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Daily Japanese Thread #913

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Thread replies: 543
Thread images: 49

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Guide (Start here): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5C7fCe07CDzYalZYZObzxv_fhw7RUNsLHiMAY-t7FA

DJT Reading List (Add what you read here):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkEYXMc9vKmrPFwVUrKdzT9UgDQV6JS0V7XhYuTCgto/edit?usp=sharing

Resources: http://pastebin.com/RTdXaGFC (mobile devices: http://pastebin.com/vsrmzgNd)

Anki Startup Guide: http://pastebin.com/dDGCTkSC

Big manga list doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ltt5C88tgTyk5oFw5q8Iv9jVhNi6fyZomankoXdhlFssvHFwE

Previous thread: https://archive.moe/a/thread/118007901
>>
Oh for fucks sake

>>118062513
>>
Anyone having problems with sound in Anki? What program is used for audio to work?
>>
>>118062571
mplayer
>>
>>118062644
thanks
>>
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>>118062138
>Do you guys still forget shit? I'm only two days into Kanji/Vocab, but I still feel really bad about forgetting shit.
Take some amphetamines.
>>
>>118062532
both threads are wrong ffs
>>
>>118062532
This is maybe the best reason why the OP picture should not be changed all the time
>>
>>118062138
Forgetting is normal and fine; remembering is easier than learner. Sometimes I forget basic shit. Such is life.
>>
>>118062755
what's wrong with them?
>>
>>118062816
i though previous thread link was wrong. got fucked up on copy pasting, my bad sorry.
>>
Reviews first or new cards first? What do you think?
>>
>>118062924
New cards as a reward for reviews
>>
I'm still confused of へ and に.
家へ帰りました
家に帰りました

Which means "I went home." Are both sentences correct?
>>
>>118063088
DOJG, dude. Otherwise, don't stress too much about particles like that.
>>
>>118063088
Towards/to

Basically
>>
>>118062796
This is why writing is the hardest part of Japanese language because you have to memorize the stroke. Reading is probably the easiest as long as you know the words.
>>
>>118063186
>because you have to memorize the stroke

Does anyone actually do this?

Stroke order follows a general pattern; http://www.tofugu.com/guides/guess-kanji-stroke-order/
>>
>>118063101
What the hell is DOJG? Sorry, newfag here.
>>
>>118063186
Mmm, not quite? Stroke order isn't so tough. Radicals all have the same stroke order and they're universally present in Kanji. The tough part is remembering exactly what radicals were where in a kanji.
>>118063223
Dictionary of Japanese Grammar.
>>
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>>118063221
So is /pol/ going to actually try to "strike back" now?
>>
Is beta jisho not returning search results for anyone else?
>>
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>>118063212
Are you fucking serious?
>>
>http://www.kasi-time.com/item-66198.html
>だからそう ひとつずつ
>ゆっくりと手をつないでいくの

Is 手をつないでいく similar to 持っていく in meaning and that they're slowly walking hand-in-hand in the lyrics?
>>
Nice to see that shit never changes here. Would not be /DJT/ if we did not have incompetent OPs.
>>
>>118063383
I don't know what you're getting angry about, your image expresses exactly what the link I posted says.
>>
>>118063469
This OP is perfectly fine. Quit your bitchin'.
>>
>>118063469
It's the most boring time of the day. All the normalfags are at work and the others are watching anime and shit.
>>
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>>
Lost all my links to Japanese media sites and streams. Can anyone share?
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>>118063680
There are some in the guide
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>>118063495
>Horizontal Goes First
That's purely wrong.
>>
>>118063386
Yee
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>>118063633
>4chan
>work
does not compute
>>
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>need to look up word
>Jisho is down
>completely fucked by this
>>
>>118062724
Nah, it's because he's only two days in.
It will pass with time. It's normal to forget when only two days have passed.
>>
>>118063386
持っていく is "go somewhere while carrying something. Like "take something and go with it somewhere".

手をつないでいく might be "going somewhere while holding hands", but the -ていく can also indicate that it'll be happening in the future, which is what I think it means in your case.

Because you have ひとつずつ (one by one) and 手をつないでいくの... the meaning will be "one by one people will start holding hands". Or like "more and more people will hold hands as time goes on" etc.

By the way -てくる can be used to indicate that something has happened. Like 私の病気は悪化してきた。 - "My illness has gotten worse worse".

Anyway, another reason why I think your case is the "will be happening in the future" thing is because the いく is not written using kanji.
>>
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>>118063755
>>
それでも…私は…そなたに惚れても良いか?
>>
>>118063845
いえ、いけない
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>>118063212
>tofugu
>>
>>118063088
へ = Direction
に = Location/Target

When in doubt, use に
>>
>>118063900
Yeah, the guy's a faggot, but that's one actually good article of his.
>>
>>118063845
Still mad.
>>
>>118063801
he probably just meant that they're jerking off
>>
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What's the first kanji in this? I'm getting fucked on radical searches and can't find it. This shouldn't be happening, I'm so deep into this shit ;_;
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>>118063806
This might be useful.
>>
>>118063806
tangorin
>>
>>118064049
It actually is pretty helpful, I always mixed up お尻 and ふともも.
>>
>>118063841
What. I write 木 with parallel first then horizontal.
>>
>>118064087
Tangorin doesn't have the nifty ?? feature. e.g. "?陽" to find results like 太陽.

I was using it to find the kanji in >>118063993 but that didn't work either.
>>
>>118064049
I'm at fucking work!! Spoiler that kind of shit next time man.
>>
>>118063383
It's an exception.
Exceptions are pretty rare, overall. To be reasonably sure you haven't met one, look up the stroke order for all the radicals/kanji which don't visibly consist from other radicals or the readicals/kanji which you haven't seen written yet when you meet them; to be really, 99% sure, check out anything that seems funny or kinda confusing to you, if you're sure you know how to write this one, you most likely do know it, and if you aren't sure (i.e., it breaks some patterns), it mostly likely is still written in the most boring and consistent way possible, but when you've seen it written one time, the "exception" usually works the same in every other kanji too.
There are a few exceptions even from these rules (e.g., left and right), but they're pretty rare, at least from those kanji I've studied the stroke order of, i.e. about half of Jouyou.
I'm going through RTK, so it could be that the pattern just utterly breaks closer to the end, but I really doubt it.
>>
>>118064145
>?陽
pretty sure you can just do *陽
>>
>>118064213
Those behave differently. ? is more forceful than * if I recall.
>>
>>118063221
But anon, that's exactly why I want to marry him.
>>
>>118062510
I'll be on the country side next week and I can only bring camera and my DS for entertainment. Do you guys approve of My Japanese Coach DS? I'm not so advanced yet but I can make sentences like 彼女は私に指輪呉れて貰った。
>>
>>118064360
>Do you guys approve of My Japanese Coach DS
Er... no. It might be marginally better than nothing, but I doubt it. It might be better to print a bunch of kanji detailed sheets from RTK or somesuch and bring them with you.
>>
>>118064049
i wanna lick that ass
>>
>>118064469
you can't it's just a drawing
>>
>>118063841
He probably associated it with 日 or 月 or 田 which are written beginning with vertical, which they do because the second stroke goes both horizontal and vertical, as the first stroke in 母 goes. When it doesn't, the horizontal stroke is usually the first, though.
Overall, he's right, and I was confused about the same thing for a really long time. This kanji is just an exception, overall.
>>
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>>118063993
Since no one responded, I guess no one knows. Well, I skipped it and saw the kanji again. Turns out it's - 吸い付く. Not sure why it's drawn like that. Oh well!
>>
>>118064360
>彼女は私に指輪呉れて貰った。
Just play a Japanese version of Pokemon (any will do) and you'll learn 100x more than My Japanese Coach.
>>
>>118064584
I imagine playing a Japanese game at a low level with no access to a dictionary would be pretty hellish. The DS dictionary would take too much effort to constantly switch too, I imagine.
>>
>>118064499
i can print it and lick if i want to so fuck you.
>>
>>118064609
Then I advise him to bring a Japanese pocket dictionary.
>>
>>118064529
I tried to look it up.
I would've never guessed, even though it does kinda look like it.
It doesn't help that just 口 is used too much to be useful (my dictionary has about 1000 kanji with it) and the second part looks really much like 反 but is not this radical.
So, I guess, thanks for telling me 及 can be written this way? Custom fonts are really the worst. No wonder Japan has so few of them.
>>
One thing that's more confusing about kanji is the combination of on/kun and it's meaning.
For example: 寝取られ
寝 means sleep
取 means take
but 寝取られ means "stealing loved ones from a person" so it should have a different kanji. It's killing me.
>>
>>118064919
You're welcome; it is the 及 radical. I only realized it 'cuz 吸 was present in both the Jisho searches. Indeed, fuck custom fonts. I'm sure someone very familiar with Japanese is gonna pop in and say that's a common style, though.
>>
>>118065064
寝 actually means the act of lying down (in order to sleep), so it makes sense.
>>
>>118065064
I don't see how it's confusing.

Also, 寝る means "go to sleep". 眠る means "to sleep".

So when you... never mind, see >>118065114
>>
>>118065064
That term is fairly straightforward. Maybe it's that you're thinking in terms of a fairly loose English translation?
>>
>>118065114
>>118065140
ohhh
>>
>>118063806
>>need to look up word
>>Jisho is down
>>completely fucked by this

Not owning a real japanese/kanji dictionary. shig dog diggity.

