Can we all agree that Sonic 2 is the weakest 16-bit entry and

ha fag

Nah

>>4085698
Okay Zephyr.

CD was by far the weakest.
People would understand this if it weren't for "muh Amy and Metal Sonic debut"

Sonic CD was shit. It had some of the most spastic level design I can ever remember and the time travel gimmick was stupid. It was just another game that was hyped up by the internet so much because it was on a console that nobody owned in the Sega CD and also that Sega forgot to re-release it for a long time.

Music was cool though, both the JP and NA versions.

>>4085698

All Sonic CD has is high quality music. Too platformy. Feels like Sonic 1.5.

Sonic 2 has catchy, memorable music, superior level design, superior sprite work and Super fucking Sonic.

Top Tier:
Sonic 1

High Tier:
Sonic CD

Mid Tier:
Sonic & Knuckles

Low Tier:
Sonic 3

Rubbish Tier:
Sonic 2

I don't get these hipsters who want 2D Sonic to be like CD.

CD was a curious novelty but, fuck, you would get sick of CD-type Sonic games quickly than competently produced linear style Sonic games.

Sonic 2 is amazing. A competent evolution of the first game that's accessible and challenging.

>>4085838

And the bonus levels are unplayable.

>>4085698
Can we all agree that anykid who starts a thread with any /v/ tier shit like this should be permabanned?

>>4085698
It's not the weakest one, but it's not the best either. I think the people who think it's the best somehow missed 3&K, because it's just flatly superior.

CD is confounding in a sort of fun way, but it's not a fluid game, which is what Sonic lives or dies on.

>>4085850
I think most people never even played CD, or played like a fraction of it, but they like the aesthetic. I wouldn't mind having more of that. Trying to mold the time-travel ability into Sonic mechanics was a mistake, though. Like darting back and forth between time periods for a dynamic experience could have made for (one) cool game, but probably not the way they did it.

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>>4085698
after playing most of the 3D sonic games, every 2D sonic looks to me amazing.
everytime my friends put shit on sonic 2 i tell them "if you think 2 is shit, you didnt play 4...."

>>4085698
The first half of sonic 2 is great. The last couple of stages were shit.

>>4085698
absolutely agree, Sonic 2 was a major disappointment and still is the shit stain of the MD series

>>4085698
go back and play sonic 1 right now and realize how much of a fucking retard you are.

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Were I come from we call this "bait".

>>4085838
Hyped by the internet? What

>>4086114
It's true, most people only found out about it through emulators and the old win95 pc port.

>>4085937
I think sonic 2 ends on a more tedious note so it seems challenging, or longer. Those stages aren't fun but the final boss is definitely the best in the series.

>>4086115
I thought Sega CD did ok sales? Guess not

Is this bad taste general?

Sonic 2 was arguably one of the best entries in the series.a proper sequel that improved in every front possible

>>4085838
>Sega forgot to re-release it for a long time.
Just 3 years, Sonic CD came out on PC in 1996.

This is getting old real fast.

>>4085847

Dullard's tier list.

Correct list in the exact opposite.

>>4085698
sonic cd=> sonic 1: the lost levels

>>4085698
No, Sonic 2 is the best game in the series and CD is awful.

>>4086175
I wouldn't put Sonic 1 last, though.

>>4085851

Nobody can dispute this. FUCK the bonus levels.

>>4085698
2>CD

OP is fag imcarnate

>>4085698
>le only make the first 4 levels good and everything else shit

I would have to disagree, I still enjoy 2 and think it deserves to be part of the series. Casino Night, Hill Top, Mystic Cave, Sandopolis, all good levels. Except the last one.

People shit on CD simply because you have to actually think to figure out the level structures, unlike 2, which is the epitome of hold-right-to-win design.

>>4085698
2 is my favorite actually, slightly above 3&K.

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>>4085698
Sonic 2 had by far the worst enemies in the series. Little asswipes that shot tiny bullets you could barely see.
And this fucker. You don't get past him, you run away until the scythes drop off the screen

So when did it become cool to hate on 2?

>>4086989
There's this cool place where everyone loves sonic 2 called reddit.

>>4086996
I too enjoy hating things. It makes me feel special.

>>4087002
I secretly love things but pretend to hate them on 4chan to generate hurt butt

>>4086983
Honestly, Metropolis is even more annoying than Wacky Workbench, and that's a tough accomplishment.

