We always have threads about SA1, but let's discuss it's

>>4121345
Only thing I liked about it more than 1 was the more stable frame rate, would hit 60fps more often.

I think the soundtrack is really good, albeit corny.

I do not like Knux/Rouge stages, and Tails/Robotnik stages are frighteningly boring considering they're mecha rampages.

I would put more of a focus on the Sonic/Shadow Stages, but improve the level design and some of the mechanics to make it less "on rails"

Is the PC version the definitive version or are there lots of pros and cons to consider like with SA1?

its one of the worst games Ive ever played

>>4121394
It's in widescreen without a glitchy hack. But I'm pretty sure it's exactly the same as the gamecube version.

>>4121394
Don't pay a single cent for it, Battle mode is paid DLC.

>>4121345
there's a lot to like (there are no really bad Sonic stages, bosses are okay, Shadow's stages are decent, music is cool, graphics are pretty nice, rail grinding isn't just a cop-out for actual level design like it was in every later game)
and there's a lot to dislike (story is still retarded, Knuckles/Rouge bits are awful, Tails' stages are noticeably worse than Eggman's -- and so are Rouge's next to Knuckles' or Shadow's next to Sonic's, you have to play all the shitty parts to get to the good stuff, unlike SA1, where you can just be all Sonic all the time)
The camera still kind of sucks. The controls are also a little iffy but I prefer them to most later incarnations of 3D Sonic. Every later Sonic game fucks up the Homing Attack even more somehow, which is retarded. It's not perfect here (a lock on indicator would be ace, but that's the only change I'd comfortably make), but it's a fuckton better than it got.

I think it'd be like an 8/10 or 9/10 with all Sonic/Shadow style stages -- they've got a few flaws, but they're great. As it stands, it's a 6/10 or 7/10 game.
I wish the the mechs were faster and had physics like a toned down version of Cosmic Wall's when not in space. And fuck, Cosmic Wall is the best Eggman stage by far.
If they didn't screw up the emerald radar, the Rouge/Knux stages wouldn't be so bad, god damn. The SA2 radar would make SA1's tiny Knux stages more interesting, but the larger SA2 hunting stages need a better radar.

>>4121510
why the fuck did they do this
I got it in a big-ass bundle, but it's still super dumb.

SA2 was the game that made me realize I was done with Sonic.
I bought the game day 1 and had o force myself to finish it.
I can't think of a single thing I enjoy about it. Everything about it from the controls to the camera to the story sucks and that's not even getting into the bullshit non-Sonic parts.

The Chao garden was neat for a little while but christ on a stick this game is bad to the core.

I Sonicfag in denial I was, I bought it AGAIN for the Gamecube and had to force myself to play it again, this time noticing that the port was even WORSE that the original in every way

The first SA, as broken and wonky as it is, is miles above the second one.

>>4121903
>this time noticing that the port was even WORSE that the original in every way
That's just not true.

>>4121906
except it is. The physics/collisions are even sketchier, the graphics are worse and it drops inputs far more regularly (usually a light speed dash that refuses to happen thus killing you)

Unless the different music in the Choa hub is what sells you on it...

>>4121908
Any source about the physics and inputs thing? I played through both and didn't notice any substantial change in the controls.
As for graphics, I think it looks overall better on Battle, not that the DC original looks much worse though, in fact the change is minimal, but I remember Battle looking like 10% more polished.

I have fond memories of this game, played it almost every day the summer after it came out with a friend. The multiplayer was great when you have 2 people who know what they are doing.

But I prefer the first one overall. The somersault that Sonic and shadow have kills the action. Just brings their gameplay to a literal halt. And as others have said the radar in the treasure hunting stages was ass. If it had the same one from the first game it would have been much more enjoyable.

However I still play my favorite stages now and then. I put over 300 hours into the GameCube version and got all 180 emblems. So yeah I like it.

>>4121910
>Any source about the physics and inputs thing?
You mean beyond owning both and playing them side by side? I did that back in the day with an RF switcher. Back and forth comparing the two. The GC version was worse about literally everything.

> I remember Battle looking like 10% more polished.
The GC version has much more compression on textures and completely lacks self-shadows. I promise you it looks worse than the DC version. It's got less pop-in though but on as whole, the GC one is just uglier.

And what the fuck is "10%" even? What are you basing that on? How do you even calculate that?

I get that I was almost certainly older than you when I played these games, so I don't have the warm memories of being a wee lad tinting the whole experience.

