A couple of years ago, someone posted some pictures of documents

do you have any more to go on? Im a decent researcher but i need more.

>>17854549
With regards to the documents I mentioned, the group they were focused on was located in Atlanta, GA. I remember mentions of the fact that they targeted people who were homeless and without families/support systems. It also talked about some of their methodology, the main part of which I remember being a one-on-one confessional session they would hold between new members and old, wherein the new members would have to detail their lives all the way down to their secrets and sex lives. It reminded me of Scientology's auditing process.

What other information would you need? I'll try to remember as best I can.

>>17854465
There's a yahoo group run by this person clled Agent Orange called 12-Step Free. If you look on their site they deconstruct the whole 12-Step system and ethos over many pages. Interesting to me (and pertinent to this thread) is that this Agent Orange got hold of a questionnaire used by the UN(I think, may be remembering it wrong--but it's definitely an international organisation with a lot of "clout") to identify cults. ANyway they applied the questions to AA/NA and apparently came back with something like a 84% rating! The 12-Step program is pretty fucking close to a cult already! You ever worked the program, OP?

>>17854465
is this something? might not be what you want but seems like something.http://friendsofbillw.net/the_three_legacies

>>17854465
This basically just sounds a rework of the plot to a family guy episode.

>>17854465
there is a docr with this symbol on it in my town. maybe i am just overthinkinghttp://friendsofbillw.net/the_three_legacies

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>>17855398
I believe I've seen what you're referring to before but I'm about to look back into it.

Yeah, unfortunately, for a period of a few months I sort of got suckered in to the program. I had been depressed and taking a lot of pills and ended up allowing myself to be convinced that I had the addiction "disease" and that the only hope was the program. It was a tumultuous thing, since I'm not a religious/spiritual person at all and I wasn't willing to start being one just for the sake of the program. I met a lot of interesting people, also met a lot of people who genuinely frightened me and heard some stories that fuck with me to this day. Not to sound like an edgelord but I don't consider myself someone whose head is easily fucked with, but a few months in that program certainly had that effect.

As far as the questionnaire you mentioned, that doesn't surprise me at all, and fits my experience. The steps themselves immediately make clear - and do so repeatedly until the person believes it - that someone in the program is powerless and must turn over their will to God. The line you hear about "your higher power can be anything, even a door knob!" is a load of garbage and oddly enough, a lot of the people I met in those meetings started out using an inanimate object or something as their higher power, only to eventually succumb to the pressure they put on you to believe in the Christian God.

It's a spiritual based sobriety program.
The cult aspects are that they do check
ins on each other and you can't tell people
who you saw at the meetings. Everything
that happens in AA stays in AA pretty much.


They can be the best thing that ever happened
to you or the worst thing because they will wake
you up to facts about your friends you have never seen.

The main thing they will show you is that your
friends that are unaware/denial alcoholics want
to drag you down to their level. Most of what
they say is true. Misery loves company and if
you don't want to be miserable any more simply
stop being miserable and you'll attract people
like you.

>>17855621
Despite the fact that the whole Friends of Bill W thing has that strange, unsettling air of something a few people are far too obsessed with, I believe that may just be an explanation of the symbols of AA and their representation. In other words, more of the program's bullshit. But if you read through that site, it'll familiarize you with some of the mentalities we're talking about here.

>>17855659
Those symbols are common across the US, it's basically just the Recovery symbol. Most of the time, you'll see it on buildings that are kind of out-of-the-way or a bit run down, even creepy, mainly because these groups don't usually see any large amounts of cash from members.

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>>17855687
I'm familiar with the program, its tenets and the things they tell people. My contention is not that AA is inherently evil, no more so than any other religious group, but putting aside the fact that addiction is the only supposed disease on the planet for which the recommended treatment is prayer and spiritual meetings/counseling, my focus here is more on the ready-made nature of these groups to serve the purposes of individuals in a cult-like fashion. Often, these people who end up at the head of these groups don't ever necessarily set out to intentionally be in a leadership position over people who are very malleable and easily manipulated.

