Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1365

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なるべく諦めない！
なせば大抵なんとかなる！

Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs

When I was leaving Yemen to come to America, things were tough. My dad had just been laid off, and it was a challenge. When I lived in Yemen, I thought America was a perfect place. Everything was bigger and better. I dreamed big. The American dream, you know? You have to work hard for your dream to come true.

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YOU CAN LEARN JAPANESE. THERE IS NO "CAN'T".

Report and hide flamebait. Report and hide responses to flamebait. Report and hide yourself.

>>135797434
master race reporting in

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>>135797450
Just shut up and come play in the tub.

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Posted in the previous thread but, yeah.

Anyone starting out and having trouble with katakana, here's a fun exercise. Find a japanese release of an album by a band you like (rutracker is full of them) and try reading the scans. What's great about this is if you get stuck on a certain Kanji, instead of looking it up, you can continue reading, recall the name of a certain song or word you know is supposed to be there, and then associate the sound with the symbol. Plus why wouldn't you want the Japanese releases? They always have a cool extra track or two.

>>135797731
>if you get stuck on a certain Kanji
katakana*

>>135797731
>>135797768
why would people have problems with katakana? they are everywhere

>>135797768

One day you'll write that post correctly anon, I have faith in you.

>>135798045
I'm sorry I only give myself like 5 hours of slep a day, my sleep clock is completely messed up.

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>>135797488
How do I know you're not flamebait yourself?

>>135798094
That's a cute anime. Can I save her?

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This is the best I've ever done in Anki in my entire life.
>>135797731
I see a couple SNES and PC98 games in pure Katakana, I plan on playing one just to train one of these days.
>>135798034
A lot of katakana like ヌ literally never fucking show up anyway, that combined with the fact that high densities of katakana is relatively uncommon in Japanese text, someone who's otherwise good at reading could easily struggle to fluidly read katakana strings. that said, not sure how much that one image would help in comparison to a whole RPG.

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>>135797731
>having trouble with katakana

>>135798155
What's a good SNES RPG purely in katakana one could emulate?

>>135798130
I wish you could, anon. I wish you could. ;_;

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Please don't be mean.
What should I do after learning kana? Or, what did you do?

>>135798244
I didn't mean it like that, anon. I'm sorry.

>>135798331
I read muramasa.

>>135798331
start with kanji, however you feel comfortable, try out several methods
start reading manga with furigana for now, dragonball is relatively easy and long
start watching drama or anime without subs looking up words by phonetics to train your ears

>>135798210
The only one I actually remember is Phantasy Star and I think that's genesis, my mistake.
Here's an example of a PC game with all katakana, should be obvious by what I meant of good readers struggling: https://vndb.org/v18190

>>135798402
Genesis is fine too. I grew up on that console anyway.

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Why is RTK/Kanjidamage bad?

>>135798504
Teaches liberal (gay) values.

>>135798396
Thank you!

>>135798504
It's not, it's just not an ideal method for everyone so it's a meme to shit on it.

Now Wanikani, that is actually bad, unless it's the free as in freedom anki deck that also lets you go at your own pace and is fully customizable.

>>135798447
Huh, I booted up PS2 for the Genesis and it had hiragana. I guess it was either PS1 or I just misremembered. Sorry.

>>135798504
They teach you nothing but dumb shit that you don't need.

>>135798730
>dumb shit that you don't need
Like the Japanese language?

>>135798504
It's very good at what it's trying to do (teach you how to distinguish, remember and write Kanji), but it doesn't teach you japanese. People try to use it to learn japanese, end up disappointed when it doesn't work and shit all over it.

Is it a bad idea to show new cards randomly for the core deck?

>>135799026
Extremely

>>135799111
Why might that be?

>>135799202
The "optimized" part of Core's name is referring to the order of the cards, not the cards themselves. The order introduces kanji in an order that tries to build upon what you already know as best it can, tending to introduce words with kanji you know before words with new kanji (note that the optimization algoritihim wasn't perfect so if you pay attention you'll notice weird quirks). But, all in all it's pretty good, and the first 2,000 words in Core2k/6k (aka core2k) do a really good job of introducing all the uber-common kanji (1,000 to be precise), so if you did a random order not only would you make it harder to learn new kanji, you'd also be pulling words from Core6k into Core2k and that's bad (because Core6k by and large contains more "useless" words than Core2k).

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>>135798331
I had known kana for a while already. I started seriously thinking about learning Japanese when I jumped headfirst into kanji one day on an impulse. I just kept studying something around 10 kanji a day without really thinking about what I was doing. The only thing on my mind was learning those kanji for the time being. At first I used memrise (yeah, I was clueless), then I tried KD (Hated it. Learning several kanji with the same radical in sequence made things unnecessarily confusing. Probably why I didn't even try RTK.), then some 教育漢字 anki deck I found... Anyway, I just kept shooting everywhere because every resource seemed to be lacking somewhere. I would always kept learn at least 10 kanji a day though, so it's not as if I was procrastinating or anything. Eventually I decided to make my own deck. I used the kodansha kanji learner's dictionary (a pretty good reference book) as my main reference for that and added kanji based on a frequency list in that book. I also tried adding a few words for every new kanji I learned. That gave me a decent base vocab to start off with.

Almost immediately after I picked up kanji, I also started to read Tae Kim.

I kept this routine until I felt confident enough to start reading, which happened somewhere around 600 kanji and 2/3 of Tae Kim. I also started mining for words then. This is when I really felt like I was starting to make progress. Also, this is when I started using the DOJG (blessed be that book) in full force.

After I had a considerable amount of kanji under my belt (I had long since finished Tae Kim by then) I simply dropped the kanji deck and stuck with mining. Still, I kept a separate deck for words with new kanji because I like to make at least one recall card for every kanji I learn. I finally abandoned this recall deck just the other day. Now I just enjoy Japanese and do a few minutes of recognition reps everyday.

I also started watching raw anime at some point there.

Hope that helps somehow.

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>>135799580
Pretty much all "learning Japanese" stories end up with Anki vocabulary + consuming native material. It's nice to see justice and truth prevail.

>>135798331
Learn Japanese

>>135799677
Just to be clear, I don't think it was a bad thing to start by doing kanji individually. On the contrary. I would recommend for anyone to do the same so that they can focus on understanding radicals and how to at least give a good guess at the stroke order of a kanji. It's just that it's pointless to do all of the jouyou individually.

