>Very detailed and intricate story that spans 3 games that

>>4249937
Durandal is one giant Mary Sue, half of the levels are pointless storywise, stories in M1 and M2 (I just said "fuck it" in regards to Infinity) are really simple if you cut all the hipsterisms and red herrings, 2/3s or the levels play as Perfect fucking Hatred on MD/TC due to faggot-tier traps and spawns. Balance is all weird due to there being infinite health supply (basically, in these conditions, maps should be balanced for ammo, but they so aren't that isn't even funny), basically, you are either semi-immortal demigod, backtracking to terminal after each fight, or you suck some major dick and hope you'll find your next healing terminal BEFORE the next SUDDENLY THOUSANDS OF SPHT FROM THIN AIR fit of faggotry on parts of leveldesigners (actually, the only map in M1-2, that uses terminal mechanic right is G4 Sunbathing, where, basically, you have a "base" in the center of the level - and you foray into the unexplored territory all around it). Repetitive as fuck, compared to Pathways into Darkness, vid shtick does nothing for the actual gameplay variety, insane difficulty spikes all the time. Laggy controls (intertial movement + laughably slow strafes + combination of headbob with 30fps cap + you stumble on the smallest height difference due to lowgrav + every weapon feels like rocketlauncher from Doom in terms of response), finite bullet speeds on your guns worsen the impression from gun responsiveness even further.
Levels are ridiculously empty and unnatural looking. Entire faggot-trap ridden levels need to be completed without any saves whatsoever. M1 level from the middle of the game, with the column puzzle, the S'pht Controller M1 level and the last M1 level are legendary in the level of faggotry on part of level-designers. Oh, and the waist-high water in M2. Whoever came up with that is just a dick.

>>4249975
What's nice. Some of the music in M1 was nice. G4 Sunbathing was really memorable, and I regard is as one of the genuine high points (on par with, say, Derelict from DN3D ep4) in 2.5D leveldesign. M2's proto-Unreal-esque atmosphere on L'howon (or whatever it was called) level was alright, the new gun sounds after the craptastic M1's sounds, were cool. There were a couple of pretty nice twists in M2, and I more or less liked the ending, as well as the last bossfight concept. Some of the layouts were, well, they were, for the most part, ok. But, overall, those games are just so much pain in the butt on every convenient occasion, it's really not fucking worth it, in my opinion.

I, generally, enjoyed Pathways way, way, WAAAAAYY more. And the same goes for Combat Evolved as well, by the way. Both those games are just incomparably more sound actual mechanics-wise.

>>4249975
Oh yeah, and, also, the terminal mechanic naturally leads to blatant overuse of Drops Of No Return, which also can be quite maddening in itself.

>>4249937
>Very detailed and intricate story
you mean half-assed references to make autists sperg about?

>5D space
buzzword alert

>>4249937
it was easily the best fps of its time, but only the mac master race got to play it. i'm sure most of the autists in this thread haven't actually played it. also it has been overshadowed by the grotesque mediocrity of the halo series

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>>4249975
Not to be "that guy" but it's difficult to take you seriously when you type like you're physically shaken and angry. But despite that, you do make some fair points, especially about the health recharge mechanics. That being said, I disagree with you on the level design. There really aren't many monster closets or moments where tons of enemies teleport in around you. There's a few annoying ambushes in Marathon 1 which does bite, but even when ambushed you have all the tools to deal with it. All the enemies in this game, bar troopers, are not hitscan (technically troopers aren't, but they might as well be). If you're good enough, you can sidestep a lot in a fire fight and if you're conservative of your grenades, you'll always be able to take on the world solo. I know it's heresy on /vr/ but I think Marathon's levels are waaay better than Doom (2) from a combat perspective. Opening a door and having Chaingunners and ten lost souls fly at me while also backtracking from 10 pinkies is not my idea of fun. But hey, to each his own.

>>4249996
>you mean half-assed references to make autists sperg about?
What does this even mean?
>buzzword alert
How the fuck is 5D space a buzzword?

>>4249975
I also should mention I agree with you that some "puzzles" were rather frustrating, such as moving the 7 pillars on "Colony Ship For Sale". But I thought there were far more entertaining and tasteful puzzles and quirks about levels than annoying ones IMO. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

>>4250003
Halo is actually a legit game with concise and well though out mechanics to it - instead of being a hipster version of Doom, being vastly inferior to Doom (or maybe rather on par with, say, Strife) in almost everything mechanics-wise.

