Does anyone else find the exsistance of god bleak and disheartening?

Anything that demands to be worshipped is a prick

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>getting your entire worldview based on one oldass book

No. The creator of all does not equal god. God of the bible is just a butthurt ayy who helped design our genetics.

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>>19428572
Exactly, and its not like he does anything for us anyones. Ive been very depressed for years and for a while ive resented god for letting me become this bitter until i came to the conclusion hes not real. But now with all these end times hype im really scared judgement days going to happen and it will make the conceivable universe infinitly less cool and depressing. I dont want things that gave me hope like aliens and extra dimensional beings to be fake, and i also dont want to go to heaven because it sounds like a dictatorial shithole. And hell doesnt sound all that nice either. I just have to know its not real, id rather not exsist then have a universe ruled by some facist douche looking over a lonely blue speck in a sea of nothingness. Plz help me, oh god im scared

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>>19428586
I hope so, i want the actual creator to be benevolent and say he didnt help me when i was trying to kill myself because the universe was so big he didnt know who i was and that he was really sorry.

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>>19428590
Stop being a bitch. Start real researching, the god of the bible is real but he isnt the creator of all like it claims.

Some things to get u started on real truth about our universe:

Emerald tablets of thoth
Sitchin books
Gnosticism
Youtube leakproject
Annunaki
Epic of gilgamesh
Mark passio and michael tsarion
Tarot

Just to name a few. The rabbit hole is so fucking deep but long story short hell and heaven aee subjective terms, u r the author of ur reality in this life and the next. Dont fall for ancient control religions that still work on iur retarded population today.

>>19428566
you know, you're only really considering the christian "god"
eris doesn't really care what you do, or maybe she does and is sort of just indifferent or mildly amused. hail eris!

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>>19428566
God is your protection from the Abyss. It's the higher self you hide from yourself so you don't fly into the Light/Infinity. It protects you at the same time from falling into Nothing/Abyss.

You can give anything a million names or faces. The point of why it exists remains. Eternal balance. If you feel happy it's because comparatively you can feel equivalently bad. You don't HAVE to feel bad though to feel happy. You can choose a state. Just as life CAN suck, it doesn't HAVE to.

>>19428599
>>19428622
>>19428630

Also listen to Christ, not the edited and subverted bible.

God is within you full stop.

>>19428639
Why should i listen to that bastard when my life is shit and he threatens violence if i dont make my life worse

God is holy and only "bans" sinful things. He rewards & blesses his people. God only designed sex for marriage not for multiple partners / orgies

>>19428675
Fuck the prudish cunt. I refuse to obey a facist jerk like him for denying me earthly pleasures and making me bitter and lonely. I refuse to admit his exsistance

>>19428654
You have other problems I cant help u with then. I posted a few times in here, gave you some research topics and people to start u off
and told you the god of the bible is a basterdized story designed to enslave human minds.

Up to you now to stop being a whiny bitch and research to get the truth and make something of yourself.

Again, almost every religious text and esoteric teaching states that God is within you and in all things. Stop taking one book so seriously to the point of a mental breakdown.

>>19428704
>stop being a whiny bitch
Hey, no need to be fucking insulting. Anyways doesnt god threaten hell if one doesnt listen to him

>>19428566
I dont think youve read much scripture

>>19428590
EEEEEEDDDDDDGGGGGEEEEE

>>19428731
Ive read enough when i was younger. God is scary and evil, and i really hope he doesnt exsist. Why do you choose to believe in him anon. What hope do you find in him?

>>19428735
How the hell is what im saying edgy? Its not like im saying "fuck god im gonna shoot him with an ak-47", im reslly scared of the end of the world and i dont want to die like this and got to the christian afterlife

>>19428754

Woman, I already told you the christian afterlife is flawed, oversimplified and borderline untrue. ffs do some research already

>>19428768
How the fuck do i reserch something that you said is a composite of all religions?

>>19428768
That guy's a fucking dense idiot. Don't bother. Thanks for what you said though, really helpful and gave me some insight. Do you have a discord?

>>19428566

do you even go to church?

>>19428909
Fuck you too asswipe

>>19428566
>he doesn't realize he is God

>>19428566
He's nothing like that actually

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>>19428622
Instead of accepting the Jungian/archetypal truth of past mythologies, you take them fundamentally and use them not to even dispute the metaphysical, but to treat it as "extra lore."

Even dumber than OP.

>>19428566
Exactly. So why follow or believe in such a shitass being? Simple. Just don't

>>19428566
If you find a relationship with "^" you realise
that the old testament is a civic hygiene manual,
the new testament is political rebellion,
and the "real" bible is reality itself.

