> best visuals, sporting that crisp later Genesis look >

>>4154374
muh knuckles

>>4154374
Lacks simplicity, lacks iconic moments, tries too hard, mediocre redesign of Sonic's sprite

>>4154382

This. George Lucas tier cluttered backgrounds too

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I like it, but one thing I never liked that much about Sonic 3 is that the art direction/enviroment design went for a more "realistic" look, rather than the art-deco/playful designs from Sonic 1, 2 and CD. (like the checkered terrain in Green Hill Zone or Emerald Hill).
I also don't really like Sonic's sprite as much as his older ones.
Music is good, and it has many high note moments (especially Hydrocity and Ice Cap), but as a whole, I don't think it was as iconic as Masato Nakamura's Sonic 1 and 2 OSTs.
Gameplay wise it's an improvement due to the insta-shield (although some might argue casualization) and more powerups (again, some might call casualization, but the same can be said about spindash). But overall I approve of the gameplay updates on Sonic 3.
Level design is... well, it's not bad, certainly, but I think levels are too long. I like how Act 1 and 2 are always different from each other though, and how the music changes between them, but sometimes they drag on too long, and many levels have questionable level design. Marble Garden, Carnival Night, and from S&K, Sandopolis Act 2, are all among my least favorite Sonic levels.
The addition of mini-bosses was cool.

Overall, I still think Sonic 1 is the best one.

>>4154374
2 definitely has the best special stages.

>>4154374
>unable to progress past marble garden act 2 as tails
>the carnival night barrel
it's a 9/10

The best 2d sonic game is blue sphere followed by sonic spinball.

>>4154531
Don't demote it for a meme.

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>>4154531
>unable to progress past marble garden act 2 as tails
people really think this??

>>4154531
you can still hit the boss with tails errm tails

>>4154732
Stop saying meme, the blue spheres were great because every Sega Title at the time produced one.
LOCK
ON
TECHNOLOGY

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>>4154519
> the art direction/enviroment design went for a more "realistic" look

Nah, it's still super stylized, but in a different way,. The final result looks more cohesive and calculated to me, rather than in the first games in the early years of the system in which they just went nuts with the lessened palette and tileset limitations

>>4154824
I was referring to the barrel.

>>4155369
The instruction booklet explained how the barrel worked. The only people who can't do it are poorfags who rented from blockbuster and gen-z that played on emulator.

>>4155394
I mean, I just pressed up and down on the controller myself. Didn't need to check the manual for it.

>>4155394
>The instruction booklet explained how the barrel worked

It... did not though?

>>4154374
Well it did have better music than Sonic 2. The visuals were impressive and the bonus stages were better than the one on Sonic 2. With that said, Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the superior Sonic game.

>>4154374
Too bad the "and knux" part makes it zones easier and removes the cooler music

>>4154519
>but I think levels are too long
I agree with this completely. To play the game in its entirety which is Sonic 3 with Sonic and Knuckles makes the game very long and not appealing to play in a single sitting unlike the previous two games.

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>>4155362
>The final result looks more cohesive and calculated to me
I think it's the opposite, it looks less calculated, and more all over the place, in order to have that more "realistic", less unnatural look the older games had.
Look at the soil patterns here, it just looks like messed up tilesets. It doesn't necessarily look bad, but it's different from what the prior games were going for in terms of art direction.

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>>4155554
That was a poor choice of words; "deliberate" would be more appropriate, but I didn't meant it about the way the tiles are drawn and put together anyway, but the general visual approach: they weant for that sharp, weirdly glitchy look in some areas, which blends on screen into a very unique, lush and organic feel, like some sort of lo-res expressionistic brushwork even

I mean, this is in the mid-to-late stage in the system's lifespan; they knew exactly what they were doing, and they chose to go for something that didn't feel like just a grid of tiles. They were trying something new, but informed by technical savvy and a conscious vision, which is what I meant by "calculated"

Marble Garden worst zone, right? I probably wouldn't mind it if it were later.

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>>4155615
Yeah I'm not saying it looks bad, of course it doesn't, but I prefer the more "art deco" design of the older games.

>>4155621
Just chuck MGZ and probably Carnival Night out, add the S&K stages and you kind of have a good lenght for the game there

>>4155635
Carnival night's fun and late enough that I don't mind it.

>>4155621
All I remember is MGZ being very long and pretty slow, which was odd. It's been a while though.

Chemical plant zone is a very poorly designed level and the casino level from three is even worse. They are shitty cluster fucks where you just dont even care where you're going after a while

>>4155630
God I love the aesthetic of CD

>>4155440

Just play Sonic 3 Complete like a normal person.

>>4155673
I do. I was talking about unmodified sonic 3 and knux though

>>4155672
Shame it's applied on crap level design tho

>>4155692
get good @ tansaku

>>4155394
>The instruction booklet explained how the barrel worked.
What country are you from, out of curiosity? Keep in mind that not everyone got the same manual. Pretty sure that information was not in mine, I actually read manuals cover to cover back in the day.

>>4155394
anon full of shit as usual, nothing in the manual about the barrel.
https://www.digitpress.com/library/manuals/genesis/sonic%20the%20hedgehog%203.pdf

>>4155403
yeah me too

feels good not to be a troglodyte

>>4154374
> best visuals, sporting that crisp later Genesis look
Sonic CD
> best level design, with every zone containing a thoughtful balance of fast and slow segments, as well as "events" that build on the level themes
Sonic 1 or 2 have better level design.
3 was often far to long and boring
> actually fun bonus stages
Sonic 2 wins here
>Coop
Yeah ok

Sonic 3&K is a great game tho far to many faggots give this game far more praise than it deserves.

I prefer sonic 1/2/CD soundtracks more too.

I'm glad mania scrapped the sonic 3 designs.

>>4154374
it's surprisingly glitchy all around in terms of floor collision and the lot
shit, was just running through Angel Island earlier today and got crushed out of nowhere after spindashing up a slope (and there's nothing in the entire zone that deliberately crushes you) -- was probably just Sonic getting zipped into something and then bam, crush detection happens -- and god damn, Sonic is awful regarding crush detection, there's nothing like spindashing into something that's opening up and getting crushed, there really should have been a check against one of the surfaces moving down or something)
kind of wish I was using an emulator that supported rewind, I'd have loved to see what actually caused it, it was fucking nonsense
and it inherited various other problems from Sonic 2, but made worse because it's even looser about Sonic's max speed than ever before, there's a damn good reason that "robotnik's traps" line was put into the manual -- shit that in S2 almost never happened outside of Chemical Plant was now much more common in S3, like sudden stops at extremely high speed when going along slopes and going through walls and shit

it's not routine and regular, but it's certainly something that manages to mar an otherwise pretty solid game
that's the worst thing I can say though

>>4154531
man, the Marble Garden act 2 boss as Tails alone is the second dumbest thing in the original trilogy
the dumbest thing in the entire trilogy is the Sonic 2 Death Egg boss as Knuckles

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>>4156041
I've checked the PAL Mega Drive multilanguage manual and the Genesis one, and there's nothing about that

>>4154382
>lacks iconic moments
pretty sure the Doomsday zone and reveal of Hyper Sonic were pretty iconic

To be honest, the game goes on a bit too long for my taste, but I'd play it over any of the other Classics.

>>4154374
>objective