Like I said, I was reading and mining words before I knew even 1000 kanji. The only thing that made me keep adding cards to my individual kanji deck was habit at that point. Once I realized taking mined words with new kanji and making recall cards out of them was much more effective things became much easier for me. Some people might not even care to do recall, so that's all the more reason not to stick with individual kanji for too long.

I still don't like the idea of jumping straight into core2k though. I get the feeling, based on what a lot of people post here, that people who start just with core decks often develop the habit of just recognizing the "general shape" of the word and don't really learn to identify kanji. I think that's really bad cause it seems like it will compromise your ability to organically expand your vocab later on when you start reading.

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Who /forgottodorepsbeforechuggingabottleofrobitussin/ here?

This is gonna be a pain in the ass

>first day of jap 100
>that one white kid who knows a little bit too much japanese
> literally everyone else is chinese and thinks they'll do well because they'll recognize kanji
>they can't pronounce shit
>I have no clue what's going on
>only have to memorize 60 kanji but have to do a fuckton of speaking practice

dis gon b good.

>>135800112
Ah, I didn't do DXM in a long time.

I should do it again sometime, probably my favorite drug aside from cannabis.

>>135798504
Because you are a bad girl and you need to be punished.

>>135800132
>fuckton of speaking practice
This is the real reason jap classes are looked down on on the internet. Speaking is fucking scary.

Remember that Wanikani is the key to success!

>>135800243
Holy fuck there are literally hundreds of people who are "learning japanese" but have no speaking practice? Do they think japan is an imageboard?

>>135798701
I thought anki was only free as in free beer.

>>135799677
Why not do what you feel is best for you? Not everyone learns the same. I don't understand the holier than thou attitude, unless it's just annoyance at NYR people.

Anki is great, but it can also be really boring. Every DJT thread has people who dread having to do their reps. Tae Kim doesn't really explain things well, but is treated like a godly guide, when there's other pretty great (free) grammar resources available too.

>>135800302
They're just learning Japanese to compliment their hobbies, which usually don't involve speaking as a necessity.

>>135800112
Japanese stops me from blazing in the middle of the day because I don't do reps until night

>>135800243
The real reason is that speaking with other beginners is at best useless and at worst actually harmful to your learning.

>>135800187
It's the only thing I like but it makes language learning a little strange. Better in some ways (Ability to empathize with the speaker/japanese culture) but it directly impairs your language abilities so it's a bit of a wash.

>>135800313
Someone charging you for a pile of shit doesn't change the fact that it's a pile of shit.

>>135800391
Agreed, but I don't understand how that's related to what I said.

I'm just starting out and currently I'm just learning Kanji with flashcards by having two sided cards with kani readings and the various meanings on one side and the translation on the other, i.e.
side a:
>当てる
side b:
>to hit
>apply, put on, put against, hold against
>to allot, call on someone
>to guess
>to make a hit

The way I choose which ones to learn is just going through Tae Kim's guide, taking the newly introduced kanji in each chapter, and adding both the words that are in the guide and all the words labeled as "common" in jisho containing said kanji plus ones I learned previously. It's a slow process but I'm expecting it'll make the jump into independent reading after the guide easier. I wanted to know whether this is a terrible idea or just somewhat inefficient.

>>135800324
>Tae Kim
>treated like a godly guide
False, it's just treated like a good guide which is very accessible. Nobody praises Tae Kim for being exceptionally good.

>>135800482
That's not kanji, that's a word.

>>135800383
What plateau do you usually go for and how does it affect your reading and listening comprehension?

>>135800482
Sounds pretty good to me. Are you adding individual cards for all words or are you putting words with the same kanji in the same card?

Also, how many new words/kanji you do a day is a probably more important than any other factor in your learning method, given that you're not doing something that's simply ineffective.

>>135800607
By that I mean, I go into a new chapter of the guide. I find a word containing a new kanji. I add that to the deck. I then go on jisho and search for all other words containing the same kanji labeled as "common", as long as they don't contain any other kanji I don't yet know, and add them too.

>>135800650
Separate card for each word, as in 2 cards for 当てる, 当たる, then another 4 for both of their masu forms, etc. As for the frequency, it varies quite a bit. I'd add a substantial amount some day, and then I won't add anything 'till the amount of new cards per day decreases to something like 60. Reason is back when I had a lot of free time I tried brute forcing a shitload each day, and I'd just find my retention to be awful, so I figured I'd rather take it slower but make sure the new stuff I add actually stays.

is けど as a 語尾 like "He's not going to the store, though." or is it like "He's not going to the store; but..."?

>>135800778
>then another 4 for both of their masu forms, etc.

Holy fuck, I thought you were doing okay at first, but this is pants on head retarded.

>>135800778
>then another 4 for both of their masu forms, etc.
Don't do that. It's no very effective to use anki to learn grammar concepts. Just learn their dictionary forms, then learn how to conjugate verbs.

>>135800834
I can't think of another way of remembering which verbs are ichidan and godan though and I figure this way I simply get the verb come up twice instead of once, helping me remember it better, making it two birds with one stone.

>>135800778
>then another 4 for both of their masu forms
Yeah, don't do that.
http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/OJ.php#jodoushi

>>135800785
I can be both.

>>135800924
Wait, really?

>>135800908
95% of the time you can tell which is which from the verb ending, and the exceptions you will learn naturally. All you need to memorize is the differences between how they conjugate.

>>135800324
I'm not holier-than-thou. I just like noting that people who succeed always end up doing right way, which is consuming native material, whereas the people who fail tend to be those who don't consume native material. Anki may be boring, but the gains it provides also is a big measure of success, and it's not any more boring than the nonsense normies will put themselves through to learn a language. As for Tae Kim, the meme that's it's over-rated is something that really annoys me because it's not true, people recommend it because they used it and found success from it, nothing more; and futhermore, imabi/DOJG and recently Japanese the Manga Way (thanks to you-know-who) are usualyl mentioned in turn. You really don't see pretty much anyone saying Tae Kim is god and the best and the only thing you need, ever. The closest thing to that is people saying "just do Tae Kim and then read", which is a fair statement I think because Tae Kim is far shorter than Imabi and DOJG and therefore optimal for people wishing to read ASAP.