>inb4 pontificating

>>19428754
yea fear is a controller, thats how they get you to conform to irrational and bad ideas "for the greater good"

You guys need to stop associating the true God with religion.

Religion is a piece of shit designed to control minds, and steal your faith.

Instead of having faith in a religious figure that "will come save you IF..."; Have faith in yourselves and in your own strength.

True God is simply existence itself, incompatible in every way possible with personification.

At least, that's my way of seeing things.

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>>19428566
Hello! It appears that you are trying to come to terms with the fundamental problems of human existence. I am here to emphasize that this nihilistic hollowness you are now experiencing is part of the illumination process, and that you should be proud of having dug yourself into such a deep hole. To go over, one must go under. I would like to stress that the process of facing this with the bravery you are demonstrating can forge the deepest existential heroism, and that you should thrill in the briviledge of facing a large an adversary as you are now, one that is larger than any myth, that myths aim to be a mere reflection of. By experiencing this adversary you are demonstrating a deep authenticity, you are being true to yourself, and with this as a compass direction is all you need to guide you to illumination.

There is a real war between meaninglessness and meaning being fought with flesh and minds, a war of wars, and you are glimpsing the depths of it. The vibrancy and reality of this conflict exceeds mythic confines; God is more terrifying in his nonexistence than you can realize. God is a black hole into which all meaning is cast, who demands to be sought in every painting, the meaning of meaning itself. This God exists as a structure in minds that does the same exact thing it would if it existed, it punishes those who stop feeding it with the horror of knowing that it is a nihilistic meaning-consuming Moloch and an alienation from the rest of the universe which is this meaningless-generator. The archetype of badass hero who fights this is Lucifer. This archetype fits our movement so well, yet even for its mythic grandiosity it is only a sliver of the battle being fought.

And so fight on!

>>19429434
Fedora memes are fucking retarded and not a real argument you shit flinging loser

>>19429440
>Hello I'm going to not get things and totally miss the point because I prefer to choose interpretations of things that make me the most angry and then respond to them as if they are true, because they make me angry.


>I am an asshole. :^)

>>19428566
Come to terms with the world around you, know who you are and what you are and what it is to be man, and that you alone are the master of your fate.

What
>>19429359
said, inner strength and faith in yourself are the only things that are going to save you.

Try to be knowledgeable and seek to understand, and question everything; ignorance is suffering, God is ultimate truth.

>>19428566
Which God, the most popular one or the one you personally know about?

>>19429440
I hate braindead retards like you. Fucking kill yourself you stupid worthless piece of shit
>>19429434
This was brilliant. If you have any more insight on this please do tell

>>19428566
I had to try to not read that in spongebobs voice. Also, youre a faggot. Yeah, life would be better if it were nothing but endless pleasure! Nothing but sex, eating, dancing and more sex! Fuck hard work and responsibility, heaven is probably like North Korea anyway! I hate god grrr hes probably literally Hitler!

You pea brained, knuckle dragging nigger. fuck you.

>>19429549

https://vimeo.com/129609470

https://vimeo.com/218908974

Do what you want. Respect others.
If someone disagrees with you; no need to go full biblical. You realize it was written a long time ago? By humans? It's getting you on to more advanced topics, just wait until randos approach you in the street and ask you very very detailed questions about it to gauge your answers; or torment you while you were trying to do something else. Experience enough setbacks and hey; no-one will give a shit what happens to you.

>>19428566
>>god is a strict facist that bans almost everything pleasurable

god invented penises and clitorises and breasts and g-spot/prostate orgasms and sweaty, trembly, smelly sex. god invented flesh-eating bacteria and bobbit worms and those wasps that lay eggs on live tarantulas so their larva can eat them alive and and everything beautiful and horrible that exists.

>I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.

All the morality stuff in the Bible is the invention of monkeys with monkey-morals. God's moral code would be utterly beyond our comprehension. God doesn't give a shit if you eat shellfish or masturbate or invent genocidal bioweapons. Nothing that could ever happen be outside of his plan. It's like in Tolkien: Eru (God) creates the universe with music, but Melkor (Satan) thinks he can improve the music and ends up fucking it up. But it was all part of Eru's plan, and just makes the song sweeter in the end. There are no discordant notes in the symphony of creation.

>When the stars threw down their spears
>And watered heaven with their tears
>Did He smile His work to see?
>Did He who made the Lamb make thee?

From Blake. The answer is "yes."

>>19429579
Eat shit you no argument faggot. No one can even criticize your god without you going into baseless shit flinging

>>19428566
>heaven is probably like north korea

Best Korea is Communist so I don't think so dude.

