Did Native Americans ever have a chance at getting technologically

All civilization was isolated and no exchange of culture and knowledge happened

>>2727066
Are you saying Incas never met Mayans?

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>>2727053
From what I read, Americans didn't have the climate for empires the way the Mediterranean did. America isn't very wide so the same plants can't grow all over. The climate changes a lot going north to south where around the Mediterranean the same types of crops are grown all over.

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>>2727053
They are getting stronger now.

>>2727091
Yes

>>2727053
>Did Native Americans ever have a chance at getting technologically advanced before Europeans?
Nope. They are pretty dumb

You need a certaint amount of competition to advance. America was big enough where you could just fuckoff if you didn't like the way things were going. Look at the Mississippians, most of their population just up and went nomad because that was easier than figuring out this whole Urbanization bullshit.

>>2727053
It was 1000s of years before civilizations in the old world developed the bronze alloy and 1000s more before they stumbled across iron. Horses and other animals also took a long time.

The Incas experimented with lots of alloys but apparently never discovered bronze was the hardest or set up trade routes to get the tin needed and such.

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>>2727211
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan

>>2727230
Pyramids are baby tier. Even pinoys built some.

>>2727053
>before Europeans

Europeans were stone age too before cultural diffusion from the Middle East.

>>2727221
The mesoamerican civilizations were in constant wars against each other

>>2727241
>Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés arrived in Tenochtitlan on November 8, 1519. With an estimated population between 200,000 and 300,000, many[who?] scholars believe Tenochtitlan to have been among the largest cities in the world at that time.[14] Compared to Europe, only Paris, Venice and Constantinople might have rivaled it. It was five times the size of the London of Henry VIII.[6] In a letter to the Spanish king, Cortés wrote that Tenochtitlan was as large as Seville or Córdoba. Cortes' men were in awe at the sight of the splendid city and many wondered if they were dreaming.[15]

They came up with a writing system independently.

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>>2727241
>Pyramids are baby tier.
>old worlders couldn't build something even close to pic related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaLRMq8sgYM

lmaoing @t your life

>>2727241
>The Classic Maya understood many astronomical phenomena: For example, their estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation as to the length of the tropical solar year was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived.[3]

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>>2727053
They developed in an area barely bigger than the Iberian Peninsula, whereas the area of cultural exchange of the Old World ranged from Portugal to Japan and from Indonesia to Iceland.
>Didn't met Central Asians and their horses, Mesopotamians and their steel and bulls, Egyptians and their ships, Indians and their mathematics and astronomy, Greeks and their science and thinking, Romans and their engeneering and law, Chinese and their gunpowder and compass. And still got:

>Biggest structures in the world up to this day
>Better medicine than in Renaissance Europe
>Equal if not better hydraulic engeneering than that of the Old World
>World's best astronomy
>Only people to develop crops able to produce 7 harvests a year
>World's best genetically manipulated crops, provided the world with cotton, corn, amaranth, chocolate and spices
>Developed writting, zoologies, botanical gardens, mathematics and the concept of zero despite being isolated
>First state in history to introduce universal compulsory education
>Slavery was not hereditary and slaves could buy their freedom

That's not even considering the amount of time they had to achieve it. Oldest civilizations in the Old World are from 9000 b.c. while the Mesoamericans started in 2000 bc.
If only they had been in contact with the developments, and diseases, of the massive area of exchange in the Old World. Only disease they introduced was a bedbug infection and syphilis (whose origins are still disputed), while the Old World gave them the bubonic plague, chicken pox, cholera diphtheria, influenza. leprosy, malaria, measles, scarlet fever, smallpox, typhoid, typhus, whooping cough, yaws and yellow fever. All at the same time.

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>>2727385
they were too young ;_;

>>2727053
They never stagnated, in fact they were just in the early stages of empire building and making rapid progress. They were probably at about 350BC in European terms.

The European arrival just changed everything forever.

>>2727053
They could have surpassed Europe

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Humans arrived to America 12000 - 10000 years ago and important sedentary settlements started almost 3000 years ago at much. Is not a matter of being able to reach the level of the rest of the world, but they started 5000 later.

And of course, not being able to communicated with other cultures didn't help either.

There was no stagnation. They were pretty advanced in comparison with the rest of the world. Europe was the exception, not the norm.

If only the Incans and the Mayans/Aztecs weren't too far from each other and separated by the Darien gap, maybe through the cultural and technological diffusion they might have been able to advance at a much quicker pace.

And also if only the classical Mayan civilization didn't break up and die out essentially by the time the Spanish got there. The Mayans seem like the Greeks of the new world, the Incans the Romans of the new world.
It kind of sucks that writing was not developed in the Peruvian coast before columbus. The Caral civilization there could've made something similar to cuneiform with all the clay tablets they could've made there living in the desert. With no way of keeping detailed records aside from possibly the quipu, a lot of history was lost. Imagine as if the Sumerians or the Chinese hadn't made their alphabets until a lot later and any records of antiquity weren't put down. That's a lot of history lost.

>>2728094
The Aztecs the Germans of the new world

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>>2728094
>the Incans the Romans of the new world
you wish, as if romans had built something equal to pic related

>>2728094
It has nothing to do with the Darién Gap. People always say shit like "MAN, WHAT IF THE AZTECS AND MAYA MET THE INCA" but that's just because those are the only three Precolumbian civilizations most people have heard of. Truth is, there was plenty of cultural exchange going on in Mexico/Central America & South America - it was dotted with cities, most of which did not belong to the Big Three.

They didn't really advance at a slower pace than the Old World civilizations. Considering they got a much later start on domesticating calorically dense staple crops like maize/squash/potatoes, they were doing quite well.

>>2727162
It has nothing to do with climate. They made do in pretty harsh climates. Lack of horses for faster travel of information, technology, ideas etc. This made their progress slower and more difficult but they were still progressing. There wasn't a stagnation.

>>2728316
They developed metallurgy at a slower pace, despite the fact that metallurgy was one of the few things transmitted directly between Andeans and Mesoamericans (through seaborn trade between Ecuador and Western Mexico).

In most ways you're right though; considering Mesoamerican civilization only started around 1200 BC, they had about two thousand less years than the Middle East/Europe to develop. That would put the height of Mesoamerican civilization around 600-800 AD around the same stage as the height of Bronze Age civilization around 1400-1200 BC, and aside from metallurgy I don't see any reason to think Mesoamerican were less impressive. The Mayans had shit like suspension bridges and aqueducts at that point, which didn't exist in the Eurasian bronze age.

>>2728356
Preclassic is like 1800 bc I thought.

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>>2728267

That style of architecture is neolithic and died out in the Old World after the bronze age collapse, the Romans had far more advanced methods of construction.

Pic related, from Mycenae.

>>2728363
Nah, the Olmecs arose around 1200ish and the Mayans came even later.

>>2728372
Mycenae is from the Late Bronze Age, and its masonry is nowhere near as impressive as Inca stuff. No Neolithic architecture looks anything like that of the Incas, the closest being a few Maltese temples which aren't nearly comparable in scale or technical skill.

I feel sorry for the native Americans tbqh

They didn't deserve burger domination

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>>2728479
The nuraghes in Sardinia are extremely complex structures, with (at the time) around 10000 of them even in places where bringing big rocks was really difficult, like on tops of hills.

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>>2728704
Exactly

Pic related Nuragic masonry in 1300 bc

>>2727167
Unironically this. We are experiencing the native equivalent to the renaissance. Pride in indigeneity is increasing everyday and natives are becoming healthier and stronger.

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>>2728744
Another example.
Still, I think Inca architecture and civilization are awesome, way beyond Neolithic tier, at least bronze age Europe tier but possibly beyond too

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>>2728356
Acqueducts existed in Eurasia during the bronze age.

