was ww2 germany actually really shit?

>>3174162

>muh Germany
>muh retarded
>muh can't into warfare
>muh blatant misrepresentation of History

Geeee i wonder who posted this. Nigel?

>>3174201
Brits don't care m8, its a jew.

>>3174217
Please don't justify the German hate here with your stormweenie shit.

I am as German as it gets and Support Full blown Zionism.

>>3174162
shaddup schlomo

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>>3174162

Agreed.besides what you said they apperantly havent heared of supply lines and logistics.
The most overrated thing about them must be their equipment tho.

early war they had terrible tanks and still were mostly armed with kar98k's,their light machine guns wasted too much ammo to be practical,the early war tanks had cardboard armor and shitty weapons while the late war tanks were expensive and unreliable,not to mention difficult to repair.in the end they somewha figured it out but then hitler decided to blow all resources on wunderwaffen.

>>3174162

They were actually one of the weakest enemies America has fought, they just get a lot of attention because of movies and CoD using the setting.

>>3174162
>early-war tanks were outdated garbage
>late-war tanks were overengineered garbage
>German """"""""""engineering""""""""""
>new equipment was provided to newly formed units with inexperienced troops
>older experienced units had to use day one tech and captured equipment until they were completely destroyed
>German""""""""""efficiency""""""""""
>the Blitzkrieg meme lasted only for 2 years out of 6 years of war
>German """"""""""tactics""""""""""

>>3174279
Forgot:
>infantry tactics were literally WW1 tier with bolt-action rifles and heavy focus on machine guns
>German """"""""""warfare""""""""""
>military was at no point fully motorized
>German """"""""""mobility""""""""""

>>3174253
>putting all resources into building more Panzer IVs and StuG IIIs
This is a stupid argument. Germany had a severe shortage of man in the second half of the war and had already difficulties having enough personnel to operate their wunderwaffles.

German tactics can be compared to an early game zerg-rush, attacking a unprepared enemy while they are not expecting it, bit the second they come across any real defenses they get immidiately halted.

>>3174224
I'm sure the Nazis would've been zionists too if it was a reliable way to make all the Jews leave

>>3174283
Guderian pioneered maneuver warfare you mongoloid. Probably the most important formalized (as in actually theorized and written about, not some spontaneous on the spot idea) development in military tactics. The Nazis were fucked up because large parts of the apparatus got politicized, but many of Europe's brightest lived and worked in Nazi Germany, just like any other country.

>>3174292

stugs were very cost-effective,same goes for hetzers.i must admit the panther wasnt awfully more expensive to make than the panzer 4,yey,but i rather meant ridiculous shit like the king tiger,jagdtiger,sturmtiger,elefant,maus prototypes and so on.

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>>3174310

>>3174363
king tigers were mechanically more relaible and easier to mantain than panthers...

>>3174770

but they were still extremely expensive and slow as fuck,even with better reliability they were an ineffective drain of resources

>>3174162
>>shitty infantry tactics that get beaten by leap-frogging americans
Actually, this is not true. German infantry tactics were far superior to those of the Americans and British who often refused to advance without artillery support and bitched and moaned like little babies whenever they took light casualties

>>3174609
is this a new timeline? Who's the American president? Is it Hillary?

>>3174887
Germany
>one officer per squad, once the officer is dead the squad has no idea what to do
America
>every soldier in the squad is trained to take command if his officer dies, combined with the highly effective fire and maneuver tactic
Yeah, no. Americans had VASTLY superior infantry tactics.

>>3174906
Yeah, the Airborne demonstrated this very well as you can see in Band of Brothers, Winters (the real one) often spoke of how well their tactics did against the SS who despite their reputation performed quite badly.

And if you read "D-Day through German eyes" there's many situations where the Squad leader dies and then they're just like WTF DO WE DO, leading to either a suicidal charge or retreat

>>3174162
The german millitary tactics are a meme:
>Aircraft
HOL'UP HANS JUST FLY AND THROW THE BOMBS RANDOMLY SO YOU MIGHT KILL SOMEBODY... OHH NEIN YOU WAS SHOT!!11 RETREAAT! RETREAAAT!!11
>Panzers (good meme)
HOL'UP HANS JUST DRIVE YOUR TANK FORWARD AS FAR AS YOU CAN AND HELMUT WILL SECURE YOU FROM THE AIR... AHH NEIN HELMUT WAS SHOT... RETREAT!111
(what is good balancing between light, medium, and heavy tanks? just make as much heavy big tanks as you can!!!)
>Navy
HOL' UP HANS TOGHETER WE ARE SWIMMING ON U-BOATS TO DESTROY SOME TRANSPORT SHIPS... AH NEIN THEY CAN ATUALLY DETECT AS ON THE RADAR!!! RETREAT, RETREAT!!!11

>>3174162
I heard in 1939 things got considerably worse than from before. Maybe because hitler was preparing for war or something idk. What I said might not be true I'm not entirely educated on the economics of pre war Germany.

>>3174906
>every soldier in the squad is trained to take command if his officer dies, combined with the highly effective fire and maneuver tactic
That's pretty interesting, anywhere I can read up on that?

>>3175019
Well from 1933-1936 exports dropped by 10% so if you're talking economics wise then yes they were kind of in the shitter by 1939.

>>3174770
Yeah they were perfectly viable machines
But god forbid if theres a bridge

did germany have ANY well fought battles during ww2?
seems like all they did was lose lose lose

>>3175300
Well battle of France was quite good. Eventhough /his/ will propably go on great lengths to blame it all on dumb luck.

>>3175588
>battle of France
>beating a bunch of retards with even older equipment than the germans had
>quite good
L M A O
F A M

>>3175300
Nah man they went to the gates of moscow by losing

>>3174162
>It's a "I'm so butthurt about /pol/ that I'm going to devalue the sacrifices and endured hardships my ancestors endured to beat Nazi Germany by implying the Nazis weren't actually that big of a deal or much of a threat out of spite" episode

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>>3175611

>>3175618
>I'm going to devalue the sacrifices and endured hardships my ancestors endured

lmao cringe af

>>3175815
>XD
fuck off.

>>3175830
my ancestors :)

>>3175300

well,the did faily well bum rush poland and france and beat vastly smaller and weaker countries too.but once against an actual capable foe they usually got fucked.

>>3175618

it was a sacrifice,but the UK and US combined didnt even lose as much as the UK alone in WW1.

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>>3176095
I'd also like to add perhaps it's because their doctrine doesn't really favour prolonged wars/large areas. Imo the reason why the Blitz worked in other countries was because they were fairly small and had good roads which German tanks could use + faster transport of supplies.
But then we look at Russia and North Africa, both of which turned out to be logistical nightmares due to the sheer size of the desert in Africa and the Rasputitsa season, poor roads, different railroad system and the insane amount of land the USSR possessed.
In a sense you could say Germany was the one who zerg rushed to victory, but that's just my 2 cents.

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>>3174162
They didn't do so bad against the Allies in Anzio and against the Americans at Hurtgen Forest, although you could chalk it up to the incompetence of Allied Command. Remember, the same guys who got their shit pushed in at Hurtgen Woods would end up holding their own in Bastogne so it couldn't have been that they were shit soldiers

>>3176144
Wait did allies have potato smasher grenades too? Or is that captured materiel?

A big overlooked part is the war industry itself.
The lack of full mechanization and the use of POW in war-essential production sounds pretty stupid on paper

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>>3176201
It's all captured, US Army units were in a pretty sorry state during the Battle of Hurtgen Forest

>>3176103
So?

>>3176113
Logistics also failed them in France 1944 when their railroads and fuel depots in central and western France were bombed to shit, and aircraft constantly strafed their supply columns.

>>3175618
/thread
i wonder where the /pol/lack touched OP

>>3174162
http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1499506494029.webm

>>3176144
>Hurtgen

https://youtu.be/yJ9ScgVoKAM?t=1447

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>>3176227

that means the germans werent nearly as threatening as they were back in 1914.WW1 could have been lost,WW2 was all about winning with as little casualties as possible.

>>3176583
i usually try to avoid insulting people on /his/, but you're either extremely ignorant, stupid or butthurt
which one is it?

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>>3174162
Hmm...

>>3174268
Bad b8

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>>3176662
>russian casualties mean germany was good
No.

>>3176662
Germans were bad, and Soviets were terrible.

>>3175618

they really were not,its all just propping them up to look better.whats more impressive,beating crack waffen-ss troops or a bunch of volksgrenadiers who trained for 3 weeks?It's like rommel on a larger scale.

>>3174162
>implies SAS were of any relevance
>says "allies" instead of "Americans" when talking about Normandy landings

Yep, OP is British
I love how they BTFO the shit out of you in 1940 to the point you had to be saved by frogs at Dunkirk

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>>3177100
WE WON THE WAR!