>>135800622
I go for two because I'm irresponsible. Three is absolute NG for language learning. Two makes it more fun but your comprehension obviously plummets. I'd say One is beneficial since you're less likely to mind that comprehension is a pain in the ass but you're not as impaired as you could be.

I think that even though a lot of drugs impair your ability to remember words, it's important to approach a language from as many emotional headspaces as possible.

>>135800908
even if you wanted to do that you have to put them on the same note or else you won't connect them properly.

>>135801015
Well, considering the massive reaction that part of my process got I guess I should delete my conjugated forms from my deck. It would make my reviews quicker, meaning I can add cards more frequently too.

>>135801053
I can connect them perfectly fine. The dictionary form and the conjugated form would have the same other side, except one card would have (dictionary form) at the end, and keep in mind they're double cards, meaning when I get the english side first I have to write out the thing.

>>135800908
Ichidan always end in iru or eru. Everything else is either godan or irregular. There are a few godan that end in eru or iru, but they are not very numerous. It's much simpler to simply know those.

>>135801106
You're beyond advice.

>>135800360
Plus the "speaking practice" tends to be the teacher saying something than the students repeating it. Wow, how helpful. Steve mentions how whenever he meets French students from a language school, he can tell they all have a bad accent in the exact same way they developed from speaking primarily to each other. If you're gonna speak, do so with real natives over Skype or some such, speaking in school isn't going to help.

>>135800961
Yeah, really.

>>135801046
Huh, I'd have expected you to go for the first plateau. It's been more than a year since I've done this, but last time I did the second plateau I was already rolling around the floor with my friends.

Come to think of it, I've only ever approached Japanese while either drunk (did not work so well) or while high on cannabis (took some more concentration, but sitting outside in the sun and reading moeshit manga on a bench while high is one of the comfiest things ever).

Have fun anon.

If I upload a word to a deck in anki through a notepad document, and then move that card to another deck, if I then reupload that same notepad document, will it make a duplicate word in the first deck, as well as keeping the one in the second deck?

>>135801498
Why don't you just try it and see what happens?

>>135801539
めんどくさい

>>135797438
RADICAL

FREEDOM

hahaha

>>135800302

As with all languages you can learn to speak fine without specifically practicing it as long as you listen to natural-sounding Japanese for long enough and know what kind of speech is used in your situation, i.e. not using girly speech patterns if you're a hairy-ass man.

It'll obviously take way longer and you'll probably always have an accent, but the odds of people ending up in a situation where they need to speak the language without them seeking out such a situation voluntarily (in which case they probably have practiced speaking) are almost non-existent.

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>>135801628

>>135801674
XD

>>135801642
Whenever I want to say something, it feels like my brain access all the Japanese I've read and scans for something to copy/build from. So whenever I can't say something, my conclusion is that I just need to read or listen more. I'm not sure where speaking to people would help in this process.

>>135801642
Consume enough media and it can shape your accent correctly too though
>eastern european uni student
>go to Ireland to make some money to live off of for next year because country is an impoverished shithole
>the Irish people in the workplace genuinely think I'm American despite the groundwork of my learning of the language came from living 5 years in Ireland as a kid beforehand

What's something I can do alongside reading Tae Kim? I understand the grammar easily enough while reading the lesson and doing the excercises, but then completely blank out when I run into it in actual material. My retention for grammar rules is shit.

>>135801924
You just have to keep reading. The DOJG deck can help, you may want to check out "All About Particles" and "Japanese the Manga Way" but seriously, you just need to keep reading.

>>135801187
Sounds comfy as heck. Mommy has a lot of weed so maybe sometime this summer I'll go down to uwajimaya and do exactly that

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>>135801975
>Mommy has a lot of weed

>>135802035
He's probably referring to either himself, his female dealer or his girlfriend.

It's a common practice in some forums to not refer to yourself whenever discussing illegal drugs, and use some kind of third-person pseudonym instead.

SWIM (someone who isn't me) is probably the most common form, and also the weakest one.

>>135802035
Seattle. Legal weed leads to some strange situations

>>135802112
Hah, well fuck me then. My drug lingo game is weak.

>>135802145
Heh, I used to be all over this stuff when I was 17.

Funnily enough, the only illegal drug I ever did was weed.

>>135801924

It's a pretty weird and specific thing that probably doesn't help you at all, but I have a mental image associated with every kana so I always take the kana that are used for the grammar and create mental scenarios that include both the associations and the function of the grammar itself.

Of course it requires unwrapping them a bit when conjugations get mixed together but in general I can remember about 80% of grammar rules pretty reliably from the first or second time I learn them. I used to suck at grammar too so I'm pretty surprised how well it has worked, the human brain is a strange-ass thing.

Can some kind anon write the lyrics of this song for me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut90Uf4o_8o

Who WaniKani + Anki here? I retain all things.

>>135802282
This shitty hipster music with the pretentious visuals and the lyrics they don't know. Godlike.

>>135802515
I just downloaded the original and I can actually hear all of what she is saying now.

>>135802282
https://soundcloud.com/hentais/shyness-boy

>>135802282
>ΛDRIΛNWΛVE
>ADRIANWAVE
>ADRIAN
>that "AY" sample at the very start that sounded like Sylvester Stalone

I kekked.

Loving the groove. Then again I am almost as much a little slut for fade-ins as I am for sweet syths.

Hate fade-outs though.

>>135802515
>hispter music
>pretentious visuals

Sounds like a generic EDM radio track with an image of a chinese catoon to go with it. Do you know what either of those buzzwords are supposed to mean?

>>135802679
Fuckboy general?

>>135802282
>>135802679
So how is this even considered music? It's literally just a complete copy-paste job with a few terrible bits added.

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>>135802738
>misspelling "fuccboi"

>>135802858
>So how is this even considered music?
Maybe because it's music? Shit man, I'unno.

>>135802112
Well, you're right, but I was literally referring to my biological mother who I live with having a lot of weed. (like wayyyyy too much for a responsible human being to have)

I'm not sure if weed effects language learning, but even if it does, whatever gets you interacting with the language is important and the fact that you'll forget whatever you learn on drugs doesn't matter. Remembering what you've forgotten is easier than learning something completely new

>>135802905
But is it? I understand the idea of remixes, and if they're actually transforming the track in some way, I can understand. But this is just adding a dumb "vapor" beat and someone turning down the volume on the main track occasionally. Can that really be considered music?

