I'm not religious or spiritual in any sense, but, Is consciousness

It isn't just possible it's guaranteed. This is the infinite universe. eventually you will be reborn in the exact same arrangement of the exact same chemicals making the exact same signals. What does it matter how much you become a worm if you are guaranteed to come back forever?

Things die, this is how life is made.
You can live like a crazy person, or you can live like a crazy experience. As a person, you will die, and cease to be. As an experience, you are immortal. You will feel the goopy rotting flesh rubbing against your segments, you will feel your segments sliced by the hard beak. You will feel the wind underneath your feathers as you soar.

Learn to love death, because it created love, and wisdom. Learn to love death or curse your very limited worldview as you slowly wither.

I'm not saying kill yourself, I'm saying, "kill you, self."
You are mostly just bacteria right now anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDBI9txA-W0

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>>17407174
I hope not, i've had enough.

Our consciousness is derived from our spirit, which is extra-dimensional in nature. Think of the human body like a complex computer, a computer must use energy in order to function properly. Humans must have this energy as well, else-wise our bodies are as useful as a computer without any electricity and this energy is the soul and spirit which makes up the operation of the human, our lives is merely to sustain this spark of energy until our deaths.

Our spirit is where the conscious self is derived from and our bodies, our minds are designed to take advantage of our spirits consciousness so it many manifest and operate in a physical sense, hence the neurons, and like computers if our hardware is damaged then we cannot access or operate things that our computer inherently has, but by fixing the computer, we can gain access to what we loss access to, I suspect this is the same with a person.

>>17407174
Dr. Sam Parnia detected some freaky stuff in clinically dead people(and no, it isn't from oxygen levels, since he took care of that). Nothing conclusive, since everything beyond that is subject to cultural images of the afterlife, but there is... something.

>>17407174
No one knows.

>>17407174
It's the other way around, the consciousness controls your brain.

>>17407174
But we already have evidence of a soul. Look at pet cloning... They clone a dog but it's not the same "dog". Sure it looks similar and might even behave in a similar way, but it is not the same dog, as described by the owners that had their pets cloned.

>>17407308
doesn't count.
Animals are gay.
Umad nerd?

>>17407308

How the fuck is that evidence of a soul? A new life with new experiences will obviously be different. If you would've been born ten years later you would be a totally different person because you wouldn't have went through what you went through.

The dead do not speak. We will never know.

>>17407201
I really hope the hypothesis of the universe infinitely expanding and compacting for eternity is true.

I just hope that every time it expands and we become conscious again, it's not exactly the same life we have right now. Because that would be the definition of hell to some.

>>17407321

You will know

>>17407174
No.
After all of your cells die, what you call "me" will cease to exist

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It seems reality is infinitely fractal and perfect, all is one stream of happening, good exists because bad, bad exists because good. Don't worry senpai and enjoy your forgotten dream incarnation in this weird realm. Tug on your dick and have a grand old time or whatever it is you do.

you just pretend no evidence. If that doesn't work you ignore any evidence.

>>17407336
I won't. I'm going to kill myself before I have a chance to die.

>>17407359
"god" and "bad" are man-made things.
There is only x persona personal good and x person personal bad
Only + and - exist.

>>17407336
yeah, I'm living forever so I will never know.

>>17407335
It's only hell if you let it be. Think on that which isn't.

>>17407352
+ If you have seen these clinical death stuff OP dont trust them.

Death person CANT be alive again.
These people still had some cells in their brains and even if you are having hearth attack there is some oxygen in your brain,thats why your cells wont cease to exist,if they would then that person cant be be alive again. Or his/her cells magically reincarnated ?

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>>17407174
smoke some dmt/weed, eat some shrooms/lsd. report back with findings.

>>17407201
>This is the infinite universe.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>17407378

>>17407364

>>17407379
I really hate hippies like you. How on earth would ingesting a chemical that alters your perception would be any proof for a life after death? Sure you may feel like it, but how is that in any way scientific proof?

Cowards and Fools will disregard this without EVER knowing...

>>17407392
You Richard Dawkins following mouth-breathing fucking atheists needs to calm the fuck down as science doesn't have it all figured out yet either. No one mentioned a word of proof, but rather if you stop looking to science for all the answers you might find what you are looking for.