>>17855687
to further expand on it.

You'll start having problems meshing with drunks.
you'll see the things that troubled you in them and
it makes you sad. You get frustrated and realize
you simply can't be friends with them because
quite frankly... they're just using you.

I remember a thread regarding an AA subset in I think Florida that was apparently dabbling in the occult and otherwise involved in /x/ tier activities. Don't remember the Georgia thread myself or any official documents regarding it. It also may have just been an offshoot AA group

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>>17855712
The documents I mentioned may very well have also been related to a group in Florida. It mentioned that instances like these were popping up in cities across the country. Do you remember anything specific about the Florida group you're referring to? Or whether maybe it's in the archive?

>>17855704
It's a think tank pretty much and some people have a very good understanding of whats going on.

>>17855712
>>17855716
I've heard about this one.
Yeah that was a pretty weird one.

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>>17855709

Or, alternatively, you can go into AA and listen to them explain to you how powerless and weak you are. Then they'll open the floor and other members can tell their stories, berate themselves and explain how weak and powerless they are while everyone else agrees and reinforces their worthlessness. Once everyone has sufficiently lowered their self-worth for the night, without fail you close the meeting like any non-religious group would - with prayer.

>>17855727
Any recollection of details from it? Or any idea where I can find the old thread archive or some more information?

There was a group called Synanon that was started by an AA member. It was a cult. Pretty interesting reading.

>"Alcoholics Anonymous is based on love, we are based on hate, hate works better,” said Synanon founder Chuck Dederich.

>>17855750
It's funny to me that Synanon was criticized for the whole "you're an addict for life" approach but nobody says a word about the fact that AA says the exact same claim. And why wouldn't they? If you get better, you stop coming back. But many people turn their entire lives over to the program, they go to at least one meeting every single day of their lives, their recovery and the program are the focal point of their existence. Surely I'm not the only one here who sees the inherent dangers in this sort of thing?

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>>17854465
So I don't know how long you've been going around to meetings, or if this is just something you've heard about on the internets, but I'm 36 years old now and I've been in and around the program since age 20. Granted I have a glass of whiskey sitting on my desk right now, so I'll refrain from speaking about the efficacy or appropriateness of 12-steps for treating addiction. What I can say, however, is that while some groups can be cult-like, I find it extremely unlikely that one could effectively hijack a group and start grooming AA members to be your sex-slaves, or whatever else you had in mind. This is because AA is essentially a democratic, even anarchic institution whereas bonafide cults are not. Leadership responsibilities are always rotated. Most importantly, you have to earn people's respect in the program by continuously showing up for meetings, sponsoring people and volunteering of your time over a period of multiple years.

I hate to rain on your parade, but there is simply no way that a neophyte interloper could just show up one day and take control of a group.

>>17855683
Thanks for the frank and open reply Anon. I was in the program to for nearly three years, then realised what it was all about and all the glaring contradictions and fallacies and stuff. All those little fucking maxims! Ergh! And the long-term heads who come on with the knowing looks and smug smiles: "I don't get it" "You will, Anon, you will!"And SO MUCH EGO...I think, as a "rule of thumb" (as much as rules of thumb can be applied to something as complex as addiction, lol) that it provides something for people who have nothing else but substance abuse--if you have a loving family or good friends or an interest you're passionate about it has less chance to get it's hooks in.
I will say, though, that having a group of addicts to talk to is invaluable--peer support and all that. My "main", local group was actually really good, it was whenever I travelled out to other meetings in other towns and cities that I saw the negative side of it, to be honest.

>>17855791
In theory, the way you're describing AA and the way their "leadership" is intended to be handled via rotation does prevent the possibility of any sort of cult-like behavior. The problem is that not all of the groups follow these guidelines. I've seen plenty that do, and too many that do not. In groups that are not especially prominent, it is common for the same one or two people to take over the leading roles of the group on an effectively permanent basis.