Seriously printed media exist also cant you download J-DICT and use it offline?
>>
>>118065208
I guess comparing kanji to an English translation is not good. So if 寝 means 'the act of lying down' and 取 is 'to take' (probably take the hymen etc) that makes sense I guess.
>>
>>118065259
zkanji is pretty good
>>
>>118065259
There's pretty much no reason to ever use a physical dictionary if you have access EDICT.
>>
>>118065363
You probably shouldn't even try to make literal sense out of a idiomatic word; especially by using English.
>>
Are there any things like real kana that include diagraphs like きゃ? RK only seems to have diacritics (ぎ).
>>
>>118065408
I used to think the same, but then I realized I become too dependent on just looking things up so quickly that I stopped tying to memorize things. Now I only use physical because i know it takes more effort and is less efficient so I typically put more effort into remembering words I look up.
>>
Are there any fully voice acted VNs?
>>
>>118065866
I look up words via radical search and manual typing, not rikai or ITH or some such. I honestly don't see how looking down a huge list of words, trying to wrap my head around radical order / their kana order will help me too much.
>>
>>118065866
>that I stopped tying to memorize things
that's what anki is for
>>
>>118065903
>fully
There are VNs which have voices for the protagonist, but I don't think there are any that voices every single line of narration.
>>
>>118065903
If you mean the protagonist having a voice too, yes. Though the inner monologue is never voiced, as far as i know.
>>
Where can I get RtK 6th ed? I mean, I'm a poorfag and I could find only the 4th edition.
>>
>>118065977
You can't depend on anki to be your main source of vocabulary acquisition in the late-game.
>>
>looking at the guide
>"You may want to simply use the shared deck for Anki"
>There isn't a link to that in the resources list
What is this mysterious deck? I know there is a kanjidamage deck for anki, but I don't know how "Shared" comes in to play here.
>>
> take N2 test
> audio part
> pretty difficult
> suddenly this question about the sweets in the fridge
what the fuck?
>>
>>118066030

I din't say that. It's for reviewing vocabulary that you have already found while reading.
>>
>>118066030
this, I am very pro anki. However, I think it has taken me as far as it can already.

Also isn't that hanabira game fully voice acted?
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>>118066052
Was the N2 listening test at native speed or were they talking a bit slower?
>>
>>118065954
HKR is the best way to look up words imo.
>>
>>118066138
I would say it was native speed, although a bit more cleary pronounced than native people would do in casual situations.
>>
>>118066051
You don't want it; Core2k/6k is objectively superior.
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>>118066305
This, Core2k/6k makes learning individual Kanji practically useless.
>>
>>118066543
>This, Core2k/6k makes learning individual Kanji practically useless.

learning individual kanji is useless at that level.
>>
>>118066612
It's useless at any level if you use Core2k/6k
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>>118066543
it's hilarious watching you guys mix up kanji constantly because you don't even understand radicals
>>
>>118063212
>rare exceptions

>>
>>118066612
It's literally the first thing you start after learning kana. There is no point in learning core if you already know a lot of Kanji and associated words.
>>
>>118066645
nah once I finish 6k and my first vn I started focus a lot more on kanji and it really helped out. Then again I am also learning to write so your mileage may vary.
>>
>>118066702
There is no point in kanji is you don't know the words associated with them. What is the point of learning 章or 品 if you don't even know any words that use those kanji. Once you know the word 商品 you already learned both kanji. However, the reverse is not true, you can know both 商 and 品 individually as kanji but you might not know that both of them together make up a common word.

Wasn't this argument won ages ago? That is why no one does RTK or Kanji Damage.
>>
>>118066716
I haven't finished Core yet, but I started out using it alongside a KD deck. I felt like the KD deck was useless as most of the things I was learning with the KD deck I was learning about with the Core deck, but in a less convoluted manner.

>>118066684
My visual memory is pretty good, I just need a lot of practice and that's it.

If I feel like I'm missing something Kanji-wise I'll surely give it another go.
>>
I bet voiced kana came about from all the drunk businessmen coming home to their wives and slurring their words together.
>>
>>118066940
I made the mistake of doing kanji damage before getting grammar and vocab down. I wont say it was a wasted 3 months because I learned a lot about radicals and mnemonic devices but it is the inefficient route.

With Grammar and Vocab at the very least you will be able to understand spoken Japanese.

Individual kanji study is really more of a late game thing. You will natually pick up the 500-1000 most common kanji if you just spend more time learning the language.
>>
>>118066684
yeah, and the thing is, just learning to write kanji (with proper stroke order) all but guarantees you'll learn the patterns and radicals.

unfortunately there's this new "why learn to write, we have computers" thing going on these days. (it's similar to the "why learn arithmetic, we have calculators" mentality, keeping people retarded)
>>
>>118067257
I keep telling people there are easier ways to fapp to Chinese cartoons if that is all they want to learn japanese for.

If you are going to learn the language at least be able to read and write it.
>>
>>118067257
I think most people recognize that writing is helpful but it's arguably the least useful of all japanese language skills especially for the time required to learn it properly
>>
>>118067396
No extra time at all if you are already writing as a way of learning kanji. I don't get it, people doing 1000+ anki cards per 30 min by holding down enter really think that is practice? I set aside only 30 min to go over the new kanji I have learned in the past week. Once you know the stroke order you don't need weird nmumonics, once you learn to write all the radicals all kanji are pieces of cake to write. Only the new ones will give you problems.
>>
>>118067567
I don't have 1000+ cards and I don't hit down the enter key.. if you are trying to make a point don't use wild strawman assumptions
>>
>>118067617
I said people not "you", someone is awfully defensive. If that does not apply to you then why respond?
>>
>>118067396
If you can't write in a language you can't call yourself fluent or literate, period. Stop being a fucking child and accept the fact that being able to write in the target language is just as important as every other aspect of the language.

If an adult were able to read, speak, and comprehend spoken English, but they weren't able to write a sentence properly, I'd consider them borderline retarded.
>>
>>118066915
Knowing the kanji in a word you don't know makes it much easier to learn, which makes it easier to pick up new words you see while reading.

From core 2k to 10k there are ~1100 unique kanji, and 8000 words. It would be much faster to learn those kanji on their own, or with one word, and likely more beneficial, since you don't want to learn literally all of your vocabulary from anki.
>>
>>118067713
>getting mad because people learn different things than you
people have different goals and they don't care about you thinking they are fluent or not, you don't need to be autistic about it
>>
>>118067761
Fuck off.
>>
>>118067794
>you don't need to be autistic about it
Being unable to write in a language you can speak, read and comprehend the spoken language of is something people may consider a symptom of a mental defect such as Autism.
>>
>>118067794
>you don't need to be autistic about it
oh he does
>>
>>118067768
I did kanji before vocab and i disagree 100%. Knowing a kanji does not make it easier to learn a word.
>>
>>118067567
You still mess up what radicals go there though. I have a copybook with all the 常用漢字(25 fucking times each, you bitch). It was fun and my handwriting is pretty good now but I wouldn't say it's very educational.
>>
>>118067794
>a well rounded approach to learning a language is being autistic

There was a time here on /a/ when normalfags would be told to fuck off, instead now they are here in droves.
>>
>>118067881
it does but you're dumb
>>
>>118067924
getting mad because people have different goals than you is literally autistic
look up "theory of mind and autism"
>>
>>118067881
>Knowing a kanji does not make it easier to learn a word.
It does, and this is due to how the human brain handles language. You can say it doesn't all you like but the science contradicts this.
>>
>>118067713
>Stop being a fucking child and accept the fact that being able to write in the target language is just as important as every other aspect of the language

But for a lot of people here it obviously isn't, unless you're only concerned about being able to label yourself "literate".

It's quite likely that I will never in my life have any reason to write kanji. So clearly it is less important for me to be able to write kanji than any other aspect of the language.
>>
>>118067998
>getting mad
I'm not mad. Another aspect of Autism is the lack of ability to accurately perceive human emotion.
>>
So what I'm learning from this thread is that I don't need to learn Kanji individually but I do?
>>
>>118068047
>I'm not mad.
so fucking salty
>>
>>118067936
No it does not help you learn the spoken word or help to identify it in listening or speaking. All it will do is help you recognize a word when it is written. I will NOT help you learn to speak or identify the word when it is spoken.
>>
>>118068041
>But for a lot of people here it obviously isn't
You speak for a lot of people now do you?

>>118068060
Ate cottage cheese recently. A lot of sodium.
>>
>>118067713
>>118067794
Sad too see even after all this time, the DJT still has "definition of literacy" trolls/autists, and the djt still eats the bait. Feel free to search the archive, this topic has had thousands of posts dedicated to it.
>>
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>>118068047
>telling people to fuck off
>I'm not mad
>>
>>118068058
Do whatever you want. No one has proven one method to be more efficient than the other. Just choose whichever one seems less tedious to you. Don't be like the anon in the previous thread I think it was who had restarted RtK 10 times or whatever
>>
>>118068001
can you provide links to said scientific conclusion?
>>
>>118068101
>No it does not help you learn the spoken word or help to identify it in listening or speaking.

