why did the dreamcast get so many weird and experimental titles?

Who cares why. Just appreciate that they're there.

Japan.

To match what the dreamcast was?

Because all of the developers would get in a circle, whip out their cocks and simultaneously beat the Dreamcast until it submitted (or they came).

>>4088251
SEGA was/is like that. All of their personality is in the Yakuza series now.

>>4088251
If you're going to down, might as well go down in a blaze of insane glory.

>>4088251
ps1 and ps2 got way more

>>4088523

Expressed a a percentage of all titles released? I highly doubt it. Maybe in raw numbers, but only because of the longevity of those consoles and the size of their library.
Nobody ever says "wow, the PS2 got a lot of really weird games, huh?"

>>4088251
The Dreamcast was my least favorite system of all time. My buddy had one, and no one wanted to go to his house to spend the night because the only game worth playing was Crazy Taxi and Hydro Thunder.

>>4088762
You haven't seen much of PS2 then. It's said all the time. Ps2's shovelware is infamous. Add games like katamari damacy and mister mosquito.

>>4088251
Sega developed a lot of weird and experimental titles throughout their lifespan which probably made them more opening to third party developers who did that as well. Even on the Genesis you had games like Toejam and Earl

>>4088767
katamari games sure are weird but they aren't broken shovelware like that street warrior or snow white game

>>4088767
>shovelware

Who said anything about shovelware? We were talking about weird experimental games, which are not at all shovelware.
And yeah Katamari Damacy and Mr. Mosquito qualify as weird experimental games, but they're a fairly small drop in the ocean of game for the PS2, largely thank to actual shovelware, which the Dreamcast had very little of.

>>4088858
>Who said anything about shovelware? We were talking about weird experimental games, which are not at all shovelware.
They aren't separate.

>>4088864

>They aren't separate.

Yes, they are. Artsy experimental games are not shovelware.

Shovelware is crap like Mary Kate and Ashley Manage A Restaurant IV, or The Fast and The Furious Kart Racing Grand Prix 2008. Cheap, cookie-cutter shit, usually with a tie-in license, developed quickly and with little thought and dumped on to the market en masse.
Shovelware is not just "anything that didn't sell a lot."

>>4088869
Just because it's shovelware doesn't mean it's bad.

>>4088870

What? Shovelware implies badness. It's the stuff you find piled in the bargain bin that nobody ever wants, that you have to dig through in hopes of maybe finding a gem like Katamari Damacy.

Has the concept of Shovelware mutated or something in the past ten years?

>>4088871

He's bullshitting you, m8. Notice after your point you made in >>4088869 , he suddenly changed gears with >>4088870 ?

He's interested in picking a fight, not having a discussion.

>>4088871
It's what it always meant. Shit that doesn't sell.

>>4088876
If I wanted a fight I'd just start throwing out summer shit like kid and what not.

>>4088876

Yeah, I kinda figured that. I mean I originally heard the term for the kinda shareware "1,000 games on a cd for $5!" garbage you'd find at OfficeMax in the mid 90s, but in the console realm I've always heard it used to mean cheap licensed shit produced in huge quantities that will probably end up piled in a hole and buried in the desert, with a shovel.

I mean what do you guys call all the console games that end up in the bargain bin? Not shovelware?

>>4088886

Most of them are, but you dig through the pile looking for stuff that isn't. The bad stuff is shovelware, stuff dumped on the market in hopes that someone would buy it because it regardless of bad reviews just because it has a celebrity's face stamped on the cover. You can sometimes find a good game in the bargain bin, even big name AAA titles once in a blue moon, but that game doesn't suddenly become shovelware just because a copy wound up there.
Shovelware is stuff that was born to wind up in the bargain bin, because the market for it is rubes who would buy crap.

>>4088883
>>4088886

Both of these fit the definition of shovelware.

>>4088878

This does not and is frankly retarded.

>>4088893

I'm not sure how I got a spurious "because it" in there. Ignore it. Probably linux's select-middle-click paste. I love you, but you are a harsh mistress

>>4088893
>>4088894
I just lump those games together. I've found many obscure games like Jersey Devil in the bargain bin and just lumped it as shovelware.

>>4088902

See, that's you. Just because you decided the two should be lumped together, that doesn't mean everyone else did too.

>>4088913
How do you find these odd games then? Most get pretty mediocre to bad reviews.

What's the proper definition I should use?

>>4088917

>What's the proper definition I should use?

>>4088883

>>4088925
So shovelware...

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i swear....... every dreamcast thread there is always one faggot that has to bring up the ps2 and the entire thread gets derailed.

>>4088931

Please state clearly which details of this concept you are still having difficulty grasping.

>>4088956
How a game that was rated bad, sold badly, was poorly made can be considered weird and experimental but not shovelware.

>>4088964

>poorly made

That would be your error, right there. Just because you think a game was poorly made, that doesn't mean it was.

>>4088970
Have you played Jersey Devil? Game stole sounds from multiple games including Crash lol.

