This thread is for the discussion of Taoism. Share your interpretation

From montalk.net

>It’s all about acting on the level of mind/quantum instead of matter/force. Like turning a key to open a door versus bashing it in with a sledgehammer. It’s also about transcending false dualities, and reaching a higher creative solution to things. Like a riddle, where the obvious guesses at an answer that take the riddle literally are always wrong, and the true answer is always on a higher plane of creativity that has an element of unexpectedness to it. So Taoism is about that which is always beyond the bubble of our “common sense” — and at a higher level of “uncommon sense” so to speak.

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>>18737753

>You’re right that non-anticipation is a large part of that. The future hinges entirely on the present. By synchronizing your mind and actions with the flow of time as it passes through the present, you act in an immediately responsible manner. Versus, say, positioning your mind within the past/future aspect of time where you calculate based on the past in hopes of creating a certain effect in the future, which is like walking in the dark based on some math calculations and hearsay about what’s in front of your path, versus seeing the path itself or rather feeling it as you walk it, which is Taoism.

>So yes, Taoism is a very anti-matrix kind of thing. It goes against ego and linear time conditioning. Its only potential downside is that if misapplied, or not applied in balance, it can make one passive as a vegetable during situations where synchronicity has guided one to be there to fight. So Taoism is about responding in the optimal manner according to one being in touch with that most optimal probable future whose influence guides one in the present, and if this requires a bit of fire and action then so be it; therefore Taoism shouldn’t be confused with total and absolute non-resistance and passivity in all cases, as the latter only applies to cases where ego-based stupidity is what’s calling forth the fight and it’s better to outflank the ego and do what the matrix-ego-inspired situation doesn’t expect/demand.

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From the left:

http://rawilsonfans.org/joyce-and-tao/

From the right:

https://juliusevola.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/19-taoism-the-magic-the-mysticism.pdf

Tao Te King? I'm only familiar with Martin Luther Te Ching.

>>18737763
exactly. Every single belief can be misleading if not understood, you can see all these faggots who beieve in nu ''budhism'', nu taoism etc, that think they're the best perons alive, such pacifists and above others because they dn't need violence. But in fact we do need violence acording to Tao.
'' the Tiger wait before attacking for the best moment, his biggest quality is patience, and not strenght'' (shitty traduction). So patience lets you minimize the violence he needs to kill it's prey, but violence is still there.
We need violence, we need to defend our life, but we also need extreme patience t know when to use this violence, therefore we should never waste our strength, because if we wait for the right moment, very little violence will be needed to end the conflict.

I think non participation doesn't totally apply in the case of violence, but rather in the socil aspect, and in nature (apart of feeding your self). Non partiipation isn't about restricting yourself not to do something, but rather not even needing to do it, therefore no will t do it will appear.

Dualities is one of the main apects of Taoism, something we have done the other way i the western society, because Aristotle's categories make us think about everything in dualities: Good, bad,,Black, white,, strong, weak....
Taoism is based in that all these contrary terms are mutually needed to exist (''how do we know if something is beautiful if we've never seen anything ugly?'') Tao trie to eliminate these dualities and putting us is the middle of them, letting us live in connection with everything, a we will never eliminate one of two terms, and atribute the otherone to a thing

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>>18737440
I no longer have a really deep understanding of Taoism. I'm not sure that I ever did. A lot of it seems like an eastern mystical form of neoplatonism with a bit of the naturalistic fallacy thrown in for good measure. If that sounds both reductive and western, it probably is. I mostly value it for it's ontological non-dualism. I'm a somewhat lax practitioner of zen buddhism so I guess I can vaguely relate to all of the above.

>>18740374
hey anon, what did you find in buddhism that made you prefer it?

>When a man is alive, he is soft and supple.
When he dies, the body becomes hard and stiff.
When a plant is alive, it is soft and flexible.
When it is dead, it becomes dry and brittle.
Therefore, hard and rigid shall lead to death.
Soft and gentle shall lead to life.
Thus, a strong army with rigid force shall not win.
A thick and big tree will be cut down for its use.
The big and strong will take an inferior position.
The soft and gentle will take superior position.

