/omg/ - Occultism and Magick General

>>19478280
what the fuck is that picture on a WORK SAFE BOARD you massive moron?

>>19478283
That's not porn, it's esoteric symbolism or some such.
Relax faggot.

>>19478283

please stop swearing. we try not to use the "f word" on this board.

>>19478287
Pictures of realistic gigantic erect dicks are safe for work, yes?

>>19478289
If you're shitposting when you should be working, you need to be fired. Unless of course, your job is to shitpost...

>>19478289
Do you for a single second think there aren't anons here who can see your silly little robe and that cramped terminal?
Do you think those same anons can't see into your mind? The things you thought you'd hidden from everyone?
No, you don't get to play that game here. There are those who SEE.

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>>19478280
Redpill me on Spirit Science youtube channel.

>>19478325
nice meme, you see absolutely nothing about me

>>19478280
Queen Lilith, my love.

>>19478330
Yet you felt the need to tell me so.
Don't worry, the master arm switch is off today. I'm just giving you a hard time for the sake of it.

>>19478283
Lets play spot the bored house wife who cant tell the difference between art and porn.

>>19478329
Close, but no cigar. It lead me to some important magiks though.

>>19478337
you felt the need to reply to me too so whats good kid?

>>19478338
do you know what safe for work means? is erotic art safe for work? read the rules faggot

>>19478346
That condition can change, of course... should the need arise.

>>19478340
It feels it's leading me to somewhere. But at the same time looks silly.

Even made me rethink about the crystal meme magic.

>>19478353
>incoherent schizophrenic babbling

>>19478357
Welp, that looks like an ON condition to me.

>>19478364
>even more incoherent schizophrenic babbling

>>19478373
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlkH687M4YM

>>19478280
Lol this image is 156 kb

>>19478375
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi12f5j1VA0

We are winning, but I don't see the point anymore.

>>19478388
The point is to hurt them, to sear into their minds what a mistake it was to start a fight with the wrong motherfuckers.

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Is it worth learning Sanskrit if I intend to initiate into Kashmir Shaivism?

Would being able to glean some meaning of mantra on my own before being taught about them be a good thing? Or would it only hinder me by causing me to make false assumptions?

>>19478388
>posting songs and saying random shit trying to sound "mysterious and deep" is winning

always delusional

>>19478405
I post not so random songs and I'm not mysterious to the people I was talking to.

That includes you.

>>19478414
youre full of shit look at your post >>19478388
you were obviously trying to be so mysterious and cool

>le We are winning, but I don't see the point anymore.

I came for majyycz not arguing about dick art

>>19478424
Lucky you. Put on your goggles and watch the show.

>>19478423
There's nothing cool about a depressed old fag anon.

>>19478428
that song is pretty good though

>>19478329
totally delusional, tried to debunk the moon.

>>19478435
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDTTnXfsMus

Have another.

>>19478445
Dude have valid doubts.

>>19478283
Lol
>Americans

>>19478280
>>19478336
That's Babalon.

>Incessant Trolling
>Hair-splitting Club
>Q&A
>Current Events
>Ape's Politico Hour
>Dick-measuring

Yay, the format of summer /omg/
Someone tell me when we get to current events, I got a good one today.

Hey /omg/ can you help me?
>>19478120

>>19478865
do the crossroads thing

>>19479108
What is that?

>>19478865
>>19479108
>>19479130
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Johnson#Devil_legend

>>19478280
>riding a literal cock monster while drinking from a cup of blood and cocks
Sounds like the average teenage girl these days

>>19478280
they removed the pic, bunch of faggots

wew good start to the thread
I'll check back in next 24 hours

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Does anyone have a copy of The Hands of Apostasy?

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Yay, more books. Any good free resources in the library or online for more conventional astrology? My shit is weak.

>>19479949
I've been looking, but not very hard. I did preorder the Luminous Stone though. I'll try to scan it.

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Could I get /omg/ thoughts on pic related. I'm working my way through it at the moment but find myself battling with some of the concepts within. Does anyone have experience with this book?

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>>19480176
There is a lewd amount of footnotes in this thing.

>>19480257
I remember one of the tripfags called it garbage, so it's good imo.

:^)

>>19480260
It's not lewd until there's three hundred pages of footnotes in the back like Infinite Jest.

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>>19480347
>endnotes

Is there any reason to go to Salem, MA aside from the history of the place?
Is there anything I could get there, physical or not, that I wouldn't be able to get from an area with nothing occult for miles?

>>19480450
Not really.

I need Infinite Jest Part II: The occult

I didn't even like the book. I just found it interesting and it'd be neat to read a book that is as detailed and autistic

>>19480457
House of Leaves is interesting. Not the best book in the world, but interesting and worth a read for the cosmic horror aspect.

>>19480457
Have you read Illuminatus!
It's about 800 pgs and I always saw parallels between DFW's style and RAW's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImAlx0amAIc

>>19480176
>>19480260
> Chris Brennan
Huh. Wasn't this recommended by another anon back in the threads? Dat price tag. But nice footnotes.

>>19480260
Just started reading mine last night and thought the same, tasty.

>>19478329
Snake oil salesmen trying to prevent you from walking the true path by polluting your mana with subliminal hexes implanted in their garbage videos. Not only are you giving them ad revenue with every click, but you're also harming yourself by paying it any mind at all.

>>19478865
Anyone?

>>19482572
>Snake oil salesmen trying to prevent you from walking the true path by polluting your mana with subliminal hexes implanted in their garbage videos.
All those buzzwords in one sentence. Wow.

But yeah, that channel is shit.

>>19480257

Back in the Dark Ages of alt.magick, DMK would anonymously argue with anyone who criticized his crappy book.

>>19480260

Looks about average.

>>19480257
I have worked thru this book when I began, with what concepts are you battling?

>>19482787

Well, it's a tough one... my issues may come from an initial misunderstanding of magick itself. I was under the impression it would take elements from many religions but I'm at lesson 4 now and it feels very exclusive to Judaism.

The idea that the divine is free of dualities works very well with me and I can agree with many concepts but it doesn't feel right to be vibrating Hebrew words all the time when I have no ties to Judaism at all. Surely a divine free from dualities would respond to more than one language?

It's just starting to feel a bit too exclusively Jewish for a divine that incorporates all. I think I was expecting a bit more "freedom of interpretation" when it came to visualizing divine interactions

>>19482822
>it doesn't feel right to be vibrating Hebrew words all the time when I have no ties to Judaism at all.

Why?

It's the age in wch we live. Everyone wants to do as they please and still achieve.

>>19482822
Do you have the English translation of the God names? If not stick to the books translation.

>>19478812
Hey it's time for current events

>>19482822
Deal with it. When you deal with this stuff you need to accept syncretism. Look at the Greek Magical Papyri, is a greek-egyptian document with gnostic, jewish and orphic influences...
Since you are working with that book, you are dealing with the Golden Dawn stuff, which is very influenced by freemasonry and judaism, but also hermeticism.