I'm not referring to "sex slaves", I'm making a point on the fact that obviously someone in that sort of leadership role over people who are in the sorts of psychological states you see in AA/NA/etc. are in a position to manipulate them.

I understand what you're saying, but you seem to be oversimplifying my assertions a great deal. My experience has not been that someone can wander in and take over an AA group to fashion into their own cult but that the groups and their general lack of oversight make them vulnerable to those who are intelligent and manipulative enough. Then again, intelligence isn't necessarily a requisite - one of the instances I saw of the group's "leader" bedding girls who were way, way out of his league was with a man who was in his 50's, seriously overweight, poorly educated and, I kid you not, missing all but three of his teeth. I don't believe he ever had malicious intent to start out with, but at some point he managed to start convincing these young, pretty women who were thirty years his junior that the best thing for them to do would be to move into his home with him and focus on their "recovery."

>>17855716
I'm not sure if it's archived, it seemed like it had a pretty big discussion so it may be

I only vaguely remember the topic, I just remember that the OP was talking about having been formerly involved and how the group was very centered around the leader and how there were certain occult type occurrences related to AA. I can't recall any specifics, but I'll try googling a bit later to see if I can find if it's archived or anything

>>17855716
http://4chandata.org/x/Alcoholics-Anonymous--a74727

I believe this is it

>>17855830
So, yes, the possibility for manipulating vulnerable and confused young girls into sex is definitely there. AA is not so extraordinary in this respect, though. One can manipulate vulnerable and confused young girls in just about any setting in which they congregate. I think the only thing that makes AA unique is that they they have an overabundance of them all in one place.

My comment was really meant to address your contention that "the potential is there to do more" than just 13th step. Again, I have to say this is unlikely. Also, people who routinely 13th step very quickly develop a reputation in the AA community and you will be shunned eventually. Older women who have some clean time will be only too happy to warn their younger impressionable colleagues about you or even call you out to your face. Don't ask me how I know this.

>>17854465
Support groups that aren't your family will always lend themselves to cultish behavior. It's only natural for a sociopath or a psychopath to walk in one day and start manipulating things.

I used to go to NA meetings. Yes it's a cult imo. First off 99% of treatment centers are 12 step based. They tell you if you relapse it's because you didn't follow the program well enough, there's all sorts of little phrases that they repeat over and over to get inside your head...basically according to them following their program is the ONLY way to get sober and if you don't follow it exactly you are bound to relapse. I've had friends be seriously brainwashed by this organization, no joke. I had to stop associating with them, because "the program" is literally all they could talk about.

Personally I said fuck all that and got sober on by going to an actual licensed drug counselor that didn't push all that bullshit on me.

>>17855780
Yes it might be seen as dangerous but for most real alcoholics the way they were living before AA was more dangerous. If I have to go to meetings regularly for the rest of my life to avoid destruction, I am okay with that.

>>17855870
they tell you not to have sex with members.
they advise against sex for a full year.
You have these ideas about what you want
but you should be trying to get what you need.

You wake up to a lot of stuff by talking to them.
you'll alway be a drunk but it's about replacing
what you want to get drunk off of.
get drunk off of being better than before.

>>17856000
lol. Thanks for the advice, but I'm not looking to get sober or to "get drunk off of life" or whatever it is that you're advocating. What I want is precisely what I need. I'm lucky that way.

>>17855729
it's about admitting you're fucked up.
life's what you make it. If you want to look at
it like that then you'll always be miserable.

It's a process overall.

stage one: explain symptoms/behaviors.
stage two: locate deep seeded issue.
stage three: try remedies.
stage five: rehabilitation
stage six: keep doing your best.

If everyone is there admitting how fucked their life is it makes it easier for new people to admit they're
fucked up or have issues they can't solve with medicine.

group therapy.

>>17855830
I've never actually seen a 13th Stepper, believe it or not. I think it's maybe a bit different in the States, though, to what it is here in the UK. I dunno, I've seen blokes sort of try it on with females but they always got short shrift...maybe it's a Northern thing lol?!

