Daily Japanese Thread #913

Oh for fucks sake

>>118062513

Anyone having problems with sound in Anki? What program is used for audio to work?

>>118062571
mplayer

>>118062644
thanks

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>>118062138
>Do you guys still forget shit? I'm only two days into Kanji/Vocab, but I still feel really bad about forgetting shit.
Take some amphetamines.

>>118062532
both threads are wrong ffs

>>118062532
This is maybe the best reason why the OP picture should not be changed all the time

>>118062138
Forgetting is normal and fine; remembering is easier than learner. Sometimes I forget basic shit. Such is life.

>>118062755
what's wrong with them?

>>118062816
i though previous thread link was wrong. got fucked up on copy pasting, my bad sorry.

Reviews first or new cards first? What do you think?

>>118062924
New cards as a reward for reviews

I'm still confused of へ and に.
家へ帰りました
家に帰りました

Which means "I went home." Are both sentences correct?

>>118063088
DOJG, dude. Otherwise, don't stress too much about particles like that.

>>118063088
Towards/to

Basically

>>118062796
This is why writing is the hardest part of Japanese language because you have to memorize the stroke. Reading is probably the easiest as long as you know the words.

>>118063186
>because you have to memorize the stroke

Does anyone actually do this?

Stroke order follows a general pattern; http://www.tofugu.com/guides/guess-kanji-stroke-order/

>>118063101
What the hell is DOJG? Sorry, newfag here.

>>118063186
Mmm, not quite? Stroke order isn't so tough. Radicals all have the same stroke order and they're universally present in Kanji. The tough part is remembering exactly what radicals were where in a kanji.
>>118063223
Dictionary of Japanese Grammar.

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>>118063221
So is /pol/ going to actually try to "strike back" now?

Is beta jisho not returning search results for anyone else?

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>>118063212
Are you fucking serious?

>http://www.kasi-time.com/item-66198.html
>だからそう　ひとつずつ
>ゆっくりと手をつないでいくの

Is 手をつないでいく similar to 持っていく in meaning and that they're slowly walking hand-in-hand in the lyrics?

Nice to see that shit never changes here. Would not be /DJT/ if we did not have incompetent OPs.

>>118063383
I don't know what you're getting angry about, your image expresses exactly what the link I posted says.

>>118063469
This OP is perfectly fine. Quit your bitchin'.

>>118063469
It's the most boring time of the day. All the normalfags are at work and the others are watching anime and shit.

Lost all my links to Japanese media sites and streams. Can anyone share?

>>118063680
There are some in the guide

>>118063495
>Horizontal Goes First
That's purely wrong.

>>118063386
Yee

>>118063633
>4chan
>work
does not compute

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>need to look up word
>Jisho is down
>completely fucked by this

>>118062724
Nah, it's because he's only two days in.
It will pass with time. It's normal to forget when only two days have passed.

>>118063386
持っていく is "go somewhere while carrying something. Like "take something and go with it somewhere".

手をつないでいく might be "going somewhere while holding hands", but the -ていく can also indicate that it'll be happening in the future, which is what I think it means in your case.

Because you have ひとつずつ (one by one) and 手をつないでいくの... the meaning will be "one by one people will start holding hands". Or like "more and more people will hold hands as time goes on" etc.

By the way -てくる can be used to indicate that something has happened. Like 私の病気は悪化してきた。 - "My illness has gotten worse worse".

Anyway, another reason why I think your case is the "will be happening in the future" thing is because the いく is not written using kanji.

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>>118063755

それでも…私は…そなたに惚れても良いか？

>>118063845
いえ、いけない

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>>118063212
>tofugu

>>118063088
へ = Direction
に = Location/Target

When in doubt, use に

>>118063900
Yeah, the guy's a faggot, but that's one actually good article of his.

>>118063845
Still mad.

>>118063801
he probably just meant that they're jerking off

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What's the first kanji in this? I'm getting fucked on radical searches and can't find it. This shouldn't be happening, I'm so deep into this shit ;_;

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>>118063806
This might be useful.

>>118063806
tangorin

>>118064049
It actually is pretty helpful, I always mixed up お尻 and ふともも.

>>118063841
What. I write 木 with parallel first then horizontal.

>>118064087
Tangorin doesn't have the nifty ?? feature. e.g. "?陽" to find results like 太陽.

I was using it to find the kanji in >>118063993 but that didn't work either.

>>118064049
I'm at fucking work!! Spoiler that kind of shit next time man.

>>118063383
It's an exception.
Exceptions are pretty rare, overall. To be reasonably sure you haven't met one, look up the stroke order for all the radicals/kanji which don't visibly consist from other radicals or the readicals/kanji which you haven't seen written yet when you meet them; to be really, 99% sure, check out anything that seems funny or kinda confusing to you, if you're sure you know how to write this one, you most likely do know it, and if you aren't sure (i.e., it breaks some patterns), it mostly likely is still written in the most boring and consistent way possible, but when you've seen it written one time, the "exception" usually works the same in every other kanji too.
There are a few exceptions even from these rules (e.g., left and right), but they're pretty rare, at least from those kanji I've studied the stroke order of, i.e. about half of Jouyou.
I'm going through RTK, so it could be that the pattern just utterly breaks closer to the end, but I really doubt it.

>>118064145
>?陽
pretty sure you can just do *陽

>>118064213
Those behave differently. ? is more forceful than * if I recall.

>>118063221
But anon, that's exactly why I want to marry him.

>>118062510
I'll be on the country side next week and I can only bring camera and my DS for entertainment. Do you guys approve of My Japanese Coach DS? I'm not so advanced yet but I can make sentences like 彼女は私に指輪呉れて貰った。

>>118064360
>Do you guys approve of My Japanese Coach DS
Er... no. It might be marginally better than nothing, but I doubt it. It might be better to print a bunch of kanji detailed sheets from RTK or somesuch and bring them with you.

