If I spend my entire life working to improve the lives of everyone

They will understand, but, try to improve and get better to yourself, it's not just about the others and don't heat your meat too much.

>>18353574
Explain the meat

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>>18353570
the thing is youre also infected with sin

the bible states it clear that here on earth noone is "good" or "perfect"

to return to your source (god) after your death he offers you the free gift of salvation and eternal life if you believe in his words and what his son did for you and everbody else

through jesus your sins will be forgiven

the bible calls this spirtual newborn you will get a new living spirit and he will transform your life, mind and soul

he will also provide you with knowledge if you ask him


anon its easy why dont you ask him today to come in your life?

just pray loud and ask jesus for forgiveness of all your sins and coming into your life


without jesus every soul is lost

jesus is the only way imagine him like a door

it would not matter how much "good" works you have done on earth you would still get lost and cutted of from god because the only way to return to him is beliving in his word and his son what he did

thats faith

its a gift you cant earn eternal life through works

im really sure jesus will be really happy if you call him

it does not matter if you do not know him - he knows you and he loves you

>>18353718
what of those that were born in rural areas of other countries that have never learned of jesus? are they automatically condemned to hell and eternal suffering purely because they never had someone preach the word to them?

>>18353570
Even better, you will be rewarded in this life too. Do good things, good things come to you. You reap what you sew etc.

Moot point. The kingdom is within us. The Bible is an allegory for enlightenment. We are all god. A good life helps you get there as ultimate realization and bliss come from shedding the negative conditioning that harms humanity. The apostles spread the word as the Buddha did in believing that all humanity must be taught this truth. Organized Christianity is a political tool that suppresses this truth and makes the masses easier to control

>>18353570
Did you enjoy doing all that? If not, then you're wasted your life, you don't have any guarantees there's something based on religions after death, specially when religions are made by man.

>>18353570
no, stupid. what you're doing is wasting your own meaningless life for the even more meaningless lives of others, you're what is called a degenerate.

>>18353583
I think he meant to say don't beat your meat too much

>>18353869
This mindstate is unfortunate. Those who have hate for others have hate for themselves. Living compassionately for oneself and for others is the best thing a human can do. Be kind, anon of all anons, I know you'll either ignore this or respond in insult but it's ok I got appreciation for you either way stranger.

Do what makes *you* happy. Nothing in this life matters.

>>18353570
>doing good in order to be rewarded

you will be rewarded if you work on yourself, part of which is being good to others.

Lotta good answers here but I'm still feeling mixed about everything

>>18353570
the answer might suck

>>18353570
Stop being an agnostic pussy and become an atheist so you'll do the good for goodness instead of reward.

>>18353849

You seem to know a lot about the bible and its meanings! Tell me, if you'd be so kind, how Revelations of John is related to enlightenment and how we might get there?

And to OP, Jesus says, you are with him or against him, his way is the only way. Why would you try to improve the lives of others, if not for your fear of God or hatred of yourself? Now the fear of God is the first step to wisdom but the path is great. It is not a one-step path. If you live a good life, helping others, you will still falter in ways, mostly in detriment to yourself, and in this case you may be reborn in a good place where you can better understand the kingdom of Christ and omit yourself to heaven. Christ 'came for the sinners'. This world 'was not his'. But he came down here to die and his ghost remains. Every deed of his was simply an allegory for how the Holy Spirit would propagate in hell.

If you are not attuned to the Christ spirit, if he cannot hear your faith, if you close your ears to him, you cannot, will not, hear him.

You must understand you are me and I am you, but your self tricks you into thinking otherwise, because it is selfish. This locks you into your own prison run by self-daemons (see Jung) disconnecting you from Christ.

When you study Christ, he teaches you, and you become into Christ. You begin to feel others pains, happiness, and physical emotion - you can read minds and prophecy if He allows it. Eventually we will be able to heal one another of our ailments miraculously, if enough of us are Christ. One thing Christ does not allow and will get you sent to a deep dark place is the abuse of this Holy Spirit.

The majority of the world currently abuses the Holy Spirit, and this is the cause of your illness, ailments, and death. Here ye here ye. Blessed be God's children, all of you in fact.