(Minoan Crete, Mycenean Greece, Sardinia)

>>2728784

Neolithic isn't an insult, the Pyramids are neolithic. In fact stoneworking techniques got WORSE after the neolithic.

>>2728316
Of course there were more cultures apart from them, but the other big one at least in mexican part of nativeAmerica, the Olmecas. They however died long before the rising of the mexicas, plus the other cities where simply submitted by tribute to the mexicas.

>>2729225
This map is claiming the people who built Cahokia were hunter gatherers, so I doubt it's very accurate.

>>2729237

It's inaccurate in saying 'hunting' and 'hunting-gathering'.

The places marked 'hunting' were hunters and gatherers.

The places marker 'hunting-gathering' were hunters and gardeners.

It's inaccurate in the direction of depicting North America as less developed than it really was.

>>2729237

Where do you think Cahokia was?

>>2729247

Saint Louis?

>>2727167
>tfw when I'm working to make several native based projects in comics and animations.

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>>2727053
Germanic shits can't even figure out cities or writing.

>>2728035
What is all this "unable to communicate with other cultures"?

What do you call 2 continents with 100's of nations, wide ranging nutrition, mobility, empires, stationary, mobile, very different!

What, that they were brown? C'mon, gonna need more than that

>>2729687
There was communication, but without camels, horses its hard to travel several hundreds miles. This is why long distance trade was mostly by canoe, That said communication and even long distance trade between the continents did happen, but I imagine with horses and camels communications would be much faster.

>>2728316
this
various overlooked pre-civilizations along the way from the south (inca) to the north (maya, aztecs)

>>2729687
mediterranean geography is way different from american geography
>jungles
>mountain ridges
>swamps
>deserts
that does not help

>>2727053

>What caused their stagnation?
When will this meme end?

>>2727385
This.

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>>2728767
>natives are becoming healthier and stronger
Not gonna fight you on the idea that indigenous pride is on the upsurge, but it's not a shameful thing to say the human race (and therefore indigenous Americans) peaked in health and strength with Jim Thorpe

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>>2729687
>literally comparing a single continent like America, 43 316 000 km2, stretching from the North Pole to the Antartica, mountain ranges, deserts, deep tropical forest, micro climates every 100 m and so on, to the Mediterranean and the Near East
>without saying the small population of pre columbian America and the lack of horses or any animal able to travel long distances with a heavy load

Consider the following:

The distance from México DF, back then Technoticlan, to Cuzco is 4717 km, of course on a straight line, the distance increases if you consider they would have to travel across Tropical Central America and the Andes, by foot.

Thats about the distance from Lisboa to Baghdad, a distance covered mostly by sea and with animals on land.

>>2727385
I love that there are still things to learn in /his/ in the middle of all of the /pol/

>>2728767
>We are experiencing the native equivalent to the renaissance

HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2728767
>native equivalent to the renaissance
I don't even know what would compel somebody to make a statement like that

>>2727053

They arrived late to the party. By the time big nations were setting up and moving toward the first empires they had europeans knocking on the door.

>>2727053

Honestly, they had the same technology as Africans.

Had North America been full of Malaria it would still be Native American today.

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>>2728767
>and natives are becoming healthier and stronger.
I have yet to see one that is taller than 6 foot and is not as ugly as an aborted fetus. On top of that I can't name a single 100% native athlete.

>>2728267
>as if romans had built something equal to pic related
Are you serious?

>>2727269
Maybe they spent a few moments in awe, but very quickly they built a big fire and started to tear off everything that was made of gold or silver, and began melting it.

>>2730262
retard

>>2727385
>Biggest structures in the world up to this day
Nope
>>Better medicine than in Renaissance Europe
Nope. It was acupuncture. In Europe doctors performed some surgeries and were developing modern medicine
>>Equal if not better hydraulic engeneering than that of the Old World
Nope
>>World's best astronomy
Nope. This is just WE WUZism
>>Only people to develop crops able to produce 7 harvests a year
No clue. They had different crops and climates
>>World's best genetically manipulated crops, provided the world with cotton, corn, amaranth, chocolate and spices
Those cropsare natural to America
>>Developed writting, zoologies, botanical gardens, mathematics and the concept of zero despite being isolated
Like almost any civilization. Even Africans
>>First state in history to introduce universal compulsory education
Nope
>>Slavery was not hereditary and slaves could buy their freedom
I am pretty sure this happened almost everywhere

>>2730563
How were they more advanced than Africans

>>2730580
>It was acupuncture tier

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>>2730582

>B-but they wuzn't kings!!!


Are you fucking kidding me?

Mayan cities had hundreds of thousands of inhabitants, sewers, excellent city planning over all, Inca had excellent roads and incredibly efficient agriculture, incredible masonry and architecture

Maybe only Egypt had comparable monuments, btu that's it, West Africa was inferior on every aspect and so was Ethiopia (they had good architecture but Mayans surpass them in everything else)

>>2728035
Where did you get that penguin from??

>>2730605
Using a minecraft reconstruction is not an argument pal. You are assuming that pyramids are an actual impressive construction when your average cathedral takes way more technique and knowledge to construct. Claiming that the tiny ass pyramids of the Mayans are as impressive as the Colisseum is just stupid.
West Africans were way more advanced in metalurgy,cattle raising and warfare

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>>2730624
>your average cathedral

Were you not talking about Africans?

I like how you keep moving your goalpost, you pathetic little poltard.

>tiny ass Pyramids

Lol?

Is this a joke?

>as impressive as the Colisseum

Oh yeah, the famous African colosseum, give me a break, you've lost the argument, give it up.

>>2728802
>minoan crete
>mycenean greece
Why did the other civilizations destroyed and didn't adopt these structures?

>>2730647
Because after the Bronze age collapse Greeks forgot how to write and stopped living in cities for the most part, though some cities were not abandoned completely, so it's possible that some of those acqueducts were still in use, around the 7th century bc Greeks started building acqueducts agains

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>>2730624
>>2730624
>Cathedrals>pyramids
>tiny

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>>2730624
>Africans were more advanced in metallurgy

Maybe, but Natie American jewelry was much more advanced than African

>warfare

Ok

And Native Americans were way more advanced in:

1)Writing, because they actually came up with it in Mesoamerica

2)architecture: both Mayan and Ica archtiecture si way more impressive than anything in West Africa, both in scale and technique, both Andean civilization and Mesoamerican ones left behind an incredible number of stunning monument, what did African leave behing? an ugly mudhut mosque? a weird stone circle? The only decent monuments were made in Ethiopia and are still way less than those built by native Americans

3)agriculture: Inca's agriculture techniques were much more advanced than rudimentary African subsistence tier agriculture

4)City planning/urbanization: Mayan cities were as big as contemporary European ones, while African cities were glorified villages made of scattered mudhuts without any city planning, Mesoamerican ones were cleaner and more well palnned than even European ones, let alone African """"cities""""

5)Jewelry: As I said before

>>2730638
In Africa you have castles in Ghana that are way harder to build than pyramids and the Nubian pyramids if you are just interested in pyramids. Claiming that native americans were more advanced than Ghana or Mali is just stupid

>>2730689
Astronomy as well m8. It always surprises me how accurate the natives were, especially aztecs and mayans with their rudimentary tools. Mayan observations on Venus are impressive.

>>2730543

Not exactly. The events aren't fully known , but the Spanish likely stayed in the royal palace for a weeks before they kidnapped Moctezuma II and used him as a puppet. There was even a period when Cortes left to Veracruz, and by the time he returned the Aztecs had elected a new king and Moctezuma died in debatable circumstances, sometimes speculated at the hands of his own people.