>>4087007
Wacky workbench 1 is the only bad one. I did time trials when I was bored and that was by far the least consistent stage

>>4087004
You're making this a better place day by day anon. Please continue.

Sonic CD is one of the worst platformers I have ever played

>>4087091
Why? Because it punishes holding right to win instead of rewarding it?

>>4087097

because it has a terrible level design that punishes any first time palyer, requires almost autistic levels of memorization for signpost placement and runway lcoation, often punishes the player for trying to even time travel by suddenly having runway end with a rock or wlal in the way, has shitty bosses, terrible special stages, and a time limit that you're racing against despite the goal being exploring the entire level

not to mention a pinball boss that somehow controls even worse then sonic spinball

>>4087091
Sonic CD gets better the more you replay it imo

>>4085698

youre high if you dont think 1 is the worst relative to the other 2D classics

CD is probably my favorite, 3K could take its spot though if you caught me debating it drunk

>>4087102
>muh first time
you were supposed to beat games multiple times in the past. Underage detected.

>>4087113

I played sonic 2 religiously as a kid. Having to play the game multiple times to even get a hang of what should be simple level design is not a strong point for a game

>>4087114
>damn I was dying all the time in contra, do they expect me to play this multiple times in order to memorize it? terrible game
>>>/v/

https://youtu.be/A1eweeRRZ9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw

>>4087151
>If you disagree you can call the cops!

>>4087151
He's got a point you know, Sonic 1 was a terrible game.
You go into the comments section and it's only autists with furry avatars throwing a hissy fit over some dude's opinions.

>>4087162
i'm tired of explaining why sonic is a good game. justify why it's a bad game. give me 3 fucking justifications other than "muh nostalgia".

>>4087162
i'm also tired of kinkshaming and calling everything you don't like autistic.

I'll tell you a story.

Once upon a time, I got up and saw a Sanic 2 thread. Now, I loved Sonic as a kid because he was more novel than Mario. By the time I was 10 or so, Mario had gotten kinda old fashioned, and I wanted something different. Well, Sega's marketing worked, and I ate up Genesis and Sonic right away.

But it didn't last long. After a while, I had to admit playing Sonic 2 was more frustrating than fun. The more I got into it, the more I was putting UP with the game rather than enjoying it. Whereas with Mario 3, I tended to enjoy the overall experience, even if the style wasn't edgy enough for me. I suppose I found a happy medium when I discovered Mega Man X games.

As an adult, if I analyze the Sonic games in terms of what I know about how the mind works and how neurology works (not much; I'm not a doctor, I'm just casually interested in the subject so I can make more money and be happier), the games simply don't hold up. I defy any current Sonic fan to explain how Sonic is really a good game without relying on nostalgia or sales figures or old ratings. Yes, you can still evaluate a game without those things.

>What are the rules of the game, and does the game stick to its rules?
Spoiler: Sky Chase breaks the rules, and the special stages have nothing to do with the core gameplay.
>Does it have a sense of space?
>Does it surprise you?
Spoiler: No it doesn't.
>Can you set up before the challenge?
>Do you have meaningful options?
Yes, you have branching paths, but is there any reason to take them?

>>4087162
>Sonic 1 was a terrible game.
Nah, it was a good platformer with nice physics.

Sonic 2-style spindash and the shields in 3 were a mistake, though.

>>4087189
>Sonic 2-style spindash and the shields in 3 were a mistake, though.
Explain.

>>4087195
IT RUINED MUH MOMENTUM BUILDING

>>4087179
>Yes, you have branching paths, but is there any reason to take them?
Replayability. Same thing with Ducktales and Kid Chameleon (Among others.) It's common in games without saves or passwords.

>>4087205
>The drop dash in Mania was made to eliminate pointless momentum building

>Can we all agree that Sonic 2 is the weakest 16-bit entry
Yep. Not a bad game by any means but it's definitely the least charming of the four.

>and that CD should've been the real 2 instead with this never existing?
Unless doing that makes CD twice as long, nope.

