Nuremberg trials

Kangaroo court; the allies shoulda jost shot them instead of pretending like they were the impartial agents of Justice.

>>2674811
Like the Hague Tribunal. Same idea. The Nuremberg Trials is a fascinating subject but there's a lot about it that makes me angry.

>>2674811
>>2674828
>Assmad Nazis
Lyl.

>>2674796
Everybody commits war crimes. The loser is the only one to pay their dues.

>>2674796
Denazification in general was a joke. Too many Nazis and people supporting them weren't convicted. For me all the industrialists and politicians like Papen deserved death penalty.

>>2674854
Except the Nazis committed them more often and on a bigger scale than virtually anyone else, except the Japanese.

>>2674850
It's objectively true that the Nuremberg Trials were just a kangaroo court used to make the Allies look dignified and justify killing a bunch of Nazis

>>2674861
Of course, the Americans let off the Germans and Japanese who were of use to them, regardless of their crimes. Operation Paperclip, Unit 731 and so on.

>>2674850
You shit stop assuming things.
Murderers were judging murderers. Soviets were just as guilty as Germans.

>>2674863
Except historians and people who actually studied it don't think that. You are repeating shitty neo-nazi propaganda you found on revisionist sites. This is hardly 'objective truth'.

>>2674856
You know what's a bigger joke? Retributive justice.

>>2674872
It was even worse than that. Many Nazi judges and prosecutors survived because they were helped by their friends. Including many war criminals.

>>2674863
Yeah typically for totalitarian governments most Germans, Soviets and Japanese never got what they deserved. Now they're chasing 95 year old guards.

>The victor will always be the judge, and the vanquished the accused

>>2674898
Meant for
>>2674890

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>>2674863
>>2674811
>>2674828
>>2674873
>>2674899

stormfag revionism

>>2674899
Yet those who commited no evil were set free.

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The Nuremberg trials were totally justified simply because they STILL make Nazis assblasted to this very day.

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SAY IT WITH ME

DO IT AGAIN BOMBER HARRIS, AGAIN AGAIN AND AGAIN

>>2674949
Fuck off soviet apologist you're no different than a neonazi.

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>>2674796
my grandfather was in the trial AMA

>>2675016
get off the internet grandpa

>>2675000
>whining about X's trial when you are at Y's trial
Are all stormfags this retarded?

>>2675022
your dubz won't faze me

>>2675036
You're their best friend you tell me.

>>2675016
Really? Well ok....in any case Fritzsche is one of those obscure characters that I find pretty interesting because we don't know too much. Looks like he was just a guy who was a stand in for Goebbels as the "next best thing." Do you think after the trial he still believed in national socialism?

>>2675056
Same reason there is no "nuremberg trial" of the european colonialists or any other imperialistic forces in history : they won and they died a long time ago.

>>2674796

>raeder gets life
>doenitz gets 10 years

weird, the submarine proponent and actual nazi and temp-job fuhrer gets less than the big ship proponent career guy

this is a very very reddit thread.

>>2675171
It's because he was the "president" for like 10 days. They wanted to accuse him of some war crimes but then they realized that Americans did the same so they dropped it.

Of course if the same logic was applied to everything then there would be no trial as long as the Soviets were one of the judges.

>>2675183

i'm not disagreeing with the aim and intent of the trial, just surprise at anomalous outcomes.

it's not like the judges at nuremburg were worried about the hypocrisy of prosecuting nazis for firebombing cities when much of germany and japan was in ashes.

the nazis shouldn't have started the war. they brought it upon themselves.start shit get hit and all that...

>>2674796
No, they tried accusing innocent people like Hess and Speer who had nothing to do with the war.

>>2674872
It's not like anyone in Operation Paperclip ran a death camp. They were just scientists.

>>2675222
but unit 731 though

>>2675171
Doenitz surrendered to them so they probably went easy on him.

>>2674880
Lol no, even the one SCOTuS judge from that era tBought it was offensive they were pretending it was a real trial.


I think they should have just sent them to st Helena like napoleon. That way they are 'responsible' but out of the picture and German sovereignty is still preserved.

>>2675449
>That way they are 'responsible' but out of the picture and German sovereignty is still preserved.
Good fucking luck with that with emotions running high from the invasions, the holocaust, and WWI-tier "Germany is a fucking wildcard in Europe it constantly starts shit" thinking.