>>2730580

>Better medicine than in Renaissance Europe
>Nope. It was acupuncture.
Historians have always commended the Aztecs for having had more effective medicinal practices than the Europeans at the time.
>acupuncture
Where the fuck did you hear this?
>Equal if not better hydraulic engeneering than that of the Old World
>Nope
This is a reasonable conclusion though. They're utilization of aqueducts was just as effective as the European counterparts. Fun fact: most European societies at the time had god awful hygiene and sanitation, and thought it strange that all Aztecs bathed daily, as well as sweeped the streets clean.
>World's best astronomy
>Nope.
Lol. Are you denying the accuracy of Mesoamerican calendars?
>Only people to develop crops able to produce 7 harvests a year
>Not sure.
Chinampas were basically artificial islands made of soil and it was common for them to yield that much crop.
>First state in history to introduce universal compulsory education
>Nope.
Whether they were first or not, I'm unsure, but education was compulsory for both boys and girls, whether at home or in school.

>>2730692
>african civilizations
>ghana castles
Are you retarded?

>>2730658
Cathedrals are in every way more impressive than a pyramid

>>2730698
>Historians have always commended the Aztecs for having had more effective medicinal practices than the Europeans at the time.
Who? In Europe you had surgeons and arab medicine. I highly doubt that natives had anything close to that
>Lol. Are you denying the accuracy of Mesoamerican calendars?
No. But claiming that they had a deeper understanding of astronomy that people that crossed oceans using astronomy is just dumb

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>>2730692
>Claiming that native americans were more advanced than Ghana or Mali is just stupid

Is this a fucking joke?

Show me any building in Mali or Ghana that is more impressive than Mesoamerica/Andean architecture, I'm waiting

>hehehe they had pyramids so they were not advanced

You're a fucking retard, a pyramid that size of certain Mayan ones takes a lot of human effort to build, especially when you considered how refined the stone sued for the building were, also it's not like it was just pyramyds, they had huge palaces, observatories, temples of all kinds, massive walls, underground acqueducts and much more, you're just a fucking poltard with 0 clue of what you're talking about, the fact that they built pyramids (which ARE impressive becase they imply a huge number of humans working on them because of their sheer size alone, thefore a hyge population) doesn't mean that they didn't build anything else


And Maya/Inca housing alone was much more advaned than anything in Africa

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>>2730713
Another example of excellent Mayan architecture

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>>2730720

>>2730708

>“They have their own native skilled doctors who know how to use many herbs and medicines which suffices for them. Some of them have so much experience that they were able to heal Spaniards, who had long suffered from chronic and serious diseases" (Motolinía 1971: 160).

>>2730741
How is herb treatments more advanced than European medicine that alredy had eye surgeons? Do you seriously believe in "natural medicine" and all that crap?

>>2730851
you realize that the western world, right now, used herbs to treat some things, and lazer eye surgery to treat another thing? It's not hard to believe that a herb accomplishes a medicinal purpose.

>>2730851
>eye surgeon
Eye removal?
I remember reading about Inca skull arrow brain exposed injuries healed by surgeons.

>>2730851
I refuse to believe this isnt bait

>>2730861
I am not saying that herb treatment is a myth.I am saying that comparing basic herbal medicine to surgeries and other advanced procedures that led to modern science is stupid.And claiming that it was superior to it is even dumber

>>2730863
>eye surgeon
Europeans knew how to perform some eye surgeries like catracts.Only some edgy we wuz moron would even claim that the Aztecs had more advanced medicine than Europeans.Specially knowing the development of modern medicine is closer to

>>2730866
>>2730876

The point isn't what they used, it's that their methods were more effective, even in the eyes of European missionaries that came to Mexico to convert the natives, which one of whom is cited here >>2730741

But if you want to focus on surgery, the Aztecs did employ some surgical techniques, such as using wooden splints and cords to treat bone fractures, and sticks inserted into the bone when other methods failed. What modern techniques does this sound similar to?

>>2730976
Nice job grasping at straws. One source speaking of how a fewSpaniards were healed from Amerindian medical practices doesn't mean aztecs had better medical skills across the board.

>>2730876

Also, I did come cursory research into cataract surgery, and it seems that the most prominent method until about 1748 was couching. A technique which had a small success rate, and often led to blindness.

>>2731023

Oh for fuck's sake, it's not the only example, if you want a full unbiased opinion here's an article.

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.pa.06.040166.000301?journalCode=pharmtox.1

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>>2729816
What do you mean by that? Do you mean the average health and fitness of the public or are you saying Jim Thorpe was the pinnacle of human health and fitness?

I think either is demonstrably wrong but before I pull out my graphs, stats, pictures of Demetrious Johnson, and other leftist propaganda, I want to know what your position actually is because Im confus

>>2731037
Is this your mind on wewuz? Just because the Spanish gained knowledge from the aztech (something i'd hope or else aztech would be abo level) doesn't mean Aztec medical knowledge was superior to the old world.

Alot of the "Europeans were idiots" is complete fabrication. The article you listed mentions "plant remedies" Rural and Small town Europeans use plant remedies even to this day and especially did centuries ago. This isn't some impress feast.

>>2730537
>Are you serious?
do you want me to answer, just post something equal

>>2731063

For the love of God. Why can't you do some actual research before making claims? Are you aware of the four humors? That was the theory that governed most medicinal practices in Europe for a very long time.

All it stated was that the Aztecs based their methods on empiricism, and that the Europeans based most of theirs on philosophy, which isn't false. Nowhere does it explicitly claim that Europeans were idiots, truth does not partake in bias. What I'm wondering is why it's difficult for you to admit that Europeans weren't #1 at everything ever.

>>2730876
Then I guess Cortes was an edgy wewuzer.

>>2731095
>lmao
>nope
Nice arguments.

>>2729686
comfy village > dirty cities

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>>2730580
>>>World's best genetically manipulated crops, provided the world with cotton, corn, amaranth, chocolate and spices
>Those cropsare natural to America
Cotton was independently domesticated by Mesoamericans, Arabians and Indians. But pic related might give an idea of why 95% of the cotton produced in the world is the one domesticated by Mesoamericans.

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>>2730580
>>Biggest structures in the world up to this day
>Nope
>According to the Guinness Book of Records, Cholula is in fact the largest pyramid as well as the largest monument ever constructed anywhere in the world, with a total volume estimated at over 4.45 million cubic metres, even larger than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, which is about 2.5 million cubic metres.

>>Better medicine than in Renaissance Europe
>Nope. It was acupuncture.
>Hernando Cortés reportedly told the Spanish monarch that the Aztec physicians were superior to those in Spain, so superior, in fact, that the king need not bother sending Spanish physicians to the New World.
>‘"I marveled, in this and in innumerable other herbs, which are nameless among us, how in the Indies, where people are so uncultured and barbaric, there are so many herbs, some with known uses and some without, but there is almost none, which is not known to them and given a particular name"
- Personal physian of the Spanish king

>>First state in history to introduce universal compulsory education
>Nope
>The Aztec Triple Alliance, which ruled from 1428 to 1521 in what is now central Mexico, is considered to be the first state to implement a system of universal compulsory education.[4][5]

>>Developed writting, zoologies, botanical gardens, mathematics and the concept of zero despite being isolated
>Like almost any civilization. Even Africans
Many parts of Africa were not isolated. Also would like a source on that.

>I am pretty sure this happened almost everywhere
well, you'll have to source it because it wasn't the case neither with the Greeks, nor the Romans

>>World's best genetically manipulated crops, provided the world with cotton, corn, amaranth, chocolate and spices
>Those cropsare natural to America
the ancestors of those crops are

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>>2730580
>>>Only people to develop crops able to produce 7 harvests a year
>No clue. They had different crops and climates
Pretty sure Europeans had template highlands and lakes. Why didn't they develop equal techniques?

>>2730580
>>>Equal if not better hydraulic engeneering than that of the Old World
>Nope
and yet:

>Tenochtitlan was founded on an islet in the western part of the lake in the year 1325. Around it, the Aztecs created a large artificial island using a system similar to the creation of chinampas. To overcome the problems of drinking water, the Aztecs built a system of dams to separate the salty waters of the lake from the rain water of the effluents. It also permitted them to control the level of the lake. The city also had an inner system of channels that helped to control the water.

