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Why does /g/ hate Windows?
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Why does /g/ hate Windows?
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The question is, why do everyone with advanced computer knowledge hates windows?
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They hate it because it's propietary software.

Jk, windows is shit and people use it because it's the most compatible OS.
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>>40329043
I hate windows because I've been using computers since the 80s.

I really don't think I need to say anything else, windows is fucking horrible.
>>
They hate it because it's popular and /g/ wants to be special snowflakes. They won't admit it. They use CLI editors over a graphical IDE because it looks like something out of a hacker movie and that makes them feel "1337". They're the technology equivalent of tumblristas who call themselves polygendered.
>>
>proprietary
>poor design choices

really every problem any of us have with Windows can be boiled down to one of those two
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>>40329210
/thread

we're done
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>>40329247

>poor design choices

What is a poor design choice that doesn't have a trivial 30 second fix?
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>>40329125
Because they lack advanced computer knowledge.
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bandwagonism
poseurism
etc
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Actually I don't know anybody liking Windows. The only good point is the third party software, like fb2k or mpchc.
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>>40329292
>What is a poor design choice that doesn't have a trivial 30 second fix?
Are you retarded? If you can fix it that doesn't change the fact that its a poor design choice. How about you use an Operating System that isn't broken by design, no matter how "quickly" you can fix it.
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If someone doesn't appreciate Windows, they've never had to manage an environment with hundreds of desktops.
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>no package management
>bloated and massive
>horrible design
>plagued with legacy code
And of course the most important one:

>proprietary
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>>40329340
>How about you use an Operating System that isn't broken by design, no matter how "quickly" you can fix it.

How about a specific example like I originally asked for?
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>>40329043
Meh.

Some Windows versions are ok.
Some are not.
Microsoft is greed driven.

Things like that.
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Non-free. Everything else is just a bonus.
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>>40329363
Here you go.
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>>40329292
>NTFS
>Windows Update
>no package manager (Chocolatey is pitifully low quality)
>30 second fixes

I guess feces can taste like chocolate if it's all you've ever eaten.
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>>40329396
I'd say /mnt and /media or /bin and /sbin are uselessly fragmented too.
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>>40329360
>no package management
WSUS. I'm even using it to push third party software.

>bloated and massive
Only if you use the computer manufacturer's default install, which no competent person does.

>horrible design
Examples?

>plagued with legacy code
I'm sure every new Linux release is built from the ground up.

>proprietary
I'd rather run a product created by people who are paid well than some neckbeard in his basement.
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>>40329347
>they've never had to manage an environment with hundreds of desktops.
They haven't even managed to use their own computer. They can only use google to be script kiddies and parrot what they read. All that without any experience or knowledge about the reality. Those who actually posses it, use what they want and need and don't care about other OS.
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>>40329363
The kernel render fonts.
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>>40329396
Uncomfortably relevant.
http://secretgeek.net/ex_ms.asp
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>>40329424
/mnt is for manual mounting, /media is used more as a sandbox for automounting utilities. /bin and /sbin should be in /usr, though, if the tards that maintain Arch can do it then anyone can.
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>>40329465
I know it, but there's no point other than principle for separating them.
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>>40329043
They hate it because it works.
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>>40329404

>NTFS
What the hell is wrong with NTFS? I've never had an issue with it.
>Windows Update
If you take a few minutes to configure it, Windows Update is fine.
>no package manager (Chocolatey is pitifully low quality)
I don't see this as a problem. Windows doesn't have dependency hell like *nix so no elaborate systems to resolve dependencies needed to be developed.
>30 second fixes
Yup.
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>>40329492
As a windows and GNU/linux user, NTFS is pure shit compared to ext4, ZFS or BTRFS. And the dependencies are DLLs.
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>>40329492
>>
>>40329463

This was debunked a long ass time ago. '

The reasoning behind some of the fucked up folder names is MS wanted to force lazy developers to handle spaces in paths properly.
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>>40329430
>WSUS
Only first party software and software you manually update to begin with.
>Only if you use the computer manufacturer's default install, which no competent person does.
It's so godawful that no sane person can use it without tedious manual modification with no assisting utilities. Got it.
>I'm sure every new Linux release is built from the ground up.
Linux still fits in a ~50mb tarball. When was the last time anyone needed WinSxS?
>I'd rather run a product created by people who are paid well than some neckbeard in his basement.
So do I, which is why I avoid Microsoft's underpaid Indian code monkey force and instead opt for software sponsored by multinational corporations and developed by dedicated maintainers who actually care how good their product is.
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>>40329396
You *nix fags always talk about how the linux older structure is so much better hurr..
Well it has some good things but some things are horrible. It could take a re-organization AND re simplification because it's anything BUT SIMPLE.. HURR DURR KISSS.. yeah right.
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>>40329520
>league of legends
>>
Have you ever seen a Windows desktop that looks as good as my Arch desktop? Fuck no.
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>>40329492
NTFS is slow and fragments

Updating a system should take nowhere near as long as it takes in windows, why does it need to constantly edit the registry over and over and check the checksums so much when doing it? Its hilariously inefficient.

Package management is such a killer feature, every other operating system is using it. Any arguments against it are pure nonsense.

Why are you defending this bloated monstrosity?

Its fucking terrible.
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>>40329520
Not the guy you replied to, but looking at your programs, you must be quite a faggot.
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>>40329515

multi billion dollar corporations are running business critical apps on NTFS without issues.
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>>40329125
i don't hate windows and i am a fuckin CCNP
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>>40329555
Does the desktop really matter at all once you start opening programs? Or is your computing experience pretty much defined by turning on your computer and looking at the time on top of a minimalist picture of an anime girl?
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>>40329565
Probably not since server's world is more GNU/Linux and *BSD.
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shit like this >>40327848
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>>40329565
They aren't keeping mission critical data on NTFS.