But hey, Dark Forces 1 is an even shittier game, and that's not to mention ACTUALLY craptastic games, like Wrath of the Earth, Operation Body Count or Fortress of Dr. Radiaki, so it's not like Marathons are the VERY bottom of the barrel.

Also, M2 was ported to Win95.

>>4250015
>when you type like you're physically shaken and angry
THAT should give you some idea about what I actually felt while TCing M1 (by the way, I actually Basilisk-ed the 68k version of the game, reduced framerate included) and M2 (played the official Win95 port). It's literally Perfect Hatred half of the time. I just don't need that crap in my life. All stuff artistic DOES have some merit, but sitting on a cactus for 20 hours straight in order to see it, just isn't fucking worth it for me. Marathon actually remind me of this much less widely known game, called Inquisitor, a Czech wannabe-le-hurrcoar isometric RPG, in that regard - and THAT was NOT a compliment.

>>4250025
Disagree with everything you said. The atmosphere of Halo is cool, but the gameplay itself is very boring and is just "follow the hallway". And don't say some dumb shit like Marathon is the same because that's complete bullshit. The most detailed level in Halo CE (Which is probably The Silent Cartographer) does not even rival the complexity of even some of the most simple Marathon maps. And while you may say the health mechanics of Marathon was handled poorly (which I'll actually agree with), Halo CE is babby mode thanks to recharging shields allowing you to easily coast any level on even the hardest difficulty. Not to mention that you always have ammo thanks to weapons being drops from enemies.
> instead of being a hipster version of Doom
This insult means nothing. If your FPS is too similar to Doom it gets called a Doom clone. If your FPS is too different from Doom, it gets called Doom for hipsters.

>>4250049
>The atmosphere of Halo is cool, but the gameplay itself is very boring and is just "follow the hallway".
Well, that's probably because Halo is NOT a game about labyrinth, it's a game about arenas, where every arena is a puzzle of sorts, with the best solution for that puzzle, ideally, being different from the solution you have already managed to find for the previous arenas. As was Pathways, by the way, now that we are at it.

I'd argue, that Marathon is a DELIBERATE "non-Doom"/"Doom: Hipster Edition", and that the similarities are NOT incidental. In the Pathways -> Marathon -> Halo -> Destiny, Marathon specifically is an odd duck, not the other ones.

>>4250063
You sound fucking insufferable.

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>>4249937
>What went wrong?
>what is mac-only original release

>>4250063
>Well, that's probably because Halo is NOT a game about labyrinth
It doesn't matter. If your level design only gets as complex as "walk forward" your level design is boring. Of course, this is somewhat remedied by the combat. Boring level design is forgivable if the combat is good enough. But Halo's combat is just...so fucking easy. Everything is so slow and poses no threat to you. And you don't need to think very hard about what you're doing because you'll always recharge your shields which is more than enough to blast through the game on legendary and you'll always have ammo. Even during the later levels where you need your shotgun and think you'll need to conserve your ammo, you're wrong. There'never a reason to conserve your ammo or worry about your HP or worry about your save point. There's a checkpoint every 30 feet so who gives a shit if you die? I like Halo's MP a lot, but the campaign's combat is severely lacking to say the least (although I do like the story).

>and that the similarities are NOT incidental
Doom came out in 1993. Marathon came out 1994. The game was originally a sequel to PiD but was changed to be more like Doom. Everyone knows this, but that doesn't make it "Doom for hipsters". I guess if you think about it, Halo and Destiny are really just Doom for hipsters.

>>4250063
And the reason, in my opinion, could be the following.

Matathon, as far as I know, was remade twice almost from scratch. The first version was Marathon Zero, and, mechanically, it was basically Pathways 2. When it was revealed at some mac expo, from what little I gathered, it flopped hard. Because Doom was already out, by that point, and, well, nobody was all that excited about Pathways anymore. So, they just, well, conceded. Quite similarly to how Romero conceded to "just slap some Doom weapons" on Quake almost two years later. They deliberately scrapped everything, and went to make something that will "show" Doom. Not by their volition, purely to fit the standard. Knowing full well, that without Doom they would've made a very different game, even if it wouldn't end up Pathways 2 it started as.

Hence all the passive-aggressiveness, and SpecOpsTheLine-like jabs on Doom-like games and the players who play them.