Picked it up during a steam sale and hated it. Adventure 1 is busted, the music is great and it looks good enough that you can look beyond it's brokeness. You just enjoy the music and dicking around.

SA2's music just isn't as good, it's levels are more on rails. It's just not as fun as the original

>>4121345
It's a let down. It's a step back in every direction. It's more linear, the music is less varied, there are less speed stages, there are less gameplay options, you can't even just choose to play only the sonic stages like SA1 you're forced to play non sonic stages. At least in SA1 finishing all 6 stories to unlock one super sonic boss fight was an optional thing, it didn't really add much other than a cutscene and a janky super fight, but SA2 makes all that shit mandatory. The story isn't terrible but they kill shadow at the end and if that was it then fine. But they go back and revive shadow later and have no idea what to do with him which retroactively weakens his story here.

All in all, a disappointment. SA1 was a decent game, it wasn't AMAZING, but it was decent, and a nice first crack at "proper" 3D. SA2 ushered in a decade plus of really weak shit that just kept getting worse until the inevitable 06.

The game is a pain in the ass if you play it normally and try to beat it normally. I hate most of the boss fights, and the mech levels are god-awful. I like the Sonic/Shadow and Knuckles/Rouge levels a lot, but I can't stand the other style. Dark story is a giant slog because Eggman has the most levels while Shadow has the least out of anyone in the game. It's just a mess compared to the Hero story.

Game is great if you don't care about actually beating it and just mess with emblem missions and the Chao Garden, though.

>>4121345
Sonic's stages are consistently good. The music is cool too, but the way the audio is mixed in the game is bizarre and awful. Chao garden is a fun distraction. The emerald hunting stages are unforgivably bad. Also, the lock-on sound for the mech stages
>bweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I honestly hate most of it. I keep on playing it though.
That classic Sega Blue Skies aesthetic and soundtrack is just too good to ignore.

>>4121345
I'm pretty sure this is far better than SA2 but I haven't played it in awhile. I probably should.

I sunk 180 hours into it, most of which was in the Chao Garden. I still feel like I didn't discover everything about it. I like how the Chao Garden gives you incentive to improve your ability to get through the levels as efficiently as possible instead of just beating them once. Sometimes I would just stand still in the Hero Garden, soaking in the music and watching the Chao do their own thing. I'm surprised Sega hasn't done anything with the Chao Garden since, but on the other hand I don't have any idea how to improve it either.

The game itself was fucking boring, SA1 > SA2 anytime.

>>4121345
I played it way back and absolutely loved it, it was my first 3D sonic game. Sunk so many hours into the game trying to find all of the secrets and I'm still a little amazed by how much there is to do.

Got its HD Remake on xbox a few years ago thinking it'd be a fun bit to go back to and I was blown away by how bad it is. Camera is awful, anything but sonic / shadows levels are bad, voice acting is incredibly out of sync. 2/3 of the game is poor so I really didn't get further than a few levels in.

>>4122269
>>4124570

It is incredibly dumb that there's been three different versions and none of them even attempt to fix the audio mixing and timing.

>You're not even goo-
>I'LL MAKE YOU EAT THOSE WORDS!

>>4121461
You haven't played too many games.

>>4121516
>unlike SA1, where you can just be all Sonic all the time
I never understood this argument for liking SA1 more than SA2. Yeah, you can do all of Sonic's stages in SA1 without taking a break to play as other characters, but Sonic's portion of SA1 is like, what, a couple hours long? How many people actually just played Sonic's story in SA1 and then went "ok I'm done" and never played the game again? You're clearly intended to play all of the characters in order to "beat" the game.

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SA1>SA2
Sonic Adventure 1 not holding up is the biggest forced meme in retro vidya. I bet you most people who say that still praise Adventure 2 despite all it's issues.

>>4124958
In SA1 you're not forced to jump between play styles. That's what that means.

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>>4121345
>SONIC Adventure 2
>Sonic has less levels than his friends

>>4125034

Combined, sure, but he has more levels than any one character.

Then they stiffed shadow by only giving him 4 levels so I guess it's still balanced in speed vs treasure hunting/mecha levels

>>4121394

From what I understand, the Gamecube version is actually best version, even improving on the Dreamcast veresion, which can't be said for SA1.

>>4121345
>How did you like it?

I don't think I would have gotten back into Sonic if it weren't for this game.

Loved everything about it as a kid. These days, not so much. I still think the Sonic/Shadow stages are top notch.