They do that on zfs
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>>40329492
>What the hell is wrong with NTFS? I've never had an issue with it.
Works On My Machineā„¢ is not a valid argument. It's useless on any computer with a modern hard drive, and only brings disadvantages from there.
>If you take a few minutes to configure it, Windows Update is fine.
Oh, except when random updates fail for no discernible reason UNDER THE RECOMMENDED SETTINGS and even trivial updates take an hour and a reboot to apply. Yay.
>I don't see this as a problem. Windows doesn't have dependency hell like *nix so no elaborate systems to resolve dependencies needed to be developed.
Are you trying to Gish gallop me? Only Windows still has dependency issues, since every fucking program from Steam needs its own Visual C++ redistributable. How efficient.
>Yup.
Retard.
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>>40329556

>Updating a system should take nowhere near as long as it takes in windows, why does it need to constantly edit the registry over and over and check the checksums so much when doing it? Its hilariously inefficient.

I don't understand why people talk shit about Windows Update. They download a version of Ubuntu that was released a month ago, install the two updates. Then they get a copy of Windows 7, which was released 4 years ago and hurr Windows Update takes so long.
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>>40329618
I'm sorry, but while being against Windows, the dependency hell Anon was talking about was about the user's side.
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>>40329618
>Only Windows still has dependency issues, since every fucking program from Steam needs its own Visual C++ redistributable. How efficient.

So when I install a program on Linux and need to also install 20 other programs to get it to work that doesn't count as dependencies?
>>
ITT: nix-tards who try to make good arguments for their shitty OS
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>>40329632
I've installed Ubuntu 10.04 almost 2 years ago, and upgraded to 12.04 from it
It took a few hours, almost entirely downloading, installing stuff was about 30 minutes or so, then a single reboot, of which the entire actual upgrade process, I could still use the machine fine.
With windows, I need to watch it with the little cursor spinning, unable to do anything as each update applies
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>>40329632
Even older LTS versions from YEARS ago still update MUCH faster than Windows 7 today, since instead of procedurally installing every pointlessly mutually interdependent patch one by one, it just downloads and overwrites every existing package with the newest version, maybe pulling in and removing some extra packages as dependencies change. Fast and easy.
Windows isn't exactly Satan in a disc image, but when it comes to software upgrades, the Unix-like world knows what it is doing.
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>>40329658
>So when I install a program on Linux and need to also install 20 other programs to get it to work that doesn't count as dependencies?
but that's done automatically, you don't need to go looking for the actual DDLs on msdn or some shady site

>>40329662
at least make your bait reasonable
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>>40329662
it's not shitty.
i still use win8.1 as media center because drivers but linux is okay system.
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>>40329210
This.
Windows is still shit though.
The registry is a mess.
The filesystem is a fragging hell.
You have to reinstall Windows after some time because of how clogged up the thing gets.
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>>40329647
Dependency hell is an RPM issue. From a decade ago. If you're talking about PEBKAC software management, there is no technology in existence that is sufficiently as advanced as a person's capacity to fuck things up.
>>40329658
Nope, because these programs are dynamically built, so you only need one instance of a package installed to use every single other package that needs it.
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>>40329531
>It's so godawful that no sane person can use it without tedious manual modification with no assisting utilities. Got it.

What an OEM bastardizes an OS into is not the OS's fault.
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Windows 7 is a fine desktop OS.
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>>40329711
>The registry is a mess.
>The filesystem is a fragging hell.

no it isn't
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>>40329737
It is if you let it happen. Android is the same in this respect, actually.
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>>40329743
it fucking is, stop shilling good lord.
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>>40329727

Except Linux is all about choice so every package has different competing dependencies.
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>>40329697

I haven't had to do that on windows either. It's also not automatically done on Linux if you install from source instead of the package manager.

I think Windows and Linux both have their uses and people should use what they prefer but there is no reason to make up petty problems. They are both easy to use.
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>>40329743
>>registry not a mess
it's such a mess I can't even give an example, just go into regedit and pick anything
>>filesystem
>win32 has 64bit binaries
>64bit stuff in SysWOW64
>WOW
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>>40329766
Package managers either prompt you to pick your dependency, or automatically download the most suitable one. It's easy to swap them out without touching the dependent software.
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>>40329711
>You have to reinstall Windows after some time because of how clogged up the thing gets.
Not if you know what you are doing. As thing goes, most *NIX complainers I spoke to, don't know as shit.

People who knows how to use computer don't care about Linux vs. Windows, thy just use what they need.
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>>40329492
>I don't see this as a problem. Windows doesn't have dependency hell like *nix so no elaborate systems to resolve dependencies needed to be developed.
lol
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>>40329711
>You have to reinstall Windows after some time because of how clogged up the thing gets.

I have windows 2000 boxes that were installed before you were born that are fine.
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>>40329727

Everything isn't in the package manager.
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I actually like Windows 7. I have no idea what I'll do in 2020 when support for it drops. I guess Linux will be even more usable by then. I already could get by with it. Games probably won't be a problem either.
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>>40329790
*32bit stuff in SysWOW64

>>40329784
>It's also not automatically done on Linux if you install from source instead of the package manager.
it's kind of fucking obvious if you manually install something without an auto uninstall script, it wont fucking have an uninstall script
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>>40329760
no, not really

when did you last need to open the registry? and ext also defaults to fsck every 24 mounts too you know, whereas ntfs quietly defrags itself in the background. im not a shill, your arguments are just desperate
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>>40329807
Nothing stopping you from adding well trusted third party repos, which won't spam you ads while trying to get a program.
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>>40329795

>$packagemanager install package
>dependency of package conflicts with dependency of alreadyinstalledpackage

fuck
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>>40329292
the low battery indicator is triggered by the percentage remaining and not the estimated time remaining.
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>>40329823
>when did you last need to open the registry?
few days ago, windows fucked up one of of the "default libraries" folder and there was no other option besides fiddling in registry.
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>>40329797

