Best Strategy RPGs from the 16 bit era? About to start

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>>4120307
Langrisser 2/ Der Langrisser (Genesis and SNES)
Metal Marines / Militia (SNES)
The Shining Force games (Genesis)
Feda: The Emblem of Justice (SNES)

Im playing ogre battle but I find myself being too protective of my units. Since they gain experience.

Dunno if I should treat them as if they are explendable. Like a boss softening party or something

>>4120347
This. But Langrisser 2 > Der.

>>4120473
KoL was terrible. Battles were too long and once you get the better classes like Knight and a few magic weapons, it was easier than LUCT with bows. Plot was also retarded.

>>4120534
>Dunno if I should treat them as if they are explendable.
You should. Unless you rush through the game, you get more than enough free units thrown at you, and money won't be a problem in late game.

>>4120685
Which should tell you a lot about the current state of SRPGs

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Plebs.

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>>4120685
KoL was awesome, the only fault it had is slowdown and static elemental bonuses, but balance wise it at least didn't have the same flaws of archers and such from (original) LuCT. It could have been better or more difficult, but the same can be said of all/most SRPGs and KoL does have insane challenges on Quest mode. What's there is great, original LuCT has a lot more gameplay issues.

"Once you get the better clases" yes, but are you forgetting that you need to earn the stats and the emblems by playing in a certain way with each unit? You can't just cheese things right off the bat, and unless you have a guide it's not like just training aimlessly will let you earn emblems (in fact, training too much only lets you earn a negative emblem). Also Knights are not that good, do you even Swordmaster?

Plot was great, I don't know what you're talking about. It's way more interesting and emotional than MotBQ and on par with PoLC, it's like PoLC lite and without the homoerotic main relationship. It's also way too different from LuCT to really compare, because LuCT was more epic and extremely politics oriented, while KoL was more intimate and character driven. I personally prefer plots that have KoL's style. It did lack more story branches though, but it had some and provided, in a very clever way, an actual reason and motivation for Lans in LuCT. It's also the only game in the series where Lodis isn't just a two-dimensional stereotype. How was it "retarded"?

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>>4120735
I prefer FM3 because I like animes.

>>4120775
>Lans in LuCT.
It never explained why Lodis Lans became a dark and edgy edgelord in LUCT. Intimate? Nah, I don't feel the love or romance at all. It just feels forced on, so you can have some multiple endings including one where you can KYS.

>>4120775
>Quest mode.
Oh and that is one of the reasons the game CAN get very easy very fast. Once you can find and beat one of the easier maps, you can have a whole frontline team with magic spears. Yes, it's optional. But if the battles gets so boring, I might as well abuse that and breeze through them just to see if it gets any better... it didn't.

>>4120792
The love and romance isn't "forced on" when the entire game revolves around it, including the possible endings. Also it does explain the why, "Lans" became extremely depressed, thus dark and edgy, after the resolution of the Shaher battle. He was rewarded by the Pope the title and position he had in LuCT since, you know, he GOT RID OF LUCIFER, and since in the canon ending the woman he loved literally went up to heaven it makes sense that he'd want to get on a mission to open a gate to heaven in LuCT.

That's not the plot being retarded, that's you dismissing it all aside and purposefully not taking any of it into consideration.

Also the multiple endings, like the whole game, feature various types of romance, but they don't depend on the romance, they depend on whether or not you want to trick and kill a bunch of mermaids or not, but of course you would already know this if you had actually read the story that was presented to you.

>>4120798
You definitely don't know what you're talking about or are just remembering the game in a blur, because Quest Mode is only accessible well into the game and you can only get more levels in there after certain points of the main story, and the rewards you get are based on how challenging the battle is. So you can't take an easy level and win "magic spears", and I don't even know what that means, are you talking about the spear SKILL? Cause you can only get that one when beating the final Quest mode level, which is near the end of the main storyline, so wtf are you talking about. It's also a skill that hurts you so good luck abusing it during the final battle.

>>4120307
Why not Black Queen first?

>>4120813
No. Literal earth-elemental spears. I had like 6 of them by endgame.

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>>4120847
Too many people with shit taste I guess.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/game-boy-advance/tactics-ogre-the-knight-of-lodis

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/ogre-battle-the-march-of-the-black-queen

>>4120860
There's only one earth spear that has absolutely nothing impressive or "magical" about it and is dropped by an enemy through the game. There's another elemental spear that can be won through the easier winning conditions on Quest mode that still isn't all that, and then there's a bane/dark spear that has good effects but can only be won through the hardest difficulty settings (ie only available near the end of the game) and still pales compared to the myriad of other equipment you can get. So I still have no idea wtf you're talking about. It honestly sounds like you're just grasping at misremembered straws.

