Who was Jesus really? Divine accounts of him were not made until

he became a very powerful tulpa when people started the myth

>>19201071
was told once his real name was Yeshua. Was told there are actual historical counts of him, (not from the bible). Don't know how much truth there is to it as i've never looked into it, but there you have it.

He was the first meme. He had all his bros after his death to tell a bunch of bullshit to make him seem like a god but he was just a conman.

Jesus attempted to bring salvation and the religion of the Jews to the gentiles. He ultimately wanted what he believed to be true knowledge to be accessed by all, and to break down societal divides.

His message was instead usurped by those who wished to keep the status quo

>>19201071
Nobody knows who he really was/

>>19201148
Why change the name?
Kendrick Lamar references Yeshua when he raps "I transform like this, I perform like this / Was Yeshua's new weapon"

>>19201071
>Why is there absolutely nothing about his life during the period when he was 13-30 years old?

He discovered internet porn at the age of 12. Toke some time off. Then at the age of 30 he founded 4chan. After creating /×/, he was convicted gubmint was using NASA to debunk His 'when I come back on a cloud , the whole world can see me' trick by lying about earth not being flat.
He went to a gay bar to find some 'friends ', where He find 12 guys who were willing to stand behind Him. The rest is NOT history.

>Did Jesus have children?
Most imaginary friends don't.

>Was he just a religious conspiracy to create an ultimate martyr to rally behind?
Protip: you can't.
Is there any other reason why this looser ends up as being the topic in churches?

Nobody talked about him for 30 years!

Because they were hunting down (like dogs) everybody that knew him or would DARE to speak his name.

Even speaking the name of Jesus was a death sentence.

If anything, they tried to ERASE him, and were not successful.

No one here ever brings up the possibility of Jesus being a bad person. Maybe he was killed for a good reason? For all we know, Jesus was the original Marxist and maybe Constantine used his death as a political weapon, coining the whole religion as a form of control.

It's plausible.

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>>19201071
>Who was Jesus really?

Probably a Divine King with some extra made-up miracles added in because of the murderous fraudulent miracles of the Hebrew text.

Pharaoh was believed to be one with Osiris ("I and the father are one") and escort his followers into the afterlife ("My sheep know my voice, they follow me and I give them eternal life"). The gospels sound very much theologically like a description of a Pharaoh with the exception of the miracle healings and raising from the dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzLZMJxgWk4

>>19201273
Yeshua is a hebrew name, a variation of Yehoshua (Joshua), meaning "YHVH Saves". The different spellings depend on the language, since Greek, Hebrew, and Latin letters don't transliterate 100%.

>>19201672
You're back? I hate to say this, but seeing a regular here above the newly spawn of tripfags makes this board a little better. Don't disappear on us again broski

>>19201071
>>>/his/
>>>/lit/
>>19201672
>Still shilling even though the NT fulfills 543 prophecies that are in the OT
Go away, nobodies buying your autistic Germanic fanfiction.

>>19201508
His offical charge was "inciting a riot."

>>19201071
You guys know who Jesus was. But keep telling yourself otherwise

13 at the table. Jesus was really Lucifer, a false messiah. Lucifer is the bringer of light, he appears holy.

With all the lies in history, I don't think God would blame me for only believing in him out of carefulness.

>>19201695
>books created by people with vested interest to fulfill religious prophecies fulfill religious prophecies

you don't say

Is he mentioned in any Roman records anywhere, or in any other sources of the time besides the christian texts?

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>>19202058
With all the lies in history, I don't think God would blame me for totally not believing in him out of carefulness.

>>19201071
He is God.

Christ is first and foremost a mythologycal representation of the hero, the perfect man. It is unlikely a real physical human being was ever as Good as Jesus Christ. perhaps there was a man named Yeshua who was exeptional, but undoubtedly people built upon his story with other ancient heroic tales and myths. IE the tale of Horus and Osiris, Mythras etc.

>>19201071
pretty accurate description of gods plan

perform miracles, heal and cast out demons

allow himself to be murdered, say its to save all humanity

have people account for his ressurecting.

creates a globel phenomenon

Christ is nothing but a story made up to give people hope that there is something after death.

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>>19201819
>His offical charge was "inciting a riot."

According to the gospels the charge was being the King... It was the "scribes and pharisees" who spent all their time inciting riots in Jerusalem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyLfF5qpV8Q

>>19201071
It doesn't matter if he was real or not.
The effect is here and apparent
If only one human refuses to pull a trigger because of Jesus it was already worth it.

>>19202237
Nah. Most of Christianity's teachings relate to Wordly things, not death. Heaven and Hell are very real. They are of this world. Look at the homeless addicts in the street and tell me hell isnt real. Christianity tells a story. But unlike most stories. The story spans eternally, across time. The story of Christ is meta-real.

>>19201071
Christ is a cheater and a liar.

>>19202253
this.

he was a nice Jewish boy who wanted to kick the money lenders out of the temple with a fucking whip
and his disciples carried knives around and weren't afraid to cut off an ear if they go fucked with

fortunately the Romans of the time had a very low tolerance for Jew trickery and they nipped that in the bud.

Probably for the best that they nailed him up before he and his crew started a blood bath.

>>19202262
t. Atheist. Are you gona say Han Solo was a cheater and a Liar also, despite the fact that he has been a source of (moral) inspiration in your life?

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>>19202290
>fortunately the Romans of the time had a very low tolerance for Jew trickery and they nipped that in the bud.
>Probably for the best that they nailed him up before he and his crew started a blood bath.

Gospels are pretty pro-Roman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUnk0-7gbwM

If you wish to know the nature of Jesus, think about why he couldn't perform miracles among people who knew him.

>>19201071
>Was he just a religious conspiracy to create an ultimate martyr to rally behind?

no, there is a monotheistic creator to the soul who is literally the magic sky wizard everyone likes to blaspheme. everyone has a soul, regardless of whether they believe in it or not, or whether you believe in it or not.

Jesus Christ is the Son of that monotheistic creator, and a calling card that the Father loves us so much he is willing to sacrifice his son in our place for our transgressions against universal/spiritual law, which the punishment of is death. Imagine you and your friend are at the store, and you sperg out and shoot the clerk in the face with 6 hollow point bullets while the cops are sitting right outside, you're about 3 minutes away from getting arrested to face capitol punishment. your friend tells you to hide in the bathroom, and give you the gun and that he'll face the eletric chair for you.

with that being said no one fails to survive death

in many religions you sacrifice your children, or animals to a plethora of things, to recieve a further amount of things skinwalkers in the native american tradition sacrifice a loved one to recieve ultimate power in dark arts. in Christianity, the Father sacrifices his son to you, so that you may have eternal life, and dominion over material and spiritual realms. He is a human sacrifice dedicated to man, from God.

>Why is there absolutely nothing about his life during the period when he was 13-30 years old?
there are, its called the gnostic gospels, they also cover the first 12 years as well.

>Did Jesus have children?
I'm led to believe so.

>Was he really the Son of God?
Yes, we all are sons of the most high, Psalm 92.

>Or was that just a clever retcon and PR move the early Church orchestrated?
no, the PR move was removing the mystic elements and mystery of Christianity.

>>19202353
bro you are stuck in the literal interpretation of Christianity. Do you think it would have been as influential as it has been if it had been only literal?

>>19202253
As an atheïst I agree, still Christianity generates stupidity, therefor it is dangerous and should die out.

>>19202255
Nah, infrastructure has changed to much. And now with the internet, Christianity has lost it's place.

>>19202303
Nope, I am saying Darth Vader is the only hero of Star Wars. And he controlled and knew the force better then Luke (for now...)

Jesus ruined my life and left me with no choice but to kill myself.

>>19202366
But Darth Vader repented in the end, and changed. One of the central tenants of Christianity.

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>>19202223
get the fuck out with your zeitgeist misinformation

>>19202371
Ill say this. Most Americans interpretation of Christianity sucks as. Seems to tell people to stop thinking, and follow the literal interpretation of the Bible. Dont think this system of thought is representative of what Christianity is.

>>19202377
So Darth Vader is a good guy. And he is cool. He is way more fun then jesus.

>>19202397
point is, even the most evil of humans have the capacity to change. When i realized this i found God. We all have our own spiritual journey. I hope you'll see God one day..

>>19202422
Seen it, tried it and am sure it was a waste of time and effort. Not once did it made me happy.
Knowing god is a manmade hoax gave me all the peace in the world.
And then when I started the LHP journey and started to actually read esoteric literature I found all answers I ever asked for.

>>19202366
>As an atheïst I agree, still Christianity generates stupidity, therefor it is dangerous and should die out.

>the idea that you're obligated to be a good person because you're a direct creation by an all-powerful being who has counted the hairs on your head is a dangerous idea that needs to die out.

>>19202389
where do you idiots even get this stuff?

>>19202371
explain.

>>19202347
>Gospels are pretty pro-Roman.
for someone who thinks they know a lot, you sure know nothing.

>>19201314
Frontal.
Lobe.
Brain.
Damage.

>>19202476
>Seen it, tried it and am sure it was a waste of time and effort. Not once did it made me happy.

this is what I like to call a dirty jew lie.

>Knowing god is a manmade hoax gave me all the peace in the world.

so you think creation is a random accident?

>And then when I started the LHP journey and started to actually read esoteric literature I found all answers I ever asked for.

in all honesty, the left hand path has some sick and twisted draconian shit to it. the actions in itself hurt the soul instead of cultivating it. the fruits are rotten.

>>19202397
>So Darth Vader is a good guy. And he is cool. He is way more fun then jesus.
>>19202377
>But Darth Vader repented in the end, and changed. One of the central tenants of Christianity.

Darth Vader has always been the good guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGlwr44hsoE

>>19202476
Why is it a hoax? would you call fictian a hoax? or is it an extraction of moral truths, refined into stories? I was raised in a christian school. Loved the biblical tales until my teacher told me there was historical for Jesus being real. then i started looking at everything from the bible as historical truth, and obvs lost my faith. After descending into nihilism for years, i finally found someone making a case for Christianity.Once you realize Christianity isnt about fact but rather a guidebook for how to behave in the World, you'll not be as cynical.

>>19202510
>the idea that you're obligated to be a good person because you're a direct creation by an all-powerful being who has counted the hairs on your head is a dangerous idea that needs to die out.

Ignorant fuck. You know that's only part of the story. Christianity start to fight science. It's is out to keep people dumb. That's why it is dangerous.

>>19202510
>in all honesty, the left hand path has some sick and twisted draconian shit to it. the actions in itself hurt the soul instead of cultivating it. the fruits are rotten.
Only to those who follow blind. The bible tells you to follow the bible blind. Esoteric literature tells you to not believe anything but test everything and still stay skeptical. Meanwhile it helps you to develop and practice critical thinking.

>>19202569
Christianity's central tenant of Truth is what caused the scientific revolution in the first place. Then materialistic science is what caused the bloodbath of the 20th century. We need to find a justification for God outside of the scientific landscape. Otherwise we will descend into genocide once more.

>>19202586
the Bible tells you to tell the Truth.. That means also if you disagree with the Bible.

>>19202519
Read the bible, it demands people to take it as truth, blindly. Very dangerous for many people, therefor it should be debunked all together.

>>19202605
But it does contain Truth. I agree, people should be able to criticize it. But you cannot justifie your interpretation with the fact that the bible has been so powerful a philosophy across twothousand years. How would you explain the Chinese voluntarily becoming christian?

>>19202587
Nope, we need a better way of teaching empathy. Creating fear failed. Religion failed.

>>19202605
just watch this, or at least a part of this. Its what convinced me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5_-pfqFGJI&t=2s

Jesus was a random dude like you and I who had a mystical experience and discovered he was God, as we all are.

But since those kind of experiences make you a little psycho he went around saying he was a special snowflake, and people believed him and then christianity was born

>>19202617
How do you explain Christians becoming Atheïsts, Satanist or Muslim volunterly?

>>19202635
Fair point. Wasnt a good argument. However, Would you at least accept that Christianity was the building block for Western values like Individualism, Spoken Truth and responsibility?

