Can you believe in dualism and still accept that the material

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>>18698490
Why can't animals have those chemical reactions? So, creation is a chance, and is humans having consciousness is also a chance? More like Chanception, amirite!?

>>18698490
>chemical reactions
>humans are the only sentient species

Some god-tier chemical reactions m8

>>18698514
>>18698519


You understand that humans brainds are different than animal brains?

We have stuff like neonatal cortexes and shit

You can believe in three retarded ideas, yeah.

>>18698490
string theory --> simulated reality
simulated reality --> Creator
Creator --> forces you to live in an illusion
'life' in illusion --> two sides to one coin
how can they both be real?--> dualism shows up
if consciousness is a byproduct of chemical reactions what is unconsciousness?

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>>18698560
>string theory --> simulated reality

Without any empirical evidence that link is just pure theorycrafting.

Dualism inside the universe might be real because otherwise we couldn't perceive things like hot or cold.

In fact you could argue that dualism would dictate there is only this and nothing.

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>>18698490
i know shadow people exist, i know dualism exists, are shadow people then related to the dream world? if so that would mean it exists, if not, then sure, you can believen in duality, while only accepting the "observed" reality is true, bu then there may be another reality yet to observe that is just as objective, should that be the dream it falsifies your proposition.

>>18698628
string theory itself isnt a theorycraft?
step outside of your box please

this and nothing might make sense.
darkness is the absence of light
cold is the absence of heat
dark and cold 'do not exist'

if love is the absence of hate, does hate not exist? if you can't run into walls on your own then you aren't thinking hard enough

>>18698702
hate is the absence of empathy

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>>18698697
>i know shadow people exist

How do you know shadow people exist outside of your mind?

>>18698702

>dark and cold 'do not exist'

I have a basement that would disagree with you

>>18698720
I don't agree. I am very hateful, as well as very empathetic. People think I'm reading their minds sometimes because I can put myself in their shoes so well. It's hilarious to play the magician, especially around here.
Understanding feelings requires understanding of the self. I feel like that requires a great deal of empathy. Seeing people fail themselves is rage-inducing.
>If I was in his shoes...
sort of thing.

>>18698745
scientifically speaking they do not exist
darkness is the absence of light, and cold the absence of heat - did you even read the post you responded to?
>theres no light or warmth in my basement
no shit sherlock
do you think the universe has a black background or something?

>>18698778

Then why can't you pick up a cube of dry ice faggot?

>>18698791
you can - it will suck the heat out of your hand though.
I bet "where does the wind come from" is a regular thought you have

>>18698490
A very strange question and I would answer no. I mean hermetic dualism is heavily rooted in the esoteric and spiritual world. I guess you're somehow saying that good and evil are rooted in biological chemicals produced in the brain.

But that's more of a statement itself than a question. What are you trying to convince yourself of?

>>18698810
Well sure

The desire and will to sadistically abuse little kids is merely the result of chemical reactions.

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>>18698490

>consciousness arises from highly specific patterns of matter
>these are the same highly specific patterns of matter that evolution optimizes for in many cases
>consciousness can't provide an evolutionary advantage because it does not affect matter
>lol just a funny coincidence I guess
>nothing_to_see_here.jpg

>>18698955
>>consciousness can't provide an evolutionary advantage because it does not affect matter

Thats fucking retarded.

If course it affects matter.

Have you ever seen an animal randomly heat metal really really hot and then shape it into the form of a tool?

>>18698986

OP was brought up the idea that consciousness is just a byproduct of chemical reactions.

I was pointing out that you'd have to accept the aforementioned retarded conclusions if you thought that were true.

>>18699000

>its retarded to think that consciousness is just chemical reactions, instead we have souls and shit.

Please provide empirical evidence before you say stupid shit.

>>18699020
Well, not him but what constitutes consciousness? Would you say we're on par with animals, at what level does consciousness exceed the limits and bounds we place on it?

Or is our consciousness equatable with man in his early hominid form or that of animals? At what point does it stop becoming chemical reactions in the brain? Because if it were that simple you would have thought we'd find it by now.

>>18698939
What point are you arguing here?

>>18699058
Because of have a neonatel cortex I am above animals.

If I didn't I wouldn't have a human level of consciousness

>>18699059
How you See is how you Hear.
Chemicals in the brain = how you see, your consciousness is how you dissect what you're seeing. Or are those chemicals doing your math homework?
i 'told' the chemicals to fire up some neurons to get my fingers to type this - see what I'm saying?
you're saying the chemicals created this sentence - they just instructed my arms/hands/fingers what to do.

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>>18699020
>>18699020
I did not say anything about souls.

My argument:
If consciousness does affect matter, then we have non-material stuff with measurable consequences.
If consciousness does not affect matter, then it cannot be optimized for by evolutionary processes, since it can't affect how many kids you have.

OP's specific type of dualism requires that a highly specific arrangement of matter creates consciousness for no clear reason, and that this arrangement is also a very particular evolutionary optimum due to a separate set of totally unrelated causes.

I'd think you'd have to break towards either:
Full Materialism: Deny or quasi-deny consciousness in the usual ways. (Daniel Dennet, etc.)
Full Dualism: Mental stuff fully exists and can affect physical stuff at least in a small number of very limited ways.

>>18699059
That's you're only premise? Would you say there are degrees of consciousness then?

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>>18699356

Ya.

For example we have thousands of more rolls in are neocortex than neanderthals and therefore have millions of more nodes.

Thats why we are more conscience than early homos.

Likewise when we become machines are consciousness will increase a thousand times over

>>18699368
But what degrees are those? The only example of an advance consciousness, that you've given me is that you need is a "neocortex with more nodes" as you put it.

>>18699451
>The only example of an advance consciousness, that you've given me is that you need is a "neocortex with more nodes" as you put it.


I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying we have consciousness as a result of it. A sufficiently powerful computer could have consciousness.

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>>18699368
Our brains aren't that different now.

The size of the brain it's also not so important, Elephants have four brain hemispheres.

Conciousness arise regardless, I think you are confusing conciousness with actually complicated brain functions.

>>18699486

I didn't mean to make that comparison. I understand what you are saying but I was more referring to them talking about human intelligence versus the intelligences of non human animals in general.

>>18699481
But, I'm asking you how do you define consciousness. Certainly you must have some sort of criteria.

>>18698778
Actually, the universe does have a "black background". Before there is light there is an expanding darkness, like putting a dot on a balloon and blowing it up. Like insects on an expanding soap bubble. Darkness does exist, without it the absence of light would be imperceptible and thus non-existing.

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>>18699640
>Darkness does exist, without it the absence of light would be imperceptible and thus non-existing.

>>18701161
I can see how that might seem contradictory, but when I say that I mean without a black background we wouldn't be able to exist, meaning no observer = no reality.

What is the absence of light? Darkness. What is the absence of darkness? It doesn't exist, it is impossible to perceive. Darkness itself is it's own, with light being made of it, not outside it.