>>18740380
I find Buddhism a bit more practical, I think. I'm not really into any of this stuff for the metaphysics. When I just want to sit around and think about stuff, I prefer western philosophers. On the other hand, I find eastern religions, and Buddhism in particular, to really be more useful when thinking about one's behavior rather than one's beliefs. The two are necessarily intertwined, but there's really not the over-emphasis that you find on orthodoxy and correct belief that you find in western religions. So, I guess I like thinking about the eight fold path when I think about how I would like to behave. I also enjoy meditation and contemplative practices. Lastly I like zen aesthetics in particular. I enjoy it's emphasis on simplicity and naturalism.

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>>18740398
My chi is too strong
I'm a drug addicted who tried to use chakra and chi to raise my energy to not be an addict anymore

Now I'm still fighting the urges, but my new addiction is chi cultivation.

But it scares me because I feel I cultivated way too much, and sometimes I feel dissociated with that immense power. Possible?

What do you suggest? Some sacral work?

>>18740430
well i can relate to what you just said, but not cmpletely, I can also feel great amounts of energy, and i'm lso addicted to drugs, but in my case, this addiction aand the drug itself doesn't let me ''use'' this energy, i can't focus as much as I would want to, and i feel that without the drug i would feel much better as in free mind and energy control.

So you think you're crating too much energy, and I think I could create much more.

In you cae I would tell you what is said in the meditation you answered to: ''Thus, a strong army with rigid force shall not win.
A thick and big tree will be cut down for its use. ''
What I think is happening to you is that you are being too rigid when it comes to energy/chi control, you try to ''use'' it as iff it was a object and you try to control it, therefore, you are being like the strong army, being determined whe it comes to your existence and ''fighting'' against non-control. I know this might look like a very mainstream suggestion, but in my opinion you should ''focus'' in letting go, going with the river flow, and not fighting the stream (i say ''focus'' because in reality t's not focusing, but rather the oposite: letting yourself free)

Taoism, Buddhism, Zen etc. all have one thing in common (and many more) wich is renounce, decline, etc. When it comes to an addiction, helping yourself with this energy should be enough, thinking you really don't need it, because life itself is satisfying enough. So jut picture this sentence in your head when you are struggling whit any drug: I MUST LET GO.

Just as you let go with death (parents, friends, sibblings, etc) as something inevitable, this way it wil be much easier.

>>18740430
It's completely possible to feel dissociated as you say, but if you flow like i said, you will feel this power doing it's work without you having to do anything. But I also think that this power, your thoughts, and your immense wisdom is in conflict with something that's in your head, that comes from the outide and shuldn't be there. Of course I mean the drug.
Let go off the drug, and let go off yourself trying to control this power, and you will feel much better, thets the advice I could give you.

Also keep in mind that this is just my opinion, I couldn't consider myself an expert in this matter, so don't take it as a dogma :)
have a happy life anon, you are loved and apreciated

>>18740465
Thank you anon
You may not see yourself as an expert, but your help and wisdom is expertise to me!

I think over-dependence is a trait I need to work through; but I will try easing and flow, rather than angst and anger to stop.

I appreciate the help, thank you.

>>18740462
well I would know what to tell you but It might be a poitive thing, a Dan Tien trying to be opened, but it keeps closed for some reason.

The reason for its closure could indeed be something psychological. Analyze your thoughts, memories etc. and try to find this one thing thats is blocking your lower dan tien.

I think that rather it being feeding of your energy, it's just a blocked door that you need to open, and if not opened, your energy will just flow outside your body, rather than feeding any entity.

Give me more details if you can, because I can't be sure

>>18740475
Yes, thats it. In our modern society and since a few centuries ago (not criticising our modern filosophical currents) we try to ''understand'' everything, name them with words, try to touch it, and in the end, trying to control it for it to give us something. With our soul and mind we try the same things, but as the popular phrae says '' if we ever get to understand our minds, then our mind wouldn't be as impressive as they are''.
Your mind is an infinite pit of knowledge, happyness, sadness, and every other emotion and thought. to put it simple I could say that you should jump head first to the pit, explore and enjoy it, rather that staying in the outside trying to fish anything haha.
Over dependance can be focused in three ways (or even more I guess) wich are, dependance to yourself, to others, and to objects.
try freeing yourself from these, and understand that the only thing your depend on is something you can't see, touch or listen, this is Tao, wich also comprises your soul, nature and even space.