>>4120867
Metacritic barely works for games before the fifth/sixth gen.

Plus Black Queen is an RTS and not a turn-based Tactics game, comparing it to Knight of Lodis is like comparing oranges and apples.

>>4120867
They have different styles, but besides MAYBE the music there isn't a single aspect of March of the Black Queen that's better than Knight of Lodis.

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>>4120685
>Plot was also retarded.
What's retarded is the plot of March of the Black Queen. What's also retarded is Matsuno dissing Knight of Lodis and Person of Lordly Caliber saying they weren't his vision or whatever because the Pope was actually old in those games. I'm just sure his vision would have had Lodis as a mustache twirling evil conclave that seduces young revolutionary Lans and involves a bishounen Sardian somehow. Also Ovis or whatever the setting is is a chaos gate and the whole plot is told in purely political terms.

Say what you will, but I think we can be pretty sure the final Knight of Lodis had a much more creative plot than the usual Matsuno offering.

Also screw him for selling out to Square, he deserved that mental breakdown.

>>4120307
No, too much hard.

What is the most easy version of TO?

>>4120307
There is no strategy in that game though, you just have to grind. Same as the teams other game FFT.

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I love SRW3

Should I play the SNES or PS1 version of March of the Black Queen?

>>4123307
You know it is possible to play those games without grinding and actually using tactics to overcome more powerful opponents.

Tactics Ogre snes does require some grinding in that you need to try and keep your team around the same level, since the enemies are balanced to your highest level character. The game does have an auto train feature so you can just sit back and watch your men train, but the way stats work training is super important in the early game.

I played FFT Advance today for the first time since high school.

What a pile of shit this game is.

>>4123397
I always get hyped as I start playing it but then I become too strong the moment the story gets boring and the sidequests become shit, so I drop it

Happened easily 4 times

Also not retro

>>4123417
I still can't believe the GBA doesn't count as retro, but you're right.

Somebody? >>4122816

isn't knight of lodis that generic trpg where none of the strategy or tactics matter because all you do is leave the characters in their starting classes and have them use the same spells as their own element on everything

and it's just some guy whose a soldier from the empire who gets swooned by a girl who knows magic and mends his ways to fight against evil

like holy shit why even bother you've already played it before you've played it

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>>4123397
>tfw FFTA2
Only game I know I've finished but can't for the life of me remember the plot
I can remember the whole Duelhorn sidequest fine but not the main fucking story

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>>4123350
Play the SNES version, PS1 has some graphical enhancements and the translation uses the terminology used in the other games so it's a bit more coherent, but it uses this really shitty Diablo font in ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME. Pic related. It's easier to just emulate the SNES version, you won't miss anything.

>>4123469
None of that happens in the game. It is worth it to equip same elemental magic as the character's element because you get a boost, but you can't even equip magic on the starter classes and you won't have enough money or spare spellbooks to just assign same element magic to everyone at the start. Plenty of classes are specialized in non elemental skills and magic, too.

The protagonist fights FOR Lodis throughout the entire game, the big path splitting decision being to either aid a shadowy religious branch of Lodis that seeks to restore theocratic power to the Pope, or to aid a political branch of Lodis familiar to the protagonist that seeks to enhance the political power of the empire rather than the religious power of it. The girl the protagonist meets doesn't sway him one way or another, and if recruited they both fight for Lodis for their own reasons. The canon choice is to help the shadowy pro-Pope cabal. It's the only game in the Saga that's pro-Lodis (while acknowledging the damage it does) and the story actually validates Lodisism, so I really don't know how you could gather it's a generic "anti empire" story when it's the only one sympathetic to the empire.

>>4123457
The game is very easy, don't worry

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>>4123397
What killed it for you? The implementation of the judge system is what did it for me, it's just so restrictive and annoying rather than strategic or difficult, and it just makes the entire game a huge randomly generated hassle. I couldn't stand the graphic design either.

It's even more painful to think that Quest was dissolved and absorbed into square for FFTA. The Ogre Battle series died for that game to exist. Let that sink it.

>>4123493
Pic related is the only thing I can think of when I remember FFTA2 exists, and I did finish it too.

>>4123627
Sorry, maybe my answer was a bit short.