This is not typical.
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>>40329820

I know it's fucking obvious. It's still fucking stupid to be on here pretending Windows is hard to use. They are both fucking fine. They are operating systems used to operate a computer. You bitches spend so much time crying about operating systems instead of using them to run fucking useful programs. An OS is only as good as the software it run.
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It just seems that way recently because more and more people are opening themselves to the truth.
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>>40329823
>and ext also defaults to fsck every 24 mounts too you know, whereas ntfs quietly defrags itself in the background
ext hardly ever defrags, you can go 5+ years and see no more than>>40329823
1% fragementation
fsck is done every ~20 mounts as a safety measure, if there is ever a problem, it would show up in the journal and will also be fscked on the next mount
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>>40329492
>What the hell is wrong with NTFS? I've never had an issue with it.
1. Uses first free with estimate rather than sparse write algorithm for writing file chunks leading to massive fragmentation.
2. Static location for the MFT backup, always starting at the middle of the initial partition size, meaning resizing partition can lead to MFT fragmentation as the disk fills up.
3. Storing of actual file content in the MFT entries if it fits in the free space of the MFT entry, this is bad design as it mixes metadata with data.
4. "Holes" in the MFT entries are not cleaned up correctly, leading to growth and fragmentation of the MFT.

Basically it all comes down to their decision to place performance over everything else. By selecting first free block they ensure that the data is always written to the track with the lowest access time.

They could of fixed this by just using a better balanced disk scan algorithm in the disk driver.
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>>40329766
not really, most large libs like cairo and glibc are shared and standard. it's when you start mixing into gnome and kde you stard getting into shit
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>>40329851
>windows fucked up one of of the "default libraries" folder
Windows did? What were you doing at that time, anon?
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>>40329658
I'm assuming you're not being stupid on purpose.

The difference between windows and linux is that linux maintains its dependencies better. Libraries and binaries are stored in a central location and versioned. Other programs can find the correct versions easily.

Windows just doesn't do this. If you want to install a dynamic library system-wide, you have to manually copy it to system32. There's no versioning - if some program wants to use a newer library, tough luck.

For this reason the standard practice with windows programs is to install every dependency (that isn't a driver) in the same folder as the program that needs it.

This means that even though you have a hundred programs all referencing the exact same msvcr110.dll, the DLL can be found in a hundred different places on your computer.

It makes patching these libraries next to impossible on windows. It's one of the reasons for Windows's poor security. Software patches can't be rolled quickly because every program needs to patch itself and all its dependencies.
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>>40329790
>I can't even give an example
cause you don't know what you're talking about. registry is only a concern fro programmers, not everyday use
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>>40329824

Every fucking program isn't in a fucking repo. Every fucking version isn't in a repo. Every version of your fucking desktop decorations might be in there but when people do real fucking work sometimes they need a specific version of a program that isn't in there. Sometimes they have to install software that will never be in a fucking package manager.

Eat a fucking dick. My whole point was neither Windows or Linux is hard. Anyone trying to pretend either one is hard should go shove a fucking dildo toy up their fucking ass right now.
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>>40329879
>random backlink in my reply
well okay then
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>>40329797
please, this is nothing.
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>>40329851
no it didn't
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ITT: A bunch of Linux wizards angry that their OS will never have majority desktop market share
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>>40329796
Just try to clean all the junk and rebuild the regsitry manually without reinstalling Windows.
If it's possible, it'd take you a long time.
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>>40329890

He was talking about his video games needing Visual C++. So I'm going to assume I was talking about the same fucking thing he was talking about. He was saying Linux doesn't have dependency issues. I am going to assume I was talking about dependencies in fucking Linux and Windows.

You want to talk about fundamental flaws in both Operating systems, go for it. Neither of them are perfect. I was replying to him. Next time you should assume I am replying to the comment I was replying to.
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>>40329969

They aren't Linux wizards. They are fucking desktop ricers. They spend more fucking time looking at their shiny GUI than they do trying to get shit done.
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>>40329969

You never know. Right now a lot of what's keeping windows on top is the gaming market, and the scientific/engineering/medical software market.

Medical and engineering software is rapidly transitioning to linux, if they don't have cross-platform versions out already (e.g. OSCAR or MATLAB)

As for gaming, well, some of us have hope that once publishers see SteamOS as viable and start releasing linux titles then there will be little incentive for gamers to buy windows.
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>>40329903
>real fucking work
Oh boy here comes the superiority complex.
Almost every single tool for sysadmins or development is in the package manager, unlike Windows where you need to get an SDK disc and an IDE from X website (or a VS disc), oh and if you don't want to deal with windows peculiarities prepare to work your ass to make mingw work.

You are not refering to superior "real work", you are refering to other types of work, for which the developers happen to not use repos. (IE Lightworks iirc)
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>>40329969
>>40329992
>these windows shills
have fun with your drive-by viruses, built-in backdoors and needing to mess around in registries and with untrusted third party software to do simple customization of your OS
:~)
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>>40330013
yeah, and the consumer market

and the Office market

and pretty much the market in general. Linux isn't built to become a replacement for windows, it's no where near as polished or easy to use, and it isn't even trying to be
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>>40329976
And why the fuck would you do that? There's no reason to touch registry, only if you actually want to fuck up your system and go complain o /g/ about that?

It wont's low your system and certainly won't take up any significant space.
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>>40329578
>CCNP
http://www.laccnp.org/
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>>40330014

I run Linux and BSD servers. Not Windows.

Some programs are specialized. I never claimed it's hard to fucking use. Guess fucking what? Windows isn't either. Unless you are a fucking retard.