>>19482822
I'd assume every magickian is more comfortable with some systems/languages/etc than others, but if nothing else, practicing with unfamiliar or less desirable systems is a good mental workout.

Hey Ape or anyone for that matter, has anyone ever seen let alone gotten their hands on an English translation of Shams al-Ma'arif?

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>>19480260
I've seen more obscene footnoting. Often to humorous effect.

>>19483580
Nope.

>>19483589
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibid_(short_story)

>>19479191
>died at 27
Goddamn.
>>19483608
One of the few writings by Lovecraft I genuinely enjoyed.

>>19483633
I was always in love with "The Transition of Juan Romero"

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Thoughts?

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>>19483589
Is this better?

This is the most source and academic treatise I've seen in a long time. It's no surprise he has an actual, legitimate degree specifically in astrology.

>>19483659
Haven't read it, seems dubious, doubtful it has anything you won't get by going to source grimoires.

>>19483671
I like the fact he's including brief concordance in footnotes.

>>19483680
He's working from 8 different translations plus his own work with some of the translators to provide a broader picture of what as meant. Reminds me of the TBS KJV, where 'curious' doesn't mean what you think, nevermind all the puns.

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>>19483671
Now that's more familiar to me.

>>19483659
I don't think I've been aware of that one until just now. I guess I'll have to give it a read-through.

>>19483580
>your post made me wonder what translation services cost
>25$ a page * 600 pages = 15000$
Well, fuck.

>>19483780
Is that for Spanish because we have a Spanish Shams al Maarif

>>19483785
I'm not really sure, I just searched translation services and grabbed the first price that came up for that guestimation.
>spanish version
That's more readable than arabic, at least. It's a start.

>>19483789
In the grimoires folder, mate.

>>19483800
Sweet. I never did get around to looking at what all was in there.

>>19483789
>non-academic translation
It's a waste of money unless they halfway understand what it is they're translating.

>>19484014
True, it'd probably be on par with a google translate, and that's certainly not worth 15 large.

>>19484064
Fuckers with PhDs in [language] are doing it for like 6k a novel. You want one of them doing it by the word at the very least.
>ywn have Alfred Birnbaum and Jay Rubin translate Shingon texts and Yamabushi accounts of praxis at your behest
Or they will, who knows. My sights are set high enough to make it happen before either of them die.

>>19483800
So the grimoires have stuff for body
Alteration like hight and dick length

>>19484089
>6k a novel.

That's pretty fucking cheap.

>>19484126
Bruh.

>>19484651
Translation services as a whole are pretty fucked on the literary end. It's probably more, but I've seen shit go for that or less.

>>19484665
Yeah, copy is much more profitable.

$2k a sales letter, to start.

Can anyone recommend any good movies about the occult and magic? Figured I'd ask here. I don't care if it's full on ritual like A Dark Song or mystery/thriller involving occult themes like The Ninth Gate.

>>19485030
tarkovsky's stalker :^)

>>19482894
http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Putin-Says-US-Presidents-Are-Puppets-Men-in-Dark-Suits-Rule-Washington.mp4

Watching it again, it is more relevant to /x/ and not /omg/ specifically, but hidden-hand worthy nonetheless.

>eclipse in Leo conjunct Regulus
>likely (guaranteed) to lead to an unprecedented rise in white racial consciousness
How does it feel, shitskins? You might have to flee this country soon.

>>19482846
>>19482862
>>19483179
>>19483226

Thanks for the feedback guys. A quick toss of the tarots pretty much backed up what each of you were saying. Your advice was greatly appreciated

>>19485349
Not just racial but highly spiritual.

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For all the hype from brainlets, years of occultism has turned Jung into light reading.

I'm going on a ~7 hour drive tomorrow and wanted to use that time to listen to anything educational relating to the occult.

I'm still really new so anything beginner level is ideal, does anyone know of any e-readings/podcasts/audio books/videos that I can just listen to/etc that would fit what I'm looking for?

>>19486013
Anything in particular you're interested in?

>>19486031
Not really, I'm very new so I'm looking to take in anything and everything at this point. However so far I've only really looked into a small part of thelemic and hermetic things

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>>19486013
>>19486038
Agrippa.

>>19486013
There's a bit of the Manly P Hall PRS presentation recordings on youtube.

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What kind of a ritual would you recommend for acid/shrooms? You know, particular gods or spirits to work with, technique that keep you focused etc.

I evoke anime characters on weekly basis.

>>19486995
I recommend getting sober and achieving similar results to those under the influence before getting into magick combined with psychoactive substances.

>>19487021
Not what I'm asking for. I want to explore high itself.

Does anybody have anything on Asura worship?

Is chaos magick a valid system/path? I like what I read in Liber Null, but then I see how are the practicioners and they don't seems to reach too far in the path. Looks like they don't aim to some transcendental objective, they just satisfice their most basic needs and thats it...

>>19487141
Chaos magick is anarchist tier.

>>19478445
We should all try to "debunk" or otherwise disprove everything we believe, and prove everything we disbelieve. Only this way can we make much progress. Trying to "debunk" the moon sounds pretty silly, but if they actually designed an experiment and carried it out in a scientific manner in order to have a better understanding of the universe, I applaud.

>>19487144
Is it really? So, it's got nothing to do with green magic, does it? Are the two compatible? Is someone who practices the path of chaos still bound to not hurt anyone with their practices? I guess the same question about Goetia? I know generally Thelema and Wiccan, in general, one should not bring harm.

>>19487222
The Wicca thing is probably mostly due to a misunderstanding of the threefold law. I stopped explaining it to self professed Wiccans because, as a Thelemite, I don't feel it should be my job to educate others about their own religions. Also, if one is practicing a thing called Chaos Magick, methinks one can do no harm if they look but close into the word.

>>19487034
You don't need ritual to do that and in fact it may even hinder you. Just keep a journal from the time you take your substance until well after it wears off. Even Crowley didn't use ritual to "explore a high."

>>19487034
>>19487253
What I mean is, if you have ever read Crowley's records of his experiments with drugs, or if you have ever read a well-written Erowid Experience Report...Pretty much that style of journal, or really whatever you think will record the most information in the most convenient way. Tape recorders help but can become useless when you go to listen later and find you were making raccoon sounds when you thought you were giving a well-reasoned summary of how you were feeling at the time.

>>19480176
oh hey you're reading Hellenistic astrology! That delights me.

More conventional- Liz Greene is
held in high esteem by Very Serious classical astrologers, and she herself works within a psychological model that will look a lot more familiar to the astrological dabbler. You could try something of hers. Im not sure if she has a primer but she writes a good column on astro.com you could peruse. Cafeastrology is the site that I spent like easily 30 hours on learning the foundations of contemporary astrology.

If you want to buff your basics, memorize the glyphs. Then take a crack at your own chart - that's how I started.