>>118064049
i wanna lick that ass

>>118064469
you can't it's just a drawing

>>118063841
He probably associated it with 日 or 月 or 田 which are written beginning with vertical, which they do because the second stroke goes both horizontal and vertical, as the first stroke in 母 goes. When it doesn't, the horizontal stroke is usually the first, though.
Overall, he's right, and I was confused about the same thing for a really long time. This kanji is just an exception, overall.

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>>118063993
Since no one responded, I guess no one knows. Well, I skipped it and saw the kanji again. Turns out it's - 吸い付く. Not sure why it's drawn like that. Oh well!

>>118064360
>彼女は私に指輪呉れて貰った。
Just play a Japanese version of Pokemon (any will do) and you'll learn 100x more than My Japanese Coach.

>>118064584
I imagine playing a Japanese game at a low level with no access to a dictionary would be pretty hellish. The DS dictionary would take too much effort to constantly switch too, I imagine.

>>118064499
i can print it and lick if i want to so fuck you.

>>118064609
Then I advise him to bring a Japanese pocket dictionary.

>>118064529
I tried to look it up.
I would've never guessed, even though it does kinda look like it.
It doesn't help that just 口 is used too much to be useful (my dictionary has about 1000 kanji with it) and the second part looks really much like 反 but is not this radical.
So, I guess, thanks for telling me 及 can be written this way? Custom fonts are really the worst. No wonder Japan has so few of them.

One thing that's more confusing about kanji is the combination of on/kun and it's meaning.
For example: 寝取られ
寝 means sleep
取 means take
but 寝取られ means "stealing loved ones from a person" so it should have a different kanji. It's killing me.

>>118064919
You're welcome; it is the 及 radical. I only realized it 'cuz 吸 was present in both the Jisho searches. Indeed, fuck custom fonts. I'm sure someone very familiar with Japanese is gonna pop in and say that's a common style, though.

>>118065064
寝 actually means the act of lying down (in order to sleep), so it makes sense.

>>118065064
I don't see how it's confusing.

Also, 寝る means "go to sleep".　眠る means "to sleep".

So when you... never mind, see >>118065114

>>118065064
That term is fairly straightforward. Maybe it's that you're thinking in terms of a fairly loose English translation?

>>118065114
>>118065140
ohhh

>>118063806
>>need to look up word
>>Jisho is down
>>completely fucked by this

Not owning a real japanese/kanji dictionary. shig dog diggity.

Seriously printed media exist also cant you download J-DICT and use it offline?

>>118065208
I guess comparing kanji to an English translation is not good. So if 寝 means 'the act of lying down' and 取 is 'to take' (probably take the hymen etc) that makes sense I guess.

>>118065259
zkanji is pretty good

>>118065259
There's pretty much no reason to ever use a physical dictionary if you have access EDICT.

>>118065363
You probably shouldn't even try to make literal sense out of a idiomatic word; especially by using English.

Are there any things like real kana that include diagraphs like きゃ? RK only seems to have diacritics (ぎ).

>>118065408
I used to think the same, but then I realized I become too dependent on just looking things up so quickly that I stopped tying to memorize things. Now I only use physical because i know it takes more effort and is less efficient so I typically put more effort into remembering words I look up.

Are there any fully voice acted VNs?

>>118065866
I look up words via radical search and manual typing, not rikai or ITH or some such. I honestly don't see how looking down a huge list of words, trying to wrap my head around radical order / their kana order will help me too much.

>>118065866
>that I stopped tying to memorize things
that's what anki is for

>>118065903
>fully
There are VNs which have voices for the protagonist, but I don't think there are any that voices every single line of narration.

>>118065903
If you mean the protagonist having a voice too, yes. Though the inner monologue is never voiced, as far as i know.

Where can I get RtK 6th ed? I mean, I'm a poorfag and I could find only the 4th edition.

>>118065977
You can't depend on anki to be your main source of vocabulary acquisition in the late-game.

>looking at the guide
>"You may want to simply use the shared deck for Anki"
>There isn't a link to that in the resources list
What is this mysterious deck? I know there is a kanjidamage deck for anki, but I don't know how "Shared" comes in to play here.

> take N2 test
> audio part
> pretty difficult
> suddenly this question about the sweets in the fridge
what the fuck?

>>118066030

I din't say that. It's for reviewing vocabulary that you have already found while reading.

>>118066030
this, I am very pro anki. However, I think it has taken me as far as it can already.

Also isn't that hanabira game fully voice acted?

>>118066052
Was the N2 listening test at native speed or were they talking a bit slower?

>>118065954
HKR is the best way to look up words imo.

>>118066138
I would say it was native speed, although a bit more cleary pronounced than native people would do in casual situations.

>>118066051
You don't want it; Core2k/6k is objectively superior.

>>118066305
This, Core2k/6k makes learning individual Kanji practically useless.

>>118066543
>This, Core2k/6k makes learning individual Kanji practically useless.

learning individual kanji is useless at that level.

>>118066612
It's useless at any level if you use Core2k/6k

>>118066543
it's hilarious watching you guys mix up kanji constantly because you don't even understand radicals

>>118063212
>rare exceptions
乗
母

>>118066612
It's literally the first thing you start after learning kana. There is no point in learning core if you already know a lot of Kanji and associated words.

>>118066645
nah once I finish 6k and my first vn I started focus a lot more on kanji and it really helped out. Then again I am also learning to write so your mileage may vary.

>>118066702
There is no point in kanji is you don't know the words associated with them. What is the point of learning 章or 品 if you don't even know any words that use those kanji. Once you know the word 商品 you already learned both kanji. However, the reverse is not true, you can know both 商 and 品 individually as kanji but you might not know that both of them together make up a common word.

Wasn't this argument won ages ago? That is why no one does RTK or Kanji Damage.

>>118066716
I haven't finished Core yet, but I started out using it alongside a KD deck. I felt like the KD deck was useless as most of the things I was learning with the KD deck I was learning about with the Core deck, but in a less convoluted manner.

>>118066684
My visual memory is pretty good, I just need a lot of practice and that's it.

If I feel like I'm missing something Kanji-wise I'll surely give it another go.

I bet voiced kana came about from all the drunk businessmen coming home to their wives and slurring their words together.

