, are you just interested in the girls? But they're awful as any other girls, anon.

Studying Chinese as a challenge for its own sake seems more noble, but also pointless when there's other cultures whose cultural products you might enjoy more and don't have an easy language either. I'm thinking specifically of Japanese.

here is an unorthodox question for you

is 5 years an adequate time period to reach fluency in B2 spanish, A1 french and zero portuguese?

File: GodOfCookery.jpg (27KB, 300x429px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 300x429px

>>76620944
Watch movies and TV, reading will come with time. It's far more important to be able to speak and listen. For starters you can find English subbed versions of Chow Sing Chi (Stephen Chow's) movies. 食神 (sik6 sun5) is pretty ebin and official subs of old Hong Kong films tend to be fairly entertaining as well.

There's also 無間道 (mou4 gan3 dou6) which might have won a prize or something, and for TV series you can just watch whatever shit that's airing right now, or look for some 2000s era TV series, most people agree that those were better.

File: Naked_Ambition_2_poster.jpg (34KB, 298x418px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 298x418px

>>76623764
And there's also this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Ambition_2

>>76623656
>Be honest with me, are you just interested in the girls? But they're awful as any other girls, anon.

No interest in Asians at all and i live in the bumfuck north of England and the only Chinese near me is the fat 4'9 takeaway owners daughter, not exactly an exotic appeal..

Mostly i'm interested in the Chinese characters and the history. The characters are so utterly alien compared to our alphabet that they fascinate me. It's hard to even explain why they are so interesting.

Honestly as a language Japanese is far more interesting and nicer to listen to but 1.3 billion Chinese and Chinese history being so much more interesting makes it hard to choose Japanese over Chinese.

>>76623750
Depends on how much time you have to dedicate to learning these languages. But yeah, it sounds very doable to me. When you get to B2 Spanish, learning to read other Romance languages (except Romanian) should be a total breeze.

>>76620944
>>76623764
watch Wong Kar-Wai too

>>76624006
pretentious, just go with Japanese, you will give up pretty quick

>>76624030
Similar question: Isn't a year and a half a reasonable amount of time for English to B2 Spanish?

>>76624030
aun no puedo entender totalmente lo que estoy oyendo en espanol, alguna gente habla demasiado rapido para mi

recomendarias algo?

>>76624245
Are you the Hong Kong guy who knows 粵拼 Jyutping? Do you ever find Jyutping transcriptions with tones that don't match how you usually pronounce a character?

I once tried learning a bit of Cantonese when I had a girlfriend from Hong Kong who spoke it, but she'd say many words that had tone 5 in my textbook really had tone 2 (or vice-versa), and other things like that. I was never good at distinguishing tones 2 and 5 because they're so similar anyway, but when I listened to Cantonese I noticed people would often drop certain consonants in the middle (imagine 粤拼 being pronounced something like jyu6ping1 without a t), or in repeated syllables (like 好好 being pronounced hou2ou2). Any comments on this?

It annoys me because no textbook and no linguist seems to talk about or report these things.

>>76624409
Ver películas, viajar a españa o mexico. Tienes que hablar con la raza.

>>76624361
I disagree it is enough time, but feel free to prove me wrong.

>>76624409
I don't talk to people who study Spanish about how they learn Spanish much, so I don't know what to recommend.

Tell me if you find anything here useful, particularly specific podcasts:
https://forum.language-learners.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5377

>>76624409
Se me olvidó responder en español en el post que acabo de escribir.

>>76624706
>I disagree it is enough time, but feel free to prove me wrong.
I hope I do, but I'm not very good at learning. So maybe 2.5 years is more practical?

Sell me on German lads.

File: ew.jpg (97KB, 1024x904px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 1024x904px

>struggle all day trying to learn some new material
>keep getting answers wrong
>finally give up after failure and failure
>next day somehow know most of it
anyone know this feel?

>>76624873
Better chances of having a kinky black latex, chains, crazy contraption, german sex. It's not the same if you can't speak the language.

>>76625022
unconscious brain working

>>76625022
I wish.

I am actually the opposite. I get the answers right, but then I forget EVERY FUCKING THING.

>>76625063
I wish there was some way to take more advantage of the unconscious.

>>76625381
I do some of that too. But lately it's like things need to soak in for a while for me to get it. I've for sure learned there is a time to stop studying and try again the next day.