>>17855898
Good for you Anon. I mentioned in my earlier post how much I hate their maxims and axioms.
>>17856101
That's it, Anon...12-Steppers talk a lot about "us" and "we"...and I maintain that "we're" all different. Of course, every addict will have SOME behavioural overlaps in common but for fuck's sake, we're all INDIVIDUALS. You can't apply it to everyone.

The thing I saw a lot in my local group was people coming out of the local jail (which ran an institutional 12-Step program), going into the local rehab (which was literally 30 seconds walk away from the meeting! And, of course, a 12-step institution) then coming out into the group. Three times a week. A victory for the 12-Step Program!

>>17856192
I think you misinterpreted my post. I should have clarified that what I want and what I need are both alcohol.

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>>17856121
Again, I'm well-versed in the stated intentions of the program and the basic ideas behind their system. Most of them sound great and it's easy to buy into.

What I take issue with is not necessarily their stated goals and purposes (though the prevalence of the "you are powerless and weak" principle is troubling) but the manipulation and deception that I've seen in them. Remember that the many of people in those meetings are going to be some of the best liars and manipulators walking the planet. They often have to be in order to maintain their habit and since many addicts end up valuing their DOC over anything else in their lives, there ends up being little that they won't say or do in order to keep it. Some people have these abilities more than others, and some of them hone it like a trade or skill in sports. Now, if you take a group of people wherein that sort of deceptive and manipulative ability are common and provide them with any sort of system with minimal/no oversight and a very loose system of rules and guidelines, some of them are going to take advantage of it.

I do believe that AA itself is fashioned in a way that is strikingly similar to a cult. But what I'm primarily talking about here are the instances of these groups which greatly depart from the tenets of the program in that there does end up being an actual leader who wields some sort of control over those in his group. I know that these things exist first because I have seen them to some degree, and second because of the types of reports that I mentioned in my first post which I'm trying to get some help tracking back down.

If you're in the program and it has helped you, that's fantastic - truly, I'm happy for you and hope you keep working it - but it is not an inherently good program. It's as good as the people who operate it and in a system so loose, there are bound to be those who are not good.

>>17856141
Really? That's interesting, actually. My involvement with the program was in the southeastern US and 13th steppers were rampant.

>>17856251
I love you.

>>17856251
Hahah I think I did, Anon! Do what you do, mang. I ain't gonna censure you. Were you in the /ck/ alcoholic thread, by any chance?!
>>17856426
I read/heared about it SO MUCH in the fucking States it's unreal. I knew...let me think, five? American/Canadian expatriate 12-Steppers during my time and two of them actually commented about the "restraint" of the males in their group, they were surprised that it wasn't (or didn't seem to be!) going on. I dunno if it was disingenuous but all of the males who were privy to such conversations seemed as shocked as I was at the extent of 13-Stepping in the States, one (admittedly FUCKING GORGEOUS) Canadian girl had a huge litany of examples, not just happening to her but most of the females in her home group. She told us that two girls actually stopped attending because of it--apparently they became friends through the program, didn't know each other beforehand. One attended a group 60 miles away from her home to get away from this particular 13th Stepper, the other stopped attending altogether. The one who stayed at a different group was there for a couple of months when it started happening again; it really disenfranchised her from the whole program and in time she stopped attending too. According to the beautiful Canadian woman the bloke tried it on with her for a few weeks; when she made it clear she didn't want any of it he moved to another victim, a girl in her early twenties who was totally taken in by his schtick, utterly mooney-eyed over this dude in his late forties (she said he wasn't completely hideous but he wasn't Brad Pitt either) with the 'ol massively-receded hairline-ponytail-dreads and MOVED IN WITH HIM after a coupla months! Anyway this girl who'd moved groups to get away from that sort of thing saw it happening and got so disgusted with it she left and sought other means of rehabilitation.