>>19428566
god doesn't demand to be worshipped. also, large amounts of ANYTHING isn't good; are you some kind of junkie? largr amounts of food is unhealthy, large amounts of sex is unhealthy, large amounts of sleep is unhealthy... its all about not doing excess.

>>19429715
This

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>>19428685
Earthly pleasures do not compare to complete spiritual enlightement.

>>19429744
Ive been down that path, spiritual enlightenment is shit

>>19428654
if your life is shit that's your fault not God's

>>19430149
Its gods fault because everything shit in my life was out of my control, go fuck yourself

>>19430151
no you go fuck yourself you pussy. you can talk shit to stranger on the Internet but you can't get your shit together? fuck off

>>19430152
I cant grab people and force them to be my friend. Shut the fuck up faggot

>>19428566
>heaven is probably like north korea
lmao

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>>19428566
>actually cowering before the tyrant that is God
>not turning himself into a misotheist and standing up for humanity
>not mustering more people for the cause and planning ways to literally kill God himself during the end of days

>>19430149
>if your life is shit that's your fault not God's
And if things are going well for you, it's all thanks to the grace of God. You're welcome :-)

>>19428566
the only valid interpretation of the Christian god is a chaos god imo

>>19430240
>Not understanding that you need to cower in fear before stranding up and fighting.

Nigga from what you've been writing you must remember that fear. Gotta have lead before you have gold. Give Lucifer an army of spineless cowards and he will transform them into the most courageous heroes because that's what that motherfucker does.

>>19429579
Shut the fuck up you mundane lifeless pain loving fucker, go flog yourself if you enjoy misery so much

>>19429715
>>19429721
>Hurr large amounts of happyness is a sin Durr
Both of you should drink lye

>>19430149
No you stupid bitch it IS God's (dogs) fault because that evil fucker CREATED EVIL

>>19428566
I think God has been lying to us in order to bring us to the right type of civilization capable of utilizing the infinite universe. Humanity has to learn morals by believing in other humans, not just a spirit in the sky telling them what to do.

>>19430247
what are you trying to tell me anon? God just likes me more than that sadanon? I'm blushing desu

>>19429579
>Fuck hard work and responsibility

This sarcasm was the closest you came to an actual argument in your whole butthurt post, but it's a strawman as OP didn't complain about hard work and responsibility

You can work hard and still have a lot of sex

>>19428566
>god makes an entire realm so souls that don't want to do things his way can do their own thing
>gives souls the ability to be the master of their own consequences - no matter how good or bad their result is - so they can feel in control
>god is so personable that even when he gives teachings to every soul that listens, they each feel so special they think theirs must be the true and only message, such that the books written about it seem like nothing else in the universe matters

>I cant be the only one who thinks like this?
Absolutely every single soul in this material realm thinks like you. That's why we're here. In God's realm, everyone and everything is 100% focused on God. Those that don't want that get to come here where everyone is focused on themselves.

>>19430171
>wanting friends
Unless you're a woman who wants someone to talk about shoes and boys with you don't need friends.

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You know, if god seems evil it's probably some kind of demiurge that's telling you he's the actual god while he isn't.

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>>19428566
>>19428675

>Does anyone else find the exsistance of god bleak and disheartening?
>>god is a strict facist that bans almost everything pleasurable
>>things like sex and eating food in large ammounts are not allowed
>>all who disobey go to a fire and brimstone shithole
>>heaven is probably like north korea
>>things like aliens and the massive universe arent real because god would have only focused on this world according to the bible, making the infinite universe incredibly boring and small

That thing described by the Jews is certainly no deity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o43_1Ccjvt4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNK655iUtr0

>>19431290
Whats a demiurge

>>19431242
Hes trying to tell you that it doesnt work one way and not the other. You cant quickly take out god of the equation and blame it on op when things go south, then when things getting better quickly thank god and give god all the credit

>>19428654
Have you considered that it could all be a conspiracy? What if Heaven is north korea and hell is the USA? Kim paints america and its people as such anyway. Satan only has one direct quote in the bible. He questions god.

>>19428590
Holy shit are you me?

>>19428566
OP THIS IDEA IS CALLED GNOSTICISM
>THIS IDEA IS CALLED GNOSTICISM
I ctrl-f’d for it and only one guy mentioned this term and you might not have seen it, so i wanted to tell you. Somehow this knowledge can miss people for years and i want you to learn something today OP
Google Gnosticism and also google Demiurge and you will get an idea of the most punk rock anti authoritarian schizoid religious schools of thought

>>19431309
What's the meaning of your channel and the subreddit? I started to look into it but none of it makes much sense to me

>>19433138
An evil creator deity.

>>19433484
>schizoid
>gnosticism is schizo
Gnosticism is considered more seriously than christianity by professionals of mental health, and they even use gnosticism as a psychological model.
t. Jung.