>>18353570
Works without faith are dead.

>>18353570
Dont worry pal..the only purpose of hell is to induce fear and force you into obedience...The whole Concept of sin was invented by the catholics to justify cruelty against disbelief

>>18354265
>>18354266

Now brothers I will say no more on this matter, but I shall let you pitter patter on your way. Just remember, Jesus loves you, and forgives you, but his pride is in his sheep, and he values his sheep over the sinner.

Man, religion is cool and all, but if I were you I would read 'psychology and alchemy' by Carl Jung before falling into exoteric christian crap. Most of the people in this thread know only the periphery, and that makes them absurd and supertitious. Yes, Jesus loves you unconditionally and his way is the only way and all that crap, but that goes far beyond an external acception of Christ or repenting one's sins in order to give praise to some ethereal metaphysical bearded wackjob.

God is real, but he's just under your nose so before you sell your soul in exchange for religious dogma, put some force in knowing yourself.

'Man, know thyself, and thou shalt know the Universe and God.'

>>18354299

You seem confused?

>>18353570
God will still let you in heaven. It doesn't matter if you believe in a religion or not. God loves us all.

>>18354327

He came to show us the way. If he'd let anyone and everyone into heaven, he'd have left us all in hell! Surely!

>>18353960

Not op, but my personal definition of agnostic means 'can't prove the existence of god' but in fairness, also 'can't disprove the existence of god' - so it's more forgiving and less rigid. But, since there is a lot of evidence showing how the world can work without the presence of a god, but there is no evidence there is one, you basically function like an atheist at all stages, but with an 'eh, technically possible' attached.

>>18353960
>>18354904

Shit, dropped the rest of my post like an asshole.

I agree with your goodness for goodness sake thing, though. It's definitely superior. Though I'd take people not killing each other for selfish reasons, over people killing people because why the fuck not. Lesser of two evils, kinda deal. Although that preference of mine isn't really relevant here with op.

Also, should have noted, op doesn't seem to be using the term 'agnostic' exactly the way I would, but eh.

>>18354327
>>18354344

High density troll thread.

That is NOT how Christianity works.

>>18354904
>>18354916
>>18354922

He's proven Himself to me. Gonna throw down some mousetraps.

You know, before they make the house collapse.

>>18354940

> mousetraps

What?

And hey, if you believe that the Christian God has shown Himself to you, and you truly believe it, then go for it. I have absolutely no problem with that.

I don't really care what anyone worships or believes; it's none of my business, and whatever works and all that. So long as someone isn't causing harm to myself or others, it's of no relevance to me.

>>18355018

Sorry, I was answering an OP. It is you who wants to be of no relevance to me.

>>18354168
Go on YouTube and look up bill Donahue hidden meanings. No relation to catholic bill Donahue.

>>18355213

Took less than about 60 seconds to know he's a charlatan. Thanks for the recommendation though. I appreciate it. I always keep an open mind to suggestions, if you keep an open dialogue with me as well.

>>18354941
>>18354940
How do you throw down these important mouse traps... How do you trap and destroy sin like that...?

>>18355228
You're that guy that is pursuing Revelations as defining individual spiritual progression?

>>18353570
I ask you this, if a god bars entry into heaven from good people who have not followed the way; do you really wish to enter that 'heaven' to begin with?

>>18355273

Nono. Watch Bills manipulative techniques esp. with regards to his body language. Most evangelicals work in a similar way. They are the ones who will threaten you with eternal damnation without teaching the core philosophy of Christ and his Kingdom, what it really means for us and you. They would rather keep you stupid for their own profit.

>>18355270

Frankincense.

If we can keep up a dialogue I'm happy to return in a few hours.

>>18353570

Former Catholic turned whatever he wishes to be here.

Yes.

That is all.

>>18353570
If he doesn't understand this then is he truly a god worth revering?

If you're so concerned with the "reward" then are your actions truly altruistic?