Yes it does. When you hear a word your brain makes several neurological connections to recall the concept.

>>118068126
>using an expletive means you must be angry
The fuck cunt?
>>
>>118068160
So I won't be missing out on anything if I don't learn Kanji individually?
>>
>>118068188
Can you show that it's more efficient to learn kanji in isolation and learn vocabulary afterwards then it is to learn both in conjunction with each other?
>>
>>118068265
>Can you show that it's more efficient to learn kanji in isolation and learn vocabulary afterwards then it is to learn both in conjunction with each other?

Why would I? That isn't the claim I'm making.
>>
>>118068305
What's the fucking point then
>>
>>118068250
You won't be able to write with a pen, you might mix up kanji, it will take a bit longer to learn words (but not "impossibly longer").
But you will probably be able to read and speak and listen just fine. With time.
>>
Today I learned that different people like different things and learn in different ways. Neat.
>>
>>118068345
That being able to write Japanese properly is a vital aspect of Japanese language competency, that and a lack of writing proficiency will form a bottleneck to your total language proficiency.
>>
>>118068369
>you might mix up kanji,
Conjecture
>it will take a bit longer to learn words (but not "impossibly longer")
Misleading. Doesn't account for the time it took to learn the kanji
>>
>>118068395
I only learned this one after reading the guide (which was pretty late into my studies, because I didn't know about DJT). Before I was convinced otherwise.
Maybe all these people didn't read the guide too?
>>
>>118068492
>Maybe all these people didn't read the guide too?
I'd wager a good 95% of the cunts who post here haven't even clicked on any of the links in the OP.
>>
>>118068456
>Conjecture
Why do I see it in threads all the time then? Do you think I personally write all these posts.
>Misleading
Yeah, you're right, I completely forgot that it could be misinterprented. I wanted to write about it, but it just slipped my mind in the process.
Mind you, RTK takes 2 months tops with a good schedule, but learning Core is probably quicker overall.
>>
>>118068369
Surely with enough practice I'll be able to differentiate Kanji, though? I guess I'll keep doing Kanji, I'm just scared I'll turn myself off from doing Japanese because of how pointless some of it is whilst I'm doing Core2k/6k.
>>
>>118068395
Have you considered that possibly those people are just under the impression that one way is better for them, when in fact another way would actually help them learn faster.

I've personally jumped around to 3 different learning methods and each time I felt like "this is definitely the best way". So of course now I have to accept I might be wrong a 3rd time
>>
>>118068740
And have you considered that they've also done the same, and came to the same conclusion, but with a different method?
>>
>>118068736
>Surely with enough practice I'll be able to differentiate Kanji, though?

If it were that simply things like the 日本漢字能力検定協会 wouldn't exist.
>>
>>118068265
It depends on what you mean by learning them in conjunction. Core takes 10,000 words to cover 2000 kanji. You could still learn those kanji through vocab but use fewer cards.

If it's more efficient to learn new words in context by reading, and if it's easier to learn new words when you already know their kanji, then it might be most efficient to use the least cards necessary to learn the kanji, and then get new words by reading.
>>
>>118068862
I don't think it's more efficient to learn new words by reading than by using Anki
>>
>>118068736
Well, yeah, with enough practice you will. Or if you go through the radicals and learn to differentiate them.
Also, the further you go, the harder it will be to stop. Because effort justification.
Mind you, I'm doing RTK on Anki, and I think it's the better method, because it doesn't bore me out of my mind and being able to write is neat and its flaws are overblown, I think, but just saying, the further you go, the less sensible it will seem to stop. Unless you're really only beginning, then you might do like 100 to get an understanding of the way kanji work.
Also, if you do it, do it quick. It is possible and it is preferrable to lazing around. RTK only pays off all the time waste on it, if you go in half a year, max. 2 months is a perfectly normal figure, by the way.
>>
>>118066021
You can use this with the 4th edition
http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/en/files/2012/12/RK1-Supplement.pdf
>>
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Sup /djt/.
Am I doing it right? Will I become one of you someday?
>>
>>118068989
That kind of depends what you mean by "learn". Anki is great for planting the seeds of familiarity for a great many words in a short amount of time, but does it help you learn them? Isn't that something you do by reading native material after you have succinctly seeded enough words to make a bit of a spongy bed for yourself which makes the fall into native material a little bit softer?

Semantics, though, I guess.
>>
>>118069110
That's a nice looking nip, mang. I'd say you're well and truly already one of us.
>>
>>118068250
Your question implies there's only 2 options, learn them or not.

There's a 3rd and it's actually very helpful. That is to use the meaning of kanji to drive how you think about the words. Doing it this way, you don't memorize their meanings you just gloss over them. Say you know お茶, and 色, and then you come across 茶色. If you simply glance at the meaning of the kanji you can then see a very convenient way to remember the kanji that appear in the word "light-brown".

If you start doing this you will notice tons of shortcuts like that which make memorizing the words a breeze.
It's so helpful to do it this way I can't even imagine how much more difficult of a time I would be having if I hadn't been doing this
>>
>>118069004
Is the RTK deck in the guide? I'm using the KD deck but it's boring just looking at them and learning how to say them. I am only a beginner so that's probably why I'm not a fan of Kanji since the ones I'm learning are more often than not in Core2k/6k.
>>
>>118069110
but meme arrows point the other way anon
>>
>>118069110
If you were doing it right then you wouldn't be one of us
>>
>>118069110
>not 愛
>>
>>118069122
Only for more complicated words, I'd say. But yes, to an extent. But reading is the end goal for most of us and something we will be doing anyway, so it's not like you choose Anki instead of reading. You choose Anki to facilitate reading
>>
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>>118069175
Thanks. I'll do my best.
>>
>>118069176
That's really the best way to go about it, I didn't even start doing it consciously, it just happened spontaneusly without me trying.
>>
>>118069176
I'm all for exploring options but everyone keeps telling me different things that I'm not sure what exactly to do. That's the problem I have with Japanese, there's so many ways to learn it that I'm not sure what's best for me.
>>
>>118069176
>That is to use the meaning of kanji to drive how you think about the words.
Kanji don't have inherit meaning.
>>
>>118069110
>tooilet topic where it is
kek

but it's nice you've got motivation, keep it up
>>
>>118069434
Just fucking commit to something. However inefficient Rtk or Anki might be relative each other, you're going to end up wasting more time if you don't choose one alternative now and just start actually studying
>>
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>>118069233
>>
>>118069434
>there's so many ways to learn it that I'm not sure what's best for me.
Pick one and use it till it stops working, then move onto something else.

You're not going to know what works for you until you've already spent a long time studying. There maybe be up to 10% of efficiency to be gained by methodology alone, but the rest comes down to actual time spent with the language.
>>
>>118069434
The only way you'll know is by trying something that sounds attractive, analyzing what works, and doesn't work, and adjusting from there. It's how we all came to our different methods, and it's the only road a self-learner has to find theirs.
>>
>>118069180
Dunno, I looked it up on the Anki site.
As a result I chose two decks: one that contains only kanji and meaning (keyword->kanji; the other way is probably more useful for recognition, because you might not remember the kanji immediately upon seeing it, but I didn't change it because this one forces me to learn them better and get creative with stories, and in 90% of cases I remember them right away anyway) and another one that has two top stories from Reviewing The Kanji site (because I was too lazy to register there, and most often two top stories are enough, and if they're not I think up my own story). I don't use the second deck for reviews because I don't want to be able to look up the story unless I have to, so I only use it for cross-referencing the stories through the browser.
Though my way is probably hella backwards. I just kinda rolled with it when I had no idea, and now I'm too lazy and it works good enough for me to change it.
>>
>>118069434
I'm approaching 3 years into Japanese now, anon. I have tried many different methods by now, and have settled on one that works. You just do something, whatever it is, then improve it by adding shit that might work, removing stuff that doesn't, and just putting in time while you try that shit out.
>>
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>>118069499
I started because of this guy's video. It seemed fun so I'll continue until I eventually give up like with everything else.
>>
>>118069703
I've used a few decks but they just don't hit the right spot for me. I'm just looking for a deck that seperates the Onyomi and Kunyomi onto different cards, but I can't find anything like that and the closest thing is Core2k/6k.
>>
>>118069732
Never mind that.
I'm not going to give up. I'll learn this shit.
>>
>>118069794
1) Find deck
2a) Don't find deck, do nothing
2b) Don't find deck, make it yourself
2c) Don't find deck, do something else instead
>>
>>118069703
Has anyone here got anki stats of a few years they could share? Just curious what stats anons have after many years?
>>
>>118069979
Gonna do 2b). The Joyo Kanji should be good enough, right?
>>
>>118069794
If you're doing RTK, you don't learn readings.
There are different opinions about and against RTK, but pretty much everybody agrees actually learning readings if you're going through kanji is not a good idea.
You either learn the words with readins right away through RTK, or you go through kanji with only approximate keywords as your guide, commit them to memory until both the stories and the keywords fall off to make way for pure concepts expressed by the word, and learn reading on the fly while... reading, pretty much. Or maybe going through Core2k on a turbo-pace you got because you already know the kanji, I dunno, I'm not sure about that at the moment. Reading seems like a method that would work better to me, because most manga uses furigana anyway, many VNs use voice acting, and I have a good digital dictionary + Interactive Text Hooker, but I'm not really sure how well it would work, 'cause I didn't try it.
Bottom line is, you don't learn readings. Why? Because there's lots of the words that are exceptions and a few words that have just too much readings to remember. I don't know, maybe you might be able to learn something that away, but pretty much everybody seems to think it's inefficient; I never tried, but its inefficiency makes sense to me.
If you want to learn readings right away, do Core. If you want to do kanji, drop the readings, they will just confuse you. That's my advice.
>>
>>118069910
that's the spirit anon, がんばれ
>>
>>118070202
*words with readings right away through Core2k
>>
>>118070202
Nah, I'm going to do this shit.
>>
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>>118069910
That's right.
Don't let her win.
>>
>>118069110
>NIP NONG CHING CHONG LESSONS
kek
>>
>>118070343
I want to skull fuck dekinai and wipe that smug look off her face
>>
>>118070404
Better use the time to learn Japanese; it will hurt her a lot more.
>>
>>118069449
They do and yet they don't. If learning one simple meaning as a mnemonic helps you learn 50% of the words more easily that a given kanji is used in, then you should do it.

