Why are so many highly-held retro JRPG's so formulaic? Is

>>4141823
Evo quest for eden.

Genre conventions, op. You go into a jrpg expecting certain constants.

See also Sturgeon's Law if you're looking for something that breaks the mold.

JRPGs follow certain genre conventions just like all other game genres. Since JRPGs are story-heavy, those conventions include tropes and plot elements.

That said, you can try some of the following games:

Baroque (very dark, with a vague story)
Sweet Home (more of a horror movie than a fantasy quest)
MOON: Remix RPG Adventure (a satire and examination of JRPG conventions)
Contact (see above, but for video games in general)

>>4141823
JRPGs were still fresh in 1996, at least to Westerners. Most of them played their first one in 1997 with FF7. There was no pressure to break the mold.

>>4141823
Because if you strafe too far off from the RPG formula then suddenly you're in a whole different genre of game.

Growlanser breaks every mold

>>4141823
Vagrant Story, Jade Cocoon, Shadow Tower, Suikoden II, Xenogears, Panzer dragoon Zwei, idk man seems like they were doing some experiments with plot and design there

if you actually played the games

>>4141841
basically this

wild arms is a mediocre game but you probably wouldn't have known it at the time

>>4141843

Genres are defined by general outlines, not tropes.

>>4141893
>vagrant story, xenogears
>experimental

>>4141897
we did, basically the sentiments were "something to play while waiting for the next final fantasy"

>Another JRPGs sucks thread
Don't you people get tired of everything?

>Inb4 fanboy
No.

>>4141823
which video game genre isn't formulaic?

Are you the same baity bastard that put up the Sailor Moon thing last night?
STOP THE HATE
DOWN WITH BAIT
RETRO GAMES MATTER
etc....

>>4142125
don't be so dogmatic man he's just raising questions about the quality of some Jrpgs

>>4141970
My exact sentiment. OP is presumably around 20 years old and grew up with halo and gta. He is of a different generation and doesn't understand why anyone would apreciate turn based systems.

>>4141962
>>4142125
You can't blame people for thinking JRPGs are shit when most of the games that people have nostalgia for actually are shit (see: OP's image).

You can either direct these people to the good games like >>4141893 or >>4141837 did or sit here pretending everyone is a troll.

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>>4142128
Well if it is said bait bastidge, then shklee posted a bait post about an old Sailor Moon game having a girl mode and boy mode, where the g mode was more rpg-y and b mode was more action-y. I called shklim a zombie and to return back to the shadows amd then the whole thing got 404'd.

>>4141823
The RPG formula is less the issue and has more to do with time spent on the game. I loved JRPGs back in the day just because I could spend weeks on playing them. Now there are plenty of games in other genres that take time to complete and the forumaic nature of JRPGs is a draw back because I'd rather games get to the point than drag me through another dungeon to pad the length of the game.

>>4142236
>see: OP's image
Die.

>>4141823
As much as I used to love JRPG, I agree with you OP.
Here are some games I enjoyed that deviate from the formula:

Valkyrie Profile is very unique, both in story and gameplay.
SaGa series have peculiar progression and some freedom.
Shin Megami Tensei, with the modern setting and bleak atmosphere is worth a try, too.

>>4141823
It's just you.
But look, I can play this game too!
>Why are so many highly-held retro SHMUP's so formulaic? Is it just me or are most of the retro-SHMUP's follow a clear-cut plot / gameplay formula. The only difference being the subtle intricacies in the scoring system and some of the bullets.
>Are there any SHMUP's that break this mold?

>Why are so many highly-held retro WRPG's so formulaic? Is it just me or are most of the retro-WRPG's follow a clear-cut plot / gameplay formula. The only difference being the subtle intricacies in the emotional ploys and some of the combat.
>Are there any WRPG's that break this mold?

>Why are so many highly-held retro Platformer's so formulaic? Is it just me or are most of the retro-Platformer's follow a clear-cut plot / gameplay formula. The only difference being the subtle intricacies in the powerups and some of the jumping physics.
>Are there any Platformer's that break this mold?
And so on, maybe you should take a step back and realize people play a certain genres for a reason and that maybe, just maybe, you should expand your horizons a bit before making terribly stupid assumptions just because you've played a handful of popular games.
The vast majority of all popular games in every genre is formulaic, people play certain genres because they liked what they played before and want more of it(which is also why franchises in general are a thing), but in every genre there's a good amount of games that break the mold for better or worse, and you'd know unless you kept playing the same handful of games over and over for decades.

>>4141823
Not really, you just need to play something different from the typical JRPG's known in the west.