>>76624323

Not being interested in women with the body of prepubescent boys isn't pretentious.

>>76624466
Not that guy from Hong Kong, but I do know Cantonese and all I can say is that jyutping is ridiculously impractical and only dumb foreigners would think it helps.

>>76625876
>all I can say is that jyutping is ridiculously impractical and only dumb foreigners would think it helps.
Why? It's an okay guide to how stuff is pronounced, even if most Cantonese speakers don't know it, and even if learning materials are not as good as they could be failing to mention things like how 好好 is sometimes pronounced hou2ou2, not just hou2hou2).

>>76620693
>>76621164

Thank you both this will help definitely

>>76626129
I don't think it helps to get hung up on the orthography of the pronunciation. You're probably just not used to having a writing system so drastically disconnected from the way the language is spoken. Once you get the hang of spoken Cantonese and the way the language works you'll be able to guess the sound of words just from the context, even words you've never seen before, and even if you can't the radicals and the pairing character often give plenty of clues about the unknown character's meaning.

>>76619818
estás a aprender brasileiro? porque não português de Portugal? é mais semelhante a espanhol. A não ser que também estejas a aprender espanhol da América Latina, aí já não sei.

also,
"vou ter que aprender" está correcto
vou ter que aprender = I will have to learn
talvez aprenda = I might learn
-
talvez tenha que aprender = I might have to learn

>>76624466
Not that guy but no one learn Cantonese like this, too many unpredictable tone change to express a mood, it's all about the contexts. I guess western people can't live without a chart of declensions and IPA.

*sigh* If u really want to do Cantonese in traditonal grammar class style, go check Cantonese: A Comprehensive Grammar by Stephen Matthews, I guess u will find it at Amazon or sth, saw this guy on a TV interview before, he teach linguistic in CUHK

>>76626480
>I don't think it helps to get hung up on the orthography of the pronunciation. You're probably just not used to having a writing system so drastically disconnected from the way the language is spoken.
I think what you say is true if you're a native speaker, but anon, what if there are limitations on what most adult brains can acquire?

I found IPA transcriptions of English words immensely helpful when I was learning English, but even today I find it difficult to distinguish whether a person is saying "cut" or "cot", "hut" or "hot", because I moved to Canada when I was 17 years old, which means my brain basically interpreted almost only Spanish sounds for many years.

I know "hut" and "hot" sound differently, and I can basically reproduce the difference when I speak, but I can't hear the difference unless the person says "hut, hot" in a sequence with the words next to each other. I just hear something sounding vaguely like the Spanish O sound.

Pronunciation transcriptions are pretty useful when your brain can't, and probably never will, distinguish the sounds of a foreign language well.

>>76625022
The best way for you to learn is obviously auditory

>>76627014
The "que" there eludes me
Why does it fill the "to" function, instead of directly linking the conjugated "ter" with aprender or using the basic "a" (the latter sounds less fluid and impractical, I know)

>>76627115
Untrue.
The writing system might as well be what makes you think they sound similar, because you have a pre-conception of what a U or a O might sound like in your language.
I remember in school when I would say "up" as "ãp", and everyone would laugh at me, saying the correct way as "ap", because they saw this tip somewhere. Same as saying "think" as "fink", due approximation, and I was one of the few people able to say the TH sound.

I've started to learn French after my 20s and had no problem to adapt, even though I still fail to recognize the le/les pronunciation difference, but that's a matter of practice.

I think your problem might be the lack of shadowing - the reason why you see those immigrants who have been for 30 years in the US and still can't speak proper English to save their lives is because they never stop and listen. If you don't copy the patterns by natives, you won't develop the right contour.

>>76627560
>The writing system might as well be what makes you think they sound similar, because you have a pre-conception of what a U or a O might sound like in your language.
It's not an influence of the writing system. As I said, I'm aware of the IPA. All linguists agree that English [ʌ] as in "hut" and [ɑ] as in "hot" are not like Spanish [o] (or Spanish [u]). Yet my brain still cannot distinguish [ʌ] and [ɑ], hearing them both like a distorted [o].

>>76627560
>I think your problem might be the lack of shadowing - the reason why you see those immigrants who have been for 30 years in the US and still can't speak proper English to save their lives is because they never stop and listen. If you don't copy the patterns by natives, you won't develop the right contour.
It could be, but I'm not sure... Unlike many immigrants I barely speak my first language anymore (I mostly just do when I talk to my parents).

