wow, people aren't kidding when they say FCEUX has the best

>>3923625
Decent emulators let you choose a palette anyway, how new are you?

>>3923630
And? The stock palate that FCEUX uses is pretty damn good, ergo, it has pretty good color emulation.

>>3923625
>color emulation

Are you really this retarded, OP, or is this some next-level bait?

FC looks godly via the Wii over Y/B/R.
But I've made Nestopia on PC look like that too. Just some mild menu tweaks mang.

>>3923851
It's not the right words, but it's the right idea.

Since NTSC colorspace doesn't align with the sRGB colorspace, some approximations are needed to make the colors appear consistent.

The most obvious example of this is the skies appearing purple on SMB.
That happens because the color used for the blue falls outside of the sRGB colorspace.

I like both Nestopia and FCEUX, honestly. What I did for Nestopia was manually match the colors to be as close as possible to what my NES was showing on my TV. Didn't take long to fix.

>>3923650
>The stock palate that FCEUX uses is pretty damn good, ergo, it has pretty good color emulation.
And? FCEUX isn't very good at system emulation.

Mesen, Nestopia UE, puNES, and BizHawk are all cycle-accurate.

The sky isn't purple so it's objectively wrong.

I never had a real NES but isn't the Nestopia one the most accurate? From what I've seen of real consoles, it looks like that.

Here's what I mean:
https://youtu.be/87ViRBWz4-E

Am I wrong?

File: 1490617004761[2].jpg (146KB, 1280x558px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924113

That video is taken from a capture card. A capture card is going to make assumptions about NTSC color code. It's not objectively perfect just because it's a capture card. It's just another way to NTSC decoder.

> In conclusion, FirebrandX's methodology for proving what the "true" NTSC colors are is flawed. He took his colors based on what his TV capture card reports to be the color. All capture card come with certain assumptions on how to interpret the color, probably using the SMPTE C standard. There is no guarantee that the captured colors from the card or device will reflect the colors you actually see from a TV screen. I believe his capture card interpreted the colors using SMPTE C colorimetry.

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.ca/2016/10/video-potpourri-ii.html

Plus, run that same signal that gives you a purple sky in a capture card, through to a tv and guess what? More often than not blue skies.

>>3924124
Oh
my
fucking
god

WHO CARES?!

>>3924126

>someone asks a question
>someone answers
>omg who cares?!

>>3924126
>debate about color accuracy
>gives technical argument for why purple skies are wrong
>OH MY GOD WHO CARE

In fairness though,ﺄ>>3924124, dude, you gotta stop copy pasting your argument.

>>3924126
You do.

>>3924126
I do insofar as I need to point out that purple skies are objectively correct.

What >>3924124 can't get through his baby brain is that just because a CRT is old doesn't mean it inherently processes color "differently" or "more accurately" than a more modern CRT. CRTs more often than not come with inaccurate color out of the box and need to be calibrated back to a flat, industry standard color. Who knows how the color in that picture was set. Most people just set it to whatever suits their taste. Which is why it's blue, and, of course, incorrect.

But now we have a new official updated palette from Nintendo themselves.

File: Comparison2.jpg (66KB, 595x318px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924208
Nigga please, they don't know what they're doing.

>>3924216

They know what they're doing. They added the darkening to work as anti-siezure measure. Ninty has been spooked by the Pokemon incident.

>>3924207
No, purple skies are objectively wrong.

Older CRTs were made to conform to the NTSC standard, while late CRTs and modern displays conform to the sRGB standard.

Because sRGB and NTSC have different Gamuts, not all colors are possible in both standards.
The blue color used for the skies is one such color which does not appear in the sRGB gamut.
sRGB can approximate that shade of blue, but most modern diplays don't bother trying to correct it. instead the color value gets truncated, leving it as a purple color.

>>3924298
Your ass must be sore from pulling so much shit out of it

File: NTSC-vs-P22-vs-SMPTEC_clrBg.jpg (103KB, 605x614px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924343
Whatever you say, bucko.

File: Gamut-CIE_sRGB_NTSC.png (77KB, 474x474px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924343

>>3924216

Meant the one on the mini.

>>3924124
There is a reason TV broadcast engineers used to refer to NTSC as "Never Twice Same Colour". There is no such thing as a reliable colour palette across different devices.