Best version is the PSP one by far, difficulty is arguably the same in every version

The issue with this game is that some classes are very overpowered, and 90% of the rest is just shit. It feels cheap but you can easily steamroll the game with archers and a couple healers. When elemental damage kicks in the game turns into a joke. Yet archers are nowhere near as overpowered as the best class, go figure.

I've been on the same playthrough for years because I purposely end up handicapping myself to not beat it so easily, but I end up getting bored of doing that so I drop it again. I have a 4 months old save that's like an hour away from beating the game. Post game content is just ridiculous, and I'm a completionist so it feels disheartening.

>>4123616
>PS1 has some graphical enhancements and the translation uses the terminology used in the other games so it's a bit more coherent
Eh, these mean more to me than the shitty font. And I have no troubles emulating PS1 in RA.

Thanks for pointing out the differences, anon.

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>>4123645
Graphical effects are polygon effects in lieu of sprite based effects, that's up to your own preference, but they do clash with the aesthetic of the game. The translation differences are honestly minor and focused on specific terms than anything too important ("Lodis" instead of "Lodisti"), but if you do plan to, say, play Person of Lordly Caliber, it will definitely help to stick to the new translation. PS1 also has loading times, making an already slow game even slower, but just fast forward and it won't be an issue.

The best looking version of the game is the Saturn one if only because the enhancements don't clash with the aesthetic. It's the only version where the characters have colored sprites on the field instead of monochromatic static figures, too.

>>4123469
IIRC characters using same element spell as their own get a 11% spell damage boost, yes. But that doesn't take into account

Target element, which if opposite to the caster can and does nullify the damage boost
Terrain element, which can buff or debuff even more the elemental attack power
Positioning, projectile spells won't get through certain obstacles
The fact that while most classes allow one or two spells to be equipped, only specialized classes have enough INT and MP gains to make spellcasting a worthy primary attack method
The fact that all spellcasting focused classes have terrible movement so you can't just go around fireballing everyone unless you get equipment to aid mobility
The fact that spellbooks in general are hard to come by, especially in the beginning when you can't quest
The fact that you start with 0 MP on every battle so you can't just spam spells and win
The fact that elemental damage and terrain buffs ALSO affects physical attacks through special and rare weapons, which is often much more handy than spellcasting for all the previously explained reasons

You really don't know anything about the game, the plot you describe is completely off, your army serves the empire throughout the game, the existence of rhe main conflict proves that the empire is in the right, the most you can do to rebel is ditch other empire characters but you're still helping the empire and the girl has nothing to do with any of that.

I take it you've never played the game

>>4122069
>I'm just sure his vision would have had Lodis as a mustache twirling evil conclave that seduces young revolutionary Lans and involves a bishounen Sardian somehow. Also Ovis or whatever the setting is is a chaos gate and the whole plot is told in purely political terms.

That's my fetish!

I know it's a bit ot, but is KoL worth to play? I see many people hate it and consider LuCT the best in the series. But now reading the posts in this thread I'm not sure about it anymore. Should I bother to play it?

>>4124653
it has some nice gameplay improvements over the snes version of LUCT (being able to see who you're fighting against while placing your units on the field, most classes being able to use at least one spell, every class having a recruitment skill etc.), but it's really easy (then again so is the PSP version of LUCT)

>>4124653
Back when it was released KoL met with universal acclaim, the hate it gets stems from Matsuno fanboys who also shit on PoLC. KoL does many things better than the original LuCT, and it depends on your taste but I enjoyed the KoL setting and story a lot more than MotBQ and LuCT. It's definitely worth a go, if nothing else just because the Ogre Battle saga is dead and KoL does help shed light on the inner workings of the main antagonistic force. It has flaws but like >>4124661 pointed out, so do the other game(s) in the saga. Don't be deterred by the Matsuno fanboyism.

>>4125412
Ty anon, I was putted off because everyone said it was bad, but now I'll give it a try.

>>4120473
Everything every iteration of LUCT has tried is done better in FFT.

I'm honestly starting to think that there will never be a japanese style SRPG that outclasses FFT.

>>4124653
I used to clock plenty of hours in KoL back when it was released. I have seriously never heard of people bashing it. It's a great game that balances being streamlined for a handheld with the expected depth of an SRPG.

Like any game, it's easy when you know where to go and how to break it. I think these idiots use a walkthrough and then complain about it.

Which is the order you should play the Ogre series? Any game outside of OB-TO the series is related to it in any way?