>>4088964

Because it IS weird and experimental. The companies that make what is commonly referred to as "shovelware" in console gaming have a specific business model that precludes making something like that.
They make cookie-cutter games fast and cheap, and dump them on the market quickly in hopes of selling a decent number of copies before reviews and word-of-mouth kills interest, and especially so they can get the game on the shelf while their, for example, "Grumpy Cat" license is still fresh and likely to hook a few suckers.
They usually copy some more popular game's design for this. Designing new and exciting game features is NOT a feature of the shovelware market, because it increases development time and cuts into the slim but reliable profit margin their businesses are based on.
They will usually have a house engine and some base game designs for shit. Like they'd have a kart racer engine, and every time they get a license that seems vageuly suitable they just swap the art assets out and ship it, with little or no development done on the title itself.

>>4088972

So did Duke 1, I bet you still play that.

(Those of you familiar with Goerge Broussard's stance on "Intellectual Property" are likely pissing yourselves with laughter right about now....)

What are some good experimental games?

>>4089749

I don't know about good 'cause I never got around to buying it, but Seaman is really weird and experimental.

>>4089749
Cosmic Smash. It plays like a tennis game but it's designed like Arkanoid.

>>4088870
It seems you and the other anon had a different definition of what shovelware meant. Naturally, that lead to confusion.

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>>4089749
Illbleed

I have no idea how retards can honestly not only misunderstand a simple word like shovelware but also think they have authority to force their opinion on that word onto everyone. Especially since shovelware is, point of fact, a well understood and very simple label that has nothing to do with popularity. There's tons of shovelware that is popular, cell phone games are built on the concept, Flappy Bird was literally the helicopter game + Nintendoesque sprites. Fuck off, retard.

>>4089749

Games that are actually retro? Probably stuff like Tempest, which was based on the lead developer's reoccurring nightmares.

>>4089915
It's what happens when babies are taught that every opinion is equally valid. Except, of course, those you disagree with. kek

I've never seen this much autism spewed over the definition of shovelware on /v/ and you guys try to pretend you're better than them. You should all be ashamed.

>>4091236

Most autistic post in the thread.

>>4088251
Im playing the dreamcast port of cave story, someone had to.

Very close architecture to the arcade boards of the time so tons of ports of games that were coming out during the arcade era's last hurrah.

>>4088251
Because Sega does what ...

Does the PAL Dreamcast run worse than the NTSC version? I'm tempted to burn some games. Stuff like pen pen or am I better off emulating it?

Sega was going all-out because they knew they only had so much time before they had to stop making consoles.

You could say they were throwing shit at a wall to see what sticked but most of those games turned out surprisingly good.

They knew they weren't going to survive even if they were more risk-averse, it was too late after fucking up with the 32x and Saturn. You could say Sega Japan's eclectic work culture was also a factor.

>>4088251
Because Sega was the best anon. The shit they did was top notch because they were pro-creativity and seemingly unafraid of failure. The shit they did as a first party company as far as weird games went also encouraged other third party developers to make some weird shit too.

I <3 Sega

>>4088762
>Nobody ever says "wow, the PS2 got a lot of really weird games, huh?"

are you kidding? There is no other system that has weirder games than the ps2, the thing was a shovelware powerhouse. there were games being made for it that were so niche that the target audience was probably less than one thousand.

>>4093832

I repeat: expressed as a percentage of all titles released? Not really. The PS2 doesn't have an unusual amount of weird games, it just had a lot of games, period.

>>4088251
What an oddly shaped PlayStation.

>>4092726
Almost all games have a PAL60 option which makes them superior to the NTSC versions. For the few games that are sadly 50hz only (Skies of Arcadia comes to mind), you can just burn an Action Replay disc so you can play the American or Japanese release, which of course run in NTSC mode.

If you're burning games favour the PAL releases unless the game doesn't have 60hz mode, then the foreign release should suffice. If the ISO is selfboot, and why wouldn't it be, you won't even need an Action Replay to boot it, that's just for legit foriegn releases.

tl;dr: the Dreamcast is the console where PALfags finally get a win.

>>4088251
Quit judging

>>4093853
>expressed as a percentage of all titles released? Not really.

Like you know every single ps2 game that has ever come out, and then determined the percentage of "weird" games for it only to find it was lower than the dreamcast's percentage.

>>4096091

No, I don't have exact numbers, but you can tell just by taking a random sample of games and see how many count. On the PS2 you're going to have a much higher chance of getting some cheap movie tie-in game than something weird and experimental. On the DC that shit is a significant chunk of its (relatively small) library.

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>>4096098
>cheap movie tie-in games can't be weird

>>4096153

Not when they're cheap. They probably spent some decent bux making that one.

>>4088869
>Mary Kate and Ashley Manage A Restaurant IV
Honestly the series peaked with MKaAMaR3, I loved all the Dragon Quest elements as they try to save Restaurant Island

>>4088263
/thread

>>4092765
This.

I don't know how long I'll be able to survive with only /vr/ games....

>>4088251
Saturn is the same way. PD and Nights are really weird flagship games. Tons of crazy and strange platformer titles and puzzle games too. Even the mediocre stuff is worth playing because of that. Astal and Bug come to mind

>>4101039
When one of the most impressive games on the system is a firefighting simulator, that tells you something about its weirdness right away.

>>4096164
oh god did they, they even brought in the watatachahtahcahouskis to come in and they got all the canon or some goofy shit
they blew so much money making this it was fucking hilarious
having giant ants in one part doesn't make it a weird game btw