>>3924471

Most tvs of that era are gonna produce shades of blue. Yeah, not one color, but most aren't going to do purple.

>>3924471
True, but it's not blue to purple levels of inconsistent.

>>3923625
>>3924096
>>3924124
>>3924131
>>3924298

For the love of Christ stop forcing this stupid fucking meme.

File: Color error.png (47KB, 256x1120px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924505
I'm not.
I'm just trying to stop more stupid misinformation.

>>3924471
I decided to see just how much error you would need to make the blue skies purple, so I did error levels in increments of 10%, where all errors are in favor of making the skies purple.
You need around 30% error before the skies start to turn purple.
NTSC may not be color accurate, 30% error is a stretch.

I remember back in 05 I hunted down an actual TV they used at Nintendo just to set colors.
Not the same exact TV, but the same model / make.

God, I was fucking retarded as a teen.

>>3924517

Well? What were your results? Did you create a palette or not?

>>3924517
What set and how did you know it was what they used?

File: IMG_3864.jpg (18KB, 198x201px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924376
>>3924378
sRGB has nothing to do with consumer televisions.

>>3924524
Are you fucking kidding?

sRGB is THE color standard for all modern displays, be it television or computer monitor.

>>3924515
CRT tube standards, especially for offbrand CRTs were really bad.

I had a GE television that made everything red, no matter how much you tint and colour adjusted it. I had another (a genuine linytron) that had trouble doing red entirely, doing at best a pink. 30% isn't that far off from the low quality shit that flooded the market in the 80s and 90s.

Still, if you are recording, there is no reason for that kind of colour distortion.

>>3924558
Sure, offbrand CRTs can be pretty bad.
Heck, a fair amount of them are made from tubes that failed QC for name brands.

Your red color problem sounds more like a loose wire though.

My bigass trinitron occasionally flashes red, but I think that's a symptom of it browning out (I have it on a surge protector.)

Why have the mods not stopped this autist from spamming this shit daily

>>3924602

It's completely different people, amusingly enough. It's just co-incidental I guess.

>>3924602
what are you talking about

>>3924605

Op went for a double and combined blue/purple sky cancer with emulator wars cancer

>>3924606
I don't understand, are threads like this common in /vr/?

>>3924609
>I don't understand, are threads like this common in /vr/?

Yes. One like this just died.

>>3924518
Nah, this was just my autism.

>>3924520
I found a few old photos from back in the day where they showed Nintendo of Japan's HQ and the developers working on games. From there I interneted and determined the model.
It's been a decade but I'm 90% sure it was a Sony.

>>3924641
I'm pretty sure it would have been a Sharp set because they and Nintendo are and were very close business partners

>>3924089

No they aren't. When you use them, the intensity of your autism causes bits to be randomly flipped here and there in the PC's memory, which will make the emulator hiccup a little bit.

I mean, for other people they might be accurate, yeah.

>>3923625

What palette does virtualnes use?

File: sky.png (604B, 201x197px) Image search: [Google]

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This is $22. Where is the problem?

File: sky_nes_classic_mini.png (633B, 201x197px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3926071
Here it is in the NES classic mini palette.

>>3926071
not lavender enough

>color emulation

God you people need to stop using words you don't understand

File: Señales-de-que-estás-obsesionada-con-tu-perro-10[1].jpg (161KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924096
>>3924207

>>3926373
And this proves what? That the TV was set to some kind of vivid picture setting and not properly calibrated? Good point.

>>3926416
What does looking to the NTSC standard prove if no TVs were calibrated to such standard? Even the super expensive TVs that they developed with at Nintendo had blue skies from the factory defaults.

>>3924530
"sRGB is the standard RGB color space created cooperatively by HP and Microsoft in 1996 for use on monitors, printers and the Internet"

https://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/color-space/ntsc-1953/

In other words, nothing at all to do with consumer TVs, you stupid faggot.

>>3926419
It doesn't change the fact that there is in fact a standard for color and just because the average user was ignorant of that doesn't negate it.