To this anon:
>>19475769
Since I just got back and went thru old threads I missed...

Crowley SUBSCRIBED to the psych model for a large portion of his life. I will not say whether it was the majority or not because I have not looked into it quite that deeply yet. This is different from "pushing." I don't see any documents where he is evangelizing for the psych model. Also, don't you think the fact that he found better results after changing to the spirit model, AFTER *MANY* attainments, maybe perhaps possibly is indicative of something?

To THIS anon:
>>19483988

How is that teaching career coming? ;-)

>>19487293
>Crowley SUBSCRIBED to the psych model for a large portion of his life.

Based on what, exactly? What he wrote and what he believed were not necessarily the same.

>>19487302
I'm mainly going by his introduction to the Goetia and some correspondences I have seen. But I'm not asserting for how long he believed such things, only that he appears to have definitely subscribed to that model at some point in his occult career.

>I will not say whether it was the majority or not because I have not looked into it quite that deeply yet

>>19487141
>Looks like they don't aim to some transcendental objective
Such as?
>muh high magick
How do you know this is a decent path?

>>19487302
>>19487317
He also said when he first learned about summoning elementals he set up an altar by the water and did an evocation expecting them to jump right out of the water at him. He also said Liber L was received in 1904. I can only take him at his word, in cases of his personal life, until I come across something that disproves it, I guess.

>>19487141
Only insofar as you don't by the "Dude just cosplay on LSD and it's ritual cos it's Chaos and you can do whatever ya want...WE IZ CHAOTES N SHEIT!" But yeah "Chaos Magick" is an incredibly effective system when implemented properly. *Some* of the best Chaotes never identified as such or didn't even know the term.

>>19487302
I probably shouldn't have said "LARGE portion." I'm a bit uncertain as to why you're taking exception to my slipshod response (which admittedly has some holes in it) over what THIS anon asserted, though...

>>19475769 →

>>19487327
> *Some* of the best Chaotes never identified as such or didn't even know the term.
This anon makes a good point. Magickians were doing that before there was a word for it.

Shrouds and canopic jars for GMP and Egyptian reconstructions:

https://mandrake.uk.net/ogdos/wall-hangings-shrouds/

Sexual Alchemy in the Mega? Looking for anything on it for an anon in another thread...

>>19487410
Under alchemy (wet way) and sexual magick.

Hey /omg/
During the solar eclipse I felt a sort of tingle in the middle of my forehead, like it was sucking in energy, did anyone else feel it?
It's weird because I stopped practicing for a couple of months now, and no feel it as much. But now the same sensation has come back.
And the day after that, I felt it once again.
What does it mean?

>>19487293
>Crowley SUBSCRIBED to the psych model for a large portion of his life
What a useless faggot.

>>19487474
No idea, I got the feeling of a tryptamine onset for the duration.

>>19486995
Why can't you just eat drugs and watch a movie or go outside like a normal human bean

>>19487551
If you're going to take a trip to the underworld, you may as well have an itinerary and make the most of it. I agree with you in principle, but sometimes you want to try new things.

>>19487392
Neat. Would those be suitable for Chumbleys elemental jars you think?
>>19487483
Crowley was that for a fair while until he got past his edgy atheist phase. I'm pretty sure his experiences with his HGA made him clearly see the limitations with the psychological model

>>19487559
>If you're going to take a trip to the underworld, you may as well have an itinerary and make the most of it.

If you're going to roleplay as Orpheus, be sober. You cannot make any astute evidence based observations if you are on psychoactive substances.

What do u do when u see the devil on the astral plane and he talks to you.

He's giving me what I want but I'm not giving my soul up. This is a trick but I'm not sure how.

>>19487474
I also have no idea but i get consistent center of forehead tingles/burns so I figured I'd chime in to say that's a thing that happens to someone other than you. I have a birth mark on my head that was *blazing* just after the eclipse.

>>19487565
It's the underworld, you can't make astute observations about anything anyway because everything is a chaotic mess of fucked and wrong reflections. The most you can do is make a list of shit to check out and wing it from there, which is what you do when you trip like a normalfag. It's functionally and experientially the same.

>>19487600
>It's the underworld, you can't make astute observations about anything anyway because everything is a chaotic mess of fucked and wrong reflections.

But that's wrong.

>>19487483
Lel. Did you even read any of the rest of the discussion/debate? Or just the fragment that suited your pre-built context? Personally, I find if I only read the parts that suit me, I am never the least bit challenged and I never have to engage in thoughtful debate.

>>19487563
I literally cannot understand how shit-tier you must be to subscribe to the psych model. His essay advocating for such is the most retarded thing I have ever read.

>>19487614
I guess it depends on whether you guys are talking about the world of gun running, drug dealing, prostitution, and bookkeeping, or a Tartarus-like-place.

>>19487623
This isn't about debate. This is about removing a cancer.

>>19487626
Tartarus, the Unconscious, the Hedge. That place Over There that isn't Here.

>>19487626
A Tarturus like place would allow for astute observations with sobriety. In your case you won't be able to tell if you're seeing the etheric vibe of the river styx or the trails from your acid tab.

>>19487624
Stop being edgy anon, a lot of perfectly competent magick users have gotten into it it using the psych model as a gateway drug. The only failure is to stick to that model rigidly in the face of your results

>>19487652
>The only failure is to stick to that model rigidly in the face of your results

But that's implying that your brain is the source of all those things, under the psych model.

What about a new model?
>There are other beings, spirits, entities etc out there in your consciousness...but it is still your consciounsess. The primordial awareness that has always been.

The spirits aren't 'extra' or 'outside' of you, they are just a number of infinite manifestations from *YOU*.

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This is something I only noticed when I looked back over twice.

Why are so many practitioners overly concerned with hexes, curses and the like? I see it happen all the time where a sorcerer will convince himself he's under attack to such a degree he starts causing himself harm.

Moreover, no one's really been able to curse me in ages. I've heard it attributed to a general lack of attachments, but I was never really sure. I take no particular means of self-defense that would make me so resistant.

Are curses really just something you do to yourself?

>>19487674
I absolutely agree with you, but unless you have an experience that absolutely blasts apart the doors of perception the average person is gonna need a transitional model to decondition themselves from the strict materialism society imposes. The psychological model gets problematic when things start to happen outside of your direct sphere of perception which can be a big pitfall if it makes you freak out, but I think Crowley did the right thing by persevering and keeping his mouth shut

>>19487674
>But that's implying that your brain is the source of all those things, under the psych model.

No, it's not.

Even in the psych model, there's many ways in which information can enter the system without conscious sensory perception.

...such as telepathy.

>>19487674
You solipsistic advaita retards get the bullet too.

>>19487652
>Stop being edgy anon
Wishful thinking.

>>19487677
I've noticed this too.