I how to write a solid 5 words or so in Chinese simply because kanji do (somewhat) have meaning. You can probably guess what these mean.




女人
男人
>>
>>118070404
she will be laughing the entire time as every second you spend doing it will be a second you failed to spend on learning jap
>>
>>118070581
>I how to ...
I know how to ...

Apparently I don't know how to type.
>>
>>118070404
Where is she from actually?
>>
>>118070644
I don't even remember. I think it was some stupid banner that said "You can't learn Japanese without our help".
/a/ ran away with the phrase, and now she's a lot more powerful than she was ever supposed to be.
4chan has just created a demon. And DJT is at fault.
...
No, I'm not talking about Slenderman.
>>
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>>118070743
... Now just look what I've found while looking for the original website.
Is it what I was looking for?
http://www.bukuclick.com/2012/02/japanese-language_20.html?m=0
>>
>>118070202
You still have to learn all those readings when you learn them through core, though.

Knowing the meanings of kanji on their own would be completely useless to me, since the readings always take me longer to learn. I would much rather learn the meaning and 1 or 2 readings of 1000 kanji than the just the meanings of 2500.
>>
>>118071019
Huh, apparently it was "You can't learn Japanese alone".
Well, then it makes perfect sense she hates DJT. We try to prove her wrong daily!
>captcha: rutscum was
Was what?
>>
Didn't realize how much the reading packs were helping until I got to volume 3 of yotsuba, no wonder I was finding it so easy
>>
Some websites don't state the Kunyomi translations for Kanji while websites like KD do, does it matter that much?
>>
>>118071048
They're not supposed to be "meanings" as much as figurative "hooks" for your mind to use to remember words, like >>118069176 says.
RTK pretty much works by dividing up learning what the kanji look like and how to write them, and readings with meanings, where readings have to be learnt from scratch, and meanings are learnt in 1% the time needed usually. For example, the first word in the example is "tea" and the second is "colour", and it is really easy to get "light-brown" from a "tea colour". Hell, most of the time the tea is more brown than black I think (also kinda close to red, but it won't cause much confusion, I think).
Well, except for the meanings of isolated kanji, but these are in the minority.
Though I don't know, maybe your method will work too. I just really doubt it. The readins system is just riddled with exceptions. Not a good idea.
If you're still interested, I will also notice that RTK2 teaches exactly reading. I didn't use, but you might want to look into it, and if it's gonna be any help.
Oh, also, the order of kanji in RTK is not utility-based, but rather the one in which is is the easiest to remember them one after another. So, the payoff from it doesn't come until you've a large chunk into the book. The good things about Core is that it pays off right.
There are also some Jouyou kanji which aren't actually used anymore, but they are so rare that they don't matter and you might as well just learn everything right away.
>>
>>118071076
>You can't learn Japanese alone
You can't. Do you really think you're learning alone?
>>
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>>118071076
>We try to prove her wrong daily!
But we are not alone anon
we have each other
>>
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>>118069110
Improved version coming through.
>>
>>118072159
>>118072258
... A fair point.
Well, you could technically interpret alone as "without a teacher"...
Also, I was learning it completely alone for about 2 years. I hardly have done anything except the kana, the very beginning of Tae Kim and the very beginning of vocabulary grinding.
It was pretty much considering the resources I had, in retrospect, but I learned about 2 times more in these 4 months alone, I think.
>>
>>118072618
Why are your い’s so small?
>>
>>118072618
>Romanji
>>
>>118071363
RTK2 teaches the readings associated to the radicals and their position. It sounds useful but it seems the method Heisig used is incredibly counterintuitive, not to mention it won't take into account the countless reading exceptions there are. Not even Koohii likes the second book.
You get a feel for those patterns naturally when you learn vocabulary, kanji similar enough in form are often read the same way.
>>
>>118072737
Should it be bigger?
I was thinking it should be small since it's just two lines that resemble the english i.
>>
>>118073196
All kana should be the same size.
>>
>>118073196
It should be the same size as all the other kana you fuck

The english i is still the same size as all the other letters

What's wrong with you
>>
>>118073253
Just correct him and be done with it like a normal person. No need to get flustered.
>>
>>118073253
Thanks for telling me, but fuck you dude.
"i" and "h" or "t or "l" aren't the same size. It's like comparing dicks.
>>
>>118073624
Japanese and English are two different languages, the rules of English won't apply to Japanese.
>>
>>118073253
>>118073624
Just be sure your きい doesn't accidentally look like a ぎ
>>
>>118073707
I know. It just seemed weird to make them bigger but whatever, I'll keep it in mind from now on.

>>118073856
Yeah thanks.
>>
>>118074047
>>118073856
Oh and does my き look fine? I'm not sure if it should be 4 strokes or 3 with a closed c at the end of it.
>>
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>>
I fucked up and didn't do reps for 2 days. I ended up with 500 review cards. After I did 250 of those 500 reps legit, I just spammed "good" to get it over with. My motivation still hasn't recovered after two weeks. I have been doing reps, but I can't find the motivation to read/otherwise expose myself to nip media. Overall, I'm feeling kind of burned out. How do I into motivation?

Also, what's the deal with this new captcha thing? It broke my 4chan extension.
>>
>>118074195

It's three strokes. The loop should be one continuous motion. Something about writing with old calligraphy brushes, you'd raise it to make a thin portion through there which doesn't work with pen and pencil.

As for correctness. Neither are incorrect though sticklers will want the gap. My Japanese teacher didn't care which one we did.
>>
So I'm a newfag who knows hiragana and katakana and but I'm stuck with where to go next. Genki doesn't seem to use any Kanji but 'Japanese the manga way' does. Whats the best way to learn grammar and Kanji at the same time?
>>
>>118066052
> take N2 test
> audio part
> pretty difficult
It wasn't easy that's for sure. The last question (3-1, 3-2) was horrible for me. My neighbors all had different answers for this one, which was funny in a way.
>>
>>118074738
Thanks. I'll try to write the other one from now on.

>have to disable 4chanX every time I want to post
This is horrible.
>>
>>118074929

Genki start introducing kanji in Chapter 3. If you have the workbook the first 15 kanji are on page 129.
>>
2000 reps down. 1000 more to go.
>>
Can someone tell me why 京 is the last word of いろは歌?
>>
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Why does she end every sentence in なのです? Is she supposed to sound like a know-it-all?
>>
>>118075886

g-ganbatte anon-kun
>>
>>118076135
Because it's moe
>>
>>118074929
Use tae kim if you can, its the best and quickest, if not then japanese the manga way

I tried tae kim and thought it was confusing, then read through the manga way and later went back to tae kim only to realize it was suddenly a lot easier to follow due to manga way introducing me to a bunch of shit, so i started using that instead

After you've got basic grammar down download the core 2k/6k optimized deck for anki, change the card layout to the one in the guide and start using that every day, making sure to still continue studying grammar

When you start getting good at essential grammar read yotsuba
>>
How do you guys practice writing kanji? I've been trying practice sheets, but all the ones I've found include a bunch of kanji on one page, but not enough tracing and blank squares in the grid It's frustrating only wanting to practice a few kanji but having to print out a bunch of them that I'm not learning yet. It's such a waste of ink.
>>
>>118078308
Why do you want to write kanji? I used to but then I realized it's useless other than for helping recognition, and pretty much fucktuples the amount of time you spend studying
>>
>>118075078
What was the answer for the marathon runner guy?
2 (精神力 something) or 4 (友達)?
>>
>>118078508
So I can learn stroke order. But if there is a better way, I am open to it.
>>
>>118078308
118078308
>tracing

Just buy grid paper and write them out free hand.
>>
>>118078551
>精神力
I put this one if I remember correctly.
>>
>>118078625
Practice writing radicals, that way you'll know the stroke order for 90% of all the kanji you'll come across

There are many ways to do so, a lot of people say RTK but I never really liked that so whatever, just google kanji radicals and take a look at them
>>
>>118078308
Personally I use a tablet when I'm drawing kanji to memorize them.
>>
>>118078551
Oh by the way, which answer did you chose for that vocab question at the beginning:
改訂 or 訂正?
>>
>>118079300

What was the actual question?
>>
what happened to 4chan x
>>
>>118068121
It's just a matter of fact that the definition of "fluency" includes "able to write".
>>118079820
Moot integrated it's features into the main site like a year ago, so there's no use for it now.
>>
>>118079567
I don't remember sorry, it was related to text modification and the other two choices were dumb as hell.
>>
>>118078308
Palm of your hand, alternatively some regular lined paper. Usually I only write something out repetitively when it's a leech. Eventually you get a feel for stroke order and only need to remember exceptions so practicing it becomes mostly unnecessary.
>>
>>118079951
I can't get disable the native extension to uncheck
>>
>>118080107
Why would you want to?
>>
>>118079951
moot's auto scroll is pure balls.
>>
>>118079951
Some of its features.
>>
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>>118080165
I want to uncheck it so I can use the features but everytime I click save settings it goes back to being checked
>>
>>118069110
Why are you samefagging your post, faggot?
>>
>>118079820

The shitty new captcha broke it, just update it.
>>
test
>>
>>118080359
How the fuck are you going to update when they haven't released an update yet?