>>19428566
no you tard basically all those things are the Ten Commandments adultery no killing no disrespecting God no thieving and he forgives everything if you open your heart to forgive it's pretty simple you would to be a pretty Petty person not to get it

>>19428738
How is God evil

>>19435082
God isnt evil. Christians are. Basically christians want the people to go to hell who dont believe in the abrahamoc god because if everyone got to heaven theyd feel betrayed and say "hey thats not fair i was going to church every Sunday for years and now this dick sucking faggot also gets to be here in heaven ? If i knew that id be smokin pot every day and fuck bitches and do nothing .What a load of bullcrap".
Thats about it.

Am I on reddit?

>god is a strict facist that bans almost everything pleasurable
Maybe because those things come at a grave cost beyond your puny imagination.

>things like sex and eating food in large ammounts are not allowed
That's gross misinterpretation. Sex is allowed. Consumption to the point of waste (throwing away food) is morally evil.
I don't think you'd disagree with either.

>all who disobey go to a fire and brimstone shithole
Those who deliberately turn away from the light and intentionally cause evil upon the world with no wish of ever repenting do indeed get rejected by God.

>heaven is probably like north korea
Perhaps if you like North Korea.

>things like aliens and the massive universe arent real
That's pretty self-centered.

Christians dont want people to go to Hell nor does God. God provided a way for people to be saved and that's through Jesus who paid for your sins. If people reject Jesus they will pay for their own sins in Hell. Jesus never taught his followers to hate others but to love them

>>19435134
What happens to south american tribes who never knew jesus ever existed ?

why do people get so upset about ending up in hell when the gates of hell are open at any time
like how is hell even real just walk out the door nigga

>>19435151
Wow in 2000 years nobody has ever thought about that

God is merciful and only he can judge in that situation. In most cases Jesus reveals himself in some way for people to accept or reject him. However those who have access to the bible and have heard about Jesus are without excuse

>>19435167
Im pretty sure a lot of people did.
Are you gonna answer the question or just fart in my face ?

>>19435167

So what's the answer?

>>19435151
In life? Nothing. They lived in ignorance.

In afterlife? We don't know. One guess is they are introduced to God after death, and make their choice there and then, since they never had the opportunity to do so in life.

You'd have to be a special kind of foolish to assume not knowing God automatically condemns you to hell.

>>19428566
sex is degeneracy and depravity, I would see why god would disallow it

>>19435134

This is why the exoteric us garbage. People literally believe this shit, it's sad. An omnipotent creator made sex, drugs, and over indulging feel good - but it will make you go to hell. So while in the material you have to deny earthly desires to get to heaven.

What a load of horseshit. The bible is great, but don't take it literally. It makes no logical sense.

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>>19435205

>>19428566
I, too, don't like the God of Southern American fundamentalists. Fortunately, that's not the only possible concept of God.

God made sex for marriage, between a husband and wife. God didn't make drugs.

>>19428566
>>god is a strict facist that bans almost everything pleasurable
He wants your obedience, in exchange He will give your dominion over creation as a king and a high priest, you will co-rule the universe with Him.

>>19435123
>>19435134
Hes automatically a cruel faggot for not letting people into heaven for pety things. Fuck you

>>19435523
I refuse to be his bitch or slave and be denyed the few comforts i have in life

>>19435537
God isnt keeping you out. You are denying the opportunity because you want to be the Enjoyer of petty things.

The problem is many people love sin and that will only lead you to one place.

>>19435552
He is evil and must be beaten to a bloody pulp for denying us those things that he deems sinful and be forced to reconsider and not think they are wrong
>>19435578
Hes evil for sending us to hell
>hurr durr he doesnt you send yourself
No, he does for denying us heaven, fuck that self righteous cunt

>>19435592
>I want to have the cake and eat it, the post

>>19435545
>rejecting eternal life because of muh pride
Your rebellion won't end well. Don't ever say that no one ever told you.

A question for all christfags on here, why do you want to believe in some all terrible god that burns everyone who doesnt follow his over strict rethoric? I dont get how you can possibly find hope in that.

>>19435677
They are afraid of hell. So afraid that they believe even a shitpost would anger god and send them to double hotsticks. Its not their fault though

>>19435700
How is it not their fault for being fucking stupid?

God is only viewed as "terrible" by those who are wicked. Satan said the same thing people say today. Puffed up with pride, arrogance, with the "Do what thou wilt" mentality which only leads to Hell. It's easy to discern how demons have influenced peoples lives.

>>19435677
When have you last witnessed someone get burnt for not following His over strict rhetoric?
Yeah, me neither.