>>19202510
>the idea that you're obligated to be a good person because you're a direct creation by an all-powerful being who has counted the hairs on your head is a dangerous idea that needs to die out.
I think the other anon was talking about religious nutbags and zealots.
Christianity 1000 years ago was muck like the Muslims today. Killing people in the name of religion.
That shit is not cool

>>19201508

Jesus was not a Marxist all abrahamic religion is centered around capitalism/property ownership

>>19202586
the bible promises to give what eyes of angels have not seen, what rulers have not heard, and what has never arisen in the human heart.

>Esoteric literature tells you to not believe anything but test everything and still stay skeptical. Meanwhile it helps you to develop and practice critical thinking.

here's 2 verses of the bible that tell you to do exactly that

1 john 4:1 Proverbs 18:13
>He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.

>Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

>Only to those who follow blind.
Studying the left hand path is what led me to realize there are people who sacrifice and abuse children. the left hand path is destruction of empathy.

>>19202569
> Christianity start to fight science

well, the majority of science ends up being a dirty jewish lie in the first place.

the only thing that's ignorant is you for you ignore the whole spiritual side of life.

>>19202605
it actually demands you to try to debunk it

>1 Corinthians 10:15 You are reasonable people. Decide for yourselves if what I am saying is true.

>John 20:24-29 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples were saying to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

Proverbs 15:12
Mockers resent correction, so they avoid the wise.

Proverbs 19:25
Flog a mocker, and the simple will learn prudence; rebuke the discerning, and they will gain knowledge.

The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.

>>19202667
Yes. IE individualism.

>>19202657
No, Greek philosophy might have done a way better job. Christianity killed too many people who thought different to an extent Christianity seemed the only way. Those who actually know Greek philosophy know it way more useful and wiser then Christianity. Christianity is merely to keep the masses in control.

>>19201071
I recommend reading Deism and the Human Jesus by John Lindell
It's free and offers a rational view on God and Christ.

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Anyone in this thread interested in messiahs and the cultural role they play would do themselves a favor by reading Dune. The concept of a messiah is the pivotal force to the story and if you should choose to read the next two(or more) books in the series, it's expanded upon masterfully.

Not claiming to know the truth in any way because I recognize that the average person only ever sees a small fraction of reality; but it seems apparent to me that messiahs can have an extreme sway over ideas and cultures if introduced and presented int he right way at the right time. The story of Jesus is only one of the most recent tellings of this story. Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Greco-roman cultures among tons of others all have their versions of the story dating back farther than the new testament as well as the old. It's arguably very possible that this is more of a grand trope that gets repeated over and over through different generations, than any kind magical event. Tropes in storytelling are often employed with a specific intent in shaping the audiences idea of whatever it is they're interpreting. This is essentially done to control the line of thought of the audience in order to suspend their disbelief and immerse themselves into the story being told.

tldr; Read Dune. Jesus, real or not, is a figure used to tell the same story that's been passed down from culture to culture since time immemorial .

>>19201490
Kek you clearly know nothing about history do you.
Educate yourself, read some books about early christianity and then come back.

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>>19201153
Brilliant.

>>19201508
Another one who doesn't bother to read most basic book about the subject.
I'm not saying that your thesis "jesus is bad" is wrong but read about political context of his death

>>19202694
Can you name Greek philosophers who have sown the seeds of those ideas? I know Plato heavily inspired christianity, but even though he was one of the first Rationalists, he was wrong on most things..

>>19202698
I maybe should have mentioned that once a person is immersed in a story and believe their feelings about it(whether or not they believe the story) it becomes much more likely they'll glean some part of the intended message.

If I had to boil my point down to something brief it'd be that there are many ways to convince people to believe in certain tings and act in certain ways. Some of those successful ways are mimicked in a way similar to how one artist might emulate another.

>>19202629
I studied psychology myself, among other fields. Still, religion as a whole failed. Catholic church and it reputation proves it. Islam and it reputation proves it. Hindu and the poverty and trouble in India proves it. Time to come up with better ways.

>>19202657
>Would you at least accept that Christianity was the building block for Western values like Individualism, Spoken Truth and responsibility?
Not that anon, but I don't. Plato's The Republic was espousing such ideals during the Second Temple Era of Judaism - around 300 BCE. That's centuries before Christianity was even a concept.

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>>19201071
k

>>19202753
Either way, if thats the case why think so disparagingly of Christianity? If it espouses the right ideas, regardless of original source, surely its valuable..

>>19202366
>Christianity generates stupidity, therefor it is dangerous and should die out.

Can we think of any other items to substitute for the word Christianity which would have the sentence still be true, but the author would likely reject?

>The Internet generates stupidity, therefor it is dangerous and should die out.
>Democracy generates stupidity, therefor it is dangerous and should die out.
>Capitalism generates stupidity, therefor it is dangerous and should die out.

I could keep going.

>>19202687
>Studying the left hand path is what led me to realize there are people who sacrifice and abuse children. the left hand path is destruction of empathy.
There was a thing like pizzagate. Did not looked into it, but, was it esoteric literature that showed you that?
In the news there are reports of abused children way too much. That also is not esoteric.
At least 1 out of 10 killers read or have read the bible. Those that single fact make the bible a book for killers?

I don't need a bible for spirituality. I write, play music, travel, study nature and enjoy art and philosophy. I learn value in real life, not by thinking or believing God is the only answer to all questions. Using God for all answers would even be an insult to God if he was real. Discover depth in nature. Don't go God did it. That's like, my mom will cook and never being able to cook for her or teach your own children the family dish.
Or ask your brother to fight your fight because you refuse to learn fighting skills. God is not the answer, only the question.

>>19202764
Christianity teaches people to follow commands and do only as they are told, else be punished eternally. It teaches people to do what is subjectively good so that they can be rewarded, instead of being kind because one understands the universal nature of suffering. The bible condones genocide as an acceptable way to handle non-believers. Any god willing to erase a people for not accepting his reign doesn't really sound like the loving type to me.

The value in christianity is control by way of fear. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's not what I think of as the "right ideas".

>>19201071
>Why is there absolutely nothing about his life during the period when he was 13-30 years old?

The Urantia book
Paper 122. Birth and Infancy of Jesus
122:0. Paper 122. Birth and Infancy of Jesus
122:1. Joseph and Mary
122:2. Gabriel Appears to Elizabeth
122:3. Gabriel's Announcement to Mary
122:4. Joseph's Dream
122:5. Jesus' Earth Parents
122:6. The Home at Nazareth
122:7. The Trip to Bethlehem
122:8. The Birth of Jesus
122:9. The Presentation in the Temple
122:10. Herod Acts
Paper 123. The Early Childhood of Jesus
123:0. Paper 123. The Early Childhood of Jesus
123:1. Back in Nazareth
123:2. The Fifth Year (2 B.C.)
123:3. Events of the Sixth Year (1 B.C.)
123:4. The Seventh Year (A.D. 1)
123:5. School Days in Nazareth
123:6. His Eighth Year (A.D. 2)
Paper 124. The Later Childhood of Jesus
124:0. Paper 124. The Later Childhood of Jesus
124:1. Jesus' Ninth Year (A.D. 3)
124:2. The Tenth Year (A.D. 4)
124:3. The Eleventh Year (A.D. 5)
124:4. The Twelfth Year (A.D. 6)
124:5. His Thirteenth Year (A.D. 7)
124:6. The Journey to Jerusalem

>>19202813
I suppose one would only know what God means once he finds Him. Also what is music but the layers of Life extracted into song? This is similar to Christianity; the struggle of Life extracted into a singular person. Jesus Christ.

>>19202829
Also what is music but Lucifers domain?

Yahsua Bar Yoseph (Jesus, Son of Joseph).
He was the son of Mariam (Mary) and Yoseph (Joseph) born out of wedlock.

He studied religions in his youth, most notable the Hebrew Scriptures and the Zoroastrian Avesta, the latter being related to Indo-European cult teachings, hence why Jesus' teaching seem very similar to those of India (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism).

He attempt to unify communities in the Middle East via philosophical preaching (via parables).

After his death, he was considered a martyr and was later deified by local (common) and history was re-written to fit this narrative.

>>19202818
dont you think if you become lazy and without morality, you will end up in hell, within your OWN life? On the universal nature of suffering. The Christian notion is that the only solution to that is to reduce suffering. And one can do so by speaking the truth. The Old testament is certainly tribalistic, and hostile towards other tribes. If you are referring to the Noah story, God is simply the force of Nature there. It says dont be arrogant and lazy. prepare for the Flood. The Flood will always come. This truth stands across time. Christianity controls by fear yes. but also by hope. I think youll find having both the fear of failure and its consequenses, and a goal to strive towards is the best motivation.

>>19202764
You're asking me personally? My critique of Christianity is this:

Christian thought is that the soul is created, then exists eternally. There was a time "before" that I did not exist. We can take this "before" time all the way back to the first humans. These humans - before I ever existed - performed an act that was deemed wrong. This act has tainted the rest of humanity, such that we are judged for THEIR acts. Now, 30 years ago or so - my soul was created and put into this body. At this point, God was unwilling or unable to remove this thousands-year-old taint so that a completely new, never-existed-before person is born already judged to be wrong and bad.

For me, this leads me to only two conclusions:
God is inherently unfair, and is punishing people for an act at the beginning of time that took place before any of us even existed. That when God created my soul He was either UNABLE to remove the taint, or DELIBERATELY placed that Hell-bound curse on me.
OR
God has nothing to do with the creation of my soul/body/life. Thus, I owe Him nothing.

As for "the right ideas," I disagree. The ethical considerations of Christianity can be had without the dogmatic or detrimental ideals. And I think what I delineated above is a central aspect to Christianity that cannot be divorced from it's core philosophy. that from the moment we're born "all have sinned and fallen short of the judgement of God."

But again, why have I sinned from the moment of birth? Because I'm somehow due punishment for the act performed thousands of years ago. Because God REFUSED to create my soul without that taint...or was UNABLE to remove the curse.

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>>19202813
>but, was it esoteric literature that showed you that?
pic related. the left hand path has some pretty sick and twisted shit that goes into it.

>In the news there are reports of abused children way too much. That also is not esoteric.
you can reverse engineer from Alister Crowley's work that ritual child abuse is the fountain of youth, its quite literally a euphemism for a slitting a childs throat, and drinking the spurting blood that comes from the jugular like a fountain. magic is dangerous as it pretends to be mysticism.

>At least 1 out of 10 killers read or have read the bible. Those that single fact make the bible a book for killers?

this is probably the most dishonest and non-relevant argument I'll ever see.

>I don't need a bible for spirituality
nor did I claim that people need the bible spirituality.

> I write, play music, travel, study nature and enjoy art and philosophy
none of these are a good substitution for meditation, and prayer. Nature in itself is inherently violent, brutal, tragic, unforgiving, there's nothing beautiful about a lion targeting calves for easy meals. the material realm in itself is a hoax. most philosophers are tragically wrong.

>not by thinking or believing God is the only answer to all questions. Using God for all answers would even be an insult to God if he was real.
facetious, Look up Tesla's summary of finding God through lightning storms and his cat.

>Don't go God did it.
to put his thoughts into a small summary, God created the ability to create lightning, and Tesla figured out how he did it petting his cat, and understanding that clouds are the same equation/reaction with much more power,

>That's like, my mom will cook and never being able to cook for her or teach your own children the family dish.
Or ask your brother to fight your fight because you refuse to learn fighting skills.

basically the stance you take when you refuse the creator of your soul. is English your second language or something?

>>19202729
He was beautiful wrong most of the time. Still, philosophy does not hold truths. It teaches critical thinking, and in the Greek situation, discuss every aspect of life in great detail, with wisdom and an open mind without bringing in fear for death of punishment by God or some Satan making you do things.
Never believe a philosopher. They never needed you approval. They just think out loud, in a way that makes you respect the intellect. Plato was so wrong, but so component in making clear what was on his mind, and the logic he used was of an intelligence unmatched by most. Then and now. He just did not have the information we have today.

>>19202813
>God is not the answer, only the question.
God answers the questions in the bible, it is quite literally the word of the creator of your soul, we quite literally have the same creator of our souls whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

>>19202855
Once again, your approach to Christianity is too rational. Look at original sin this way: Every human has Evil within their heart. This is true. The many great philosophers of our time and before have said: the line between good and evil runs between every humans heart.