>During Cortés' siege of Tenochtitlan in 1521, the dams were destroyed, and never rebuilt, so flooding became a big problem for the new Mexico City built over Tenochtitlan.

>Mexico City suffered from periodic floods; in 1604 the lake flooded the city, with an even more severe flood following in 1607. Under the direction of Enrico Martínez, a drain was built to control the level of the lake, but in 1629 another flood kept most of the city covered for five years.

>Eventually the lake was drained by the channels and a tunnel to the Pánuco River, but even that could not stop floods, since by then most of the city was under the water table. The flooding could not be completely controlled until 1967, with the construction of a Deep Drainage System.

>The ecological consequences of the draining were enormous. Parts of the valleys were turned semi-arid, and even today Mexico City suffers for lack of water. Due to overdrafting that is depleting the aquifer beneath the city, Mexico City is estimated to have dropped 10 meters in the last century. Furthermore, because soft lake sediments underlie most of Mexico City, the city has proven vulnerable to soil liquefaction during earthquakes, most notably in the 1985 earthquake when hundreds of buildings collapsed and thousands of lives were lost.

>>2727245
Not really. There was only one, which had competing states.

>>2728767
Unless Mexico ended their cartel tyranny in one day then I would agree with that statement.

>>2731284
>muh square pyramid wuz the biggest structure in earth
Yet still less impressive than something like the pantheon or Parthian. Or even gothic cathedrals.

>>2731429

>Yet still less impressive than something like the pantheon or Parthian. Or even gothic cathedrals.
Historical accuracy isn't a dick measuring contest. I don't know why eurofags always have to turn it into one. If European society was truly all that superior by a large margin their proponents shouldn't have to constantly undervalue the achievements of other civilizations at every turn.

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>>2731429
>bringing up any of that euroshit when things like skyscrapers exist

>>2731471
>muh inferiority complex
>muh square structure
At least it's a little better than African mud mosques.

>>2731481
Everyone has skyscrapers now though.

>>2731498
>inferiority complex

Friend, no one denies the achievements of Eurasia. Seems like you're the only one that has to downplay the achievement of other's. I wonder why..

>>2731524
It took them a while

>>2731525
The pantheon, Parthian and Gothic cathedrals are achievements of Europe. Not "Eurasia." This isn't the geology board. It's the history and humanities board.

>>2727066
sorry but there is no such thing as static culture or isolated societies. they were conquered because it was a completely different continent, with different relations with the environments and cultural exchanges.
they didn't need firearms or mercantilism, but were unlucky europeans had it and also boats and were savage beasts.

>>2731577

Yes, I used a term that ecompassed Europe as well as others. Your point?

>>2731531
Yea but nowadays Asians make them better.

Reminder that most white people probably descend from some fucking peasant that worked in a farm and not Isaac Newton or Julius Caesar.

>>2731577
>It's the history and humanities board.
>shits on every other culture despite basing its own on others
kek

>Arches appeared as early as the 2nd millennium BC in Mesopotamian brick architecture,[3] and their systematic use started with the Ancient Romans who were the first to apply the technique to a wide range of structures

>>2731605
This whole thread was a circle jerk of supposed aztech superiority of medicine and other things over all of Europe (not just Spain) yet as soon as someone calls out the Aztec's big square pyramid as not being the greatest fucking architectural achievement up until that point you flip your shit. The hypocrisy is astounding.

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>>2731429
>muh rounded building wuz the greatest accomplishment of all time
Literally name 1 (one) european building equal to pic related.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WaLRMq8sgYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE6Fy1s0pfU

>>2731638
>show proof
>lmao wewuz
>not an argument
>this is a circlejerk amirite? You are triggered!
Literally no argument, bud.

>>2731638

This thread's entire premise was to enable European dick measuring. See: >>2727053

Just because people came in with valid stances and debunked some shit, it doesn't make it a circle jerk.

>>2731660
>>2731641
>>2731662
Pyramids are babbys first attempt at structures. Especially square pyramids which is quite literally stacking blocks on top of each other ala legos. The coliseum, statue of Rhodes, roman aqueducts or even gothic cathedrals are far more impressive from an architectural or artistic perspective even if they are smaller.

>>2730533
>Using Olympics as an argument
Many third world countries athletes dont get full support of their goverment or school, in Mexico there was the case of a boxer that needed to beg in the bus to be able to pay for its ticket. So itnot much of the factor of genetics and more of who can go or can take most of its time training instead of helping its family. (Why first world countries mostly win).

>>2727053
STOP BELIEVING IN SHITSKIN PROPAGANDA!

>>2731682
>impressive
>work and relative technique
Jewels are precious too you know? Africa has tons of diamonds they must be the highest form of civilization.

>>2731703
People don't build diamonds. The structures I named were all designed and built by European ingenuity.

>>2731711
What about black music? Isn't it created? What about black culture? Isn't its appearance so attractive, that's why it's so popular?

If we use the rational side of our brain, the black culture is the prettiest of all.

>>2731725
Black culture is very crude, ugly and vulgar. The opposite of European culture.

>>2731739
mmm...You vs the majority, bud. It's so pretty, that people are engaged by it. Everyone wants to be a black guy. Everyone wants to meet a black guy.

People even protect them from any kind of past resemblances. Only freaks dislike them.

Also, black culture is everywhere in musical genres and artistic forms. Also, modern dances are pretty much developed partly by black men.

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>>2731682
>The coliseum, statue of Rhodes, roman aqueducts or even gothic cathedrals are far more impressive from an architectural or artistic perspective
literally just arches, invented by mesopotamians on top of it.
if judged the old world buidlings for its acoustics and astronomical features mesoamericans would be the greatest engineers of the world

>>2731753
>Everyone wants to be a black guy.
Where the fuck do you live? That's the opposite of where I come from. It seems like your stuck in the 90s or early 2000s. People (asians, Whites, ect) really aren't enamored with Black culture anymore. Perhaps it was Obama's divisive presidency.

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>>2731757
Amerindians couldn't even come close to creating a statue like this.

>>2728767
I really miss the Pan-Amerind movements I grew up in.

>>2731763
>doesn't disprove past points, only the bait part
>obama
Yep, you have nothing. Also, >>>/pol/ is a great place for your autism.
>>2731766
>come close
In which field?

>>2731783
>admits shitty post was bait
So you defeated your own argument?

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>>2731783
He's probably leaning on the meme of "realistic" Greco-Roman art, ignoring the fact it was always incredibly stylized.

But if we're going for 'realism' the Moche are pretty dank.

>>2731790
>ignoring the fact it was always incredibly stylized.
I'm not ignoring anything. The big square pyramid doesn't come close to the Colosseum or St. Peters Basilica. It's just stacking blocks. >>2731757
You really think Europeans didn't know all that astronomical stuff? They knew it before the Amerindians even crossed the Bering straight.

>>2731812
The whole thread is full of "it wasnt only the pyramids" yet you still compare many different buildings to only "stacked blocks". Maybe /pol/ or reddit could fit more your need for European circlejerk

>>2731812
Moche weren't pyramid builders, mate.

>>2731785
>9points
>but i don't like black people doe
Nope, not even a chance.
>>2731812
>before there were humans on america
If they had less time to do it you just defeated your own circlejerk, duh. That's what you literally was whining for.
>muh amerindian circlejerk
There is none. We are stating facts over here, and of course, there are some conspiracies, but they are just that, "conspiracies".

Now stop chimping out, please.

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>>2731766
And Old Worlders couldn't even dream pic related

>>2731812
>You really think Europeans didn't know all that astronomical stuff?
Depends on what we're talking about.
Their calculations for Venusian procession were better than ours until the modern era.