>>4126019
The Ogre series were made a la Star Wars, with several episodes in mind right from the first game created. You can choose to go either by release order or by chronological order.

Release order:
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (SNES)
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (SNES, PS1, PSP)
Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber (N64)
Legend of Ogre Battle: Prince of Zenobia (NGC)
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis (GBA)

Chronological order:
Gaiden: The Knight of Lodis (GBA) (Happens ~20 years before the rest of the games)
Gaiden: Legend of Ogre Battle: Prince of Zenobia (NGC) (Happens immediately before and alongside Episode V)
Episode V: March of the Black Queen (SNES)
Episode VI: Person of Lordly Caliber (N64)
Episode VII: Let Us Cling Together (SNES, PS1, PSP)

I'd say play them by release order, just bear in mind the chronological "position" of whatever game you're playing.

No other game outside of the series is related to it plot-wise, but the makers of the SNES Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre were bought off the Ogre Battle team by Square. They made Final Fantasy Tactics. Later on, Square bought off the entire team and they were responsable for Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. So in a way those games are related to the series through the gameplay ideas, but they don't have anything to do with the series' stories.

>>4125478
I don't think they're even using a walkthrough to cheese the game, all the KoL hate in this thread mentions very little real info and a whole bunch of conjecture or outright nonsense ("breaking" the game through elemental spells and "magical spears", seriously...)

It definitely is a great game and it's worth playing as the last swan song of the saga unless you count the PSP Wheel of Fate remake.

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>>4126110
>Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
And that's another spinoff which sucked. Call me a fanboy all you want.
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=112

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>>4127852
>VGcats
Opinion discarded.

>>4126110
>I don't think they're even using a walkthrough to cheese the game.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/468482-tactics-ogre-the-knight-of-lodis/faqs/31033
>[1]. INTRODUCTION
>This guide has two purposes: (1) Provide the fastest possible ways to cheat
>your way to the A+ ending; and (2) Provide strategies to obtain the A+ ending
>legitimately in one play-through.

Har har. "Facts , man. How do they werk?"

>Inb4 gamefaqs is all shitposting HATERS.

Fanboys are so retarded amirite?

You summerfags are full of shit.

>>4127864
Play the game and tell me it's not true. The paedophilia is debatable depending on how much you think of the children and how everyone main cast in the game is literally kiddies.

But facts, maaaaan. They don't matter when I'm fanboy.

>>4127864
This. The law system is incredibly easy to cheese anyway. Just roam around on the map an extra move or two and get the laws you want.

>>4127872
What the fuck are you on about? The walkthrough you linked to not only is focused on how to cheat your way to the best ending, but also doesn't talk about how to cheese the game through the non existing/non functional methods mentioned in this thread by the KoL haters.

If anything, it's pretty telling that a FAQ on how to get the most difficult ending is heavily focused on cheating, despite retards claiming the game is easy and all you need is assign same element spells to everyone.

>>4127852
I'm absolute shit at videogames yet I can't believe there's so much people bawwing about the judge system. I mean, really?

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>>4128537
It could actually be funny as well, I remember fighting a clan and wondering why they were only moving and taking no actions
I then realised one of the laws was against ranged attacks and that was their entire theme

>>4123493
That's the point, some saint at S-E decided to spare some of us from another FFT or FFTA sort of "plot" by keeping it very minimal to non-existent.

>>4120307
Probably Bahamut lagoon could count as a strategy game.

There's a lot of Ogre discussion here, can someone fill me in on making Angel Knights in OB64?
I have all the gear, and a Lawful character who fulfills the stat requirements (Katreda). Not a unit leader.

I cheeze the Suspend function because I'm playing on a V2 Everdrive - the game only actually saves while resetting, so I can suspend, reset, reload, and shut off the power to keep my suspended file. So Katreda is dead, I have Magnus near the boss, I just win the mission and reload if I don't get an angel. Takes like 5 minutes tops.
But Katreda has never so much as become a zombie! Never anything. So I wonder, is a character's transformation decided after the mission, or at the character's death? Because if she dies, and then the game rolls, I may have saved after a "bad roll" and no amount of reloading and winning will change it.

For all I know, maybe it's decided at the start of the mission! Which would mean, even saving BEFORE a character's death would change nothing! You'd be forced to replay the entire mission every time!

I'm 1/3-1/2 the way through Ogre Battle and I've really lost interest.

The whole thing just isn't that compelling to me anymore. Is there any plot reason to keep playing? I kind of want to skip to Tactics Ogre for the SNES.