>>2674796
>>2674856
Tell me about Papen
He dindu right?

>>2674811

Look at the madd Fashi.

>>2674796
Should have almost all been shot immediately before the Germans got around to commuting their sentences and saying they wuz gud boys who dindu nuffin

>>2674796
>Do you agree with the sentences?

Most of them, Speer should have been put to death, tho, but sadly the Allies believed his lies that he was "the good Nazi" who dindu nuffin, when we now know that he hand-picked many of the slaves who died building his ugly vision of brutalism.

>>2676212
Source on 'hand-picked slaves'?

Why were non-combatants and people who had nothing to do with the alleged war crimes sentenced to death like Rosenburg?

>>2676212
Speer confessed to his priest that he lied to save his life. But Jodl? Might as well hang all officers.

>>2675449
They deserved to hang. Nazis were genocidal monsters, not just some random enemies.

This trial was a good thing. The allies compiled a lot of evidence. Even today many historians use it as a source. And let's not forget about its main goal - reeducation of German people. They wanted to show them the crimes committed by the regime they supported. For the same reason they shot Mills if War and shows civilians Nazi concentration camps.

But this policy ultimately failed and by 1949 myth about clean wehrmacht or 'it was all Hitler's fault', or the allies also committed war crimes were already very popular.

Adenauer's government was already full of former Nazis and his amnesties for Nazi prisoners were supported by the majority of population

The whole shit show was a farce because they accused the losers of crimes that only existed after the fact. Post ex facto laws aren't really defensible.

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>>2676333
>monsters

Spooky

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>>2676188
Papen was an absolute madman and a bit of an idiot who did a bunch of crazy shit during WW1 but he had no attachment to nazi ideology or the holocaust and his biggest 'crime' relating to the Nuremberg trials would be helping Hitler take power because he thought Hitler could be controlled as a puppet.

>Keitel and Jodl death
>Hess life imprisonment ????

>>2676639
Keitel could be linked to some fucked up shit.
I don't know about Hess. I guess being a card-carrying party member was enough since he didn't actually do much but Germany still managed to wage war on several nation while he was still an active Nazi.

>>2676648
I just don't get how Speer and others walked after like 5 years whilst the guy who was basically sidelined out of any power in 38-39 and then flew to the UK to try and negotiate peace 4 years before the war ended got life.

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>>2674978
DO IT AGAIN BOMBER HARRIS, AGAIN AGAIN AND AGAIN

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>>2676662
Because he was creepy.

>>2676662
His peace negotiating was more about getting britain on board (through a non agression pact) while the reich turned its sight fully on the USSR.

Makes you wonder why the brits didnt believe them in the slightest. Naturally they had to lock him up since an offer of peace would have stalled further the US entering the war. Not a classy move but pragmatically the right one, wouldnt have been smart to delay the hostilities only until the reich controlled russia - best to strike when they are split between two fronts.

>inb4 MUH PERFIDY
TopKek, imblying war is ever fair

>>2676693
It's pretty cool that he was basically the last high profile prisoner of the Tower after people like Edward V, Guy Fawkes and Walter Raleigh.

Why do stormfags argue that these men should have been spared?

So it makes sense for allied soldiers to kill axis soldiers but it makes no sense to hang the very men who ordered the soldiers?

>>2676708
Bad analogy, because enemy soldiers are killed when they pose an immediate threat to you or your comrades. You don't generally shoot them when they're disarmed and in chains.

>>2676708
so why didn't they hang all of the axis soldiers after the war? really thought this one through didn't you.

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>>2675000

>the classic "if you arent a retarded stormfag then you must be a tankie!" non argument

hey dumb dick, notice how the pic I posted shits on both communist and neo-nazis?

>>2674856
90% of Germans supported National Socialism, if you killed all of them the only people you'd have left would be filthy Jews and communists

>>2676980
You're a dumb piece of shit to suggest that pointing out that war criminals who started the war together with Germany should be also put on trial means I'm a nazi myself.

>>2676922

You do when they're Nazi filth.

>>2676970

The soldiers were mostly just poor schmucks tricked into throwing their lives away. It;s the leaders who deserved to die, and happily, they were mostly put down like the vermin they were.

Hm let's see

>Art.19 "The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence."

>Art.21 "The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof."