>>76627293
>The "que" there eludes me
there where? I'm not sure what you mean.

It does the exact same as "to" does in English.

Estás a aprender brasileiro? = Are you learning brazilian?
>no Que or To in both cases

Tenho "que" aprender = I have to learn
>remove "que"
Tenho aprender = I have learn

I have a lot to learn = Tenho muito que aprender OR Tenho muito a aprender.
the latter is still correct, but like you said it sounds less fluid and impractical, so noone uses it. its like sayin "a Egg" instead of "an egg"

"Tenho a aprender" by itself doesnt work, you gotta answer the question what do you have to learn
Tenho "isto" a aprender - I have "this" to learn
Tenho "bastante" a aprender - I have "much" to learn
but since its easier to say "Tenho que aprender isto" or "tenho que aprender bastante", people never use the "a" version
I confused myself while writing this, so Im sure I confused you to. Im sorry

>>76628750
He might be confused because the "que" in Portuguese "ter que" might be the only one of its kind. In Spanish, the "que" in "tener que" is definitely the only one of its kind.

Almost all of these "verb + something + infinitive" combinations use "a" or "de" (sometimes other prepositions too). Voy a morir. 'I'm going to die.' Debe de morir 'He's got to die'.

>>76608456
I've never even looked at a /pol/ thread. On the other hand, if you seriously think what I said is somehow edgy, you may be from reddit. It is trrue that once phone posting started, post grammar declined on the site. I am posting from one right now for reasons I can't discuss, and anyone who likes it better than using a PC is probably cancer. Either way that's no excuse and can't be the true reason.>>76608456

>>76628908
I literally don't even know what the BR guy means when he says commas seem like decoration here.
I think the way people use them here is largely fine.
What would be an example of grossly misused commas?
This seems like excessive autism to me.

Eesti or Suomi? Also how similar are they?

File: 1475520105375.jpg (338KB, 1369x1183px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 1369x1183px

>>76628908
>>76629048
It's just some neckbeard sliding from his """""battlestation"""""" in his basement next to his cum socks and piss jugs literally getting mad at mobile cellular devices. Pathetic.

>>76620693

whynotboth.jpg

Feel like people in the language learning community love to shit on things because they make the assumption it's being used as the only source while doing that is something practically no one does.

>>76628098
But do you speak English like you speak Spanish? If you use the same "personality" (for lack of a better term), you might have a slight block on adhering to new phonemes. Try impersonating some other people every now and then and those nuances will start to affect your own perception/pronunciation. Get a Trump speech and start to mimic:
"I am going to learn English, and lemme tell you this right now: it is going to be the BEST English you've ever heard. I am going to say hut and hot with such an AMAZING perfection you're gonna wish you were American too. Cause that's what America needs right now, we'll have everyone speaking it crispy and smooth, we'll build a great nation on perfect vowel distinction, and pronunciation, that I can promise."

Recently I've started to theorize the reason kids play pretend is to do exactly that, experimenting with different roles/personalities and getting a knack for intonation.

>>76629107
jesus christ why

>>76629107
Suomi is more aesthetic and spoken by more people

>>76629107
Estonian for maximum autism

>>76624873
Absolutely necessary when the 4th Reich emerges.

>>76630894
That'll be Arabic

File: 1483684342551.png (382KB, 700x475px) Image search: [Google]

382KB, 700x475px

>>76629048
>I literally don't even
You have to go back.

>>76620693

Good post, cпacибo

>>76624873
it's like english

http://prodota.ru/forum/index.php?s=2e7a0ca52abd554c13be3fbcb2a9ead2&showtopic=206015&page=259

/d2g/ here, could any russian learners please translate this for us?

>>76633282
to clarify just the posts with PD.XPEH, the owner

>>76629672
>Try impersonating some other people every now and then and those nuances will start to affect your own perception/pronunciation. Get a Trump speech and start to mimic:


FUGG, so dat iz what too much time on /pol did to me

>le ebin praise kekistan :DDDD

File: Syriac-manuscript_2.jpg (108KB, 720x540px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 720x540px

I may have posted this before, but I've seen posters saying they can't decide which M. E. language to learn, does anyone at all want to learn mine? It's like Hebrew, but not made up for political reasons in the octogenarians' lifetime.