>>19487701
>The psychological model gets problematic when things start to happen outside of your direct sphere of perception which can be a big pitfall if it makes you freak out

And they keep happening, and happening...especially if you don't have the jump to conclusions reactive mind for it

Lessons n shit

>>19487674
This sounds like Duquette's philosophical cop-out of "It's all in your head but your head is bigger than you think."
Excuse me while I go test the Quantum Suicide hypothesis.

>>19487733
>Excuse me while I go test the Quantum Suicide hypothesis.

Report back

>>19487733
>philosophical cop out
It's not like there are a lot of options when your experiences are well beyond the capacity of the English language to describe. We could all become poets and learn sanskrit but even then there's a reason they call it the ineffable

>>19487677
Some people believe that curses only have power over you if you believe in them. Some go so far as to say if you're aware of being cursed and believe it's possible, you will be most susceptible. Some say the exact opposite. The former is kind of like a low-magick psych-model type of thinking, I guess. The latter is potentially a New Age misunderstanding of the Method of Silence(?). Let these two asses be set to grind corn, and so on.

>>19487749
I mean, Lon is SUPPOSED to be a song writer so yeah, I expect a bit more from a guy who refers to himself as a writer and musician. Because if you are a writer and musician, you should already be a philosopher and a poet automatically. If not it may be time to start using occult venues to start shilling your music...

>>19487707
>2017
>dvaita
>believing in dualism
not this shit again. dualism is literally babby-tier. don't worry, once you get past your entry-level """philosophy""", you'll come around to nondualism. but it would be more fruitful for everyone else if you turned the gun on yourself instead

>>19487677
I assume it's the same thing you see in born again christians or AAfags. You get this idea that you're superior and the urge to do /thing/ is difficult to overcome, therefore everyone else is a sinner/addict with no self control and out to get you. I'm no freudian, but I think it's a classic case of projection.

>>19487749
>>19487757
Also though, I mean yeah, I think he was KIND of implying that "yeah, the spirits are just in your head as much and as little as the computer in front of you is just in your head" and I mostly like the guy...I just find him sorta meh-diocre, personally.

>>19487710
Glad to see it's not just me.

>>19487751
That's the thing, though. I believe in curses, just in practice they haven't had any effect.

>>19487761
I know this is the wrong board but since AA means 2 things I think we're OK. As someone who was convinced by a "reformed alcoholic" that I too was an alcoholic, because I was drinking and doing teenager stuff when I was a teenager, MAN those people get some "Holier Than Thou" business cards when they receive their AA book. Some of the people I knew just looked down on everyone who drank, no matter how much or how little. But of course, to someone in a 12 step program such as that, EVERYONE who drinks does it because they have no self control, and the 12-steppers are the only ones enlightened enough to have broken the bonds slavery to drink! Hail unto Thee who Art Bill W. in his reincarnation, even unto the who Art Bill W of the Big Book, and fuck everyone else because the entire world is made up of degenerate slaves to drink, except us noble few keepers of the gate of sobriety! Pseudo-science is dead! Long live pseudo-science!

>>19487766
>I believe in curses, just in practice they haven't had any effect
It's one of those interesting things that I too believe in at least the possibility of, but haven't really been anxious to find out. As far as I know nobody has ever cursed me. I have thrown off what appeared to be a binding or two but that's about it. And those were based entirely on circumstantial evidence.

>>19487758
>categorizing any philosophy as "baby-tier" or "entry level" to feel safe in your delusion
I see no reason why Advaita cultists need to exist. Your kind really does just need the rope.

>>19487677
>Why are so many practitioners overly concerned with hexes, curses and the like? I see it happen all the time where a sorcerer will convince himself he's under attack to such a degree he starts causing himself harm.

Well that might just be you and who you're hanging out with.

>>19487762
The dude has an image to project as the gentle pope-steward of Thelema so he's soft and poetic and his books are humorous and "beginner friendly"

Thus the bumper sticker sounding phrases

His lectures show he's pretty knowledgeable and experienced in reality

>>19487785
are you that /fringe/-tier "gnostic" or one of those vaishnava dudes? because both of those cults are babby-tier retardations and you should feel great shame for your transgressions against the natural order. why dont you go up to advaita people and start attacking them?

>>19487777
>7777
I made the connection when I was reading the orange papers and getting hassled by cultists on campus while dealing with some unwarranted self importance of my own. They don't want to recognize or integrate their dark side because they're weak shits and it would destroy them, so their insecurity manifests everywhere. Man with hammer, everything nail.

Then there's the whole cult dynamic that plays into it, but with wizards, it's a cult of one.

>>19487818
>They don't want to recognize or integrate their dark side because they're weak shits and it would destroy them, so their insecurity manifests everywhere. Man with hammer, everything nail.

Well put anon. That's basically my problem with most people I meet these days

>>19487807
You Vaishnava and Advaita (and whatever other sectually frustrated) individuals that keep shitting up the board appear about as spiritually advanced as Jerry Fallwell and Billy Graham. The question is, which is which?

>>19487818
Wait were you referencing Alcoholics Anonymous or an Astron Argon lineage? I thought it was the former but now the line is getting grayer.

>>19487677
I agree with >>19487788. Maybe you've got Battler's Endless Nine too? Kidding. It's all in the amount of effort and energy put into it. Like a battery. Even the tiniest spiteful thought can cause an evil eye that can be misinterpreted in a normal person's point of view as a splitting headache.

>>19487828
>retard joins other retards in arguing over retarded stuff
wow it's fucking nothing

>>19487807
>advaita cocksucker crying about "the natural order"
lol I though I would never see the day

>>19487843
High quality post anon, what a wonderful contribution to the thread discussion

>>19487849
>mentally ill "gnostic" cocksucker crying about nondualism
someone should write you a script for a powerful antipsychotic :^)
>>19487853
likewise

>>19487785
>>19487807
For all the advaita/Vaish/Shaiv shittalking I barely see anyone talk about advaya doctrines or shentong and the like.

>>19487317
>I'm mainly going by his introduction to the Goetia and some correspondences I have seen.

I don't know that he ever subscribed to any psych model. He sometimes wrote as if he did, but that could be so much marketing.

If Crowley was somewhat like me, he was likely never entirely sure. But being able to step from one model to the other, at need, is useful.

>But I'm not asserting for how long he believed such things, only that he appears to have definitely subscribed to that model at some point in his occult career.

"Definitely" is debatable.

Among the folks are worked with, the psych model was usually met with knowing smirks or even outright laughter.

>>19487322

Consequently, I never quite trusted him.

>>19487340

Not surprising, since it's a far easier sell to modern humans. For that reason, it says little about what he believed.

And to be honest, if one is still clinging to such comforting tales as the psych model, one has yet to even scratch the surface.

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>>19487835
>>19487761
There's definitely some interesting psychology behind it. But is it really mainly psychology?

>>19487788
Can't argue with that. I tend to dip low when I fraternize with other occultists.

>>19487777
This happens with all kinds of addicts and usually without any reason whatsoever. I got called a sex addict for wanting to try cannibalism, even.