Computers aren't fucking hard to use. Use whatever the hell you want. Don't get in to a fucking pissing contest over which is easier. Use what you fucking want.
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>>40330043
well of course Linux isn't trying to replace windows.

its trying to provide a POSIX complaint userland ABI.

that's much more useful and noble than being a blue (or purple) toys-r-us OS for retards
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>>40330068
Sounds reasonable for me.
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>>40330031

How many clocks do you have on your desktop faggot?
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>>40330080
awww, look at all those big fancy words you say

so cute :3
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>>40330101
>thinks common sysadmin jargon is fancy

you're either retarded or uneducated. which is it?
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>>40330096
one, on my taskbar
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>>40330101
Oh look, something went over his head and now he is resorting to name calling.

Must be terrible to be clinically retarded.
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Because microshit makes bullshit OSes and thinks that everyone is mentally retarded and computer illiterate.
Also because windows 8 is just a load of shit that is literately so fucking pointless. It makes even pac cry.
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>>40329835
Hint: if you could install all of them, you'd likely have some serious system issues.
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>>40329424
>/bin and /sbin
are you retarded? sbin is for superuser

>/media /mnt
well that depends on you how you use it (I use /mnt for internal hdd, /media with cdrom/usb/iso folders for removable storage) or you can just delete one of the folders

>nevermind all that shit with windows you didnt even mentioned
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>>40329992
>use a shell
>neckbeard skiddie
>use a desktop
>ricer faggot

Welcome to /g/. You can't win.
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>>40330121
it is if you don't use it right :P
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>>40330043

What consumer market? What office market? Those are all going to Apple. How many college students in liberal arts degrees do you see with macbooks? That's the consumer market.

How many businesses are still running XP because they don't want to pay 800 bucks for a new windows version on each of their 50 PCs? That's the office market.
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>>40330180
>know how to use computer
>winner

It's about the person, not about shell vs. desktop, you know?
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>>40330214
Yeah ! Windows upgrades aren't really cheap
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>>40330233
Since when was this a fucking competition.
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>>40329847
This, I hate this so fucking much
>1 hour left
>SHUTTING DOWN
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>>40330186
>Linux
a POSIX-compliant Monolithic kernel and driver infrastructure

>POSIX
a userland standard created in part by RMS

>userland
the name commonly given to software operating above ring1, i.e. everything above the kernel, drivers, and abstract filesystem

>compliance
the action or fact of complying with a wish or command.

>ABI
application binary interface, an access standard that closely mirrors an application programming interface (API) except in binary format. any library conforming to an ABI is drag-and-drop replaceable for any program that depends on that ABI

so once again, are you retarded or uneducated? i'm thinking its the former
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>>40330214
The consumer market that makes up 90% of computer users and, of course, MS Office which is where they make the real money. Linux port when lol
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>>40330249
Never, but somebody on /g/ thinks that using computer a certain way makes them automatically computer capable.
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>>40329043
We don't hate Windows. Only Windows 8/8.1/8.x.

/g/ loves 7 and XP.
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>>40330315
>we
>/g/ loves 7 and XP
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>>40330285
and of course none of that says anything in the post. Hint: Windows is better because it's a direct response to the weaknesses inherent in POSIX based Unix-like systems
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>>40330301

MS Office doesn't sell them windows copies. You can get MS Office on mac AFAIK.

Not to mention libreoffice does almost everything ms office does.

99% of office plebs just need basic spreadsheet and document writing functionality and don't need the fancy VBA macros or whatever.

Your argument is invalid, nice try tho
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>>40330315
nah, only faggots rag on windows 8. Retards hated it because muh start screen and then everybody else just jumped on the bandwagon
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>>40329043
because it's fucking garbage OP
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>>40329796
I've always found this argument funny.
Windows users are so used to the shit windows puts them through, that they consider anyone who won't learn how to deal with it computer illiterate. It's rather hilarious.
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>>40330333
>Windows is better because it's a direct response to the weaknesses inherent in POSIX based Unix-like systems
I laffed.
Specify a single way.
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>>40330346
>You can get MS Office on mac AFAIK.

nice try :)

>>40330346
>99% of office plebs just need basic spreadsheet and document writing functionality and don't need the fancy VBA macros or whatever.

cool, doesn't change the fact that options on Linux are substandard at best
>>
Linux will never become popular, people don't want to spend fuck hours learning a new OS
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>>40330333
err, buddy, the post was
>well of course Linux isn't trying to replace windows.
>its trying to provide a POSIX complaint userland ABI.

it was A) a subtle joke about linux being a kernel and B) nothing to do with one OS being better than another.

you really ARE retarded. there are special schools for your mental caliber. you should seek one out
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>>40329043
Because its the OS /g/ deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt it. Because it can take it. Because its not our hero. Its a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Windows OS.
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>>40330366
that's why NT was designed>>40330372
>>
Is there a way to get a pirated 8.1 working with updates for life? Daz said it's impossible to crack.
>>
>>40329125
Because it automates everything they're capable of doing making them obsolete and crushing their snob self-imposed sense of worth.
>>
>>40329492
this is the most basic example of "I never tried anything different so I have no oversight"

>What the hell is wrong with NTFS? I've never had an issue with it.
are you just fucking kidding me? Its just updated fat, its missing gazzilion features, it need manual defragmentation all the time and its performance drops once you fill >80% of ntfs space.
That shit is just fucking joke

>If you take a few minutes to configure it, Windows Update is fine.
What do you want to configure? Win update is fucking annoying. You have to wait when turning pc on/off, you have to restart after every fucking update and that there is the most annoying message box that doesnt let you wait more than 4 hours. You just dont have a clue how a proper update looks like.

>I don't see this as a problem. Windows doesn't have dependency hell like *nix so no elaborate systems to resolve dependencies needed to be developed.
that is because everything is compiled for statical linking with bunch of libraries sitting next to your .exe file.
Still the point of package manager isnt just resolving dependencies, but to get working sw easily on your computer.
How is searching for installer with your browser more comfortable than to type 'command name'? Also all the packages are tested specially for your release, almost always signed so you know you arent installing anything mallicious and you can uninstall anything easily without hunting for remaining files/folders that you need to delete.