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>>2731812
>It's just stacking blocks
And the Colosseum just stacking arches

>You really think Europeans didn't know all that astronomical stuff?
Well .. >>2727277
>>The Classic Maya understood many astronomical phenomena: For example, their estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation as to the length of the tropical solar year was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived.[3]

>>2731853
Moreover, modern images sorta underplay the grandeur of these various pyramids which were covered in intricate reliefs, most of which were chipped away by looters and collectors, leaving bare stone; sorta like how the Great Pyramid at Giza was polished to a reflective sheen but the stones got looted for other projects leaving pretty well naked ugly blocks.

>>2729852
only reason I keep coming back

>>2731826
>mmm...You vs the majority, bud.
[citation needed]. Is it that all Whites are subconsciously racist or the majority of Whites love black culture. sjws need to get their propaganda straight.
> It's so pretty, that people are engaged by it.
Some people are engaged in everything.
> Everyone wants to be a black guy.
kek. keep dreaming.
>Everyone wants to meet a black guy.
Most people want to avoid black guys.
>People even protect them from any kind of past resemblances.
wut?
>Only freaks dislike them.
Nice ad hom.
>Also, black culture is everywhere in musical genres and artistic forms.
Musical forms? I'll grant you this. Of course normie music is trash now for a reason. Artistic forms lean towards modernism which doesn't really have much Black influences.
>Also, modern dances are pretty much developed partly by black men.
Not really.

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>>2731853
Creating arches is far more difficult than stacking blocks. You'd know this if you were over 13 years old.

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>>2731872
Mayans used arches, mate.

>>2731874
Notice how the roundness doesn't come close to >>2731853

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>>2731874

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>>2731878
K.
If roundness is your litmus test then I gotchu phamalam.

>>2731881
It still comes to a straight top, like a pyramid instead of an oval. The engineering required in making the oval shape is more difficult than one would think

Don't even get me wrong. I like Amerindian culture and think Mayans, Aztecs and Incas had impressive civilizations. I just hate the subtle europhobia on this thread.

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>>2731884

>>2731872
>>2731874

There was even one posted earlier in the thread kek. >>2730720

>>2731878
>the roundness doesn't come close
>reaching this hard

>>2731893
That's not round, buddo. Top is still straight.

>>2731870
>normie music is trash
>popular dance by black cultures are used all over the globe
The musical and dancing part is pretty true mate, deal with it.
Now are you gonna reject the popularity?

People like it, the past claims you dismissed, was based on this point. Keep denying it tho.

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>>2731890
>I just hate the subtle europhobia on this thread.
?

>>2731891

>>2731902
Still not rounded like >>2731853

>>2731874
>>2731881
>>2731884

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corbel_arch

Those are corbel arches, not true arches

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>>2731902
They were doing more impressive things with rounded brickwork at Edzna, but for use in cisterns.

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>>2731908
K.
What about the Inca?
Looks like a true arch to me.

>>2731899
Modern "dance" is so sporadic it really doesn't have an origin. You could make a valid argument modern dance clubs and dance moves are European in origin.

>>2731923
>dance clubs
That uses black tribes' derivatives dance and black based music.

>>2731929
Europeans have a long history of dance houses you retard. Centuries old. Put down nigger history for dummies for a second and pick up an actual history book.

>>2731938
You are denying the importance of black culture and how it dominates overwhelmingly past white based musical artistic movements.

The facts are there, mate.

>>2731890
>I just hate the subtle europhobia on this thread.
>Op ask What caused their stagnation?
>Anons show it wasnt stagnated at all
>They compare it to 300 BC Europe because OP also mentioned tech advancement against Europe
>Now the question is answered people start posting native content
>Poltards get mad and start trying to compare it Europe
The thread was never about fuck Europe, it was more about Natives werent african tier retards, they were a strong civilization but people in this thread also wanted to desprestige the great merits they developed by their own.

>>2731947
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_dance

The modern dance hall has infinitely more to do with link provided than African slaves banging drums.

>>2729237
Many of the pre-Cahokian mound building civilzations such as those at poverty point were hunter gatherers

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>>2731921
Looks like another case of "they had it but didn't really care".

>>2731956
>trivializing
Again, denying the fact that black musical culture literally overwhelms white based music is not an actual argument.

Also the fact that almost every popular genre has been based on mostly african influence.

Chill, mate. Just let the african engagement in your mind. People love it, people like african guys. European people have fallen in love with african culture, they can't stop thinking about it.

Join them.

>>2731976
>Also the fact that almost every popular genre has been based on mostly african influence.
That's just false. Pop music is more techno than anything.

>>2731890

>I just hate the subtle europhobia on this thread.
Tbh I enjoy European handiwork as much as the next anon, but I'm open towards other cultures and more often than not see merit in each of them. That's why when eurocentrists make obviously uninformed opinions about cultures with a great amount of quality, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth in a way that most other things don't. That tends to come up pretty frequently and is ingrained into certain individuals more than you may notice.

>>2731968
That's about a thousand years plus before the Mississippian cultures. By the time Cahokia came around the Poverty Point peoples had become the Plaquemine

>>2731980
Maybe in the whitest areas of europe, but even though France, Germany and Spain has a majority of white population, the widespread of black culture made it possible to get a black dance hall for white people to enjoy their culture, and it's increasing over time.

And I'm not putting an american example; you can literally look at them and sense the african influence in their way of speaking and choice of words. Let's not start talking about african-americans dance halls and how there are always white people on there.

>>2731739
I thought that was thug culture.

>>2731975
It's an irrelevance anyway in the sense that Europeans had everything the Amerindians had and then some. Including the pleb arch or "corbel arch" as it's called. It's like a C student bragging to an A student.

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From A.D. 600 to 1450, the prehistoric Hohokam constructed one of the largest and most sophisticated irrigation networks ever created using preindustrial technology. By A.D. 1200, hundreds of miles of these waterways created green paths winding out from the Salt and Gila Rivers, dotted with large platform mounds (see Illustrations 1 and 2). The remains of the ancient canals, lying beneath the streets of metropolitan Phoenix, are currently receiving greater attention from local archaeologists. We are only now beginning to understand the engineering, growth, and operation of the Hohokam irrigation systems.

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Holy shit the autism in this thread. And the argument was very interesting, actually. Both the wewuzers and everyone that gets butthurt at other people's achievements should leave this board and jump off a bridge.

quite simply, not enough domesticable species in the americas; only alpacas and llamas, which weren't very useful, so native americans had less reason to settle down and build cities plus they had no diseases to exchange with europeans, who had several more useful domesticable species, resulting in more cities (and technological advancement as a result) and diseases to give to natives at first contact

>>2731980
iirc techno has had some influences from Detroit

>>2731986
Its a forerunner to the Mississipian mound building though, believed to be related

>>2732013
Now that the goalpost is on the whole pack, you are still wrong. Have you actually read a book about the matter? The bait is so obvious now.

>>2732021
>wewuz
But we actually wuz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caral

this >>2732021
They got pretty sophisticated with the tools they had but they were not really exceptional and (through no fault of their own) their lack of iron and horses meant they were technologically inferior.

>did you say... "inferior"?!?!?!?!
Yes, I am an inferior runner to Usain Bolt, I am an inferior heart surgeon to someone with decades of med school and experience, I freely admit it and it doesn't hurt my ego at all yet you are severely butthurt that some distant ancestor 1000 years ago didn't have a horse you have to pretend potatoes are like crack. It's crazy and shouldn't be allowed.

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>>2732099
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caral

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>>2732115
>we wuz hanging gardens
Do you actually read anything or just measure it by how round it looks?

>>2732108
>technologically inferior
What does it mean. How do you define it :)

>came in to see a cool thread about native Americans
>got put on a 150+ post long thread because of some losers (probably a Canadian) inferiority complex
I want off this ride

>>2732143
anons seemed to have an idea of it here>>2730713

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>>2730533
I'm native

>>2732172
>construction and structural technology judgement
Did you mean in that sense?