>>3174162
>shitty infantry tactics
nigger u what

>>3177074
Ah...
So you're saying all those Russians died fighting incompetent old men and child soldiers, and nobody actually faced off against the actual German army. Makes you wonder what all those Germans were doing during the war then.

>>3177100
>try and make an amphibious landing in france without american help at dieppe
>get utterly BTFO'd
Why are britbongs such cucks?

>>3177100

it was a pretty successful evacuation,there were just too many.the germans were the ones that won dunkirs,but they fucked up more and didnt calitalize on the vunerablity of the allies back then.

>>3177129

the russiansfought them,i meant the western allies.even then,the casualty rate was alright,about 3.1 when the soviets had barely any experienced officers left from the purges,had a largely conscripted and inexperienced army and were still recovering from the winter war.

>>3174283
They literally wrote the book on armored warfare you retard. The only reason they took france was BECAUSE of their rapid mobility.

>>3174283
>not being fully motorized means you can't have certain parts of your army that are completely motorized and highly maneuverable
>hurr

>>3174283
>what is blitzkrieg
the idea was to mobilize so fast the enemy could not effectively practice scorched earth resistance and gradually shift back their supply lines.

>>3174162
The western front Germans did pretty good considering they faced overwhelming numbers, complete air support, plentiful supplies and reinforcements, and being a bunch of heavily battered, demoralized ragtag units

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>>3174162
>ITT: Butthurt anglos and leftypol fags deny
>>3176662
>Just because they can't handle the fact that Germans absolutely destroyed them and it took the united effort of the rest of Europe to defeat them
Wew lad

>>3174609
>being the first to actually start Jewish settlement in Palestine

What fucking idiot wrote this. Jewish settlement started in the 1880's, this isn't even controversial. Only a braindead Arab would claim Zionism started in 1933.

Oh, hi rabbi.

>>3174321
The Nazis just used ideas that the us and Britain came up with in the 20s and 30s

>>3176144
American soldiers also outpaced their supply lines when they got to the hurtgen forest

>>3177131
Dieppe was a raid

>>3174896
>>3178102
At least read it first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

>>3175025
Imagination land
Every squad has a TL as do German squads

>>3177267
Hitler deliberately let them go off of Dunkirk with little to no harm in hopes he could call an end to the war. Just watch the last appeal to reason by the impartial truth.

>>3174162
Why there are many threads about kraut hating in /his/? is to trigger /pol/ or just anglo shitposting?

>>3178359
any history discussion has ww2 as the dominating topic, krauts were central in ww2, /pol/ likes krauts for what they did in ww2, so /his/ dislikes krauts to be different
also a lot of /int/ spillover

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>>3174162
It may have something to do with WW1 and WW2 Germany actually performing extraordinarily well on the battlefields. German strategy was lacking but their tactics most definitely not.

>>3174224
>I am as German as it gets and Support Full blown Zionism.
t. Cuck

>>3174609
He then realized he fucked up and had to ask the Arabs to drive them out, which sadly failed...

>>3177293
That was the British. Hitler even had their book translated into German.

>>3178375
So /his/ officially hates germans or is just a meme?

>>3178519

Hitler was a goddamn Zionist, you retard. He just wanted the Jews out of Germany, he didn't care if they had a homeland. His whole butthurt with Jews was that they acted as an insidious Fifth Column, not subject to the accountability of a nation-state. He offered to transfer Jews in the Reich and their belongings to Madagascar, but that plan was rekt when he fucked up and assumed Britain/France wouldn't care if he invaded Poland.

For fucks sake the germans werent bad, they just werent as good as they tend to be portrayed in the west and never actually had a chance of winning the war

>>3178354

but he had no qualms bombing them with stukas?the mercy of hitler at dunkirk is a stupid meme that needs to die.

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>>3178963

i think they do,but its not unjustified.

>>3179519
Right, it's not like collective guilt is completely unjust to millions of innocents...
Where are you from? I'm sure your country has done a lot of shit you should now be happy to be held responsible for.

Also
>Arguing with propaganda posters

>>3174162
It was shit, but not for the reasons you are saying. Their military discipline and tactics were as good or usually better than anyone in the war.
Thier meme economy was broken though, and their homeland people were already feeling depriveations by 1940, which lead to more slave labor and exploiting of the occupied territories which for some magical reason led to worse conditions all around. Which lead to the retarded perception they needed to expand even more even faster before it all collapsed.
Over the years and during the time thier have been many that were superficially impressed with what the Nazis did and thier ideology, but if you actully look into it, it was a broken system, even by 1936~37 their ecomany was going to be fucked at least a little by thier unbalanced industry and fiscal policies, it just wasn't clear yet

>>3179680

germany

>>3179709
Also hasst du dich selber für etwas was du nicht getan hast? Klingt logisch.

>>3174162
>>lets the allies land thousands of troops on a beach they controlled for years
Honestly, how did that happen though?

>>3179750
Spies and false information IIRC

We showed you what real modern warfare was at the time.
The fuck are you on about, it took half the world to subdue and even then it was extremly hard for you.
again, the fuck are you on about you little cuck.
What german pilots did in dogfights are still the stuff for legends among pilots. even the RAF was dumbfounded and amazed on what german pilots did in the cockpit.
And why wouldnt we "overuse" machineguns, we had the best of the best and it was extremly effective to just hail down bullets from a bunker.

>>3179780
LARP alert!

>>3179787
But I am german, how could I larp here?
Theres plenty of books on how the german pilots amazed anyone they encountered. RAF started mimicking german tactics after a while too.
Ever read soem scanned newspapers from the beginnings of the german offensive? like Uk papers, yankee papers etc?
guess not.

>>3179799
Many German pilots fared well because
1. Aces weren't sent home to train new pilots
2. There were far more allied planes than German ones
3. The Soviets fucked up badly during Barbarossa
The rather inexperienced new pilots that were inevitably needed later on usually fared badly against the Allied pilots, and German losses were high. Stop with that Wehraboo/Superhuman bs, Germans did well on occasions, but often not.
t. German

>>3179516
No. Hitler didn't want war with the allies, hence the reason he let the British go at Dunkirk. Unfortunately they were allied with Poland who forced Hitlers hand after slaughtering German minorities in Danzig.

>>3179867
>Hitler didn't want war with the allies,
What did hilter want?

>>3179879
continue bullying small countries to expand in preparation for the big prize thats the european part of USSR

>>3179879
>>3179889
He wanted Peace, not war

>>3179889
>plz no war
>just let me fuck over these guys

>>3179879
Peace with the Brits, englands as the naval power and germany as the land power.

Brits and germans are basically brothers.

>>3179895
rubbish
>>3179896
he was an aggressor that thought he can do the same he did with kekkoslovakia, austria, remilitarization of rhineland

so in a sense he didnt want war, he wanted to force his will on others without western interference, he gambled, he lost

>>3179921
He wanted Germany back in a strong position as he felt (like most germans at the time) that germany got extemly fucked over by the winning factions of ww1. We didnt fuck up everything alone, there werent 2 germans front bombing each other. Germany in general had nothing to do with the outbreak of ww1. were not innocent but we were just part of it, like the rest of europe.
and you probably mean ((((((((((western))))))))))))) interference.

this is not a video game, airfields guarded by supply train personel isnt an achievement

their infantry tactics are still taught in militaryschools

their airforce made a number of huge mistakes, thanks to a fat drugaddict

they fucked up there yea

bombs alone dont get anything done

the germany military is often pictured as it was the panzer divisions only, which makes sense since after 1941 the germans were already bleeding dry and if they wanted to be anything done, they needed the panzers to show up and deliver a punch, but the reality is the majority of their forces were infantry divisions, not very well equiped, not very well supplied and certainly not capable of conducting more than defense (according to themselfs, since they "rated" their own forces when planning for operations)

>>3179934
>Germany in general had nothing to do with the outbreak of ww1.
I'm not an expert but isn't that kind of bullshit? My understanding is the tensions were so high that if it wasn't one thing, it was going to be another

>>3179934
this is american tier bullshit, exterminating slavs from the steppes is not getting back into great positions, some pretty sinister plans were made to take land that was never german

and then the holocaust, he was a mentally ill midget who germans considered jesus himself

>>3174253
>their light machine guns wasted too much ammo to be practical
It might've been a doctrine thing but wasn't the early war german machine gun really damn effective?
I know the MG42 is a meme weapon that uses up way to much ammo but the MG34 was pretty good. With easily switchable barrels and all that.

>>3179963
Yes it was Hitlers number 1 prio to invade russia.

Have you actually ever studied history or are you just talking out of your ass?

>holocaust meme

fabricated bullshit to make Israel possible.

NEXT!