>30 second fixes
>Yup
sure searching solution on internet and than searching where to put the magical line in registry is so much better than use wiki/man with which you actually understand what you are doing and next time wont need to research anything

Also there are other issues you didnt even mentioned (cpu/hdd scheluders, firewall, antivirus etc.)

The only thing windows is better at is having better support from 3rd parties with drivers
>>
>>40330388
Windows was created in response to Apples GUI, and was just added on top of DOS.

Its not a response to some "security flaw" in unix systems.
>>
>>40329340
>Are you retarded? If you can fix it that doesn't change the fact that its a poor design choice.
This just in, Linux/GNU is obsolete and nobody should ever use it again.
>>
>>40330412
typical freefag showing he knows nothing
>>
>>40330388
No, NT was designed to cover the weaknesses in 9x, and MS had OS/2 and POSIX compatibility in mind when designing it.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
>>
>>40330409
>but to get working sw easily on your computer.

well then it does a pretty poor job at that. Grabbing a contained file off the web is much more straight forward
>>
>>40330428
>no counter argument
>ad hominem
>>
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>>40329292
Because the "fixes" would be just converting it to Windows 7. Only, the to NOT make it a bastardized version of Windows 7 wouldn't take "30 seconds".

I'm sorry to the people that use Windows 8, but there's a reason no one is using it. And that's power users AND casual users.

It's failing and there are rumors that they are pushing Windows 9 for the next half of 2014 or 2015, I think...

They admitted they fucked up with their god damn preview. "It was made with touch screen in mind, and you can use the mouse + keyboard too if you want". They tried to innovate and they fucking failed. They took something simple/easy and instead of improving performance and adding features that bolster that, they tried to innovate for the sake of. They have no one, but themselves to blame.
>>
>>40330436
NT was released before 9x, idiot
>>
>>40329618

ReFS

How's it feel to get #rekt?
>>
>>40330315
actually, I as a GNU/Linux user, having used GNU/Linux as my only operating system for 6 years now, and having dirtied my hands with the filthy wangblowers computers of other users, have come to the conclusion that xp is a joke/barely usable, 7 is tolerable, still shit, and certainly not nearly as good as GNU/Linux, and 8 takes some noticeable steps in the right direction but still doesn't quite cut it. Basically every wangblowers release is dogshit that gets slightly better every with each new version but never keeps up with GNU/Linux because it's proprietary shitware that hates freedom. I'm fairly certain that the users of /g/ that actually belong here, that know the first thing about computers, that I don't want to fuck off to /v/, agree with me more than they do you, but it's not my place to make that claim nor is it yours to claim that /g/ in any way agrees with you or is one person.
>>
>>40330463
MS-DOS based then if you are dying to sperg over terms.
>>
>>40330503
Good luck getting that on your average desktop machine.
Also, ReFS is just a barely passable FS, still not incredible.
>>
>>40330503
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReFS
Yay, basic shit the rest of us have had for an eternity. Imma go to jelly school.
>>
>>40330515
what
>>
>>40330368

http://www.microsoft.com/MAC
>>
>>40330509
The freedom argument Stallman made way back when is pretty archaic today in an age where all drivers are written to support a single platform. I don't want the freedom to mess with drivers if it means It becomes my responsibility to do so
>>
>>40330509
What about vista???
>>
>>40330535
Which is, of course, never quite as good as the windows release.

That said, nobody is trying to discredit OSX here, it's pretty good for what it is
>>
>>40330554
In my experience, linux has better drivers, but windows has more of them.
This is especially true for business hardware.

With a couple of exceptions like GPUs.
>>
>>40330556
I fortunately have never been subjected to it to the same extent that I have the others but just the fact that you can super key, type the name of a program, and hit enter makes it miles ahead of xp
>>
>>40330526
Windows 1.0 to ME go on that category as they have MS-DOS underneath as a bootloader.
>>
>>40330509
Shit posting
>>
>>40330554
>The freedom argument Stallman made way back when is pretty archaic today in an age where all drivers are written to support a single platform
what?
What does POSIX have to do with drivers? moreover, back then, drivers and hardware used to be a mess, what we have today is much better
>>
>>40330554

The freedom to mess with drivers doesn't make it your responsibility. Someone with the time and inclination will make it theirs, but we all still need the freedom to do it.

Closed-source drivers are a bad idea
>>
>>40330589
aww, did I upset the /v/tard wangblowers defender?
>>
Today I had to setup Windows 8 to a prebuilt computer. Although it had Windows
preinstalled it was a major frustration to get all programs and updates
installed as I'm a Linux user but the only one of the family who actually knows
how to use Windows. I created user account with Windows account and was
expecting to be prompted for preferred username and password but instead Windows
8's default behaviour is to use your email account credentials as username and
password. Pretty odd default behaviour I must say...

Then I had to run Windows updates (almost 1 gig) all of which refused to
download at first try. After that I fetched from the internet with a browser (I
thought we were living 2014, but I couldn't find a decent package manager
preinstalled) an update for the graphics driver. After those two updates were
installed I rebooted only to be greeted with disgusting blurry fonts due to
either one of the updates. I found that there's possibly a fix for this in
Windows 8.1 but I'm running 8 and don't have time for such upgrade. After that I
proceeded to install all various programs because Windows packs such bad default
programs with install (internet explorer, windows media player and such). I had
to download all of them individually with a browser and then install all of them
separately (you know the drill, click next-next-next about a million times and
try to avoid any toolbars).
>>
>>40330612
Actually some programs I had to install felt pretty useless. For example I had
to rip an dvd to an iso. In linux I could have used the ol' dd command but in
Windows I had to install a GUI program even for that kind of basic task and then
figure how to navigate that shitty UI. After the day, I checked the size of my
Windows folder and it was as large as 30 gigs. My previous linux installation (a
bloated mint 15 cinnamon) was on a partition of that size and it lasted for over
a half a year without filling up (both root and home included in the same
partition) until I decided to upgrade to a newer distro.