Now that your loaded question is defused, I can answer your question:
Why do I believe?
I agree with His morality, I deeply believe that Christianity is ultimately beneficial to humanity and thus willingly (yet not blindly!) lend myself to further its goals.

I don't concern myself with His persona - it's not the kind of belief one could have for a deity, like say, Greek gods or Nordic ones.
My religiousness manifests about his works and influences on Earth, whom live, exist and prosper effectively making world a better place.

I believe that. It's probably not what you imagine Christianity to be.

>>19435739
>It's probably not what you imagine Christianity to be.

On the contrary this is one of the Christianities I've seen frequently. The foundations of Christianity lie in the infection of the moral to every sphere of human existence. It's Christianity as political tool, which it indeed is, but at least you aren't covering it up with self-delusion like the God-waifu fags. Your failure is a failure of inquiry, you cannot question deep enough to realize that it is Christianity that has given you this morality, thus you are making a circular argument. It's a failure of imagination that destroys any potentialities before they can even be imagined. There is a question-mark-shaped hole in your heart, and you shoved God in there and called it a day.

You'd make a good priest, you have the nihilistic pessimism required.

>>19428566
>bleak and disheartening?
Yes and no. Yes, if you take the anthropocentric monotheistic deity/lie as the creator of everything, then the world doesn't make sense at all. Why wouldn't it just create hell and skip to the end? Apparently it's possible to be banished from heaven, so given an eternity of time, the probability that heaven eventually empties out entirely constantly approaches 1. The malicious character of hell will either be imprinted on itself forever as a result of people's disgust with the way the Abraham's deity runs things, or it'll slowly erode over time as minuscule mistakes cause every pious person to eventually leave heaven.

No because the character you find in the Biblical deity doesn't seem to explain the world at all, and in all accounts seems to conflict with the very idea of the world. Since the characters don't match, we know that the proposed deity alluded to in the Christian version of the Bible either does not exist or is not the true creator entity.

See, to not be evil, any deistic monarch MUST respect the immortality of the soul. This means the worst punishment they can impose on us is banishment from their domain. As a result, every such locality will slowly improve over time as any defecting entity decides to create a better world outside of the monarch's domain. This happens with human monarchs too, FYI. It's just how the dynamics of free will play out on all scales.

>>19428566
>>god is a strict facist that bans almost everything pleasurable
How many happy selfish people have you seen?

>>19435795
The circular argumentation is there and it'd be stupid not to realize it.
It all depends how deep you want to go with assumptions on the nature vs. nurture subject.

If we can really be indoctrinated so effectively, that it permeates our spheres of self-judgement, why so many turn away from their faith?

And even if we assume that it indeed twists people's morality the way you suggest - can't you see it as a good thing?
Freedom for freedom's sake is a fool's choice. If limiting people from doing evil is what makes the world better, then why hesitate?

I'm open minded. I can imagine events shaping the past in such a vastly different way that humanity were to be better off with a different morality.
But we live in the current, and we have to look for solutions to the now. This is one.

And there is no question-mark shaped hole. My morality is complete - with or without Christianity.
Whether I owe it upbringing, God creator, or coincidence - is irrelevant. In the end we're in harmonious agreement.

>You'd make a good priest
Thank you.

>>19435718
I am not wicked and yet I believe he is terrible. Unworthy of my love. To tell me I am sinful at birth what wrong have I done. I have done no wrong. my only sin was being put here and if that's just cause to burn me in the pits of hell then so be it.

1 John 1:8

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

>>19431309
>imperialcult
didntyou say in a columbine thread that you were a god or demon or something as terrible?

Please offer us you unique insight into this threads discussion

>>19435878
>limiting people from doing evil is what makes the world better
It doesn't, though. If you were there, physically, able to stop someone from killing someone else, then you, in that single act, made the world even slightly better. But that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about control, fake limits, things that can easily break, decay, or disappear in a moment of crisis. That doesn't make the world a better place, it makes the world APPEAR to be a better place.

Similarly, if you tried to save someone for all the wrong reasons, then your selfish reasons for trying to make the world a better place didn't actually make it a better place. Expecting others to do the right thing doesn't actually rely on them being a good person, it then relies on some sort of complex reward system and myriad situational constructs that we can't ever fully predict. Instead of you being a good person, and us being able to count on you to always do the right thing, we have to model you as a reward system, and we have to try to figure out how to "trick" you into doing the right thing. It's a literal waste of effort, corrupts our understanding of truly good people, and doesn't create a *reliably* better world. If we have to readjust our predictions constantly, then we haven't *predictably* made the world a better place.