Having trouble with retention on core2k.

Today I learned that it's impossible to get blue Kanji on KanjiGrid.

>>135803265
Tell that to my blues.

>>135803150
It gets better

>>135803071
>But is it? [...] Can that really be considered music?

Yes, it can. Just because the remix has too little adjustemnts to a music tracks to justify his integrity as an artist in your view does not somehow transform the remix into non-music. I find it a nice touch to the track, comparing the two. Nobody is calling the remixer a genius or a master. It's just a touch that might be something some listeners might like. For god sakes, download a single by deamau5 or something. It will have a radio edit, an off vocal edit, a full edit, a slight remix, a slight remix featuring some other guy. Do you sperg out over that shit too and dismiss it all as "non-music" too?

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>>135803265
You jelly?

>>135803334
I don't think so. They're just leeching off in pretty big chunks.

>>135803317
Pic of the grid + grid options or fake.

>>135803380
>not even three weeks in wordcount wise

>>135803380
-> >>135803406
You can't get blue Kanji unless you cheated the options.

Card interval considered strong at 180 makes it impossible.

>>135803071
Yeah he just sped it up and accentuated the best parts of the track. It's not the best future funk track but I like it. I'd recommend マクロス82-99.

>>135803448
What's the default max interval in anki?

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>>135803398

>>135803515
THERE IS NO "CAN'T".

>>135803503
Dunno but I put 200 on my Kanji decks and still no blue in sight after decades using Anki.

>>135803549
radical meme

>>135803503
>>135803571
Apparently it's 200 by default anyway.

>>135803478
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi4Wbu3t1nw

>>135803612
"considered strong" at 180 should be fine then

>>135803398
Try WaniKani, it teaches slower but your retention rate improves dramatically.

>>135803702
Kill yourself.

>>135803380
Not really.

>>135803725
If you can't afford $5/mo. you should be the one offing yourself.

>>135803671
Should all buttons (hard, good, easy) be at 6.7 months or what? I swear I feel like I can't get any. How was it for those who managed to get blue Kanji without messing with the options?

>>135803725
What is wrong with you? Why do you lash out? Why are you so full of hate? Why would you post something like that? I don't understand. Is there something wrong with you? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage? Gefrannis booj pooch boo jujube; bear-ramage. Jigiji geeji geeja geeble Google. Begep flagaggle vaggle veditch-waggle bagga?

>>135803767
Not sure whether kanjigrid uses the current interval or the last successful interval.

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>>135803380
>cheats the card interval
>still has green kanji

>>135803827
Mmm, makes sense.

>>135803813
>jujube
Hello reddit.

>>135803758
>>135803855
Kill yourself.

>>135803870
From the look of it he hasn't even learned easy shits like 弱 either.

>>135803855
>samefagging

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Well my first day of doing a deck for all my suspended cards went well

kill me

>>135803920
羽 I mean, whatever, both are related.

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>tfw gf is bragging me into learning japanese so I can read naruto as soon as it comes out
I keep telling myself it will worth it, but it's so hard

>>135803977
Naruto stopped coming out.

Is there a way to get Anki to let you have different card formats for subdecks in the same parent?

>Struggling with Anki
>Can't finish a grammar guide
>Can't read even simple sentences
>This is five months in

>>135804024
Yes?

>>135804075
I'm 12 months in and haven't memorized more than a hundred words.

>>135804075
I've been at it on and off for a year and I can't read shit not have finished a single guide. I can merely take joy from the fact that letting other people know what a fucking failure I am gives them hope. Keep at it.

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>Cornucopia of Resources
>Cornucopia

>>135804075
>>135804142
>>135804170
I could coach you people and make you successful at Japanese but in the meantime I wonder what I'd even get from this. It's not like I'd get paid or anything.

I wish I could code and shit, I could make a wanikani-style website but better and earn money for teaching plebs Japanese. Too bad I'm too lazy to learn how to code.

>>135804178
Cornucopia letteralmente significa "corno di ricchezze" dal latino "cornu" e "copiae".
Penso sia un termine adatto alla risorsa.

>>135804227
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/

Anki is written in python. Anki extensions are written in python. The easiest-to-recommend source for non-programmers to learn programming teaches python. The teaching habits the author uses are compatible with the needs of ankidrones. Learning programming languages is like learning spoken languages, only like 100x easier. You can learn python, you can modify anki, you can make your dreams come true.

>>135803341
>All noise is considered music, no matter how bad it is

The argument of people with shit taste. You probably think shitting on a canvas is art.

>>135804227
>I could coach you people and make you successful at Japanese
You couldn't coach me at shit. I'm sitting here with a PDF on vectorial and spatial math open at 23:34 with a beer in my hand, having no idea what any of this shit means, and a test coming up tomorrow, which I will fail, and as a consequence will not be allowed to take the exam, which in turn will result in me losing my state sponsored position. Everything I ever try I fail at. You think some coaching of yours will change me as a human being?

>>135804305
Non-webcancer link straight to the free web version.

http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/

>>135804307
But the base argument was that the remix barely differs from the original. How does that make the remix as a track contained in of itself bad? That would mean the original is shit too, and if that's what you're saying, then that's merely your opinnion with nothing to back it and isn't even part of the argument here.

>>135804305
>>135804369
I'll bookmark this but I'll probably never do it. Thanks anyway anons.

>>135804326
Make people's lives more successful is what I do for a living. I could totally make your life better believe it or not. The sad truth is I am not sure it'd be worth it for me to do that for you. I love helping people but I can't help everyone. I'm not Shirou.

he-who-doesnotsleep shall-enter the-depths-of-intermediatehell

>want to try watching an anime raw this season but too afraid of not understanding any of it
Is Dagashi Kashi (4chan being fucky and won't let me post it in hiragana) decent? Maybe I'll feel a bit more confident going into it if I read the source material first.

>>135804515
It's a myth.

>>135804622
When does the new season start? Also can I see the line-up anywhere?

Damn, I read all of Tae's guide over the course of a week and can't remember any of it. Maybe I should be just used an anki grammar deck and a list of Japanese particles and conjugations.

>>135804515
Anybody who doesn't give up will eventually enter intermediate hell. Unless they're only planning on using their Japanese to buy groceries and do other normalfag shit.

>>135804733
http://anichart.net/winter

>>135804733
Started a couple days ago. Just look up an anime chart or go to livechart or anichart.