>>17407417
Well I would consider myself agnostic, but as such I still have no proof of life after death. Sure it seems like an enticing concept, and hell it may even exist, but I haven't seen a single thing that would lead me to think that way. From what I see consciousness is the bane of humanity and the need to alleviate existential dread leads us to creating "spirituality"
And Dawkins is a faggot

>>17407174
>Is consciousness possible after death?

Yes.

>our conscience comes from the brain alone

Source?

>it makes sense because nobody proved the spirit

It there is no spirit, life is only a sum of physical things, go to any recently deceased group and stitch together the working organs, see if it works.

Life is given by the spirit, given by God.

Want proof?

You can build a pc, and truly, unless you power it with something, even tough it has the pieces, it wont work.

>>17407393

Those people only believe in what they see, or take faith in the findings of what is quantifiable. The fact of the matter is, what we speak of cannot be quantified with out current technology, perspective and understanding of the world, and even if we were to gain a fundamental understanding into the secrets of the universe beyond the physical, it would without the influence of the ancient knowledge bestowed upon us by holy men, holy books and the entities which call themselves 'gods'

The soul and spirit is very real, the body is merely a vassal for both, what vanishes when you die? What makes a living body a dead body and vise versa? Are 'you' truly just brown hair and blue eyes? A penis or a vagina? crooked nose or knobby knees?

No, there is more to a human then that, more to a dog then just fur. One thing that cannot be denied by those with a materialist view of reality is that we live in a complex universe with many mechanics which define it, whose to say its not a small cog in a much larger machine?

>>17407174
It isn't possible. Nobody has ever thought of a model for how this could be, just stories and pseudointellectual hand-waving about infinities, fractals, and dimensions. Just because one can imagine something doesn't make it possible.

The fixation with life after death is rather egotistical and small-minded. It's as if one cannot think of any greater meaning or purpose outside of their self.

>>17407442
Everything is a cog in a grander machine. Become the machine instead of a gear. You can live so much more than our limited human bodies can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzyXD8bNbvk&index=4&list=RDn5n7CSGPzqw

>>17407456

Since everything is physical, I'm sure you can tell me how efficient it is to go and pick healthy organs from a disaster and build healthy persons that will be alive and shit.

Belief in the afterlife also has a scammy element to it: by promising an afterlife, people will tolerate much more pain, exploitation, and suffering in this one. Just endure some years of hardship and enjoy eternal reward. Don't try to change thing to make this life better, just wait for the next one. For this reason religion is often associated with politics and authoritarian power structures.

>>17407456
What about evolution? That's a purpose much bigger than just one individual. It's in fact a guarantee of a future, and of a continuous life.

>>17407435

Of course, you don't need to provide energy to a body that died because of a faulty organ, you simply add the new organ, and since according to you, there's no spirit, it simply works because it has the energy from the previous consumption of nutrients.

>>17407457

Become the machine?

Such arrogance.

You believe you are the machine of reality instead of a small piece in its function? The last being which proclaimed such a statement got him and his followers thrown out of their homes and condemned to fire and now they spend their time attempting to condemn the souls of man to the same fate that he and his followers are ultimately destined for. No matter how powerful you can become, in the end we are all judged by the Most High whose power is beyond all.

>>17407174
Again, as some ITT have said, it's guaranteed.

Think about it like this. You know you are conscious, correct? One of the most fundamental truths for you is that your thoughts exist.

You cannot trust your senses to tell you what reality is, anyone who has taken a drug can tell you that.

If consciousness exists, a model of reality must include consciousness. Can consciousness come from non-conscious things? No, this is an impossibility. Two non-conscious things, when combined in any possible conformation, do not gain subjectivity.

Because we are conscious, we can reason we are composed of conscious subcomponents. As these subcomponents are the basis for reality, subjectivity does not end when your physical body dies, as reality itself must be conscious.

This isn't just something that is possible, it is something that logically must happen. Your consciousness does not end when your body dies.

Neuroscientists are starting to get information about this stuff, for example, split brain patients have two separate minds. By dividing the brain in two, you now have two minds, so the subparts of each brain are conscious.