>>4130062
the same will happen to you with tactics ogre probably

langrisser is cool for a series i really only discovered because of the artist's porn

>>4130095
tactics ogre is a much better and different game

I'm about to start Person of Lordly Caliber. What's all the stuff that's good to know for someone who has played MotBQ and LUCT? Any important changes or concepts? Also, how do you guys think it stacks up to the other games?

>>4131007
It's much easier to manage your reputation in OB64. Called "Chaos Frame", it's only changed by story decisions (such as choosing one mission over another) and whether you "liberate" or "capture" strongholds. Capturing lowers your rep, liberating raises it. The only flaw is that you can't see your Chaos Frame. I think in MotBQ, you have a little reputation meter so you always know how well you're doing. In OB64, you'll just get an idea of where you're at, based on whether certain characters join you or reject you.

>>4128537
>>4128940
>>4128179
Also GBA is stil NOT RETRO.

>>4131637
Ah. I can' t delete my not retro posts now. Damn you /v/ tiers ruining my lawful goodness.

>>4131637
Disregards, I suck cocks

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>>4130054
Alright, I finally did it! The only thing I did differently, was that I killed a few more lawful girls. Then they finally started changing, and eventually Katreda became an Angel Knight.
Now I just wonder, does the game consider her dead or alive? In the Hugo Report, her age is gone, and says "She has become a warrior of the heavens". I don't know if that's a generic line for a dead character or if it actually is referencing her new class. I guess I'll find out at the end of the game, if she appears in any of the ending scenes. I imagine, if she does, that she'll have her old Cleric sprite.

is there any chance to play these games on ps4?
i so badly want to play these old gems, i just dont know how...

>>4131705
From what I remember, if requirements are met there's a 10% chance of characters becoming Angel Knights after ending a scene, 30% chance of becoming zombies, and 60% chance of nothing happening. So it's just RNG, I think.

That line in Katreda's report is unique to her and she still appears in the ending as if she were herself. Other characters who transmigrate are considered dead, she's an exception to this. I'm going from memory of course, but I'm pretty sure that's the case because I did the same thing ages ago and she appeared in the ending.

>>4131762
So if I turn Asnabel into a vampire, do you think will he be considered dead?
I'm just trying to make a "special" undead unit, lead by a Seraph with 2 liches 2 vampires. Might be neat to have a Father-Daughter undead combo in there.

>>4131921
I don't think I tried this out with vampires as I never bothered with them, but since vampires are undead I would think that Asnabel would count as dead. From what I remember, you CAN change special character classes without "losing" them plot-wise, and in during the ending they'll even revert to their original sprites, and I also remember from what I tested way back when that Katreda's situation was a unique one. Other characters were simply "lost" and become generic ones if they transmigrate. I may be wrong though, maybe there are other characters who have unique combinations that the game's plot recognizes like Katreda being an angel... But I wouldn't know for sure.

>>4131757
>MUH ps4?
>i so badly want to play these old gems, i just dont know how...

You're just being a console fag or an ebay shiller. Google it.

>>4131509
Thanks, anon.

>>4123772
I never sided with Cybil over Ricter, what changes storywise? Is the Hand of the Pope ever expanded upon?

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>>4132717
If you side with Cybil, Shaher ends up possessing Rictor. Alphonse kills him and decides to stop Shaher; Cybil offers to help you. After that point the game pretty much railroads you into heading off to Shaher's prison, the changes affect the character interactions more than anything (like Shaher using Rictor's image to fuck with Alphonse, etc). KoL doesn't focus on politics after the spear search turns into a religious matter until the ending.

The A ending has Eleanor being raptured up to heaven with Shaher and Alphonse fleeing from Ovis because Rictor's dad, the Duke, is sending people to arrest him for killing his son. Cybil stays in Ovis and sees him off. Alphonse turns in the spear to the Pope and he is bestowed the name of Lans Tartare for his deeds. The Duke is punished for the spear plot fucking Ovis up and loses pretty much all his political power, and the Pope regains total control over Lodis, paving the way for LuCT and PoLC to happen.

With the Pope back in power there's no need for the Hand to exist anymore (Cybil sort of acknowledges this), but I guess we're meant to infer that it evolves into the Dark Knights Loslorien since they're like an enhanced version of it. How Saldian regained control also explains why Lodis begins to focus on searching for mystical stuff during the other games, and how Alphonse became Lans may also explain why he takes on the chaos gate mission -- Eleonor is still in heaven during LuCT and a chaos gate can take him there.