During the day I didn't notice any benefits from running Windows except gaming
performance. Winfags keep consistently telling how Linux is such unfriendly OS
but let's take a brief example from Windows 8. I didn't find any show desktop
button on the taskbar and because I knew the people who would use the computer
are so tech illiterate (probably due to all those wasted years of Windows usage)
that they wouldn't remember win+D keyboard shortcut I decided to make an icon
for that basic task for which there is a dedicated icon in every linux desktop
environment. To create this icon I had to create a new desktop shortcut to the
desktop and set this intuitive and simple string to its destination:
%windir%\explorer.exe shell:::{3080F90D-D7AD-11D9-BD98-0000947B0257
>>
>Windows has small amount of minor flaws that can be quickly fixed.
>OMG THAT DOESN"T EXCUSE IT
>Most Linux distros don't even work out of the box they have to be modded
>HURR ITS THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE AS IN FREEDOM OBEY THE RULES FOLLOW THE SETUPS USE LINUX AND ONLY LINUX THERE ARE NO OTHER CHOICES GABEN IS GON RUN ONLY LINUX SET IT UP THE WAY ITS SUPPOSED TO BE DO NOT CHOOSE WINDOWS REPEAT AFTER ME I AM FREE
>>
>>40330509
>8 takes some noticeable steps in the right direction
Yes because removing shadow copies was a great idea.
At least I can agree XP was terrible.
>>
>>40330632
And in addition to all this I had to think about virus protection and how to get
legit MS Office and such nonsense I haven't had to deal in a while because I
haven't had to use Windows on a personal computer for over a year.

In linux, all this would have been as simple as typing a few sudo apt-gets to
batch install all needed programs and to update the system, and to copy a few
config files from dropbox for my preferred window manager and vim. Chrome and
Spotify are the only programs for which I would have needed browser to fetch the
packages and their installation is dead simple (no clicking next, no ask
toolbars). And all this could be distilled into one script but I haven't enough
lazy to do that just yet. And usually linux distros come with such good default
programs such as firefox, vlc and gedit so there's no need to replace all the
default programs as is the case in Windows. All of this said, I think Windows is
the toy os of this era and linux is for those who want to learn how to
accomplish tasks most efficiently without the need to adjust their workflow to
the one designed by bunch of idiot microsoft engineers
>>
>>40330636
>>Windows has small amount of minor flaws that can be quickly fixed.
So you bought a prebuilt then, because I think most are familiar with driver hell.
>>
>>40330605
>>40330612

also shitposting
>>
>>40329903
most well know linux distros have >10 000 packages, what exactly are you missing?
Also you can always install from source if you found something you need and isnt in repo, that is why /usr/local is there
still easy to install (./configure make make install) easy to uninstall (delete from /usr/local)

You are just making things up, have you ever used any linux/*bsd for more than few hours?
(no I know you didnt, I dont know why people always forget that linux users came from windows, they used both, while windows users know only windows. You shouldnt even comment in thread like this, you are just probably repeating things you saw in other threads. Installing 20 dependencies inst hell or issue, when it somehow fails than it is issue, I never had any dependency issue over my 5y linux usage, except for few aur packages when I was using arch)
>>
enjoy you're botnet
>>
>>40330636
>dumb kid posts nonsensical hyperbolic statement
>life goes on
>>
>>40330588
dude, how can it be designed to cover weaknesses in a system that hadn't even been released yet? Unix was disliked on the NT team and it was built around that
>>
>>40330650
>driver hell

that's cute, you're actually implying that driver-wise windows is more problematic than linux

you're either a master baiter or a complete retard, so 9.5/10 congratulations
>>
>>40329969
>ITT op ask why people hate windows
>people reply
>hur dur people are just mad that nobody shares their preference
are you just playing retarded?
>>
>>40329740

it just looks fine between Vista and 8
>>
>>40330582
yeah, this is true.
>>
>>40330693
linux drivers may be shit because the OEMs are lazy but they're usually easier to deploy and update on Linux
>>
>>40329578
>CCNP

I keep hearing people saying this proudly. How difficult is it to pass?
>>
>>40330599
What does POSIX have to do with freedom?

>>40330602
>Someone with the time and inclination will make it theirs

Same can be said for a propriety product too
>>
>>40330581

I know it's not as good but the other guy was right:

99% of office plebs don't need the "pro features" they just need basic spreadsheets and word processing.

macoffice does that just fine, so does libreoffice.
>>
>>40329043
Because I've never thought it was well designed or executed. Even before I knew what Linux was - before Linux existed, even - I thought Windows was shit. I only ever used it because I thought I had no alternative.
>>
>>40330602
>Closed-source drivers are a bad idea

not really given Windows is built to be compatible for all of them
>>
>>40330636
>implying the issues with windows are small
>>
>>40330686
See, you just confirmed you have no clue what you are talking about.
9x is just a continuation of Windows 3.x, the difference being a revamped shell, and the replacement of progman for explorer. Oh and MS-DOS used as a bootloader for the graphical shell instead of having to type win in dos.

NT was designed for workstations, and so it had to had many things DOS based windows lacked like multiprocessing. If anything OS/2 and POSIX compatibility were well kept in mind during the design of NT, in fact Windows had a UNIX-like subsystem until recently.
>>
>>40330739
nope

libreoffice is no better than a stopgap
>>
Protip; nobody here needs linux, they just use it because they have to be on the losing side of an argument to feel an air of importance. Often citing freedom while doing nothing that they're not able to do on windows, "Free as in freedom" they apparently abhor proprietarity, but conveniently ignoring the fact they live in a proprietary society, follow proprietary standards, obey proprietary laws, gain proprietary knowledge, build proprietary lives, and die proprietary.