>>3179953
tensions were really high but pretty much every euro country participating got pulled into it to monarchy shennigans and one retarded serb.
It was a retarded war who destroyed europe so bad were still "recovering"

ww1 was just a gigantic clusterfuck of allies, treaties and even more retarded monarchs, simple as that. its no countries fault really.
>>3180035
Germans used the MGs better than the rest I guess, they wrote whole tactics books about machine gun corps and their support infrantry.
It was indeed highly effective for holding ground and supressing movement. It was more of an option to open a path for infantry then getting kills.

>>3180035
The MG 42 was the same weapon as the 34, just cheaper to produce and easier to maintain (switchable barrels, as you said, for example), both had a very high rate of fire.

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>>3180057
>>holocaust meme
>fabricated bullshit to make Israel possible.
>NEXT!

I'd rather not make you throw a wobbler over the people killed by the nazi regime but you cannot just ignore the holocaust and systematic murder of people by nazi Germany

>>3180091
You keep just posting shit that can easily be fake or true. why should i believe that. its fucking IMPOSSIBLE to gas so many people in that timeframe. Im not saying there was no systematic killing or terror over other nations.
That evil 6 million poor jewish toddlers who got raped gased and turned into lamps meme is tiring.
It was all a fabrication to strenghten the israel sentiment.

NEXT3 !

>>3180105
But you didn't respond to any of the questions posed by the image

>>3180105
>6 million people got gassed

not every Jew died in the gas chambers

NEXT!

>>3180108
Bruh do you even holocaust denial?

>>3180108
But you didnt even read what I wrote. Ive seen the pic, ive seen the questions. half of them can be easly made up others differently explained.
And i never denied the holocaust in its whole.
I said it was extremly blown up and parts fabricated to fit the agenda/narrative.

Comprende? Im not even a naziboo, im just saying that the demonizing of germany is out of hand and its clearly to be traced to jewish globalist and their affiliates.

>>3179867
Danzig didn't belong to Poland. It was a Free City state.

>>3179749
nein,ich denke eher mehr länder sollten so sein wie deutschland und mehr an ihre schlechte vergangenheit denken.

>>3179867

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXYij5JxC-M

>>3180157
Klar, aber du (ich glaube das warst du) hast geschrieben dass Hass auf Deutschland gerechtfertigt sei, ist es heute aber auf jeden Fall nicht.

>>3180057
follow your leader shitstain

>>3180157
Brudi, ich bitte dich. Hör auf so ein kriecherisches Bückstück zu sein.
Uns trifft keinerlei Schuld, die Hälfte der "Schreckenstaten" von Deutschland sind erstunken und erlogen.

Wir denken nicht an unsere schlechte Vergangenheit, wir sind genötigt, es wird uns die Kehle runtergeprügelt, die ganze Scheisse ist nur dazu da um Deutschland klein zu halten. Patriotismus ist nicht schlechtes, Stolz auf seine Nation und Mitbürger zu sein auch nicht.
Genau das wird uns aber von Kindesbeinen an suggeriert.

Komm mal klar.

>>3179934

I agree,but they were the enablers

>hey austria,we will back you no matter what

>>3178354
>>3179867

>captured BEF soldiers beaten to death by German guards
>German guards kick over water that had been left out by civilians for the marching prisoners to drink
>Hitler was merciful and let them go

Fuck off

>>3180144
Why do Jews want globalism?

>>3180176
Not a nazi, just a proud german with a keen interest in history and all the bullshit that comes with it. I come from a military family with a lot of family dying in the Wehrmacht or even before that.
And I can tell you, most of my family werent even nazis, just germans who followed orders.
The only thing I have in common with the nazis is my burning hatred for anything communism.

>>3176769
Well they wrecked Europe and the Soviets lost more than 3 times as many men before actually defeating them.
US joined late to the party.

>>3180071
>>3180035

notice how i said as a LIGHT machine gun the high RoF for both the 34 and 42 made them unpreactical.the 34 fired 750-900rpm and the 42 ~1200rpm,your little 50round drums will run out quickly.as heavy mgs with tripod and beltfeeding they were good,but the ammo was still quickly chewed up and the barrels need to be changed often,for that kind of sustained fire the older allied watercooled guns were actually not that bad.

>>3179867

>German minorities in Danzig.
>1929 census shows Danzig as 95% German

What did they mean by this?

>>3174162
Where does the meme of "roman empire stronk" come from?
Apart from winning against a few non-factor tribes they lost absolutely horribly in nearly every battle during the wars.
>leave your towns and borders undefended so the celts can raid it all
>shitty infantry tactics that get beaten by shit-covered germanics
>shitty navy that gets demolished by a couple galleys
>lets the barbarians land thousands of troops on a riverside they controlled for years
>the "smart" cannae tactic lets people sit in defensive positions that get flanked to hell

Face it, romans never had a chance to win this because they can't into warfare and are generally retarded.

>>3180185
youd know then that just following orders are not a valid excuse of killing civilians on purpose

>>3180192
This. People who use the term "Danzig massacre" should be automatically banned. They don't know enough about history to discuss it.

>>3180198
For a lot of soldiers it is. as sad as it is. you dont know much about military.

>>3180198
Literally every relevant faction on WW2 did that.
Except France.

>>3174858
>slow as fuck
nice WoT education, the KT had higher off road speeds than a T-34, but shorter range.

>>3174906
>one officer per squad, once the officer is dead the squad has no idea what to do
this is just plain wrong,initially German troops were the best trained and led force in the world, only by 44 had the training and experience deteriorated below allied standards. And even at that point Wehrmacht and SS troops were trained for independent decision making and taking the initiative. Also a squad was lead by an NCO at best you dumb fuck

>>3180209

you can butcher them as much as you like as long as you win the war and break their fighting spirit.

>>3178085
>at Germans absolutely destroyed them and it took the united effort of the rest of Europe to defeat them
You say that like it's something to be proud of that the Nazis completely fucked themselves on the diplomatic front.

The Germans were simply being sneaky, especially the way they bum rushed the soviets even after agreeing not too. Once these economies switched to war time footing Germany was thoroughly fucked

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>>3180178
>Stolz auf seine Nation
>Stolz auf eine Nation voller Neger und Musel
Ein echtes Deutschland existiert doch schon lange nicht mehr da die Juden uns seit Kriegsende mit Negern überladen haben.

>>3180185
>just followed orders
>muh clean whermacht
nice try hans but you and your family are nazis

>>3180516

Unironically this,would the germans have properly declared war like in WW1 they wouldnt have stood a chance facing a ready enemy.

>>3179134

same could be said about soviets,they always are said to be absolutely terrible when the military deaths are "only" twice as high as the german ones.before like the chinese their civilians got quite literally fucked tho.

>>3174906
Not really, initially American infantry tactics were overcomplicated and relied on multiple teams whereas the Germans were much simplistic in their approach. Alot of times they'd just wind up being pinned down and unable to move. It's alot harder to suppress with a 20 round BAR anyways.

>>3180182
Lebensraum.

>>3176662
>M-MUH KAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Total war is about all resources including manpower fuckboi. The Union won the American civil war due to its industrial economy and ability to raise larger armies and constantly keep on the offensive, bleeding the south dry. The Germans lost WW2 because they were bled dry in resources.

>>3180682
Nigger, you put a space after commas and punctuation. All your posts are such textual clusterfucks.

>>3180516
>You say that like it's something to be proud of that the Nazis completely fucked themselves on the diplomatic front.
>T-t-they were just being sneaky
T. A nigger who knows nothing about Hitler's diplomacy lmao he tried just about every measure to avoid war with Poland but those sorry sacks just had to bicker over Danzig and try to take over the industrial center of Czechoslovakia
>>3180730
>Have less manpower
>Less resources
>Still completely dominate the field of battle despite having Italy as an Ally and waging war on multiple fronts
Maybe if you put down the bong once in awhile you would realize that the disproportionate amount of casualties the Germans inflicted on everyone was due to management of resources not just sheer amount
>Union won because of superior industrial capacity
The Union won because it had a near unlimited amount of poor Irish people to exploit and couldn't conquer a dirt shit poor agrarian society in open war for 4 years.

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>>3181425
>lmao he tried just about every measure to avoid war

>>3181576
Brainlet detected, before the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact he was as anti war as it got. Afterwards was a different story

>>3181598
>Before he started a World War he was anti war, when he started it he was pro war
>Calling others brainlet
Lmao

>>3181637
>Hitler started the war meme
Lmao brainlet , he was anti war until Poland, before that he only took back lands from Austria and Czechoslovakia that were German lands until the treaty of Versailles split up the country, Austria and Czechoslovakia were very oppressive towards the German minority due to both of them being split apart by ethnic tensions which the government tried to crack down on. Edvard Benes was especially oppressive towards the slovaks and Germans within his country so Germany occupied the country to ensure civil war didn't break out and the government couldn't crack down on ethnic minorites. Tensions began with Poland after Poland tried to occupy the northern territory of the country which was it's industrial center (and problem over the Free City of Danzig which both the Germans and Polish wanted).