Well, can you give us an argument supporting your claim?

>>2732174
No. You are a mestizo.

>>2732069
Goalpost was never moved. Amerindians are a C class civilization. Get over it.

>>2732195
People who matter don't agree.

>>2732195
>they are x
mmm...nope, sorry sweetie *drops mic*

>>2732190
Okay, you got me there.

>>2731524
The point is if you are judging against superior architectural technology then why stop there? Why not include modern wonders that BTFO everything humanity has ever accomplished previously?

>>2732174
qt3.14

>>2732190
Same thing really.

>>2731872
That lego is wildly inaccurate.

>>2732475
mmm...nah. Try again, honey *sips tea*

>>2732099
Yes, I'm only talking about the "the westerners could have never built something like that" kind of comments. I'm not denying that from some points of view the Mesoamericans were more advanced (like astronomy) or that their society was not incredibly complex and organized, in particular considering the fact that they started late and the geographical situation they lived in.

>>2732115
>>2732195
>>2732225
>>2732500
Stop being retarded.

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>>2732500
That tea best be coca leaf tea.

>>2727241
What

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>>2731582
>were savage beasts

>>2732549
>implying they weren't
>hmm?posting
Literally proving my point.

>>2732508
You are not a native. You are a rapebaby of an amerindian slave and a spanish patrón.

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>>2732549
>arrive to New World
>inhabitants invite you to their towns, show you their roads, crops, etc
>"mmmm, you know, they are relatively few and way to ignorant of our intention, what if we enslave them and conquer them?"

>>2732598
I'm actually of Japanese descent, but nice try.

>>2732608
>they are relatively few
That's a meme. Unless they encountered them post-diseases epidemic.

>>2732615
Key word, relatively, also, not everybody was the Mesoamericans towns and cities or the Incas.

>>2732598
Rape or no rape still descend from them.

>>2732628
Yet he isn't a native.
>>2732610
And I have negroid-amerindian and spanish ancestors :) but I'm not a native, get over it.

>>2727053
No horses so they were completely fucked.

>>2727230
ahh yes (((wikipedia))). excellent source there schlomo

>>2732824
Yeah because only jewish people uses wikipedia.

>>2732824

>make retarded statement obviously based in complete ignorance
>get introduced to an encyclopedia that's probably still above your reading level but worth a try
>immediately dismiss it and accuse wikipedia of being some sort of jewish thing

anon, you really shouldn't be calling anyone stupid.

I'll let you in on a little secret anonymous: History is all a Jewish ploy. The (Christian) God only created earth about 200 years ago.

>>2732832
you said it not me :)
>>2732839
seem to have struck a nerve. hmm I wonder why
>The (Christian) God only created earth about 200 years ago.
Ok, now I know you are just trolling. It's quite obvious that medieval history is post script fabrication, that doesn't bring us to only 200 years though. Maybe you shouldn't rely too heavily on (((wikipedia))) chaim

>>2732866
Poe's law. I don't even know if you're joking or not.

>>2732694
No one is calling you or me a native. Not sure what your point is.
>>2732824
Wikipedia has citations with sources. Learn how to use it.

@2732866
mmm...nope. Sorry, sweetie *sips tea*

>>2732620
The savage red man should have stopped pillaging European settlements. Like the Viking before them they deserved assimilation or destruction.

>>2732935
They should have stayed in their continents then. Ironic that now that it is affecting their homelands only now they suddenly have a problem with migrants from of another race in large numbers coming to there lands.

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>>2732981
The Amerindians were pretty stupid in their initial treatment of the Europeans, desu

>these pale face hairy humans with a different religion, culture and conception of reality just arrived from the East
>what do you mean kill them before they are too many? That's insane, they just want some land over there we are not using anyway, besides, they haven't done harm to any of us anyway
>record scratch

>>2733016
>what if ayy-lee-ens?
>all over western media and normal people
>"fuck the government for threatening the ayy lmaos!"
>"fuck you CIA!"
>"the ayylmaos must be laughing at us for this savagery"
White people-record scratch

>>2733016
In the case of the Inca and Aztecs (PARTICULARLY the Inca) they were under the cultural understanding that their civilization was about to get shitfuck #rekt by the gods so there was a pretty high degree of the "Fuck it, what happens, happens" sorta fatalistic attitude.

>>2733122
got a source for that claim? genuinely curious.

were their ancestors contacted by a demon and their religion set up so a thousand years later europeans coming in the "name of god" could wreck their empires and allow the jesuits to get filthy rich?

>>2733078
are you ok

>>2733160
The Secret of the Incas: Myth, Astronomy, and the War Against Time by Dr. William Sullivan.

>>2733078
>DURRR HOW DO I MEME

>>2733192
>>2733161
samefag
>>2733189
I'm pretty sure, the number of deaths by the diseases destroyed their hierarchy system and organization.

>>2733208
I'm not disputing that.
I'm simply saying they had astrotheological reasons for cultural fatalism BEFORE the plagues swept through.

Sullivan specifically deals with plagues in the text.

>>2733208
you're just being incoherent now

>>2727053
Well, Americas didn't really have any useful domesticable animal, so all the communication, construction, infrastructure and agriculture required more human labour, thus occupying an even bigger part of the populace to these tasks compared to their europeans counterparts

>>2732608
>>2732549
people have always conquered and pillaged who they could, its not some sort of european gene. Are native american tribes not "savages" when they attack each other? Are african tribes not savage when they attack each other? Was the whole world a peaceful and loving place before the white devil extended its satanic grasp?

>>2733338
meant for
>>2732598

>>2733338
>european gene
The colonization literally genocided the northamerindians and destroyed almost every piece of non-structural culture left by the mayans, aztecs and incas.

Get over it. *sips tea*

>>2733160
not that guy and i might be remembering this wrong but there was an incan prophecy about the empire coming to an end. fuck i cant remember the name of those paintings,i dont think they were paintings, just drawings.

>>2733369
The myths are recorded in Spanish manuscripts and deal with the sun no longer forming a bridge between here and the realm of the dead (milky way).

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>>2733338
Amerindians attacked each other because of years, centuries of fighting because of racial, religious and cultural conflicts; point is, they had a reason to hate and mistrust each other. There was no reason to hate or mistrust the Europeans, so they didn't act violently against them until it was way too late.

Its not about being a "savage" or not, the Amerindians didn't mistrust the Europeans because there was no reason to, but the Europeans had literally no justification to attack, enslave and simply mistreat the Amerindians.

>inb4 European conflicts, if we dont do it our European rivals will do it and get the land/resources

The Europeans were not specially "evil" nor did something that haven't been done before, but they were big cunts with peoples who were nice to them.

>>2732174
god, you're hot. /hm/? send nudes lol

>>2733386
>There was no reason to hate or mistrust the Europeans
A strange people from far away are to be trusted?
>Europeans had literally no justification to attack\
Not the gold, silver, various riches, women, glory, and land?
>but they were big cunts with peoples who were nice to them
no shit conquest is mean, so your point is that the europeans were especially mean because they won the game?

>>2733450
>strange people who aren't numerous looks like a treat
>conquest
Genociding and destroying almost every piece of culture. Good to know there is someone who admits it. Good job.

>>2733450
>A strange people from far away are to be trusted?

No, but neither mistrusted, why would the Amerindians hate or mistrust someone who never harmed them just because they were different?

Unlike the Old Worlders, Amerindians didn't have that latent mischievousness product of millennia of wars. Sure, they were different, but why would they think that those strangers they just helped were going to attack them at night in the center of the town you just invited them to sleep in?

Look what happened to the Incas, they feed and helped the Spaniards, just for them to attack from the inside when the warriors were sleeping.