>>3926416

>hundreds of images of SMB exist
>All show blue skies
>"but calibration" is the only reply

File: Archangel-Cory-Super-Mario-Clouds.jpg (446KB, 2000x1186px) Image search: [Google]

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>this thread is ((modern fart))
http://collection.whitney.org/object/20588

File: arcangel-super-mario-clouds.gif (138KB, 256x240px) Image search: [Google]

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this thread belongs in a museum of MODERN FART

>>3926537
>>3926526

Clouds = bushes

File: dose.gif (864B, 256x240px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3927504

>>3926373
Is that a young Milla Jovovich?

There are games that wish they were talked about more than the color choice of SMB's sky.

>/vr/ is this autistic

I love you fuckers.

>>3927584
It is, in fact. She was 12 there.

File: clewd.gif (173B, 32x24px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3927865
It would be rad if mods would add smb1 clouds to the Burichan layout

>>3923625
I cannot tell the difference between these 4.

File: colorblind.png (339KB, 526x524px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3927878
Can you see the message in this image?

>>3927892
doc? i cant see that dose

>>3927894
You're colorblind then.

Though it's a little hard to see (due to the nature of these sort of tests), it's 42.

>>3927897
>>3927894
What I mean is, if you can't see the 42, either your monitor is complete shit, or you can't see the difference between purple and blue (ergo you can't see red). Sorry bud, your dreams of being a fighter pilot will forever evade you.

File: SMBPC10 1.jpg (2MB, 4032x3024px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3924089
they're absolutely not 'cycle accurate.'
>>3924216
that RGB palette, unless it's the playchoice palette is wrong too.

>>3927903
>>3927897
I can see it better now. I just didnt know it was a number. Yes my monitor is complete shit. I really should browse /vr/ on a crt.

>>3924376
What do the numbers on the horizontal and vertical axes mean? And why is it such an arbitrarily curved shape?

>>3923625
Nestopia is far more accurate. If you don't like it's default color palette then choose a different one. It comes with a dozen or so.

>>3927892
It's the answer to life, the universe, and everything. What do I win?

File: imgA6.jpg (24KB, 402x323px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3927981
The big colorful thing represents every color the average human eye can see.
Y is luminance and X is wavelength. (Roughly, it's a bit more nuanced than that.)
It's curved because the cones that compose the human eye don't have a linear response curve, meaning each cone is responsive to a range of frequencies, and that sensitivity isn't linear. See pic related.

Each triangle represents all the colors possible within their respective color space. (the colors inside the triangle)
This is called a gamut.

Most all modern displays (meaning made after 1994) use the sRGB standard, or color standards which are closely related, like SMPTE-C or Rec. 709.
it wasn't until 2015 that displays capable of displaying the wider Rec. 2020 colorspace were manufactured, and even then they only cover 98% of the Rec. 2020 gamut.
Furthermore, Rec, 2020 is relegated to 4k "UHDTV" displays.

There are lots of way to represent color, and not all colors are possible withing all color spaces.
Just a few common examples would be YUV, RGB, CMYK, HSV, and YCbCr.
RGB to CMYK is a pretty common concern, since computer monitors output colors through RGB, but printers use CMYK, so graphic design artists have to take care that the colors they use fall within the CMYK gamut, otherwise the final printed product won't print color accurate to how it was designed.

>>3927897
I found that one hard and I'm not colourlind. I could see the difference between the blue and purple circles but it didn't really seem to look like anything in particular until someone pointed out that it's 42.

Looking at it again it's actually clearer to me as a thumbnail,

>>3928018
>Y is luminance and X is wavelength. (Roughly, it's a bit more nuanced than that.)
It would have to be more nuanced than that because otherwise it's suggesting that green and blue are the same wavelength but different amounts of luminance.

>>3927986
Decent eyesight.

>>3924126
kys

>>3926373
Why are Chihuahuas so based?

>>3927894
>>3927909
>>3928020
You guys are colorblind af. I can see it clear as day and I'm on a 6bpc 144hz TN panel.

It's blue. Nintendo themselves confirmed it with proof.

Even if it was purple, blue still looks better. Purple looks severely uncalibrated

>>3927908
>they're absolutely not 'cycle accurate.'
They absolutely are.

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Nintendo_Entertainment_System_emulators
http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Accuracy

>>3928218
Except it's not, and you're wrong. But it's ok.