It wasn't until after all of this that Hitler was pro war. Before that he simply wanted to unify Germany and become an industrial super power. After Dunkirk he also made repeated offers for peace with the British

>>3181738
Yes yes blabla and Barbarossa, fall gelb and the declaration of war on the usa, the yugoslavia campaign, the attacks on denmark and norway, on the netherlands and belgium and the occupation of northern italy and the attack on greece and the north africa campaign were all defensive wars

Makes you wonder, why didn't Hitler get the nobel peace prize?

>>3181425
>P-Poland started it!
Spotted the stormcuck

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Why are there so many lefties on /his/?
Disgusting desu.

>>3181936
Because you seem to consider everyone who isn't a Stormfaggot a leftie.

>>3174253
>>3180035
The MG3 is basically a slightly modified MG42 and is still used today by a lot of countries including Germany
You can shit on German WWII equipment all you want, but the MG's were one of few things they got right

>>3181773
>Bla bla *rants about geopolitical warfare*
Truly the intellectual /his/ deserves. Germany invaded Norway because The French and British were openly talking about it as well, and North Africa was due to Italians trying to take back Ethiopians and , being Italians, needing help. Belgium and the Netherlands were pro Ally and in order for Germany to.invade France it needed to go trough both countries.
>Declaring war on the US
Probably because he knew Roosevelt was hawkish as fuck and was going to arm the allies
>>3181810
Spotted the brainlet , war is more complicated than good guy vs bad guy

>>3182170
Don't know man, if there's someone who exterminates civilians on an industrial scale and oppresses his and other nations you could possibly call him the bad guy.

"Geopolitical warfare" lel absolutely unnecessary wars started by the autism of Hitler and his Nazi gang

>>3174321
>>3178179
Germans had been practicing maneuvre warfare since at least the 16th century.

>>3174321
The soviets theoretically had thought about "blitzkrieg" way before the germans, they called it deep penetrations and they practiced on your mother.

>>3182195
>call him the bad guy.
Depends on what you define bad as being. Fascists sure think he was good. It's almost like judging history from a good vs evil perspective only clouds judgement... You know Hitler wanted to just send all the Jews to Israel if he could avoid war as well right? Then openly said that if he couldn't then there was the Final Solution?
>Lel absolutely unnecessary because lol Hitler did it for no reason

P S E U D
S
E
U
D
As I already said, it was more complicated than just
>Dude we should go to war breh

>>3182195
Although desu with your syntax , I can't imagine you have the IQ to grasp the complexity of war that goes beyond "dude just go to war lmao"

>>3182253
>Lol whether killing innocent children, women, elderly and men is evil or not is to be determined individually
Fuck off to >>>/pol/

>>3182311
>He thinks I think killing women and children is moral
No, but war is war.
>>>/Tumblr/
And let's be honest all those starving Indians, Vietnamese, and bombed Japanese and German children that were intentionally targeted doesn't make the allies any more moral in this regard than the communists or fascists. War is war. History is History. Hitler didn't start the war, the Polish did. That doesn't make me a Nazi. Hitler's wars weren't unnecessary to the preservation of fascism and from the perspective of fascists the war was necessary. That doesn't make me a fascist.

The fact that you can't grasp this means you need to lurkmoar and read more philisophy. A totally neutral perspective on history is absolutely required if you want to be intellectually fair.

>>3181425
>lmao he tried just about every measure to avoid war with Poland but those sorry sacks just had to bicker over Danzig
Stupid Poles not wanting to surrender a Danzig corridor and become a landlocked country, Hitler offered them tons of concessions.

>>3182433
>Stupid Poles not wanting to surrender a Danzig corridor and become a landlocked countr
>Let's give Poles an almost completely German land just so they can have sea access
Wew lad, there is literally nothing wrong with being land locked

>>3182195
>AaaDon't know man, if there's someone who exterminates civilians on an industrial scale and oppresses his and other nations you could possibly call him the bad guy.

What do you call a nation which drops high explosives, and incendiaries on civilians on an industrial scale, tests atomic weapons on civilians, practices involuntary covert human experimentation and oppresses it's former slave underclass?

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>>3182635
the winner

>>3182646
You bet your ass.

>>3182646
>>3182657
Kek
>>3182635
I don't call them good guys but there's a difference between the atrocities commited by the Americans and those commited by the Nazis in WW2, if you don't see that, you're delusional. The only thing even closely comparable that the Americans did was the bombing of civilians in WW2 but at least it had an effect on the war and therefore a reason.
Most of the atrocities commited by the Nazis were just pure evil.

>>3182961
>between the atrocities commited by the Americans and those commited by the Nazis in WW2, if you don't see that, you're delusional.
>Declare war against country
>Send them to internment camps
>Genocide them
Americans did this too, not only that but they firebombed AND nuked civilian populations. British refused to give aid to Indians who then starved due their scorched Earth policies and blockades. French similarly starved the Vietnamese.

The Germans were just the most efficient at killing their minorities. Let's not even begin with the Russians, they were starving Ukrainians before the war even began

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>>3182961
>The only thing even closely comparable that the Americans did was the bombing of civilians in WW2 but at least it had an effect on the war and therefore a reason.
>Most of the atrocities commited by the Nazis were just pure evil.
I don't understand how you could hold such cognitive dissonance
Both sides committed terrible things and they justified them by saying "it's war", and to be entirely fair, that is war.
It's terrible, but the same motivation the American had to do things to the Germans is the same motivation the Germans had to do to others. In both of their minds it was a necessary action to bring an end to the war.

>>3182342
>Hitler didn't start the war, the Polish did.
Say what now?

>>3182587
If living in Germany was so important to Germans why didn't they just move to Germany? Poland had zero reason to trust Hitler after his treatment of Czechoslovakia.

>>3183416
CZ literally wanted to be part of Germany.

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>4 Shermans = 1 Tig-

>>3183472
I remember hearing that the Americans only had three tiger engagements during the entire course of the war.
>found it
https://youtu.be/bNjp_4jY8pY?t=28m53s

>>3183428
That is why the Czechs decided to assassinate Heydrich.

>>3182234

True. Zhukov did blitzkrieg warfare against the Japs army before Poland was invaded by the Germans

>>3183416
>If living in Germany was so important to Germans why didn't they just move to Germany?
Because Germany as an entity existed before it being broken up by the treaty of Versailles? On top of that , maybe Germans wanted the country they fought the revolution of 1848, invaded France and Denmark for? The German Unification process was a fiasco in itself and Germans broken up and given to France and Czechoslovakia did not forget it
>Poland had zero reason to trust Hitler after what he did to the Czechs
Edvard Benes was actively oppressing Germans and Slovaks in the country, and after heavily arming the country for war Hitler invaded and deposed him.Hitler actually allowed Poland to annex lands from Czechoslovakia (while simultaneously repelling them from annexing certain area)
>>3183428
Only the Sudentland which was originally a German land given away from the Treaty of Versailles. The Slovaks especially wanted independence from the Czechs. This was done in hopes of Poland giving the mostly German lands it possessed.

>>3185060
>This was done in hopes of Poland giving the mostly German lands it possessed.
Is meant to end the second the second paragraph

>>3183398
T b h, Poles and Germans hated each other so it's hard to blame one or the other for the war, but in my opinion it was the Polish, Hitler was fairly reasonable with them and they were mostly bickering about sea access in Danzig even while Hitler allowed them to annex parts of Czechoslovakia. The border skirmishes aren't clearly It's not like Hitler particularly liked the faction of the National Socialists who were about "muh righftul prussian clay" anyways, as they hated him for being a poor son of an austrian farmer.

>>3183671
But they didnt? The decision to kill Heydrich was made by the British. First of all Heydrich was a very efficient ruler who had won over the Czech ruling class and secondly they were speculating that in case of an assassinatino the German leadership would set their revenge on the Czech population which in turn would alienate them from the Germans and basically revert Heydrichs achievements of winning over the population. Which is exactly wjat happened.

>>3185081
>Czech ruling class
sorry, should have been working class

>>3185080
>The border skirmishes aren't clearly
*Instigated by German Agression only

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>>3185081
Eternal Anglo strikes again. First they put Afrikaaners in concentration camps during the second Anglo boer, then subjugate German lands to oppression by carving up Germany at the end of WW1, now THIS.

What the FUCK is there problem?

>>3185060
>and after heavily arming the country for war Hitler invaded and deposed him
Yep because if the Czechs wanted war they would do it after surrendering their fortified and industrialized border regions to the Germans. Do you have any source for this claim that the Czechs were planning to invade Germany in 1939?