I wouldn't mind the Knuckles/Rouge stages if you could track all three emeralds/shards/keys at once instead of one at a time like the first SA game. But fuck that space level with rouge and it's fucked gravity mechanics. There's no saving that dumpster fire.

I don't mind the mecha levels, but I still hate that Tails is in a mecha and not running and flying. I get that they wanted to start pushing his tech guy character a little more but I never liked that aspect of Tails... works fine for Robotnik though. I just wish the mech moved and turned a little faster like E-102 gamma did.

This is a 6th gen game you hypocrites.

>>4124952

wrong

>>4125115
Lurk more

>>4124958
mate, SA2 is like six hours long if you're taking your time and mildly familiar with it, these games are short as fuck in general
like, that's how long it took for me and a few buddies to go from blank save to finalhazard while passing the controller around, according to the load games screen (did this about a year ago)

>You're clearly intended to play all of the characters in order to "beat" the game.
Sure, but why bother? The Perfect Chaos fight is a bit lame, and you need to play as Big and Amy to get to it.

Big would be fun if you were doing anything but looking for Froggy. The fishing mechanics are okayish.
Amy would be fun if her movement didn't suck and her stages weren't more linear than Sonic's with the mild addition of some "puzzles" here and there.
Gamma is mediocre if not too much of a chore. Tempted to say he's actually more fun than playing as Tails/Eggman in SA2, really.
Knuckles is actually kind of fun in SA1. He's way easier than in SA2 though, since the stages are more compact combined with the better radar and then the Tikal orbs just pointing you directly (which was kind of lame, SA2's hint system is much better).
Tails is just Sonic with awful tacked on object placement and flying gates, but at least it's basically just like playing as Sonic.

the point is that in SA1, you can pick which bits you like and want to play
in SA2, they're just dropped into a bag and mixed around and you end up slogging through so much before you get to touch Sonic himself again

>>4121920
SA2B on GC has loads more geometry on screen by a fair bit. It's got definite issues as an early GC game vs a late DC one (and wasn't it a little rushed, too?), but SA2 on DC doesn't look better than SA2B overall
most of the changed textures are totally worse though

>>4124862
part of me wants to believe that this was intentional, even if I know it wasn't
it's totally in character for Sonic to try to cut Shadow off as soon as he says "you're not even good enough", too

>>4125893
>the point is that in SA1, you can pick which bits you like and want to play, in SA2, they're just dropped into a bag and mixed around and you end up slogging through so much before you get to touch Sonic himself again

My assumption was that no one would just play Sonic and Tail's stories in SA1 and then put the game away because that would make the game too short. If that's what you did with SA1 and you felt satisfied with it then good for you, I can understand why you liked SA1 better than SA2 then.

Everyone dumps on Knuckles and Rouge's levels and I agree, they're pretty bad. But I got A ranks on every single mission on every single stage, and you have to replay theirs so many times to get a handle on where everything is. By the time I memorized everything in their levels, I found myself more or less enjoying myself with them.

>>4121510
How did Sega get away with this

>>4121920
>The GC version has much more compression on textures and completely lacks self-shadows. I promise you it looks worse than the DC version. It's got less pop-in though but on as whole, the GC one is just uglier.

SA2 PC Fixed Edition when?

>>4125046
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uNsTXIzgGI

>>4121516
>why the fuck did they do this

1. Port SADX PC to Xbox 360
2. Strip deluxe content
3. Sell Metal Sonic and Mission Mode as DLC
4. Port that port of a port to PS3 and Steam

>>4121394
>>4121501
SA2 HD is based on SA2B. It has Battle's improved character models, bugfixes, features and other changes, it just puts a lot of the Battle-exclusive content behind DLC. Only thing it restores from the Dreamcast release is re-adding all the Big The Cat cameos.

If I'm not mistaken, the original Dreamcast release also has a different lighting model and shaders that isn't retained in either Battle or SA2PC. In fact, SA2PC somehow manages to have worse lighting than even Battle.

If you're interested in Sonic hacking, go to the Sonic Retro forums. Maybe someone will make a patch to fix this once they are done with fixing SADX PC.

This is a good video with all the differences between versions explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdbkX5RboFk

>>4125893

The first thing I noticed when I seen the GC version for the first time is all the characters getting tanned as fuck, Knuckles and Rouge most notably. Whether it's a texture change or another lighting engine botch I don't know, but I would love a 'fixed' version like we got for SA1 PC.

>>4126184
Is there a version that makes the base game not suck? No.