Glad to hear it anon :) very happy to know I could help you, as that's one of the main reasons we live, to help others (in any way) and not want anything in excange but the satisfaction that you will be happy with your life in the future

>>18740478
>raised energy in December
>activated GodMode
>probably a kundalini awakening in parts
>walk around with magnificent ego, almost supernatural powers
>entire world turns against me, my closest friends and family begin hating and causing issues with me
>power down
>Level 2 begins: The entities arrive
>Begin seeing ghosts
>Begin being telepathic
>Begin seeing other dimensions
>Actually see things in my house get knocked over and pushed by thin air
>Go into hiding
>Slight depression, lost most of my human friends
>feel a lump sitting in my stomach
>stomach responds to negative thoughts
>The people who tried to knock me down when I was doing good, seem to be happy and doing well themselves

It definitely felt like a block, like my energy being taken elsewhere. Hence why I couldn't tell if it was a conscious entity, or an incorrect action on my part.

>>18740415
thats interesting anon. Combining currents to find the right one is one of the best things you can do.
tell me what other currents do you think of?

For what I think, no current to the day can be applied to the total of our existence, some of them are incorrect, and some other (like tao in my case) are incomplete.

Well i wouldn't say incomplete, because Tao Te King, as is in the form of metaphores, is extremely subjective (i dont know if you say this in english), some day you will read something totally different from the last time. this is what i like about it: It adapts to what troubles you.

But the again it is incomplete, i down't give you al the information, or the way to get this info, it's just a bunch of keys for some closed doors, an we generally have no idea what opens what.

But tell me what other current you believe in anon:)

>>18740501
Envy is a powerfull thought anon. I also lived this.
People don't want to hear that you're happy thank to another one of those eastern ''religions'' that are so popular nowadays haha, they will try to minimize you, let you down. Next time you feel so good, and bursting energy, try to demonstrate it with a smile in your face, rather that words (becaue people feel like you are indoctrinating them, even if youre not, and will try to put you down), simply feel thi outburst of energy in ''solitude'' (thoughts), and externalize it with confidence, smiling and good attitude (this may seem like a very vague argument) People wil eventually realize you are happy and will ASK you for advice, then you tell them hoy your really feel. But I insist, the wise man doesn't go around telling people how to feel, but waits for them to ask him.

I also think you depend too much on this ego (might be wrong of course). Depending on your ego will make your life a rollercoaster, feelling up and down depending on what happens around you. Keep in mind that your ego isnt the same as yourself, but rather an image of your deep self, and as an image, if you control the object, the image will change with it

>2017
>Still using Wade-Giles

>>18740501
as for what you saw, did you think this could be Tao itself manifestating right before your eyes?

I'll put it this way: Imagine when your look at the sun, you see theese light spots (dont know the name) on your eye, the reflection of the sun itself, inside you. Now the metaphore here is that when you try to focus on the spots, they move to where you're trying to look further and further until they disapear, whearas if you dont focus, they stay there, and you see them.

This things you saw could very well be Tao, though you might dissagree, and it's always been there. simply try not to focus on them, they are there and always have been, but now, with your energy, you can see them, and they can be scary. simply melt with it, you and it are one, sort to say.

your body will indeed respond to these attacks, its normal, and dangerous, but if your don't depend on others,these thoughts will disapear, and so will the pain.

>The people who tried to knock me down when I was doing good, seem to be happy and doing well themselves

People feel good when seeing people go down, but this only happens to envious people, who will never be happy, because they will always have something missing. they flow with anger, and at the end, you will be the one who lives happily and they will feel how wrong this was when they porcess their last thought, but you my friend will feel incredibly good, because you managed to keep yourself up.

Souround yourself with people who love you, Like myself if we were friends haha :)

>>18740546
not really , I got it translated from a chinese friend to my language, but yeh it's stil quite vague, compared to chinese.

What do you use?

>>18740550

Pinyin, for the most part. But I was just being a dick, heaps of people still use Wade-Giles. Hell, most of the good teachers do, since they're old enough that they're used to it.

I try to stick to Pinyin to keep things consistent, but I have to admit "gong fu" still just looks wrong.