>>118066940
I made the mistake of doing kanji damage before getting grammar and vocab down. I wont say it was a wasted 3 months because I learned a lot about radicals and mnemonic devices but it is the inefficient route.

With Grammar and Vocab at the very least you will be able to understand spoken Japanese.

Individual kanji study is really more of a late game thing. You will natually pick up the 500-1000 most common kanji if you just spend more time learning the language.

>>118066684
yeah, and the thing is, just learning to write kanji (with proper stroke order) all but guarantees you'll learn the patterns and radicals.

unfortunately there's this new "why learn to write, we have computers" thing going on these days. (it's similar to the "why learn arithmetic, we have calculators" mentality, keeping people retarded)

>>118067257
I keep telling people there are easier ways to fapp to Chinese cartoons if that is all they want to learn japanese for.

If you are going to learn the language at least be able to read and write it.

>>118067257
I think most people recognize that writing is helpful but it's arguably the least useful of all japanese language skills especially for the time required to learn it properly

>>118067396
No extra time at all if you are already writing as a way of learning kanji. I don't get it, people doing 1000+ anki cards per 30 min by holding down enter really think that is practice? I set aside only 30 min to go over the new kanji I have learned in the past week. Once you know the stroke order you don't need weird nmumonics, once you learn to write all the radicals all kanji are pieces of cake to write. Only the new ones will give you problems.

>>118067567
I don't have 1000+ cards and I don't hit down the enter key.. if you are trying to make a point don't use wild strawman assumptions

>>118067617
I said people not "you", someone is awfully defensive. If that does not apply to you then why respond?

>>118067396
If you can't write in a language you can't call yourself fluent or literate, period. Stop being a fucking child and accept the fact that being able to write in the target language is just as important as every other aspect of the language.

If an adult were able to read, speak, and comprehend spoken English, but they weren't able to write a sentence properly, I'd consider them borderline retarded.

>>118066915
Knowing the kanji in a word you don't know makes it much easier to learn, which makes it easier to pick up new words you see while reading.

From core 2k to 10k there are ~1100 unique kanji, and 8000 words. It would be much faster to learn those kanji on their own, or with one word, and likely more beneficial, since you don't want to learn literally all of your vocabulary from anki.

>>118067713
>getting mad because people learn different things than you
people have different goals and they don't care about you thinking they are fluent or not, you don't need to be autistic about it

>>118067761
Fuck off.

>>118067794
>you don't need to be autistic about it
Being unable to write in a language you can speak, read and comprehend the spoken language of is something people may consider a symptom of a mental defect such as Autism.

>>118067794
>you don't need to be autistic about it
oh he does

>>118067768
I did kanji before vocab and i disagree 100%. Knowing a kanji does not make it easier to learn a word.

>>118067567
You still mess up what radicals go there though. I have a copybook with all the 常用漢字(25 fucking times each, you bitch). It was fun and my handwriting is pretty good now but I wouldn't say it's very educational.

>>118067794
>a well rounded approach to learning a language is being autistic

There was a time here on /a/ when normalfags would be told to fuck off, instead now they are here in droves.

>>118067881
it does but you're dumb

>>118067924
getting mad because people have different goals than you is literally autistic
look up "theory of mind and autism"

>>118067881
>Knowing a kanji does not make it easier to learn a word.
It does, and this is due to how the human brain handles language. You can say it doesn't all you like but the science contradicts this.

>>118067713
>Stop being a fucking child and accept the fact that being able to write in the target language is just as important as every other aspect of the language

But for a lot of people here it obviously isn't, unless you're only concerned about being able to label yourself "literate".

It's quite likely that I will never in my life have any reason to write kanji. So clearly it is less important for me to be able to write kanji than any other aspect of the language.

>>118067998
>getting mad
I'm not mad. Another aspect of Autism is the lack of ability to accurately perceive human emotion.

So what I'm learning from this thread is that I don't need to learn Kanji individually but I do?

>>118068047
>I'm not mad.
so fucking salty

>>118067936
No it does not help you learn the spoken word or help to identify it in listening or speaking. All it will do is help you recognize a word when it is written. I will NOT help you learn to speak or identify the word when it is spoken.

>>118068041
>But for a lot of people here it obviously isn't
You speak for a lot of people now do you?

>>118068060
Ate cottage cheese recently. A lot of sodium.

>>118067713
>>118067794
Sad too see even after all this time, the DJT still has "definition of literacy" trolls/autists, and the djt still eats the bait. Feel free to search the archive, this topic has had thousands of posts dedicated to it.

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>>118068047
>telling people to fuck off
>I'm not mad

>>118068058
Do whatever you want. No one has proven one method to be more efficient than the other. Just choose whichever one seems less tedious to you. Don't be like the anon in the previous thread I think it was who had restarted RtK 10 times or whatever

>>118068001
can you provide links to said scientific conclusion?

>>118068101
>No it does not help you learn the spoken word or help to identify it in listening or speaking.

Yes it does. When you hear a word your brain makes several neurological connections to recall the concept.

>>118068126
>using an expletive means you must be angry
The fuck cunt?

>>118068160
So I won't be missing out on anything if I don't learn Kanji individually?

>>118068188
Can you show that it's more efficient to learn kanji in isolation and learn vocabulary afterwards then it is to learn both in conjunction with each other?

>>118068265
>Can you show that it's more efficient to learn kanji in isolation and learn vocabulary afterwards then it is to learn both in conjunction with each other?

Why would I? That isn't the claim I'm making.

>>118068305
What's the fucking point then

>>118068250
You won't be able to write with a pen, you might mix up kanji, it will take a bit longer to learn words (but not "impossibly longer").
But you will probably be able to read and speak and listen just fine. With time.

Today I learned that different people like different things and learn in different ways. Neat.

>>118068345
That being able to write Japanese properly is a vital aspect of Japanese language competency, that and a lack of writing proficiency will form a bottleneck to your total language proficiency.