>>19487873
>being able to step from one model to the other, at need, is useful.

I cannot agree with this hard enough

>>19487860
I agree, the shitposting is getting tiresome. At least back up your shit talking with something scholarly like arguments between Vedic philosophers or research about doctrines

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>>19487826
It's a shitty place to be and why I just keep quiet these days and hold all my smug inside. I've been there too many times. Now, I try to remain at least slightly humble and vigilant of my ignorance.

That said, going to college with people who were in elementary school when I was experimenting with drugs and using psychology to dissolve heteronormative mores so I could do sex things with other young men, everyone under 23 is fucking retarded.

>>19487830
>mfw

>>19487843
>"Arguing"
>Joins...in arguing

Argue (v.)
give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.

I don't see where I did that. At all. Care to point out where I made a case for or against either position, or perhaps tried to get others to come around to one of them? Or, maybe, where I was trying to persuade others, as a 3rd party to the "argument" to come around to my stated viewpoint? Or is this the day where we make baseless claims in the face of publicly available contradictory evidence that was *just* presented, and I missed the memo?

You wouldn't happen to be posting in an alchemy thread would you?

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>>19487881
>something scholarly like arguments between Vedic philosophers or research about doctrines
That is a can of worms you do not want to open.

Not even /omg/ is prepared for 1,500 year old Vedantic autism.

>>19487674
>The spirits aren't 'extra' or 'outside' of you, they are just a number of infinite manifestations from *YOU*.

Comforting, perhaps.

>>19487677
>Why are so many practitioners overly concerned with hexes, curses and the like?

Because we know our peers all too well.

>>19487701
>The psychological model gets problematic when things start to happen outside of your direct sphere of perception which can be a big pitfall if it makes you freak out

It should freak you out. That's rather the point.

>>19487733

DuQuette's a joke.

>>19487777

Argle-bargle.

>>19487795
>His lectures show he's pretty knowledgeable and experienced in reality

No, he's not, at least not so much as he pretends.

>>19487830

Heh.

>>19487873
I see what you're saying. Even in reading the Goetia intro it reads more as if he's saying that stuff for the benefit of the reader's credibility or incredulity than stating his own personal belief. Same with A.'.A.'. texts he put out and things, he implies not to even start worrying about what's your "imagination" and what's "real" because parsing them is much less important than actually doing the Work. Idunno why I even made the statement that he DEFINITELY believed anything such as that, as I know the man tried his damnedest NOT to trust the senses and such...I was mainly trying to debate the anon who made the original assertion, but this has been so far derailed by the fact that I chose my words poorly, I gave up on that idea.

>Not surprising, since it's a far easier sell to modern humans. For that reason, it says little about what he believed.

>And to be honest, if one is still clinging to such comforting tales as the psych model, one has yet to even scratch the surface.

Word...BUT I don't understand what was meant by posting that in response to
>>19487340

>>19487902
>Word...BUT I don't understand what was meant by posting that in response to

I was thinking of >>19475769, to wch your post referred.

>>19487853
Clearly, their high quality post is likely a sign they have no idea what is being discussed.

>>19487918
What's being discussed? Maybe 5% of the posts in this thread have any substance to them.

>>19487911
Ah I see. I have dealt with so many Non-Sequitur responses today, both at work and on here, that I really don't know who's saying what to whom in reference to what!

>>19487930
>Maybe 5% of the posts in this thread have any substance to them.
More or less substance than the calculation you used to produce that figure?

>>19487894
>it should freak you out

I agree, I just know an unfortunate number of gifted people who lost their sanity because it was too hard a break

>Duquettes a joke

Eh, I found him helpful when I was first getting into Thelema, although his bibliographies are perhaps the most helpful aspect of his books. There's a distinct lack of public Thelemic figures laying waystones for newbies, probably for a good reason. It is something people are hungry for though.

50 years from now, after the new age has taken hold, Thelema will not exist and Crowley will be remembered as only a fuck-up who ruined himself.

Thelecucks better start looking for a new religion to base their personalities on to suit the changing times.

>>19487894
>>19487943
>it should freak you out

Is pretty dependent on who, where, what, why, how, and when you are, no? The child who is raised on a farm feels at home riding a horse, while the child who never had animals is uncomfortable and nervous upon being hoisted onto a horse's back for the first time.

>>19487957
50 years precisely? I'll be sure to mark it down.

>>19487935
Do you want me to count the number of posts that have substance in them and compare that to the total number of posts so that I can give you an accurate percentage of posts with substance? Would that help your autism?

>>19487943
>Eh, I found him helpful when I was first getting into Thelema, although his bibliographies are perhaps the most helpful aspect of his books.

I missed out on all that, as his public career was after mine. I knew him mostly has a Breeze supporter.

>There's a distinct lack of public Thelemic figures laying waystones for newbies, probably for a good reason. It is something people are hungry for though.

I suspect teaching is like any power: those who desire most to teach are too often the least qualified. I was lucky.

>>19487957

The world needs dreamers, I reckon.

>>19487963
>Is pretty dependent on who, where, what, why, how, and when you are, no?

Yeah, but though your edge and my edge won't be the same, they should both be well beyond our normal experience.

>>19487983
Have you considered they are discussing books, theories, and characters within the occultist world that they've read about? Perhaps it seems nonsensical to you since you've not read the material related to their discussion. The idiom, 'that's Greek to me,' might apply to the viewpoint you are perceiving. Those who have already read the material do not need to explain the bulk of the material itself when discussing specifics.

>>19487996
ive spent ten years reading about occult topics east and west. what im talking about is:
>>19478288
>>19478289
>>19478292
>>19478325
>>19478329
>>19478330
>>19478337
>>19478338
>>19478340
>>19478346
>>19478353
>>19478354
>>19478357
>>19478364
>>19478373
>>19478394
>>19478405
>>19478414
>>19478423
>>19478424
>>19478425
>>19478428
>>19478445
and thats just from the first quarter of the thread. the rest of it is about the same in terms of lack of substance. but no, i must be an uneducated retard that doesnt understand the twilight language of the "advanced practitioners" in the thread

>>19488012
>i must be an uneducated retard
No arguments there.

>>19488012
I assumed you were referring to the current discussion happening in this thread given the time you decided to post.

>>19488017
as if the current discussion is any better

>>19487995
Duquette definitively plays both sides and falls in line whenever there's a conflict or leadership issue, as evidenced by his response to the current James Wassermann political shit show. I suspect he just wants to be as affable as possible to everyone

>teachers
I've become increasingly anti guru as I've gotten older. It's frustrating because the lazy side of me just wants a single guruji that I can dedicate myself to but I've come to the conclusion that everyone has serous blind spots, even if they're highly advanced

>>19487995
>they should both be well beyond our normal experience.