I'd rather type out a captcha than have to reach for my house every time I want to post.

Fuck this shit.
>>
>>118069732
>>118069910
As someone who used Nama Sensei - more important than his videos are that you start up Anki ASAP. He's not gonna teach you all of Japanese and you're gonna need a solid source of vocab.
>>
>>118080434
>How the fuck are you going to update when they haven't released an update yet?

By downloading the update that they released because they have released an update.
>>
>>118078652
My characters always come out looking like absolute shit when writing free hand. That's why I want to trace first so I can get a feel for the shape and the subtle flairs/curves. Maybe I'll just print out an image of the character and then place another sheet over it for tracing.

>>118078703
I can just use the dictionary I'm using since it shows all the radicals for any given kanji. Thank you for the tip, it's much more efficient than memorizing individual kanji stroke order.

>>118078824
I've seen a few apps for that but wasn't sure if they would help my characters look any less shitty. But I suppose if all I am trying to learn is stroke order than a touchscreen will do ok. I can just download it to my phone since I don't have a tablet.
>>
Just started with the guide.
Had always postponed my learning of japanese but since I have so much time now I'll give it ago.
Kanjis are still intimidating. How many kanjis are needed to be able to read stuff properly?
>>
>>118080522
You can "read" at any time. As for kanji, you only need about 2000-ish to comfortably read it *with the occasional kanji look up.* In which case, learning 5-6 a day will get you to your goal in a year.

Really though you should be learning kanji thru vocabulary which makes them not intimidating. And waiting a year to wait isn't good.
>>
>>118080359
thanks
>>
>>118080088
>leech

What do you mean?
>>
>>118080485
>My characters always come out looking like absolute shit when writing free hand.

That's because you're a beginner. You weren't printing perfect A's in kindergarten. Those subtle curves and flares don't really matter much as long as it's legible. Imo, I don't think you should be aiming for perfect autistic handwriting, especially when the Japanese have the shittiest handwriting I've seen to date.
>>
>>118080624
Words that leech your time, as in, no matter how many times you try to memorize it, you always forget it.
>>
>>118080684
To be specific, a leech is (by default) a word you fail 12 times.
>>
>>118080610
How many Kanjis do you know, anon?
>>
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>constantly hear bitching about kanji
>never hear bitching about counters
>>
>>118080766
1,500 according to my anki stats.

Before anyone says, "ah but once you grow up you'll need 5,000 kanji" or some such, I want to focus on that I said "occasional kanji look up".
>>
>>118080766
>knowing kanji

Ask yourself what constitutes 'knowing' kanji, anon.
>>
>>118080801
1) Is it a kanji that comes after a number?
2) Does the meaning of the kanji make sense as a nearby object?
3) Either way, ignoring it is fine.
No counters in English m8.
>>
>>118080801

It's just another piece of vocab.
>>
>>118080634
Well, I'm not trying to make it look like calligraphy. I just feel that tracing it a few times before writing it out free hand another few times will help speed up the process.

>>118080684
>>118080708
Ok, I understand.
>>
>>118080841
Nice. How long have you been practicing?
>>
>>118080933
>No counters in English m8.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/counter

It's there. You just aren't aware of it.
>>
>>118080933
Ignoring it isn't fine. They get extremely specific and yet using the more general counters when a specific one exists is incorrect.

What makes them annoying is that for just about every counter, there is pure memorization of required for any exceptions in readings from numbers 1-10.

Do you want to be like Davido-kun who is 21 numbers old?
>>
>>118081175
I dunno, I'd be doing a disservice to give you a straight up time frame. I did core2k/6k for 7 months and learned 1k kanji because I was going so slow. Then I manned up and started focusing on new kanji, and learned 500-ish in a SINGLE month. It all depends on your mindset and approach.
>>
>>118081228
Davido-kun had the great misfortune in that he was forced to produce. I will not have that problem.

Also, isn't the counter for age 歳? How do you mess THAT one up, of all things?
>>
>>118081176
>Although rare and optional in English
A lot of them, or rather, the one I saw is just bullshit I don't even know. 20 head of cattle? Yeah, I have no fuckin' clue that "head" is a counter, I'm just gonna think of it as "20 cattle" even in English. So thanks for confirming my method as universally solid.
>>
>>118081298
Well, if he was 21, he would have had to have said にいっさい instead of what would immediately come to mind, even with the counter -> にいちさい

I bet the latter would be comparable to saying something like "I'm two-one years old" in english.
>>
>>118081370
Hey, stupid, I'm just letting you know that they DO exist.

Saying that there are no counters is wrong, even if they aren't used often.

By the way, shit like: pieces, years, etc can be called counters.
>>
>>118081228
who is davido-kun
>>
>>118081370
Being ignorant doesn't make you right.
>>
>>118081521
Your argument/post has no reason to exist, then. Yeah, our language has unused and rare features! Wow, so neat.
>>
>>118081566
google it
>>
>>118081496
>にいっさい
Is that what you meant to type?
>>
>>118081496
I thought 21 was にじゅういちさい>>118081607
>>
>>118081665
うん、そうだと思う
>>
>>118081750
He's speaking from a casual, real-life speech perspective.
>>
>>118081750
>>118081763

It's にじゅういっさ
>>
>>118081829
。。い
>>
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>>118081604
If someone posts something blatantly wrong, you fucking bet I'm going to correct them.
>>
皆大好きだよ
>>
>>118081890
In communication, ideas are often simplified. When speaking about English, I don't have to clarify "In contemporary, used English, counters don't have a heavy presence, if they're present at all". What you did wasn't correct someone who was wrong - you were autistic about "absolute correctness" instead of having a genuine conversation. tl;dr don't be an autist, it's annoying.
>>
>>118081783
so the 10s can be omitted in casual speech in person because you are clearly in your 20s?
>>
>>118082042
I dunno. Keep your ears pealed and follow your real life experiences. Already we have a conflicting source >>118081829
>>
>>118081982
>instead of having a genuine conversation.

I was under the impression, I was having a "genuine conversation".

This shit obviously sin't going anywhere, o it's best to drop it.
>>
Is it just me or does 亜 not have an entry in Rikai's kanji dictionary?
>>
>>118081894
Slut.
>>
>>118081604
>Yeah, our language has unused and rare features
I'd love to see someone cook without counters.
>>
>>118082844
I do. Stick a pack of ramen in a bowl of water, microwave for one minute.

Also, I don't think measurements (e.g. "pinch of salt) are counters.
>>
>>118082844
I wouldn't call units of measurement counters, because they are not quantized in the same way.

However, you don't want to say "give me 3 papers" when you mean "give me 3 pieces of paper"
>>
>>118082417
Shows up on my end
>>
>>118082935
The slang when I was in school was, "gimme three sheets dawg".
>>
>>118081604

Language is a means by which people communicate clearly.

If a particular manner of speaking would just leave everyone confused, it's debatable that it can even be called a functional part of the language.

>muh dictionary
>muh grammar guide

Chronicles, not authority figures.

If your objective is to effectively communicate, you study grammar structure until it's intuitive, and then you throw the structure out in favor of the intuition.


>muh language "degradation"

You should hate modern day English, then, considering that it looks nothing like the English of 500 years ago.

Change is a natural part of language evolution, and there's no changing it.
>>
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>>118083309
>>
>>118074696
Halp
>>
>>118083381
>>118074696
You don't need motivation to do reps. Just do them. The only obstacle between you and Japanese is doing your reps; so you do them. It's not something you need to motivate yourself for- it's just something you do. It's a lifestyle.
>>
あの……群島、日本です。どうか、よろしくお願い致します……
>>
>>118074696
I fucked up and didn't do reps for 2 years already. It's bad because I can't read shit with 700 kanji.
My extension isn't broken because I have a pass.
>>
>>118083493
あの・・・「・・・」ってを使ってください
>>
>>118083550
What the heck have you been doing for two years? Burn your old deck, make a new one devoted to kanji. I can give you a starter list to mine from.
>>
>>118083584
めんごめんご
>>
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>>118083664
>sorry (not very sincere)
>>
>>118083369
Thanks, shitposter.
>>
>>118083493
そのつまらないゲームよく飽きないな
ゲーム性最悪なのにいままでやめないということはファストフード関係の仕事には才能がありそう
>>
>>118083703
>Rikasama
>>
>>118083784
>sama
>implying furryfox
>>
>>118083784
I actually use Rikaikun.
>>
>>118083584
We've been over this recently: 「…」 not 「・・・」
>>
>>118083835
If you've been over it you should realize that … displays incorrectly on non-japanese computers, and ・・・ looks more like what it should look like.
>>
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>>118083835
People on lang8 I talked with used ・・・. Battler-kun uses it. Also >>118083869
>>
>>118083749
もう一年くらいやってるよ
大体飽きたけど金を使ったから止めたくないね
イベントも楽しいし
>>
>>118083936
何のために金出したの?結婚?
>>
>>118083886
It's … in that pic. That's what it looks like in Japanese fonts.
>>
>>118084011
>you should realize that … displays incorrectly on non-japanese computers, and ・・・ looks more like what it should look like.
>>
>>118084070
Use the right character and people who are concerned about what it looks like can use a Japanese font.