File: 1486919708472.jpg (43KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

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>>2733482
>>2733357
pic related
>>2733493
you're right about the natives not having enough experience, but weren't the Spaniards confused and put off as well? To my knowledge, they were in danger from the rainforest and the natives were flexing hard. At least it happened at Cajamarca where atahualpa showed off his big dick and the spanish attacked because they were literally pissing and shitting themselves and because atahualpa threw a bible on the ground

>>2733493
>Unlike the Old Worlders, Amerindians didn't have that latent mischievousness product of millennia of wars.
The Inca sub/pre states (Sican, etc.) were in a state of more or less total cross warfare for like 800 years before the Inca expansion.

The South Mexican states were probably hostile migrants. The Mayan polities fought like Greek city-kingdoms.

>they feed and helped the Spaniards, just for them to attack from the inside when the warriors were sleeping.
The Inca likely (but not certainly) wouldn't have fought back even if the Spaniards said "in two weeks meet us on the hill with your best and largest army and whoever loses is gonna get buttfucked" with full warning, due to the aforementioned fatalistic psychocultural attitude. I think people misread the extent to which these guys were almost pissing themselves waiting on the Eschaton which their whole cultural complex insisted was just around the bend.

There was only supposed to be five last Inca kings according to Cuzco prophecy.

The Spaniards came under the rule of and killed the fifth.

That's GOTTA fuck with a people.

Imagine if Einstein said "We have five US presidents before WWIII." Then in the tenure of the fifth resource thirsty aliens land on the whitehouse lawn.

>>2733527
>atahualpa threw a bible on the ground
That's a thing too.
A lot can be chalked up to awful fucking communication and understanding of, well, everything about the Other.
Spaniards tried their usual "Submit to God and King" shit. Handed Atahualpa a Bible. Said it was the "word of their God."

Atahualpa, sane Andean that he was, having the phenomenology of sound play a massive role in their religious notions paired with choice of cultural drugs, riffled the pages near his ear. Said "I didn't hear shit" and tosses it to the ground.

Essentially it's a case of two extreme autisms REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing each other into a tantrum.

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>>2728767
>tfw the natives will finally get justice in the end

feels good man

>>2733563
>north amerindian
>literally myancestor:)-ing the incans
Nope. They have nothing to do with Mayans tho.

>>2733595
I don't wanna WE WUZ too hard w/r/t the Mayans but MCS-Z is found from the Yucatan through California, probably arising in the Sonora region.

genocide this pussy

>>2733683
You can't say without posting a pic.

>be a dirt worshipping faggot
>white man comes with shiny stuff ive never seen before
>wants a couple of my shitting streets for some beads and mirrors :O
>lmao what a dumbass, here u go! all yours!
>hundreds of years later chicken-necked numales and faggots signal and whine about how ruff of a deal i got and how ebil those white devils were
>tfw have no face because i ate a shotgun in a drunken stupor cause im a member of a failed race

>>2734283

>>2727385
>>2727277
>>2727230
>>2727269

>>2734296
>>2727385

The Indians had all the americas as a range. Way bigger than Iberia. Iberia itself didn't have easy contact with Japan. In fact it was probably easier for Iberia to reach America than Japan.

>>2734283
>ad-hominems and shitty strawmans
Lol /pol/acks just can't argue for shit

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>>2734313
>aww he hoit my feefees :(
>must be another pol raid!

@2734339
>no proofs or sources after an entire thread of giving them
>expects to be taken seriously

Stay butthurt boi :P
Last reply I'm gracious enough to give you btw

>>2734339
The thing is why are you coming to a history board and reducing the quality of conversation with an elementary school level of understanding and education on a topic you think you have authority on?

There is a lot of factual information presented in this thread that you can learn from. If you just want to masturbate to muh white superiority XD I'll redirect you
>>>/pol/

>>2727053
Not really. They didn't have much in the way of cereal crops (besides maize, which wasn't as large as it is today), pack animals, livestock with enough meat, etc. Although metallurgy was common to an extent, it was mainly used with gold and copper, with iron smelting being very rare.

>>2727230
The difference is the Old World built pyramids around 3000 years before natives

>non-whites
>capable of technological advancement

pick one

>>2727399
>>2728035
>>2734418

>>2734419
Funny since whites weren't the ones to start civilization.

>>2734431
>replying to b8

>>2732190
Most mestizos are more indigenous than card carrying natives in the US

>>2732598
>You are a rapebaby of an amerindian slave and a spanish patrón.
Not that guy but
>Tfw I'm the child of a native man and a Spanish woman
My dad flip flopped it on 'em.

>>2732694
Filthy zambo

>>2734419
Godamn anon, this goes beyond baiting people with low hanging fruit, this is just baiting with rotten rinds on the ground. Unless you honestly believe in this then I should ask if your parents were related, before they were married.

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>>2734981
Yes. An intelligent and big dick-ed zambo with a lot of wasted talents.
>>2734938
Still a mestizo.

>>2731694
>Many third world countries athletes dont get full support of their goverment or school, in Mexico there was the case of a boxer that needed to beg in the bus to be able to pay for its ticket. So itnot much of the factor of genetics and more of who can go or can take most of its time training instead of helping its family. (Why first world countries mostly win).
Then how is a mulatto country like the DR that is way poorer than Mexico and has 1/10th of the population outperforming them so hard? And even then 1/3 of Mexicans alive live in the US. Why are they so underrepresented in the US national team? The answer is simple. Amerindians have the shittiest genetics in the world other than abos. They are as ugly as asians and have the IQ of niggers.

>>2731086
The colysseum is way superior to any crappy pyramid. Pyramids are baby tier. That is why you can find them anywhere on the planet

>>2735322
Coliseum was also built far later than the pyramids

>>2735323
>Coliseum was also built far later than the pyramids
Which pyramids?

>>2735325
Egyptians of course. A fact that supports the idea that Amerindians started civilization later, thus developed later their culture. Also the lack of contact between the great cultures of the south and the north was a great hindrance.

Keep trying, sweetie. *sips tea*

>>2735328
>Egyptians of course.
Yes.Still they are baby tier infrastructure
> A fact that supports the idea that Amerindians started civilization later
BEcause they are dumber
>thus developed later their culture.
Sure
> Also the lack of contact between the great cultures of the south and the north was a great hindrance.
Natives didn't have cultures as they are not human

>>2735334
>got later into the american continent
>they weren't there because they were dumb
mmm...nope. Sorry, honey.
>natives didn't have cultures
Are you false-flagging or you are just retarded?

*drops mic*

>>2735345
>>got later into the american continent
They had some knowledge and technology when they migrated.They were in the stone age after 10000 years.Even Britons and Germanics advanced at a faster pace than umpalumpas
>Are you false-flagging or you are just retarded?
Killing babies is not culture.
>>they weren't there because they were dumb
>mmm...nope. Sorry, honey.

>>2735351
>even x advanced
Nope. They traded and learnt from other med-cultures.
>killling babies
Which cultures killed babies?
Also, do you know the definition of culture?

>stone age
Nope.
>faster pace
Lmao. If it weren't for sumerians and anatolia civilization you would be still on the stone age.

Deal with it.

>>2727230
wow, really impressive
except Egyptians did it 3000 years ago

>>2735390
Considering their lack of contact with many cultures and the later settlement, your sarcastic remark becomes a serious one.

*drops mic*

>>2735380
>Nope
Britons didn't trade ith medcultures and had the wheel an iron
>Which cultures killed babies?
Native """cultures""""
>do you know the definition of culture?
You have to be human to have a culture to begin with
>>stone age
>Nope
Yes they were stone age people
>Lmao. If it weren't for sumerians and anatolia civilization you would be still on the stone age.
>lmao
>You
I knew that you people were dumb but this is just a whole new level.
Also
>If it weren't for Spaniards you would be still in the stone age
Deal with it.