>>3185121
>First they put Afrikaaners in concentration camps
as if that was the first thing they pulled. doing underhanded shit like has been their m.o. throughout history, the problem here though lies with the germans for taking the bait. anyway ultimately neither party profited; the germans lost the war, the british de facto lost the war as well and as for the czechs, at least they profited from the genocide committed against the germans because they got to keep their land but then they became communists and today they have to go over to germany and other western countries to work as prostitutes so ultimately they lost as well, even their dignity. so it all worked out very well for everyone involved.

>>3174363
>germany switches to only using stugs during the war.
>they are now not only outnumbered but outmaneuvered and outgunned too
Wow good plan.

>>3185081
>The decision to kill Heydrich was made by the British.
Decision came from Czech gov. in exile, not the British. Operation itself enjoyed support of local population which gave their lives for it's success.

>alienate them from the Germans
They were already "alienated". Heydrichiad only aggravated them

>a very efficient ruler who had won over the Czech ruling class
Ruling or working class, that's just plain bullshit. "Pacification" is the word you are looking for.

>>3185179
this is mostly czech post war propaganda though. the czech gov. couldn't do shit without british resources and approval. and no, the lower classes weren't alienated. though it goes against the idealistic myths of "le strong resistance one nation stands as one" especially lower class people generally don't give a fuck and look out to survive primarily. as long as food is guarenteed the whole resistance thing is something for the bourgeois and never the peasant. germans under heydrich destroyed the black market, brought in diversions for the population, brought in limited social security. that was enough to guarentee continued efficient production of armaments.

>>3185195
>this is mostly czech post war propaganda though. the czech gov. couldn't do shit without british resources and approval
Moravec had the Idea, Benes approved it and asked Brits to lend him the resources and the Brits approved. I don't see how anything of this is propaganda.

>that was enough
Actually it wasn't, there were plenty of executions and people sent to the CCs. Whip is as much important as the sugar.

>germans under heydrich destroyed the black market
On the contrary, black and gray economy boomed, as they were now politically motivated.

>and no, the lower classes weren't alienated
Yes, they were. No one wanted Germans there, most of people hated them. They just were too cowardly to actively resist.

>>3185060
Wow, we are reaching peaks of stupidity now. So now everyone except the Germans were the aggressors? Poles, Czechs, everyone wanted to attack poor Germany. Apparently having your own army is already a potential threat to Germany so it's okay if Germans invade anyone who even tries to form an army.
Do you even read yourself? Naziboos are possibly the most dishonest, lying pieces of shit I've ever seen. Even the Commiboos are better.

>>3185135
>Do you have any source for this claim that the Czechs were planning to invade Germany in 1939?
Yes, the fact that they were actively arming themselves and centralizing power because they had two ethnic minorites who wanted to secede?

>>3185282
>So now everyone except the Germans were the aggressors?
No?
>Long angry rant about how anyone who doesn't think that Hitler and the nazis were blood sucking satanic cultists is a wehraboo
>>>/co/
>>>/leddit/
Do you even into history? Because it seems like you're just getting butthurt about facts you've never heard of. Germans lost WW 1 and had ethnic enclaves separated from the main country that were , in fact, largely oppressed by the people who inherited it. There was such a fear around Danzig leading to a war between Poland and Germany that it was declared a free city under League of Nations protection. I never said
>Hurr Hitler did nothing wrong
I'm just presenting facts that your 2 dimensional view on history can't handle apparently

>>3185472
Which somehow proves Czechoslovakia had intention to attack Germany, despite being recently deprived of significant portion of their territory?

Just stop posting, you are embarrasing yourself.

>>3185476
You are not presenting any facts.

>There was such a fear around Danzig leading to a war between Poland and Germany that it was declared a free city under League of Nations protection
This wasn't the reason why Danzig was declared a Free City.

>>3183054
No
the murricans,brits and soviets killed enemies due to retaliation and due to doctrines in total war
the germans killed people solely because they view them as inferior and find it their task to exterminate them

>>3185476
>largely oppressed by the people who inherited it

How exactely? German occupation of Sudetland and the German terrorism caused more harm to German minority than the whole reign of the First Czechoslovak Republic.

>>3180209
murrican detected, stay savage, barbarian

>>3185480
Which somehow proves Czechoslovakia had intention to attack Germany
>Violently oppress ethnic minorites
>Begin arming heavily to make sure neither the Czechs nor the Slovaks gain any traction and stay afraid of the government
>Lie to the public claiming that the Germans were secretly mobilizing , giving Benes the excuse to draft 150,000 new soldier
>Czech soldiers go into the Sudentland to occupy it
>Heinlein's and Benes' men clash
>100,000 or so Germans flee because of violence
>Benes declares general mobilization of 1.2 million Czech reservists
>Hitler annexes Sudentland before they can organize
>Hitler is the bad guy
Do you really think Hitler just got away with invading the country because neither the French or British hated him enough? The French were not too pleased about Benes' treatment of the ethnic Germans either.

It's almost like history is more complicated than what you see on television.

>>3185496
>the germans killed people solely because they view them as inferior and find it their task to
>When the propoganda goes this deep
Not every German in the army was a member of the gestapo, Christ Almighty

>>3185503
>How exactly?
Beaten, had their lands seized, were generally targeted.
>German terrorism
>Terrorism
Wew lad

>>3185491
The reason it wasn't just given to Poland and was made a free city was for this reason actually

>>3185519
yeah,the heer and wehrmacht was completely compliant or in the policy in terrorizing civies

>>3185535
not*

>>3185535
What kind of word salad is this? Put down the bong, faggot, and come back to thread in a few hours

>>3185525
>Beaten, had their lands seized, were generally targeted.
Source is where?

>German terrorism
>Terrorism
???

>>3185516
>Lie to the public claiming that the Germans were secretly mobilizing , giving Benes the excuse to draft 150,000 new soldier
Before that: Henlein meets Hitler and later demands autonomy for Sudeten Germans.

>also, ignoring all diplomatic notes demanding more and more from Czechoslovakia
>Benes' ultimately agrees to grant Germans independence
>Hitler doesn't care anymore and demands the whole Sudetenland
>Munich happens
>it's still not enough and 5 months later Hitler invades Czechoslovakia anyway

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>>3185560
>Source is where?
Anywhere? Who are these people saying that ethnic Germans didn't have their lands seized in Poland and Czechoslovakia , and were never beaten and hated by most of the people who received them? Wow ethnic tensions im central Europe what a shock that's definitely never happened before

>>3185530
No. It wasn't given to Poland because 90-95% of Danzig citizen were Germans.

>>3174162
This was pretty good bait OP

>Goering: Sup, Hacha, we bomb Prague if you don't submit
Germans were such peace-loving people.

>>3185516
>Violently oppress ethnic minorites
Germans were violently oppressed by other Germans
>Begin arming heavily to make sure neither the Czechs nor the Slovaks gain any traction and stay afraid of the government
???
>Lie to the public claiming that the Germans were secretly mobilizing , giving Benes the excuse to draft 150,000 new soldier
Yup, Fall Gunn did not exist
>Czech soldiers go into the Sudentland to occupy it
..And prevent German terrorists from harming locals
>100,000 or so Germans flee because of violence
Source?
>Hitler annexes Sudentland before they can organize
Hitler annexes Sudetland because he threatened rest of Europe with total war.

>The French were not too pleased about Benes' treatment of the ethnic Germans either.
Source? Only objections I've heard of came from London.

>It's almost like history is more complicated than what you see on television.
It's almost like revisionist blogs are based on lies..

>>3185573
>>Benes' ultimately agrees to grant Germans independence
Never happened, Daladier proposed this and Benes was willing to hear them out but what ultimately provoked Hitler was civil unrest in the Sudentland combined with an intercepted communications between Georges Mandel and Benes, where Mandel went beyond Daladier's wishes. Both the British and French backed this up, and the communication confirmed that Benes was actually waiting for the French and British to step in and invade Germany.

>>3185579
They gave Poland control of most of the infrastructure and industry, but left the people somewhat autonomous. They did so because giving Danzig to the Poles would cause strife as you just said with German making up the clear majority of the city

>>3185576
>Anywhere?
Interesting, since I have never heard of any "violent oppression" and I have access to better sources than you do. Only violent conflict I can find was clash between Volkswere and the Czech army in Most during 1918.

>and were never beaten and hated by most of the people who received them?
Hated maybe, but not that much. Beaten, nope. At least not during the First Republic, clashes during the second one were result of German aggression and general high tensions.

>>3185594
>Everything that contradicts me is a lie based on revisionism
>Germans lashing out against oppression are terrorists
>Hitler just wanted to go to war with everybody for no reason
Yeah no

>>3185619
>and I have access to better sources than you d
I doubt being able to log into your uni's computers is much better than anything I have access to lol,
>Hates but not much
Nope
>Beaten:Nope
Yep
>Everything was due to the Germans
Nope

>>3185610
>Indeendence
*autonomy

>>3185610
I like how you completely deny terrorist acts commited by Sudeten Germans. And how they are mostly responsible for this "civil unrest".
I guess Sudetendeutsche Freikorps was also nothing more but anti-German propaganda. Even if they are responsible for more than 100 terrorist actions and murder of roughly 100 people.

