>most of the OG Europeans (Cro-Magnons) were brown skinned,

Are we sure about their phenotypes, or is it still based on that one La Brana sample?

Neolithic farmers actually hated the idea of mixing so much that even in Ireland they were practically pure. Later on, Indo-Europeans were on a raping spree and didn't care if they were fucking hunters or farmers so everything blended together and a bit later on we Khans came and fucked Indo-European and hunter women.

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>>53097932
>light skinned blondes with brown eyes

Wut? Blue eyes is from the Steppe too.

I read a similar statement about the swarthiness of the hunter gatherers today.

>The modern European gene pool was formed when three ancient populations mixed within the last 7,000 years, Nature journal reports.
Blue-eyed, swarthy hunters mingled with brown-eyed, pale skinned farmers as the latter swept into Europe from the Near East.

>Pigmentation genes carried by the hunters and farmers showed that, while the dark hair, brown eyes and pale skin of the early farmer would look familiar to us, the hunter-gatherers would stand out if we saw them on a street today.
"It really does look like the indigenous West European hunter gatherers had this striking combination of dark skin and blue eyes that doesn't exist any more," Prof Reich told BBC News.

>Dr Carles Lalueza-Fox, from the Institute of Evolutionary Biology (CSIC - UPF) in Barcelona, Spain, who was not involved with the research, told BBC News: "If you look at all the reconstructions of Mesolithic people on the internet, they are always depicted as fair skinned. And the farmers are sometimes depicted as dark-skinned newcomers to Europe. This shows the opposite."

We're all cucked by Middle Easterners tbf

I fucked your mother

simple as that

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>>53098006
>is it still based on that one La Brana sample?

Gay OP forgot to read the most important part:
>La Brana 1 shows genetic similarities to Scandinavians and also shared a common ancestor with people who lived in Siberia more than 20,000 years ago.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2546421/Blue-eyed-caveman-7-000-year-old-DNA-reveals-European-African-traits.html

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>>53098390
There is some confusion over the immigration waves. These swarthy "middle easterners" were R1B carriers.

>>53098665
2nd immigration wave from the steppe:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com.br/2009/05/light-pigmented-caucasoids-from.html

>>53098665

Ötzi was G.

>>53098475
>La Brana 1 shows genetic similarities to Scandinavians and also shared a common ancestor with people who lived in Siberia more than 20,000 years ago.

Yeah and all Europeans have a common African ancestor if we go far enough back in time.

Kalash people are mostly South Asians genetically who happened to retain the fair features of the Early Neolithical Farmers by staying isolated from the rest of the region. They are not some lost children of Europeans who diverge significantly from their neighbours. They are closer to a Dravidian than any European genetically.

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>>53099017

They are like 1/4 Andronovo.

>>53098096
Early farmers just greatly outnumbered the natives while the Indo Europeans didn't.

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>>53098665
>Otzi

pls. Pic related, a real Cro-Magnon.

Honestly, she looks Algerian.

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>>53099559
Would fugg desu, reminds me the filthy qt from The 13th Warrior

>>53099559
Why would they have look more Negroid, while on every PCA ENF-high and WHG-low groups like Italians and Greeks are slightly closer to SSA than NW Euros, which have more WHG and less ENF?

>>53099812

Cro-Magnon is a very broad concept. The first humans in Europe weren't WHG.

>>53099812
that's the key word, slightly!

>>53099812
that's the key word, slightly!

We remained close to niggers in terms of strenght genes but Germans got the flat big nose genes from niggers which occupied less space in the DNA memory so they are more distant.

>>53099277
Where are niggers on this map?

>>53099812
the accuracy of reconstructions aside, you do realize phenotype is controlled only by a few alleles, right?

>>53100179

Albania/Greece

>>53100233
no offense m8 but the only people who have extensive recent non-Caucasoid admixture in Europe are the Finns and the Russians who assimilated them. you should go back to siberia imo

>>53100336
Sorry?

Yes they have Mongol admxiture, not Sub Saharian Admxiture like you

>>53100397
I think you're confusing Greece for Italy m8, it's true sometimes Italy scores high on SSA though, unlike the Balkans

>>53099812
The first humans in Europe didn't look like modern day Europeans.