>>17407379

I did and had some profound realizations about reality... and then google invented deepdream and I realized all the cool trippy visuals and thoughts I had were just recursive delusions caused by a confused brain trying to recognize patterns and memes in a drugged out state.

>>17407521
Our universe is governed by math so the results of an algorithm such as deep dream do not surprise me.

>>17407174
Afterlife is made by living.
Its just man-made story, same as "soul" or "spirit"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdOtYgQQjjY

>>17407491
Why do you feel a cosmic judgement? I've only ever been judged in my life, by fellow humans who haven't seen what I've seen.

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>>17407174
Que sera sera, man. In my opinion, we can only guess for now. We'll all find out in our own times. But for now, we gotta focus on what we can experience than waste the time wondering what will be when you do not.

>>17407201
I think you mean
>kill your "self"
as in ego death?

>>17407251
proof?
>oh yeah this is /x/

>>17407308
I think what we take as consciousness, our likes/dislikes etc are nature/nurture - certain things like survival, fight/flight and the urge to reproduce are hard-wired (with "faulty" exceptions), others like humour and the specific types of people we're attracted to I think are more nurture, results of our experience. Hence the two dogs will be different.

Do any /sci/ nerds know where we're at with this? I'm not talking AI "consciousness" here, but how close we are to getting inside the brain?
We're certainly making progress, look at the developments in artificial limbs that can now respond to neural magicry ;)

>>17407379
see
>>17407392
>I smoke pot, helps me chill, but I get no mysticism from it, maybe I've been doing it wrong :/

>>17407516
In the sense of Marx theory I agree, you die and go back to the ground, we're all and forever a part of the cycle of life.

"Because we are conscious, we CAN reason we are composed of conscious subcomponents"
>we could, but what are the reasons to and are they solid and sound?

Are you suggesting that if I lost a hand in an accident that would retain any of my consciousness?

Split brain patients have two consciousnesses? Well, brain, duh!

>>17407718
>"Because we are conscious, we CAN reason we are composed of conscious subcomponents"
>>we could, but what are the reasons to and are they solid and sound?
Read the line above that.

>Two non-conscious things, when combined in any possible conformation, do not gain subjectivity.
The reason for reasoning is to gain understanding as far as we logically can. If you disagree with the logic of the above statement, explain how else it could be.

>Are you suggesting that if I lost a hand in an accident that would retain any of my consciousness?
>my consciousness
It becomes difficult to say it is "your consciousness", but yes, the basic components of the hand are conscious, though certainly not at the complexity of a living organism.

>Split brain patients have two consciousnesses? Well, brain, duh!
Yes, but what happens when you divide those two partial brains in half again? Repeat the process as many times as possible. How much matter is needed to create a consciousness?

Given that on a physical level, there's no difference between the components of me and a nonliving thing except in arrangement, you must either state that consciousness is an epiphenomenon, i.e. it just happens and we will never have an explanation, or it's a fundamental component of reality. I claim the latter.

>>17407664

>proof is posted
>ignores proof and asks for it

>>17407254
Oddly, Parnia has said he believes we'll eventually discover NDEs are just "a trick of the mind".

>>17407308
Wait, is pet cloning actually a thing in real life? I haven't heard anything about it.

>>17407392
>that alters your perception
Thats the point, youre viewing life from another angle, which fosters new and innovative thoughts.
Perhaps its the path, perhaps not, its not something to debate, because you cant say either way.
What we can say though, is that it opens you up to a new realm, new ideas, which might take you a step close to figuring out what really is here.

>>17407456
>Just because one can imagine something doesn't make it possible.

And just because we can't currently explain something or think up a model for it doesn't mean it's impossible.

>The fixation with life after death is rather egotistical and small-minded.

I really can't stand this statement. Do you think someone is "egotistical and small-minded" for wanting to live until tomorrow? Because in essence, that's all life after death really is, just over a longer period of time.

>It's as if one cannot think of any greater meaning or purpose outside of their self.

But if the atheists are right, then there is no greater meaning or purpose outside oneself, because there's no greater meaning or purpose at all. You can't appeal to "greater meaning or purpose" to be dismissive of people who don't want to cease existing when the very nature of materialism precludes the existence of any such "meaning or purpose".