>>118068369
>you might mix up kanji,
Conjecture
>it will take a bit longer to learn words (but not "impossibly longer")
Misleading. Doesn't account for the time it took to learn the kanji

>>118068395
I only learned this one after reading the guide (which was pretty late into my studies, because I didn't know about DJT). Before I was convinced otherwise.
Maybe all these people didn't read the guide too?

>>118068492
>Maybe all these people didn't read the guide too?
I'd wager a good 95% of the cunts who post here haven't even clicked on any of the links in the OP.

>>118068456
>Conjecture
Why do I see it in threads all the time then? Do you think I personally write all these posts.
>Misleading
Yeah, you're right, I completely forgot that it could be misinterprented. I wanted to write about it, but it just slipped my mind in the process.
Mind you, RTK takes 2 months tops with a good schedule, but learning Core is probably quicker overall.

>>118068369
Surely with enough practice I'll be able to differentiate Kanji, though? I guess I'll keep doing Kanji, I'm just scared I'll turn myself off from doing Japanese because of how pointless some of it is whilst I'm doing Core2k/6k.

>>118068395
Have you considered that possibly those people are just under the impression that one way is better for them, when in fact another way would actually help them learn faster.

I've personally jumped around to 3 different learning methods and each time I felt like "this is definitely the best way". So of course now I have to accept I might be wrong a 3rd time

>>118068740
And have you considered that they've also done the same, and came to the same conclusion, but with a different method?

>>118068736
>Surely with enough practice I'll be able to differentiate Kanji, though?

If it were that simply things like the 日本漢字能力検定協会 wouldn't exist.

>>118068265
It depends on what you mean by learning them in conjunction. Core takes 10,000 words to cover 2000 kanji. You could still learn those kanji through vocab but use fewer cards.

If it's more efficient to learn new words in context by reading, and if it's easier to learn new words when you already know their kanji, then it might be most efficient to use the least cards necessary to learn the kanji, and then get new words by reading.

>>118068862
I don't think it's more efficient to learn new words by reading than by using Anki

>>118068736
Well, yeah, with enough practice you will. Or if you go through the radicals and learn to differentiate them.
Also, the further you go, the harder it will be to stop. Because effort justification.
Mind you, I'm doing RTK on Anki, and I think it's the better method, because it doesn't bore me out of my mind and being able to write is neat and its flaws are overblown, I think, but just saying, the further you go, the less sensible it will seem to stop. Unless you're really only beginning, then you might do like 100 to get an understanding of the way kanji work.
Also, if you do it, do it quick. It is possible and it is preferrable to lazing around. RTK only pays off all the time waste on it, if you go in half a year, max. 2 months is a perfectly normal figure, by the way.

>>118066021
You can use this with the 4th edition
http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/en/files/2012/12/RK1-Supplement.pdf

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Sup /djt/.
Am I doing it right? Will I become one of you someday?

>>118068989
That kind of depends what you mean by "learn". Anki is great for planting the seeds of familiarity for a great many words in a short amount of time, but does it help you learn them? Isn't that something you do by reading native material after you have succinctly seeded enough words to make a bit of a spongy bed for yourself which makes the fall into native material a little bit softer?

Semantics, though, I guess.

>>118069110
That's a nice looking nip, mang. I'd say you're well and truly already one of us.

>>118068250
Your question implies there's only 2 options, learn them or not.

There's a 3rd and it's actually very helpful. That is to use the meaning of kanji to drive how you think about the words. Doing it this way, you don't memorize their meanings you just gloss over them. Say you know お茶, and 色, and then you come across 茶色. If you simply glance at the meaning of the kanji you can then see a very convenient way to remember the kanji that appear in the word "light-brown".

If you start doing this you will notice tons of shortcuts like that which make memorizing the words a breeze.
It's so helpful to do it this way I can't even imagine how much more difficult of a time I would be having if I hadn't been doing this

>>118069004
Is the RTK deck in the guide? I'm using the KD deck but it's boring just looking at them and learning how to say them. I am only a beginner so that's probably why I'm not a fan of Kanji since the ones I'm learning are more often than not in Core2k/6k.

>>118069110
but meme arrows point the other way anon

>>118069110
If you were doing it right then you wouldn't be one of us

>>118069110
>not 愛

>>118069122
Only for more complicated words, I'd say. But yes, to an extent. But reading is the end goal for most of us and something we will be doing anyway, so it's not like you choose Anki instead of reading. You choose Anki to facilitate reading

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>>118069175
Thanks. I'll do my best.

>>118069176
That's really the best way to go about it, I didn't even start doing it consciously, it just happened spontaneusly without me trying.

>>118069176
I'm all for exploring options but everyone keeps telling me different things that I'm not sure what exactly to do. That's the problem I have with Japanese, there's so many ways to learn it that I'm not sure what's best for me.

>>118069176
>That is to use the meaning of kanji to drive how you think about the words.
Kanji don't have inherit meaning.

>>118069110
>tooilet topic where it is
kek

but it's nice you've got motivation, keep it up

>>118069434
Just fucking commit to something. However inefficient Rtk or Anki might be relative each other, you're going to end up wasting more time if you don't choose one alternative now and just start actually studying

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>>118069233

>>118069434
>there's so many ways to learn it that I'm not sure what's best for me.
Pick one and use it till it stops working, then move onto something else.

You're not going to know what works for you until you've already spent a long time studying. There maybe be up to 10% of efficiency to be gained by methodology alone, but the rest comes down to actual time spent with the language.

>>118069434
The only way you'll know is by trying something that sounds attractive, analyzing what works, and doesn't work, and adjusting from there. It's how we all came to our different methods, and it's the only road a self-learner has to find theirs.

>>118069180
Dunno, I looked it up on the Anki site.
As a result I chose two decks: one that contains only kanji and meaning (keyword->kanji; the other way is probably more useful for recognition, because you might not remember the kanji immediately upon seeing it, but I didn't change it because this one forces me to learn them better and get creative with stories, and in 90% of cases I remember them right away anyway) and another one that has two top stories from Reviewing The Kanji site (because I was too lazy to register there, and most often two top stories are enough, and if they're not I think up my own story). I don't use the second deck for reviews because I don't want to be able to look up the story unless I have to, so I only use it for cross-referencing the stories through the browser.
Though my way is probably hella backwards. I just kinda rolled with it when I had no idea, and now I'm too lazy and it works good enough for me to change it.