>>135804749
>over the course of a week
There's your problem. Have you tried taking it slower? Taking notes also helps.

If you're going to do an anki deck do the dojg one. Learning through example sentences is the best way anki can help you with grammar.

I also don't suggest having a list of particles and conjugations by your side. That'll only make you lazy.

I suck at grammar, and kim tae just doesn't help me.
I find it too obtuse for me, I'm not all the intelligent but I do want to get better at Japanese, anyone got any other big grammar reference sites or materials that are clear?

>>135804790
>>135804784
Thank you, anons.

>>135804622
>afraid of not understanding any of it
Literally why? Are you afraid of the shame of failure?

Feels so good to complete WK reviews.

>>135804915
Literally all humans are afraid of failure. It's hardwired into our brains.

>>135804915
Because I like anime and don't want to miss stuff. If it's something that's mediocre like a lot of seasonal anime is and I read the source material beforehand though then I guess it doesn't matter.

>>135804896
Have you tried Japanese the Manga Way? It uses romaji and the scan in CoR is kind of shit but it might help.

>>135804896
Genki, Manga the Japanese the Manga Way and Visualizing Japanese Grammar should be more accessible. I haven't tried Genki personally though, but I think it's the most comprehensive of the three.

>>135804369
That's awfully basic for what really needs to be known. No wonder there are so many shit Python programmers around.

>>135804970
Then do that. You can try rewatching something you like too.

>>135804915
I am the same, I think is because I have this small amount of pride that doesn't stop me from knowing I am terrible at stuff but also goes "You will definitely know you are stupid as fuck if you try your hardest and fail"

>>135805110
>>135804958
You're not watching the anime with the intent of trying yourself or even of understanding everything. You're only doing it as practice. The only way you can fail is by not doing it.

>>135804784
Nothing seems to really stand out this season

>>135804970
You could always watch it raw first and then again with subs

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>>135805159
>The only way you can fail is by not doing it.

>>135805208
If you're gonna do it twice I'd recommend the other way around. This way he makes sure he enjoys the anime without having to worry about missing what's going on and still gets a break when trying to listen to the raws later since he already knows what's coming.

>>135805110
It's not the case of feeling shame for me, but rather being afraid of the frustration I will feel once I start putting in effort only to see myself getting no returns due to everything going over my head. Nothing is more frustrating than trying hard and genuinely wanting to learn something only to realise your effort was for nothing after applying what you were learning into practice and being completely stumped.

>>135805322
This is where I'm at. Some people just can't learn certain things.

>>135805322
>tfw skipped all that thanks to watching lots of anime before even trying to learn anything

>>135801043
It doesn't matter if the "meme" annoys you because it's accurate. Tae Kim's grammar guide IS subpar and beginners will be confidently progressing much more efficiently if they were suggested to read Japanese: The Manga Way and watch the video lessons at the Washington university visualizing japanese grammar website, then reviewing with the DoJG Anki deck.
That is a far more practical approach that covers the poor explanations and gaps in the grammar guide at guidetojapanese.org.

>>135805322
You gotta do your best and believe your efforts will pay off. The payoff won't come right away, it will take a lot of listening practice until you can get somewhere, but you can't give up just like that. This >>135805352 kind of attitude is the only thing stopping you from getting better. I'm not even trying to be a positive guy or anything. I just really believe any moron will eventually get used to and feel comfortable with listening after enough practice. It's just a matter of having the will to push through.

Also, don't feel the need to watch something like you normally would. I'd often take over an hour to watch something raw because I'd keep rewinding the video trying to understand what people were saying and looking up words. It's much more efficient to do it this way.

>>135805527
>I'd often take over an hour to watch something raw because
And by something I mean a 24 minute episode of course. It wouldn't be strange to take over an hour to watch a 2 hour long movie.

>>135805525
That's just wrong. Tae Kim is a fine introductory guide. Not sufficient, but more comprehensive than JtMW and those other sources you mentioned. If you don't like Tae Kim that's fine, but it works for a lot of people and it's pretty efficient too. I'm not saying he's god almighty and the only road to Japanese, but it's certainly a reliable road.

Rare kanji for you kanji memers. 㰷

>>135805777
>kanji

>tfw realizing you haven't interrupted your reading for nearly a whole volume

Making it.

>>135805777
>㰷
So rare not even japanese speakers know it. Good job.

>>135805909
>realizes you haven't interrupted your reading for nearly a whole volume
>interrupt your reading to blogpost on DJT
And now you blew it.

>>135806012
And mildly simple to boot.

How much time do you guys dedicate to Reading/listening practicing kanji, and anki per day or week?

>>135806241
15 minutes. Everyday.

>>135805777
>pepe
I giggled.

>>135806241
I stopped having a schedule a long time ago. I guess you could say I do a minimum of 30 minutes a day which is roughly the amount of time I spend on anki.

>>135804770
What the hell is intermediate hell? What are the requirements? I've been learning for two years now and I still feel like I'm in beginner hell. My vocab is probably at 1500, I know 1000 kanji. But when I turn on an anime or try to read something with long sentences I can't understand a damn thing.

1. 橋本が言っていたけど、中島さんは踊らないって。According to Hashimoto, Mr. Nakashima is not going to dance.

Who is talking? Is it Nakashima who said that he isnt going to dance, then Hashimoto said it to the reader? The って particle at the end.
>who is it quoting?

2. 休みの内によく寝ておきます。I'll sleep a lot during the vacation.

おきます generally means "left as such"? Help me make sense of this translation.


3. 子供が学校に行っている内に本を読みます。I read books while my child is away at school.

Why isnt it the kids that are reading the book? Is it the が particle and not a　は particle the reason? Doesnt the 行っている mean while they are heading for school? Isn't reading while walking dangerous?

>Minikreisverkehr.jpg

「行」字は複数の字音をもつ、いわゆる多音字であり、『康熙字典』など伝統的な字書では「道を歩く・行く」の意味を最初に掲載している。しかしながら、甲骨文字など古文字を見ると、「行」字は十字路の形に象っており、「道路」の意味が本義で「歩く・行く」の意味は引伸義と考えられる。

Cool fucking stuff.

>>135806813
Copy paste fail, sorry.

