Does anyone else think super/revenge bars and all the other bloat

SUPER bar is garbage, every super command requires extremely precise and tight timing to come out and that shit only works once per match so it's not only hard to come out but it's also really easy to whiff.

>>3951498

I liked how Alpha 3 handled it with a,v, and x-ism modes even though V is broken as shit.

>>3951508
I played SF4 online on a keyboard and it was extremely easy to execute supers. There were characters I only played because they had a good combo into super into ultra (Gen) which decided the whole match. The majority of the game turns into conserving your bar resources when they are given this much power, which they usually are in later fighters.
I'll concede that Super Turbo was a great game and they weren't that decisive back then, however.

>>3951531
>I played SF4 online on a keyboard and it was extremely easy to execute supers.
Well nigger, of course they are easy to pull off in SF4, we're talking about Super Turbo in here.

>>3951532
Yes we're a bunch of scrubs because we're not devoting our entire existence into autistically mastering combos and frame data, and enjoy the basic mechanics of the genre that would be great if they weren't buried under a mountain of shit.

It's not hard to learn any SF game. Period.

It is true that ST's enduring popularity (and to a lesser extent, Turbo itself) is due to its simplicity and emphasizing how cutthroat and fast the game is, but that has nothing to do with actually learning how to get out of Dhalsim noogie loops.

Trying to use an example of zoning being hard to overcome in SF2, and that nobody from later games knows how to do it right, is fallacy. ST is the worst game to teach someone defense against frame traps, for instance. You can just apply that metric however you want, it means nothing. ST had just as many goddamn scrubs who only knew how to do special moves and sweep.

>>3951498
i hate meter and its part of why i prefer 3d fighting games to 2d ones

but now the 3d ones have meter too...

what was wrong with high damage + short combos

its way easier to get people into fighting games when the basic shit actually does damage

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Why are there retards that insist on posting like
>>3951563
>>3951532
as if their shitpost won't be shoved into their face for a good while until it's deleted for being low quality /v/ermin faggotry? Speak properly you shcizo.

>>3952654
SF2 has RANDOM damage which is the worst of both worlds.

>>3952657
He is right, though, people should really git gud.

>>3952654

Well, it does get extreme when Bison can ToD you at the beginning of the match. Just because it can be answered doesn't mean the gimmick shouldn't exist in the first place.

Also, long combos can do specific things and can encourage creativity. If I have two combos for corner carry instead of a simple game that gives me one combo meant for corner carry, then maybe I want to use one in some matchups and the other in other matchups.

>>3952695
Not quite. Only stun damage is randomized, which is pretty bad, but obviously not nearly as bad as randomized damage.

>>3952704

ST has random damage.

>>3952698
>If I have two combos for corner carry instead of a simple game that gives me one combo meant for corner carry, then maybe I want to use one in some matchups and the other in other matchups.
Too much shit to learn, I'd rather learn one effective combo than take a fucking MBA course in fighting games.

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>>3952697
He could've said it better. I do like the theatrics of supers myself

>>3952706

They also have random special cancel windows, though this is only an issue for a few moves.

>>3952695
The worst of both worlds is when you have two kinds of blocking, three kinds of meter, combos last 45 seconds and yet you can still faceroll the controller and get a fireball to come out

Fighting games have been a mistake for a good long while

But everything is shit in general and getting worse, no need to single out a particular genre of video games, that's just petty

>>3952708

Then go play smash.

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>>3951498
>Does anyone else think super/revenge bars and all the other bloat make fighting games a lot less fun?
No when it is done right.

Super bars are usually a way to add decision making and more options to the game, like deciding on spending part of your bar into a more powerful version of a normal command move are saving it for something else.

Shit like Ultras in SF4 was fucking dumb because they did a lot of damage, most of them had invincibility and you could do 2 or more of them each round. In other games the only problems i have with super is that some are really fucking good while other are extremely fucking bad, like in SF3 third strike or in SF5 where the V-trigger bar can lead to some bullshit or some really useless stuff.