Anyway, at the very least, don't correct someone for using …
>>
>>118084000
結婚と母港拡張枠
お風呂の拡張枠も買った
>>
>>118084226
You're taking what was meant as a lighthearted post pretty seriously.
>>
>>118084290
Christ man, this is DJT not Daily Chinese thread.
>>
Holy shit what's with the new captcha?

I found the way to learn Japanese
Never give up and always do something Japanese
>>
>>118084532
けっこんとぼこうかくちょう
おふろのかくちょうもかった
>>
>>118084713
ほんとにありがとうございます
>>
any download links for elementary grade mathematics books in japanese?
>>
test
>>
>>118084767
Sorry, I only have download links for elementary grade girls' pictures.
>>
Fuck you, moot.
>>
>>118084713
Kanji makes this easier to read. I don't get why people like reading in kana and avoiding kanji. It's also hard to distinguish which is the particle and which is not. It's just stupid.
>>
>>118085110
I didn't say it wasn't.
>>
>>118085110
>I don't get why people like reading in kana
They don't.
>>
>>118084928
>Hindi ako isang robot
Why can't m00t make captcha into kanji or kana. Bots can't into kanji or kana. I wish we can choose captcha style posting.
>>
>>118085280
Buy a 4chan pass today. Oy vey!
>>
>>118085348
How did that little cat turn into a fucking stupid kike.
>>
>>118085404
I actually have a pass and it's pretty great, but offtopic shitposting.
>>
>>118085404
He grew up
>>
>>118085461
>buying a pass
How is that going to protect your anonymity?
>>
>>118085969
I'm not posting CP, so I don't give a fuck.

(Not that guy, by the way.)
>>
>>118085969
Do you really think google doesn't already know everything about you? You're wrong.
>>
>>118085969
>what is VPN
>what is fake names
>what is fake pictures
>living in the US
Also Google doesn't own 1/3 of the internet so I don't give a fuck.
>>
>>118086298
Ultimately it's the sad fact of "who cares if they know who I am"? I'm a NEET who does nothing with his live except learn Japanese. Perhaps the government will force a Rising Sun patch upon me to wear at all times, but really, there's nothing significant about me remaining anonymous.
>>
>>118086388
Plebs gon pleb
>>
>>118086298
>Also Google doesn't own 1/3 of the internet
>implying
>>
Remembering the Kanji
>>
>>118086939
>300 angry shitposts later...
>>
>>118087195
I think everyone's too upset about captcha to do that right now.
>>
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So What's everyone reading tonight?
>>
>>118087820
Flyable Heart; To Love Ru. Isn't going so well.
>>
I've got a quick question about a line in FF VII. I'm playing the game for fun and practice. It's surprisingly not too hard outside of some slurring and Kansai-ben. Anyway, if anyone here has played the game you may remember the part at the beginning of disc 2 where Cloud and Elena meet in Icicle Inn. This was right after Tseng got fucked up in the Temple of the Ancients. In the English version Elena says:

> But you really got guts doin' my boss in like that!
In the Japanese version it's
>よくも私のボスをやってくれたわね!

I've heard that "doing in" is a mistranslation and that the PC version changed it to something like "messing up my boss". When I looked やって up I found that やる can mean "to do someone in" so I can see how the translators translated it the way they did initially. I'm not sure how it can be seen any other way.

Then again, やってくれ can mean "to have been doing something" so can やってくれた possibly mean "to have done"? As in "How dare you have done that to my boss"?
>>
Does anyone know if there are any Japanese MUDs?
>>
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LIVE FOR JAPANESE OR DIE FOR NOTHING

IT'S YOUR CALL
>>
I can't seem to sync anki on mobile and on desktop. It says it's offline?
>>
I'm a robot.
>>
>>118089015
先の方
>>
>>118089051
Is your phone connected to the internet?
>>
>>118089051
It's online for me.
>>
Question, if you are asking the question, 'are you busy now?' How would it be, would it be
1)今は、いそがしいですか
2)今に、いそがしいですか。
Or would it be something else?
>>
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>>118089112
>>118089132
I get picture on desktop. On mobile it says:
Sync Error
Connection timed out. Either your internet connection is experiencing problems or you have a very large file in your media folder.
>>
>>118089240
Wouldn't it be just
今、忙しいですか
>>
How much have you learned in how long?
>>
>>118089341
Is your internet offline?
>>
>>118089372
3 months, 1600 kanji, 4000+ kanji, reading VNS with heavy use of dictionary.
>>
>>118089372
2 years, wrapping up the kana.
>>
>>118089372
I started about two weeks ago and know about a thousand kanji
>>
>>118089375
Obviously not. Unless you are referring to something else I'm not aware of.
>>
>>118089446
4000+ vocab.
御免。
>>
>>118089372
Started last month, having fluent conversations daily now. Thanks, Rosetta Stone™
>>
>>118089450
>>118089375

lel
>>
>>118089446
>>118089499
All that learning and you use the kanji for ごめん?

きもい
>>
>>118089636
I saw it in a VN today.

Fucking 侍 using weird kanji.
>>
>>118089365
That works, I've only had a semester of Japanese so I'm not the best with Kanji. Thanks :)
>>
>>118089731
>御免
>weird
ノー
>>
>>118089341
Did you download a new deck recently? Try deleting it?
>>
>>118089449
How do you learn 1k Kanji in two weeks unless your work night shift security guard or a nest
>>
>>118089731
well in that context its not weird.
>>
>>118089897
You got me. I'm a nest.
>>
>>118089835
You're reading too many hipster VNs
>>
>>118089897
He didn't.

He went through 1k kanji, doesn't mean he retains 1k or can use them all in context.
>>
>>118089897
My IQ increases with every kanji I learn. I started with an IQ of 150, so I automatically knew 150 kanji before I even started. At this point my IQ is roughly 1200, and I can pick up new kanji simply by seeing them once even without context or furigana.
>>
>>118089969
There's a lot of definitions for "knowing" a kanji, most of the time people mean it in the sense that they can recognize it on sight.
>>
whats the best way to learn hiragana/katakana without actually writing them? is there any specific resources that are not extremely difficult to use and can actually help me remember what they all look like and are pronounced like without focusing on stroke order and that type of stuff?
>>
全米
>>
>>118090011
that doesn't help much, unless its vocabulary.

I learned 2k kanji in 3 months. 3 years ago. It was a waste of time.
>>
>>118090034
Write them, tripfag.
>>
>>118090034
fuck off
>>
>>118090070
Weab alert
>>
>>118090034
just use romanji
>>
>>118090070
>3 years ago.
Why're you still here, fatcat? In any case, yeah, recognizing them on sight isn't as good as being super familiar with them, but it's still fine.
>>
>>118090132
It has some uses like pulling general meaning without knowing readings, but after doing it, I'd only recommend it alongside vocab.

I haven't been in here in a long time, just decided to come in.
>>
How would you say something along the lines of 'how are you doing?'
~どですか。
I'm not sure what would be in front of that.
>>
>>118090340
just say
"元気ですか?"
>>
>>118090340
どうですか。
That's all you need really.
>>
>>118090293
I think those who know the kanji, or studied kanji individually, aren't too familiar with the benefits of doing so; because it's like, you can't appreciate happiness without having felt sadness. When I read anything in Japanese, there's always a mental block when looking at kanji, where I (as of yet) are still unfamiliar with them such that I can't instantly recognize most, there's always some struggling. Something like 残す is common, but just uncommon enough that I have to squint briefly to remember it. It's a big damper. In short, being able to recognize kanji is very helpful.

I do vocab-based kanji study, but I'm sure doing individual kanji study would help eliminate this struggle.
>>
>>118090679
Why did you use a period when asking a question? I see that all the time and it drives me nuts because I don't understand why they do that.
>>
>>118090976
Thats why I recommend to learn kanji with 1 or two vocab. Even one may seem overwhelming, but giving attention to vocab and then learning a vocabulary with a reading, helps a ton later on down the line.
Individually learning just kanji or just vocab without kanji focus has its merits and its faults. Both to me are time wasters, unless you don't mind going slow.