Do not listen to religious rigmarole or biblical interpretations, they only further muddy the water. If there is a God, he gave you and mind and moral compass of your own to come to these conclusions, not to be led by the fictions of others. For all we know all religions are little more than a trick of the Devil to steer us aware from our innate and inherent state. Then again, who says there's a Devil if not for these very religions? And that, my friend, is the greater point here: it's all cyclical logic based on presumptions of other unsubstantiated and fantastical claims being true to the point where all this theology becomes nothing more than a mental exercise in the absurd meta-construct of our imaginations.

DO AS YOU WILL. DO AS YOU KNOW RIGHT. AND DO IT BECAUSE IT IS RIGHT.

That's been the core message and purpose of every religion, to be a "good" person and discouraging behavior which is harmful to a functioning society. Everything else is just hokum to keep you from going to another religion, ignoring this one or thinking for yourself.

Any god worth calling a God will recognize altruism and quite frankly thinking of what comes after death as either a punishment or reward is really just juvenile and naive. If anything waits for us beyond the pale then it's far more profound than mere words can surmise.

>>18356861

Cool story bro.

- Aleister Crowley

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What is this insubstantial unsubstantiated rigmarole and quite frankly pretentious garble of the parlaying of self ethics!

>>18356947
You must be fun at parties.

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>>18356951

I was the *pup pup* Number 1.

>>18353570
Fearing death is like a drop of water fearing the ocean because it doesn't want to get wet.

Death is no big deal OP, don't worry about it.

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>>18356970

I-I-I went to hell. I-it was a really fun time. I promise you. Much salt. D-do as thou wilt.

>>18353844
>You reap what you sew
'sow' in this context m8

sow seeds, sew torn clothing

Salted chips. Salted shrimp. Salted beef. Salted pork. MMMMMMMMMM

>>18356978
You go where you want to go.

Do as thou wilt IS the whole of the law

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>>18357023

Ho ho ho. Just you show me.

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Just doin as i wilt!

>>18356861
Op here. I'm not in any way worried about getting a reward or not, I'm just interested in what would happen if I had spent my life in faith-limbo.

For everyone who is saying that doing good for a reward is selfish and I should instead be focusing on my own happiness; I chose a career as an biomedical engineer because I've always wanted to help people and I enjoy every chance that I get to posatively influence someone's life.

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Yo dude i do WHATEVER i WANT.

>>18356970
Best comment, I like this.

>>18357044
to 'do as you will' is not to 'get what you want'

>>18357058

Whats the difference pls enleten me

>>18357056
to know what you want is not always easy

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im will smith

>>18357065

I thought we were willing not wanting? cmon MAN

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Yo aleister crowley is da BOMB

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Look at all this money I willed to myslef! ave u read the secret?

>>18357075
I'm consistent with the wording in the posts I'm responding to. Why are you trying so hard to get a reaction? What's up friend?

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>>18357111

I know a damned shame when I see one.

And God bless that man.

>>18353570
OP I believe you'll find that once you get outside of the poisonous mindset of the abrahamic faiths, that most other religions do not demand a strict adherence to faith as long as you have pursued a noble and good life. Im not sure what that means to you, or if it means anything, but if the majority of religions would say that you're fine, and its only a few, very loud and powerful faiths that say otherwise... do some statistical math.

>>18357111
You're wasting your time. This is why the book specifically says not to speak of it. I know you mean well, but you're only confusing their true will. Let them be.

Thou wilt be theirs doesn't quite have the same ring to it..

>>18353570
Living your entire life based on what you get in the next is the definition of being grifted.

>>18353718
The idea of praying because you should and that's how you get to heaven seems so hypocritical to me. It seems counter productive to pray to God so you end up in heaven instead of praying because you love him and believe what his religion teaches.

So much about Christianity goes against what I believe. I feel true love and compasion is often forgotten by a lot of Christians.

>>18353570

Stop worrying about what gods will think of you when you're dead and stop paying attention to what anybody in this thread is saying.

Good deeds shouldn't be motivated by fear of the afterlife. (After typing this I read this is *not* the point of your post)

>>18353718
>>18354251


Fuck you and fuck your idiotic egomaniac of a god.

A Perfect being doesn't need worship - therefore the Lord is not Perfect.

A Just being doesn't demand worship - therefore the Lord is not Just.