>>4124315
i liked the chao garden also, it was almost kind of like princess maker. trying to raise the specific ones to be angels/devils/sonics/shadows etc was pretty fun

>>4126191
>another lighting engine botch

Bingo, SA2B and PC version seems to be missing all of the stage lighting and effects.

>>4126184
>PSN

Heroes, Shadow, Sonic 06, Unleashed and Generations all run worse than their Nintendo/Xbox counterparts.

>>4124862
Not only that, but if I recall correctly SA1 had the exact same mixing issues on dreamcast and the gamecube version

>>4122269
>Sonic's stages are consistently good.

Except for the fucked up collissions that make you die when you want to hit a rail or something.
Or fall off a rail mid-grinding.

ROLLIN' AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND

>>4127125

You must be thinking of Heroes, SA2's grinding is smooth as fuck.

>>4127128
this
if you fall off a rail mid-grind, you didn't make the slightest attempt to balance

only dumb thing about rails was rail switching -- trying to jump off a rail and immediately go to the side ended up just throwing you off if you held left/right
there aren't even any places in SA2 where rail switching is actually required IIRC, making it more baffling

>>4121345
I hated it.

Completely inferior to SA1.

>>4126141
Sonicfags are autistic

>>4125893
>but SA2 on DC doesn't look better than SA2B overall
The better lighting and textures on DC completely makes up for the higher poly count on GC. Plus the other stupid changes in "Battle" that even affect the (already shitty) storytelling.

Image: DC on left GC on right
No excuse for this shit. Entire graphic elements and lighting effects are missing in Battle

Outside of the crappy multiplayer getting an overhaul in Battle there is no reason to ever even mess with the GC version, yet that is the one most future Sonic autists grew up with...

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>>4129037
>oops
Image because I'm retarded

>>4129037
I dunno, I think I'd prefer the extra stuff in Battle rather than some specific lighting effects, but then again, that'd imply I prefer playing SA2 at all which isn't true.

>>4129037
>Entire graphic elements and lighting effects are missing in Battle
Outside of cutscenes, the omissions are few and far between. Also while it is easy to cherrypick, let's not forget that SA2B has some graphical enhancements other than just more polygons. And SA2B is better at holding onto 60FPS.

As for worse textures, I doubt it. Probably just minor differences results from differences between the two consoles' compression formats.

>>4129150

>let's not forget that SA2B has some graphical enhancements other than just more polygons

Care to name some? The only real achievements I can see in SA2B come from the Gamecube being more powerful as a console. Both SADX and SA2B seem to come from the same school of thought - 'improve' some character models and call it a day.

>>4121345
SA had fairly bad gameplay, but it broke it up with actual adventure elements, and a bunch of characters with different gameplay. Not to mention some miningame type shit. So it managed to be quite good, despite it's not-so-great gameplay.

SA2 has 3 gameplay styles, and no hub world adventure segments. So it kind of places the, still bad, gameplay under a microscope. Really making obvious the flaws that could be overlooked in the first, because that was a better designed game.

I mean, I guess I'm harsh, but SA2 just feels like a chore to play compared to the first game to me. Though the sonic/shadow levels are fun. Just not fun enough to save the game.

>>4129385
There's less pop-in in the Gamecube version for one. Also I remember Robonik's mech had a flashlight on Gamecube that it didn't on Dreamcast. There are probably more changes but I don't recall every single one.

>>4129129
The extra stuff is for the multiplayer that no one in the right mind was playing anyway, so most of it went without even being used anyway.

>>4129385
https://tcrf.net/Sonic_Adventure_2:_Battle/Changes_from_the_Dreamcast_Version
this is pretty comprehensive

>>4129497
I played it with one of my best friends 2 summers straight. It was fucking awesome. We really only did the sonic and shadow stages but it was really fun with 2 people who know what they are doing.

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>>4129502

>>4129502
Most of these changes are so minimal, why the fuck did they even bother.

>>4129497
The Chao garden (often said to be the best part of SA2) was expanded and improved on Battle.

>>4129523
Nothing was expanded or improved. The gamecube just had to make adjustments because there was no internet connectivity like in the DC version.

>>4130509
>removed online bullshit
That alone seems like a huge improvement, it's just better to raise Chao on Battle.

>>4129516
So they actually went and made the outfit MORE provocative? Normally you see people covering shit up in revisions of a game.