Look regardless of whether you're a stormweenie or not, if you actually believe the Nuremberg Trials were anything but a kangaroo court convened to make it look better that we were lynching a bunch of people, you're a fucking imbecile. They even charged Germans with war crimes the Soviets committed, for fuck's sake. They allowed hearsay as evidence, and they even convicted people like Karl Doenitz and Albert Speer, who had absolutely nothing to do with Nazi war crimes, as war criminals. It was a fucking sham.

BUT, the Allies conveniently didn't convict any scientists, engineers, politicians, or military personnel that could be useful to them later on.

>>2677128
Adding to this, this kind of bullshit continues to be used to this day when it comes to anything challenging the "hurrr durrr all Nazis are baby-murdering psychopaths who deserve to be lynched without a fair trial" narrative.

Remember when David Irving offered $10,000 to anyone who could provide PROOF that gas chambers were used at Auschwitz? Some Jew came forward and wrote a letter to a judge saying that he pinky-promised that he saw the Nazis do it, and the court ordered Irving to pay him the $10,000.

I don't care what your political affiliations are, what your religion is, or which historical theories you subscribe to: if you believe that """evidence""" like that counts for SHIT in a legitimate court of law, you forfeit your right to claim that you are only interested in "the truth." The truth does not fear investigation.

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>>2674796
History is written by the victors, jerry cucks

>Lieutenant David "Mickey" Marcus, a Zionist Jew who would eventually leave the US military to serve as the Commander in the Haganah, served chief of the US government's War Crimes Branch in 1946 and 1947, Marcus would select almost all of the judges, prosecutors and lawyers for the Nuremberg NMT Trials.
>The entire idea of the Nuremberg trial was the brainchild of Jewish Lawyer and officer Lieutenant Colonel Murray Bernays. It was Bernays, a successful New York attorney, who persuaded US War Secretary Henry Stimson and others to accept the idea of putting the defeated German leaders on trial.

>>2676693
PERFIDIOUS ALBION STRIKES AGAIN

>>2674811
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but didn't they not execute Otto Skorzeny because they couldn't prove he ordered his men to conduct combat operations while in disguise during Operation Greif? That does not seem like a verdict a kangaroo court would reach.

>>2678070
/pol/ argues that the Nazis were tortured to admit that the Holocaust was real before the court. You'd think Speer, Hess or even Goering or Streicher would've mentioned it at one point. Or the psychologists or the guards or anyone.

>>2677128
If any of the charges didn't actually happen, someone would have said something. The Nazis all knew they were going to die anyways.

>>2677128
If I may, those do make a bit of sense, at least as far as I can see. Art.19 seems like it would come into play due to the special nature of both the offense and trial. i.e. This tribunal has no fingerprints nor murder weapon, but has concluded that the defendant, Nazi McNaziface, killed 50 Jews, based off eyewitness testimony and orders given.


Art.21 would have use given that it was essentially an entire government being put on trial, and certain facts needed to be noted as a matter of course so as to facilitate orderly judicial proceedings. i.e. This tribunal accepts as judicial fact that the government of Nazi Germany invaded and occupied Poland, therefore no investigation into this event is required.

>>2674890
>It was even worse than that. Many Nazi judges and prosecutors survived because they were helped by their friends. Including many war criminals.
What's wrong with that? I care about love more than anything in the world. I would do anything to save the life of somebody I loved, no matter what they were guilty of. The family matters more than anything else.

>>2674796
It wasn't a pure kangaroo court however it was quite close , the fact they dispensed with the rules evidence and didn't prospective allied war criminals - including the Italians - shows it wasn't a sincere trial

>>2678085
>/pol/ argues that the Nazis were tortured to admit that the Holocaust was real before the court.
they're wrong

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>>2674978

DO IT AGAIN BOMBER HARRIS

AGAIN AGAIN AND AGAIN

>>2676639

Keitel was the brains behind Nacht un Nebel and Jodl had drafted the Commando and Commissar Orders.

Hess was in British custody for most of the war, so he didn't really have much of an opportunity to commit war crimes. Most of the crimes he was convicted of took place prior to the outbreak of war.

>>2678154
>If I may, those do make a bit of sense, at least as far as I can see

I would argue it does not.

Forensics is a tiny insignificant part of the law of evidence. The bigger issue is of admissability.