>>3185580
thanks

>>3185623
>Everything that contradicts me is a lie based on revisionism
Well, I have yet to see sources. Your empty rhetorics only reinforce my notion that it's just another softcore neonazi revisionism.
>Germans lashing out against oppression are terrorists
Nazis lashed out against anything that opposed Hitler, other Germans included. Also even if true, doesn't make the Freikorps any less of terrorists as they were murdering innocent civilians.
>Hitler just wanted to go to war with everybody for no reason
Now, now where did anyone said that? His reason for aggresion against Czechoslovakia were local industry and German manpower.

>>3185615
>They gave Poland control of most of the infrastructure and industry
No.You don't understand this at all. No one really wanted to give Danzig to the Poles. There were only two options: let the Danzig join Germany or make it a Free City.

>>3185633
>I doubt being able to log into your uni's computers is much better than anything I have access to lol
I speak Czech, english sources on the subject are rather lacking in quantity and quality.

Also I am still waiting for the sources. Until you start to support your venom spitting with evidence, your posts are worthless.

>>3185639
>It was the Germans fault for having the police come and kill them
The two main events were in 1919 when the police killed about 40 Germans breaking up a peaceful protest and again in 1937 during a pro German political rally. This was after repeated attempts at moving in czech government workers into the area in order to offset their voting powers.
>Freikorps
>Calling anti communist militias in the 20's terrorists
>In Europe after the invasions of Finland , Poland, and of course Russia by extreme left wing revolutions in the aftermath of WW 1 that lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths
>Let alone the pathetic attempt in Marxist revolution in Germany
Wew as far as I know the freikorps we're just a bunch of old men by the 30's

>>3185654
>. No one really wanted to give Danzig to the Poles
*Except the Polish

>>3185669
>Wew as far as I know the freikorps we're just a bunch of old men by the 30's
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetendeutsches_Freikorps

Thanks for pointing out you are not qualified to speak on the topic. Now begone.

>>3185648
>Well, I have yet to see sources
https://books.google.com/books?id=_ETRlJfC_W4C&pg=PA290&lpg=PA290&dq=ibid+czechoslovakia&source=bl&ots=9bFze2YONX&sig=ZluR7VaTO7rFWjPr6KV36-rWsWI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu8tKX1rrVAhUW52MKHdDjAQoQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=ibid%20czechoslovakia&f=false

Best I can do right now. Of all the books I have read on the subject "idib" is one of the sources that says the same thing. If you're Czech maybe you can tell me what this refers to so I can give a primary source.

>>3185670
Obviously, but that's irrelevant.

>>3185669
>Calling anti communist militias in the 20's terrorists
>Wew as far as I know the freikorps we're just a bunch of old men by the 30's
Sudetendeutsche Freikorps were formed in late 1938...

>>3185679
No this is one of the militias under Heinlein I pointed out earlier actually, and their crimes are pretty goddamn minor compared to the crimes of the Czechs against the Germans.

Your ego is showing and it's hilarious :^)

>>3185690
Except those aren't actually freikorps, that is the name of newly made militia given the name of freikorps in honor of the movement in the 20's...

>>3185690
>Obviously, but that's irrelevant.
Except the reason we are discussing this is because I said the Danzig was made a free city in order to avoid Polish and German tensions....

>>3185694
Oh no, I completely forgot about the camps Czechs built for germans.

>>3185694
>and their crimes are pretty goddamn minor compared to the crimes of the Czechs against the Germans.
Empty words again...

>I pointed out earlier actually
Where? Under the term "Henlein's men"? Dude, you literally don't know who SD Freikorps were. Engaging in evasive maneuvors after reading wikipedia won't make you appear any less of a moron .

>>3185711
>Empty words again...
Right back at you whenever you accuse the Germans of being reckless terrorists for no reason except German Agression.
>Where
Ctr+F "Heinlein's" lurkmoar newfriend , I just forgot about the name of the militias that clashed with Benes when he sent troops to the Sudentland

>>3185702
No one planned to give Danzig to Poles in the first place.

>>3185717
>whenever you accuse the Germans of being reckless terrorists for no reason except German Agression

http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/1961_1_2_broszat.pdf

And from German Wikipedia:

>Insgesamt führten SFK-Trupps mehr als 200 Terroraktionen durch, töteten dabei über 100 Menschen und entführten etwa 2000 Opfer ins Deutsche Reich

>200 terrorist actions
>100 people killed
>2000 people kidnapped
We are talking here about fifth column commiting terrorist acts and destabilizing the country. But apparently the Czechs are the evil ones for sending police to protect their citizens.

>>3185717
>Ctr+F "Heinlein's"
see: >>3185711 Under the term "Henlein's men"? slowfriend

>I just forgot about the name
Nope, you were clearly being ignorant. Man who just "forgots the name" wouldn't write this: >>3185669

>Right back at you whenever you accuse the Germans of being reckless terrorists for no reason except German Agression

>Assault on Custom house in Habertice 21.9.1938
>Source: BRUNCLÍK, Zdeněk. Přepadení Heřmanic, Srbské a Habartic. In ANDĚL, Rudolf, a kol. Frýdlantsko – Minulost a současnost kraje na úpatí Jizerských hor. Liberec : Nakladatelství 555, 2002. ISBN 80-86424-18-9. Kapitola Přepadení Habartic, s. 134.
>Murder of Otokar Kodeš and kidnapping of Perner (German) 23.9.1938
>source: https://www.valka.cz/clanek_10888.html
>Murders in Srbska customs house 23.9.1938
>source: https://www.valka.cz/clanek_10888.html

>>3185175

>germany only builds turreted tanks now
>has even less of them available
>war is over in mid 44

Wow good plan

>>3185834
>Doesn't know how to use the find option
Lel
>Posts terrorist actions without context as to why they happened
>Which I did and gave sources to
Ffs it's like you're not even trying. Begin with you brainlet.

>>3185755
>No one planned to give Danzig to Poles in the first place.
You thick fuck I know I was saying the reason no one wanted to give Danzig to the Poles is because it would cause Polish German tensions

How thick can one individual be? You're agreeing with and disagreeing with me over nothing at the same fucking time lmao

>>3185867
Not an argument

>>3185755
>We are talking here about fifth column commiting terrorist acts and destabilizing the country.
Except this all occurred under the context of an oppressive police state formed under post WW 1 ethnic tensions that went both ways...

>>3185869
Not an argument

>>3185859
>Doesn't know how to use the find option
What's wrong with you? I know you said "Henlein's men" in one of your post. I even pointed it out in "Under the term "Henlein's men"?" Thing is being ignorant on SD Freikorps and disscussing their uprising is a sign of utter and complete moronism.

>Posts terrorist actions without context as to why they happened
They happened because German Nazis wanted to reinstate themselves as the ruling nation of Czech lands.

The rest of your post is rectal bleeding, that doesn't make sense

>>3185867
I disagree with you because you are looking at this problem from a wrong way.

It's like saying - they didn't give East Prussia to the Poles because it would cause German-Polish tension.

The question should be: why they make Danzig a Free City instead of letting it join Germany?

>revisionism
lying

>soft revisionism
lying by omission

>>3185883
>Thing is being ignorant on SD Freikorps
Literally just forgot the name of one of the different organizations that fought for the Germans in the Sudentland.
>This happened because the Germans wanted to rule over the Czechs again
>Again
The Germans never had control over Czechoslovakia or any of that land. The Austro-Hungarians did. What utter moronism are you espousing now? Are you accusing the national socialist of wanting to reinstate hapsburg rule over the Czech people? All they wanted is for the Sudentland to be given back to Germany , they faced opposition to this on all fronts which Benes and the Czechs where they were totally unwilling to give these lands back to Germany and so they fought it. There were ethnic tensions on both sides and if you are ignoring this in favor of your partisan outlook on history then so be it, just don't pretend to call yourself objective.

>>3185887
>why they make Danzig a Free City instead of letting it join Germany?

Because
It
Would
Cause
German-Polish
Tensions

Ffs

>>3185957
>The Germans never had control over Czechoslovakia or any of that land. The Austro-Hungarians did.
>All they wanted is for the Sudentland to be given back to Germany
>given back
Like you said Sudetenland was never part of Germany, so why should they "give it back"?

>>3185958
But why? Danzig was a German city.