>>53100133
>blacks
>big noses

Their noses are short and wide. A real big nose is an Aborigine or Arabic nose.

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>>53100133
>>53100179
Yeah didn't mean to imply you = mulattos or even quadroons,in the grand scheme all Euros cluster very close together

>>53100461


they are wide as fuck m80

>>53100444
Sicilians are not Italians

>>53100461
Yeah, but some people always seem to assume that we descend from *modern day* SSAs, while SSas themselves have evolved too and aren't exactly the same as 70000 years ago, same fallacy as thinking we descend from chimps or other modern-day living apes, while we just have MRCAs with them

>>53100507
sorry but it is m8, also South, Central and even North Italy score more than the Balkans. sorry to burst your bubble, m8. at least you can play the blues well

>>53100336

I was gonna point out Gypsy admixture in Romania but then I remembered Gypsies are white and Caucasoid.

>>53100496
who are the light blue ones on top?

>>53100580
and SSAs themselves have West Eurasian admixture from more than one event apparently

>>53100640
Fuck off retard Padania is much whiter than any part of Greece we look lire Scandinavians, we are whiter than the Germans themselves

>>53100654
more so than your uralic ancestors for sure, m8. don't worry, i'm sure you'll find something else to take pride in

>>53100664
Sardinians
They almost completely lack the ANE component, which gives an "East shift" to others
>>53100703
Only some of them though? Because I'm sure there's tribes with 0% Neanderthal, while every non-African (and some Africans) has some
>>53100749
Gypsies are a guesstimated 20% Australoid though, and Australoids are the most distant from us

>>53100714
relax m8, we can compromise on you looking like dark Austrians

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Are Lithuanians the whitest?

>>53100809
How are Congo niggers so much east shifted?

>>53100749

I'm very proud that my Finno-Ugric ancestors conquered vast regions of Russia.

>>53100906
On this very PCA, pure SSA has a "fak" East shift on itself, this is one of the downsides of mapping multidimensional admixture models down to 2D

>>53100507
Never said they weren't wide, shit I'm black and I have a wide nose. But it's small compared to most of my white friends.

>>53101066
>"fak"
*"fake"

>>53100906
>>53101066
Isn't it because East Africans were the oldest people on the planet at some point?

>>53101161
See >>53100580
Even if sapiens came into existence there, the modern-day inhabitants have undergone evolution too in the meantime

>>53100809
>Gypsies

That's because of the fact that they're descended from Indians.

>Only some of them though? Because I'm sure there's tribes with 0% Neanderthal, while every non-African (and some Africans) has some

There haven't been any for a long time.

>The findings, published in the journal Science, suggests that about 3,000 years ago there was a huge wave of migration from Eurasia into Africa. This has left a genetic legacy, and the scientists believe up to 25% of the DNA of modern Africans can be traced back to this event. "Every single population for which we have data in Africa has a sizeable component of Eurasian ancestry," said Dr Andrea Manica, from the University of Cambridge, who carried out the research.

>"And it is also interesting to discover now that even sub-Saharan Africans have a bit (0.3-0.7%) of Neanderthal ancestry."

The Maasai have the most, up to 2%.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34479905

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/350/6262/820

>>53101233
Of course. The Khoisan are the oldest humans on the planet, and they look significantly more modern than the earliest Homo sapiens skulls, like Omo 1 or H. sapiens idaltu, with their large brows.

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Holy fuck you a lot of you guys are pseudo-tier, other know a little but are making vast assumptions or common misconceptions, I will explain what I know

Here is what actually happened

Europe arounf 12,000bc
>Western Hunter Gatherers(WHG) originally inhabit europe
>WHG have dark skin and light eyes
>Some variants like Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers have light skin eyes and hair

Phase 2
>Early European Farmers from Anatolia migrate into europe
>They have lighter skin and dark eyes and hair
>Note they are not completely similar to modern Middle easterners and resemble Sardinians more
>They begin to mix with WHG
>Around the same Eastern Hunter Gatherers (EHG) in eastern Europe mix with Caucasian Hunter Gathers
>CHG come from the caucuses mountains and had previously been isolated there by glaciers
>both EHG and CHG have a mix of dark and light hair, eyes and skin

Phase 3
>The mixing of CHG and EHG produce the Yamnaya culture
>They spread out across europe after there forest homeland degraded to steppe and mix with the mix of EEF and WHG

And that how it happened, if you have any questions I will gladly answer

>>53101743
>>WHG have dark skin and light eyes
>and light eyes
Do we have any clue about the frequency though?
I suppose there were also many HG with more "standard" brown eyes perhaps?