>>76628908
I was not sarcastic, doesn't matter did you been there. It influenced you. Either way I do love it.

Praise kek.

I really want to listen to good spanish bands but they're few, especially compared to the native speaking population

hispanohablantes, por qué produceis musica tan horrorosa?

>>76638859
;_;

No tengo explicación, pero esa es la música que se vende en el mundo hispanohablante...

>produceis
producís

>>76639251
necesitaste corregirme? ;_;
estuve tan feliz para haber escrito todo correcto

>>76638859
No me gusta mucho el español (lo que hablo és suelamente portuñol) pero puedo recomendarte algunas des las canciones españolas que escucho:
- Chingon - Malagueña Salerosa
- Gorillaz - Latin Simone (Que Pasa Contigo)
- Los Chunkas - El Humahuaqueño
- Lole y Manuel - Tu Mirá

>>76638810
Except it hasn't in any way. I said things that are commonly stated outside the Internet and I have been here long before pol existed so I know when something has been "influenced" by it.

I want to learn german, so it would be easier for me to learn alsatian after, but in the same time I feel like learning spanish would be easier and more useful.

help

>>76637270
that's a nice looking script desu

>>76639251
>producís
auch, aquí diríamos producen ('ustedes producen')

>>76638859
what kind of music do you like?
desu I'm kinda ignorant regarding music, but here's a small random collection in spanish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwfsaGEj7PI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2JOD2Kc5Jw (or anything by 'Los Prisioneros')
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_N7ilk-bm4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku9OsY6twxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhCP9RzfXlY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRB46EpAzEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=177-s44MSVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w67-hlaUSIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovy3m37aBMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xf4meu-cXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzas_TSV7II

>>76640138
Why would you learn Alsatian?

>>76559675
the Selyan language

>people are talking in a foreign language near you
>it's a language you've learned!
>they're being mean thinking no one understands them
>you say something snarky to them and they feel super embarrassed since they weren't as clever as they thought
>you walk away triumphantly

Has this happened to any of you? I know it's petty, but I hope I get to do this someday.

Anyone here who learned Portuguese, how well can you read Spanish? I'd like to learn both but start with Portuguese.

>>76644495
Portuguese has a larger subset of phonemes, encompassing almost all of Spanish. So while the languages are mutually intelligible, Spanish speakers have a harder time figuring out Portuguese than the opposite. If you really intend learning both, starting with Portuguese will give you this advantage.

>>76644641
>Spanish speakers have a harder time figuring out Portuguese than the opposite
Portuguese is easy as fuck to figure out anyway

>>76644641
I know, but I'd like to hear how well a nonnative Portuguese learner understands Spanish. Would it not be different? They also have a minor differences in vocabulary and grammar. Don't most Brazilians learn both Portuguese and Spanish?

>>76638859
Have some from my country. Hope you like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GoEMXDImXY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYK-B6aQQOA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8vnKI4VurE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8lDMXk130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqqfPkbOcAE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98MCSZo2DFM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU6dfNLfOA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEBAM6b7GxA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjqGuyPEHsU

You might also want to monitor this thread. >>76644795

>>76645150
>Don't most Brazilians learn both Portuguese and Spanish?
No. We just speak portuñol, which most of the time is enough to communicate.

Obviously I can't give you the overview of a non-native learning, but yeah, you might not get the full advantage of cognates since some common Spanish words are only deductible for us because it resembles a more obscure Portuguese one.
On the other hand, both are Class 1 languages in terms of learning, so the less you think about it, the quicker you'll get it done. :3

>>76624409
Listen to the radio, keep doing it every day even if you don't get shit at first

Would it be strange for an American living in Florida to learn Castilian Spanish? (I'm originally from MA.) I'm more familiar with that accent than any Latin American ones since both my Spanish teachers in highschool were from Spain and I have a Spanish uncle in law.
I'd like to know what to expect if I speak with the "lisp" while talking to someone from Latin America. Will they assume that I'm a pretentious faggot?

>>76646280
>Will they assume that I'm a pretentious faggot?
no, not really, everyone here would just assume that you learned Spanish in Spain, had a Spaniard relative or something like that

Any good intermediate+ french sources lads? Been living in this country for 2 fucking years now and its an embarrassment that I'm not fluent in at least one of the languages.

