This isn't a discussion of which was better, because that's

>>4105391
I believe the snes overall was, it came out a but later so it naturally would, but the genesis had a much faster processor then the snes allowing it to do some incredible stuff just not possible on snes.

/vr/ still believes you can't like both and that you must choose a side.

>>4105396
I think most of us do like both I know I have fallen into the prosega shitposting crowd because I just get so damn sick of hearing about how powerful the snes is what a piece of shit the genesis is and how its music sounds like farts and other dank underage /vr/ memes

I think they both have their advantages though if you want to push sprites around really fast you need the genesis.

If you want a pretty rpg you want the snes higher color count cause frames arent the highest importance

>>4105391
The Genesis has 32x and CD FTW. The SNES is the first nintendcuck machine where they just kept coming out with Mario sequels.

>>4105443

SNES could run Doom WITHOUT addons.

>>4105443
>F-Zero
>Super Metroid
>ALTTP
>Donkey Kong Country
>Star Fox
>Pilot Wings
>Earthbound

>All mario sequels

>>4105462
Doom needed the SuperFX 2

>>4105462
It needed an add-on. SNES Doom looks and plays like garbage, while the only problem with 32X Doom is missing content and farty music.

super nintendo was way more powerful, it came out like 2 full years after the genesis was out which is unheard of especially in this day and age. genesis had a faster processor tho which is kind of pathetic if you think about it.

>>4105436
the genesis was a solid system, it was the saturn when they really started fucking up

It really depends on how you define "more powerful". Games that were built around the 68k (like Alien Soldier) wouldn't be possible on SNES. Games that revolved around mode 7 wouldn't be possible on Genesis.

But having said that, the Neo Geo was a cut above them both. All games that were ported from Neo Geo to the other systems were inferior to the originals, and games like Metal Slug were simply too much for them to handle. Even the mighty 2D powerhouse Saturn struggled with that game.

>>4105391
Genesis' CPU is more powerful, but only by a bit (under similar workloads, it's like you had a 5-6MHz 68k compared to the 7.6MHz 68k in the Genesis).
The Genesis is also a fair bit better with memory access speed across the board.
it'd be closer, but the SNES has awful CPU slowdown when accessing memory at all (like at all -- anyone doing comparisons assuming full 3.58MHz is bullshitting you, it's clocked down to 2.6 a lot of the time)
the 68k is a nice architecture and is basically a 32-bit architecture implemented as a 16-bit one (and basically every 680x0 CPU from the 020 on is a true 32-bit machine) with 24-bit addressing because it's also from the end of the 70s and both decisions were cost cutting ones
it gets trounced in IPC by the SNES's CPU, so the clockrate difference isn't remotely as bad as people assume, the SNES isn't half the speed of the Genesis

[continued in next post]

>>4106146
>tl;dr BLAST PROCESSING

>>4106149
basically

>>4106146
[continued]

That being said, SNES has massively better video (hardware blending layer blending, 15-bit RGB system palette (blending isn't limited by it, too), hardware background scaling, a TON more sprites available and per-line -- which is useful since you can't show another background when using Mode 7, so you can compose it with sprites)... but it requires much more memory access to work with as a whole than working with the Genesis VDP, and that makes things a bit slower. It's also a less straightforward design in general compared to the Genesis VDP.
The SNES video modes are pretty advanced all around and you can switch them mid-screen (which is how games that use Mode 7 do anything at all, really.
Genesis has 512 directly addressable colors (and you get more shades with the hard-to-use highlight/shadow mode). If it had more colors, the other things might matter less, but the really low color depth kills it.
You get loads more colors on screen at once.

there's a few things that make the Genesis better at plotting graphics in software instead of using hardware, eg for polygon graphics, but I can't remember the details and it's not like I've done any polygon anything, it is related to the faster memory access

[continued in next post]

>>4105391
The one that doesn't need extra processors in carts to get shit done

>>4106150
[continued]

Genesis has one more audio channel than the SNES, but it might as well not count. Genesis has 6 FM channels, 3 PSG channels, and a noise channel. The PSG can't play particularly low notes at all. One of the FM channels can switched to direct output mode to play PCM audio (eg, for drums and voices). It also has a z80 CPU dedicated for offloading sound playback to, but you can run it on the 68k anyway.
in contrast, SNES has 8 full PCM audio channels, controlled by a dedicated DSP chip that's basically separate from the rest of the machine -- you upload a sound program and samples into the (appallingly tiny) 64kB of sound RAM, some of which is used as a DSP buffer for echo and shit, and just poll it once in a while to trigger sound effects.
you can do shit like stream samples into it or control it from the SNES, but it's a bit tricky and basically only Star Ocean bothers

Genesis gets shit on for audio. Doesn't help that a ridiculous portion of Genesis units have a fucked up audio amp -- Sega went, fixed some minor issues with the original audio output... and then fucked everything up in the amplifying stage.
FM is tricky and it's easy to make everything sound harsh and metallic or like literal asses.
PCM is easy. Anyone who's ever used a tracker or sampler can make a SNES song without trying too hard.