1).For instance abolishing this rule allows for hearsay

"ie we find McNazi Face guilty because Jerry heard from schlmo a story told by Aggie who saw 50 jews get killed" Want to hear Aggies original story and challenge it? too bad she isnt called as a witness to give evidence.

2. Prevents the defendants from having dodgy evidence thrown out before it being heard by and influencing the judge

3.Eliminates the burden of proof when it comes to admitting evidence.

>Art.21 would have use given that it was essentially an entire government being put on trial, and certain facts needed to be noted as a matter of course so as to facilitate orderly judicial proceedings. i.e. This tribunal accepts as judicial fact that the government of Nazi Germany invaded and occupied Poland, therefore no investigation into this event is required.

See the other part of 21 where it allows reports made by the allies to be accepted as part of this "common sense"

For example The Nazis being responsible for the Katyn massacre committed by the NKVD would be allowed to be accepted as "common sense" under this provision.

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>>2674796

The Allies should've just rounded up all the Gestapo, SS, Einatzgruppen, Sicherheitsdienst, and RSHA personnel they could get their hands on, taken them to their hometowns, and had an unironic Day of the Rope where they're all hanged in the town square simultaneously.

>>2679176
>Fritz Sauckel, head of the German wartime labor mobilization program, was sentenced to death at the main Nuremberg trial. An important piece of evidence presented to the Tribunal by the US prosecution was an affidavit signed by the defendant. (Nuremberg document 3057-PS.) It turned out that Sauckel had put his signature to this self-incriminating statement, which had been presented to him by his captors in finished form, only after he was bluntly told that if he hesitated, his wife and children would be turned over to the Soviets. "I did not stop to consider, and thinking of my family, I signed the document," Sauckel later declared.

>Hans Fritzsche, another defendant in the main Nuremberg trial, was similarly forced to sign a self-damning confession while he was a prisoner of the Soviet secret police in Moscow. (Nuremberg document USSR-474.)

>Nuremberg defendant Julius Streicher, who was eventually hanged because he published a sometimes sensational anti-Jewish weekly paper, was brutally mistreated following his arrest. He was badly beaten, kicked, whipped, spat at, forced to drink saliva and burned with cigarettes. His genitals were beaten. Eyebrow and chest hair was pulled out. He was stripped and photographed. Fellow defendant Hans Frank was savagely beaten by two black GIs shortly after his arrest. August Eigruber, former Gauleiter of Upper Austria, was mutilated and castrated at the end of the war.

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>>2679261

>it's another we're the assuming the defendant is being truthful when he claims he was hideously tortured despite detailed records of what happened to him being kept by prison staff and the fact he does not appear to suffer any ill effects of claimed injuries response

>>2679279
>The testimony of the prosecution's chief witness in the Nuremberg "Wilhelmstrasse" trial was obtained by threat of death. The American defense attorney, Warren Magee, had somehow obtained the transcript of the first pretrial interrogation of Friedrich Gaus, a former senior official in the German Foreign Office. Despite frantic protests by prosecuting attorney Robert Kempner, the judge decided to permit Magee to read from the document. During the pretrial interrogation session, Kempner told Gaus that he would be turned over to the Soviets for hanging. Tearfully pleading for mercy, Gaus begged Kempner to think of his wife and children. Kempner replied that he could save himself only by testifying in court against his former colleagues. A desperate Gaus, who had already endured four weeks in solitary confinement, agreed. When Magee finished reading from the damning transcript, Gaus sat with both hands to his face, totally devastated

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>>2679261

Also

>ywn whip Hans Frank's ass like a runway slave

feelsbadman

>>2679287
>whipping ass
What is it with Jews and coprophilia?

>>2679298

I'm not Jewish and scat definitely is not my fetish

>>2679305
Might as well be at this point.

Anyone who's interested in a source may enjoy reading this 1946 article by a US federal judge.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1946/04/nuremberg-a-fair-trial-a-dangerous-precedent/306492/?single_page=true#disqus_thread

It's his opinion that the trials did not constitute judicial justice, but rather an executive decision. To quote:

>Indeed it hardly lies in the mouth of any supporter of the Nuremberg proceedings to disparage such procedural considerations; for may it not be said that the reason that the authors of those proceedings cast them in the form of a trial was to persuade the public that the customary safeguards and liberties were preserved?