The linux is not free, its proprietary from your side, therefor linux users are hypocrites as they do not oppose proprietary standards, just standards that they are not included into. Vanity, my friends, that is all you are.
>>
>>40329247
Slow as fuck
>>
>>40330746
>vendor drops support for hardware
>new version of windows comes out
>you're SOTL
>>
>>40330693
Installed Linux and everything but the AMD drivers worked out of the box, and even then I got full resolution; Installed Windows and I had to go through discs of drivers to get it working.
>>
>Windows doesn't have dependency hell like *nix
OH MY FUCKING SIDES
This is what winfags actually believe
Or you just didn't use windows in the 90s and are underage
All Microsoft did was bury their DLL hell like a dog buries shit. They fester and rot on your hard drive with thousands of different versions of DLLs.

come back when you has decent package management, until then the debate is over.

>>40330719
it's not at all, it's community college tier just like every other cert
>>
>>40330770
>compatibility

so what?
>>
>>40330760
If you know how to fix them, which you would if you didn't waste your life on trying to install gentoo.

>>40330667
>dumb kid posts nonsensical hyperbolic statement
>life goes on
>>40330693
>Windows
>Driver hell
I think you meant to say linux.
>>
>>40330797
>it's not at all, it's community college tier just like every other cert

How long did it took to study for it?
>>
>>40330786
>>vendor drops support for hardware
because it's old as fuck and they can't make any money off of it because nobody uses it
>>
>>40330797
>They fester and rot on your hard drive with thousands of different versions of DLLs.

storage is cheap you fucking jew
>>
>>40330693

I remember having to download drivers to make the ethernet working on Windows, very annoying task when you forget to download it before.

Never happened to me on any Linux distro, it just worked out of the box
>>
>>40330821
that doesn't stop linux from supporting it

not everyone buys shit every 2 years with their mom's credit card

>>40330832
>we have resources! let's waste them!
>>
>>40330777

so you're saying it doesn't provide basic spreadsheets and word processing?

troll detected
>>
>>40330811
>If you know how to fix them, which you would if you didn't waste your life on trying to install gentoo.
Or I could just install a linux distribution of my choice and install a few drivers.

Done.

>implying there is such a thing as fixing windows
>>
>>40330840
>>we have resources! let's waste them!
A single thread in a tapestry
Though its color brightly shine
Can never see its purpose
In the pattern of the grand design
>>
shitty shell
nonfree
nonsensical trees of context menus to find useful options
no security
vendor lock-in
anticompetitive monopolistic practices
>>
>>40330801
So explain how Windows NT is a response to weaknesses in POSIX and how win32 is the POSIX killer given windows had an API just for it on early NT.

Where is your argument?
>>
>>40330842
Im saying it does it *poorly*
>>
>>40330816
6 months for both CCNA and then CCNP, roughly
>>40330832
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
You probably thought windows didn't have dependency hell
Get the fuck out, underage, and respect the hell that your developers have to go through in respect to DLLs. I know, because I've actually developed windows software. And it is hell.
>>
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>>40330782
>>
>>40329043
>everything is a big monolithic block
>GUIs all over the fucking place in places where they offer nothing over CLI
>tons of bullshit nobody uses so they have something to teach MCSE monkeys
>shitty as fuck APIs, most nonsensical and bloated syntax I've ever seen
>inflexible and closed down
>200$ patches every 4 years
>huge ass installation media
>crap filesystem support
>motherfucking REGISTRY
>basically a petri dish for malware
>>
>>40330832
Confirmed for underage asking daddy for hard drives.
Storage is not meant to be wasted in thousands of copies of the same system file, that's just bloat.
>>
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>>40330888
It doesn't
>>
>>40330853
>Or I could just install a linux distribution of my choice and install a few drivers.
>Done.
HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA You, You actually believe that, Kid, go home.
>>
>>40330888
>>40330816
sorry, 6 months for CCNA and 6 months for CCNP a piece
>>
I use linux but I do not hate windows. I like 7. Not a bsod fan and also not a fan of being forced to do everything and not having muh freeeedom!!
>>
>>40330905
10 gb's worth the stability and compatibility
>>
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>>40330101
you're stupid. how does it feel to be stupid?
>>
>>40330920
>more ad hominems
Bitch please, I still have no issues
>>
>>40330920
>l-look at him g-guys... h-he's so wrong right... haha...
>>
>>40330939
Compatibility with what, muh games muh BUSINESS (disregarding the fact BUSINESS apps are in multiplatform Java)?
>>
>>40330746
topkek of all keks
>not really given Windows is built to be compatible for all of them
windows want built to be compatible with any drivers. The drivers were built to be compatible with windows
>>
>>40330920
Nice argumentation.
Nice assumption.
>>
>>40330960
Magi a shit
>>
>>40330782
wow that is so stupid that is became beautifull
10/10

>nobody need os A that just werks, doesnt cost anything, has better security model, almost no viruses and comes with repositories of many thousands sw also without any cost
>but everybody needs os B that does the same, have less features and costs shit ton of money, with official software that isnt even part of the installed os, that costs another shit ton of money and in the end you dont even own the os you are using (you have to buy another licence if you want to have more than 5 user accounts on your own pc, etc)
>>
>>40331055
what the fuck is magi? if it has to do with my picture, then idk, I just like the picture.
>>
I now like Windows. As of version 7 and higher.

Yours sincerely,
Former Macfag
>>
>>40330910
since you were clever enough to take this picture (implying google didnt helped) you would know you just install khelpcenter first, than continue with the rest of installation
>>
>>40331055
But muh engineering.
>>
>>40331136
And then there was that time I forgot to run
ph-clean which threw my java config and prevented me from updating firefox
>>
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>>40330920
This is what it looks like when a retard gets blown the fuck out in an argument they shouldn't have been in to begin with.