>>17856570
Yeah, all of that sounds familiar. It's strange, and you have to watch yourself in those places whether you're a male or female. I'm no model, but I'm also not an unattractive guy and I'm still young and I have never in my life had more girls interested in me than during the time I spent in the program.

It's easy to see the basis for the rules/recommendations from the program regarding sex and relationships, those people often have severe codependency issues on top of everything else and relationships formed from groups/hospitals can be very toxic, dangerous, scary things.

And yeah, for whatever it's worth, as counter-intuitive as it may seem there is some very serious talent in those groups, meetings and hospitals.Of course you see the typical toothless hags, but some of the girls I've met there looked like they belonged in commercials and billboards, not treatment centers.

>>17856638
Yeah...when I got into recovery I kind of made a vow to never get sexually/romantically involved with anyone from the group OR anyone with addiction issues...reneged on it once and learned the lesson that I expected to, lol! But that was a very, very slow-burning thing that we both resisted for a long time, I'm actually still friends with her, she's doing really well and is working in her local drug and alcohol recovery team! Very proud of her. It wasn't the Canadian bird lol. Like you said that codependency can be toxic, especially in relapse situations. But you're right, you get a lot of hormones flying around, especially people in the early days of recovery, don't you?! An old, old friend of mine (we started using at the same time, he's dead now, though) told me a few stories from his times in various rehabs--he and another couple guys got thrown out of one for having a foursome with this Scouse chick...the way he told it she was down as fuck to bone my mate and another two dudes but she felt really guilty after the fact and told one of the workers. they gave my mate an ultimatum, he could stay IF the incident was disclosed to his parents or keep it quiet and leave without a fuss. He chose the latter due to embarrassment, I guess.

>>17856570
No, I don't come around 4chan much and definitely not /ck/, even though it's not a bad board. I do, however, enjoy the company of drunks, recovered or not, and I have a grudging respect and fondness for AA folks. I obviously didn't find the 12 steps helpful. But I did forge really good relationships with very interesting and caring individuals. I still talk to my old sponsor, in fact. He knows I continue to drink. Even so, I call him after all these years because he was such a bro. I'm not sure that "turning my will and life over to the care of God" is all that helpful of a thing to do. Talking to other drunks is, though.

>>17856405
Ok yeah i was misreading your earlier post.

I am not saying that all opiate users are terrible people but from personal experience they have been the most manipulative of the bunch. I've had
nothing but hardship dealing with opiate users
because they ALWAYS play everyone one to
cover their tracks (no pun intended). the worst of
them are the ones who stop going then relapse.
they will do anything in their power to keep their
pill or dope problem going. I could explain some
of the atrocious things they've done to my personal
life but it's not worth it.

I will 100% vouch for what you're saying.

The ones you can kinda trust are the honest opiate users.
if they say "yeah Im using still" they are 7/10 trustworthy.

Actually anyone who is shady like that in secret
isn't really trust worthy including people who
cheat on spouses or have secret substance issues.

I'm technically sober but I don't go to meetings.
I like the group but I'm filling the void through making things and learning to appreciate the
good things in the world (helping depressed friends, advice, work, etc) incase you were wondering.

>>17854465
Former AA-goer here.

The community aspect is good if you surround yourself with peeps who truly enjoy sobriety. The steps, however, need a little bit of work. They work. You just have to make your own minor, personal adjustments. Bout 3 years ago on /b/ an anon and I rewrote the steps and updated them.

Like anything else in the world, it can work. You just have to tweak it to fit you.

Can't really bash AA to be honest. I'm 2 years and like 11 days sober.

>>17856774
Exactly. Peer support is FUCKING INVALUABLE! Your sponsor sounds cool as fuck, mine didn't really want to know after I left the program. Along with 80% of the "friends" that I'd made there. That was probably one of the biggest factors in my disillusionment. I mean, I'm not using (opiates were my drug of choice) but I still drink three times a week. I have a schedule and have kept to it so far. I don't advocate for abstinence personally because I don't see a problem with the odd drink, I know what my personal "red flags" are and am very aware of behavioural changes and what they can mean for my recovery. I don't have a coupla drinks and want to use drugs...maybe I'm lucky that way. Of course 12-Steppers would just say I'm in denial!