Because the player Would Have Expected to play "something like Doom", when he/she started Marathon. And because Bungie knew that perfectly well, and quite probably, thought, that they had no other option, than to make a Doom-like game, despite their original intentions. They were not expressing themselves, they were competing, and trying to make a game, that would sell.

That is purely my speculation, of course. But I kind of find it quite plausible, especially when I look back upon my impressions from playing those games.

Also, to use your own words, I found Marathons "fucking insufferable".

>>4250086
>It doesn't matter.
It does matter. You had wrong expectations, and you didn't readjust them.
>But Halo's combat is just...so fucking easy.
What difficulty? Truth and Reconciliation in PC version is tough with being occasionally hellish even on Heroic, not to mention Legendary.
>>4250103
And the worst part is, that it wasn't really necessary for Marathon to follow Doom's mold nearly as closely as it actually did. It was just a set of stupid unnecessary self-imposed restrictions, needed for fuck-knows-what.

>>4250103
>They were not expressing themselves, they were competing, and trying to make a game, that would sell.
Pathways 2.0 aka Marathon Zero was a sellout if anything. PiD was their first and only hit and they didn't know if anything else they made would be as successful, so they basically made Marathon Zero as a sequel hoping people still wanted more PiD. Of course, people didn't really care at this point so they scrapped literally everything and redid the game from square one. While you could say Bungie redesigned Marathon to sell more (which is a fact), that's not to say they didn't truly love the game. Theres a lot of writing and thought put into this world that was definitely put in by people who genuinely cared, whether you liked the story or not. They didn't make the network play be able to go past 8 players because they were too fucking busy goofing around in LAN deathmatch as they were all just college kids still. You may dislike the game but it's definitely not some soulless product meant to purely rake in cash

just gonna chip in to say that i enjoy your discussion.

>>4250118
>You had wrong expectations, and you didn't readjust them.
Incorrect. I went into Halo with no expectations. I didn't play FPS single player and didn't really know what I was getting into. Of course I liked it when I originally played it, but if you look back on Halo with any kind of objectivity it was boring and easy and was even lazy enough to reuse previous levels which ended up making a whole third of the game. I'm not saying you shouldn't like Halo, you should like whatever you want to. But to say that Halo was a great game while bashing Marathon? Eat my ass. If Halo didn't have
1. A memorable story
2. A huge fucking legacy thanks to the multiplayer
Nobody would give a shit about Halo 1's campaign

>>4250118
In other words, my point is, if somebody outright DEMANDED from Bungie, for the Marathon to be Just Like Doom, in the end, it wasn't me. And, starting to play this game, having played and really liked Pathways, I definitely didn't have any expectations, and definitely no demands for it to be Just Like Doom. Therefore, I, as a player, refuse to take any blame for Bungie misinterpreting and failing to emulate Doom (in terms of weapons, traps, movement, gameplay flow, etc) formula, and for that formula being way too restrictive for the Extent of Their Oh So Creative Ideas. In other words, I don't feel like I OWE Bungie to play Marathon, and I definitely don't feel obligated to like it, because I didn't ask them to make it in that particular way. And, seeing, that I really don't really like that game, I feel quite content with just telling Bungie in general, Jason Jones, Greg Kirkpatrick and every fanboy telling me "You owe it to itself to play Marathon!!!11" to just go and fuck oneself with a spiked dildo, and to just go and spend my time in other, more pleasant or more useful for me personally, ways, than to play those games, or to argue about them with their fanboys on anonymous imageboards.

>>4250134
>You owe it to itself to play Marathon!!!11
Nobody has ever said this. The most you'll ever get is a "if you like Bungie games try out Marathon, it's free and inspired Halo". The fact you make everything sound so drastic is just bizzare to me. Nobody is forcing you to play or like Marathon. You type likeyou're a fucking rape victim (insert obvious "Marathon raped my enjoyment to have fun" joke here)

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> play and beat the marathon games
> ask about it online for opinions
> everyone shits on it
I don't give a fuck, I like the series.

>>4249937
>Yet, it hardly ever gets talked about.
What are you talking about? Marathon gets talked about all the time.

>>4250079
>>what is mac-only original release
something that marathon is not

>>4250175
The second game got a Windows port. That's it. Yes, you can play it now on Windows, but that's many years later on a source port

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>>4250161

Mac exclusive

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>>4250175