Do you have any kind of cultivation practice OP? I have to admit I'm not as up on the philosophical literature as I should be - I've been working on the DDJ the last year or so, and just picked up the Zhuangzi a few weeks back to start on that. I still read a few chapters of the DDJ before and after training though - helps to orient the mind in the right direction, imo.

>>18740588
Nice!, I will get on with Zhuangzi, as I've only read it a little bit, but will do this week.

As for cultivation paractice, in Taoism, what I o is read a meditation, and keep it in mind until I have understood it (or it think I have, because the meaning changes everytime) then after I have it's meaning in mind I go to the next one, until I have finnished, and then I start again. It's not like reading the Bible or any other book over and over, but more of a sustained thought that follows me every day until i comprehend it.

For philosophy as a whole, what I did was reading the bible, Torah and coran, and the read filosophers from ancient greece, middle ages and so on. Right nowi'm stuck with st Thomas, but I find it missleading, as it takes god's existance as a fact, and developes from there. I would like to read some indian filosophy, then confucianism, and then modern filosophy.
But for what you asked about if i had any practice, I would say not really, just enjoy reading thoughts of other people, and tae arguments and ideas for myself.

What I found in Taoism was that, even for a very skeptical person like myself, it's so subjective that you can't really find any flaws, because you can adapt the book to any situation, so I just kept on with it till today.

It's interesting that you read different versions of the book, im sure it helps you understand it much better.

Is zhuangzi good? i mean ive read some of it but didn't manage to get really into it idk. What is it based on?

>>18740665

>What I found in Taoism was that, even for a very skeptical person like myself, it's so subjective that you can't really find any flaws, because you can adapt the book to any situation, so I just kept on with it till today.

I'm very much the same. I really struggle with the idea of a personified divinity, which turns me off Christianity and even Buddhism, but Daoism is perfect for me. I also love the emphasis on nature, since the natural world is where I feel most closely connected to the divine.

I find that it's the most "complete" spiritual system as well - if you're interested in philosophy, religion, magic, martial arts, meditation, astrology, divination, etc etc. It's all there, in one coherent, practical worldview.

>It's interesting that you read different versions of the book, im sure it helps you understand it much better.

I've read a few different versions of the DDJ, but I stick with one main translation, which I carry around with me and bust out whenever I have a few spare minutes, as well as reading a couple chapters before and after any meditation/qigong/taiji session to get myself in the right mindset.

>Is zhuangzi good? i mean ive read some of it but didn't manage to get really into it idk. What is it based on?

I'm only starting on it, so it's hard to say. It's a lot more dense than the DDJ, mostly taking the form of short anecdotes and stories either about, or told by, Zhuangzi, which illustrate various Daoist principles. It definitely requires a bit more investment, but the payoff is that it explores issues in a lot more depth, instead of the "simple clarity" of the DDJ.

>>18740771
>I really struggle with the idea of a personified divinity, which turns me off Christianity and even Buddhism
Yeah, I had the same proble with nearly all religions, I think they all mean the same, even daoism, but the other ones just take the short path saying it was Him who did it, idk, i think it's just taking off the ''resposability'' we have here, and give it to some divine being, we gave him a name and even a body (sorry i'm having some problems explaing this haha). what im trying to say, they take the neverending loop of nature, cosmos etc. and individualize it. I would like someone who is chistian, muslim etc. to explain his point of view. As for buddhism, something that shocked me is tht even buddha said he was no god, so there was o point is praying or represent him, and yet they have done it, I dont understand it.

As for the main translation, wich one do you mean? wade-giles?
I also carry a copy with myself, it's a good compact book that fits in your pocket hahaha very handy

I'll start reading Zhuangzi this week as i've run out of books to read :) if you browse /x/ regulary i'll create a new thread about it and hopefully you will be there to talk with me !

>>18740828
sorry for spelling errors

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>>18740547
>>18740533
Thanks anon, we would definitely be buddys if I knew you, your manner is great and very informative.

So we are like giants, walking alongside a rollercoaster; which is the ego. It looks fun going up and down, but our true selves are giants who watch over the rollercoaster. There is no need to participate in ego games, we are already bigger than it.