Since it was a big genre in Japan there's a shitton of stuff with all kinds of mechanics and atmospheres.
There's little in common between your average Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy and Metal Max, SaGa, King's Field, SMT or Dark Half.
An even those are relatively well known. I remember some anon talking great things about Lunatic Dawn or still untranslated games like Traverse.

>>4142236

whoa, I know it ain't a masterpiece but it's far from a piece of shit.

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what did yall think of this gem?
>I started it a few weeks ago, took a break because of work and school and I'm going to try and finish it this week

>>4144716
I remember it being pretty dull overall. I remember the intro to the game was done by ghibli, which was great, and the creature fusion system was insanely deep but not really fun to really play.

I have to try it again, if anything I remember it being more interesting then many other jrpgs of the time.

The thing with JRPGs is that if something was done right, it would be adopted or reformulated by the following games, and after the huge saturation we had near the end of the century there was nothing new to do, or even worse people were just lazy to innovate

After the SNES-PS era it's very rare to see something new, and when it actually is new people ignore or outright reject it, like Contact or Unlimited Saga

People are also very nostalgic for mediocre games like Lunar, Grandia, Shining Force, early Breath of Fires. Only play those if you're looking for the most dull, formulaic thing you can

>>4142817
This honestly, not retro but the ps2 era was the worst about this, just when they should've started to tighten up the experience they padded it out even more. There are dozens of hours spent on running the character around simply to extend the length of the game and instead of putting a great side quest in that time space you instead need to backtrack to fucking nowhere for a plot point that doesn't even move the main thread along.

>>4141925
can you name any game that plays like vagrant story?
(other than parasite eve)

>>4145045
Game length was basically all that mattered to people back then. If you weren't getting five billion hours out of your game then it was clearly a waste of money.

>>4141897
FUCK YOU NIGGER
I love wild arms 1

>>4145060
I know it was consumer driven and I'm guilty of supporting it at the time (I'm looking at you .hack) but hindsight is 20/20

>>4145007
>People are also very nostalgic for mediocre games like Lunar, Grandia, Shining Force, early Breath of Fires
Glad someone finally said it. All those games are pretty mediocreand really only liked for nostalgia. At the least in Breath of Fire's case III, IV, and V were all quite good so at least it overcame it's mediocrity.

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>>4141897
You wanna fucking go?

>>4145045
This is literally Dark Cloud 2

Killed the game for me. Tried to replay it several times, but just couldn't get past that not retro opinion

But yeah in the PS era games started to 'artificially' lengthen games. Add abysmal localizations and random lame voice acting, then of course most of the jrpg library will be boring as shit

>>4146171
To be fair, a lot of the best RPGs of the PSX/Saturn can be finished in less than 20 hours but offer sidequests and replays with secrets or unlocks to lengthen them.

This actually applies to games like Armored Core or Resident Evil also which give you branching routes or skill challenges outside of just completing the game itself in 10 hours or whatever.

There's a sweet spot for the perfect length of a game's first playthrough, and I think it's about 8 hours, and if it takes longer than that your game has too much time wasting in it when you could be a more active participant.

>>4141823
It's not just you
It takes a while for artists to get experimental in new forms. Especially when their art is largely driven by the mass consumer market.

there's a lot more experimental shit out now

>>4146218
This is true

Now that I'm sort of an adult and have to be more cautious with my time I also learned to distrust games with a million hours of gameplay (Xenogears, Legend of Heroes series) because it's likely that most of it is bloat and not enjoyable at all. I'd rather play FFV and DQIII 5 times in a row than drag my balls through Grandia

>>4142817
I agree, time is the issue for me.

Why is every genre story created so highly formulaic?

It's almost like The Hero's Journey meme is real.

>>4141925
I really liked xenogears though it was really just too long. I put 80 hrs in and gave it up. Im not big on finishing jrpgs because of this. Most of them have a lull and I lose interest.

>>4147002
On the other hand anon, I personally really liked just wasting time in Blue Dragon letting it be slow as shit, and I'll probably enjoy the heck out of it when I get to finish playing it.

>>4142236
I feel the same about crpgs. Absolutely atrocious, off-putting abominations.

>>4142867
Absolutely destroyed

>>4141823
Mizurna Falls
Metal Max
Uncharted Waters Series
Super Hydlide

>>4145052
SD Snatcher

>>4145007
>>4145097
>Shining Force
>mediocre
Just neck yourself already, op.

>>4141893
>Suikoden II
Fucking hell mate. That is the most generic anime trope filled garbage game you could have possibly named.

>>4149687
It is