A Forgiving being doesn't punish lack of worship - therefore the Lord is not Forgiving.

The lord is neither Perfect, nor Just, nor Forgiving - therefore the Lord is not God.

Again: Fuck you and fuck your sadistic bully of a Lord.

>>18357429

"And in the synagogue there was a man who had the spirit of an unclean demon, and he cried out with a loud voice, “Ha! What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God.”

Child, you have burning pain, but Jesus is not the cause of it. The damage in your life has been caused by selfishness. Stop hurting. He would understand your pain more than anyone. I have been there. I have been a very angry child. If you father hurt you, he did not do it for God. Likewise, Lord knows your words are not for God. Hate begets hate, I know. But Jesus cleanse.

For you I will tell you a word I received today.

Before clean water can go into the bucket and be of good use, the bucket must first be cleaned. This is why you must know yourself. Because your self is the dirt to cleanse. You feel revulsion at these words but please please be calm I want you to be calm.

>>18353570
No. You are saved by grace alone; your works will never be enough unless you are perfect. No one is perfect.

>>18357370
Prayer if a form of communication and worship. God is not some old man with grey hair sitting in the clouds; God is the Creator, He is the ultimate form of all righteousness; He is Order, Purity, Truth, Strength, Justice, Compassion, Love, Kindness, Honour, Duty, Loyalty, Victory and Mercy.

No man can truly comprehend God; but your pathetic understanding reeks of an even greater ignorance. Either your mind is poisoned to the truth due to demonic intervention, or you have been believing all of the jew-media filth about Christianity and the Divine. Do not expect those self-worshiping, subjectivist snakes to ever tell you the truth; they do not even belief in such a thing as truth.

Read your Bible, pray for understanding and wisdom; and seek Him with all your heart. Then you shall find God.

>>18357370

Prayer is a time where you can be one to one with God. You can tell him anything how you feel, you can ask questions or wish well for others. He may advise you by sense or feeling, or he may remain quiet. However, he hears all. Prayer keeps you in touch with God because the self is so selfish that, if you don't pray, it will consume you and bring you this way and that way and you will become like a walking dead person.

There are correct and incorrect ways to pray. Moses was told to remove his shoes when confronted by God, for this is a Holy place: Muhammad who was most like all of us had the devil in him which would prostrate to the Lord: Because the devil is strong. This is technically his realm, after all.

You won't believe what I say because you give your all to the devil self and you wouldn't dare prostrate to the Lord.

>>18357479

Brother a fly in the ointment you are, a urine in the milk you are: faith and works become one. For you do works with or without faith, it is logical they become one.

It is clear what your works are without faith.

>>18357479
I don't follow God not because I don't believe he is real but because even if he came to me personally I'd still deny following him. I just don't believe in what his religion teaches. It's not wrong of any one to follow it, I was only saying that too many people don't follow him because they want to or love him, but because they feel the need to for reasons that ruin the point of following him in the first place. I think any faith should be because of your own personal beliefs and desires/morals yet most people choose to follow something because it gives them piece of mind about the afterlife or being significant. Stuff like that is just people wanting anything to make them feel better not actually believing the thing they preach or follow.

Still it's not like any of this will matter to you since you seem to look down on people who don't follow what you worship. Which seems close minded and against the whole "love thy neighbor" idea that brings me right back to Christians not doing what they preach.

The problem you guys are having (as is pretty typical of the west) is that Christianity takes the god of Abraham (an alien for all we know) and grafts it onto the concept best described, I feel, by the Chinese as the Dao. The all that is, reality in its entirety. Many modern Christians have a lot more in common with Daoist thought that they realise.
There is some good stuff in the Bible, there is also some bullshit, don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but also don't make out like your bath water is hot shit just because there was a baby in it.

>>18357627

The Tao causes the people to be fully in accord with the ruler.
—Sun Tzu, Art of War

Works for me if it works for you brother.

Anyways, God bless, I require rest.

>>18357429
this is the spirit of the antichrist jesus warned his disciples

>>18353570
Doing good deeds in hope for a good karmic return can be disasterous.