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>>53098665
Otzi is not a cro magnon but the descendant of Early european farmers who came from anatolia

>R1B carriers.
He carried haplogroup G not R1b

> These swarthy "middle easterners
Is this b8? It is well known that the middle eastern migrants had light skin, even lighter than many WHG. And no, they did not carry R1b, Otzi had haplogroup G as stated above

R1b was brought by Indo european Yamnaya from the east

Your post is complete disinformation

>>53101743
Here is a map to help visualize this

>>53101743

Pretty good. Yamna also went east to Siberia and China(Tarim mummies/Tocharians) btw. All Finno-Ugric people have CHG admixture because of intermarriage with Afanasievo Yamna, which Samoyeds didn't engage in so they don't have many PIE words either.

>>53101861
>frequency though
As for percentages I have none. My own intuition tells me there were probably plenty of brown eyed WHG, I know among there EHG cousins there was a diverse mix of Blue and Brown

>>53100809
what's ANE?

>>53102274
Ancient North Eurasian

>>53102274
Ancient North Eurasian, thought to originate somewhere between Finland and Siberia, came to Europe at about the same time as ENF (~10k years ago) and is interestingly also found in some Amerindians. Maybe those guys have something to do with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal'ta-Buret'_culture

>>53098475
>That fierce left paki girl.

>>53102274
>>53102274
ANE(Ancient North Eurasian) is a much older admixture than WHG, EEF, CHG etc

Its based of thethe "Malta boy" of siberia who was dated back to around 24000bc. Unlike other admixtures like WHG and EEF which are based on samples from around 5000bc, ANE is much older.

Its an admixture that links Europeans to native American groups as both share a decent amount.

Some believe the Yamnaya brought ANE to europe, I am not sure myself though

>>53102444

Karelians had 40% ANE 7000 years ago.

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>>53098475
>>53098220
>>53098710
>>53098665
I just wanted to make sure none of you take these posts seriously

They are made by a Brazilian Mediterranean who hates northern europeans and believes they are mixture of asians and Scandinavians etc. His hates seems to stem from the fact that many brazilians have native and african ancestry

He spread blatantly false info and believes the indo europeans entered europe from Turkey

Please remember who he is and disregard his nonsense

>>53102520
That makes sense imo, what are you trying to say?

>>53102702

They tested a hunter gatherer from Karelia and he was identical to the ones from Samara except he was R1a instead of R1b. Look it up.

>>53102702
>Always that same sample pool that has Czech and French but no German in it
REEEE, I hope newer ones will soon be used

>>53101743
do we know anything about the language of the EEF?

>>53102702
Tuscans have no western hunter gatherer admixture?

>>53102852
Even Nostratic, if it ever has existed, has already a much too high SNR to be accepted by most linguists - and that would have been spoken around 10kya, so going even further back is near impossible at that point

>>53102702
Informative post, thanks.

>>53102852
If we do know something, I have not heard about it, some say the basque language might be correlated to them but there is no hard evidence. Their language is mot likely lost

>>53102777
What are you trying to say though?

>>53102801
Yes, they never include Germany in these tests for some reason

>>53103053

It proves Yamna alone didn't bring it to Europe.

>>53102900
They probably do at a low rate but not in this test sample

>>53103053
German samples/groups are in Eurogenes, but since it's a commercial project I guess it's not held as credible by most researchers
But the "French/Czech" pool I often see in many tests is always the same, because all other nationalities that are there or absent always are the same, must be 2011 or older

>>53103008
>>53103053
cheers m8s

>>53103150
The people of Karelia and the ancestors to the Yamnaya seemed to have a lot of contact with one another. They probably received ANE from the same source

What puzzles me is what happened to the original EEF in Anatolia and where they received their ANE

>>53103254
>What happened

Luwians and Hitties invaded and they were both indo european speaking people, then myceneans conolized the coasts during the bronze age, then greeks in the iron age, then arabs and finally Turkik people.