>>17855687
>http://friendsofbillw.net/the_three_legacies


No, AA tells you that YOU ARE POWERLESS AND INCAPABLE of sobriety and that addiction is a "spiritual disease"(Ahem HORSESHIT NON SENSE TERM) that only your higher power can cure. It has a NEGATIVE success rate over no treatment at all and a disproportionate number of people who go more than a year commit suicide.

>>17855709
Only AA gets me, the outsiders are evil, i must insulate myself in meetings of other winners like me, that way I can pair up with someone more broken than I am and find out the true meaning of rock bottom.

>>17855796
This is true, in many of these groups your mileage may vary.

My mother is an active participant in these groups. And some days, yes, they allow a person to use peer support to overcome challenges one might not be able to face alone. But certain groups especially in my home town have created it into a 'cult' status. Many of these "open meetings" end up being less about helping recovering addicts and more about a small group of the leadership getting together and handing out coins to each other and friends rather than any actual worthwhile discussion.

I don't really understand how AA gets federal funding, or judges can order people to go.
It's clearly religious in nature.
I have nothing against that personally, but I just can't figure out how this one little religion slipped through the cracks of the wall of separation.

>>17856885
>Only AA gets me, the outsiders are evil, i must insulate myself in meetings of other winners like me

read the part about drunks.
you can drink and not be a drunk.

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>>17856885
You sound like one of those folks who goes to a motivational seminar and burns up their keyboard afterwards about how it did nothing for their personal success. As if approaching it with cynicism will somehow help you from being betrayed, because heaven knows that has happened a lot to you and letting it go is not an option for grievance collectors.

>posts with a name even thought he wrote nothing worth looking up later

Not surprising, you are a collector after all. With this missive you can now fully ignore all the implications of my post by resorting to only remembering this part. Another for the collection.

>>17856929
it's funded by the group via donations not the gov't even though they make people go.
I've had friends get court orders to go so they'dgo drunk... um... that is why you're supposed to go

>>17856882
actually... addiction is a spiritual problem.

You lack hope and can't think of a way out when the way out is stop repeating patterns that make you miserable.

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>>17856926
Hello again.
http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/13419870/#13420096

>>17856882
There is some value in the majority of the population regarding the disease model of addiction. The majority of lower-functioning plebs are better off believing addiction is a disease.

The disease model of addiction is not the only approach there is. One must do his or her own research and find something that works. The guidance of a drug and alcohol counselor can be especially invaluable.

>Source: been to rehab twice, second time for 90 days with the same counselor. Over 2 years sober now.

>>17857028
>
Here, here.

Oh, and fucking good for you, Anon. Well done mayne. Hope that doesn't sound patronising. Been through it all myself (I'm >>17855796
>>17856141 >>17856192 >>17856570 etc, etc)

http://4chandata.org/x/Alcoholics-Anonymous--a74727

>>17856955
there's no such thing as a "spiritual" problem, that's nonsense

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>>17857140
Wow, thanks for the find anon. I really wish that OP was still around, I'd love to find out where his story went and what became of his group.

His story is a good example of the sort of behavior I'm referring to with this thread. It isn't just inherently evil people seizing upon a throne and dominating others, it's the pre-existing structure which anyone can basically gut and re-purpose to suit their own needs. Sometimes that can take the form of a positive thing, sometimes very negative. And the two are not mutually exclusive. In the case of that thread, the guy's sponsor had given him the methods and they worked better than he imagined. After a while of that, the sponsor holds a degree of control and the power of suggestion over the person he's sponsoring. If one day he made a suggestion of something that seemed strange or wrong, why not trust him and try it? Everything else he has suggested seemed odd but worked wonders.

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has the documents I was looking for in my first post. I've tried digging for them everywhere and I can't find them, which admittedly seems a bit odd. Now that I think about it, I do remember that the thread I originally saw them in got deleted by mods rather than dying a natural pruning death.