Which is why it is increasingly harder to talk about them. Language breaks down when it cannot describe that which you witness. There are efforts sure but we can only try, imo. You won't get 'it' till you experience 'it' whatever that 'it' might be. Writings will not give you that experience.

>>19488026
How about you explain which posts have substance instead of simply adding a post without substance in an attempt to bring attention to the matter?

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>>19488034

>>19488043
Then you're just being a pedantic useless idiot.

>>19487995
they should both be well beyond our normal experience.
Tru. I was thinking more along the lines of children who raised in shamanic families/tribes or among cultures where divinity is as imminent in daily life as a fart, and that sort of thing. Like where you're "raised" with the spirits as companions. It's not something I was brought up in, but is interesting to consider, to me. Especially the implications of what would normally be the death of 'magical ideas' around puberty and later in most cultures...and how that manifests in cultures for whom the spirits are neighbors, friends, mentors, etc.

>>19488055
indeed

>>19488012

Ten whole years! Imagine that.

>>19488030
>I suspect he just wants to be as affable as possible to everyone

The desire to be loved can be a major obstacle,.

>everyone has serous blind spots, even if they're highly advanced

So it would seem.

>>19488033

Thus the specialized vocab.

>>19488062

I don't know. The shaman./brujo/curandero usually seems somewhat set apart from normal society.

>>19488100
>Ten whole years! Imagine that.
must be pretty shitty being a thousand-year-old dinosaur of a failed magician that still posts on 4chan with a bunch of retards, satyr.

>>19488012
>>19488131
>Ten whole years *reading* about occult *topics*

Fixed it for ya.

I ask this a lot in here, sometimes people get pissed and tell me to go to /div/ which I occasionally do...Necromancy. The last time I asked in /div/ the thread disappear before I saw a response, but in the past I really have not gotten much very good practical discussion about this topic I do not know much about. I'v e only ever done it once. What some people have described to me as necromancy sounds like variations of plain ol' scrying, sans invocation and everything. If anyone here has the chops to hand a few pointers to a young'n' or even point me in the direction of a good book to start with for this, I shall be very grateful for it.

>>19478402
Doubtful unless you have a huge emotional tie to it.

>>19488131
Wait, that's Satyr?

>>19488131

Wouldn't know, n00b.

>>19488147

What is necromancy, to you?

>>19488161

Yep.

>>19488170
Well, I suppose that's the thing I need to specify, eh? I didn't mean to disrespect the /div/ folk as I know many (or *some*) know their stuff. My primary focus right now is ancestor communication, in particular communicating with my deceased grandfather, if such a thing is possible, over some important financial matters that weren't settled when he died. I would also like to get in touch with older ancestors I never met, and lastly just the deceased in general. I don't expect it to be like a phone call, but I'm wondering if there's something similar to evocation in necromancy, and the best way to go about it. I have done one necromantic experiment and actually managed to make *some* kind of spirit manifest, and another person witnessed this...but my lack of knowledge makes me think that, without knowing how the mechanics of the operations and spirits of the dead work, I could be causing all kinds of problems that don't make themselves known at first or maybe ever.

>>19488243

Necromancy was a thing, so there exists a body of literature on it. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with that literature.

Y'know, the I Ching is ultimately a method of consulting one's (collective) ancestors.

>>19488280
Oh? Well I'm glad I didn't just imagine the entire history of necromancy ;-) Can you point me toward, or is there anyone here who does have knowledge of, that literature? Thanks, Dudyr.

>>19488280
Anywhere here know who I can talk to about humans having had Eternal Life Technology (tm) thousands of years ago?

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>>19488289
Check out Jake Stratton-Kent's series. I think it's in the grimoire folder. Testament of Cyprian and Geosophia go into it, tangentially at least. It's a start.

>>19488314
Whoah is THAT what JSK looks like? I-is that a dude?

>>19488289

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy#Further_reading

It's a start. Didn't realize Heptangle published an edition of Bacon.

>>19488311

Unlikely, as it sounds extremely unlikely.

>>19488314

Yep, even if the little bastard can be annoying as fuck.

>>19487563
Yes.
Speaking of I'm gonna TRY to get my ass with a communal letter tonight; went straight from ZHA into my normative class routines.

>>19488322
He's done a ridiculous amount of research and tied a lot of shit together, although I honestly don't like the scarlet imprint crowd outside of what they've published.

>>19488322
Sorry I was trying to summon the spirit of (name related).
I will look into this, thanks again. I was just telling someone in /div/, I used to be repulsed by the idea of communicating with the deceased, but I have recently become interested.

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>>19488322
He may be a cunty bitchy little queen but he's OUR cunty bitchy little queen.

>>19488321
Trust me, he actually looks better this way, compared to youth photos (though, he can butch up now better than when he young, he just elects not to).

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>>19488355
>>19488314
Compare.

>>19488357
Ignore him.

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I must be in a really bad place right now. Anyone else gone back and read entry level classics they avoided like the plague?

>>19488355
>>19488361
Oh my word. I would have preferred to continue on in illusion, picturing him as tall dark and handsome while I read his work. Thanks a-fukken-lot.

>>19488406
It's better to rip the "mysterious handsome occultist" band aid off early honestly

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>>19488406
That's how I felt when I saw Ape. Pic related.

>>19488322
Would Levi have something on this in one of his books, as well? I remember an account of a necromantic ritual he performed, but I don't remember much else.

>>19488412
I was thinking more like
>Studious yet ruggedly handsome academic
But hey, shoot for the stars, &c.

Alright /x/ I'm trying to find a sourcebook on Feng Shui, The actual Chinese lore and practice of it, not what some new age hippy in 1990s San-Diego thinks it is, and that is giving me quite a bit of trouble.
Any advice and recommendations?

>>19488414
Great fukken movie mang. Sad tho'

>>19488414
Uncle Tom-Tom? Do natives have a term for that?

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>>19488424
>>19488424
Never meet your heroes.

>>19488442
>Implying pince-nez Jewish Harry Potter isn't causing boners to rage everywhere, as we speak.

>>19488429
EEY VICTOR

>>19488442
Really both of those cats have luxurious chadlike hair.

>>19488414
At least he has nice hair.

>>19488475
Right? He would look much better if he just buttoned the top part of his shirt.

>>19488170
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/15392646/#q15409976

Did that ever happen?

I have become adept at conjouration and would appreciate anything about properties of magical objects crystals/herbs/metals. Thanks !

>>19488507
Can't you just use your adept conjuring abilities to ask the spirits themselves? I R Cornfuze.

Does anyone know how Christians rectify the ban on necromancy with their eucharistic ritual? Do they just say it's OK because in their eyes he was technically never dead?

>>19488519
>Does anyone know how Christians rectify the ban on necromancy with their eucharistic ritual? Do they just say it's OK because in their eyes he was technically never dead?

Hey hey, this is a qaballistic basket weaving tantric tattva emproium not a christian bibledwelling armchair philosophy forum

>>19488543
But how can I put out my Magnum Opiate if I can't mine /omg/ for practically useless academic trivia?