>>3185979
Except the Sudentland was part of Germany before the start of WW 1, that was the aim of the national socialist , to reclaim the land lost in the Treaty of Versailles and restore German Unity. You dont think Hitler won over the whole damn country by talking shit about jews all the time do you?

what the fuck are you retards talking about
why in the blue hell is fucking Danzig important in WW2
its a fucking heavy metal band for God's sake

>>3185957
>Literally just forgot the name of one of the different organizations that fought for the Germans in the Sudentland.
There were more of them?

>The Austro-Hungarians did.
Oh yes, the famous Austro-Hungarian nation. Are you an American by any chance?

>All they wanted is for the Sudentland to be given back to Germany
Incorrect, see the 1st Vienna award. Annexation of Czechoslovak borderlands was merely a slice of salami.

>All they wanted is for the Sudentland to be given BACK to Germany
>The Germans NEVER had control over Czechoslovakia or any of that land.
...wait, did you just bamboozled yourself?

>just don't pretend to call yourself objective
Where was I not objective? I merely call you out for your lies.

>>3185957
why would Czechs want to give up such an important part of their country wily nily
why should they take H*tler assurance with comfort?

>>3186000
The Germans wanted it because it was a German city. The Poles wanted it because they had s major ethnic enclaves their and wanted access to the Sea. Germany wanted control over the ports as well. So in order to solve these issues Danzig was declared a free city that belonged to neither Poland or Germany so as to avoid tensions. But, Poland was given sole rights to develop the ports so as to partially cripple Germany and , supposedly, lead to a new balance of power in Europe by promoting the Polish. All of this was meant to prevent war (in theory) by preventing tensions from rising between the Polish and Germans.

>>3186007
Was it? Are you 100% sure? Now look at the map.

>>3186012
>There were more of them?
As far as I'm aware yes
>Austria Hungarian Nation
>Nation
When did I say this? Never? Oh yeah. You must be Albanian what with the low IQ and probable Arab admixture.
>False
True. Had Czechoslovakia just given the Sudentland back they wouldn't have been annexed by more than just Germany.
>.wait, did you just bamboozled yourself?
No.youre too much of a moron to understand that the Sudentland was already a possession of Germany that was partitioned to Czechoslovakia via the treaty of versailles. It was never Czech to begin with.
>Where was I not objective? I merely call you out for your lies.
>Dude German Agression lmao
Nice lies

>>3186032
>Was it?
Yes you moron

>>3186057
I don't even care anymore.

This is a map of German Empire from 1890.

File: Deutsches_Reich_Bevölkerungsdichte.jpg (2MB, 2388x1862px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2388x1862px

>>3186100

File: Czechoslovakia1920-38.jpg (268KB, 600x354px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 600x354px

>>3186103
This is a map of Czechoslovakia 1920-1938.

Cheb and Eger are different names of the same city.

>>3177289
This is literally just a meme. K/D ratio is 1.3, also Soviets had supperior K/D ratio if we exclude 1941 year, both Soviet and German casualities. Soviet defeat was entirely caused by the fact they were absolutely unprepared for war, some units didnt had any fuel. Purges had little to no affect (Tuchachevsky being good is bad joke, quess who commanded Red army at Warsaw in 1920, most of other high ranked officers that were purged were incopetent as shit). Red army had more than enough high-ranked officers (those were high majority of purged ones), just some incopetent like Budyonny or Voroshilov that were from old school stayed in command, this was a thing in most armies in WW2 including British where at the beggining, most commanders were incopetent idiots. Avarage Red army soldier was much better trained than German throught the entire war. Since "2 week training" is literall meme, since Soviet Union had conscription for all capable men of age 18-40 if i remember right, which wasnt a thing for Germans. Only Soviet problem was shortage of unteroffiziers that were many times lost in early war. Regular soldiers and high ranked officers were supperior to German.

>>3186053
>As far as I'm aware yes
The Green Cadres? They were just deserters, not an organization.

>When did I say this?
>The Germans never had control over Czechoslovakia or any of that land. The Austro-Hungarians did.
First is clearly a nation and you made no attempt to mark "Austro-Hungarians" as something different than a nation. Once again proving yourself to be a moronic neonazi.

>Had Czechoslovakia just given the Sudentland back they wouldn't have been annexed by more than just Germany.
...What the fuck? First they couldn't give it "back" because it was never part of German state in the first place. Secodn they submitted to German demands and ceded the borderlands.

>Sudentland was already a possession of Germany that was partitioned to Czechoslovakia via the treaty of versailles
If you mean Freissler's Sudetenland, than it was never part of Germany (They intended on joining Austria), neither a recognized entity, and was occupied without resistance in two months.

>Nice lies
Where did I lied?

File: FB_IMG_1501758894804.jpg (38KB, 912x905px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3181738
>Austria was very opressive toward its German minority
Are americans realy THAT retarded?

File: sudetenland_1938.gif (35KB, 549x310px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 549x310px

>>3186107
1890
Wew lad, Austria Hungary possessed the lands just like the rest of Czechoslovakia but unlike the Czechs, the Germans (who under the German Unification advocated for pan Germans) had their own state which they were trying to incorporate more Germans into which the Sudentland was not unaffected by either. It was actually suggested by Woodrow Wilson to incorporate the German lands into Germany at the end of the war although the league itself opposed this. It was in essence already a part of Germany.

>>3186155
>Ignorant on SD Freikorps
>Hitler was anti-war
>"Austro-Hungarians"
>Czechoslovakia was an oppressive police state that acted violently against the German minority
>Sudetland was part of Germany
>All they wanted is for the Sudentland to be given back to Germany
>Plus the way of argumentation and constant clusterfuck-y rhetoric


It's honestly too much, I am starting to think it's leftypol false-flag.

>>3186155
Austrian do not always consider themselves German and the dictatorships and support Shusnig , Dolfuss , and the Fatherland Front clearly show that.

The adults are having a conversation
>>>/leddit/

>>3186191
The amount self assuredness in this one is just amazing. I got a name wrong and somehow the czechs literally did nothing and this propoganda of unwarranted german Agression. You've Ignore all of the sources I've given you in the name of protecting your fragile ego while you accuse me of being a neo Nazi ffs. You are beyond a desperate person

>>3186191
I missed the part where Beneš and Masaryk censored most of Czech fascist news that called for deportation of all Germans to concentration camps to opress Germans by not letting Czech Fascist militias to do it

>>3186205
Please, do enlighten us how did Austria oppressed Germans.

Nice use of punctuation btw

>>3186130
>First is clearly a nation and you made no attempt to mark "Austro-Hungarians" as something different than a nation
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/a%20priori
Lmao
>Neo Nazis
No
>It wasn't German in the first place
No
>If you mean Freissler's Sudetenland, than it was never part of Germany
No
>Where did I lied?
>It was just German Agression lmao
>Czechs never did anything : source my ass

>>3186225
Czechs ever do anything : source my ass

>>3186210
>I got a name wrong and somehow the czechs
You were clearly being ignorant (>>3185669), you didn't "got a name wrong". This is an obvious signal of uneducated mind, but I'll rest it and let the bystanders judge. I have more than enough ammo against you.

>You've Ignore all of the sources I've given you
Since the start of your rambling you've used single (1) source, which was about influence of Czechoslovak economy and German war machine arguing that Hitler's reason for aggression against Czechoslovakia was economic. You haven't made an attempt to connect this source to any of your arguments.

>>3186172
>It was in essence already a part of Germany
>It was real in my mind
I'm through with this thread.

>>3186219
The dictatorships of Schuslig and Dolfuss oppressed those in favor of Pan-Germanism as they did with anyone opposing the government as it was. Those who did this considered themselves to be austrian and not German. It's that simple. It was essentially nothing compared to what happened in Czechoslovakia but it still happened nevertheless

>>3186249
>Its essentialy nothing compared to what happened in Czechoslovakia
What happened in Czechoslovakia
Beneš literally saved Krauts from our Fascists

>>3186225
>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/a%20priori
>Lmao
???

>It was German in the first place
>Freissler's Sudetland was part of Germany
Evidence?

>It was just German Agression
What was supposed not to be German aggression? Terrorist acts against innocents by the Freikorps, the treaty of Munich, subsequent occupation of borderlands and eviction of local Czechs? First Vienna award?

>Czechs never did anything
never claimed that, you've just failed to mention any incident in First CS republic where did Germans got hurt.

>>3186235
>Czechs ever do anything : source my ass
Gave you a goddamn source that apparently you didn't like.
>>3186241
>source, which was about influence of Czechoslovak economy and German war machine arguing that Hitler's reason for aggression against Czechoslovakia was economic.
Kek no it wasn't, you didn't even bother look at the source. This is the sign of an uneducated mind skim reading through what he thinks he knows and boasting with confidence of his misrepresentations.
>>3186247
>It was real in my mind
It was a German land that was supposed to go to Germany. What else do you need?

>>3186249
>oppressed those in favor of Pan-Germanism
So no, they were not oppressing Germans, but those who wanted to annex Austrian state to Germany.

