People who grew up with Wizardry 6, did you actually finish this

Yeah, it's not the brainlet kinda game

Might have looked one or two puzzle solutions up and I got the advice to start with a bard.
I did draw my own maps and got through the game fairly well.
Compared to Wizardry 1-3 it's relatively forgiving. Losing 1 Vitality is nothing compared to losing the whole character.

This game is honestly a fucking mess, I don't recommend it. Very buggy and unpolished.

>>4227882
You can play the SFC or SS ports.

>download automapping software (personally can't draw maps on Wiz 6. Older games were easier because 20x20 maps).
>download the editor to make rolls easier (honestly the worst part of the game) and correct some bugs (not like there's a lot of them anyway)
>save a lot (takes literally 3 seconds)

Honestly after all this is not different from the most polished cRPGs. Stop being a whiny bitch.

>>4227882
Are there any better dungeon crawlers to play? Preferably involving good amounts of party building.

Maybe the Etrian Odyssey series spoiled me, but I can't bring myself to enjoy most retro dungeon crawlers although I'd like to.

>>4227931
That lolishit series has got nothing on Wizardry.

>>4227931
Not a fan of really oldschool stuff like Wizardry, but I love Dungeon Master.

>>4227905
>save a lot (takes literally 3 seconds)
That way you just end getting stuck. Better stick to saving in save spots with plenty of backtracking.

File: 0001.png (54KB, 640x377px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 640x377px

>>4227931

Might and Magic 3 + World of Xeen

File: wizwar_l3.jpg (42KB, 550x413px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 550x413px

Didn't finish VI. I did clear VII, which IMO a much better and more polished game. Also played Wizards and Warriors, which feels very Wizardry though not actually one.

>>4227931
If you want party building you could try the Might and Magic series. Start with either 4+5 or 6, two different flavors.

As for newer ones, only one I can recommend is probably Divinity: OS (not a dungeon crawler per se, I know). You might want to try out stuff like the Grimrocks or Starcrawlers or MMXL, but those didn't hook me for long.

>>4227970
>Start with either 4+5 or 6

3 is just as good as 4+5

>>4227970
>wizards and warriors
>stat growth tied to character class
>class promotion are gated behind game progression
that's kinda awful tbqh

>>4227970
7 may have better interface and graphics than 6 but it's fucked up in its own ways. The biggest problems were the switch to open world and the obtuse size.

>>4227845
>what, I should reroll until I get decent bonuses?
>I should read the manual?!
>I should DRAW MAPS?
This genre is not for you, anon.

>>4228012
The manual is kind of crap. It tells you how you can replace party members but it's impossible in the actual game.

>>4228019
I haven't played Wizardry 6 in particular. But those three things are genre staples that you'd find in non-buggy games with non-crap manuals as well.

>>4228012
>I should DRAW MAPS?

There's a pretty cool automap mod for Wizardry 6:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/wizardry-6-automap-mod

>>4227845
Congratulations, this, right here, is pretty much what Every David W. Bradley's Game Ever (barring, possibly, Cybermage) is all about.
In other words, in order to even marginally enjoy this (or Every Other David W. Bradley's Game Ever (barring, possibly, Cybermage)), you just HAVE to have A LOT of fucking goodwill to just let things sliiiiiiiiiiide. Because boy oh boy, there is a lot of absolutely, unbelievably, retarded crap in his games.

>>4228026
Automaps are for faggots.

>>4228028
What about Wizardry 5?

How old are you, OP?

You have to understand gaming in 1990 on a PC, Apple or Amiga system. Firstly, just getting shit installed and running properly was often a task in itself.

Secondly, there were nowhere *near* the number of games being made and they were, relative to wages, a lot more expensive then than they are now. You might get two or three games in a year and those were expected to last you a long time.

People just interacted with non-arcade titles in a fundamentally different way back than. Drawing your own map on graph paper now sounds ridiculous, but back then, it felt immersive - that map in your hand, that *you* were drawing, was a physical link between you and the world in the game.

>>4228081
You were supposed to pirate them. Wizardry 6 has a cracked copy protection for a reason.
Installation just meant copying the floppies on the hard disk.

>>4227938
>lolishit
Just don't make your team little girls, anon. That one is on you.

>>4228081
Understanding those things doesn't make the game any less of a chore, though. There are plenty of 90s computer RPGs that are perfectly playable today.
The thing is, most of the Wizardry series was consciously designed as oldschool even back then and was considered hopelessly outdated compared to mainstream stuff at the time. It's good for veterans, but definitely not something to recommend for a dungeon-crawl beginner.

>>4228012
Explain to me how rerolling is good game design.

>>4228012
Rerolling depends. People who did later ports of the first three wizardry games realized that there's no sense in making it harder than it needs to be, so they just have it so that a certain button does it right on the screen (specifically the SNES port), but a lot of the PC versions you have to exit character creation and go all the way back in, and this shit had loading times too. It's bad quality of life, I guess.