>>135806750
>My vocab is probably at 1500
>I know 1000 kanji
And you're still wondering why you can't understand shit? You'll be in intermediate hell once you can generally read shit but you never stop running into words you don't know and less frequently, but still very often, into kanji you don't know.

Also, those numbers are very low for 2 years. You should start putting in a little bit more effort.

>>135806750
>two years now
>vocab at 1500
>1000 kanji

A fellow wanikani subscriber :^)

>>135806241
14 hours a day for two weeks now and I'm still at the same level. Sure I know about 500 more words but the words are endless.

>>135806778
おく when added to a verb turns into "I plan on doing x"

>>135806904
Yea I've been off and on. I only really study during breaks in school. But now I'm gonna try to keep it up through the semester. Need to succeed this time to impress my Japanese friend.

>>135806959
Can we stop meming for once? Why does that shit need to mentioned in every other post.

>>135806241
Summer vacation right now.

I get up, read, eat, and give myself an hour of 4chan a day before going back to sleep.

Before starting the next term I'd like to increase my vocab by at least 10,000 words.

>>135807106
No, it means to do something in preparation, or in advance, among other meanings.

How can I correct the 'days studied' statistic so that it starts when I actually started the deck?

>>135806750
Intermediate hell is when you see no noticeable improvement in your grasp of the language no matter how much effort you put in. The improvement is there it's just not noticeable compared to the huge mountain you need to climb.

A beginner will feel like a fucking hero after the first volume of manga. Someone in intermediate hell can finish 10 VNs and still feel no closer to fluency

>usual pattern
>try to read without a crutch
>scenario A: you struggle through and continue
>scenario B: there's something that you don't know, so you plug it into an aide, like Rikai
>sometimes, when you're really tired, you just jump straight to scenario B, which can turn into a glorified machine translation if you're not careful

>scenario C occurs: you read it intuitively without really giving it any thought
>mind reacts like you've just used a glorified machine translation, because it was zero effort
>think for a split second that you need to remove the crutch and focus on the real text
>you were focusing on the real text

>>135798331
Download Genki 1 and do it all, one chapter a week will be a good pace afer hitting chapter 3
Write Kanji all the fucking time but Grammar at the beginning of each chapter is just as important. READ IT, and TEST YOURSELF!
If there is anything you do wrong after checking your answers, read more and redo till its 100% correct 100% of the time
Thats what I did at least

988 reviews. I haven't touched anki in about two months. Luckily a lot of cards still haven't shown up for review because they'd been that mature. Since anki only shows 1000+ due I assumed I'd have over 3000 reviews waiting for me. Then I did twenty or so and I was pleasantly surprised. This is pretty doable.

>>135807661
IN YOUR MOTHERFUCKING NOTEBOOK

>I "know" x amount of kanji.
Getting sick of this meme. How do you define "knowing" a kanji you sick fuck?

>>135807267
>10VNs and still feel no closer to fluency
Welp might as well kill myself right now and I hope come back as a Japanese person because this life ain't worth shit right now.

>>135807828
stale bait, finding something new.

>>135807876
It's true whether you want to admit it or not, I don't really care.

>>135807833
He only talked about the dark side of intermediate hell. The bright side is that most of the content that you might take an interesting is pretty accessible to you. It's not as if you're just working for the day when it's all going to pay off. You're enjoying the pay off then and there as you work.

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Hello all,

When applying the discount code "wanikani heart textfugu" on a year subscription on Wanikani, it brings the total down to $50 for a year. However, it also has a category labeled "Good for" with "forever" being the value. What exactly does this indicate? Does it mean that in 1 year, should I decide to renew, that it will again be priced at $50 for a year?

Thanks!

>>135807876
make it quick, bud :)

>>135807828
I guess by it being mature in anki or whatever srs you use.

>>135807727
Exactly
That guy is actually good fucking inspiration for WRITING IT DOWN

>>135807948
>might take an interesting
take an interest in*

>>135807953
It'd be $60 for a year wouldn't it? The discount only applies to monthly subscription.

>>135808003
I wouldn't call knowing vocab knowing kanji.

>>135807953
Yeah, man. Just get it.

>>135807828
When I say I know x kanji I mean it as recognizing, having an idea of their meaning and knowing at least one word with it.

>>135808074
I agree but I have a kanji deck because I use the WK deck.

>>135807497
this so much

i found myself reading some text and not needing to internally translate it into english to make sense of it.

shit sneaks up on you. i thought reading with rikai (w/anki reviews after) would turn me into a rikaibot but it actually works.

>>135807106
>>135807219
>http://libweb.nagoya-wu.ac.jp/kiyo/kiyo51/jinbun/kojin/20yamamoto.pdf
Here's a pretty extensive description of all the different おく usages. Even if you don't feel like reading the whole thing you can benefit from looking at the example sentances and the surrounding comments.

Can someone make a 2k/6k deck without the katakana words? Most of the time they are easily guessable or via context easy to learn.

Its a fucking waste of time.

>>135808276
Hit @ on them then you stupid fuck.

>>135800112
>robitussin
Delsym tastse better

>>135808276
Good luck guessing パンク is puncture then.

>>135808310
i generally hit del but meh

>>135808450
>meh
>>>/r/eddit

Is there a difference between ても and てでも?

>>135808641
Yes. The former means even if while the latter means something like even by doing, or well, that's usually how I see it used.

>>135808692
Thanks.

>>135808312
Lasts too god damn long though and doesn't get you high enough

>>135806778
>3. 子供が学校に行っている内に本を読みます。I read books while my child is away at school.

Why isnt it the kids that are reading the book? Is it the が particle and not a　は particle the reason? Doesnt the 行っている mean while they are heading for school? Isn't reading while walking dangerous?

Reading this quick jsut going before bed, I'd say it is because は not being present and therefore the topic of the sentece defaults to what is implied, which is often and in this case, the person saying this.
>(私は)
This being implied
>子供が学校に行っている
The kids are heading to school (right now)
>内に本を読みます。
内here means "my home", can also mean "my family" or even "me" when used by kawaii gals
本を読みます=read book

Im sure you already knew this not sure why I wrote it, fuck

Basically, が is not replacing は as a particle, the topic (which は is used to point to) is implied in this sentence. Get used to this, as whoever and what you are talking about will almost always be implied as long as the topic does not change. And coincidentally: just blurting out 「本を読みます」implies that YOU (the person saying it) does/will do so... And if it was a question it would be implied the reciever of the question is the implied topic, and yada yada yada...