>>4124958
It's worth pointing out that you can beat all the Genesis Sonic games "in a couple hours" as well. Relatively speaking, if Sonic Adventure was only Sonic's levels, his trial missions and the Chao Garden it would still be on par with Sonic 2 or 3 regarding content and length.

>>4125893
>it's totally in character for Sonic to try to cut Shadow off as soon as he says "you're not even good enough", too

The funny thing is that even in that scene where Eggman watches the news, you could argue him "cutting off" the newscaster is because he saw the Emerald on the broadcast footage.

>>4130514
>removed online bullshit
Yeah I hate when online capable consoles use that ability.
The DC did it well too, with seasonal themes and stuff. The online aspect of games hadn't become the cancer it is now.

>>4121345
I fucking love SA2 infinitely more than SA1. The scoring system and mission stuff does a shitload to make it a thoroughly more engaging and replayable experience.

It has some flaws in that the mech stages are a mixed bag and that the treasure hunting stages are hurt by the nerfing of the radar; but, it's still fucking great.

>>4121345
> "We always have threads about SA1"

I should browse here more often then, SA1 is one of all time favorites.

SA2 has really great stages, but there's a few things I don't like

For a Sonic game, some of the levels are seriously lacking in color.

Mech levels would be a lot better if the jumps were higher and the speed was boosted.

Hub worlds were fun as hell, why were they gotten rid of?

But the levels are really fun. If I ranked the main Sonic games, SA2 ties with Generations for 4th place.

>>4121345
Eggman holding a gun to amy was pretty intense. They should do this eggman again more often.

This is one of those purely opinion things, I know, but I honestly don't see how anyone could enjoy SA2. The mech levels play like they are seriously for very VERY young children and the hunting stages are a snooze.
The running levels are okay but not even all that fluid or exciting much less good enough to overrule the rest of the game's flaws.

I wish I DID like it. Life is better when there are more things to like. But damn SA2 is just so bad top to bottom. How? HOW do you guys like it? What enjoyment are you able to mine from this shit heap?

>>4132274
I'll be honest with you, getting high helps.
The treasure hunt levels are fun while blazed. You just stop caring about the time limit and just goof around, and lots of funny things happen.

>>4132274
I liked how sonic adventure 2 could take itself seriously and not go owe the edge like shadow the hedgehog did. It has it's moments of being hammy, but it adds to the charm of the game.

It's good but I can understand why people wouldn't like it.

>>4132274
Personally, I have a lot of nostalgia for it. There was a strategy guide for it in Tips and Tricks magazine when the game first came out, but I didn't have a Dreamcast at the time, so I just read that strategy guide over and over, getting more and more hyped for the game. Then that Christmas I finally got a Dreamcast and SA2, but I didn't have a VMU at first that I could save my game on, so for a few days I would just replay the first two or three levels of the Hero story and then turn the Dreamcast off because, I dunno, I was 9 at the time and I was afraid the system would break if I left it on too long.

So it's a pretty special game to me. But that's not the only reason I like it. Sonic and Shadow's levels are quite good. The treasure hunting levels all look cool, if nothing else. There's a lot to play with in the Chao garden. The boss battles are cool. There's plenty of stuff to like.

>>4126141
Sega went full jew

>>4132279
This. SA2 found a pretty good balance between being serious enough to present a tangible threat (and thereby give the player a sense of overcoming something formidable through their actions in-game) and the necessary amount of levity that would serve to endear the player to the characters and the world.

>>4132274
SA2's incredible if you enjoy score attack styles of gameplay (especially considering the 5 different missions for every given stage). Not so much if you're not into that arcade-esque manner of play.

The sonic/shadow levels have you balance out going through the levels quickly (for the purpose of getting a good time bonus) with killing enemies efficiently and thoroughly enough to secure additional points, while also keeping track of and maintaining rings for bonus points and occasionally doing acrobatics off ramps and such in order to further improve your score.

The treasure hunting levels emphasize efficient navigation and memorization of the areas the emeralds COULD be (there's only ever a certain amount of potential locations) and thus it's great if you enjoy trying to figure out an optimal route and following that through to its logical conclusion.

The shooting levels are akin to the running levels in that they're focused on maintaining speed and progressing through the stages at a decent clip while also ensuring that you can maximize your scores through racking up points through the lock-on multiplier thing (and you DO maintain momentum while running if you continue heading forwards, so it becomes more about knowing how to efficiently do both simultaneously as you mosey on forwards through the stages). This is the shallowest of the three styles, but there is a fair amount of depth inherent to figuring out each stage by virtue of the variety in level design and geometry.