>>19202829
Music isn't the same as a song. They mix well together though.
Life would be less of a struggle without the fear for God, suffering for being called a sinner or thinking you should be good to every person to go to heaven.

>>19202879
>Every human has Evil within their heart.
Why? Why did God put Evil in our heart?

>>19202851
I'm not arguing that there's a lot to be learned from the stories. Most of them were borrowed from well established tales with what should be clear morals. I agree with nearly everything you said in this last post.

When people still hold onto the jihad-esque beliefs of old religions people will still act on the same hate it's always stirred up. Just look at what religion is doing to the modern world. It's not a pretty sight. From my stance, the real hell is getting lost in your own ignorance even if that ignorance is granted to you by seemingly enlightened sources. That is to say, most christians take the good book as direct fact rather than fanciful stories of (often but clearly not always) worthwhile morals. That is dangerous in itself.

There are other effective ways to sway people to not be assholes. Ways that don't involve in-knowledge to comprehend and apply it's ideas of better living for all.

>>19202898
Again. literal interpretation. God didnt put it there. It is there. I hope you realize this. It is there. Act out your life with this knowledge or dont at your own peril.

the jews killed him

"And remember when Jesus, son of Mary, said, o children of Israel, surely I am Allah's Messenger unto you fulfilling that which is before me of Torah, and giving glad tidings of e. Messenger who will come after me. His name will be Ahmad. And when he came to them with clear proofs they said, 'This is clear enchantment"'.

>>19202908
>God didnt put it there. It is there.
Where did it come from? How did it get there, if not by God. If God didn't put it there - and doesn't want it there (right?) - why won't He get rid of it?

>>19202835
Music is nature finding harmony. Lucifer has nothing to do with that. Bombarding such a beautiful thing as music to a product of the worst you can think off is about the sickest thing you can do, besides painting off death as a scary moment of justice or make being horney a sin. Therefor Christianity is pure poison.

Luckily most musicians reclamed the art of music for freedom and used Satan as a mascotte to send a clear message to Christianity. That message is :
Better to reign in hell, then serve in heaven.
Paradise Lost.

>>19202904
what religion has caused the most damage in the 20th century? Oh right. it wasnt a religion. It was ideologies like Naziism and Communism. Total death count over 200 million.
Of course tribalism is always gonna be a problem with every religion, no matter how much they preach against it. but if you are gonna acknowledge tribalism, you also have to acknowledge the capacity of Christianity to bring people together. IE We are all God's children.

>>19202913
And to my second conclusion:

If God didn't put Evil in my heart, why should I listen when He says get rid of that Evil? It's an inherent part of me, and God is saying that natural part of me should be excised? Why does He get to say that? Why do I owe Him the attempt?

>>19202913
Not the same guy. But I think the other anon is saying they believe in the way of life christianity teaches, but not that yhwy is a literal being that literally crafted everything. Might be wrong, but that's what the last 20-30 posts are telling me

>>19202632
>A little phyco
Muhammad

If I remember reading this correctly.
"Jesus (Yeshua) there was no evidence of his existence as Christianity has dictated. However regading his existence a Jesus (Yeshua) had existed and attended the mystery schools of Egypt."

Also trying to pull from memory bear with me:

Roman ruler Constantine wanted a "One true god" to unite all religions under his reign so after a long debate with other Roman leaders at the time(I think it was at the conference of Nicea?) they chose the name "Hesus Krishna" attributing to "Jesus Christ". There was no " J in the alphabet at the time so the name "Hesus Krishna" apparently just evolved. Grain of salt boys but something I felt was interesting.

>>19202925
>they believe in the way of life christianity teaches
They shouldn't. That way of life is quite literally
"You are BAD, and you can't stop being BAD. But if you do what I tell you, you won't be punished for being BAD. (You'll still be BAD, but you'll avoid the punishment.)"

That is no philosophy of life I wish to follow.

>>19202924
Ignore Him at your own peril. Surely you want to see a world with less suffering. If you do, the first thing you have to do is understand the Evil within yourself, and control it, know it, so that you can use this monster to fight of the monsters from the outside.

>>19202934
This is me, and I'm sorry but I must head off for a few hours.

>>19202940
Well fuck, one more.

>Ignore Him at your own peril.
First, are you agreeing that there is no literal Being? That it is entirely an allegory for existence?

Second, the reason is a THREAT? If someone says "You are BAD, do what I say or you will be hurt," this inspires defense and caution, not love and obedience.

And remember, this "peril" is brought about BY GOD. So we have an inherent part of me that God wants removed, and He will hurt me if I don't, but He has no right to dictate what I do with this inherent part of me as He had no influence in its existence.

Christianity is an ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP. You are BAD, and you caused your own suffering. YOU should have listened to me, then I wouldn't have PUNISHED you.

>>19202925
YWHW isn't a literal being that crafted everything "IT" is an "IT" because "IT" is beyond that which is thought and being. Calling "IT" a being is giving it manlike or entity like attributes when "IT" is beyond all of our capacities for comprehension as the source "IT" is literally beyond all of it's own Divine. The reason so many names exist for it is two-fold, to allow of to have reference (mathematical algorithms when given sound/frequency waveform based formats of "creation"). "The great name game" exists due to our human belief that we can define that which is literally beyond us, and due to our redefining of constructions which often hinders our advancements/understandings due to either misrepresentation or misdefinitions.
>>19202963
Above text.

Consider "IT" or God YHWH G-D an allegory for an infinite(Incomprehensible) source of energy which acted as the means of production on our "matrix". Therefore "IT" could never be a man or being/entity (as we know it) as "IT" to be our source had to be beyond us.

>>19202963
your post rings of a child that things he shouldn't be punished for shoving a knife up the family dogs ass.

>>19202963
dont you believe if that if you behave badly you will feel unhappy and your life will turn out worse? That is all im saying.
If you say im part evil so youd better accept me when im being evil.. what kind of world would it be if everyone thought that. A world of endless strife. Christianity teaches us the world we should strive for is one where we attempt to reduce suffering by attempting to be Good.

>>19202861
>pic related. the left hand path has some pretty sick and twisted shit that goes into it.
So does every religion. What's your point?

>you can reverse engineer from Alister Crowley's work that ritual child abuse is the fountain of youth, its quite literally a euphemism for a slitting a childs throat, and drinking the spurting blood that comes from the jugular like a fountain. >magic is dangerous as it pretends to be mysticism.
Are you implying Crowley is the LHP? Or because I read about it, I do agree with everything and are doing the same. Then you are as simple as a christian. Are you by chance a christian?

>this is probably the most dishonest and non-relevant argument I'll ever see.
A fruit is eating in the beginning of time. Now I need Jesus to save me from hell due that piece of fruit. How do you mean 'dishonest and irrelevant' ?

>English your second language or something?
I am Dutch, so be kind for my English is not perfect.

>Once again, your approach to Christianity is too rational.
>Look at original sin this way: Every human has Evil within their heart.

Why not approach it rational. If they writer did not wanted that, the writer should have do a better job writing the book. Hence, the writer of the bible sucks at writing. And if you must believe the book, that is not the only thing he sucked at.

>>The many great philosophers of our time and before have said:
>the line between good and evil runs between every humans heart.
Because many writers say or write something, does not make it a fact. This might seem strange to religious people though.

>>19202989
>things
thinks*

>>19202923
>a different religion caused the worst of what happened last century
>this means other religions get a pass
I don't quite agree with that logic. There are extremists that follow all religions and many of them are willing to threaten lives in order to reach their goals. The implication that if they had enough power, they would impose these ideas on the world is what's most disturbing about this.

We are all humans who all feel the pain of existence. That some of us feel their only reason to do good is because of fear of punishment is a another disturbing thought. What happens when those people come to realize christianity is intended to be interpreted as metaphor? What happens when those people realize that there is no punishment for following each of their most id driven urges? Nothing good is what happens.

And what of those that use the church as a means of controlling people? i don't mean the people that simply want them to be good to each other, rather those that see through the illusion and decide to use the church to reach their own goals? The people that trust them are led down false paths and are taught to worship only the ideas useful to their goal. This too is done in the name of christianity.

Because of christianity, people are brought together, but also driven apart.

Can you honestly believe that there is nothing negative that can be done with and because of this system?

jesus
some randome guy from the street who was at the right time at the right place.
On the cross and taken down by the jewish school members.
taken to a grave and get lost
shit goes down and the winner is
the jews.

now thing about it. what happened just right there.
this looks to me like divine and conqure tactic.

>>19202985
I stopped at two-fold

One for reference, two due reconstructed names over various languages and religions.

>>19203009
Jews aren't really pulling the strings(though it's supposed to seem like they are) but
>divine and conquer
nicely done, lad

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>>19202933
Finally someone who did actual homework. I take it you are not a Christian. That can't be.
Good job , Anon!

>>19203002
>What happens when those people realize that there is no punishment for following each of their most id driven urges?
But there is punishment. Do you think a junkie is happy? Look. I agree the literal interpretation of the bible is harmful. But that shouldnt mean you should discard it completely. What im saying is, the consequence of the West's discarding of Christianity has been the tragedy of the twentieth century.

No. I never said that. Of course relgion can be used to pursue nefarious purposes. Just like any moral framework. The solution to that is relentless criticism. Free speech. the Truth. The original action of Jesus is in that sence exemplary of this idea.

>>19202933
If Jesus had never existed, then why are there so many world events associated with it?

Romans, jews, greeks, etc converted. Jews quit animal sacrifice (now practiced in slaughterhouses), the Roman calendar. The Romans have records from tacticus of ponches pilate execution of jesus.

What more do you need? The official website or DVD series?

>asks for historical account
>gets conspiracy theories

>>19203037
I just don't agree with the idea that the world is better off with christianity any longer. In the past having a big unifying world religion meant a lot of good things, ignoring all the bad ones. It meant less war in the long term and more casual communication between countries which leads to shared ideas which leads to the modern world. But after that, it's purpose has been served. We live in an age where the world is connected and you can meet and collaborate with a good fraction of people all around the globe(or whatever shape you think it is). It's time to let go of the things keeping people awayf rom coming together as a species and begin their exploration of the worlds outside of this one. Things like religion and most forms of government are just going to perpetuate the violent cycles they always eventually kick off. I don't claim to know what the right path is, but speaking from what I know about history, religion never keeps people together for too long. It always ends in bloodshed. Just look at the end of days stories in any of them. That's what they all agree the eventual outcome of religion will be, metaphor or not.

>>19202997
>So does every religion. What's your point?
most religions don't go out of their way to promote practices that damage the soul, and serve pretty good guidelines in order to do things that protect it.

>Are you implying Crowley is the LHP? Or because I read about it, I do agree with everything and are doing the same.
Crowley horribly disfigures and distorts true trantic and yogic traditions and teachings, he's basically deliberate misinformation

>hen you are as simple as a christian. Are you by chance a christian?
By your standards yes, by "christian standards" no. I incorporate "heretical" texts in the gnostic gospels like Thomas, Judas, and Mary Magdalen + the rest of the Nag Hammadi Codex into what is Divinely inspired canon, I'm a heretic in their eyes.

what do you mean as simple as a christian?

>A fruit is eating in the beginning of time. Now I need Jesus to save me from hell due that piece of fruit. How do you mean 'dishonest and irrelevant' ?

shallow and spurious understanding of the scriptures. Jesus is liberation of the material realms and the key to the spiritual kingdoms, those who are stuck in the material realm will be destroyed. the tree of knowledge was not a sin, but a plan to give dominion of the eternal realms to the Son of Adam, Child of Humanity.

what I mean by dishonest and irrelevant means it quite frankly doesn't matter if they read it. people can read what ever they want but unless they learn and believe it, there's no difference than staring at a wall. lets try this another way

>At least 1 out of 10 killers read or have read the bible. Those that single fact make the bible a book for killers?
>At least 1 out of 10 killers read, or have read the dictionary, those that single fact make the dictionary a book for killers
>at least 1 out of 10 killers drink, or have drunk water, those that single fact make water a drink for killers?
also the word you're looking for is "does"

>>19203068
Once again, most violence of the twentieth century was caused by ideologies which replaced the gap religion left. Its almost two at night here in the Netherlands. Imma sleep. Good talk. I dont expect to convince anyone of Christianity online.