[continued again in next post]

>>4106182
Extra processor in cart > Useless addon every developer avoides to widen their base

>>4106185
I'd rather buy the useless add-on than buy the same chip in several games.

>>4106183
[continued -- last post]

the only thing stopping the SNES from being better in every way that matters to the Genesis in audio is the tiny sound RAM forcing samples to be really low quality, even if you had the space on cart (unless you stream them in like Star Ocean does) -- the samples are 4-bit ADPCM compressed from plain 16-bit PCM and that helps a ton, but it's still not that much space
Genesis audio is instead crystal clear realtime synth, and not needing to load as many samples in saves precious ROM space.
Also, the Genesis can stream 8-bit PCM data straight from cart... but no commercial game uses this in-game because it chews through ROM space absurdly fast. The SEGA sound in Sonic 1 does exactly this. You can technically get much clearer sound than on SNES, but it's not common in practice.

Ultimately, the SNES wins in terms of power, but for a 1988 machine against a 1990 one, the Genesis puts up a surprising fight.

>>4106185
32X wasn't avoided, loads of devs had 32X projects in the pipeline (which then got cancelled).
It also sold through like all of it's first shipment pretty quickly (which was smallish because they had supply chain issues because lol loads of components in it are being used for Saturn as well).

people were interested, but real 32-bit machines were right around the corner -- and why the living fuck does was it released in the US at the same time as the Saturn was being released in Japan, that was dumb
it was a mistake, but it shouldn't have been as big of one as it ended up being (really, it's still really hard to believe just how badly Sega fucked up in the late-94 into 1995 period
and then they kept fucking up, Sega basically dropped all Genesis support allowing Nintendo to dominate late-94 into 1996 with the SNES for fucking free

>>4106146
>Genesis' CPU is more powerful, but only by a bi
Wrong. Depending on the workload, it is a minimum 50% faster (simple bit manipulation), and up to 500% faster or even more (particularly for register and instruction heavy operations like pseudo-SIMD).

>Genesis is also a fair bit better with memory access speed across the board
A bit? Try double memory speed. (5 MB/s vs 2.5 MB/s)

>it gets trounced in IPC by the SNES's CPU,
IPC of the simplest instructions is 50% worse on 68k (still giving it a 50% speed advantage due to clockspeed) however the SNES CPU lacks registers, has a highly limited instruction set, and has a very narrow memory bus. at doing any operations outside of its comfort zone, it is super fucking slow since to match a 68k it will have to cycle several instructions for a single 68k one and stall on memory a lot of the time. So you're both wrong and right. Best case scenario SNES isn't half as fast, but worst case it is many many times slower.

>>4106150
>massively better video
Hyperbole. It has trouble handling large resolutions, which is why the typical game is 256x224 vs 320x224 on Genesis

>a TON more sprites available and per-line
The theoretical maximum is slightly higher but it will never reach it because sprite count are CPU and memory bound. Genesis has more CPU and more memory speed and it probably couldn't reach its own maximum anyway, so the SNES has no chance, making this a dud point.

>>4106183
>Genesis has one more audio channel than the SNES, but it might as well not count
You might want to check your maths...6+3+1 is 10 which is 2 higher than SNES's 8.

Also just because PSG and noise channel have their limitations don't mean they are useless. Streets of Rage 2 uses every single channel (there's a breakdown video out there) to produce a layered 10-channel BGM which the SNES could not replicate.

>controlled by a dedicated DSP chip
Z80 is fully programmable, this is not. It's a disadvantage.

>>4106206
>Ultimately, the SNES wins in terms of power,
The Genesis wins in power (as defined by traditional metrics of CPU and memory thouroughput) there's little question if you look objectively. Stuff like Mode 7 isn't indicative of hardware power - it's a matrix operation baked straight into the hardware, it doesn't actually accelerate matrix operations other than the single one it does.

However, the SNES does produce prettier visuals from its more advanced color subsystem. Irrespective from audio quality (which is subjective) it's also arguable I suppose that the SNES had the more technologically advanced sound subsystem.

Honestly, given its 2 year later release date, the SNES should have won on every front, and indeed would have if a 10mhz 68k (along with 16-bit memory) was included as originally planned.