What "meaning or purpose" are you even talking about? Perhaps scientific discoveries, or technological advancement? Under materialism, those things are as objectively meaningless as anything else. The fact that you might consider them more high-minded or "worthy" causes means absolutely nothing.

>>17407174
>We are only aware of our own consciousness, we cannot experience the consciousness of anyone else.
Speak for yourself, thanks.

>in very specific patterns

Patterns of action potentials are unique to the individual, and form like riverbeds. If you study computing, you'll find that there're ways to encode any information in naturally occuring strings of numbers. Your brain was going to become conscious no matter what form it took. This line of logic suggests that a rock, with no modification, could spontaneously become conscious.

The nervous system, therefore, based on the fact that it mostly relates to control of the body, is the piano that consciousness plays.

>We are only aware of our own consciousness,

Maybe there's only one in the first place, in many bodies.

>But is there some way that when a new consciousness is created, we can somehow experience it?

They say that atoms and molecules can be in two places at once. They form a line in space that acts as if it were the same particle, so one calcium atom can flow through many neurons as an action potential, and it'll be as if every neuron was being pinged at once - the neurons could be said to be quantumly entangled. It stands to reason that if neurons inside the brain can become entangled, and any object can develop consciousness, than maybe consciousness is innate to every elementary particle and infects other particles via QE.

>>17408735
>They say atoms and molecules can be in two places at once.
Thats not really how quantum entanglment works, it could, but not really. It more applies to smaller particles.

>so one calcium atom can flow through many neurons as an action potential.
Interesting theory, difficulty saying is BS, but realistically, not likely.

I do see an extrapolation though.
That we were all once entangled, but now we all have very slight entanglments with one another.

>>17408776
>very slight entanglments
You're WELCOME!

>>17408842
Fucking a. I was happy when I reached the point where I was like, "everything can be explained, all those beliefs are pseudo science"
Now, its a different kind of happiness, seeing that science is just a slow method trying to explain whats all around us. I had a whole shower debate about chemicals, and their various traits, and how you could say every single one has a sort of energy, because it is that they have specific polarity, and various traits in different positions.

But yeah, its hard now, because it takes longer to disprove ideas, and many ideas that most would say are complete BS, actually hold up to scrutiny quite well.

>>17409230
You're welcome. <3

Don't get caught up in too many overlapping bluffs at once; that could kill you. And I mean it.

>>17409335
How do you mean, "overlapping buffs"?

>>17409368
It's a lot like when two neural nets merge.

>>17407469
It's not about waiting for the next life for eternal paradise. Without these hardships we wouldn't have character, without character we wouldn't have value. What good is a soul with no value?

>>17407516
Can you elaborate what you said so a basic man like me can understand? Are you saying there are "souls". Or are you saying consciousness is a product, and nothing more? What do you mean it exists after death?

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
I hope there's something after death, I'd like to see my grandpa again, one day.

>>17409752
If my beliefs are right, his life energy left his body and entered the developing body of the closest lifeform.

If my other belief is right he's gone for good, but at least he's finally having some rest and you will rest too.

If these two are wrobg then I have been living a life and will probably go to hell

>>17407174
reminds me of the quote that introduces the boom 'Gravity's Rainbow' from Wehrner von Braun.

'Nature does not know extinction; all it knows is transformation. Everything science has taught me, and continues to teach me, strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death.'

Not sure what to believe, I would just say in America the powers that be, whatever they might be, strive constantly to manipulate our conscience and make us spiritually rot and destroy us from the inside out. why? who knows...but I don't plan on letting it happen.

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>>17409971
forgot pic related

>>17407174
If you believe in Persinger he say that some of your memories are stored in the magnetic field of the earth. But that is not proven and also is not your conscisness only your experiences. So that means no afterlife I guess.

>>17409971
>conscience and make us spiritually rot and destroy us from the inside out. why?

that's easy, Greed,more for them less for everyone else. For a society to have ritch, it needs poor.

Bumping, because this is one of the better /x/ threads Ive found.

>>17407251
Consiousness is awareness. There is no such thing as the human spirit/soul.

>>17407368
That made a whole lotta sense.