The usual good deed for me is just doing something for them they might need or just want done and not expecting any reimbursement be it money or returned favors.

Being a good person is just that. Its not something you earn its something you are

God will accept you, but you must accept him first

>>18353844
Karma has no concious and will not return to you at your whims.

>>18353570
Yes karmic justice exists and no matter what your belief if you do good in this world good things will come upon you

>>18353960
>Not realizing that atheism necessarily implies that "goodness" doesn't objectively exist

>>18353570
You might find it interesting to read about near-death experiences. Pretty much all of them say that God doesn't punish people and that the afterlife doesn't work the way our organized religions say it does.

>>18358001
>Doing good deeds in hope for a good karmic return can be disasterous.

Buddhist here. As far as literal karma is concerned, you will always receive a benefit from doing good deeds. Even if the only reason you're doing good deeds is because you want to reap the karmic rewards, you'll still receive a benefit. It will be a far lesser benefit than if you had a more noble reason for doing them but you'll still do much better than if you had never done them.

As far as OP's question goes, Gods that require blind faith without offering even the slightest proof of their existence and who are willing to damn good people who lived helpful and moral lives simply because they're lacking in faith are generally assholes. Also this

>>18357157
>the majority of religions would say that you're fine, and its only a few, very loud and powerful faiths that say otherwise

>>18353570
maybe, yes, kind of, no.

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>>18358504

>>18353570
If God wants you, He will show himself to you and at that point "belief" won't be necessary.

I suggest you pray. Be sincere. Remember, though, nobody will want to listen to you if you're not ready to accept that they can hear you in the first place.

>>18357449
>>18357719
> religious rhetoric

When presented with reason the sheep will always default on broad ever expanding venues of deflection and vague psycho-babble.

You say your God cannot be understood, because he is beyond us, yet you explain him as if you understand him, your entire religion is a ruse built upon supposition and the belief that a book written by men is proof of a God who he, himself, cannot be bothered to show us any evidence.

You call the Devil the master of all deception, yet if none of us are smarter than him, how do we know that we aren't being deceived? How do we know Christianity and the bible aren't the Devil's work to parlay the moral compass of man? Do you really think unfathomably profound beings like God or the Devil would exist or behave in such black & white dichotomies of good and evil, right and wrong? Do you think the Devil incapable of concocting a lie that parallels the truth so closely that even a razor cannot split the difference between them?

For how high a regard you hold these deific beings you certainly don't seem to give them much credit in regards to intelligence. How convenient for us that the behavior and motives of omnipotent ethereal entities beyond our comprehension are still simple enough for a child in sunday school to grasp.

>>18359288
You can just assume god wants you.

>>18359300

God you're boring man. Do you realize that?

>>18359300

You literally just regurgitate words lol. Dude, learn to think, learn the definition of words before you spout like a jizzum fart.

>>18359371
I'm sorry, where you roleplaying?

>>18359374
There is no substance to anything you've said. You've refuted no point, offered no evidence or even attempted to address anything specifically. Perhaps you need heed your own advice.

>>18359371
>>18359374
Not an argument.

>>18359377
>>18359378

*yawn*

Laters chump.

>>18359382
Behold, the christian fleeing intellectual discourse. When pressed for merit or substantive debate, the Christian enacts it's primary defense mechanism and flees from logic, without a choir to preach to he's vulnerable.

>>18359385

My advice to you would be to read more literature. Fictional literature. Then you won't be so dependent on others for your use of language, and better would you parlay, and lesser would you repeat yourself and regurgitate words you really have no grip on.

Learn new words and new ways of thinking. That's my advice to you. Pretension reeks. You're really really really not as intellectual a you think you are.

Don't forget to heil ;)

buh bye now

>>18359391
If grammar policing is your only defense then you really have no place in such a thread to begin with do you?

>>18357044
Poor guy couldn't grow up to rob and rape. Shame

>>18353570
If you can't believe in god, then just don't believe in god. Its the same with love. God will understand if you disbelieve. He is not "Allah". Also, for the others here. When you pray, dont say anything just to make the prayer longer. Only say what you really want. Praying extra long is disbelief.