Sorry that became long

>>135809479
Also fuck, correct me if I'm even slighty wrong anyone. I hate to give out wrong information cause my brain can't think, and I suck at teaching

>>135809479
>The kids are heading to school (right now)
The kids are at school.

>950 learned
>100 buried
"SUSPEND YOUR LEECHES" they said.

>>135809479
FUCK I MISSED THE 内

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What are some games which you played in Japanese? It might not help my studies all that much, but it's cute.

>>135810325
I play Japanese MMOs.

>>135810158
Don't think of the 内 as meaning "me" in this case though. It most certainly means "at home" in this case

>>135810325
YGO Tag Force Special
A nice mix of Hira, Kata and Kanji (being used honestly and as a chuuni LN would)

>>135810143
"Raise your leech threshhold" they said

>>135806241
Anki: 30 minutes. Used to be 60 but I'm never going that high again I hope.
Reading: At least 15 minutes lately. Sometimes several hours. I'd like to get it to at least an hour consistently.
Listening: Nothing really, but I'm trying to listen more when I watch subbed anime.
Writing/Speaking: None.

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>>135810431
>>135810158
What are they doing

>>135810542
Learning.

>>135810325
Tokyo Xanadu. Kinda meh, wouldn't really recommend all that much.

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>>135810542

>>135809479
内に means "while" or "during" in this case, indicating the span of their being at school. うちに when referring to one's home or family is much more often written 家に if written in kanji.

As >>135809702 said, the 行っている means they went, and are currently there.

>>135810731
Thanks anon

>>135810724
nice pic ill steal it i think

>>135810415
Any good ones that don't require you to play through a VPN?

>>135810936

PSO2.

Not that guy.

>>135810983
Is it still as grindy as it was during the first month after launch? I hit max level and quit soon after, took fucking forever to get some of the quests done or level

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So now equipped with my glorified rubber domes, I've made a small amount of progress on the guide, but I've also reached one of the most crucial parts (one of the reasons why I even decided to write a new one): Learning Kanji (vs. Learning Kanji through vocab)

I'd be glad to get some feedback on that part since I'm not really sure if it's extensive enough or even comprehensible.

You'll find it towards the end of the document, as always, feel free to comment right here or in the document. Your feedback is highly appreciated.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H8lw5gnep7B_uZAbHLfZPWxJlzpykP5H901y6xEYVsk/edit?usp=sharing

>>135809363
Really? the 3 times ive done it ive gotten to the point of laying flat on the floor and focusing on not dieing
I will agree on how long it lasts

>>135806241

Core 6k: 30-60 minutes
Reading: 15 minutes to 5 hours
Listening: Just what I get from subbed anime, for the most part. I'm not going to pour a lot of effort into listening until my vocabulary passes the 10k mark.
Writing: Just started production practice yesterday, so it's too early to say

変な音がしたなと、外に出てみたが、何でもなかった。

What is なと.

>>135797438
>>135801674
What the fuck are these images? I don't get it

Oh fuck my leg feel completely asleep

This is it for me guys it's been fun

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>>135811537

Why is Anki so boring?
Why can't it be fun like Wanikai?

>>135811630
Free open source shit will stay shit

>>135811189

I only started a month or two ago and I've almost maxed two classes. I haven't been playing much at all recently though because I've been studying and watching anime. I don't know what shit they added since launch but it seems to be pretty tame as far as grinding goes though it is an MMO at the end of the day.

So I noticed something today after my reps.

Both the "Nihongoshark" and "Japanese Dark" systems advocate placing furigana (and even audio) on the front of vocab cards, with only the english definition and example sentence on the back.

What are the drawbacks of this, vs. the "only kanji on the front" default method of Core?

Could it be that it's a better way? What do you think, /djt/?

>>135811755
You won't be able to watch anime.

>>135811755
Benefits:
You get a higher percentage of correct cards.
Negatives:
You don't learn any kanji.

>>135811907
Matching pronunciation to meaning would hurt your ability to watch anime?

>>135811329
>laying flat on the floor and focusing on not dieing
>3 times

Druggies are the stupidest people. I hope you overdose.

>>135811992
Read more.

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>>135811516
>と、
「変な音がしたな」と、～

>>135812039
I read a chapter of LN before I did my reps and then was reading up on study techniques a bit. I'm serious here so please answer seriously.

>>135812204
what is the na doing there

>>135812363
語尾

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If I start studying like, right now...
How long will it take me to reach, say, N5-level proficiency?

>>135812401
A week or two?

>>135812401
If you stay up, maybe a day.

>>135812401
Depends on how much anime you have watched. You might be N5 level already

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Setting up IME on OS X.

Really like how it shows hiragana and katakana in-line with my other languages.

Is there a difference between standard QWERTY (U.S. in pic related) and Romaji? Would it make sense to disable either U.S. or Romaji in the settings? Would that affect things like spell-checking when I am writing in English?

>>135812214
I imagine it'll make doing your reps and reading material with furigana easier, while making reading material without furigana more difficult. Reading material with furigana is pretty painless to begin with so that's not what I would focus my attention on.

>>135812530
US is non-ime, romaji/fullwidth are both still IME

>>135812431
>>135812432
>>135812496
I knew it was the lowest of the low, buy I never thought it was that low.

>>135812530
Romaji uses a different encoding. They're English characters, but use the same spacing as full-width kanji.

I just disable Romaji in my settings. Saves headaches with encoding.

>>135812626
It's not THAT low, but it's pretty low. Like, Japanese 101.

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>>135812626
Pic's my JCAT after doing literally nothing but english-subbed anime for a year, then starting to "learn" japanese and failing very miserably.

>>135812626

I accidentally brushed shoulders with a Japanese person once and the next day I could pass the N5.

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>>135812363
日本語の大きな傾向として「長ければ長いほど意味が弱まる」よ。おにいちゃん

音がした
音がしたな
音がしたなあ
音がしたかもな
音がしたかもなあ
音がしたかもしれない
音がしたかもしれないな
音がしたかもしれないなあ
音がしたのかもしれないかなあ

>watched first season of Soukyuu no Fafner
>it was kinda boring so hardly paid attention and just shitposted on 4chan
Is the movie or the sequel any better or should I just not bother?

>>135812814
I accidentally watched the first episode of the sequel series to the movie.