>>2679305
>note how the Jew assumes a southern identity to protect themself

The record is being corrected gentlemen

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>>2679312

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>>2679336

>>>/pol/ is that way faggot

There is a a lot of handwaving in international law.

>Germany and Japan are still enemy states of the UN.
Doesn't apply anymore. Don't concern yourself with it.

>Germany still does not have a constitution.
Don't concern yourself.

>The circumvention of the Anti-Bailout rule in the EU, because stupid Americans thought that single states could not go bankrupt on their own, because there was a supposed lender-of-last-ressort like in the U.S.

>Target2-saldi between EU states need not be paid of regularly like the similar interstate-saldi in the US.

Who cares anyway?

>>2674796
Stalin just wanted to line them up and shoot them by the tens of thousands.

If you read any part of the transcript of the trial (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp) one could see how they meticulously laid out evidence. If it was a kangaroo court it wouldn't have gone 280 days.

>>2678070
Skorzeny didn't hang because American commander came up to the court and said Americans did ops in disguise too.

Soviets defeated their aggressors, why the fuck should they be there? inb4 le you are kike

>>2679368
>>Germany still does not have a constitution.
>Don't concern yourself.
I live in the UK, we don't ethier, entrecnhed law is not a requirement for a modern state, as seen by the likes of germany and france.

>>2679117
>i will circumvent law and overlook the objective moral disregardment of my peers because they are my peers
Congratulations, you're a warlord without any power, please arm yourself and report to africa at your earliset conveience.

>>2679261
Unrelated to the original point. Still, Frank deserved it big time. And Streicher too I guess a little bit. Unlawful? Well so was the court itself.

>>2679368
>Germany still does not have a constitution.
It does though.

>>2679261
IHR is such a joke. About Sauckel and this important piece of evidence.

Dodd: My recollection is that in the presentation of the case on slave labor, we included this in our document book, but did not offer it in evidence. I think I told the Tribunal at the time that we had decided not to offer it.
The President: I do not understand how it gets an exhibit number if it is not offered in evidence.
Dodd: I do not either. I think it's an error.

The President: Were you aware Dr. Servatius was objecting to the document on the ground that it was obtained under duress?
Dodd: My recollection is that at the time of the presentation of the Slave labour case Dr. Servatius made some objection and I think that is what brought the matter up at that time. And that is why we did not use it.
The President: Very well. Then you had better pass from it.

I wonder how many of their articles are full of shit like that.

>>2677098
This.

The same should be applied to modern day Nazis (aka alt-right/gamergate).

>>2679261
>Nuremberg defendant Julius Streicher, who was eventually hanged because he published a sometimes sensational anti-Jewish weekly paper, was brutally mistreated following his arrest.
Good.

It shows that you cannot just say whatever you want. Words can be a form of violence too and instil violent acts in others.

We cannot allow for Nazis to hide behind the "freedom of speech" argument. This is exactly the tactic that modern Nazis like alt-right activists, gamergate, etc. use to legitimize their hate.

>>2679588
>It is good that a man was hanged for pointing out a dangerous group of people in his country
> Words can be a form of violence too and instil violent acts in others.
>because violence is wrong
>but thankfully he was killed

You just really suck at what you do.

>>2679561
At least the IHR refers to actual Nuremberg documents and not SENSATIONAL FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS FROM SURVIVORS>

>>2678085
Not him but I would argue that Speer, Hess and Goering were too high profile for torture. You wouldn't torture the political leaders since you need to put them on trial publicly and ruin their legacy in front of the world. If anything you would torture their subordinates in order to generate incriminating evidence that way.

>>2679600
Oh so you think real historians use only eyewitness testimonies? Holocaust controversies blog constantly cites German documents, military reports, memos and similar evidence.

And if 10 different people say something similar it's very likely that it's true. If we disregard testimonies then we can pretty much stop studying history because most of our knowledge is based on subjective accounts from the past.

>>2679619
If 10 different people suing a company over some claim, say being burned by it's product, and they all were related and had something to gain, and had a history as opportunists, would you take that into consideration?

Or are you the kind of alruist who always falls for a David versus Goliath story?

>>2679613
Goering was incredibly smart. He would've used it against them immediately.
Unfortunately for nazi apologists there are also pretty detailed statements made by Wisliceny, Ohlendorf and Hoess.

>>2679552
It does not.