>>19488512
Conjuration doesn't require spirits nor would angels sit and go through each element flora an fauna till i m happy they've read me my bedtime story.

>>19488562
No you're right...I could conjure a Ham sandwich given the right ingredients, or conjure a pizza with a credit card and phone...I just thought you were saying something substantial, as opposed to laying a trap of semantics. Silly me!

>>19488562
>>19488572
Anyway, I guess whatever you are conjuring hasn't told you about 777 or the Complete magician's tables, so those should help ya.

>>19488572
Guess you're not going to help me with the book then ?

>>19488589
Thank you very much

>>19488599
>>19488603
You're welcome. I'm not even trying to give you TOO much of a hard time, but you're the one who busted in referring to themselves as adept. Usually someone who describes themselves in such a way has access to some tradition's system of correspondences.

>>19488562
>Conjuration doesn't require spirits nor would angels sit and go through each element flora an fauna till i m happy they've read me my bedtime story.

There is literally 1 or 2 goetic spirits dedicated to herbalism/fauna/etc iirc.

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>BA in Magick
>36 credit hours towards the major
What are the courses?

>>19488623
Psychology
Anthropology
Archaeology
Humanities
Art
Philosophy
Religion/world religion
Physics
Math
General chemistry

All at different levels of course, I don't even know where to begin for leveling/naming these.

>>19488623
>>BA in Magick
>>36 credit hours towards the major
>What are the courses?

So core then:
>9 hrs electives in Soc, Anth, Psych, Comparative Religion, or History
> OCC 250, Occultism in the Western Tradition, 3hrs
> OCC 275, Occultism Across the Globe, 3hrs
> OCC 300, Initiatory Systems through History 3hrs
> OCC 310, Modern and Postmodern Perspectives on Esoterica 3hrs
> OCC, 315x, Regional Studies in Contemporary Magic, 3hrs (two required for six hrs)
> OCC 350, The Grimoire Traditions, 3 hrs
> OCC 450, Ancient Folk Magic in Practice 3hrs
> OCC 475, Senior seminar (research and/or publication) 3hrs

>>19488648
>no 300L, Initiation Lab

>>19488623
>>19488642
>>19488648

In what world does a BA require only 36 hours?

>>19488355
>He may be a cunty bitchy little queen but he's OUR cunty bitchy little queen.

Exactly so. I think the cunt's blocked me twice, so far.

>>19488406

Heh.

>>19488420

He might. I don't recall. He did some necromantic work for Lady Bullwer-Lytton (sp?)

>>19488427
>The actual Chinese lore and practice of it,

It's a method of siting tombs.

>>19488482

Can you be more specific?

>>19488507

Agrippa's, Three Books of Occult Philosophy.

>>19488543

For starters, the Mass is not magic, by def.

>>19488658
Belief in literal transubstantiation of bread and wine into flesh and blood doesn't even faintly whiff of necromancy to you? I'm referring specifically to Deuteronomy's prohibition against any form of consorting with spirits/the dead.

>>19488482
>>19488658

No, I haven't walked anyone through it.

>>19488648
Have you also thought through required texts and excerpts on blackboard?

>>19488668

No. Cannibalism, yes. Jesus wasn't just some dead guy, according to the legend. He is/was a living god.

>>19488685
So this:
>they just say it's OK because in their eyes he was technically never dead?

?

>>19488685
How about the invocation of the saints in the Roman Catholic Church? Necromantic?

>>19488668

You should read through the explanation and doctrine of transubstantiation before you make yourself look like an idiot.

>>19488654
That's about average for a BA, but doesn't include gen ed reqs. The usual for the whole degree is 128.

>>19488697
Sorry, I forgot there was one monolithic idea about the mysteries of transubstantiation, which everyone must subscribe to before they are allowed to call themselves Christian. I hope this will redeem me in your eyes, that I may once again be considered worthy of the knowledge you may gracefully bestow upon me, be it your pleasure.

>>19488679
For "core books and not articles"
>>19488648
>> OCC 250, Occultism in the Western Tradition, 3hrs
Agrippa, Levi, Regardie, with articles on Dee and Crowley

>>19488648
>> OCC 275, Occultism Across the Globe, 3hrs
One Tantra, one Afro-carib manual (Frisvold?), and that volume on chinese black magic.

>>19488648
>> OCC 300, Initiatory Systems through History 3hrs
The seals initiation for Gnostics in the Mega, Morals and Dogma, more Regardie or maybe Cicero. Dee and Crowley articles

>>19488648
>> OCC 310, Modern and Postmodern Perspectives on Esoterica 3hrs
Evola extracts, RAW, Morrison/Chaos theory, maybe some flicks or comics or even albums.

>>19488648
>> OCC, 315x, Regional Studies in Contemporary Magic, 3hrs (two required for six hrs)
Depends entirely on region.

>>19488648
>> OCC 350, The Grimoire Traditions, 3 hrs
Lemegeton, Verum, some Nordic sphere texts, Heptameron, Dee.

>>19488648
>> OCC 450, Ancient Folk Magic in Practice 3hrs
Articles, almost all, would need to ponder.

>> OCC 475, Senior seminar (research and/or publication) 3hrs
As needed.

>>19488696

How could it be? You're not forcing answers out of them.

>>19488710

Try to do better, next time.

>>19488697
Catholics have always believed that Jesus Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, that the bread and wine really become his body and blood. Jesus Himself said so at the Last Supper, when He took bread and said, 'This is my body,' and wine and said, 'This is my blood.' Catholics take Jesus at His word.

The earliest Christians did so, too. St. Paul made that clear in his first letter to the Corinthians when he referred to the bread and wine of the Eucharist as the 'body and blood of the Lord,' Jesus Christ. St. Ignatius of Antioch in a letter to the Roman church about 110 c.e. saya "I desire the Bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ...I wish the drink of God, namely His blood..."

>>19488718
You are "communicating to" or "invoking" them. I thought we had established necromancy as a general term involving any communication/communion with spirits of the dead?

>>19488697
>You should read through the explanation and doctrine of transubstantiation before you make yourself look like an idiot.
K
"No mate this is literally the body and blood of Christ in hypostatic essence. Only it deactivates once it hits your stomach because shitting out God is blasphemous."

>>19488728
I believe similar mysteries surround the consumption of the American flag birthday cake.

>>19488722
>>19488728

In what context can either of you clarify that the doctrine of transubstantiation is in violation with what this anon is trying to allude to:
>>19488519
>>19488668

I don't support catholicism in any way but I would be very surprised if this hasn't been argued about and written over before.

>>19488712
Where is OCC 377*, Sabbatic Witchcraft?

*only offered in the fall, field trip to the Mound is mandatory

>>19488740
I guess that'd be regional.

>>19488734
Zozzle irl.