>more powerful
Consoles are inanimate objects, they can't run for presidency elections.

>>4106228
>IPC of the simplest instructions is 50% worse on 68k
maybe I'm just flat-out misremembering, but I could have swore some instructions took like a third of the clock cycles on SNES than on Genesis
did this whole writeup purely from memory, so I could totally be wrong

>Hyperbole. It has trouble handling large resolutions, which is why the typical game is 256x224 vs 320x224 on Genesis
well, yes, 256x224 is the standard resolution of the machine (chosen likely to match the NES, and a lot of the design choices of the SNES seem to be rooted in abandoned NES backwards compatibility), it was made to output that, none of the SNES video modes output square pixels
but it flat out does more than the Genesis VDP in every other way, from colors, to addressable sprites, to sprite-per-line limit, to background layers, you can't actually argue against that

>You might want to check your maths...6+3+1 is 10 which is 2 higher than SNES's 8.
it's after midnight, whoops
kind of discounted that noise channel (I do like it, and I do appreciate certain features it has, like the "pulse" mode (which can do bass notes, although I'm pretty sure zero Genesis games use this feature, there's like one or two SMS games that use it, and GP-World on the SG-1000 uses it) and being able to link with the third tone channel for freely adjustable pitch, which I do remember hearing in Genesis games)

>Z80 is fully programmable, this is not. It's a disadvantage.
the SNES SPC chip is a microcontroller running actual code uploaded to it with its own instruction set
unless you mean using the z80 to do non-music tasks on the Genesis, and I'm pretty sure no game actually does that, not outside of Master System compatibility mode

>>4106239
>Ultimately, the SNES wins in terms of power,
yeah, I defined power more in terms of the overall final impression rather than raw CPU grunt when I wrote that

btw SNES > Genesis.
It's okay to love both, but if you try to say that the Genesis was better, you are only being contrarian.

>>4106292
Yeah I agree, the Genesis is the best between the two.

>>4106268
>background layers
I've covered the other things, but I haven't covered thus. While it is strictly true that the SNES PPU supports an extra background layer, the devil is in the details. Each tile on Genesis has greater row scrolling independence than equivalent scrolling tiles on SNES so in practical terms there's no real difference in 'layers'. Genesis has one fewer layer, but it can better manipulate the scrolling in layers that it does have.

>I'm pretty sure no game actually does that
IIRC Road Rash runs all of the game logic on the Z80, freeing up the 68k to do nothing but scale sprites.

>>4106292
SNES is only better if you have a hard-on for JRPGs or Nintendo's shitty IPs.

The one with the sound chip that didn't sound like farts.

>>4106194
Addon chips is one of the advantages of the cartridge format. Why ignore it?

SNES was superior to genesis in every technical aspect except processor speed

>>4106292
I like arcade games which the Genesis had more ports of and even when they were multiplat the Genesis ones were usually more faithful.

>le ebin "fart sounds" meme

Bad megadrive music sounded like farts, yes

Good megadrive music was lovely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IuoQpiDu3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ubHJx-fTn0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mny0uJYWkm8

>>4106368
I love the Genesis soundchip but bursting into a thread with a strawman about something no one has even posted about comes off as incredibly insecure or an attempt at false flagging.

>>4106335
>implying SNES doesn't sound just as farty as the Genesis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw-u10F6gQ

>>4106373
>something no one has even posted about

>>4106335

>>4105391
>>4105391
Both of them has many strong point and many weak point .
They both are good console game but not be best console game never be and noway to be.

>>4106387
Yeah I agree, the 16 bit generation was the best generation with the best consoles.

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>>4106374
>using Goemon to shitpost

>>4106425
don't u mean fartpost

>>4106374
bro you just don't use goemon to shitpost. even australia kun loves goemon.
lurk a bit more before posting.

>>4106374
Welp, I love Goemon but that does sound like farts.

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

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really makes you think

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jurassic park snes had full 3d first person gameplay,

>>4106509
That's baby compared to Zero Tolerance, the FPS level in Genesis Toy Story and the Brazilian Duke 3D port.

>>4106516
>Brazilian Duke 3D port.
That was made in the Zero Tolerance engine too.

>>4106539
I doubt it, the graphics look entirely different

>>4106554
Either way it's a fucking shitty slow as molasses game coded by literal apes.

>>4106558
It runs at like triple the framerate of Jurassic Park and Wolfestein 3D on SNES and isn't super low-res either.

>>4106564
Still garbage made by smelly monkeys.

>>4106575

ur a smelly monky

>>4106589
ook ook