Wehraniggers need to die

>>2679947
I don't think people from Wehr were tried in Nuremberg.

Was their reaction to the verdicts ever recorded?

>>2676333
But humans are monsters. How does monster killing other monsters become any more monster?

>>2674811
Another idea. Since Soviet war criminals judged German war criminals (and British and Americans weren't saints themselves) why weren't Germans judged by neutral countries (Switzerland or Sweden)?

>>2676333
>myth that the Allies also committed war crimes
>Soviet Union takes over half of Europe

>>2679945
The Basic Law is a constitution. Just because there were political reasons not to call it "constitution" in the 1940s does not mean it is not one.

From a historian's perspective, it's a pity that people like Göring or Keitel didn't get life sentences, I'm pretty sure they could've given us more insight had they lived some 20 years longer, kinda like Speer.

>>2680112
I'm genuinely confused as to what crimes we're supposed to pretend Göring was sentenced to death for

>>2680170
Planning of war of aggression, involvement in the "final solution" and Wannsee Conference (authorization given to Heydrich).

>>2680112
it takes so much effort to disentangle the truth from the lies in speer's postwar bullshit that i'm not even sure you can call it a positive contribution to history.

>>2680212
Göring would be only a curiosity somewhat more intersting than crazy Hess. He would never be truthful about anything.

Dönitz as a soldier might've been more trustworthy. And he despised Speer.

I wonder if any of the defendants was a decent person. Maybe Funk.

>>2680183
>One single copy of the Protocol with circulated minutes of the meeting survived the war. It was found by Robert Kempner in March 1947 among files that had been seized from the German Foreign Office. It was used as evidence in the Subsequent Nuremberg Trials.

>After World War II Kempner returned to Germany, the land of his birth, to serve as assistant U.S. chief counsel during the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg. In a reversal of fortune, Kempner would prosecute two of his former superiors and persecutors — Göring and Frick.

>As a law student Kempner sat as an observer in the trial against Soghomon Tehlirian, who had assassinated Talaat Pasha in 1921, and made his defence an impeachment on the Armenian Genocide and Talaat's involvement in it.

what an incredible coincidence. what are the odds that a lawyer with a personal grudge towards the defendants would happen to find the only surviving copy of the genocide being planned? surely Yahweh himself must have blessed this mans fortune.

>>2674811
This.

I don't even see why the Nuremberg trails were a thing.

Countless other genocides with longer lasting effects have occurred throughout history, and no one bother punishing the perpetrators of those.

>>2680284

What are the odds that a lawyer searching though the official files for evidence in the immediate aftermath of the war should be the one to find it?

Seems perfectly reasonable, actually.

>>2676922
But that's literally what Germans did to surrendering Soviets.

>>2680336

Not all of them, they starved quite a lot of Soviet POWs to death in camps as well.

>>2680284
I think I prefer it when conspiracy nuts think that everyone was tortured and every survivor was lying. Stupid but at least it's not denying the existence of such statements.

>>2680309

Such as what genocides, and were the perpetrators then defeated after a lengthy, costly war and captured? Because I'm sure you're also aware that throughout history prisoners have been executed for less.

Not to mention going "We didn't handle it this way hundreds of years ago" is a shit argument. There's a lot of shit that was once acceptable in history that since became morally reprehensible and vice-versa.

>>2679588
You're a complete retard. You're worse than the Christians who want to ban Islam. It's a lot easier for the government to take YOUR rights away after you've already established that they have the power to do so.

>>2679588

I meet too many leftists (and plenty of /pol/tards too) who think it's all fun and games to police speech. "They're just nazis (/SJWs)" always seems to be the go-to, "they are scum! They don't deserve free speech! what they say is harmful to society!"

I wish I could say I wish to see the day that they realize all the same censorship and punishment apparatus for 'talking about the wrong things' can be flipped very easily back on them once its in place, but I'd rather not see it happen at all.

>>2680344
All I'm saying is that the Nuremburg Trails seemed a bit harsh considering that The Holocaust didn't damage the Jewish populace in the long run, was cleaner and more efficient than most genocides, and when 80% of the perpetrators were just people following the chain of command.

>>2680284
I hope you realize that Goering and Frick died in October 1946. What would be the point of forging this document after their death? And why would Eichmann confirm it authenticity during his trial?