>>17413494
Self-aware, capable of making decisions, learning, pretty much doing whatever comes to mind and making it reality. "Yeah its just awareness derrr"

>>17413494
>There is no such thing as the human spirit/soul.
>Tip fedora

There is literally no scientific basis to say there is no such thing as a human spirit/soul. We have no idea how consciousness works and your claim of absolute materialism has as much evidence as anybody else's absolute claim.

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Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

>>17407174
Suppose consciousness is the result of neurons firing in our brains, like you stated (I don't know what scientific literature says about this, but I agree with your view).

Then consciousness is really an abstraction consisting of complicated interactions - the neurons firing in your brain are simply a physical manifestation of this abstract view of consciousness. When you die, only the physical form is destroyed. Your actual consciousness, which is a mathematical abstraction, will continue to exist, just like it always had.

Think about a pattern on a quilt. If the quilt is burned, does the pattern still exist? Yes, only that particular physical manifestation of the pattern ceases to exist.

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>>17407174
The truth is when we die, we just fade out. It's like a man who lost both his eyeballs in a car accident. He sees not light or darkness. Nothing exists unless he's told it does or if he touches it, hears it, smells it, senses it electrically or temperature-wise.

The truth is we obviously have no control over who we are in this world or who or what we will be in the next life. This is chosen for us. Is it random? Or is something else controlling the outcome? Nobody really knows.

The truth is everybody dies. The truth is free will exists. Quantum mechanics proves this.

The truth is we have as much control over our lives that we allow. The truth is some people have way more ambition than others. Why is that? We are products of our own environment. The way we're raised, the world we live in, all choices we make in life determine our own outcomes in society.

The truth is we are beings with little control of ourselves. The next step for human evolution is immortality, to conquer death. Brain transplants, mind memory data storage backup copy files saved until your body is cloned and your brain is implanted with the same memories or just a total brain transplant. Your old brain soaked in a highly advanced stem cell chamber and can be rejuvenated for as long as the earth floats with human life.

We'll be able to choose what memories we want, which we don't want for our next life. On a quantum level, we already experiment with servers, but years from now quantum level data storage for brains will make us superhumans with computerbrains filled with endless data and memory. Thoughts = mouse clicks.

Next we'll become super-robots, able to resist Venus-like temps on earth. We'll conquer space. We'll no longer be prisons of nature.

On a quantum level, we can experiment with biological life and invent earths within and create quantum video game simulations like how it was to live as bio-humans. Who says we aren't future superhumanrobots doing this right now?

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>>17414019

I am a Christian so I believe in Heaven.

However if we assumed there is no afterlife and death is that and its just 'darkness'. Since matter only has finite number of combinations, shouldn't we exist again? If we can become conscious from nothing couldn't it happen again?

>>17414698

>The truth is when we die, we just fade out. It's like a man who lost both his eyeballs in a car accident. He sees not light or darkness. Nothing exists unless he's told it does or if he touches it, hears it, smells it, senses it electrically or temperature-wise.

This is a purely materialist point of view, which in my opinion is fundamentally flawed due to its focus on what is observable, quantifiable and assuming that it is the absolute truth because of empiricalism. Everything you mentioned above in aspects which define physical, material reality, whose to say that other dimensions have fundamentally different physics to it. The fact of the matter is that we all exist in an ever-changing constantly moving system. People have already come and left this world by the time you arrive, we have a defined history with lessons derived from them, we have culture, buildings, knowledge and all things left to us by our forefathers and mothers, what are the mechanics for such a system work? how does one 'enter' this world? How is it decided that a dog is a dog and not a mantis? How is it decided that a rabbit is a rabbit and not a skunk? How is it decided that a man is a man and not a women? Furthermore, what truly is death? Clearly there is something missing when you look onto the dead body of a love one, or anyone dead really that something that was once there is now gone, but nothing is truly destroyed and 'we' are no exception to this rule.

"The truth is everybody dies. The truth is free will exists. Quantum mechanics proves this."

We are indeed given free-will by God, but if we look at this from the perspective of the non-quantum world then we see a uniformity in reality...

>>17415206

...Predictability. How can small particles doing utterly random things constantly create the fundamentally exact same particles which we know about in the standard model?