>>118091147
か is basically a question mark, but even japanese us か with ? so as long as you have one or the other or both its a question.
>>
It's obviously a question since it ends in か. Why be redundant?
>>
>>118091147
The Japanese don't really use question marks. They do, but it's not a requirement.
>>
>>118091235
"Why be redundant" is obviously a question since it begins with Why, why be redundant.
>>
>>118091235
Idk, ask japan, they do it all the time.
>>
>>118091220
Using ? doesn't always necessarily mean it's a question, they often use it just to indicate a change in the tone of voice
>>
>>118091367
I didn't want to confuse a beginner with more intermediate stuff.

I was just saying that there are cases where both are used and its a question.
>>
>>118088792

>Then again, やってくれ can mean "to have been doing something" so can やってくれた possibly mean "to have done"? As in "How dare you have done that to my boss"?

You got it.
>>
>>118091489
Not that guy; but would that be やって + くれる as in the meaning of "to do for one"? or is it passive くる?
>>
>>118091577
>"to do for one"
It's ironic ;)
>>
>>118091577
not him either, but
>would that be やって + くれる as in the meaning of "to do for one"
yes

"do to one" is closer than "do for one" given that this usage is mostly negative, but くれる has no exact english parallel so fuck translations

> or is it passive くる?
passive 来る is 来られた
I don't think passive くれる exists
>>
>>118092811
>I don't think passive くれる exists
I meant potential, my mistake.

Thank you for the help, I understand it now.
>>
What are the two kanji after 電波? The closest I could find to the third one on Jisho is 陪 but it can't be right, it's missing a stroke. I couldn't find anything that resembled the last one at all.
>>
>>118093167

電波障害
>>
>>118093167
It's 障害, just kind of blurry.
>>
>>118093248

Thanks. Seems I missed 障 and didn't use the correct radicals for 害.
>>
>>118093167

>MGS
>That feel when you like Solid Snake's Japanese VA more than any of his English VAs
>Most of the other Japanese VAs are pretty good too (not to say that the English ones are bad)
>Can't play MGS in Japanese because it seems too weird to see American agents and their bosses speaking in Japanese.
>The later games are censored

Well, it's not like I could follow MGS dialogue in Japanese at this point anyway.
>>
>>118089240
1 is correct, 2 is unnatural

but the entire construction is overly rigid if all you're trying to get across is the question "got a sec?"

「ちょっといいですか?」
「あ、はい。」

「今はいそがしいですか?」 sounds like like a follow up question to a person telling you how busy they've been recently

>>118089365
here's usually a correct particle, even if it gets omitted
>>
WAKE UP
>>
おっと、嬢ちゃん、勝手に死んじゃぁ困りますよ・・・

人質は生きたままでないとね・・・
>>
>>118094960
起きろ
>>
>>118095015
でも、お仕置きが必要なのは変わらないな
ほら、そのいやらしい体で俺のチンポをこんなに興奮させたじゃないか
しかるべき罰を与えないとねw
>>
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does anyone else do this? i find it kinda hard to enjoy anime while trying to pay attention to two sets of subtitles at top and bottom. im trying to find a good way to have them line up without overlapping or obscuring too much of the screen.
>>
>>118095176

Why even have them both show at the same time?
>>
日本人とはなんだ
随分哲学的な質問だなと思ってもしかたない
でも、考えてみればすぐに答えが明瞭になるはずだ

日本人は人種?
いな。日本人の両親で生まれたアメリカ人がたくさんいるよね。そいつらには日本人の魂がみじんたりとも残っていないだろう

日本人は日本で生まれた方?
それもちがう。日本で生まれた白人を日本で生まれただけで日本人と呼べるものか

では、どうやって「日本人」を定義するか?そう!性格と、体の特徴で定義すればいいんじゃない!日本人の特徴といえば、チンポが小さいとか、性格が大人しいとか、女と話すのが怖いとか(このせいで少子化問題が大変な状態に)いろんな特徴が簡単に思い浮かぶだろう?だから、そんな特徴で定義しよう。

これから結論に至るが、お前らは喜ぶべきだ。だってさ、チンポが小さくて女と話せないお前らこそ立派な日本人ではないか!
>>
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>learning kanji by kyoiku grade order
>been on break from active studying for months
>look up some kanji while reading
>a good amount of them happen to be part of the grade level I'm supposed to be learning

>>118090034
http://www.aeriagloris.com/LearnJapanese/

This right here was a godsend to me.
>>
>>118097033
I once did a Kanji deck and a Vocab deck side by side; I would never recognize kanji from the Kanji deck in the Vocab deck; but if I saw it in the vocab deck first, I'd recognize it in the kanji deck.

What I'm trying to say is... perhaps don't learn kanji individually?
>>
Is "オレの下はスタンドだ" some kind of meme or something? Does it basically mean "I am erect"?
>>
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>>118095624
Please look at this picture, here's the everything what you want to know that.
>>
>>118097785

Context? Could be a JoJo reference. Could be porn. Could be JoJo porn.
>>
>>118097108
I recognize kanji well enough; just haven't gotten around to being exposed to the whole grade's set as I work on them chunks at a time.
>>
>>118097785
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1120444506
Yes
>>
>>118097785
>>118097947
Not that guy, but it reminded me of a similar question.

The dude in Amaburi who says 前かがみです  is saying he has an erection right? I was confused by what the subs did with that.
>>
>>118097889
A dude said it while looking at someone they find attractive. Nothing related to Jojo.
>>118097947
I see, that makes sense, thank you.
>>
>>118097976
Yes, because he's implying he's bending forward to hide it.
>>
Would it be easier/faster to learn Japanese in Korean?
>>
>>118099552
If you know korean better than you know english, yes.
>>
>>118099552

Probably not.

English -> Japanese has the best developed language learning tools on the web. You can practically hook yourself into 24/7 日本語 life support.

Being familiar with Korean might speed things along a little for you, though.
>>
>>118099552
Are you fluent in Korean? I wouldn't advise learning Korean just to learn Japanese.
>>
>>118099675
Although Korean is my first language, my English is definitely a lot better.

>>118099809
Ah I see, so I guess it would be better for me to learn it in English.

>>118100002
Middle school level. I have no problem reading/understanding Korean (except Chinese characters), but I can't convey my thoughts well in writing/speaking.

Thanks for the earnest replies guys, I was expecting /jp/ tier corean memes but glad that wasn't the case.
>>
From Tae Kim, Casual Patterns and Slang, Essential Grammar:

>We have already seen many examples of the first method such as shortening 「かもしれない」 to 「かも」

Wait a minute TeeKimu. I'm pretty sure that is not anywhere to be found if you follow the Grammar Guide.

I guess it's something from the "Complete" one. But I've been avoiding it since it mixed more advanced things with basic ones in the examples (and DJT suggests mainly the not Complete guide).

So, please, where is that 「かもしれない」 thing?
>>
>>118101988
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/certainty

It is actually found a bit later, but it's not very difficult to get what he is trying to say.
>>
>>118102104
Oh. Well, the "We have already seen" part confused me.

Thanks.
>>
So, Yakuza 5 is coming to PSN in English. How do you feel about that,those of you learning Japanese for Yakuza? Or those of you who already learned and played it?
>>
>>118101988
thats 50/50 certainity brah
>>
>>118102876
>implying the localisation is not totally shit and they sound nothing like yakuza in the english version
>>
>>118101988
yea i didnt see it earlier either but the good news is かも知れない is an idiomatic expression and you can find it in dictionaries (check jisho.org) as is
>>
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Is your heart filled with thunder when you're learning Japanese?
>>
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>>118102876
>So, Yakuza 5 is coming to PSN in English. How do you feel about that,those of you learning Japanese for Yakuza?
I don't really care because 龍が如く0 is coming out in a few months. If it took them three years to translate 5 then they're probably going to skip over 龍が如く 維新 entirely and there might be an English translation for 龍が如く0 in another three years.

The translation quality is just too poor and the wait time is too enormous. Thinking that 5 was never going to be translated gave me the push that I needed back when I started about a year ago, at this point I can almost play the games comfortably. I'm glad that I didn't start learning recently though. If this news came out a year ago then it might have crippled my studies.
>>
>>118104210
More like, dread and despair.
>>
Quick question about something. I'm reading Dragon Ball right now and came across this sentence.

>おどろくわよ〜 ビーデルのパパはなんと あの ミスター・サタンなの!

Basically "You won't believe it but Videl's father is non-other than Mister Satan!"

So I get the intent of the sentence, but I don't really know なんと here. The definitions of なんとare "What; how; whatever" (and a couple other things that couldn't possibly be being used here). あの is probably just "that" literally. "That Mister Satan". But what about なんと? Could someone tell me its exact usage here?
>>
>>118104335
>龍が如く
龍の如し is correct in Japanese grammar.
>>
>>118104406
That's the name of the series.
>>
>>118104210
Initially it's a terrible feeling, but then the amphetamines kick in and it feels like that scene in Lord of the Rings when Gandalf arrived at Helm's Deep.
>>
>>118104386
There, it's a bit like "would you believe it", used for kind of a theatrical building up before the thing that's supposed to be surprising

JMdict's J->E definitions tend to be too limited for stuff like that

dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/je2/56891/m1u/何と/
>そこで会ったのが何と田中さんでした
>Who should I meet there but Mr. Tanaka!
>>
>>118063914
Livung in nipland for two years, ive found that ĥe has mostly fallen by the way side, stick with ni
>>
>>118104660

Thank you for the explanation and the link.
>>
>>118104386
You got it,
For Example:
なんと今まで女の子だと思っていたあの娘は男の子だった(今まで今まで女の子だと思っていたあの娘はなんと男の子だった。)
あなたの家にある花は、なんと美しいのでしょう。
この仕事を明日までに終わらせなければ部長に怒られ私のボーナスは激減してしまい、なんと夏の家族旅行がいけなくなってしまう。

So, "なんと" just works emphasize the fact of things.
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>>118102883
Yeah, but my problem was not 「かもしれない」. It was that TK's web could get a bit of proof-reading.