>>2680357
>All I'm saying is that the Nuremburg Trails seemed a bit harsh considering that The Holocaust didn't damage the Jewish populace in the long run

Well first of all that's a silly point because the trials took place in 1945 - 1946, this may be a shocker but when discussing history it is best to remember the people involved didn't know what would happen in the future.

Secondly the Jewish world population would almost certainly be much larger than it is today without the Holocaust.

>>2680357
Why are you thinking it was only about the Holocaust? And how was it harsh? They started a total genocidal war, murdered millions of people, enslaved even more, they wanted to destroy whole ethnicities, either by physical extermination or by mass deportations to Siberia.

>>2676676
dat aryan face

>>2680362
People like Hoess, Eichmann and Brunner, who felt no remorse and didn't even hide any details, are like embarrassing family members to nazi apologists. They may like them but they still want to hush them because they talk too much.

File: not.jpg (11KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 480x360px

NEIN

>>2680368
>the Jewish population would be much larger
In our currently overpopulated planet, you say that like it's a good thing.

The bloodshed of the Crusades and the bombing of Japan had larger impacts on the nations they happened in since they changed that society forever.

A death toll is nothing more than a number in the grand scheme of things.

>>2680357
>Nuremburg Trails seemed a bit harsh considering that The Holocaust didn't damage the Jewish populace in the long run, was cleaner and more efficient than most genocides

Congratulations, you actually managed to trigger me with your moronic post.

I am used /pol/ tards claiming the holocaust was fake, or the jews deserved to die. But this is a whole new level of retardation.

You are seriously claiming that the people who organized and perpetrated the torture and wholesale murder of millions of people were treated "a bit harsh" at the nuremberg trials?

So if you murder people in a "clean way" its not as bad? as long as the population survives murder is ok?

kys

>>2680401

Oh well. I guess culling a few Germans was justified because it helped make the planet less populated so why complain about it being harsh? A Nazi is just a collection of cells in the grand scheme of things, don't get so sentimental.

>>2680401
Well since the planet is so overpopulated, and killing people is ethical in your worldview, you could just kill yourself for the worlds sake.

>>2680084
I think it's a mess.

From Wikipedia:
>The term basic law is used in some places as an alternative to "constitution", implying it is a temporary but necessary measure without formal enactment of constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany#The_Basic_Law_and_the_Legal_Status_of_Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Germany

I mean look at this shit:
>It is common ground that no effective national government of any sort existed in Germany in May 1945 following the surrender of the German High Command; and that all national military and civil authority and powers were thereon exercised by the four Allied Powers. The Allies then maintained that as the former German Reich no longer existed in fact; so, as the 'highest authority' for Germany, they were entitled to assume all sovereign powers without limitation of scope or duration and could legitimately impose whatever measures on the German people within German national territory as any government could legally do on its own people - including validly ceding parts of that territory and people to another country. They argued furthermore that international conventions constraining occupying powers in wartime from enforcing fundamental changes of governmental system, economic system or social institutions within the territory under their control - the Hague Regulations of Land Warfare and the Geneva Conventions - did not apply; and could not apply, as the termination of Nazi Germany and the total Denazification of German institutions and legal structures had been agreed by the Allied Powers as absolute moral imperatives.[2]

Germany is also still an Enemy state because otherwise they would have to pay reparations according to the "Hager Landkriegsverordnung" or something.

They also cut-off parts of Poland and Germany and got rid of all those pesky Germans in new Polish territory and Bohemia.

(Note: My Grasp on Eur. Territorial History is shitty.)

>>2674861

Tell that to the Ukranians.

>>2681256
Most of them actually joined the Soviets when they realized the Nazis aren't liberators. I'm not even sure if the famine from 1930s was blamed on Stalin and his regime.

>>2680971
Look at what? There is nothing about German constitution in your quote. By 1955 West Germany was already a sovereign state. Basic law worked perfectly fine for West Germany and works well for unified Germany. There is no reason to change it.

They were far too lenient desu.

Bare minimum, every volunteer in the Waffen SS should've been executed.

>>2681322
The process is fucked until they do a full plebiscite on a new constitution.

But they won't. Someone also suggested that you wouldn't want the current ruling parties to write a constitution.

"It worked fine" is just handwaving. Though they might as wall wave until the end of time.

Ukraine is similarly fucked, but that's a different story altogether.