The truth is we have as much control over our lives that we allow. The truth is some people have way more ambition than others. Why is that? We are products of our own environment. The way we're raised, the world we live in, all choices we make in life determine our own outcomes in society. "

We do indeed, people have the ability to change their circumstances greatly with their own abilities, if they have the willingness to do so, but those who succeed in life, I mean those who reach the top, have very bizarre beliefs for someone who prescribes to a materialist, constantly in Rolling Stones stars of all kinds describe being taken over and possessed by other entities who take control of them when they perform, likewise you can also look at the most powerful men and women in the political class and see some very bizarre beliefs with Bohemian Grove being just one example and attribute their success partly to those they worship as well. Strange no?...

>>17415209

"...The next step for human evolution is immortality, to conquer death. Brain transplants, mind memory data storage backup copy files saved until your body is cloned and your brain is implanted with the same memories or just a total brain transplant. Your old brain soaked in a highly advanced stem cell chamber and can be rejuvenated for as long as the earth floats with human life...which we don't want for our next life. On a quantum level, we already experiment with servers, but years from now quantum level data storage for brains will make us superhumans with computerbrains filled with endless data and memory...NEXT we'll become super-robots, able to resist Venus-like temps on earth. We'll conquer space. We'll no longer be prisons of nature."

And this is where the spiritual downfall of man begins, with the fusion of mankind with his technology. How much of man can you replace until they are irredeemable and not human? What is the fine-line between man and machine? This is indeed the future, but it is not a glorious as one may believe, people will be connected by a hive-mind, a computer controlled by the elite... or worse, something not exactly human and hates humanity with a passion. We won't be prisoners of nature no longer, but prisoners of our own technology and those who wield the keys to control us, the free-will you spoke of would no longer apply to mankind and we'd be reduced to single-minded slave with enhanced bodies where we can never die, always suffering. The singularity won't be a Utopian as those may believe, technology brought us pleasure, but it also brought us the atomic bomb.

Death is a sweet release, depending on those who will do the dying. Those who suffer will embrace it like an old friend while others who fear it shun the very notion, as if deep down they realize what it is they return to once they die. Death is necessary and those who will attempt to avoid it will face the ultimately penalty.

>>17414698

This thought process is so dangerous and delusional... IF we create a machine to hold our consciousnesses, that machine will have it´s own after the upload of the human one.

The quest for immortality in this material 3rd density reality is the ultimate and fatal mistake for our kind. It´s ego driven , when we should be here to understand that this is a prison for our spirit. A rite of passage. We are not supposed to be "here" forever. Our goal is to transcend the material universe.

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>>17414698

>It's like a man who lost both his eyeballs in a car accident. He sees not light or darkness

But such people do report seeing in dreams, if their brain is intact. The brain produces the image, and takes non-visual cues from the eyes. However, all cells are sensitive to light, and in the eye you have special cells to absorb photons.

>The truth is we obviously have no control over who we are in this world or who or what we will be in the next life

If I kill all rats, there'll be none to incarnate into.

>The truth is free will exists. Quantum mechanics proves this

It proves the exact opposite. An object below a certain size exists in every state it'll ever be in, all at the same time. Every single moment in the object's future can be seen, at the same time it's entire past can be seen. A non-local variable is used to explain this superdeteministic harmony. Hugh Everett has been ignored because he answered this question, and academia doesn't know what it'll do when it gets final answers - the LHC people are moaning over the end of physics.

>The next step for human evolution is immortality, to conquer death

I wrote an essay on fueling this future;

>http://freetexthost.com/k6pbnqohhm
>Universe creation

>Next we'll become super-robots, able to resist Venus-like temps on earth

I also wrote an essay about that;

>http://freetexthost.com/yub6deoafi
>Alchemical diamond bodies

>Who says we aren't future superhumanrobots doing this right now?

We are. Every moment of our lifes exists eternally, and we simply browse through it. When you have visions of gods, you're really seeing your divine, future self. We're all one mind, glancing from camera to camera.

We can not be certain of anything
Reality could all be a dream of a god
The universe could be a fish tank like object in an even greater realm
But does it really matter?
In a way yes
But also no
Life only has the meaning you give it
Once we shut our eyes or good I have a feeling something amazing will happen to our soul

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>>17415209

>How can small particles doing utterly random things constantly create the fundamentally exact same particles which we know about in the standard model?

Because the particles aren't doing anything random - they do the exact same things over and over again, to the point of repeating the same orbits endlessly.