>>118069434
I'm approaching 3 years into Japanese now, anon. I have tried many different methods by now, and have settled on one that works. You just do something, whatever it is, then improve it by adding shit that might work, removing stuff that doesn't, and just putting in time while you try that shit out.

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>>118069499
I started because of this guy's video. It seemed fun so I'll continue until I eventually give up like with everything else.

>>118069703
I've used a few decks but they just don't hit the right spot for me. I'm just looking for a deck that seperates the Onyomi and Kunyomi onto different cards, but I can't find anything like that and the closest thing is Core2k/6k.

>>118069732
Never mind that.
I'm not going to give up. I'll learn this shit.

>>118069794
1) Find deck
2a) Don't find deck, do nothing
2b) Don't find deck, make it yourself
2c) Don't find deck, do something else instead

>>118069703
Has anyone here got anki stats of a few years they could share? Just curious what stats anons have after many years?

>>118069979
Gonna do 2b). The Joyo Kanji should be good enough, right?

>>118069794
If you're doing RTK, you don't learn readings.
There are different opinions about and against RTK, but pretty much everybody agrees actually learning readings if you're going through kanji is not a good idea.
You either learn the words with readins right away through RTK, or you go through kanji with only approximate keywords as your guide, commit them to memory until both the stories and the keywords fall off to make way for pure concepts expressed by the word, and learn reading on the fly while... reading, pretty much. Or maybe going through Core2k on a turbo-pace you got because you already know the kanji, I dunno, I'm not sure about that at the moment. Reading seems like a method that would work better to me, because most manga uses furigana anyway, many VNs use voice acting, and I have a good digital dictionary + Interactive Text Hooker, but I'm not really sure how well it would work, 'cause I didn't try it.
Bottom line is, you don't learn readings. Why? Because there's lots of the words that are exceptions and a few words that have just too much readings to remember. I don't know, maybe you might be able to learn something that away, but pretty much everybody seems to think it's inefficient; I never tried, but its inefficiency makes sense to me.
If you want to learn readings right away, do Core. If you want to do kanji, drop the readings, they will just confuse you. That's my advice.

>>118069910
that's the spirit anon, がんばれ

>>118070202
*words with readings right away through Core2k

>>118070202
Nah, I'm going to do this shit.

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>>118069910
That's right.
Don't let her win.

>>118069110
>NIP NONG CHING CHONG LESSONS
kek

>>118070343
I want to skull fuck dekinai and wipe that smug look off her face

>>118070404
Better use the time to learn Japanese; it will hurt her a lot more.

>>118069449
They do and yet they don't. If learning one simple meaning as a mnemonic helps you learn 50% of the words more easily that a given kanji is used in, then you should do it.

I how to write a solid 5 words or so in Chinese simply because kanji do (somewhat) have meaning. You can probably guess what these mean.

女
男
人
女人
男人

>>118070404
she will be laughing the entire time as every second you spend doing it will be a second you failed to spend on learning jap

>>118070581
>I how to ...
I know how to ...

Apparently I don't know how to type.

>>118070404
Where is she from actually?

>>118070644
I don't even remember. I think it was some stupid banner that said "You can't learn Japanese without our help".
/a/ ran away with the phrase, and now she's a lot more powerful than she was ever supposed to be.
4chan has just created a demon. And DJT is at fault.
...
No, I'm not talking about Slenderman.

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>>118070743
... Now just look what I've found while looking for the original website.
Is it what I was looking for?
http://www.bukuclick.com/2012/02/japanese-language_20.html?m=0

>>118070202
You still have to learn all those readings when you learn them through core, though.

Knowing the meanings of kanji on their own would be completely useless to me, since the readings always take me longer to learn. I would much rather learn the meaning and 1 or 2 readings of 1000 kanji than the just the meanings of 2500.

>>118071019
Huh, apparently it was "You can't learn Japanese alone".
Well, then it makes perfect sense she hates DJT. We try to prove her wrong daily!
>captcha: rutscum was
Was what?

Didn't realize how much the reading packs were helping until I got to volume 3 of yotsuba, no wonder I was finding it so easy

Some websites don't state the Kunyomi translations for Kanji while websites like KD do, does it matter that much?

>>118071048
They're not supposed to be "meanings" as much as figurative "hooks" for your mind to use to remember words, like >>118069176 says.
RTK pretty much works by dividing up learning what the kanji look like and how to write them, and readings with meanings, where readings have to be learnt from scratch, and meanings are learnt in 1% the time needed usually. For example, the first word in the example is "tea" and the second is "colour", and it is really easy to get "light-brown" from a "tea colour". Hell, most of the time the tea is more brown than black I think (also kinda close to red, but it won't cause much confusion, I think).
Well, except for the meanings of isolated kanji, but these are in the minority.
Though I don't know, maybe your method will work too. I just really doubt it. The readins system is just riddled with exceptions. Not a good idea.
If you're still interested, I will also notice that RTK2 teaches exactly reading. I didn't use, but you might want to look into it, and if it's gonna be any help.
Oh, also, the order of kanji in RTK is not utility-based, but rather the one in which is is the easiest to remember them one after another. So, the payoff from it doesn't come until you've a large chunk into the book. The good things about Core is that it pays off right.
There are also some Jouyou kanji which aren't actually used anymore, but they are so rare that they don't matter and you might as well just learn everything right away.

>>118071076
>You can't learn Japanese alone
You can't. Do you really think you're learning alone?

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>>118071076
>We try to prove her wrong daily!
But we are not alone anon
we have each other

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>>118069110
Improved version coming through.

>>118072159
>>118072258
... A fair point.
Well, you could technically interpret alone as "without a teacher"...
Also, I was learning it completely alone for about 2 years. I hardly have done anything except the kana, the very beginning of Tae Kim and the very beginning of vocabulary grinding.
It was pretty much considering the resources I had, in retrospect, but I learned about 2 times more in these 4 months alone, I think.