>>2681338
Fun fact: Waffen SS was also considered clean like wehrmacht. Pretty much all political parties pushed this narrative. For them only Allgemaine SS and Nazi leadership were considered criminals.

>>2681374
What process? Like I said, there is nothing wrong with this constitution. Some countries don't even have a written constitution.

>>2681374
>>2679368
>>2679945
There is huge consensus among German scholars of law that the Basic Law constitutes a constitution.

This is a non-issue.

>>2674796
It was not justified for the reason, that there was no actual international law which could have been used. But the cases where mostly fair, with a few mistakes, and it would have been even worse when those persons could have just gone free.
For that reason it was justified.

>>2681374
Because the majority of germans, 78,5%, did participate in the first vote it is generally said that, that fullfills the role of a plebiscite

>>2680068
Because post-World War II was about the eliminating the Hunnic Menace once and for all hence how de-Nazification was predicated on the idea that the Nazis only happened because of inherent German psychology, demonization of Prussia, pushing of history (some of it written by ex-Nazis) pushing the idea that Germany itself was the source of all great evil more or less, etc.

>>2676333
>For the same reason they shot Mills if War and shows civilians Nazi concentration camps.
It wasn't even that, they literally were telling citizens, more or less, that they were responsible for what happened and forced them to dig mass graves for the dead Jews. It's pretty much fucked up.

>>2674796

Totally disagree with the sentences.

They should have performed medical experiments on them instead.

This is getting ridiculous:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/apr/18/opening-un-holocaust-files-archive-war-crimes-commission

Plesch, who is the director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at Soas in the University of London, had to get special permission to read the documents, which were closely guarded by the UN in New York.
Only researchers who received authority from their government and consent from the UN secretary general were allowed to read them, and they were not allowed to take notes or copies. Plesch helped persuade diplomats, including the then US ambassador at the UN, Samantha Power, to release the secret material.

“This is a huge resource for combating Holocaust denial,” Plesch said. “The German national authorities were never given access to the archive by the allies after the war. All of this has never seen the light of day.”

>>2681430
That one? 78% of West-Germany. Countless people still prisoners (of war) of foreign powers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_German_federal_election,_1949

Just vote according to that Basic law we have allowed you to write?

(What about those contracts and stuff the foreigners agreed to in Germany's name or made them agree to. (Just abolish Prussia.))

I looked into the Teilsstaaten and it seems that there were Elections in 1946/1947 in all of them, except the lost territories (which they already had in 1937).

I wish I had a clear chronology at hand. The German wikipedia page on the History between 1945 and 1949 quotes a historian that calls this part of History one of the most complicated stages in Germany's History.

I also haven't looked into the legitimacy of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Control_Council .

Though a quick glance into the Haager Landkriegsordnung of 1907 tells that they probably played fast and loose if it suited them.

>>2681430
>it is generally said that, that fullfills the role of a plebiscite
It wasn't a plebiscite about t. Basic Law.

>>2675188
Actually they were. The bombings of London, Rotterdam, etc where never brought up

>>2682349

The only mistake was in allowing G*rms to vote and not simply executing them all.

>>2678085
My grandma lived on a street and everyone except her was jewish, all her friends where jewish. They all got taken away and never returned, their stuff was found in auschwitz. How the hell can the holocoast be fake

>>2682414
>My grandma

Bullshit. How old are you, 50?

was there actually a single allied person convicted?

>>2682462

They've been court-martialled by their respective armed services for any misconduct

ex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_prisoner_of_war_massacre

>>2682788
>The worst massacre at a POW camp in US history
[laughs in Confederate]

>>2674854
Teddy Roosevelt actually went to some lengths to prosecute american servicemen who had documented evidence of atrocities during the Philippine-American war
It wasn't the most popular war with congress, and in a way it was a means of easing bipartisan tensions over the war.

>>2682459
>Bullshit. How old are you, 50?

Nice math skills anon, someone born in 1935 - young but old enough to have solid memories of the period - would only be in their early 80s. Easily in the realm where one could have grandchildren under 30

>>2678085
They were tortured. It still happened, but a lot of Nazis got their shit kicked in during the trials.

The holocaust was real, but the trials were a huge sham.

>>2682879
>Teddy Roosevelt
Was it possible for that man to do anything that wasn't perfect?

>>2683516
Of course! He can do anything! He should have easily been able to do something that wasn't perfect!