>>3928328
>You're wrong, but I won't explain why!
Amazing

>>3928383
>inb4 he goes on a rant about how 5% of seemingly random CRTs at the time were calibrated for purple

>>3928197
>144hz
Dafuq has the refresh rate got to do with a still image? And the eye is the least responsive to colours in the blue-violet area so it stands to reason that it's not going to be as clear as the red-green tests.

I can tell which individual circles are purple and blue, it was just hard to make out the whole figure. think if I was colourblind it would have made itself apparent by now.

File: proofs.jpg (30KB, 500x503px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3928328
where are the proofs?

>>3924530
sRGB isn't. Rec709 is. Rec709 is based on sRGB but isn't the same, gamma is slightly darker.

>>3924515
>You need around 30% error before the skies start to turn purple.

>I was dreamin' when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray
>But when I woke up this mornin', could've sworn it was judgment day
>The sky was all purple, there were people runnin' everywhere
>Tryin' to run from the destruction, you know I didn't even care

>>3929134
True, but that only affects the brightness.

Making a blue color brighter or darker isn't going to make it purple.

Normal person:

>oh this palette produces purple skies and bricks. This must be an error.

Turbo nerd:

>oh this palette produces purple skies and bricks. This must be the only correct answer

>>3928597
>Dafuq has the refresh rate got to do with a still image?
144Hz TN panels are notorious for shit color, even compared to standard TN panels. I think I even remember hearing about 240Hz ones having worse color than the 144Hz ones.

File: Savtool-swatches.png (3KB, 384x120px) Image search: [Google]

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If they intended pure blue, they would have used $21 instead of $22 for the sky color. The color swatch that $22 occupies has a more reddish hue than the first swatch of pure blue.

The PC-10 palette also depicts $22 as a blue with reddish hue, which VS. SMB displayed with.

>>3931446
Still trying to force this meme?

>>3923630
hes obviously an oldfag because he uses xp still

>>3932253
I'm using my almost 13 year old laptop

it has not failed me once

>>3932253
>>3932276
>Emulates
>13 year old Laptop

More of a poorfag then i guess

>>3927892
why the fuck is there a purple dot in the intersection on the 4? reeeeeeeeeee

File: wavebeam-comp.png (813KB, 1280x4859px) Image search: [Google]

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http://wavebeam.blogspot.ca/2017/03/wavebeam-nes-palette.html

>>3932291

Interesting post. Thank you Anon.

>>3932291
>>3932293
Stop shilling your shitty palette samefag

File: 1420767886262.gif (1MB, 300x173px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3932295

Fuck you, shitcock.

>>3927908
Yes they are. Show proof otherwise, and while you are at it show us proof of emulation lag since that will be your next reply.

>>3924131
It is an incorrect meme that if posted enough some people might believe.

>>3932291
>I do not claim that it's accurate in any way to a single CRT or mathematical formula or even Nintendo's intentions

So, just another worthless subjective palette. Not like there weren't a countless number of those already.

Palettes that are programatically generated by decoding algorithms are far more interesting to me, since that's how colors get generated on the real hardware.

For example:

http://drag.wootest.net/misc/palgen.html
http://bisqwit.iki.fi/utils/nespalette.php

>>3932314
>USB has no input lag
this is what emulator babby actually believes

>>3933075
It doesn't if you increase the polling frequency from 125Hz to 1000Hz.

>>3927984
I was just going to say this.

>>3933075
>Not using PS/2

>>3926419
they were at times
early on they tended to actually be calibrated to the original color spec
later on when TVs and cameras had changed there was a new spec made that closely lined up with the average TV at the time, and then TVs largely stuck with that

>>3924131
>ﺄ
hmm

>>3923625
Best palette is Wavebeam I think.

File: tfw too intelligent for blue skies.png (179KB, 1200x969px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3932316
Purple sky is objectively correct though.

>>3933314
>Draws person with overly large brain
>Makes him use a Frontloader instead of an AV Famicom
Nevermind the debate about the sky's color but your logic doesn't make sense.

>>3933519
>av famicom
Maybe big brain guy saved his games from back in the day

>>3933531
If only there was some kind of device that could somehow adapt 72pin NES games to the 60pin famicom pinout...