It's pretty much exclusively an /m/fag thing.

Would anyone happen to have scans of バッドカンパニー by Tooru Fujisawa? I found it on nyaa but its only going 2kb/s

>>135812616
>>135811917
That makes sense.

Looking at it some more, it seems they provide not just the reading but also the meaning of all kanji on the front as well. Thinking about it, those "systems" also feature RTK-style dedicated kanji study (meaning to kanji), so maybe they believe that will make up for it?

What's THE DJT anime to watch this season?

>>135812775
「意味が弱まる」ってどういう意味？
確実でなくなるってこと？

I was struggling with core 2k because I could remember the meaning of the kanji in english but could'nt spell it. Then i tried wanikani free trial and it does'nt even show me the reading. Am I supposed to just memorize the meaning and go to the next one?

>>135813042
wanikani is retarded and tests meaning/sound separately yet grades them on the same ranking

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>>135812720
That's a good reason to keep that shit disabled then, thanks.

Kinda confusing to go from two keyboard layouts to 5, not to mention actually typing kana.

ｂｕｔ　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｂｒｉｇｈｔ　ｓｉｄｅ　ｉ　ｃａｎ　ｈａｖｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｍｅｍｅ　ｌｅｔｔｅｒｓ　ｎｏｗ．

>>135813009
The top item of your backlog pile.

>>135812363
exclamation

>>135813042
Aren't you still on the radical section? On each level you have to pass the radical section before advancing to the kanji section, which you have to pass to advance to the vocabulary section.

>>135813028
せやな

>>135813083
I don't have a backlog. I don't usually watch animays. Actually I'm fine with DJT anime from previous seasons as well.

>>135813070
>>135813105
Thanks. Guess i just have to study more then.

What's the best way to practice numbers? I've got them down for the most part, but it takes me a few seconds of thinking before reading out longer numbers.

>>135813214
Please don't actually stick with WK, it might be tempting at first but at the end of the day you're going to have just as many reviews as core but be going slower because its SRS system is worse.

>>135813234
Just be yourself.

>>135813131
せやなのかもしれへんなあ

>>135813180
The just watch EVA.

There's no DJT anime because DJT doesn't talk about anime.

>>135813266
>せやなの
anon what have you done

>>135813234
Do something that forces you to use a lot of numbers. Try doing math in Japanese. Try telling the time in Japanese every time you look at the clock. Try saying every number you run across in Japanese, even if it's just in your head.

WK is decent, just use the deck. I don't understand you people.

Motivation Lost! I have been working on Japanese for 3 years. Only about 30 minutes per day. I took the JLPT N5 last year and failed. I recently starting taking practice tests for the N5, and I have been doing just as poorly, so it seems like I will fail again. My motivation has completely left me. I feel like I haven't made any progress, even though I had a great trip to Japan where people actually talked to me in Japanese. I was hoping some of you would be willing to share stories of your own pain and redemption along the path of fluency. Advice would be most welcome too.

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>>135813266
せやろか。なんやそやおまへんのかもとおもうて

>>135813254
ok. using wanikani for me is terrible because my phone's internet is shit so wanikani is too slow. I will continue using anki. thanks.

>>135813406
Imagine it's a cute kansai loli with a speech quirk and it's all good.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0f55lv0Lpzx

Anyone who's done pure self-studying for a while here?

I'm thinking about starting but I don't know how successful I can get by myself. Don't really know anyone to practice with.

I took Jap 1 for fun a couple years ago but only know half my kana now. Any tips not on the stick links?

Is it just me or are there more new people than normal

>>135813721
You can read manga and VNs through self study. Well, the lower difficulty ones anyway. For speaking, writing and listening comprehension you're going to need a teacher.

>>135813816
Community colleges started their Winter quarter this week.

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>>135813472
Can you read in Japanese? I mean. If I gave you a baby tier LN like Oreimo would you be able to just sit down, follow the text and understand what's happening? Even if you came across many unfamiliar words here and there and maybe had to check the dictionary occasionally, would you be able to just look at the text and read it?

If the answer is no. What the hell have you been doing these three years? I wouldn't tell you to give up because you've clearly been doing something wrong, which means you still have a chance if you start doing things right.

I tried reading a vn but it just made me feel terrible as it kept throwing words I didn't understand at me.

>>135813721
>Anyone who's done pure self-studying for a while here?
I suspect the majority have.
>I'm thinking about starting but I don't know how successful I can get by myself.
As successful as you care to get. Learning langauges isn't difficult, it's just a matter of putting enough time in to get used to them.

t. LingoSteve

>>135813920
That's how it's going to be for a very long time. Better get used to it.

>>135813234
1. Google for a random number generator
2. Generate random number
3. Read it
4. Repeat

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翳

僕はトムにメアリーに電話された。

Tom called Mary (and I was unhappy).

I fail to see where "I" plays into this at all.

>>135814289
靄とか朧という表現をつかってもいいとおもうよ

>>135814452
あなたを使ってもいいですか？～～

>>135814334
>子供が泣く
>僕が困る
>僕は子供に泣かれた

>嫁が逃げる
>僕が困る
>僕は嫁に逃げられた

>トムがメアリに電話をする
>僕が困る
>僕はトムにメアリーに電話された。

>>135814545
So its implicit that you are bothered?

It says no such thing in the acutal sentence.

>>135814452
そっか。ありがたい！

>>135814632
It's implicit that you had no choice, and since you had no choice you must've been bothered by it because otherwise you would've structured your sentence in such a way that didn't include you.

You have to realize that out of all the possible ways to say tom called maria, that sentence specifically makes light of the fact that you weren't involved in the action, and why would you do that if not for your annoyance/lack of control?

The japanese are vague bastards, that sentence structure is the closest you can get to saying you're pissed off while not offending anyone directly.

>>135814694
>>135814502
Fuck off. Use American to communicate on American image boards.

>>135814452
霧はダメか

Do you guys use standard IME shortcuts or do you change them?

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>>135814802

>>135814773
But why does it have to mean that you're bothered

>>135814802
あなたバカ？

>>135814802
断るですわ

>>135814908
Because that's how people use it.

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What order am I suppose to do?

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Feels great.

>>135815185
Left to right is how I'd fuck.

>>135815402

I'd fuck center and camera the rest are whatever.

>>135815365
>naked
>they're all half dressed