>>19488736
It's not necromancy unless you're forcing the dead for answers. Moreover the vast majority of christological doctrines hold that Yeshua is the temporal incarnation of an infinite and eternal pan-dimensional entity.

>>19488736
As I put in my very first post that posed the question, but everyone is choosing to ignore,

>Do they just say it's OK because in their eyes he was technically never dead?

Which means it's only NOT necromantic becuase of the arbitrary guidelines they throw all over the place, in my personal feelpinion. IF we are going with the definition of necromancy as it is presented in the passage as communication or communion with spirits of the deceased. Because Jesus was immortal, but he was born. He was immortal but he was crucified. He was "never dead to begin with," yet he "resurrected on the third day." Depending on which scriptures you consult I think you can interpret it either way.

>>19488752
So what would the term be for just doing a ritual to gently coax the dead to appear via offerings, etc. ? Because I keep seeing necromancy defined as any communication with spirits of deceased humans, particularly in ritual settings.

>>19488752
>>19488760
>It's not necromancy unless you're forcing the dead for answers.

Well there you go anon.

>>19488752
>>19488763
According to whose definition? Neither Webster nor Oxford define Necromancy in such an exclusive fashion.

>>19488768
What does necromancy mean again?

>>19488768
>According to whose definition? Neither Webster nor Oxford define Necromancy in such an exclusive fashion.
Anon you started this off appealing to a stance against the Catholic Church and their own doctrines. It would look very basic of you to not follow their own definitions and doctrines in order to figure out how they deal with this particular problem.

>>19488779
Literally divining via the dead is what the word means when broken down. That's if we exclude the centuries of context and break it down to its most reductionist form, anyway. I'm just looking for something like "In ritual magick, the grimoire (x) tells us that true necromancy is defined thusly, and all other operations related to the dead are called (y)."

But I know I know, that's a pretty tall order.

>>19488658
>siting tombs
Do you have a reference for this? It sounds fascinating

>>19488786
Well again, it would be very "basic" of you not to reference the numerous times I have reference the BIBLICAL FUCKIN BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY, which, as I must incessantly restate, was the origin for my understanding of the Christian perspective.

>>19488786
>>19488804
Here's the link since I'm sure the cholesterol has gathered in your wrist from chronic masturbation and frozen solid:
>>19488668

>>19488811
So again, what was intended to be a discussion over whether Catholic invocation of the Saints violates a prohibition in Deuteronomy became a discussion over how "Necromancy" is or should be defined. Brilliant.

>>19488815
You talked about necromancy before invocation, bud.

>>19488791
Munich Handbook of Necromancy.

>>19488819
OK...Let's see if I can make this easy...having asked about where to read about necromancy one hour prior to asking an unrelated question about it doesn't seem to have had any impact on the second conversation. I'm not sure how you're managing to conflate the two, but please point me to where my first conversation had anything to do with this post:
>>19488519
Other than "Sharing a similar topic"?

>>19488827
Fukken cool mang. In da mega?

>>19488840
>>19488243
>>19488280

>>19488827
Forbidden Rites contains extracts of the Munich Manual.

>>19488819
>>19488840
I just want to clarify a bit more, the conversation I was referring to as having started out as a discussion on biblical prohibition was this one:>>19488519

See how it's a completely separate post, in no way back-linked to prior conversation? And an hour following it? And how it in no way references the previous conversation? I don't know if I'm getting trolled today, people are just refusing to read more than suits them, or if I'm suffering a psychotic break. I suspect these are not mutually exclusive.

>>19488852
Saints are considered holy and to be in heaven....so how exactly does your view that invocation/intercession work with the idea that its necromancy? Sure if it was any one person that you were asking questions to maybe but if its a saint that is venerated, holy and in heaven how do you think it is necromancy?

>>19488884
Because some of them actually existed and were people who died. But I guess under that same doctrine you're right. Why do you suppose I asked questions? If someone would have typed out a thoughtful response to my very first inquiry, instead of playing this pseudo-socratic method bullshit, it would have probably saved us a lot of trouble. I was mainly trying to start a conversation because people are always bitching about how there are hardly ever on topic discussions. Probably because they either aren't paying attention when they happen, or because shit like this happens, or because some threads are almost entirely shitposts, or whatever.

So now we've got that outta the way, what *is* the appropriate term for communicating or communing with spirits of the dead in a non-forceful manner, on their terms?

>>19488918
I'd put that under the larger header of "Ancestor work" that can manifest in dozens of ways.

FWIW, there are interactions with Saints in Santeria, Umbanda (et al), and Cyprian that are essentially necromantic.

>>19488800
>Do you have a reference for this? It sounds fascinating

I heard it from Joel Biroco. You could ask him.

>>19488923
You can take it all the way to the Orisha and Kongo spirits. They're dead ancestors, just of a nonspecific and more god-like variety.

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>>19488923
>Cyprian that are essentially necromantic.
I mean, since Cyprian is the Saint of Necromancy, and all.

>>19488710
Not every Christian believes in transubstantiation. The Catholic branches believe in that, but other denomination branches do not. There's plenty of information about the Lord's Supper. It likely doesn't need to be discussed in an occult thread. There should really be a Abrahamic general thread or something to contain all discussions related to the esoteric side of those religions.

>>19488942
>other denomination branches do not

Except for Anglican and Lutheran. The rest are degenerations.

>>19488710
However, if I find the verse, I'll post it. Only certain forms of magic are banned in the Bible. I know divination, interpreting omens, tying knots, inquiring with the dead, scrying, and... a couple others(?) are banned. It's not that magic is explicitly banned. It's only certain forms of magic. You can use a pack of tarot cards the same way they played 'lots', but you can't associate any form of divine power with the cards themselves is sort of how that stuff works. The Oracle of Delphi was okay, but the Witch of Endor was a no-go. I really need to write down the verses or something so I have them for reference.

>>19488976
>couple others
"pharmakia"
Use of entheogens.

Sent out a brief-ish Black Ivory email.
I think I tagged everyone (including Palo) but if not HMU.

I'm gonna eat kratom and maybe watch a flick this week has been absurdly busy.

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anybody do any casual teleportation ("apportation[sp?]")?
this lizard spirit visits me and I boop it into other dimensions from time to time.
when I catch flies they just disappear. no blood or nothing. why kill things when they can just piss off?

>>19489042
I just threw out an entire bag of kratom. It was 'White Maeng Da', I think. I couldn't find anyone to take it off my hands, but I'm not rightly sure why it was here in the first place.

>>19489100
Green Bali here.

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Ape's off getting high, post witches.

>>19489113
Check your email when you get a chance, bud

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would someone read my chart?

>>19489250
see
>>19484897
or
astrolibrary.org

Not here.

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>>19489149

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>>19489263

>>19489250
I know you're impractical because look at your chart but if you do post this on Div post the dang visual chart too you piscean sinner

Also you're a hopeless romantic.

Bump limit reached.
New thread.
>>19489334

You post bjork I post this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAq5aZSnf1k