Look, point, laugh, and then cringe. Not necessarily in that order.
>>
>>40331189
>I am stupid
okay
>>
>>40331209
you obviously don't actually use Linux.

It's okay, Gentoo is hard!
>>
>>40331258
So, you never used an stable distro.
Ok.
Least we know you can read the Gentoo handbook.
>>
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>>40331258
God damn it's sad and embarrassing to read the last desperate ramblings of the defeated and butthurt.

Fun fact: I'm posting this from an official, Certified Stallman Genuineā„¢ copy of GNU/Linux.
>>
>>40331303
My Gentoo distro is pretty stable though

unlike my DWA130 drivers which are seemingly nonexistent
>>
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>no decent package manager on Windows
>>
>>40331409
>www.firefox.com
>download now
>click firefox.msi
>done

wow much hard
>>
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>>40331409
>dwm
>>
>>40331409
To be fair, is clicking a link to download something and then double-clicking on it any harder?
>>
>>40331452
>arch
>not a ricer
>>
>>40331472
wat?
>>
>>40331466
no
>>
>>40330214
>How many college students in liberal arts degrees do you see with macbooks?

>be in lib arts class of any sort
>i'm the only one without a macbook

>be in compsci/eng classes of any sort
>90% of laptops are thinkpads, latitudes or the like
>>
>>40331466
but what about updates? and making sure everything installs in a sensible location, without jizzing shite all round, and removing things properly?
>>
>>40331258
>gentoo
>not stable
are you sure you arent mistaking it for arch? Because gentoo is pretty stable.
>>
>>40331466
>open browser
>search sw
>search download link
>let the antivir scan the downloaded .exe
>run and click next next next while avoiding toolbars
>having said sw running all the time in background checking for updates/or having to do the whole procces again when you want to update
>not even talking about uninstall

instead of

>package-manager package-name
>[enter]

yeah I am pretty sure it is much easier
>>
>>40331466
Everything has an updater service running at startup and cluttering up the system, you must make sure you are at a trusted site, oh and you have to dodge toolbars and fake download buttons too.

Now think of this as a technically inept person who can't understand anything here.
>>
>>40331636
You mean
>save file
>double click

looniggers make me laugh, downloading toolbars and viruses over the most meager tasks
>>
>>40331472
>implying I rice
dwm is just efficient to use.
>>
>>40331636
>control panel
>uninstall a program
>uninstall it
Stop being stupid
>>
>>40331705
Oh so you are of the sort that enjoys complicating daily tasks.
Go on and download your shady .exes.
>>
>>40329396
>transperent
>>
>>40331748
oh, is this 1995?
>>
>>40331875
to a macfag it is
>>
>>40331705
>toolbars and viruses
>linux
>>
>>40329125
>why do the smarter people hate windows?
>>
>>40329043
>Why does /g/ hate monopolistic operating systems.
ftfy

With over 80% of the market, it's hard to argue they aren't. I'll love Microsoft the day they split the OS division from the business software division.
>>
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>>40332049
The day they release DirectX blobs for linux
>>
I mean, personally I don't hate it. It's just that besides specialty software it's worse than it's competitors.
>>
>>40331705
did you actually fell on head when little?

you dont just click in the middle of desktop and press save file, you still have to open browser, search the needed sw, search the download link on found page, click through installation and all the other things I already said.

instead of typing two words and pressing enter.

I just dont understand how much stupid you have to be to still thing windows way of installing anything is the most efficient/elegant/simple/quick

And there is often ton of things left after uninstalling anything, you still have to hunt them down and delete them manualy.

I am just done with winfags for today, you are so stupid that it rustled my jimmies 7/10 (only 7 because it isnt that hard to rustle my jimmies)
>>
I don't hate it, I just prefer Linux over it.

Goddamn, why does everyone on /g/ have to be so religious over their OS?
>>
>>40332702
Autism and/or nothing better to do.
>>
>>40332702
common man we talked about this, you cant be reasonable on 4chan
>>
>>40332702
>why does everyone on /g/ have to be so religious over their OS?

/v/ is leaking over
>>
I dont hate windows.

I just use the right tool for the job.

Windows = Gaming
Linux = Servers
OSX = Working on mah servers

All are good, all have something to offer and beyond that who really cares.
>>
>>40329396
>insecure
>>
>>40329043
it changes every few years
it's buggy, bloated - the tools are crap
it costs money
it's susceptible to viruses / adware
its boring
>>
>>40330899
>>tons of bullshit nobody uses so they have something to teach MCSE monkeys

you've got that right -- what a waste of time
>>
>>40330899
this is the top answer
>>
>>40330013
does windows run the games?

no.
>>
>>40329043
Windows is bad, but I don't hate it. It does the job. Does some things right, for example, backwards compatibility. Though it could easily be much better if MS pulled their heads out of their asses.
Desktop linux is a horrible fucking mess.
OS X seems to be the only major desktop OS made with actual users in mind.
>>
>>40333397
>common man
Learn your english there, friend!
>>
>>40333397
common man sounds like a really shitty superhero
>>
I don't hate windows I have it on a partition that I only use to play VNs. It's just linux suits my needs better.
>>
>>40335488
Hah. You reminded me of this.
>>
>>40330359
You mean just like Linux users?

Linux isn't some flawless OS devoid of issues. It doesn't "just werk" for everybody, and more often than not takes a bit of configuration that a new user will have trouble with. Yet experienced Linux users act just like Windows users do about system maintenance.
>>
when linux just werks and has gaims ill switch

last time i tried using loonix i couldnt even work out how to play an mp3 file. spend hours looking through obscure forums looking for a way to get mp3's to work and installed a bunch of codecs and what not and still couldn't work it out.
>>
>>40335772
when was this, 1992?
>>
>>40335810
2011/2012 i think
Thread replies: 273
Thread images: 21
Thread DB ID: 165



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