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Engineering vs Computer Science
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Sup, /biz/. Currently an engineering student. Thinking about switching majors to computer science. Especially since the salary is higher, the courses are easier, and the better working conditions.
Not to mention they tend not to be located some backwater flyover town.
What are your anons' opinions?
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>>1072612
>Engineering
Well what sort of engineering are you doin?
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>>1072612

Get into electrical engineering and do both.
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>>1072638
>>1071112
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>>1072612
The salary for computer science majors are not higher than computer engineers. The very fact that computer science is easier should be an indication about where the job market is headed. Computer Science is becoming the business major of STEM.

Truthfully you don't even need a computer science degree to get a really good job in the field, just ask /g/. I'm currently in Computer Engineering, so I'm biased, but CPE combines programming and electrical, and expands your job prospects. Also, in my experience, CPE has been the easiest out of any engineering field. I have friends in ME, EE, CE, IE, BioE, and ChemE and they all have to take way more classes than I do. Most of them are just scared of programming.
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>>1072616
Currently in mechanical engineering

>>1072664
Should I switch to computer engineering then, sempai?
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>>1072674
are you stupid or something?

DONT change from mechanical engineering to some shit a chink or an indian can do from bangladesh via remote-desktop.

Ever seen something usefull mechanical engineered by chinks or indians? No? - because ther is none. mech eng. is white man's business.

comp sciene is easier for a cause: it's shit with no future.
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>>1072806
a lot of organizations can't outsource their computer work to china or indian for reason relating to platform stability, security, industrial espionage, etc. it's still pretty useful if you're good.

americans are losing big companies like caterpillar and boeing because despite what you think, chinese are actually pretty good engineers and the main costs of doing business in america is red tape, not wages.

american industry is just fashion. fashion cars, fashion tech, movies and soda pop. cutting edge medical has mostly been removed from public trading because of stupid requirements regarding funding, the AMA, etc.
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>>1072806
kek buttmad ME detected.
Indians and Chinamen don't do ME because it's a dying overstated field. It's always been at least half full of women, and any field that can be done by a woman is easy and will soon be rendered obsolete by machine learning AI.
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>>1072806
computer engineering is mostly hardware oriented. There are only a couple of programming courses in the entire four year flowchart
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>>1072806
CompE is much more hardware oriented than SoftE or CS and thus CompE's can work in fields outside of software development
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>>1072880
>american industry
>cars
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>>1072664
Senior year computer engineer here. OP listen to him I agree with everything he says.
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>>1073382
Is it worth the switch from Mech Eng to Computer Eng then? This is as a second year speaking.
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>>1075037
This is
>>1072664
And it really depends on what you want to do. Are you genuinely interested in CPE jobs? Most of them require EE and Programming. MechE however is a totally different field. MechE jobs are designing cars and machines, and even plastics.

When it really comes down to it, what would you rather be working on: Computers or Machines?

Both fields are pretty lucrative, I know people who work in both fields who are rich as hell, so do what you want to do.
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>>1075055
I kinda like doing both m8, so I'm letting money decide for me.
I hear that mech eng hits a ceiling on salaries while comp eng is exploding like crazy.
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>>1072612
The internet and app industry is in a MASSIVE bubble that's imminently about to pop. You would be completely retarded to switch and join the hoardes of CS students that are about to get pwned.
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>>1075149
Show the graduations too anon.
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>>1075149
That graph is showing two majors in one line, of course it's higher than the other niche engineering courses.

The internet is not about to 'pop', it's an integrated part of our lives now, that's like saying toilets are about to 'pop'.
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>>1075482
Have toilets ever evolved in technology since it was invented?
Not including japan of course.
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Computer Science is the coolest STEM major. While engineers are busting their ass working on bridges and cars (sadly us computer science guys will eventually make programs that replace most engineers) we're creating the future.
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>>1075534
We're not arguing that CS isn't cool, we're arguing that a CS degree is useless because the market is already flooded with CS degrees, and you can get a job in CS without getting a degree. If you have all your certifications, you can get a pretty cushy IT job just about anywhere, even without a formal education.

If you don't have an engineering degree, good luck getting a job in the field.

>>1075515
Toilets have evolved from buckets, to outhouses, to indoor plumbing. The internet has evolved quicker, but I can't think of an instance (disregarding WWIII) where the internet, or a derivative of it, would suddenly cease to exist.
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>>1072880
yes iam a ME, in europe. working for a big car manufacturer. excuse my english.

dont know details about NA industry, but here in europe my company resources the shittiest parts of a car (some simple alu-die-cast-housings) from companies in france, italy, UK.
- despite you could expect those stuff to be made cheap in china because there no science or new technology involved. its the same tech like in the 70s. But we dont buy there/ or india or bangladesh b/c the cant quality and quantity of ME. TecSa (cleaninnes of the parts - espescially engine parts, timing of shipping, no blur, dont get fucked over with cheaper alloys.)