>>19203037
>The original action of Jesus is in that sence exemplary of this idea.
No, it's not. Taking punishment for someone else or dying because your father ask you is stupidity. Period.

>If Jesus had never existed, then why are there so many world events associated with it?
Because gubmint needs a mascotte. Just like Trump. He does not rule the US, others do. God does not control the world, nor does Satan or Allah. Others do. Pop artists don't rule popmusic nor does the illuminati, others do. Jews don't control your life. You do.

>>19203084
Bumfuck, Oregon here. Agree with each other or not, I enjoyed hearing your ideas. I hope your dreams are mad dope, anon

>>19202933
>Roman ruler Constantine wanted a "One true god" to unite all religions under his reign so after a long debate with other Roman leaders at the time(I think it was at the conference of Nicea?) they chose the name "Hesus Krishna" attributing to "Jesus Christ". There was no " J in the alphabet at the time so the name "Hesus Krishna" apparently just evolved. Grain of salt boys but something I felt was interesting.

this is inherentily wrong though, and some da vinci code shit.

Constantine was baptized as an Arian Christian. the Council of Nicea was called by Constantine, and it labeled Arian Christianity as literal heresy, by the Catholic Churches own logic Constantine was a heretic. Ironically enough, Rome was sacked in 410 by an Arian Christian King Alaric, and his baptized Visigoths you weren't pagans like they would have you believe.

Constantine was sick of the degeneracy of Rome, the homosexuality, the transgender men, the child abuse, that and Rome was killing Christians as fast as people were converting, and it was a wild fire of conversions, he even moved the capital of the empire to Constantinople from Rome in order to escape it.

>>19203110
If I'm wrong I'm wrong. Didn't say I believed it, but it's nice to have someone respond that can pull up information.

>>19203070
>most religions don't go out of their way to promote practices that damage the soul, and serve pretty good guidelines in order to do things that protect it.
Don't get me wrong here. I am sure that if you truly live the Christian life you can have a happy family, but would you kids be happy with it? There is so much more in this wonderful thing called life then that. Also Christians are very naive and so to say, dumb, compared to educated atheïsts.

>Crowley horribly disfigures and distorts true trantic and yogic traditions and teachings, he's basically deliberate misinformation.
Crowley is just one of the many writers of the LHP. There is much more then just Crowley to the LHP. It's like calling Kent Hovink Christianity. Christianity is much more then just dr. Dino.

>By your standards yes, by "christian standards" no.
>I incorporate "heretical" texts in the gnostic gospels like Thomas, Judas, and Mary Magdalen + the rest of the Nag Hammadi Codex into what is Divinely inspired canon, I'm a heretic in their eyes.
Sounds like you are a freemason, promoting Christianity because your masonic nature demands you. Are you also a Luciferian by chance?

>also the word you're looking for is "does"
You are absolutely right. Lol. I saw that one after posting. Thanks for actually reading ;)

>what do you mean as simple as a christian?
It's my opinion Christians are simple minded. Never met an intelligent Christian. Only clever masons and Luciferians promoting Christianity for their own agenda, mostly building a good reputation for the public. Most Christians do mean well, but because they use the wrong tools they do more harm then good, even to Christianity itself.

> Its almost two at night here in the Netherlands.
Welterusten Anon

i have a lot to sleep on tonight. thanks for a good thread

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>>19203177
> I am sure that if you truly live the Christian life you can have a happy family, but would you kids be happy with it? There is so much more in this wonderful thing called life then that. Also Christians are very naive and so to say, dumb, compared to educated atheïsts.

Facetious and fallacious non-argument, on the cusp of plebbit tier character assassination in the face of not being able to represent any kind of real rebuttal. it also shows a lack of understanding towards the mystery of the soul and resurrection. see >>19202360 since no one had the courage in order to make an actual response


>Crowley is just one of the many writers of the LHP. There is much more then just Crowley to the LHP. It's like calling Kent Hovink Christianity. Christianity is much more then just dr. Dino.
I guess you're going to ignore the point of the sentence, so I guess I'm forced to repeat it.

>Crowley or (insert LHP writer) horribly disfigures and distorts true trantic and yogic traditions and teachings, he's basically deliberate misinformation.
the Tantric tradition is only meant for married couples for a union of marriage is a mystery in itself, it is not meant to be used outside of marriage for sex between strangers. he takes a lot of things that are true, and distorts it so they become half-truths that hurt you.


>Sounds like you are a freemason,
No, not a freemason, and it sounds like you have no idea what freemasonry is.

>promoting Christianity because your masonic nature demands you.
>looks at OP
>first question is literally "Who was Jesus really"
>mfw

>Are you also a Luciferian by chance?
no, Unironically enough Lucifer makes approximately 0 appearances in the gnostic gospels while they do a lot to venerate the bible, Yahweh, and Jesus Christ, most gnostics aren't overly concerned with Lucifer, and understand most of the new-age stuff is Lucifer worship, things like Islam, Judaism, and Catholicism are all Luciferian religions at the highest level.

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>>19203177

>It's my opinion Christians are simple minded. Never met an intelligent Christian.
I'm going to go ahead and tell you I'm one of the people who subscribe to the Geocentric Model of the universe, and have come to understand the heliocentric model is basically a dirty Jew lie. You can think what ever you want, but most "atheists" I've ever met follow science blindly like a religion, and believe them because the article says "scientists" without having a concern in the world of who they are, or what kind of information they are pushing, like lambs to a slaughter.

> Most Christians do mean well, but because they use the wrong tools they do more harm then good, even to Christianity itself.
Well, I'm also going to go ahead and tell you that you can prove the bible has a supernatural origin outside of space-time, as there are about 43,000 pages written on its mathematical properties and patterns by Ivan Panin, and you can easily prove that it writes History before it happens, its called Prophecy. and pic related. to give a small example of this it names Cyrus the Great (man who established the persian empire which succeeded babylon) highlights his career 150 years before he was born in Isaiah 44-45.

the only one doing harm to Christianity is the Luciferian Agenda of Catholics, Jews, and Muslims.

>>19203322
>Kent Hovink
You know, after turning to the geocentric modoel of the universe, I'm borderline a young earth creationst. I still think the earth is about 155.5 trillion years old according to the hindu texts, but I do think that in this cycle of creation and destruction has been going on for about 6000 years AFTER we got kicked out of the garden of eden. I don't know Kents stance about the 2 creation story conjecture between Genesis 1:1, and 1:2 (the idea is that earth was created with life on it, to be inhabbited according to Isaiah 45:18, and something happened roughly Rangarok that made the earth formless and void in 1:2) there being theorized to be millions, billions, or trillions of years between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, and a further severa million years between when Adam and Eve were created, and when they were kicked out, the scripture dictates they had children in the garden before being removed, they could have seen upwards of 5 million people who left the garden with them and could have been there for millions of years, Cain built a city, not a town, not a village, but a city, meaning he had several thousand people with him. neither were cain and abel their first born, but the first ones who were born to adam and eve OUTSIDE of the garden.

>>19203277
>I guess you're going to ignore the point of the sentence, so I guess I'm forced to repeat it.
>I said LHP and you start talking Crowley.
There is more to the LHP then just Crowley.

I read masonic literature for fun. If I am wrong, so be it. Still, you mix different religions, keep the 'good' and trow out the 'bad'. Masonry writes about that. It just uses Christianity, but isn't Christian at all. I don't call it wrong or evil though. I don't even care.
I don't seek anything but fun on /x/. Never found any wisdom on 4chan either, just laughs.

>>19203322
>the only one doing harm to Christianity is the Luciferian Agenda of Catholics, Jews, and Muslims.
Ask any Christian to promote Christianity and debate me (or you) with Gods wisdom. Surely they look like a fool if they try me. Never been different.
Christians trying to convince non Christians always proof Christians are all but wise or smart.
And all they do is use the bible as the ultimate evidence. Without the book they have nothing but their own emotional tainted experience. Sad really. But let's not go there.
Who was Jesus?
In the end, nothing more but a fantasy made popular worldwide due agressive efforts of power hungry assholes like popes and kings

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>>19203327
Your rhetoric is funny, creative but all but Christianity. I like that. Please keep making Christians doubt everything they think they know. That only results in making Christianity even more a joke and Christians dumber.
kek

>>19203368
>I said LHP and you start talking Crowley
>Crowley or (insert LHP writer here)

thats twice you've missed the point.

they distort the truth, and give you a half truth that hurts you. they give you a rose without the flower and only the thorns, when you grip onto it and your hand bleeds, they trick you into finding it enjoyable.

> read masonic literature for fun. If I am wrong, so be it. Still, you mix different religions, keep the 'good' and trow out the 'bad'. Masonry writes about that.

I'm pretty sure I take the good with the bad, for even every curse eventually turns into a blessing, and mankind ate the tree of knowledge of "Good AND Evil". the way masonic literature works is they take the bad, and call it good, and take the good, and call it bad.

> I don't call it wrong or evil though
I would call it deceived.

>Never found any wisdom on 4chan either, just laughs.
well I have, its very few and far in between, but I have. I've even been called intelligent quite a few times across /pol/ and /x/

>Ask any Christian to promote Christianity and debate me (or you) with Gods wisdom. Surely they look like a fool if they try me. Never been different.
1) I seriously doubt that there is a singular thing you can disagree with in the new testament, maybe the old, but if you read the NT cover to cover you would find yourself agreeing with every letter, and every word.
2) the bible is a book about the foolishness of God, and how it is greater than the wisdom of men. if you ask most people, its a pretty foolish endeavor to put the fate of Mankind on the crucifixion of a Carpenter's Son
1 Corinthians 1:25
>Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Romans 1:22 generally comes to mind
>Professing to be wise, they became fools,

>>19203405
>Christians trying to convince non Christians always proof Christians are all but wise or smart.
most non-christians don't believe in, nor acknowledge the soul, or spiritual realms despite the fact they are very real, and have a huge impact on the world.

>And all they do is use the bible as the ultimate evidence
you failed to acknolwedge the point again.

> you can prove the bible has a supernatural origin outside of space-time, as there are about 43,000 pages written on its mathematical properties and patterns by Ivan Panin, and you can easily prove that it writes History before it happens, its called Prophecy. and pic related. to give a small example of this it names Cyrus the Great (man who established the persian empire which succeeded babylon) highlights his career 150 years before he was born in Isaiah 44-45.

> Without the book they have nothing but their own emotional tainted experience. Sad really. But let's not go there.
emotions are worldly and end up being lies, what the Soul feels matters though.

>In the end, nothing more but a fantasy made popular worldwide due agressive efforts of power hungry assholes like popes and kings
tell me Anon, do you believe in the soul, and do you think the soul has a monotheistic creator

>>19203443
I confess that Christ is the Son of God, who came down into the flesh to die for the sins of mankind, and resurrected from the dead after 3 days, as it says in the scriptures. thats about as christian as it gets.

>>19203478
>1) I seriously doubt that there is a singular thing you can disagree with in the new testament, maybe the old, but if you read the NT cover to cover you would find yourself agreeing with every letter, and every word.
>And why would you think that?
Because you think you know my 'type'? I am sure you don't know where I come from. But please, show me something that I could agree with. I am curious and never to proud to admit anything.

>1 Corinthians 1:25
Don't agree. God is not foolish nor wise. Thinking there might be a god is wise. Believing the biblical God is real is foolish. Especially when you didn't read the book in chronological order from cover to cover. Even if you read the book from cover to cover in any order you please.

>Romans 1:22
It not the way you write any letter. It's clearly indoctrination, propaganda and ment to misguide future readers. Taste like catholic church to me. Verse 22 holds the door open for the pastor to preach 'better understanding' to already brainwashed followers.

>>19202262
i'd rather worship jesus than your imaginary goddess aura

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>"jesus died for our sins!!"
>god makes laws
>doesnt tell anybody?
>gets butthurt when people break them
>has his son get killed so he can forgive everyone for breaking laws
>still hasnt told anyone what the laws were that we broke

What did he mean by this?