>>4227931
Check out the traditional roguelike genre. It's not a party based game, but it's a hell of a lot of fun. Infra arcana is my personal favorite. Try the ground gives way for a starter game, or sproggiwood if you need graphics. It's a huge genre, Google around or check roguebasin for reccomendations.

>>4228125
It's not, but it's going to be there, so bitching about it is futile. Might as well complain about passwords instead of battery backup in NES games.

>>4228124
>The thing is, most of the Wizardry series was consciously designed
Wizardry 1-5 were. Particularly Wizardry 4 had a lot of attention to detail.
6 and 7 didn't get nowhere near as much and Stones of Arnhem had to be aborted due to how bad things turned out.

>>4228125
It works better in games where all stats are randomized. In Wizardry it's kind of silly since the bonus points are the only thing affected so you have no compromises to make between them.

>>4228163
>but it's going to be there, so bitching about it is futile
Wouldn't that make all bitching on /vr/ completely pointless since we're all discussing retro games?

Rerolling itself is something I could deal with if it weren't for the fact that it took forever to do in Wiz6. Just download the game and tell me how long it took you to get 18 bonus points on each party member (which pretty much everyone recommends as lowest).

>>4228180
Just use savestates to speed things up.

>>4228180
>on each party member
5 bonus points are enough for casters.

>>4228193
The only point in casters is that they get higher spell regeneration. Since that's fixed at the beginning you can just reclass them to the superior mix classes immediately.

>>4228180
You can just download the editor that makes higher rolls easier to get. Some hardcore people might think it's cheating, but I see no fun on rolling stats for fucking ever (especially on Wiz 6 where the chance of getting >18 points is actually less than 1%, and you have to do it 6 times)

Also there's the automapping mod if you don't want to draw maps.

With this the game is incredible simple to play, and really, really good.

>>4228228
This is just me personally and not me trying to make a point, but when I have to download mods to fix a game or bypass boring things I just decide to not play the game. There are a lot of good games I haven't played that I don't need to use mods for to enjoy.

Since I enjoyed the core of Wiz6 I ended up getting Wiz8 as well. Played it for about 15 hours but the combat was way too slow and the open world wasn't really for me.

>>4228252
I never understand that really. Even some of the games that are considered absolute masterpieces like VMTB needs some sort of unnoficial patches to work correctly.

I mean, it's your decision of course, but losing like 15 minutes to enjoy around 50 hours of a great game it's not really bad at all. Even because I guess you would like Wiz 6 since the combat is not slow and it's not open world.

>>4228252
>This is just me personally and not me trying to make a point, but when I have to download mods to fix a game or bypass boring things I just decide to not play the game.
RPGs that normally receive high praise and work well enough without some kind of modifications and the like: Deus Ex, BG2 (greatly benefits from mods tho).
RPGs that normally receive high praise and require mods to shine but are very much enjoyable without them: Fallouts (first less so, but still), KotORs, PS:T, TES3.
RPGs that are in general considered good but aren't seen by majority as very engaging without considerable third-party changes: VtMB, Arx Fatalis (as Arx Libertalis), NWN1, ToEE.
The lists aren't meant to be exhaustive, but the first has all I can think of.

>>4228352
Why do you only list games made in 98 and later?

>>4228360
It was the time when ambitions of developers were still high and technology started to provide more and more possibilities. Those tend to be most symptomatic of the genre's birth defect, in my opinion.

The seemingly impossible complexity of WizVI is the result of simple escalation. The designers always tried to one-up their previous game in the mechanics and complexity department. WizVI has almost no appeal for a new player that dosen't shit graph paper maps on command.

>>4227845
>Lolek i Bolek
My niggest of niggas

File: dungeon_lords_gold_edition_1.jpg (118KB, 700x525px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 700x525px

>>4228028
>DW Bradley

>>4228372
>The designers always tried to one-up their previous game in the mechanics and complexity department. WizVI
Explain Wizardry 2 and 3.

>>4228371
Wouldn't that also apply to the shift from 8 bit machines like the Apple II to IBM compatibles with 386 and VGA? The increase in processing power and graphical prowess after that was more gradual.

>>4228429
Muh 3D. Its beckoning probably felt like a carrot dangled in front of someone who went several days without food. The milestone, so to speak, was first and foremost psychological. "It's almost like real life now!"

>>4228460
RPGs were slow to adapt to 3D. Obviously Ultima Underworld was a forerunner but even ten years later you still had 2D games like ToEE or the Infinity Engine.
Similar to RTS, top down and party based just didn't work well with 3D environments.

>>4228414
>implying alignment specific floors weren't a needles complication

Considering there was 5 Wizardries released before, once 6 was released there was a lot of experienced players already.

>>4229067
They were minimum effort to make something not exactly like Proving Grounds.
Like the dungeon goes up instead of down.

>>4228393
Yup. That's Bradley alright.

>>4227931
Wiz 8 honestly