Another example:

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/numbers

Under "Dates". Move your mouse over 平成12年, the 12年 part to be exact. The pop-up window with the reading will say じゅうご instead of じゅうに.

They are little things, but I don't think you need to rebuild the whole page to fix them.
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>>118104758
>works emphasize
works to emphasize*
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>>118104210
i just get horny while learning japanese
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>>118104837
to be honest i bought the printed version and didn't use the site
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>>118105139
But why? The site is free and just as good.
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>>118104837
>•0.0021 = ゼロ、点、ゼロ、ゼロ、二、一。
I think some more natural ways of saying it would be レイ、点、ゼロ、ゼロ、二、一。
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>>118105175
somehow couldn't get motivated with reading the guide online. bought the book and read through that in a short time. i guess i just prefer to read stuff in a physical book.
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>>118105175
Not him.
While I'm a shameless pirate overall, Tae Kim is probably one of the few people who wrote a book about Japanese who genuinely deserves his money. His guide IS that helpful.
Mind you, the Complete Guide and youtube videos aren't, but I think the mere existence of the Grammar Guide does justify that he barely did anything useful afterwards. Kinda like with DJT Guide.
Plus, he does offer it for free. I didn't buy this book because I don't want to use Internet deliveries just to get something I already read, but as long as I'm not forced to pay, I'm actually more inclined to buy something, kinda.
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>>118105647
I know what you mean. Tae Kim, the DOJG team, and the Anki team all deserve buckets of cash. I'm still sorta stunned that Anki is free on PC when it's as incredible as it is.
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Do you guys ever feel like you've conquered grammar, even though you know you're only like N3 level? Like a haughty arrogance, Dekinai whispering in your hear, "oh you've definitely mastered it now, go read Muramasa".
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>>118105175
Not him either.

My eyes/head hurt as fuck after 2 hours of 4chan lurking or Japanese reviewing. I need papers.

When I was a kid I could spend like 6 hours in front of the crt with my Master System. I wonder what happened with my endurance. Maybe it were those sessions, that weakened me afterwards. Fucking videogames.
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>>118106426
Do you browse with the "tomorrow" style?
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>>118106482
Nah, it's not that. Even after 1 hour of videogames (likem two runs of Binding of Isaac) my eyes start to get itchy.

I played too fucking much, from 5-20 years old.
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>pick random movie to watch
>know some of the conversation at the start

It's really working? I'm definitely gonna practice more.
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>>118106426
It's the computer screens, they are the devil to read on.

Get CRT or LED based TVs that you can use as a monitor instead of that LCD or plasma garbage
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>>118106624
Against all odds, studying Japanese does lead to you knowing Japanese.
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>>118106691

How long does it really take to fully know Japanese to watch, let's say, a movie or anime raw?
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about tree fiddy
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>>118106728
How long is a piece of string? It's all up to how much you study, how long you study, and a bunch of other factors.

It shouldn't take too much longer than two years if you study consistently every day.
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>>118106784

I see. how do you usually put commitment to doing it everyday?
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>>118105924
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>>118106830
I do my reps. I read almost every post on DJT. I try to read anything Japanese I see, which is a lot because I surround myself in Japanese. Reps are really the most important thing, though.
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>>118106683
If I ever get out of yuropoor status, I'll remember your advice.

>>118106728
If you do a lot of raw listening practice... If you could live and work in Japan for one or two years...

For sealf-teaching neets (like myself), if you work a lok everyevryeseriouslyeveryday I calculate 3 years tops. If you are lazy, 5 years. If you drop Anki and Japanese for some months, you start over even after 4 years, like what some anon suffered, who told about it like 50 threads ago.
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>>118106897
>I read almost every post on DJT
You poor thing.
Also, while there are occasional slips of brilliant advice here that make it worth checking it out frequently, they're too rare to literally read every single post. Spending this time on something else is overall more productive... Well, if we're talking about every single post - visiting here a few times a week is probably beneficial.
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>>118107037
I don't spend all day every day studying. I have a lot of downtime, as a neet, and during that time I have DJT on auto-refresh. It's been like that for about 8 months. It's not like I'm doing DJT as opposed to something else, DJT is just a background thing.

It's actually done wonders. Every time someone asks a question about grammar, I read it, and the answer. That adds up.
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>>118107081

Not him but, when did you started to notice that you can read things in Japanese more "easier" and weren't just a bunch of lines that make you confused?
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>>118107118
After I finished Tae Kim and Core2k. Roughly. Core2k *really* helps you distinguish words in a sentence, and Tae Kim really helps you distinguish "grammar" parts of a sentence, so to speak. An important thing though was constantly trying to read sentences, whether they be stuff posted on DJT, Tae Kim's sentences, or just stuff from the wild.
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>>118106836
That doesn't look to be very effective.
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>>118107177

How many times did you practice from Tae Kim to keep it stuck in your head? my writing is pretty much shit, but I'm thinking I'd have to start all over again so that my handwriting is decent. I also need to understand words, phrases, etc..
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>>118107081
Ah. I'm not a NEET, so whem I'm on downtime I usually still have things to do.
OK, got it.
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>>118107249
I read his page on "の" about 10 times I think. Other pages, I read once and haven't gone back to. When you read something, and encounter grammar you don't know, that's when you reference back to Tae Kim and freshen up. Let's just say I got confused about の quite often...

Don't worry about your handwriting, it's fine to have ugly handwriting as long as you're recalling the character's radical composition accurately.
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>>118107341

Alright then. was learning sentences or sayings hard for you? It's not that it's hard to put commitment, I'm just confused in the starting point.
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>>118107453
Learning sentences...? Getting used to sentence composition was pretty tough. It's really just a matter of sticking with it. You don't need talent to learn Japanese, you need tenacity.
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>>118107341
Oh, yeah, I still think the chapter about の is the hardest in the guide. It's just so confusingly widely used... I think only the chapter on という can somewhat compete.
Sure, counters are hard to memorise and keigo has lots of new words which are used only for keigo, but の is the first thing that really is hard to understand on conceptual level. Pretty much the first thing in this guide that is not just a lazy stroll through the language.
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In anki do you guys review all you are "required" to first then learn new words, or review and learn new at the same time?
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>>118107341
Thats because tae kim's explanation of の is terrible.
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>>118107566

Yeah, I'm trying to put some tenacity even though my mind wants to give up. I don't know how you guys do it, but I think I'm starting to see why.
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>>118107567
Oh geez, I'm getting flashbacks to という... yeah, の was especially hard to learn, because it was referred to as the "ownership" particle everywhere.
>>118107618
What do you think is a good explanation? Tae Kim has held true all this time for me.
>>118107646
Do you have anki? If you have anki installed, it's a simple matter to create an iron rule to always study. After six months of doing anki literally every day, "quitting" doesn't even cross your mind. It's a part of you.
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>>118107695

Yeah, I've got Anki. but which pack do I start with? or should I say, which pack do i start with that doesn't leave me clueless as what to type down.
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>>118107341
I don't if you will be able to answer that, but... Well...
I'm currently going through RTK on turbo pace and already past the halfway point, all without learning vocabulary. The reasons for why I do RTK and not Core are complex and I don't want to discuss them now. Anyway, even if I wanted to drop it, I think it's easier to just finish it already, which is why I'm going turbo.
So, a question, would I be able to learn vocabulary purely from reading after I finish it? Or would I need to install Core to be able to read somewhat comfortably after all? I would like to minimise my involvement with Anki as much as possible (RTK notwithstanding, 'cause I'm finishing it), but only as long as reading doesn't feel like torture.
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Does anyone know if using a PAL bios with a NSTC-J game will slow the dubbings? PAL was obviously slower with snes roms, but I'm not sure with psx.

I'm testing with Boku no Natsuyasumi, I think they speak a bit slower, but maybe it's my imagination.
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>>118107787
http://pastebin.com/dDGCTkSC
This will get you going. If you have any questions after setting it up, ask away.
>>118107822
You're gonna struggle a lot. In the easier works such as shounen manga, half the words are written in hiragana *specifically* in order to avoid kanji, so your studies won't help there. Furthermore, you won't know any of the readings- for example, you may know 飲む means drink, but you're not gonna know it's read as のむ. The same holds true for jukugo- you may recognize the kanji and have a good idea for the meaning of the word, you're gonna struggle to read it. For example, 飲水. Easy modo. Drinking water. But are you gonna know it's read as "のみみず"?

You will be able to pick up vocabulary much faster; but going straight up reading is not gonna be comfortable unless you do anki vocabulary studies, *I think*. Give it a go for yourself and see how you do before making a long-term decision. Though, IMO, anki is always the right decision, boring though it may be.
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>>118107787
Look at the OP's anki guide.
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