>>19203483
>emotions are worldly and end up being lies, what the Soul feels matters though
What the mind experiences does matter, does not make Jesus talking to you real though. And going on talking to others 'in the name of God' is wrong on so many levels. Even arrogant and degrading. Still, that common among religious freaks.

>tell me Anon, do you believe in the soul, and do you think the soul has a monotheistic creator
There is zero evidence for a soul. However Plato mentioned Soul in the upmost poetic sense. If you take that literally, we are not of the same metal.
I would say body, mind and reputation. And reputation starts way before you cry for the first time and can last aeons after your last breath. IMHO the word Soul is poisoned. And no, reputation has no monotheistic creator. Nothing does for that matter.

>thats about as christian as it gets.
You take me for a simple mind. Which does not border me. At all. But you know playing with the time line of Genesis like you do is way beyond Christianity. Again , sound to me more like Luciferian. Which is fine by me.

>>19203596
God has always told us about his laws. He told them to Adam and every patriarch and prophet since. That is the function of prophets.

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Good thread. We've managed to convince these bible bumpers that taking the bible literally is evil and wrong. We're close to destroying organized religion!

Christcucks = 0
Everyone else = 100

>>19203539
>Because you think you know my 'type'? I am sure you don't know where I come from. But please, show me something that I could agree with. I am curious and never to proud to admit anything.

because its something that speaks to the soul. you abuse your soul to serve your flesh, and your ego, while denying the existence of the true self. When you refuse the Soul that you are, you refuse the creator of it.

>Taste like catholic church to me. Verse 22 holds the door open for the pastor to preach 'better understanding' to already brainwashed followers.

Pretty Dishonest answer there rabbi. Christ made a great deal speaking out against the Pharisees, and the traditions of men

Matthew 16
>12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

He who answers a matter before investigating it, it is shame and folly unto him.

>Don't agree. God is not foolish nor wise. Thinking there might be a god is wise
doubting that God wouldn't speak to his creation is foolish.

> Believing the biblical God is real is foolish.
Like i stated, following the left hand path is a distorted Truth that harms the soul.

>>19203603

>You take me for a simple mind. Which does not border me. At all. But you know playing with the time line of Genesis like you do is way beyond Christianity. Again , sound to me more like Luciferian. Which is fine by me.
Bother.
you're really going to have to explain how understanding the subtleties of Genesis is Luciferian, and goes beyond christianity. Luciferianism is child sacrifce and abuse, and is in heart evil, and sinful because it rejects the Father in heaven.

and at this point, I am starting to take you for a simpleton. continued in the next post

Why doesn't anyone in this thread tell OP John the Baptist is the actual historical basis for the charactero of Iesous Khristos?

>>19203656
can you stop shitting up this thread you ugly shit. no one even reads your posts I sure as hell don't

>>19203603
>What the mind experiences does matter,
the scriptures, not just the bible, but across world religions make a big difference between the body's mind, the spirit's mind, and the soul's mind.
>does not make Jesus talking to you real though
have I made this claim?
> And going on talking to others 'in the name of God' is wrong on so many levels. Even arrogant and degrading. Still, that common among religious freaks.
how is it any different than going around and talking to people "in the name of science"? especially when science is falsifiable, and wrong all the time, and most of these nerds can't even name 1/10th of the scientists whose rhetoric they push

>There is zero evidence for a soul.
there's literally thousands of years of literature and scripture that goes into the nature of the soul, where it comes from, and its cultivation and destruction., to say there is zero evidence for the soul is to say there is 0 evidence for the american revolution. try taking a look at the differences between geocentric, and heliocentric cosmology, you just might figure out someone has been lying to you for several hundred years

>However Plato mentioned Soul in the upmost poetic sense. If you take that literally, we are not of the same metal.
this is just pretty much wrong on every level. Plato mentions the soul as a real thing that inhabits every single human body.

>I would say body, mind and reputation.
you replaced the word Ego with Reputation.

I'm guessing by the rest of your post and your ego, you don't think the spiritual realms exist either?

the soul is what makes your body function, it breaths for you, and makes your heart beat for you, can you imagine having to consciously open and close your lungs, and manually make your heart beat? can your ego do that? have you ever counted the amount of heart beats or breaths you've had in a day? do you think if you had to use your mind and body to manually do these functions for a day you would make it out alive?

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>>19202510
>for someone who thinks they know a lot, you sure know nothing.

How are they not pro-Roman documents? They're certainly not pro-Jew... There are even many Jews who think the gospels were an evil Roman conspiracy to convince the Jews to stop being murderous terrorists....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuKFX1NuoaI

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>>19203698
I'm actually having a conversation with the foreign anon. kindly fuck off back to /r/atheism

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>>19203720
>How are they not pro-Roman documents?

because Rome is going to be destroyed.

>There are even many Jews who think the gospels were an evil Roman conspiracy to convince the Jews to stop being murderous terrorists....
its ironic, the Kabbalah does quite a bit to validate Jesus Christ as the messiah of the Old testament. the Son of Joseph in the Kabbalah pretty much highlights Jesus Christ's entire career in the new testament, and labels the several hundred prophecies of his coming from the old testament.

>Alexander the great in that pic
he was actually foretold of 300 years in advance by daniel 8. its a pretty interesting study. you should look up his interaction with Jerusalem.

>>19201071
If Jesus was born from a woman, then the Y chromosome came from a miracle, and Jesus is not a part of the male Hebrew lineage.

>>19203656
>doubting that God wouldn't speak to his creation is foolish.
Taking for granted that a creator will always be around its creation is not wise.

>Luciferianism is child sacrifce and abuse, and is in heart evil, and sinful because it rejects the Father in heaven.
Question : wasn't it you who pointed out Roman Catholicism, Judaism and Islam is Luciferian?
>>19203322
>the Luciferian Agenda of Catholics, Jews, and Muslims.
They all push the Father of the Heavens
agenda. And they abuse and sacrifice children by poisoning them with their 'our religion is the only way to happiness' speech and 'spread our faith ' propaganda.

>I am starting to take you for a simpleton.
Because I don't agree with your way of seeing things? Typical. Funny but typical.
Luciferians will do anything to twist what is already written into something that makes you think it might still be correct. They pretty much do what Lucifer supposed to have done according to the bible, being lead all beings to praise the biblical God. Lucifer was the most important of all angels. It turned out he was also the one who was the least of the actual devoted ones to God. Spreading half-truths. Kinda just like you try to do. Again, please continue. I like those who crush Christianity at the end.
By adding little details to the bible you will achieve just, because you help making Christians insecure, which in turn ruins their reputation and appeal as being 'heroes' for youth or others who seek for role models.

>>19202824
>123:2. The Fifth Year (2 B.C.)
>123:3. Events of the Sixth Year (1 B.C.)
>123:4. The Seventh Year (A.D. 1)
>123:5. School Days in Nazareth
>123:6. His Eighth Year (A.D. 2)
>Paper 124. The Later Childhood of Jesus
>124:0. Paper 124. The Later Childhood of Jesus
>124:1. Jesus' Ninth Year (A.D. 3)
>124:2. The Tenth Year (A.D. 4)
>124:3. The Eleventh Year (A.D. 5)
>124:4. The Twelfth Year (A.D. 6)
>124:5. His Thirteenth Year (A.D. 7)

how fucking stupid are you? jesus fuck

>>19203726
ironic since that picture reeks of Reddit and you do too. kill yourself

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>>19203764
>because Rome is going to be destroyed.

Rome already was destroyed - the Jews decided to turn a Son of God into a weapon against the Romans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAQJ8oVQYOM

>>19203708
>most of these nerds can't even name 1/10th of the scientists whose rhetoric they push
>the name does not matter at all. The only thing that matters are the data that can be reproduced.

>there's literally thousands of years of literature and scripture that goes into the nature of the soul, where it comes from, and its cultivation and destruction.,
There is a lot of literature about Pinocchio. Does not make it a fact Pinocchio lived though. He who only reads and takes it for facts is illiterate to reality. Testing theory in reality brings knowledge. Using knowledge effectively leads to wisdom.

>Plato mentions the soul as a real thing that inhabits every single human body.
Plato gave everything a soul. And was wrong in a lot of things. It's hard to be wrong in poetry however. It"s easy to be misunderstood in poetry, but legit saying the poet was wrong is hard to get away with.

>you replaced the word Ego with Reputation
No, your mom had ideas about your character when she was still a young girl. Your father, if he was aware of you being conceived, had ideas about you growing up. Both tried to shape you to match those ideas. That is not Ego, but comes more close to reputation.The rep. of being an offspring of a military family can stick on you before you are born and when you smash your first cake, the talk could be how strong and firm you smashed it, being a son of a true general. Reputation.What others say about you. How others see you. It starts before you are born, is always there when you are alive and might never leave after you die.
Body, mind and reputation.The brain is part of the body, but the mind beyond the observable.You can scan the brain and it's activity, still can never truly observe what the owner of the brain thinking of at that moment.The mind is the brain produces.
Study showed that the small brains regulate the most vital functions of the body, while the large brains are used to react at impulses are generate thought cognition

>>19203804
>Because I don't agree with your way of seeing things? Typical. Funny but typical

because the thoughts of flesh are tragically inferior, and can't hold a candle to the thoughts of the spirit, and soul.

>Question : wasn't it you who pointed out Roman Catholicism, Judaism and Islam is Luciferian?
yes, roman catholicism is a counterfeit of Christianity. Islam was created by the Roman Catholic church in order to continue its exterminations of Christians. and Judaism is not Judaism anymore, its Talmudic garbage or Rabbinical, there is only 1 sect of Judaism that is old testament only (rejecting talmud and oral law), and its karaite judaism, and only has about 50,000 followers. its also deemed heretical by the mainstream judaic movement

>Taking for granted that a creator will always be around its creation is not wise.
a Son is suppose to rely on his Father until he becomes a man.

>They all push the Father of the Heavens
Catholics push the queen of heaven, Jews worship Lucifer, and Muslims believe Allah doesn't have children, that he is not a father, but a master and everyone is his slave.

so no, they don't push a "father of the heavens agenda"

> And they abuse and sacrifice children by poisoning them with their 'our religion is the only way to happiness' speech and 'spread our faith ' propaganda.
and anyone who takes the time to investigate matters into their own hands see that each one is full of shit.

>>19204008
>Luciferians will do anything to twist what is already written into something that makes you think it might still be correct.
this would be true if I were changing anything, this is the exact opposite, the 2 creation story comes from reverting back to the original hebrew texts and study of other chapters and verses relating to the creation.

and I never stated a half truth, my statements about the 2 creation story was clearly labeled as "conjecture" you should look up the word, its a good one. its not a thing I can really know is or isn't true, its an interesting theory and I like discussing it, and sharing it with people, especially the biblicaly literate, or literate in general. and the conjecture, comes from bible scholars, and christian researchers who study the mystery of the bible, for it is the glory of god to conceal a thing, and the duty of kings to find it. Proverbs 25:2

> They pretty much do what Lucifer supposed to have done according to the bible,
Lucifer tries to replace the Father, and the Father lets him, but lets him know that he can't do it.

>being lead all beings to praise the biblical God. Lucifer was the most important of all angels. It turned out he was also the one who was the least of the actual devoted ones to God.
you're going to have to rephrase this because its hard to understand.

>Again, please continue. I like those who crush Christianity at the end.
all what you're doing is denying that you're a soul despite the fact there is more than enough "evidence" to prove it exists. which is a grevious crime. everyone stands at tribunal when they die.

>y adding little details to the bible you will achieve just, because you help making Christians insecure, which in turn ruins their reputation and appeal as being 'heroes' for youth or others who seek for role models.

I do very little to make christians "insecure" this is some delusional daydream

>>19202985
>YWHW isn't a literal being that crafted everything
Then any anthropomorphic attribute should be discarded. This leads to me second conclusion again:
Why do I owe Him anything?

If we're just using YWHW as a substitute for existence, then I will chart my own path, picking and choosing from whatever book or process I choose to use.

>>19202989
No, because no one tells a child that they will inherently shove a knife up a dog's ass. That they CAN'T HELP but do it. And THEN punish them for it.