AND: As a ME with skills in tools like Catia or Pro/E you could simply switch so civil engineering as a CAD-monkey to make quick bucks as an contractor.

Software and IT shit will earlier or later be outsourced to asian countries because decisionmakers (shitty MBAs) think of IT as "bodyless" which can be transfered to any cheap place on the globe. Setting up an IBM Hub in a slum is easy but nobody would setup a diecast factory in an unstable country with shitty infrastructure.

happy to hear comments.
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>>1076063
i like to add a subjective obervation:
all our IT and software departments have at least 20% woman and 25% indian, africans and other inferiors. while the complete building my department is located (300 pppl doing combustion engine development) has a female population of precisley 0% and like 2% foreigners (UK, spain). white man's business tho
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>>1075515
This got me thinking.

Wouldn't the toilet industry be the ideal industry to work in? There is no chance of these jobs ever being outsourced to India.
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>>1075471
>Google P/E ratio: 34
>Facebook P/E ratio: 77
>Amazon P/E ratio: 460
>not about to pop
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>>1075534
Except that's bullshit. Code generation is much easier to automate than the massive breadth of expertise and creativity required to be an engineer.

My mechanical engineering degree actually teaches me useful knowledge about how the physical works. While you're busy dedicating your life to making pretty websites, I'm bending the fundamental laws of nature to my will. It's an extremely empowering feeling, as though there's a god inside of me.
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>>1076063
You're 100% right.
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>>1076139

Everything will eventually be automated, there's no need to be upset.
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>>1076156
You're missing the point. Programming is going to be automated long before something as cognitively diverse as mechanical engineering. Automation of an engineer's job would require nothing less than a fully sentient AI in a robot body. Meanwhile people are already starting to use genetic algorithms to generate code.
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>>1076139
that is something one would say if he has a skill that he cannot fully comprehend himself. you can't bend physical laws, but you can bend code. as in math > physics

here >>1076165 you even prove yourself wrong. you will still need computer people to maintain robots, but you will rarely need an engineer to repair a robot, because thats a repetitve task.
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>>1077324
but engineerings design the robots m8
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>>1077329
in the beginning, yes. but when we reach the fully automated phase, the machines know the blueprints of the robots and can build new ones anytime they want.
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>>1077324
>taking the metaphor literally
So what's it like having autism?

Engineers have to have a much more diverse skillset than programmers, and as such it's going to be much, much more difficult to automate.
-you have to be able to collaborate with suppliers, fellow engineers, and customers
-you have to have abstract reasoning and the ability to conceptualize new solutions to extremely complex problems
-you have to have a good understanding of fluid mechanics, electromagnetism, heat transfer, materials science, manufacturing techniques, etc.
-you have to be able to manufacture prototypes and and test them in the physical world
-you need to be able to mentally model how systems will behave
-you need to be able to comprehend existing systems that have already been engineered and be able to safely expand upon them
-etc.

The funny part about you CS major is how full of yourselves you are. For all this talk about
>hurr durr I'm going to automate stuff
there's a 99% chance that plebs like you will end up doing something directly related to making websites for the internet with bloatedframework.js. And then you job will be outsourced to Prajeet in India. And then it will be automated.

Meanwhile I'll be laughing from my comfy mechanical engineering job because it would literally take a strong AI to replace me.
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>>1077373
>The funny part about you CS major is how full of yourselves you are.
the same applies to you. just look at your post.
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>>1077435
>y-you too
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>>1077440
and that is your back-argument? i should be using that gif.
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>>1077478
>I don't understand what greentext is
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>>1077330
your argument is invalid. Massproduction of stuff has nothing to do with engineering.
Guess what: a production line can produce cars without humans.

automatic coding: make code and test it. it fails? modifiy and test again.

the good thing about ME is: o/c you could develope automatic ME-AIs. But in the end it would probabbly to expensive that its cheaper to simply hire some dude. Dont see that in the IT.
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>>1077478
Welcome, new friend
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>>1072664
We're on the verge of big shit in AI and machine learning, but nah let's do some soldering instead.
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>>1077594
I'm not arguing that CS doesn't do anything, I'm arguing that getting a college degree in CS is useless, because as long as you have certifications, you can get a job in the field.

That's why CS is a more crowded field, any Indian or Chinese person can get the certs and work for quarters. You just can't do that in the Engineering field.
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>>1076165
People are using genetic algorithms to design mechanical shit, too. Turns out classical mechanics is easy to implement computationally. I know a few PhDs in mech eng whose work is basically coding a computer to model mechanical systems.

btw, who do you think will make the programs that make the code?