Imagine if Sonic 2 had another year for development and they had been able to pack in all the levels and crazy ideas they had to scrap for time. Considering how turbulent Sonic 2's development period was, it's amazing it came out so well at all.

sonic 1 gets shit on the most just like how megaman 1 gets shit on the most, because most people are casual plebians who suck at videogames and need things like spindash and e-tanks

>>4087205
The shields help you build momentum if you use them right. Sonic 2 spindash has always been a instant-gratifying piece of shit though, having to balance speed VS offence with Sonic CD's peel-out and spindash is way more interesting.

>>4087230
Sonic 1 is hard now?

>>4087243
To normies, yes.

>>4087243
Sometimes I'll still get a game over in 1. Same can't be said about 2 or 3&K.

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>>4085698
>CD
>good

>>4087205
>>4087224
>>4087235
The spin dash won't get you everywhere, it just makes it so you don't have to waste time backtracking (often up slopes) to gain the necessary momentum to pass simple obstacles like ramps. In order to excel at the game, you still need to learn the levels and use the momentum you gain from slopes and tubes to reach the upper paths.

>>4087179
>Does it have a sense of space?
>Does it surprise you?
>Can you set up before the challenge?
>Do you have meaningful options?

what are these questions
like, how do they relate to a game being good, other than having meaningful options (and even still that one is iffy -- many games that are well designed and enjoyable to play don't really have any choices beyond not fucking up and dying)

>>4086983
Metropolis fucking sucks, but that's probably the only stage in the game with really obnoxious enemies and enemy placement
S2 really, truly does take a downturn after Mystic Cave though. Sky Chase fucking sucks. Oil Ocean is a little obnoxious, but not terrible.

>>4086542
I would. Game's got some good shit (and you can actually speed through Marble 1 and 2 without zips, you don't actually have to wait for the slow blocks, and you don't have to take damage either, GHZ's easy but less zero-effort than the later first zones in the series, Star Light is pretty cool, I kind of like Scrap Brain 1 and 2 a bit, bosses overall are better than in S2), but it's an early release. It's a tad uglier than the rest. The ground running speed cap is kind of obnoxious. CD, with all its faults, has more interesting stage design overall.
Spring Yard has some really nasty bits of design -- not hard in the slightest, just nasty (also, the elevators). Labyrinth is a pain that's feels like swimming through soup with spikes in it, act 3 can fuck off. Marble Zone act 3 can fuck off.

CD's biggest issue is that it needs to cut back the sheer amount of hard stops out of nowhere it has -- but that would have required adjusting how time travel worked.

>>4087243
It's not the easiest of the trilogy. I'd say that'd be S3&K.

>>4087235
It doesn't replace momentum building, you can reach far higher speeds using the terrain than with the spindash. Sonic 2 uses this fact regularly. It keeps the game's pace up.

I personally like CD's spindash, but I don't know anyone else IRL who does.

>>4085841
>Too platformy
Sonic 2 fags everyone

>>4087446
>what are these questions
>like, how do they relate to a game being good, other than having meaningful options (and even still that one is iffy -- many games that are well designed and enjoyable to play don't really have any choices beyond not fucking up and dying)
How do you decide if ANY game is good? Why do games sell? Why do games get popular? How have magazines and websites rated games? They must have some criteria. What is it?

>>4087526
I for one only buy games after I make sure it features enough space.

>>4087565
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense_of_place

Hey, I'm not here to change your opinion, but if a game's environment reacts to your input, odds are the game is more fun.

>>4087179
>Does it surprise you?
>Spoiler: No it doesn't.

The final bosses in Sonic 2? Super Sonic transformation? Sky Chase Zone?

>>4087601
Explain why those are surprising.

Sonic 2 and Sonic CD are my two favorite sonic games, I think they're too halves of a whole and compliment each other well.

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>>4085851
>unplayable
>just timing your jump into those "balloons" and run while avoiding the water or oil shit
>you can even slow Sonic down with tapping the dpad instead of holding
>unplayable

It's like those who actually got stuck on the barrel, not thinking of jumping + pressing down or just move up and down on the dpad. Or those that played Sonic R and never used the triggers to drift and then blame the game because they go against the walls.

>>4086983
With experience and trial and error(yes that old thing), you can time it right and jump over them. In fact you should avoid destroying the slicers, at least in some places, because the more you destroy the more they will appear in other places which they will make you fall hard.
The crabs hit boxes are sure bullshit. Better to jump over them than destroying them.

CDfags are a cancer worse than doombabbies