It's more like I'm a child that doesn't understand why I get smacked and scolded every time I defecate.

>>19202991
>dont you believe if that if you behave badly you will feel unhappy and your life will turn out worse? That is all im saying.
Why bring God into this at all then? Why use the Christian framework of a conscious entity who "cares" about us?

>>19202991
>what kind of world would it be if everyone thought that.
A world of mercy, empathy, and forgiveness.

>Christianity teaches us the world we should strive for is one where we attempt to reduce suffering by attempting to be Good.
I disagree. Christianity puts the task of salvation squarely on supernatural shoulders. We're saved by grace and faith, not by our own efforts. Our efforts SHOW our faith, but they do not save us. Because our own ability is FLAWED and SINFUL, no matter how hard we try.

If there are any posts you wanted this anon (>>19202963)
to reply to, please quote them.

>>19202364
You're reaching for bullshit to cover up the stench of broken dreams. Ain't gonna work. The unique trait of truth is that it survives being tested - and Jesus did not.

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>>19203971
>Rome already was destroyed - the Jews decided to turn a Son of God into a weapon against the Romans.

this is rather untrue. Rome split into 2 empires, 2 legs, a western, and eastern leg, Rome, and Constantinople. the western leg was sacked by germanic arian christians led by Alaric in 410. the eastern leg of rome was destroyed by Islam, and the eastern leg stood for roughly a thousand years longer than the western leg did. and no, it wasn't destroyed. ever heard of this thing called "roman catholicism?" it merely went into the shadows, all roads lead to Rome my friend. Roman Catholicism is the surviving political system of Rome that was transfered into the counterfeit church in 380 AD

I want you to keep in mind that for several hundred years the catholic church both burned bibles, and christians for reading the bible alive, along with very fucked up ways of torture and execution. something the roman empire practiced until Constantine made Christianity legal.

Rome is verily trying to destroy Christianity, and the Son of Man, you have things tragically backwards. if the catholic church had their way they would kill anyone for reading the bible, and burn every last copy of it. and they cleverly use the guise of the Son of God in order to do so.

what does your video have to do with anything?

the old testament tells of Romes building and destruction in advance, and the new testament does exactly that as well. Rome in itself represents Babylon, last I checked Babylon is being rebuilt and there are rumors that its going to be the new headquarters of the UN.

your pic, is everything the bible stands against.

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>>19202360
>hurr durr I believe everything

>>19203976
>>the name does not matter at all. The only thing that matters are the data that can be reproduced.

majority concensus does not mean majority evidence, the earth is flat and stationary, and these results can be reproduced. the heliocentric model is the entire basis of pseudoscience and misinformation. evolution is a dirty jew lie and there has never been a genome change that produced a new species.

science is largely fake.

>ere is a lot of literature about Pinocchio. Does not make it a fact Pinocchio lived though. He who only reads and takes it for facts is illiterate to reality. Testing theory in reality brings knowledge. Using knowledge effectively leads to wisdom.

by your own logic you have no reason to doubt the soul, evidence for it is produced through experience of it, denying its existence based on a lack of experience is to deny yourself the chance ti prove it exists, which is something to be done personally. you are a soul inhabiting flesh, not a meat bag with no divine purpose.

>The brain is part of the body, but the mind beyond the observable.You can scan the brain and it's activity, still can never truly observe what the owner of the brain thinking of at that moment.The mind is the brain produces

you know how you can make a voice in your head? try taking that voice, and moving it into your heart. there is something else in the body that has nothing to do with the body, a dweller in the flesh.

>>19203913
How about you go choke on that Muhammad dick you love so much, Reddit? maybe ask your big-daddy mods to remove all the hate against you, or remove any post refuting your diatribe?

>>19204111
yea, at this point I pretty much do, whats your point? or do you like going on an anime board and typing hurr durr?

>>19204008
>a Son is suppose to rely on his Father until he becomes a man.
Be honest here. How many fathers can handle that task?
But that was not the point.

>and anyone who takes the time to investigate matters into their own hands see that each one is full of shit.
including the western member of that tribe, Christianity. Which was, is and will always be my point.

>and I never stated a half truth
Say what? You mixed at least 2 stories. And I know for a fact that one story comes from a book that states
A. God word is true
B. nothing may be added, altered or left out
C. B is guarded by God
A and C I personally don't take as fact, but that is not the issue.
To me, by these 3 'rules' coming from that same bible you are proposing a half-truth. Again, which I enjoy, because I could not care less about anything bible related. I just like our debate.

>bible scholars, and christian researchers who study the mystery of the bible
Another joke of epic proportions.
God talks to people, the holy ghost reveals Gods plans. Still dedicated bible readers don't get their understanding from either one but like any other scientists through study and study only.
Kinda debunkes the whole 'personal relationship with God' idea all together. Again, also degrades god/holy ghost to an incompetent inspirator and or writer.

>Lucifer tries to replace the Father, and the Father lets him, but lets him know that he can't do it.
Read the book! Before the fall Lucifer was a big deal in heaven.

> everyone stands at tribunal when they die.
This is what you hope or believe, but there is no proof of such a thing. Even if there are many writings about it. It is never proven to be actual true. And yes, knowing what I know now I am more then confident to take the chances and live like it isn't so and I have no soul that will burn or go to heaven.

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>>19204139
Yes

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>>19202237
I don't know why people hope there is something after death. As if temporal conscious experience wasn't bad enough. Wouldn't that be terrible? Oh wait it actually is.

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>>19202586
>trying to convince the most credulous person alive to be skeptical

>>19204174
well, carry on then, don't let me stop you.

>>19204152
A. God word is true
B. nothing may be added, altered or left out
C. B is guarded by God
A and C I personally don't take as fact, but that is not the issue.

ok, I'm going to reiterate again. you can prove very easily that not one letter has been changed in the original greek, hebrew, and aramaic texts by looking at Ivan Panin's work. man was a PHD in mathematics, and wrote 43,000 pages on the Heptatic structure and mathematical properties of the bible
>Again, also degrades god/holy ghost to an incompetent inspirator and or writer.
Panin's argument roughly states that in order for there to be these patterns and properties, that either every writer and collaberator had to have been the greatest mathematicians in the world, or that there was an overseer to every letter.


the 2 creation stories comes from looking at the hebrew texts. when it says in 1:2The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. the grammar in hebrew implies "The earth HAD BECOME without form and void" the 2 creation stories comes from a debate on translation. do you understand?


>Read the book! Before the fall Lucifer was a big deal in heaven.
YOU DON'T SAY

>This is what you hope or believe, but there is no proof of such a thing.
despite thousands of years of this event being recorded?
>. Even if there are many writings about it. It is never proven to be actual true.
its just one of those things you're going to find out when you die unless you shape up beforehand.
>. And yes, knowing what I know now I am more then confident to take the chances and live like it isn't so and I have no soul that will burn or go to heaven
Welp, that's where you're wrong Kiddo.
you know, Socrates stated "true knowledge comes in knowing you know nothing" I know for a fact I know nothing, which is why I have true knowledge.
its just one of those things that you're going to find out when you die.

>>19202657
>individualism

umm, no. Individualism is a fundamentally nihilistic and modern idea. Maybe even a total satanism. Religion has never been about propping up the ego but rather sublimating it to a transcendent will. This is true of the east as it is in the west.

>>19204112
You start to loose temper. I warned you.
I know what I say and Christianity is fake.
Also the soul is not there. Your bad luck is, I am still Anon, while you go into the archives as the one who lost this debate.
Maybe if you start to write real loud people might believe you.
I don't need anyone to believe me. I rather they prove me wrong. But that prove is hard to get. Why don't you ask Jesus to say a word on his own behave for a change. Or let the Holy Ghost write down something that is truly convincing.
Nah, I bet God trust christians to spread Christianity. God not being so smart in making decisions and all. Even if you read the book, God turned out to be anything but wise, allknowing and loving. He pretty much keeps fucking things up. He even published his endgame for everyone and everything to read. Good strategy. ..

>moving it into your heart.
still don't understand how your body actually functions?
The heart is a pomp. An electric driven pomp. Just admit the biblical story does not hold taken literally and most, if not all, is not a historical journal. It has just as much value as Arabian Nights and The adventures of Donald Duck. Full of morality but still nothing more then made up stories. Starmaps sure. But not history.

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>>19204152
>including the western member of that tribe, Christianity. Which was, is and will always be my point.
it really isn't, you're decieved down to your toenails, and don't know the difference between the bible and a door knob.

>God talks to people, the holy ghost reveals Gods plans. Still dedicated bible readers don't get their understanding from either one but like any other scientists through study and study only.
Kinda debunkes the whole 'personal relationship with God' idea all together

it really doesn't. the current model of science runs on ideas that can't be proven, but are difficult to disprove as well. Gravity and Evolution can't be proven, and both are pretty difficult to debunk, even though there are very good arguments against it.

dedicated bible readers absolutely get their understanding from a bible, and peer review, I have no clue why you're making fallacious arguments.

>Be honest here. How many fathers can handle that task?
not many, most people are unfit for children.
>>19204185
for both of you, here's the religion redpill.

>>19204237
being willing to investigate anything and everything does not mean I'm ready to believe anything and everything, nor is it the same thing.

>>19204272
You've investigated nothing tho. In fact you're not even willing to investigate anything as truth which ha a power-structure supporting it on that basis alone. You're practically a Derridan

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>>19204272
why does anyone need to read that? Its boilerplate apologetics. The worst sin of all is apparently being born as a shitskin. Doesn't seem to have a lot to do with free agency and not being a dick. No access to gospel? Too bad.

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>>19204261
>LI know what I say and Christianity is fake.
ok, disprove Ivan Panin's work, and you can say that.

>Also the soul is not there.
this is a Jew meme.

>Maybe if you start to write real loud people might believe you.
believe in what exactly? all what I've done is defend the existence of the soul.

>I don't need anyone to believe me. I rather they prove me wrong. But that prove is hard to get. Why don't you ask Jesus to say a word on his own behave for a change. Or let the Holy Ghost write down something that is truly convincing.

man, its almost like there's a collection of books or something that write history before it happens, affirming its origins outside of space-time.

>Nah, I bet God trust christians to spread Christianity. God not being so smart in making decisions and all. Even if you read the book, God turned out to be anything but wise, allknowing and loving. He pretty much keeps fucking things up. He even published his endgame for everyone and everything to read. Good strategy

yes, he published the entire history of the world into the bible, so that people can know there are forces that exist outside the physical property of time.

>still don't understand how your body actually functions?
yes, you're missing the point. you can take the inner voice of your head and move it to any place in your body.

>Just admit the biblical story does not hold taken literally and most, if not all, is not a historical journal.
no thanks, the bible is to be taken literally, and most of all, it is a historical journal that lays out the history of the world in advance.

even the gnostic gospels tell you to take the scriptures literally.

>>19204285
> In fact you're not even willing to investigate anything as truth which ha a power-structure supporting it on that basis alone

>appeal to authority
no thanks

>You're practically a Derridan
you act like this is an insult or something.

>You've investigated nothing tho
ok, thanks for the life update.

>>19204272
>it really isn't, you're decieved down to your toenails, and don't know the difference between the bible and a door knob.
I do. A doorknob is friendly and kind, never unwanted and does not lie.
A doorknob is also useful and does not make you dumb or ignorant to reality.

>being willing to investigate anything and everything does not mean I'm ready to believe anything and everything
implying I didn't. I have been a Satanist for many years. Sure as hell I investigated the bible forwards and backwards a few times. I had to be sure I wasn't wrong and ended up in hell. I am sure of that a long time. And ready to debate anyone in public on the subject. I am 100% atheïst. Not because I don't know the bible or Christianity, but because I do, more then you know. Like many I was raised christian. And still have family members who are christian. In fact, I visited church last Sunday, my father asked me to join him.

>>19204332
I'm not making an appeal to authority. I'm just saying things that authorities say are not necessarily false.

>>19204332
>ok, disprove Ivan Panin's work, and you can say that.
Why? To please you? My opinion is my opinion. And my opinion on Christianity is that it is fake. Why waste time on a writer who's not mentioned in the bible for building my view on that religion? Do you take me for a christian or what?