>>2735395
>Considering their lack of contact with many cultures
They contacted between each other just like Sumerians.The difference is that Sumerians were more advanced 5000 years before them
>and the later settlement, your sarcastic remark becomes a serious one.
Alredy debunked
>*drops mic*

>>2727394
thats comfy af

>>2735400
>britons
>when anatolia already had steel
Nice remark
>"
Nice argument
>human
Like savage genocide by catholicism?
Or animal-like berserk?
Or cruel pillage by the barbars?
Lmao
>u dumb
Not an argument.
>u would be on the stone age
Wow, such a great statement, can you back it up with some sources?
>each other like sumerians
Except the constant floods and the communication between large distances was a great struggle?
Nope, sweetie. Keep trying.
>5000 years more advanced than them
And their ancestors settled much before them. Thanks for proving my point.

*drops mic*

>>2735334
>>2735351

Modern humans are thought to have started colonizing Europe at around 40,000-45,000 years ago and by 20,000 years ago the entire continent had been settled, giving them roughly that amount of time to sit on their ass and build cities and their culture. Compare that to >>2728035
Even if they brought technology with them they weren't yet settled. They had a smaller window of time. Accept it

>they are not human
Go back to /pol/ you insufferable faggot.
>Killing babies is not culture.
How does virtue signaling help your argument? The Spartans are thought to have practiced infanticide.

>>2728347
Yeah but still they ended up getting conquered before the northern natives developed writing

>>2735431
Still not denying the past argument.

Give up.

>>2735422
>Nice remark
Still better than the stone age
>Like savage genocide by catholicism?
>Or animal-like berserk?
>Or cruel pillage by the barbars?
All humans unlike natives
>Wow, such a great statement, can you back it up with some sources?
Could you back up with some sources?
>If it weren't for sumerians and anatolia civilization you would be still on the stone age.
>Except the constant floods and the communication between large distances was a great struggle?
>There was no large distances or climatological difficulties elsewhere
>And their ancestors settled much before them
And achieved more in fewer time

>>2735436
Wasn't really trying to refute your whole argument, im just pointing out, in relation to when you said native technology wasn't stagnant, that the natives in north america failed to develop a written language by the time thr Europeans arrived to show how far behind in technology they got

>>2735082
>>>/mlp/
might be more your speed.

>>2727053
Maybe if the Aztecs weren't cunts.

>>2735311
>>2735334
>>2735351
>>2735400
Get the fuck out of this board, faggot. We are talking about mesoamerican civilizations (that, like it or not, were really cool, so low IQ my ass), go be a shitposting retard somewhere else. And yes, I know you are probably trolling or even a reddit or /leftypol/ false flag, I don't give a fuck. You have to go back.

>>2727167
>Native
Thats pretty priceless coming from a nigger.

Should go back to africa and see they're doing there.

>>2735475
>back up
Already proven if you use google search.
>and achieved more in fewer time
You were talking about amerindians, right?
>humans
Nice to see your subjective ((((definitions)))).
>better than stone age
You still don't get it sweetie, if there was another culture that already discovered iron metalurgy before bretons, that means that there is a possibility that they could have shared that culture or the knowledge had been spread by the first discoveres. *sips tea*

Still can't counter-argument the facts. Sorry, sweetie.

>>2735537
>Already proven if you use google search.
Nope.Natives achieved nothing remarkable.Sumerians 5000 before were more advanced.
>You were talking about amerindians, right?
Nope.Sumerians achieved more than natives in fewer time in every aspect
>Nice to see your subjective ((((definitions)))).
They are not subjective.It is empirical.They are close to humans as a donkey is close to a horse
>You still don't get it sweetie, if there was another culture that already discovered iron metalurgy before bretons, that means that there is a possibility that they could have shared that culture or the knowledge had been spread by the first discoveres. *sips tea*
Who brought metalurgy to the Britons? Please develop.The fact that the Britons were more advanced than any natie civilization is amusing

>>2735555
>sumer
>4500 B.C.
>developed writting system much later
Amerindians developed their protowritting 2400 B.C. even though they got there 10000 years later than humans to europe.
>fewer time
^
>empirical
>names
Yes, and they are called humans. What's your point?
>no proof of who brought metalurgy to the britons
Neither the amerindians, even though their contact between great civilizations was almost inexistent.
>amusing
Ignorance always is.

*sips tea*

>>2735570
>Amerindians developed their protowritting 2400 B.C. even though they got there 10000 years later than humans to europe.
They arrived with technology.Most experts even believed they had primitive boats.So they started with the technology that most asians had at the time.So your whole argument is just bullshit
>they are called humans
>Neither the amerindians, even though their contact between great civilizations was almost inexistent.
They didn't have any civilization.Just a bunch of barbarians sacrifying babies and virgins

>>2735555
>Sumerians 5000 before were more advanced.
>Sumerians achieved more than natives in fewer time in every aspect

Oh gee, so you're saying that the Sumerians managed to build their civilization before the Natives? Wow, I guess the fact that humans had access to that region for thousands of years before the Natives settled in the Americas has nothing to do with it then, huh?

>>2735585
>arrived with technology
Which culture?
>bullshit
Lmao literally what are you babbling about?
>not a civilization
Maybe repeating the same phrase will make it true the next time you do it.
*drops mic*

>>2735585

>they arrived with technology
[Citation needed]

>>2735586
>Oh gee, so you're saying that the Sumerians managed to build their civilization before the Natives? Wow, I guess the fact that humans had access to that region for thousands of years before the Natives settled in the Americas has nothing to do with it then, huh?
Natives had boats when they came to America.They didn't start from scratch.They were just extremelly dumb.If you ever travel Guatemala or Bolivia you would just know this

>>2735570
>amerindians developed proto writing in 2400 BC


Citation needed

>>2735555
>Sumerians achieve d more than native

Such as?

>>2735625
>Among the artefacts found at Caral are a knotted textile piece that the excavators have labeled a quipu. They argue that the artifact is evidence that the quipu record keeping system, a method involving knots tied in rope that was brought to perfection by the Inca Empire, was older than any archaeologist had previously guessed. Evidence has emerged that the quipu may also have recorded logographic information in the same way writing does. Gary Urton has suggested that the quipus used a binary system which could record phonological or logographic data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caral

Funny how their civilization was constantly treatened by dangerous floods.

>>2735390
>Someone far away did it first therefore not impressive
When you rediscover something independently, it's still impressive.

>>2735633
Literally in everthing.From Mathematics to metalurgy to writting

>>2735618
Dude, you're just some dishonest retard.
Fuck off will ya?

>>2735648
>math writing
Maybe more than the Wiki link I gave you even tho they got 10k years more to develop themselves, but not better than mayans. Sorry bud.

>>2735657
Sumerians had figured out modern geometry and some historians even claim that they had some primitive calculus.Natives never came close to Sumerians.Only a dumb as hell Mexican,Guatemalan,Peruvian or Bolivian could claim that crap

>>2735618

>Natives had boats when they came to America
[Citation needed]

>They didn't start from scratch
Even if, they were in a wholly different environment. Crafting snazzy new shit isn't the only factor towards development, y'know. Especially not in that era.

>If you ever travel Guatemala or Bolivia you would just know this
>muh anecdotal experiences
Fuck off.

>>2735618
What If I travel to Iraq instead? Will I see the greatness of the Sumerians?

>>2735667
>primitive calculus
And some historians claim that caral had knowledge of engineering fluid mechanics due to ther knowledge and prevention of floods.
Mayan structures and water systems overwhelms your cuneiform babble.

*sips tea*

>>2735667

Then I guess every historian that commends the Mesoamericans for having had advanced astronomical and mathematical systems is a dumbass Mexican, Guatemalan, Peruvian, or Bolivian. I have no idea why anyone would want to devalue their civilization so bad by dick measuring it with others. Anyone that's done actual research into the societies and isn't just spouting uninformed opinions knows what is true and what isn't.

>>2735648
Mesoamericans had writing and mathematics

>>2734301
Doesn't mean there was no conctact. Japan even got fireweapons from the Portuguese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_art