In this sense, if mass brainwashing is possible, then it isn't an inherently bad things because it shows us that human nature is subject to those problems. However, it can *never* be an inherently good thing, no matter how simple or complex the brainwashed reward system is.

>>19435907
>To tell me I am sinful at birth what wrong have I done
Ah, but here's the in-between lines writing:
The purpose of baptism is 100% ritualistic. It is a ritual of either initiation (when done on a mature person) or renewal for parents (when done on a baby).

What I am saying is: It's not God who tells you you've got a primordial sin. It's religion.
But it's a long story that's not worth bringing up here. What you need to know is: primordial sin is not a sin.

Yup. It's that simple.
It's just a mark, saying who's hasn't yet done the first step.

Both in scriptures and in common literature it is said that unbaptized children are treated differently from sinners in the afterlife.

You're probably one of the smart people who can't find resources not dedicated to unthinking masses.
Instead you find massive flaws in those teachings for simpletons (well, duh) and from that form an opinion on religion as a whole.
It's a shame, but regrettably there's very few "thinking people" resources to be found. Perhaps I should make some of my own. One day. Maybe.

theres angels and demons thats more interesting than a faggot that evolved on mars

>>19435984
>That doesn't make the world a better place
Says you.
Yet those "feeble" things will not necessarily disappear in a moment of distress, so even if there's a fraction of a chance it stops evil, say a murder, from happening, even once, is it not good?
Yes it's control, yes it's fake limits. So what? If you could convince one single person to hesitate before delivering a lethal strike against another man, would you not?
What if you could address much more people? What if you could address many more societal issues?
That's one purpose of religion. Not the only purpose. But a single, really good one.

>Similarly, if you tried to save someone for all the wrong reasons, then your selfish reasons for trying to make the world a better place didn't actually make it a better place.
I am aware of that and hence think on every scale. On personal level? Check. In a small community? Check. Worldwide? Check.
We don't go about converting people. We inform you, and you make your choice.

>it then relies on some sort of complex reward system and myriad situational constructs that we can't ever fully predict
Who's to say what all the convoluted processes you describe is not what makes a person good?
Is goodness intrinsic? Earned? Achieved? Is it not a set of behaviours, some conditioned, some conscious?

Who's to say it's not possible to *make* a person good? Sure, it may take fake barriers and control to achieve it, but all of it is voluntary.

>brainwashing can never be an inherently good thing
I agree wholeheartedly my good Anon.

>Cash rules everything around us
>People literally starving and dehydrating due to insufficient funds
>Theft is a sin that will get you into Hell supposedly
>Try praying to any higher power for money
>Watch as no money is materialized

Feels kek mang

>>19435714
Everyone is afraid on some degree anon. I believe most christians (not the ones here on 4chan) are actually nice people who can find some relief Throughout this religion. If you think about its pretty simple. No matter how big an asshole you are just go to church every now and then confess your sins and you get a firstclass ticket to everlasting paradise. Who wouldnt want to believe in this ? Some other people like you and me for instance search for something with more substance, more meaning and less bullshit. Just let the christian be christian.

>>19436090
>it stops evil, say a murder, from happening, even once, is it not good?
No, not per inherent, because it may have caused thousands to die before it could save even one life. You can't just look at one deed in isolation and say what it is or isn't, because the chain of cause and effect is polluted by the unnatural mental conditioning. It might have saved that one life, but by using complex causes to do so, we have to likewise blame it for all the other things that shared cause affected. When I say that such conditioning only changes the *appearance* of a better world without affecting the underlying truth about the people doing the deeds, that's a constant. That doesn't change if a single life is saved, it ten more are lost, or if 100 are saved. When only the *appearance* changes we lose our sense of what actually makes the world a better place, eroding our ability to react to the real state of the world. Embracing the illusion can only cause us harm on the long term, with the braindwashing only being useful in specific, hard-to-pin-down, situations. We can't say it's a blanket overall good thing just based on one single apparent deed, especially if there are 1000 non-apparent ill deeds hiding beneath the apparent.

>all of it is voluntary
Not if you lie.

>>19436106
>starving and dehydrating
>go into closest religious institution
>explain your situation
>Watch as your prayers get answered and instead of getting money you can't eat, you get food, water, shelter and help in getting back on your feet own again

Money rules the world my ass.

>>19436158
And what happens if I say, up front, that I'm atheist and unwilling to accept their religion?

There are some places that would stick to their faith and try to help me anyway, but there are also definitely those places that won't help if they know you're never going to accept their beliefs.

>>19428566
Gnosticism.
It's legit.
Do read the stuff, do have faith on it.
Do practice meditation and trancework if god doesn't seem to give you gnosis and pray a lot.
It's legit really.
When God gives you gnosis you'll experience divinity within.
And don't worry, God won't slave you away on good works, just don't be a fag.