>>19204391
In all fairness you cannot put forward an opinion on a matter of truth as an argument. That's just bad rhetoric

>>19204123
are you mental

>>19204414
Is that bad rhetoric for a fact or your opinion on rhetoric being used a certain way?
But in real life fact are mostly biased and opinions shared. And in a discourse opinions matter. The whole bible is a opinion, because it creditability is based upon faith, which is, like it or now, more an opinion then is fact.

>>19202262
that's where you're wrong, kiddo

>>19204475
You can't say "my opinion is that X is untrue" instead you should say "I believe X to be untrue" and then explain why. You don't get to hold some special opinion about whether something is true or not and expect it to be respected as such.

>>19204342
>>19204391
>plying I didn't. I have been a Satanist for many years. Sure as hell I investigated the bible forwards and backwards a few times. I had to be sure I wasn't wrong and ended up in hell. I am sure of that a long time. And ready to debate anyone in public on the subject. I am 100% atheïst. Not because I don't know the bible or Christianity, but because I do.
we have 2 very different ways of understanding the scripture. I presented quite a few arguments that can be tested and reproduced to yield the same results that state that the bible has incredible mathematical properties to it, so much so that a PHD in mathematics went and took the time to write 43,000 pages on the subject, and that it literally writes history before it happens, and things things implicate an advanced message that comes from something that exists outside of time, and you've done nothing to disprove the notion other than edgy 14 year old opinions about winning winning arguments.

we also come from 2 very different planets, my earth is a stationary flat disc with a small localized sun rotating around the earth, and these things can be proven, while your earth is a flying spinning ball following the sun, which likewise can be disproven.

you live in a world where the soul doesn't exist, and I live in a world where people have been tricked into thinking the soul doesn't exist

>Why? To please you? My opinion is my opinion. And my opinion on Christianity is that it is fake
your opinion is wrong, you don't have the intellectual capacity, or honesty to address Panin's work.

>Why waste time on a writer who's not mentioned in the bible for building my view on that religion?
because his work in the mathematical field has dramatic views on the text. he isn't a writer, he's a mathematician from the 19th-20th century.

>Do you take me for a christian or what?
I'm starting to take you for an idiot, and a shallow thinker.

>>19204378
ok, and I'm saying there is a reason why there are others who say the authorities are wrong.

>>19204414
thanks for being reasonable anon.

>>19204620
>things things
these things
> winning winning
winning online.

glitch in the matrix, disregard.

>>19204631
>thanks for being reasonable anon.

ah don't mention it

t. the other guy you are arguing with :^)

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>>19204651
are you the one who called me a Derridan?
i have to also thank you, I just looked up this guy and I do think quite a lot like him. honestly I didn't know who he was until this post but you're right in a way, I havent investigated anything I've deconstructed the information given to me. I think his work will help me to refine my thinking patterns though I don't think I'm very far off from his ideals.

Either the stories in the gospel were exaggerated because they were told by illiterate sheep farmers, ie: legends on the same scale of Hercules, something St Paul made up in his head, or an alien.

Right now I'm leaning towards alien because there are too many things in the bible and apocryphal writings that line up with UFOs. The Bible makes more sense to me with an exotheist mind set.

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>>19204818
i made about 30 some odd posts in this thread, I really recommend reading them.

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Why would the majority of people around here believe in demons and hell but not in God, Jesus and heaven?

>>19204851
edgy 14 year olds.

>father demands small sacrifices for every sin and some holy rememberance days
>son comes and says there will be no more sacrifices no more eye for an eye
>father proves the point by sacrificing him for all of our sins
KINO

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>>19204079
>what does your video have to do with anything?

I am the "Son of Chaos" as the Moirai have designated me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37pcwb2JKSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsLDTyxkP7A

>>19205005
well you can make a chouce to be a Son of the Most high God. you have the authority to overwrite fates designation.

i highly recommend reading the gnostic gospels. your posts ring of ass-burgers.

>>19202253
>If only one human refuses to pull a trigger because of Jesus it was already worth it.

Did you miss the millions of humans dying, tortured and being killed when white people tried to spread "Christianity"

It's fucking evil.

>>19201071
Heard the same thing about the Buddha.

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>>19205030
>well you can make a chouce to be a Son of the Most high God. you have the authority to overwrite fates designation

Well, I don't really know - I think it's a give and take. I know I've been the Son of God much longer than I knew I was.

For example, I was working on this mod back in 2013 about an immortal imprisoned servant of God-Emperor Tiber Septim from Skyrim. He's head of the Imperial Guard and has been imprisoned for hundreds of years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQgxdrhjhKQ

He states the main problem with the Dwemer was they were taught to abandon Daedra worship by their leaders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udZK_F7X-pA

And, as you can see, I didn't state I was a god until last December - though I had had many unusual experiences prior to that - I didn't cease being an atheist until last September:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzLZMJxgWk4

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>>19205097

m8... you need a clearer message

>>19205040
you seem to fancy yourself bright. just take my reccomendation, read the gnostic gospels, and take the Chirst pill, I think I made a pretty good case on the nature of the soul, the savoir, and the Creator-Father in this thread. because honestly bro, I have no clue what the fuck you're going on about, or where the fuck you even get your information. >>19205107 is right, but I think you don't even have a message at this point.

>>19205141
>you don't have a message

>glossing over centuries of Church greed, corruption, violence, genocide and hypocrisy

pffftthaha

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>>19205144
i actually addressed this in the thread, the catholic church spent most of its time burning bibles, and killing Christians for reading the bible, and rejecting the church. look up the Waldensians

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>>19205107
>m8... you need a clearer message

I am a nexus for prophecy more than a messenger. One of the reasons I have very little of my own words on my channel. If even one of my videos I have uploaded is divinely inspired than God is real and Moses is false.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuKFX1NuoaI

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>>19205261
this is some out of context nonsense, Christ Validates the Mosaic texts as something that speaks of him.

>46If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me.

quite frankly man your messages aren't divinely inspired.

>>19205261

>I am a nexus for prophecy more than a messenger. One of the reasons I have very little of my own words on my channel. If even one of my videos I have uploaded is divinely inspired than God is real and Moses is false.

Could you just type up your reasoning and proof for this please, the videos don't make really any sense as to being divinely inspired, which is a very hefty claim to make.

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>>19205305
>this is some out of context nonsense, Christ Validates the Mosaic texts as something that speaks of him.

It does not say they speak truthfully of him. I think he clearly says they speak falsely of him.

>>19205310
>>19205305
>quite frankly man your messages aren't divinely inspired.

I disagree. The reality is not a matter of perspective, it's just a matter of whether the facts are correctly interpreted or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyLfF5qpV8Q

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>>19205388
the entire material realm is a hoax in itself.

>It does not say they speak truthfully of him. I think he clearly says they speak falsely of him.

>>46If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me.

thats pretty much exactly the opposite of what you think. you can't just take something out of context and make it contradict Christ's word to fit your narrative, contradicting yourself means your messages are not divinely inspired.

the father that Christ is referring to in John 8 is not Moses, but of most likely the Demiurge, who is the curator of the material realm, it might also be lucifer morningstar, its up for debate.

>>19204590
>You can't say "my opinion is that X is untrue"
Not correct. If asked if a testimony is true or false, one can only give a personal judgement, which might be a fact, but is based on an opinion.

>the bible has incredible mathematical properties to it
I don't even argue on that fact. I do say that the fact it does, rather shows how much effort men toke to make sure the system was airtight. Any true story doesn't need to be so well guarded in a human way. For if it was true, completely true, God could just touch the 'heart' of the reader and bless the reader with devine wisdom. Better yet, a book was not even needed, if God did real.

>can be tested and reproduced
I though so. You mix up a lot of things. The fact that you can do that merely prove the skill of the composers, by no means does that prove any fact actually writen to be true. But you just point out that the Sephiroth is a great tool to use when writing stories or books. In other words, if you are consistent and use a lot of different word that mean the same thing, you can built great novels. The fact that someone decides to write a paper on that again only proves the usability of the method, not the message being correct.
And in this fine conversation I learned you are more then capable to know the difference, so how are you trying to trick ?

>we also come from 2 very different planets,
No we don't. We come from different cultures and lived different lifes.
There is only one planets where these symbols make sense in the way we were able to debate untill now. That planet is called Earth and we both know about Ivanka Trump and Darth Vader. You see, we come from the same planet.

>>19204620
>my earth is a stationary flat disc with a small localized sun rotating around the earth, and these things can be proven,
>it has been proved literly untrue. All arguments for flat earth fail to stand educated debaters. While our solar system is been proven again and again. When you go around calling them lies and all evidence fake, go cry at your mothers, but don't talk to adults anymore.
When you want to be poetic about a flat earth, make sure that message also is known, otherwise again, start sucking your moms tits again.
>while your earth is a flying spinning ball following the sun, which likewise can be disproven.
It can't be disproven. All you do is trying to break the credibility of the source I give you, which you can't. I know there are a lot peeps out there who watch documents and think they know everything. Those who don't actually did science. Rhetoric works on them, sure. Religious peeps who start to realize the impact of biblical statements on being the absolute truth, those need the flat earth movement so they are not being exposed as being mislead themselves. So, nice statement, on which I clearly do not agree, but am capable to reply on.

>>19201071
Just some guy who smoked weed and thought he was God. Then aliens convinced him to act within their interest and betterment of the future. Basically he was retarded,

>>19204620
>your opinion is wrong, you don't have the intellectual capacity, or honesty to address Panin's work.
Your assumption is wrong. I prefer to use understandable language to reach a broader audience. My intellectual capacity more then enough to know that gains more benefits. Too many times I found being intellectual can be a handicap. And my honesty, again , being an atheïst, I have nothing to lose. The only thing that can happen is that I will find out God is true, in which case that would be a damn good thing. Because if I am wrong, I need correction.
But once more, as far as I can tell, Panin did merely proved the discipline and dedication of the ones who actually composed and wrote the books. Even these days there are numerous slightly different translation. So God again fails to keep a promise or is not real at all. But being honest, still didn't toke time to investigate Penin. I don't see why I should. The bible is plagiarism, good literature but nothing more. I read other books. You can't read them all. You should not have to. And others should be okay with that. The only reason why one should read the bible is because there are still people alive who think it's a weapon and use it from time to time. If no-one ever talks about the bible, there is no use at all reading it. Other books are way more pleasant to read. Way better also.

>I'm starting to take you for an idiot, and a shallow thinker.
I don't know you, so that opinion to me is completely irrelevant. People in my daily life know I am crazy, love me for that and know I am all but a shallow thinking idiot.
And those opinions are all that matters to me, friends and family.

>>19201153
no he was an autist
artist*

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>>19205444
>thats pretty much exactly the opposite of what you think. you can't just take something out of context and make it contradict Christ's word to fit your narrative, contradicting yourself means your messages are not divinely inspired.

You presume god is not real - that god is a piece of paper written by whomever wrote the Pentateuch. The gospels clearly state:

"He is not a God of the dead, but the living, you have made a serious error."

"God is spirit and his followers must worship in spirit and truth."

"Do not think I will accuse you before the father, your accuser is Moses on whom you have set your hopes."

"Before Abraham was I Am (Jesus = God NOT Jesus = Yahweh Jr.)."

"You search the scriptures because you think in them is eternal life, but you refuse to come to me to have life."

The answer lies in the Pentateuch itself because whomever wrote it knew who who his enemy was.

"When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, “My spirit shall not abide[a] in mortals forever, for they are flesh."- Genesis 6:1-3

This fits in line with Jesus' theology that God is a spirit. And it fits in line with the idea that Jesus can be mortal man and God simultaneously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHNqA2l4w08

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>>19202389
The more I read the Bible the more literal I think it is.
This is coming from a guy who was 10 years atheist and electrical engineer. Once I saw that flat Earth was a genuine possibility, my entire world was shook

>>19204620
>because his work in the mathematical field has dramatic views on the text. he isn't a writer, he's a mathematician from the 19th-20th century.
To show my kindness, I looked in Panin and found this :
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/83.htm

And I have to agree on that. But I still stand my ground on other comments I made on the matter. But I also realize the Tenach was a composed hymn, a song. This only show the respect for the message, not the validity of the message. By your argument most songs are divine and true facts. And you know they are mostly just poëtry. It's common knowledge that japanese writers have made an art form out this style of writing.