Okay, so after a little more digging through different archives, I found this.

http://archive.4plebs.org/x/search/image/CmYgUsPMf8GG2Jx2cAt-hg/

The thumbnails for that image look kind of like what I'm looking for, but I can't tell if it's about AA or the Finders cult. I could be retarded, but it doesn't look like any of the archives have the full image, only the thumbnail. Anyone know how to view the full image?

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Just to be clear, no where in the AA literature does it say practioners of the program need to admit they are "weak" as this one anon keeps misleadingly repeating. The first step is "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives were unmanageable." It doesn't say anything about being weak or weakness. Conversely, quitting drinking and not having to rely on a crutch that is slowing destroying you, actually makes you stronger. I've been sober over 4 years using the steps of AA and I'm stronger mentally, spiritually and physically than I ever have been in my life.

>>17859218

So, in your mind, powerlessness and weakness are not the same thing. I've no interest whatsoever in discussing the difference between weakness and "spiritual strength." I understand that you're invested in the program and that it works for you and that's great. I also understand that, like most people in your position you probably feel very strongly about the program. Understand that I'm not attempting to insult you or your program, but there is no argument to be made against the fact that, whether or not the steps or the big book explicitly state "you are weak" (I honestly don't remember, it's been a while), their message clearly states that the preexisting condition for the user/addict is powerlessness and weakness and that only through the program and God can they achieve strength.

Bait: you can believe in any "higher power" you want.

Switch: AA's higher power
>restores people to sanity
>takes on peoples' wills and lives
>hears confessions
>makes character repairs
>hears prayers
>gives knowledge of it's will and power to carry out that will

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>>17859300

We could go through the post limits on several threads discussing that topic. I had an odd experience in a meeting one night where I was unexpectedly pressed to explain my position with regard to this higher power. When I explained briefly that I didn't have one and did not want one, they were certain that I simply did not understand the concept of the higher power - it can be anything I want. I had not divulged my lack of faith/religious belief specifically to avoid this conversation but they pressed on, so I told them that I couldn't bring myself to choose an inanimate object or anything else which was not divine or "greater than myself" in any way. Since they wouldn't let it go (remember, I'm in the deep southeastern United States and here, atheists are considered to be the amoral scum of the earth) I asked them what I should choose as my higher power, to give me an example of something greater than myself which wields control over my existence and takes an interest in my actions. They named a few things which did not meet that criteria ("a door knob" is always the most popular suggestion) and when I said so, I was met with the usual "I'll be praying for you" and "I don't think you're actually an atheist" responses.

It was easy to tell immediately that people were looking at me differently. More to the point, people were looking at me - ordinarily they'd only turn their attention toward me if I was speaking but for the rest of the meeting I kept seeing several of them staring at me while others were sharing. After the meeting, a few of them approached me and tried to get me to see "reason." A couple of them also became the first people to ever offer to be my sponsor, which was strange but kind of funny, because they thought that with their guidance I would come to grasp this concept of a higher power. I stopped going to meetings shortly after and haven't been back. On October 1st of this year I will have been clean for three years.

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>tfw your higher power is memes

>>17854465
Are you sure you're not just thinking of Narconon, which is literally run by the Church of Scientology?

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>>17859831
I'm certain. I'm glad you brought that up though, as it could probably serve as a decent example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. Also, those of you who still haven't read Going Clear, do that yesterday. Among the rest of a purely fascinating/horrifying true story, the information on Narconon is genuinely upsetting stuff.

>>17859358
>tips fedora
You had a higher power, you just didn't want to reveal your power level any further. We understand.

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>>17860451

I'm always fond of the summerfags who are so in a rush to fit in that they throw around things like the *tips fedora* stuff at the mention of atheism. Maybe it's me, but it's always seemed like /x/ gets a lot of those each year.

At any rate, you failed but you still tried and that's what counts. Keep at it.