Also, CS is about computer architecture as well. We still have true parallel computing to come yet, not to mention quantum computing.
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>>1077605
This. Thank you for putting it into the right words.
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>>1076104
>knows nothing about the designated toilet revolution that is about to pop in India
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>>1077605
using matlab to equate a kinematic problem is like compiling. not coding.
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>>1077651
>matlab

I said PhDs, not first years.
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>>1077786
> PhDs in what?
you did not gave much hints what they arre doing.
care to relaborate?
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>>1077803
Fucked if I know, but the big boys now use Python with C numerical routines. Matlab is one gigantic proprietry cock in the ass of mankind.
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>>1077805

I work with research mathematicians; Matlab is used in maybe 90% of their work.
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>>1077808
well maybe they are not very good at their jobs - ever think about that you big noob noob?
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>>1077820

If you know the discipline, you will know of where I work. We regularly top world rankings.
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>>1077833
well maybe the people doing the rankings are not very good at their jobs - ever think about that you big noob noob?
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>>1077835

>retreats to solipsism
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>>1077863
bitch i aint impressed - ever think about that you big noob noob?
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>>1077808
They sound like total cucks. I hope Mathsworks bought them dinner first.
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>>1077886
>>1077894

>this is what undergrads think
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>>1077899
no im shitposting at work right now pussy
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>>1077899
>>1077900
oops - i mean big noob noob
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>>1077900

>undergrads can't have jobs; this is another genius argument of mine
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Opinions on PhD in applied physics?

PhD in regular/theoretical physics seems kinda silly to me from a business perspective, as in how the hell can you make money off spending 20+ years tracking an exoplanet or something, but to get a PhD in applied physics and actually become an expert on some emerging technology (Battery tech, nuclear fusion, photovoltaics, semiconductors, nanotechnology etc. etc.) seems like it could potentially be amazing from both an entrepreneurial- and investor standpoint (as in you could innovate on some technology and start a company around that, or have the technical knowledge to spot high-value startups still under the radar).

Also I don't see it getting outsourced anytime soon; an applied physicist's job (as far as I've understood it at least) is literally to invent and/or innovate new technology.

Thoughts?
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>>1077908
just stop noob noob your embarrassing yourself
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>>1077909
PhDs are not to make money.

Unless you have a genuine love of the topic you study, you'll regret wasting your time.
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>>1077909
Education costs a lot. You need to have true passion for the topic and be self-driven as well.
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>>1076139
Everything MechE's do can be abstracted, solved and automated. You are not a god for simply knowing a some physics and calculus.
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>>1077972
>simply knowing a some physics and calculus
Lol...

It's amusing to watch retarded CS majors talk about things they don't comprehend. The moment I lose my job as an engineer because of automation is the moment we have mass produced strong AI's that are superior to the average human at being a human.
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>>1072664
thinking about going IE next semester when i have to declare, is it really a meme? why do they call it imaginary?
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>>1078244
It's like half mechanical engineering, half business. If you're going to a reputable school, by all means please go for it since it would put you in a good position to become part of upper management wherever you work.
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>>1078295
oh right on im alright with that.
and thats sort of what I had imagined just wanted to here from someone who wasnt in the field/major bc they all seemed to say "its the best i love my career" but didnt give specifics
thanks anon
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>>1077939
>>1077943

Well I really, really do, and I would've chose applied physics anyways no doubt, but earning good money would certainly be a bonus. Thanks for your replies.
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>>1077909
from a european perspective (germany, university tution is basically free, thanks socialismn), i can report that a PhD almost never gives you the additonal income needed to legitimize the additional effort to get the degree.

i strongly suggerst finishing with a Master degree and then start right on the next best job in you field. then move on to the next position after 2 years. After 5 years you are a) on a highter paylevel as a PdH graduate + had a 5y headstart on networking with suppliers, customers, managment etc.

i can see any glas cellings in my company for which i would need a PhD to pass. i have higher ups which made a halfass BsC from a homeschooling university/ parallel to the job.
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>>1077972
please elaborate how would you automate a solution for this ME problem:

> wild marketing department appears
> it wants a new hinge for a car door
> can only pay %$1
> car is almost finished so your package-situation is already in design freeze which leads to almost no physical space for your part
> must not corrode in every possible and impossible country on earth (plot twist: must not use toxic materials)
> must comply with recycling regulations: must be disassembled to get the metal sorted out.
> assembly line need parts in 12 weeks
> only suitable supplier says he need atleast 15 weeks for machine setup and demands %$2 > %$1 money.
> Logistics departmant calls in and tell you that the hinge will be to heavy for the worker and ask you to make it lighter and without sharpe edges
>project management calls and tells you that the start of production will be 2 weeks earlier.

the only IT, CS related field i truely have respect for are the weirdos who do DME/DEE.
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>>1072612
It's all a meme bro. You don't even need a degree to get a job at one of the top tech companies anymore. It's code monkey central now and showing signs of a bubble.
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