>>76559675
Delete this picture

Any good Finnish resources?

should i learn german or russian?i know a bit of both and i can read them properly but i dont understand anything of course
im from memel so theres lots of german heritage and muh hail hidler x-DDDD but its 25% russian and i love kino and vysotsky
both languages sound good (literally) i dont know what to choose

>>76648816
Russian. In a couple of years you will be annexed anyway.

>>76644105
I am half-alsatian

>>76649947

Woof mon ami

>>76569575
you're lucky that you had proper language classes

all we had was some woman coming in to teach us how to count to 30 in italian once a month

File: 1427575263565.jpg (31KB, 456x320px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 456x320px

>can't pronounce anything not part of the Australian accent

>see something Japanese
>want to learn
>see something Chinese
>want to learn
And with every other language.

JUST

File: Flag_of_Alsace.svg.png (74KB, 739x492px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 739x492px

>>76650585
fuck off moron you know what I mean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace

>>76652629
It's just the famous english banter

SHIT! SHIT SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITT


How do you remember the vocabulary? I always forget, the 10/10 grammar without problems, but the fucking vocabulary....

File: 4.jpg (16KB, 500x461px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 500x461px

>>76651457

>>76651457
just settle on one or two for a while, unless your goal is getting A1 in twenty languages

>>76658270

Repition mainly. But creating artificial connections and logic in words can help you remember.

An example in the language I'm learning (Korean):

These are 2 ways to say goodbye in Korean:

안녕히가세요 (anyonghigaseyo)

and

안녕히게세요 (anyonghigaeseyo)

The only difference is 가 (ga) and 게 (gae)

First one is used when the speaker is staying, second when the speaker is leaving.

It was difficult for me to remember which one meant what because they're so similar, but now I remember it because 가 sounds like "ga" in Dutch which means "go".

So when I say 안녕히가네요 I pretend I'm telling the listener to "go!" while I (the speaker) stay, therefore this one is the one where the speaker stays.

>>76661752
hallo Jeroen

>>76658270
You have to review them everyday.

>>76662364

Wie is Jeroen

>>76643623
Mehmet is likely learning Spaniard Spanish anyway, so, vosotros producís.

>>76658270
Spaniards, do you use ustedes at all anymore? People learning Spanish as a second language are often taught that vosotros is "informal" and ustedes is formal in Spain, but I have literally never, ever heard a Spaniard use "ustedes". It seems like it's completely dead, or is it not?

File: fluent-foreverhow-to-learn-any-language-fast-and-never-forget-it-gabriel-wyner-1-638.jpg (111KB, 638x826px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 638x826px

Has anyone read this book? Thoughts on it?

>>76666448
No, but I can tl;dr it:

Use it or lose it.

>>76666448
>informal greetings
>Arabic has السلام عليكم instead of مرحبا or أهلا
From the looks of it, not much.

>>76666448
Have you read it?

The back of the book at least says it makes references to neuroscience and linguistics, which is mildly comforting.

I just found a free pirated copy online, so I'll read it now and tell you what I think.

>>76665857
they hardly use usted either. such is Spanish in the Iberian peninsula

>>76666912
Vietnamese xin chào is also very formal translationese.

That said, it could be the author had no say on what Harmony Books would use as the cover.

>>76665857

I would say it is a "respect formula" rather than a simple formal word.
It is used sometimes. With millennial shit (in)culture it is used much less now. You would still use it, for example, with certain figures like courts, the police, your boss in old fashioned businesses, teachers (in catholic or certain private schools...).

Just some years ago it was still used like you would use the German "Sie" (In contrast with "Du" which would be "tu"). It is probably the most equivalent system I can think of.

>>76667256
>I would say it is a "respect formula" rather than a simple formal word.
But you guys still conjugate for ustedes, right? As in, you don't say things like "en ese momento me lo dijisteis ustedes" (instead of "dijeron").

>>76667370

of course. That would sound retarded lol

>>76667474
By the way, how do you talk to your grandma? Do you use tú or usted?

And what about random people who're like 70 years old?

>>76667568

To my grandma I would use tú. Consider, however, that she used usted even with her parents. Things have changed.

To an old random person, and I being a young man, I would use "usted".

bumpito

1st of july tomorrow. Learnin Germin.

This Japanese stuff is tough work.