>>19436155
>it may have caused thousands to die before it could save even one life
A very good point!
That's why all of this has to be planned, careful, calculated, trusted and slow-developed. All things considered from every angle.
It's why Church's hierarchical structure is so sophisticated. To limit potential wrong steps to a minimum.
And also why changes to teaching happen so rarely and are seemingly inconsequential.
They know the stakes very well. Entire world hangs in the balance.

This tradition's been developed over thousands of years, perhaps more if we include its roots.
Just look at history - there were many mistakes on the way. A proof that what you are saying has merit.
Yet they all are being corrected through the years. We no longer burn heretics; now we try and convert them.

Undoubtedly there's still mistakes in current teachings, but it's been refined over millennia and I'd say the biggest offenders are long gone.
Here's to hoping one day all flaws could be eradicated.

>Not if you lie.
That's why we don't.
Lies confuse.

>>19436193
>There are some places that would stick to their faith and try to help me anyway, but there are also definitely those places that won't help if they know you're never going to accept their beliefs.
True. And it makes me sad.

But what were you to do then? Go to the next closest religious institution on the list.
If none would help, then indeed we've strayed far from light.

>>19436210
>limit potential wrong steps to a minimum
There's no (zero) evidence that the hierarchical structure of the Church actually affects the deep causal analysis necessary to actually achieve that.

>Entire world hangs in the balance
No it doesn't. If your tool is brainwashing, then it can only affect the *appearance* of prosperity. It can't affect the real world, the one that exists when all conditioning is removed. If the fate of the world relied on mastering brainwashing, then trust me, the world of man is not worth saving. It's only worthy of any saving if the TRUE nature of man (the one that becomes apparently only when mass brainwashing isn't used) is worthy of it. To rescue a species who can only exist as slaves to some false hierarchy is to create a race of slaves.

If we can't save ourselves WITHOUT brainwashing, then saving ourselves *with* brainwashing doesn't actually save US at all. What it saves is something that is inherently not us, because the basis on which we were saved was one of appearances only. Our inherent selves, our *real* selves, our natural selves, died the day we accepted brainwashing as our savior.

Do not fool yourself with illusions of saving a world made of illusions. Humanity does not need saving, and if it does, it has the power to do so by its own nature. Survival loses all meaning when your life is no longer your own to nourish. Slaves do not live by choice, they live by providence. No ability, no nature, no character they possess can mean anything if it is not used to control their fate.

To speak with false/artificial certainty is to lie. You have done so in this debate already.

>>19436262
>There's no evidence
There's plenty to derive with your own observation.
My last post suggested history as subject. It's a really good start.

>It can't affect the real world, the one that exists when all conditioning is removed.
I disagree. There is no "world with all its conditioning removed". There's world, and that's it.

>general sentiment of second paragraph
You're oversimplifying this.
Brainwashing is just brainwashing. Anyone who's low enough to be affected, fits into the category that is supposed to be affected.
It's to control the mob, the people who don't listen to reason because *they themselves don't use reason*!

You and me, and many more. We're above that. Christianity recognizes that.
We're above brainwashing, we don't need to be scared with stories of spooky devils and hell beyond redemption.
We don't need to be convinced to be good people "to get reward in afterlife". We use reason.

Are we really ridding humanity of it's soul if we're letting the brightest beacons emerge and shine through?
Yes, it's not without a cost. After all we are controlling other people and that's not a nice thing to do.

Just look at democracy nowadays. It's clear as day that mindless masses are too easy to manipulate into having them vote exactly the way you want.
Recent events be evidence.
So is the world better off with those people manipulated by highest bidder, or by someone with a strong moral backbone?
You decide.

>Our inherent selves, our *real* selves, our natural selves, died the day we accepted brainwashing as our savior.
But brainwashing is not for us, Anon. It's for people who don't know any better, and are willing to look up to sky and interpret figures in clouds as signs of divine providence.
Christianity makes sure to not limit anyone's potential to emerge from this mindless mob. Quite the opposite: it excites and stimulates personal growth, and once you awaken - they give you ample opportunities to fulfill your life as a person of reason.

>>19436262
>Humanity does not need saving, and if it does, it has the power to do so by its own nature.
Who's to say Christianity is not our own nature realized, and it is by which means we are meant to be saved?
Or what if we could save it sooner? Is it not worth to end all suffering even a tiniest bit quicker?

>You have done so in this debate already.
That's quite an accusation. Please tell me on what point so I may correct my error.

>>19430240
I never even thought about the potential idea of killing God when he appeared. In this modern world I wonder how many attempts would be made if any so called God were to reveal himself to humanity and proclaim endtimes.