>>19201071
>Who was Jesus really?
A gnostic who garnered a cult following

>Divine accounts of him were not made until over 30 years after his death.
False, but the gospels do depict him less and less "human" and more and more "God" as it progresses by writer. By the time we end up with Saul / Paul (who never met Jesus in real life), Jesus is described as basically a walking hippie god.

>Was he just a religious conspiracy to create an ultimate martyr to rally behind?
No he really existed. He claimed to be God because he held the Gnostic belief that God is within all of us. He was raised a Jew in Jewish lands, so obviously this pissed off the Jews.

>Why is there absolutely nothing about his life during the period when he was 13-30 years old?
Because he was basically a peasant worksman / carpenter?

>Did Jesus have children?
No

>Was he really the Son of God? Or was that just a clever retcon and PR move the early Church orchestrated?
No

>>19205759
So according to you Jesus will not return, there will be no literal anti-christ and giving my life to Jesus does not save me from hell.
So all those who say that Jesus showed His Self to them are delusional?
God did not sacrificed His only Son to show His love?
So you claim Christianity is based upon misinformation and are the millions who are christians are wrong?

>>19202371

don't blame Jesus for stupidity of the fools who claim to be his followers

read sermon on the mount with hearth and compare its message to how average christian act

Jesus is a legit prophet, fuck the church
take this coming from a theistic satanist

>>19201071
In the Rosicrucian Documents.

Jesus was a long awaited high master of the white order, he was to come to earth and bring on to it a transcendental knowledge, his mom Mary was an Essência(essênio) woman who was born already floating and taught since she was young the secrets of the infinite energy. At a Certain age she told her parents she would have a Child which would bring onto earth peace. And the holy spirit took her and gave her Jesus, this is as true as can be, as we are talking about a truly mystical approach to the story, Joseph was also a mystic and was given to Mary as means of protecting the kid and Mary in her pregnancy. As evil forces set to come after Jesus knowing he would be born the fled to Belem.

Jose, Jesus´s name as was given by his parentes was raised and studied at Mount Caramel where there he learned abou mysticism and Esotericism really early. By the age of 13 he went to Jerusalem where he surprised all the high Rabbis of god which asked him to stay with them and learn to be a Rabbi in Jerusalem but he already was destined by the white brotherhood to go on a mystical pilgrimage like many students did to learn in the past.

From there he went to Nepal, India, Tibet and returned to the west to finish his studies in the Pyramids where after strong testing was given the highest secrets of the temple.

John the Baptist was also in Egypt and came to Israel to prepare the people for the coming of Christ. At this moment his mom gave him his last secret, his true name, she said that the angels told her his true name at birth, and thus he now was not Jose anymore but Jesus. that is why his name ain´t documented as Jesus in the documentes department in Jerusalem.

He didn´t die on the cross, the Egyptian high priests knowing before hand of the crises in Jerusalem sent a personal letter to Rome which then released him from the cross on the mount.

>>19205888
Countinue. Plus Trips.

The reason they speared him was to see if he was still alive, as gushing of blood meant his heart was still pumping blood. So they quickly took him off the cross and performed many forms of healing, Jesus also had an awesome energetic body that held all the pain and suffering and also healed faster due to Reiki and other energetic internal healing.

After he woke up, Jerusalem had though him dead, and he though that was for the best. So he seeked his disciples and told them to meet him at mount Caramel his old mystical School, he teleported there and awaited them , there he taught them about what had happened and saw through that they would write and learn to meditate with god. He would help them write texts that could bring gods truth to the world.

That is the true tale. He brought hope to the world and gods plan worked, as you see the mystical conscious truly did sacrifice his highest son to the world to bring truth and knowledge, and the son knew of this destiny he was humble and didn´t get mad at god for have using him this way, as we are here to serve the higher good and higher love, such as he did.

We are one with the highest love.
Profund peace anons.

>>19205895
So he never died, never was raised from the death, which in turn also debunkes the greatest claim. For he never went to hell to claim the key. Jesus, by your claim, never died for humanities sin on the cross.
If that is true, basically every pastor who said so lied or did not had real contact with God. Conclusion Christianity is based upon lies nevertheless.

>>19205935
It´s not based on a Lie, but based on a truth, you see he actually did fly, and teleport, and heal, and etc... And he brought the key with him, he liberated humanity from the sin like culture that we had and still have at the present time, his teaching have holded for more then 2017 years, and will uphold for a long long long more time.

He did have a pseudo death which approached him to god on the cross, and he did claim the key to heaven in these 3 days of recovery/profound meditation from death.

Every Pastor may not say the whole truth because he doesn´t know it, but by calling forth his name and his energy he connects people to the kingdom of the highest frequencies, liberating them from the death and giving them a place to rest in heaven.

You should notice that his job took him 30 years to completely sacrifice himself for said job. And the Rosy cross is Based on these mystical truths and others.

If he completely died or not is not the question, but that people believed he died, if he had like just suddenly showed up in Jerusalém after everything him and god hd worked so hard for. all his sacrifice would have vanished that is why he hid himself and helped to write the new testament.

>>19203818
are you no pun intended?

>>19202933
>Krishna

wouldn't it be Christos?

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>>19205992 #
Like I always say:
"Leave it to Christians to promote Christianity, nobody can do that job worse then they do. They really never fail to make stupidity even more hilarious."

Thanks Last sheapard. Once again my point is proved.

*%_| /%

>>19202216
Kek

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>>19204272
I don't know if you wrote the info in that image, but I want to thank you for sharing it as I saw it a week ago and everything I've been researching, everything suddenly clicked.
The more and more I look into the Bible, the more literal I take it.
Thank you anon, went 10 years being a lost soul ,I'm very scientfic and pragmatic being an electrical engineer, but you are saving people souls.
God speed.

>>19201177
holy shit, this.

jesus' teachings will bring you places in life, it's all about your energy.

>>19202667
are you retarded?

>>19201273

Yeah latinizations and anglicizations are common
Plato's name in Greek is Platon
Homer=Homeros
Thebes=Thebai
And so on

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>>19205310
>the videos don't make really any sense as to being divinely inspired, which is a very hefty claim to make.

It's not so hefty a claim on a planet that takes nothing but a genocidal talking burning bush seriously...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3axb2ZwXTQ

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>>19205702
>>19207335

>>19207385
I get it. You say Christianity has become such a part of society that we can not go without it anymore otherwise society will fall apart. . ., right?

It's a mess as it is. So why not start all over again and kill the religions we have now. All turned out to be a mistake, a failure.

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>>19207450
glitch in the matrix? deja vu? Been having that more and more in life :O

>>19202587
What you're saying is beyond retarded. Arabs developed the majority of science in the beginning, and the Church routinely excommunicated intellectuals that traveled to the Middle East to study. Even the ancient Greeks went to Arabic countries to learn math and such. And neither science nor religion cause death or violence. Human shortcomings cause that, and people too shallow minded to truly contemplate something choose those two things to blame because it's easier than the whole critical thinking thing.

>>19204851
Because how else would you get your strawman?

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>>19207607

>>19201071
Can we not just ignore Jesus to death already?
Fucking Christ, this meme lasted to long.

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>>19202203
Nailed it

>tfw you feel this karma walk up to you
>so light and fair
>look up
>poor gril
>asks for money
>I hesitated and said "no"
>she walks off and I just say sorry "I'm a terrible person."
>suddenly my own karma drops
>feel like my happiness was ripped from me
>feel nothing inside

I could even pass his test, what hope have I?

>>19201508
>Jesus was the first Marxist (Who was born 2000 years after the Jesus)

You should just stay in your containment, you absolute moron.

>>19206053
t. genyus

As we can see in the scripture of mathieu that one time mathieu come to jesus to say him that his parents are sad to no see him anymore, jesus answered that they are no his mom and dad anymore. And as we can see in another scripture that jesus kept relation with a "mother" marie. That we can conclude is that is at least choose a mother of adoption who lived in this time and if we want to go more in the secret meaning, what i believe, it s that jesus identify itself with a force who come from a mother and have all the character of the holy spirit, if we compare to hindu, tha vishnu side, who make thing keep moving, so have a kind of mother love and heal. We need to inderstand the holy mother as the eternal matter, virgin on this conceptual definition, spoiled on this material conception. So we can conclude jesus identify himself with the third side of the trinity, who is the spiritual sun, and so as other, he identify himself with a son of sun, and the best life for a son is to reproduce, impregnate in the matter, the twelves step (passions) of the sun to become material.

Actually we can be sure that apostle don t have link between them. The style is quiet different and that wiew give more sense to the story. An ermit (therapeut) who come one day in the society, which have different cult, and accomplish the path of a son of the sun, miracle, sermon and etc. YOu have to understand that you are at least, or to simplify, two entities scotched together. One form the earth, one from the sky. In doing the crucifixion he gave you the chance to understand moral and to scotch, entities from the sky and to become complete. Without this entities, who is the voice that tell you don t do that (you don t heard? sorry for you), you are a sinfull being. THat why we say jesus died for our sin and to give us the chance to pay back everything. he create a new family in the human kind.

>>19201071
233 replies and no one has said Jesus Malathiel once yet?

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>>19201071

>>19201071
He was a fraudulent outcast of the Essenes. He couldn't work miracles among those who knew him (in his hometown, at the Essene monastery) because they were wise to his tricks and knew how to limit him from lies. The forty day fast in the desert actually happened, but "Satan" in the desert promising him all the kingdoms of the world was an Essene insisting upon testing he who claimed to be sent from god's kingdom. It would have been right, true, and holy for Jesus to turn stones into bread and break his fast by eating them. He could not do so. In his pride, he made up a whopper of a story as to why it would not have been holy for him to do so, so that he could preserve the lie that he would have been able.

>>19212309
Amen is a Egyptian God,
just saying

>>19212481
That's Amum/Amon.
Amen is just some random semitic word that means "so be it"

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>>19212206
You are full of shit

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>>19212502
https://www.google.nl/amp/s/michellesantos.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/debunking-lies-the-real-truth-about-the-origin-of-amen/amp/

Christianity is just an amature ripoff of other ancient mystical teachings. But as long as you don't dig into 'the occult ' you won't find out. That is why the bible forbids you to investigate the occult.

In the Iscariot books Jesus was the son of John the Baptist & Mary (personification of god) in these books Jesus & the disciples were killed by James & the Romans. Except for Judas who escaped to Nazareth & God's teachings revealed themselves through his sons till Iscariot the Roman.

>>19201071
Some fuckin jew doing some David Blaine shit who ended up being championed by those in power (the Roman empire, specifically Constantine) as a messiah posthumously when they realized how efficiently Christianity could be used as a framework to control the masses and eventually eliminate other religions, allowing the dogma to be more tightly controlled.

>>19212640
Actually the bible doesn't do that, the church does. It tells you not to do sorcery but you're perfectly free to research the occult as a Christian.

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>>19201071
If you read this thread one thing becomes very clear. There is way more to the Jesus-story then the bible or church wants to let you believe. Christianity turns out to be more a conspiracy then a message of truth.

Legit questions would be:

-If God is so wise, why did He choose a method to reach out that is so vulnerable as a written book (bible ) turns out to be?

-Can that can even be considered fair to all those who doubt the existence of Jesus and choose not to believe it at all?

-And taking in account that God planted a tree in the Garden that potentially could bring so much misery upon mankind, does God deserves any respect at all?

>>19212692
Deuteronomy 18:9-12a

Pretty clear. Don't come even near any occult practice or teaching

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>>19212323
>He was a fraudulent outcast of the Essenes. He couldn't work miracles among those who knew him (in his hometown, at the Essene monastery) because they were wise to his tricks and knew how to limit him from lies

Because the Scribes and Pharisees obviously had the blessing of the gods...

LMFAO...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuKFX1NuoaI

>>19202360
>is a human sacrifice dedicated to man, from God.

This is how much of a moron you are.

Apollonius of tyanna

You're welcome