Assyrians colonized the south eastern part too during the bronze age but I don't know how much different they were from the original anatolians genetically.

>>53103416

Poor farmers just can't farm in peace anywhere except Sardinian highlands.

>>53103254
>Anatolia and where they received their ANE
Pretty late (~1000 years ago) via original Turkics invading there I guess (modern day T*rks are about 10% Mongo on averagel too, so the ANE is probably from the same source)

>>53097932
Dude. All were brown before. Less sunlight means that they produce less melanin. Thus browns get white after a while.

>>53103416
But Greeks, Myceneans and Hittites were all indo european people who themselves probably had much EEF ancestry, and modern anatolians have little yamnaya, why would these groups give them ANE but not Yamnaya?

As well assyrians and arabs did not carry any ANE

I could see ANE coming from the turks but it certainly came long before them

>>53103486
We had to deal wth Carthaginians and Romans though

>>53103555

Dagestanis have very high ANE, just as high as Yamna but no WHG.

>>53103498
"ANE" is found throughout the Middle East and the Caucasus so that can't be the sole (or even the most important) source

>>53103690
You think it has something to do with a group of similar people? Do you have a theory of where the ANE came from in anatolia?

>>53103806

IIRC, Hatti and Hurrian languages were similar to Caucasian ones and they were wrecking the place even before IEs.

>>53103876
Interesting

>>53098096
>Neolithic farmers actually hated the idea of mixing so much that even in Ireland they were practically pure

I don't know what this is meant to mean desu

>>53103876
>The Hurrians spoke an ergative-agglutinative language conventionally called Hurrian, which is unrelated to neighbouring Semitic or Indo-European languages, and may have been a language isolate.

>The Iron Age Urartian language is closely related to or a direct descendant of Hurrian. Several notable Russian linguists, such as S. A. Starostin and V. V. Ivanov, have claimed that Hurrian and Hattic were related to the Northeast Caucasian languages.

Oh wow, this makes a lot of sense actually

>>53104092
Disregard it, its somebody projecting their modern fantasies on ancient people. The neolithic farmers were found to be 40 percent WHG anyway

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>>53101939
Bronze-age R1b were swarthy.

>>53100990
Conquer from what? Bears?

You just took up some empty space, to nigger around living like animals under bundles of twigs, dixit Tacitus.

>>53104092

Recently Irish skellies from 3000 and 2000 BC were DNA tested. 3000 BC was an essentially unmixed with anything along the way from Bulgaria to Ireland. 2000 BC were similar to modern Irish and came from the east.

>>53104182

Anatolia had about that much WHG admixture to begin with. It's not a fantasy that they had an entirely different attitude towards mixing than groups like IE who were far more inclusive, towards women at least.

>>53104376
>t's not a fantasy that they had an entirely different attitude towards mixing than groups like IE
This is complete speculation, the WHG had much smaller number than the EEF and we know they mixed because the group who most similar to ancient EEF, the Sardinia also has very high rates of ydna associated with WHG like haplogroup I2.

>>53104300

Complete fucking bullshit. The "Finns" Tacitus described were some retarded forestniggers from Sweden called skritfinnar because Swedes didn't understand they spoke some other language. Finno-Ugrics were always technologically advanced and warlike people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananyino_culture

>>53104528
I thought haplogroup I was associated with EEF?

>>53104649
It is associated with the original hunter gatherers but after EEF mixed with people in the balkans it later became associated with the EEF

The EEF seemed to mostly carry haplogroup G

>>53104599
>
No he actually described Finns. Not only Tacitus, I've seen another source 500 years later stating about the same thing.

>>53105058
>>53104649
>>53104599

Can we switch this discussion that doesnt have OP advertising information that isnt blatantly false?

Here's the new thread

>>53105187

>>53105187

>>53105187

>>53105058

Archaelogical evidence shows that he was wrong. People don't go from having a bronze age culture to not wearing clothes.

>>53105301
Can we bring the discussion to a thread without the disinformation in the OP? >>53105227

>>53104300

And how exactly would Tacitus have the faintest idea of what was going on in Finland at the time?