>>19435657
I would rather have a short life that I can enjoy its simplicities, rather than an eternal life where what I am allowed to enjoy is dictated by a petty ruler. Eternal life means very little when you aren't truly allowed to live it.

>>19435592
>Hes evil for sending us to hell
>>hurr durr he doesnt you send yourself
>No, he does for denying us heaven, fuck that self righteous cunt

He doesn't send us to hell. He lets us leave the spiritual realm. God's realm is 100% focused on Him. YOU think that's terrible and fascist, so instead of ACTUALLY being fascist, God says "Fine, here's the material realm where you are in control and you can do what you want and you can be the reason for your results and consequences."

From here, your path is your fault and responsibility. Go to Heaven or go to Hell - that's up to you. Or you can go back to God's realm - but you can't be the Center and Enjoyer in God's realm.

>>19428566
Fatties should burn for eternity. Disgusting creatures

>>19428566
I not only find the whole "If you commit any number of petty, victimless crimes, sky-daddy will torture you literally forever" disgusting, but the fact that literally millions of people think that's perfectly okay and makes their god "good" somehow.

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>>19436625
heathen are not real people theyre satanic robots like a highly advanced computer

thats how i get around it... i dont think god would send a real person to hell

>>19436485
Yeah, cuz when people are presented with "Paradise, but you have to kiss up to the ruler" and "Unending suffering beyond your worst nightmares, but hey, you don't have to kiss up to anyone," people are totally going to choose option B. 1/10 apologetics, m8, try harder.

Your god concept fucked up yo

>>19436647
So you're just as shitty as slavers, then. "I don't have to feel bad because they're not REAL people" is a fucked up worldview, and you're a piece of shit for holding it.

Okay so
Q: Why did god make the universe?

A: It was his hobby!

>>19436647
This.
I've noticed the more Christian types tend to make better conversations and most of us have seen angels at some point, whereas most non-Christians never have.
Don't be scared if you think you haven't seen one because of course many have seen angels without knowing it. I didn't know I was seeing one for a whole decade until I asked a priest about it.

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>>19436674
not really jesus teaches treat all men good

love your neighbor etc even if theyre your enemies

but i actually believe they arent real ultimately

god is perfectly ok with killing 99.9% of the population in the days of noah

theyre the seed of the serpant

>>19429434
I hate braindead retards like you. Fucking kill yourself you stupid worthless piece of shit
>>19429440
This was brilliant. If you have any more insight on this please do tell

>>19436674
>Plants aren't real people
>Dogs aren't real people
>Monkeys aren't real people
Why is so hard to believe anything further isn't real people either?

>>19436660
You are still confusing what I am saying with Chrisitan dogma about Heaven and Hell. Heaven and Hell are part of the material realm, and are not eternal. I am talking about the spiritual and material.

>people are totally going to choose option B
Every single one of us already DID choose this, and we are still continually choosing it every moment. Again, the only thing keeping you out of the spiritual is your desire to be the Center and Enjoyer.

I cant use my overwatch fleshlight 5 times a day? God is a big meanie.

Obsession with cummies and artificial pleasure is what is making your life shit. You need to transcend material pleasures that is the point of spirituality. Dependence on these things will make you weak. You should be worried about what you are doing to yourself not what god is going to do to you.

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>>19436690
like an angel in human form

the bible does say its possible

Hebrews 13:2
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

>>19436702
Welp, I'm done with the internet for a few days.

Just.

>>19436744
Mine appeared to me in visions, but I had no idea it was an angel until a priest told me. There are 7 groups of lower angels and each has a preferred method of manifestation. I could see people meeting angels physically and having no idea too. I think they like it that way when humans can't tell, so the human decides to listen to them by their own free will instead of "I'm an angel, so do what I say!"

>>19436690
What did the priest tell you that confirmed communication with a corporeal angelic entity? (Don't take that as a dickish question, I'm seriously fascinated.)

>>19428566
I like to think that god is just indifferent to us to a certain degree. Like he needs us for something. Maybe he feeds on our spiritual energy or some shite.

Like maybe he'd intervene if we were about to cause our own extinction. But aside from that, I don't think he cares about us as individuals, if he exists at all that is.

~

>>19436871
There are several tests.
>Does it pray?
>Is it attracted to Christian symbols?
>Do it's predictions come true?
>Does it improve your relationship with Christ?
>Does it simply appear to you or does it try to possess and control you or someone else?
I'm sure there are more tests. I'd act ask a priest too if you're still curious.

>>19436911
Important thing I forgot to mention.
>Does it simply appear to you or does it try to possess and control you or someone else?
If it does the latter it's a demon.