>as they did with anyone opposing the government as it was.
Geeee.. it's almost like they were fascists?

>>3186270
>It was German land that was supposed to go to Germany
By what logic?

>>3186270
>Kek no it wasn't
>http://www.academia.edu/8398313/Becker_A._book_review_Patrick_Crowhurst_Hitler_and_Czechoslovakia_in_World_War_II_Domination_and_Retaliation_in_Humanities._Sozial-_und_Kulturgeschichte_Aktueller_Fokus_Featured_contributions_October_2014_http_hsozkult.geschichte.hu-berlin.de_
>The book demonstrates with reference to Bohemia and Moravia, Slovakia and Ruthenia just how pragmatic Hitler and German policy-makers were in the interest of realpolitik, and insists upon the centrality of economic exploitation to our understanding of German-Czechoslovak relationship during World War II. This is a
persuasive argument, not least in seeking to understand Germany’s efforts not only to
enforce the prosecution of Jews, and the politically unreliable, but also to exploit the resources and economy of the Protectorate for the war effort. The writer contends that both the absorption of the Sudetenland and the Czech lands were more crucial for the Nazi war machine (from as early as October 1938) than it has been previously understood by historians, and claims that the take-over of armament factories and raw materials significantly accelerated German capabilities. This argument is backed up with the analysis of numerous tables and statistics, which significantly helps understanding the complexity of the topic

It was the best part of the book. Why did you mentioned it, anyway?

>>3186256
>Beneš literally saved Krauts from our Fascists
>Benes fags unironcally believe this
No just no, he didn't prevent expulsions or massacres of any kind, in fact before the war he mostly condoned the use of police violence against the Germans

>>3186259
>???
Lurkmoar holy shit
>>Freissler's Sudetland was part of Germany
No, the Sudetenland was supposed to be given to Germany after end of ww1 as Wilson proposed but was decided against by the League of Nations.
>Failed to mention First CS republic where did Germans got hurt.
Except I didn't?
The two main events I I gave as examples were in 1919 and in 1937

>>3186295
>Beneš fags
>Implying i dont support our Fascists
>Massacres
Citation needed

>>3186308
>Why didnt Czechoslovakia gave its most important territory to country that lost the war

>>3186289
>He STILL doesn't know how to use the find tool
https://books.google.com/books?id=_ETRlJfC_W4C&pg=PA290&lpg=PA290&dq=ibid+czechoslovakia&source=bl&ots=9bFze2YONX&sig=ZluR7VaTO7rFWjPr6KV36-rWsWI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu8tKX1rrVAhUW52MKHdDjAQoQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=ibid%20czechoslovakia&f=false

Look at it again and focus on the highlighted words ffs , I have you the primary source for my claims that I see in the books I read.

It's highlighted "Idib"right there.

>>3186310
>In the summer of 1945 there were localised massacres of the German population. The following examples are described in a study done by the European University Institute in Florence:[23]

>June 18–19, 1945, in the Přerov incident, 71 men, 120 women and 74 children (265 Germans) who were Carpathian Germans from Dobšiná were passing through Horní Moštěnice near Přerov railway station. Here they were taken out of the train by Czechoslovakian soldiers, taken outside the city to a hill named "Švédské šance", where they were forced to dig their own graves and all were shot.[24]
>20,000 Germans were forced to leave Brno for camps in Austria. Z. Beneš reported 800 deaths.[25]
>Estimates of those killed in the Ústí massacre range from not less than 42 up to 2,000 civilians. Recent estimates range from 80 to 100 deaths.[26]
>763 ethnic Germans were shot dead in and around Postelberg (now Postoloprty).[25][27] In September 1947 a Czechoslovak parliamentary commission investigated reports of mass graves scattered around the north Bohemian town of Postoloprty. In all, the investigation unearthed 763 German bodies, victims of a zealous Czechoslovak army detachment carrying out orders to "cleanse" the region of Germans in late May 1945. Expellees who survived the massacre estimated the number of their murdered neighbours at around 800.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_from_Czechoslovakia

Pre war it was police brutality at least

>>3186342
>1945 is pre-1938

>>3186342
>Pre-war it was police brutality at least
Wow, i realy wonder why did police and army fought against armed terrorists that wanted to steal part of state territory and were killing civilians

>>3186318
*To avoid future conflict
Don't forget that

>>3186359
>Wow, i realy wonder why did police and army fought against armed terrorists that wanted to steal part of state territory and were killing civilians
From the perspective of the Germans
>Wow, i realy wonder why did militia fight against armed terrorists that wanted to steal part of state territory and were killing civilians
It's almost like their was a conflict involved...

>>3186361
Sounds like cuck diplomacy

>>3186368
Do you still bealive that Sudety were part od Germany?

Is it just me who can't comprehend this guy, or is he flying on meth?

>>3186308
>Lurkmoar holy shit
kewl, you've learned our lingo and now you feel entitled to spew shit?
>No, the Sudetenland was supposed to be given to Germany after
Oh, wait! So it was not, but it was supposed to be? Also my sources keep saying Freissler's Sudetenland aimed to joined Austria primarily, do you have sources saying it was aiming to join Germany primarily?

>>3186321
Lad, you don't make sense. "Ibid" means that a reference was to the same source as the previous one, why do you speak about it?

>I have you the primary source for my claims that I see in the books I read.
I can't comprehend this sentence, rewrite it.

Also you failed to answer my previous question:
>What do you want to accomplish by pointing me to the Crowhurst?

>>3186389
>Oh, wait! So it was not, but it was supposed to be?
It was a German land until the mass expulsions, and Wilson wanted to give the Sudentland to Germany to avoid ethnic conflict but the League decided to support "Czech unity" by giving them a German land rich in minerals.

Yeah, it was German clay.

>>3186389
>Is it just me who can't comprehend this guy
It's just you
>I have you the primary source for my claims that I see in the books I read.
Insert "given" after I. Normally people have an automatic unconscious reflex that fills in obvious missing words using syntax and context of a sentence as means of filling in the gaps. Is English not your first language m8 or are you really just that brain dead?

>>3186403
No, it wasnt, it wasnt German since about 6th century when Slavs came. Only because our King invited them to live here doesnt mean they can betray us.

>>3186389
>>What do you want to accomplish by pointing me to the Crowhurst?
How many times do I have to keep telling you this? I was trying to point you to the primary sources documents I got my info from. In every book I read it's "Idib". That's where the claims of police brutality are documented.

>>3186413
>after I.
I have. Sorry, that reflex is pretty strong when it is your own syntax which is probably why it might be hard to pick up on for non native speaker.

That was meta trolling in case you couldn't catch on. Sucks to be you, English > dirt shit non-english

File: 1492629547843.jpg (853KB, 1785x2191px) Image search: [Google]

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Stay mad you jew hating drunks

>>3186419
>Idib
>source
Is this like a prank?

>>3186416
A land belongs to the ethnicity who lives on it. Your king shouldn't have invited them in , had he more foresight he would realize that ethnic conflict is inevitable in the long term. See, after centuries pass people tend to forget or care about what happened hundreds of years ago as it affects them now.

>>3186413
>It's just you
Reading comprehension, lad. Train it! The question was not aimed at you.

>Insert "given" after I.
I have assumed so, your sentence still doesn't make sense.

>You point me at a random book about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia to show me a case of police brutality against Germans
>It isn't there, but it was supposed to be found in primary sources under the magically word "idib"
>Ibid is the term used to provide an endnote or footnote citation or reference for a source that was cited in the preceding endnote or footnote.
If you wanted to confuse me, you did a great job.

>>3186433
>Idib
>Not Idem
In North America it's usually just Id, but no it's not why? Did you just not read the sources?

>>3186446
>I have assumed so, your sentence still doesn't make sense.
>He fell for it
Goddamn at least read the addendum

File: insain.jpg (12KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3186463
If there is an addendum, then it is not in the preview version.

>>3174253
>still were mostly armed with kar98k's
Nothing wrong with that. The K98 was an excellent rifle.

>>3183472
afaik there was no schwere panzerabteilung deployed in the area at that time

the hitlerjugend division was present there with its panzerregiment, panthers and pzIVs, i

>>3186531
eh, its easy to mistake a pzIV-H for a tiger when you are expecting it

>>3186434
>Medieval
>Ethnic conflict
Pick one nigger
Krauts shouldnt have accepted the invite if they knew they would be "opressed" 600 years later

>>3176662
Killing pows doesn't really make your army good

>>3186537

no wonder they often reported panzer 4s as tigers

File: freedom.jpg (41KB, 283x352px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3182635
Winner.

>>3186499

then why were the SS so eager to get their hands on SVTs and really any sort of automatic weapon? Besides the mosin all bolt action rifles were servicable, but clearly outdated.

>>3174990

*smacks lips*