>We do indeed, people have the ability to change their circumstances greatly with their own abilities, if they have the willingness to do so, but those who succeed in life, I mean those who reach the top, have very bizarre beliefs

Imagine standing at the foot of a mountain. Now, imagine that you climb up the side, and look down from the peak - you can't see the mountain anymore, or rather you can't enjoy what you tried to obtain by climbing the mountain.

Men try to get women, and women try to get men - the opposite sex is the mountain, and courtship is climbing it. When you get to the peak, the sight that attracted you is gone. They both die, longing for what they had before decay set in. The man reincarnates as a woman, and the woman reincarnates as a man. Homosexuals climb their own mountain, and reincarnate as the same sex - homosexuality is a way of assuring a constant flavor of incarnation.

This is magical will - not desire, but the intentional control of your attention to induce an attachment to something, because that induces movement to a perspective where the attachment can be indulged.

>>17415622

There are two 'worlds' of particles, the quantum/subatomic and the atomic. The atomic particles are what you describe, my question was how can random subatomic actions translate out to the the non-random, predictable world of the atomic?

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>>17415212

>And this is where the spiritual downfall of man begins, with the fusion of mankind with his technology

What's technology? Hermit crabs steal shells, and spiders weave webs. In nature and the lab, UV light induces mutations, and organisms pass genes via horizontal gene transfer.

Nothing we do is unnatural - we harness nature's tools, and they do the same things in our hands as they do in her's.

>This is indeed the future, but it is not a glorious as one may believe, people will be connected by a hive-mind, a computer controlled by the elite

Most organisms on Earth live completely outside of human control, and are only vaguely aware that we exist.

>or worse, something not exactly human and hates humanity with a passion

Some animals have probably developed a hatred of us - big cats have chosen to kill hundreds of us.

>the free-will you spoke of would no longer apply to mankind and we'd be reduced to single-minded slave with enhanced bodies where we can never die, always suffering

We never had free will, and happiness is chemical. We'll be beautiful, durable, fast, intelligent and strong - and everyone will be made to be in good spirits, and to love everyone.

You're describing Heaven.

>>17407174
Can you experience non experience?

>>17407293
This

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>>17407359

>>17407417
+1000 comment
Bravo

>>17407491>sets up internally illogical conditions for followers
>demands worship, returns only promises
>lies and threatens eternal punishment for transient crimes
>encourages bigotry, hatred and violence at every turn
>claims the complete opposite

Your judgemental god

>>17407696
>special snowflake

>>17415697
Because, we're viewing the sub atomic world through atomic filters, we cannot see the causes of much of their actions.
Whereas when we viewing the atomic world, its predictable, because we can see the action.

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>>17415227

>IF we create a machine to hold our consciousnesses, that machine will have it´s own after the upload of the human one

What is consciousness? We've observed genetic memory in mice that isn't associated with any epigenetic mechanism, and shown that memory is stored inside the nucleus of cells. OrchOr theory says exactly this.

Consciousness is innate to matter - the universe is panpsychic - every elementary particle is aware. Quantum entanglement is how multiple particles become controlled by the same mind - you control your body because you've enslaved countless other particles.

>The quest for immortality in this material 3rd density reality is the ultimate and fatal mistake for our kind

Technology is how I've attained all my knowledge, and I think that manipulation of physical reality is required to produce or enter Heavenly territory.

>It´s ego driven , when we should be here to understand that this is a prison for our spirit. A rite of passage. We are not supposed to be "here" forever. Our goal is to transcend the material universe

You exist in a spatially infinite universe filled with points from which matter and energy is erupting with torrential force. You and only you make it a prison or a paradise. You can never leave, because there's nowhere else to go. Only by ceasing to chase after an escape can you ever find paradise in the last place you thought to look - the exact place you started in.

Everywhere you go is Earth, your center never moves, and the directions always stay to your front, left, right and back - they never move. A beautiful green field, with a giant tree and a mansion, is right there for you to climb to any world and live in perfect luxury.

You belong to a soul group, and this group loves you and is waiting for your return - this is what you're feeling. You can stay here on Earth forever, and they'll still be waiting for you, with undying smiles.

>>17407521
just because its in your brain doesnt mean it's not real