>>118072618
Why are your い’ｓ so small?

>>118072618
>Romanji

>>118071363
RTK2 teaches the readings associated to the radicals and their position. It sounds useful but it seems the method Heisig used is incredibly counterintuitive, not to mention it won't take into account the countless reading exceptions there are. Not even Koohii likes the second book.
You get a feel for those patterns naturally when you learn vocabulary, kanji similar enough in form are often read the same way.

>>118072737
Should it be bigger?
I was thinking it should be small since it's just two lines that resemble the english i.

>>118073196
All kana should be the same size.

>>118073196
It should be the same size as all the other kana you fuck

The english i is still the same size as all the other letters

What's wrong with you

>>118073253
Just correct him and be done with it like a normal person. No need to get flustered.

>>118073253
Thanks for telling me, but fuck you dude.
"i" and "h" or "t or "l" aren't the same size. It's like comparing dicks.

>>118073624
Japanese and English are two different languages, the rules of English won't apply to Japanese.

>>118073253
>>118073624
Just be sure your きい doesn't accidentally look like a　ぎ

>>118073707
I know. It just seemed weird to make them bigger but whatever, I'll keep it in mind from now on.

>>118073856
Yeah thanks.

>>118074047
>>118073856
Oh and does my き look fine? I'm not sure if it should be 4 strokes or 3 with a closed c at the end of it.

I fucked up and didn't do reps for 2 days. I ended up with 500 review cards. After I did 250 of those 500 reps legit, I just spammed "good" to get it over with. My motivation still hasn't recovered after two weeks. I have been doing reps, but I can't find the motivation to read/otherwise expose myself to nip media. Overall, I'm feeling kind of burned out. How do I into motivation?

Also, what's the deal with this new captcha thing? It broke my 4chan extension.

>>118074195

It's three strokes. The loop should be one continuous motion. Something about writing with old calligraphy brushes, you'd raise it to make a thin portion through there which doesn't work with pen and pencil.

As for correctness. Neither are incorrect though sticklers will want the gap. My Japanese teacher didn't care which one we did.

So I'm a newfag who knows hiragana and katakana and but I'm stuck with where to go next. Genki doesn't seem to use any Kanji but 'Japanese the manga way' does. Whats the best way to learn grammar and Kanji at the same time?

>>118066052
> take N2 test
> audio part
> pretty difficult
It wasn't easy that's for sure. The last question (3-1, 3-2) was horrible for me. My neighbors all had different answers for this one, which was funny in a way.

>>118074738
Thanks. I'll try to write the other one from now on.

>have to disable 4chanX every time I want to post
This is horrible.

>>118074929

Genki start introducing kanji in Chapter 3. If you have the workbook the first 15 kanji are on page 129.

2000 reps down. 1000 more to go.

Can someone tell me why　京　is the last word of いろは歌?

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Why does she end every sentence in なのです? Is she supposed to sound like a know-it-all?

>>118075886

g-ganbatte anon-kun

>>118076135
Because it's moe

>>118074929
Use tae kim if you can, its the best and quickest, if not then japanese the manga way

I tried tae kim and thought it was confusing, then read through the manga way and later went back to tae kim only to realize it was suddenly a lot easier to follow due to manga way introducing me to a bunch of shit, so i started using that instead

After you've got basic grammar down download the core 2k/6k optimized deck for anki, change the card layout to the one in the guide and start using that every day, making sure to still continue studying grammar

When you start getting good at essential grammar read yotsuba

How do you guys practice writing kanji? I've been trying practice sheets, but all the ones I've found include a bunch of kanji on one page, but not enough tracing and blank squares in the grid It's frustrating only wanting to practice a few kanji but having to print out a bunch of them that I'm not learning yet. It's such a waste of ink.

>>118078308
Why do you want to write kanji? I used to but then I realized it's useless other than for helping recognition, and pretty much fucktuples the amount of time you spend studying

>>118075078
What was the answer for the marathon runner guy?
2 (精神力 something) or 4 (友達)?

>>118078508
So I can learn stroke order. But if there is a better way, I am open to it.

>>118078308
118078308
>tracing

Just buy grid paper and write them out free hand.

>>118078551
>精神力
I put this one if I remember correctly.

>>118078625
Practice writing radicals, that way you'll know the stroke order for 90% of all the kanji you'll come across

There are many ways to do so, a lot of people say RTK but I never really liked that so whatever, just google kanji radicals and take a look at them

>>118078308
Personally I use a tablet when I'm drawing kanji to memorize them.

>>118078551
Oh by the way, which answer did you chose for that vocab question at the beginning:
改訂 or 訂正?

>>118079300

What was the actual question?

what happened to 4chan x

>>118068121
It's just a matter of fact that the definition of "fluency" includes "able to write".
>>118079820
Moot integrated it's features into the main site like a year ago, so there's no use for it now.

>>118079567
I don't remember sorry, it was related to text modification and the other two choices were dumb as hell.

>>118078308
Palm of your hand, alternatively some regular lined paper. Usually I only write something out repetitively when it's a leech. Eventually you get a feel for stroke order and only need to remember exceptions so practicing it becomes mostly unnecessary.

>>118079951
I can't get disable the native extension to uncheck

>>118080107
Why would you want to?

>>118079951
moot's auto scroll is pure balls.

>>118079951
Some of its features.

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>>118080165
I want to uncheck it so I can use the features but everytime I click save settings it goes back to being checked

>>118069110
Why are you samefagging your post, faggot?

>>118079820

The shitty new captcha broke it, just update it.

test

>>118080359
How the fuck are you going to update when they haven't released an update yet?

I'd rather type out a captcha than have to reach for my house every time I want to post.

Fuck this shit.

>>118069732
>>118069910
As someone who used Nama Sensei - more important than his videos are that you start up Anki ASAP. He's not gonna teach you all of Japanese and you're gonna need a solid source of vocab.