It is about realising the energy and esteem within, and not needing to be lead or controlled by it.

Godspeed anon. Thank you.

>>18740828
>Yeah, I had the same proble with nearly all religions, I think they all mean the same, even daoism, but the other ones just take the short path saying it was Him who did it, idk, i think it's just taking off the ''resposability'' we have here, and give it to some divine being, we gave him a name and even a body (sorry i'm having some problems explaing this haha). what im trying to say, they take the neverending loop of nature, cosmos etc. and individualize it. I would like someone who is chistian, muslim etc. to explain his point of view. As for buddhism, something that shocked me is tht even buddha said he was no god, so there was o point is praying or represent him, and yet they have done it, I dont understand it.


More or less. The Buddhism thing particularly bothers me because I read a bunch of books about meditation from Western, supposedly "secular" authors, and yet every second page is "The Buddha this..." or "...and then the Buddha said..."

I mean yeah there's religious Daoism too, but I guess the difference is that religious Daoism requires an addition, whereas secular Buddhism requires a subtraction.

>As for the main translation, wich one do you mean? wade-giles?

No, the Star translation. It's nowhere near the most accurate, but it conveys the meaning of the words very well and it carries a lot of the poetry that is lost in more literal translations.

>I'll start reading Zhuangzi this week as i've run out of books to read :) if you browse /x/ regulary i'll create a new thread about it and hopefully you will be there to talk with me !

I drop in once or twice a week, if I see your thread I'll jump in and give a shoutout :)

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Tbh this book helped me. Although I see some similarities with Taoism and Nihilism.

>>18740867
glad to hear it friend, I hope you will understand yourself one day, just as much as for me.

As I said to the other anon, I will start a thread from time to time, hope to see you there so we can share our vision of the world, not only from Tao, but any other current you feel and think about.
We are pits of wisdom impossible to fill without the help of others.

Indeed, we are giants, able to not be affected by ego, but if you let ego run over yourself, you will no longer be a giant, but a microscopic being, slave to yourself (many people are like this) It's interensting to see ego as a game, and it ressembles it a lot, you go down and up with it, but then again, you can be able to win this game, rather than not participating.
I think non participation in ego or its elimination isn't the answer (for me) like some eastern currents say, a complete lack of ego could make you a numb being, we need self esteem like you said, but also self criticism, and as result, we will get to know ourselves, Pros and Cons are equally important, and in addition, the result is ourselves as a whole (a lot to do with yin yang)
>It is about realising the energy and esteem within, and not needing to be lead or controlled by it.
totally agree here, you control the image of yourself with your thoughts and actions, as ego is just a reflection. I would use the phrase ''I think therefore i am'' to say we are what we want to be, what you think, do and feel is you.

Love yourself, change yourself, feel yourself, sort to say

thank you anon, i'm loving this conversation (even though i'm struggling to write down what i feel, i'm not very good at it)

>>18740879
yeah thats what i meant, it's like they took buddha as some sort of jesus christ, a prophet whose word is truth, wich is the total opposite to what he said.
I guess every person creates it's own religion, filosophy though its life, and we can't take one of them as a whole truth, where theres nothing to add, and nothing is missing (like chirstianism).

good to hear it anon, hope i'll hear from you

>>18740926
indeed, there are many similarities between nihilism and taoism, but what it differeces both of them is the root of theese currents.
Nihilism thinks of ''purpose'' as a tangible thing, the purpose of a chair is to sit down, but Taoism see purpose as the existence itself, the purpose of a chair is being a chair.

I see Nihilism like a way of thinking that sees the man (you, individualy) as an accesory to the whole, the universe could very well exist without you, and this is where I think it's wrong.
If we take the whole and substract yourself, then it's no longer the whole, you are part of the infinity, and without you, nothing could exist.
therefore our purpose here is just existing, our sole existance is the most beautiful thing, something nihilists wouldn't agree on.

I think nihilism is a lazy way to see the world (allthough i could consider myself a nihilist to some extent), sort of like, nothing has meaning, let me die in my agony hahaha (although this is more of the edgy neo nihilism for cool kids).

Both Taoism and Nihilism have many things in common, but the root of these currents is completely different in my opinion

Nihilists would say: i have no meaning
Taoism would say: I dont need purpose