Bars can be used for some really cool stuff like in KOF13 where you can spend one bar to cancel any of your moves into the other and be able to do a level 3 special
in GG Xrd/revelator 1 and 2 you can spend half of your super bar into a cancel that grants you frame advantage to do a even more damaging combo or save yourself from fucking up a bad read, you can also use it to avoid getting chip damage and defending anti airs or risk loosing your entire super bar when trying to do a insta-kill move.
in garou you have 2 special bars and you can choose one section of your life bar(begining, middle, end) to get a power up.

It all depends on how they implement the bar.

>>3952715
Still a better fighting game that SFV.

>>3952698
then that sounds like a problem with bison and not the rest of the game

its like saying fireballs need to be shitty until the end of time because of o.sagat

>>3952717
>hates USF4's revenge meter
>claims KoF13's meter is fine

lol, you build full meter in KoF13 by being hit and that meter goes a lot farther than ultra meter.

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Street Fighter Alpha 1 is the sweet spot between classic 2d SF and the new mechanics with Super bars.

After that the games became a mess with SF3rd Strike being actually not so bad.

>>3952724
Because that meters has multiple purposes, like that evasive roll, push back better version of command moves and the multiple supers everyone can do, you are supposed to get a lot of that because you will be using it all the time, just like in GG where you can meter for fucking walking forward or running.

>>3952754

No you're not supposed to get that much. The arcade version didn't have that much meter build. They casualized it for comeback mechanics in the console release and then updated the arcade release to be like console.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gca2gAUyybA

>get beat up all round
>win literally because you did a hop after being beat up all round

KoF13 is, far and away, the absolute worst when it comes to comeback mechanics in modern fighters. It was made the most scrubby in that respect.

super SFII are not grate game .it like incomplete game make it can run on CPS1notCPS2
The realthing are super SFIIX with full skill supercombo aircombo grate interface Qsound and Akuma

>>3952775

Agreed.

>>3952768
>They casualized it for comeback mechanics in the console release and then updated the arcade release to be like console.
I didn't know about that. That sure as fuck sucks.

I still stand for what i said about the bars though, it all depends on who to implement them.

>>3952768
WTF that infinite combo. Garbage.

>>3952783

To be honest, I'm sorry. I blew my lid remembering KoF13.

I actually like the game overall, but that one aspect...

>>3952787
Yeah, those combos look long as hell.

I also really like USF4 but ultras are really retarded.

>>3952697

Can't stand Shoryuken fags, they live in their own assburger world

Good example, this constantly shifting narrative of which fighters are "top tier". These games have been out for years, how the fuck can Blanka or whoever the fuck be a low tier 10 years ago but be a top tier today? The game didn't change!

>>3952910
Nigger once the meta is set in place it doesn't change much along the years.

>>3952910

Skill level changes all the time.

In hindsight, o.hawk being top tier is obvious. People just learned game mechanics properly.

Lots of times some countries won't play the game the same as everybody else and then they're thunderstruck when someone comes in and starts playing it properly. 3S in America was really, really, really stratified, with everyone obsessing over top or high tier characters and nothing else. Meanwhile in Japan they played almost every character in tournaments. The Japanese acknowledged that some characters were undeniably better, but took the time to learn the entire game instead of just six characters. This meant they could beat the best American players playing the best characters, sometimes with top tier and sometimes without.

Also tier lists actually don't change that much. If someone moves up or down four tiers or something and it isn't a situation like o.hawk, then we're probably talking about decades of meta development. Even then it rarely happens.

>>3952926

In other words, old fags die off, new ones come in, that's like saying Patriots are top tier just because they have Tom Brady right now, but the fundamental mechanics of football never change.

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>>3951498
In KoF at least, I think they're great. Both a nice comeback mechanic and builds tension as the match goes. It adds another level to things when your opponent gets meter and what he can do with his character changes.

Nah, I think having resource management makes fighting games better.

The only people who complain about Supers are casuals who couldn't git gud.

>>3955931
some of the hardest fighting games have no meter though

>>3956068
Yeah, like Virtua Fighter.

>>3956106
well i was thinking tekken

vf has meter, but only for one character.

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>>3953145
this, but I'd to see a fighting game where the meters filled faster and the supers were more varied, faster and less damaging, and the animations wouldn't take so much gameplay time. Also more supers per character for easier surprise