>>118080434
>How the fuck are you going to update when they haven't released an update yet?

By downloading the update that they released because they have released an update.

>>118078652
My characters always come out looking like absolute shit when writing free hand. That's why I want to trace first so I can get a feel for the shape and the subtle flairs/curves. Maybe I'll just print out an image of the character and then place another sheet over it for tracing.

>>118078703
I can just use the dictionary I'm using since it shows all the radicals for any given kanji. Thank you for the tip, it's much more efficient than memorizing individual kanji stroke order.

>>118078824
I've seen a few apps for that but wasn't sure if they would help my characters look any less shitty. But I suppose if all I am trying to learn is stroke order than a touchscreen will do ok. I can just download it to my phone since I don't have a tablet.

Just started with the guide.
Had always postponed my learning of japanese but since I have so much time now I'll give it ago.
Kanjis are still intimidating. How many kanjis are needed to be able to read stuff properly?

>>118080522
You can "read" at any time. As for kanji, you only need about 2000-ish to comfortably read it *with the occasional kanji look up.* In which case, learning 5-6 a day will get you to your goal in a year.

Really though you should be learning kanji thru vocabulary which makes them not intimidating. And waiting a year to wait isn't good.

>>118080359
thanks

>>118080088
>leech

What do you mean?

>>118080485
>My characters always come out looking like absolute shit when writing free hand.

That's because you're a beginner. You weren't printing perfect A's in kindergarten. Those subtle curves and flares don't really matter much as long as it's legible. Imo, I don't think you should be aiming for perfect autistic handwriting, especially when the Japanese have the shittiest handwriting I've seen to date.

>>118080624
Words that leech your time, as in, no matter how many times you try to memorize it, you always forget it.

>>118080684
To be specific, a leech is (by default) a word you fail 12 times.

>>118080610
How many Kanjis do you know, anon?

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>constantly hear bitching about kanji
>never hear bitching about counters

>>118080766
1,500 according to my anki stats.

Before anyone says, "ah but once you grow up you'll need 5,000 kanji" or some such, I want to focus on that I said "occasional kanji look up".

>>118080766
>knowing kanji

Ask yourself what constitutes 'knowing' kanji, anon.

>>118080801
1) Is it a kanji that comes after a number?
2) Does the meaning of the kanji make sense as a nearby object?
3) Either way, ignoring it is fine.
No counters in English m8.

>>118080801

It's just another piece of vocab.

>>118080634
Well, I'm not trying to make it look like calligraphy. I just feel that tracing it a few times before writing it out free hand another few times will help speed up the process.

>>118080684
>>118080708
Ok, I understand.

>>118080841
Nice. How long have you been practicing?

>>118080933
>No counters in English m8.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/counter

It's there. You just aren't aware of it.

>>118080933
Ignoring it isn't fine. They get extremely specific and yet using the more general counters when a specific one exists is incorrect.

What makes them annoying is that for just about every counter, there is pure memorization of required for any exceptions in readings from numbers 1-10.

Do you want to be like Davido-kun who is 21 numbers old?

>>118081175
I dunno, I'd be doing a disservice to give you a straight up time frame. I did core2k/6k for 7 months and learned 1k kanji because I was going so slow. Then I manned up and started focusing on new kanji, and learned 500-ish in a SINGLE month. It all depends on your mindset and approach.

>>118081228
Davido-kun had the great misfortune in that he was forced to produce. I will not have that problem.

Also, isn't the counter for age 歳? How do you mess THAT one up, of all things?

>>118081176
>Although rare and optional in English
A lot of them, or rather, the one I saw is just bullshit I don't even know. 20 head of cattle? Yeah, I have no fuckin' clue that "head" is a counter, I'm just gonna think of it as "20 cattle" even in English. So thanks for confirming my method as universally solid.

>>118081298
Well, if he was 21, he would have had to have said にいっさい instead of what would immediately come to mind, even with the counter -> にいちさい

I bet the latter would be comparable to saying something like "I'm two-one years old" in english.

>>118081370
Hey, stupid, I'm just letting you know that they DO exist.

Saying that there are no counters is wrong, even if they aren't used often.

By the way, shit like: pieces, years, etc can be called counters.

>>118081228
who is davido-kun

>>118081370
Being ignorant doesn't make you right.

>>118081521
Your argument/post has no reason to exist, then. Yeah, our language has unused and rare features! Wow, so neat.

>>118081566
google it

>>118081496
>にいっさい
Is that what you meant to type?

>>118081496
I thought 21 was にじゅういちさい>>118081607

>>118081665
うん、そうだと思う

>>118081750
He's speaking from a casual, real-life speech perspective.

>>118081750
>>118081763

It's にじゅういっさ

>>118081829
。。い

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>>118081604
If someone posts something blatantly wrong, you fucking bet I'm going to correct them.

皆大好きだよ

>>118081890
In communication, ideas are often simplified. When speaking about English, I don't have to clarify "In contemporary, used English, counters don't have a heavy presence, if they're present at all". What you did wasn't correct someone who was wrong - you were autistic about "absolute correctness" instead of having a genuine conversation. tl;dr don't be an autist, it's annoying.

>>118081783
so the 10s can be omitted in casual speech in person because you are clearly in your 20s?

>>118082042
I dunno. Keep your ears pealed and follow your real life experiences. Already we have a conflicting source >>118081829

>>118081982
>instead of having a genuine conversation.

I was under the impression, I was having a "genuine conversation".

This shit obviously sin't going anywhere, o it's best to drop it.

Is it just me or does 亜 not have an entry in Rikai's kanji dictionary?

>>118081894
Slut.

>>118081604
>Yeah, our language has unused and rare features
I'd love to see someone cook without counters.

>>118082844
I do. Stick a pack of ramen in a bowl of water, microwave for one minute.

Also, I don't think measurements (e.g. "pinch of salt) are counters.

>>118082844
I wouldn't call units of measurement counters, because they are not quantized in the same way.

However, you don't want to say "give me 3 papers" when you mean "give me 3 pieces of paper"

>>118082417
Ｓｈｏｗｓ　ｕｐ　ｏｎ　ｍｙ　ｅｎｄ

>>118082935
The slang when I was in school was, "gimme three sheets dawg".

>>118081604

Language is a means by which people communicate clearly.

If a particular manner of speaking would just leave everyone confused, it's debatable that it can even be called a functional part of the language.

>muh dictionary
>muh grammar guide

Chronicles, not authority figures.

If your objective is to effectively communicate, you study grammar structure until it's intuitive, and then you throw the structure out in favor of the intuition.


>muh language "degradation"

You should hate modern day English, then, considering that it looks nothing like the English of 500 years ago.

Change is a natural part of language evolution, and there's no changing it.

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>>118083309

>>118074696
Halp

>>118083381
>>118074696
You don't need motivation to do reps. Just do them. The only obstacle between you and Japanese is doing your reps; so you do them. It's not something you need to motivate yourself for- it's just something you do. It's a lifestyle.

あの……群島、日本です。どうか、よろしくお願い致します……

>>118074696
I fucked up and didn't do reps for 2 years already. It's bad because I can't read shit with 700 kanji.
My extension isn't broken because I have a pass.

>>118083493
あの・・・「・・・」ってを使ってください

>>118083550
What the heck have you been doing for two years? Burn your old deck, make a new one devoted to kanji. I can give you a starter list to mine from.

>>118083584
めんごめんご

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>>118083664
>sorry (not very sincere)

>>118083369
Thanks, shitposter.

>>118083493
そのつまらないゲームよく飽きないな
ゲーム性最悪なのにいままでやめないということはファストフード関係の仕事には才能がありそう

>>118083703
>Rikasama

>>118083784
>sama
>implying furryfox

>>118083784
I actually use Rikaikun.

>>118083584
We've been over this recently: 「…」 not 「・・・」

>>118083835
If you've been over it you should realize that … displays incorrectly on non-japanese computers, and ・・・ looks more like what it should look like.

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>>118083835
People on lang8 I talked with used ・・・. Battler-kun uses it. Also >>118083869

>>118083749
もう一年くらいやってるよ
大体飽きたけど金を使ったから止めたくないね
イベントも楽しいし

>>118083936
何のために金出したの？結婚？

>>118083886
It's … in that pic. That's what it looks like in Japanese fonts.

>>118084011
>you should realize that … displays incorrectly on non-japanese computers, and ・・・ looks more like what it should look like.

>>118084070
Use the right character and people who are concerned about what it looks like can use a Japanese font.

Anyway, at the very least, don't correct someone for using …

>>118084000
結婚と母港拡張枠
お風呂の拡張枠も買った

>>118084226
You're taking what was meant as a lighthearted post pretty seriously.

>>118084290
Christ man, this is DJT not Daily Chinese thread.

Holy shit what's with the new captcha?

I found the way to learn Japanese
Never give up and always do something Japanese

>>118084532
けっこんとぼこうかくちょう
おふろのかくちょうもかった

>>118084713
ほんとにありがとうございます

any download links for elementary grade mathematics books in japanese?

test

>>118084767
Sorry, I only have download links for elementary grade girls' pictures.

Fuck you, moot.

>>118084713
Kanji makes this easier to read. I don't get why people like reading in kana and avoiding kanji. It's also hard to distinguish which is the particle and which is not. It's just stupid.

>>118085110
I didn't say it wasn't.

>>118085110
>I don't get why people like reading in kana
They don't.

>>118084928
>Hindi ako isang robot
Why can't m00t make captcha into kanji or kana. Bots can't into kanji or kana. I wish we can choose captcha style posting.

>>118085280
Buy a 4chan pass today. Oy vey!

>>118085348
How did that little cat turn into a fucking stupid kike.

>>118085404
I actually have a pass and it's pretty great, but offtopic shitposting.

>>118085404
He grew up

>>118085461
>buying a pass
How is that going to protect your anonymity?

>>118085969
I'm not posting CP, so I don't give a fuck.

(Not that guy, by the way.)

>>118085969
Do you really think google doesn't already know everything about you? You're wrong.

>>118085969
>what is VPN
>what is fake names
>what is fake pictures
>living in the US
Also Google doesn't own 1/3 of the internet so I don't give a fuck.

>>118086298
Ultimately it's the sad fact of "who cares if they know who I am"? I'm a NEET who does nothing with his live except learn Japanese. Perhaps the government will force a Rising Sun patch upon me to wear at all times, but really, there's nothing significant about me remaining anonymous.

>>118086388
Plebs gon pleb

>>118086298
>Also Google doesn't own 1/3 of the internet
>implying

Remembering the Kanji

>>118086939
>300 angry shitposts later...

>>118087195
I think everyone's too upset about captcha to do that right now.

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So What's everyone reading tonight?

>>118087820
Flyable Heart; To Love Ru. Isn't going so well.

I've got a quick question about a line in FF VII. I'm playing the game for fun and practice. It's surprisingly not too hard outside of some slurring and Kansai-ben. Anyway, if anyone here has played the game you may remember the part at the beginning of disc 2 where Cloud and Elena meet in Icicle Inn. This was right after Tseng got fucked up in the Temple of the Ancients. In the English version Elena says:

> But you really got guts doin' my boss in like that!
In the Japanese version it's
>よくも私のボスをやってくれたわね！

I've heard that "doing in" is a mistranslation and that the PC version changed it to something like "messing up my boss". When I looked やって up I found that やる can mean "to do someone in" so I can see how the translators translated it the way they did initially. I'm not sure how it can be seen any other way.

Then again, やってくれ can mean "to have been doing something" so can やってくれた possibly mean "to have done"? As in "How dare you have done that to my boss"?

Does anyone know if there are any Japanese MUDs?

File: 1418017430009.jpg (39KB, 998x720px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 998x720px

LIVE FOR JAPANESE OR DIE FOR NOTHING

IT'S YOUR CALL

I can't seem to sync anki on mobile and on desktop. It says it's offline?

I'm a robot.

>>118089015
先の方

>>118089051
Is your phone connected to the internet?