File: asdfghjk.png (173KB, 1200x969px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3933519
not him, but here you go

File: perfection.jpg (205KB, 1200x969px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3933558
You made it better but now it truly is perfect

File: KSQOzUu.jpg (374KB, 1469x1468px) Image search: [Google]

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What about the colours of pic related? Is this the first official pallete?

What about the SMB3 1-1 sky? Is it blue or is it light teal?

File: 1491921756529.png (453KB, 1370x2162px) Image search: [Google]

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I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as purple, is in fact, persian blue, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, persian plus blue. Purple is not a colour unto itself, but rather a hue common to many colours. Many people incorrectly call any colour warmer than blue but cooler than purple “purple”, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the colour light persian blue is often called “purple”, and many of its users are not aware that it is actually even further from purple than indigo. There really is a purple, and these people are seeing it, but it is just not part of the sky in Super Mario Bros. Purple is the hue: one the three components that makes up a colour along with its brightness and saturation. The hue is an essential part of a colour, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete HSB system.

Are there any old tvs from the 80's that produced purple skies?

>>3934239
That game is limited by the constraints of the GBC though, and I doubt it has equivalents to the full Famicom pallete anyway.

>>3933531
Why not just play using an Everdrive? The NES didn't support expansion audio anyway for some pants on head retarded reason.

>>3936414
anything that wasn't calibrated 'correctly' (correctly is subjective). It's easy to turn it purple if you have your set adjusted poorly.

>>3936642
that's the opposite. Bad calibration or biased decoder will show blue, as demonstrated by using a calibrated video or broadcast monitor.

>>3936674
>plug your nes with mario
>set Tv hue wrong
profit.

So, the SWTG guy re-released his CRT filter on itch.io and I was pretty impressed by it, which has me looking back into emulation

all my old emulators are more or less dead projects, does anyone know of a way to get higan to display in 256x224? or is higan not the way to go? I just want to play some SNES games using SuperCRT (the more interesting one by J Kyle Pittman, not the one by evilduckling used in OpenEmu. woo confusing nomenclature)


here's the standalone app

File: JackDeliciousCRT.webm (3MB, 424x320px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 424x320px

>>3937242
whoops, HERE's the standalone app
https://piratehearts.itch.io/supercrt

and here's what it does in the background
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php

>>3937248
That shader has some pretty crazy high phosphor persistence.

The bloom/blur is also pretty insane.

File: OUTPUT1.webm (1MB, 1088x850px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3937421
I think the most attractive part of it is the granularity of the settings (webm related)

you access them by hitting ESC while you have the projected screen window selected

File: muh scanlines.png (2MB, 1366x768px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1366x768px

As long as we're posting shaders, what do you think of this one I made for fun?

The scan lines are a little heavy, but I'm working on that.

>>3937532
Scanlines seem nice. Are there any shaders that replicate as much as possible how an actual PVM looks for RetroPie?

File: The Legend of Zelda-170420-171112.png (370KB, 1172x896px) Image search: [Google]

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Who even plays with default emulator settings?

>>3927892
It says 42. I feel sorry for you color blind boys.

>>3936674
My PVMs both show blue with a slight reddish tint (as intended), as does my consumer set; your monitors must be broken

>>3937536
Get me some good ref images and I'll try to make one.

>>3937805
That's the thing, I can't seem to find some in depth photos comparing PVM's to filters, or even what makes the PVM image look authentic on a filter.

>>3937818
I just need some good images of a PVM.

Preferably one sharp image of the whole screen head on, and 2 or 3 images that are zoomed in.

File: Untitled.png (388KB, 1660x1048px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3937248
Pretty neat.

>>3937865
Would these videos help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAi8AVj9GV8
https://www.youtube.com/user/phonedork/videos

Phonedork has videos of what is pretty much the best CRT ever made, the Sony BVM20F1U, could be a good reference.

>>3937904
Sure.

I think I'll leave off any shadow mask artifacts, since I only have a 1080p monitor.

File: Screen Shot 2017-04-21 at 10.55.05 PM.png (139KB, 867x643px) Image search: [Google]

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Here's what I have so far for a PVM shader.

It makes the image really dark, so I'm trying to figure out how to combat that.

The shadow mask also looked pretty terrible at 1080p and clashed with the scanlines, so I'm not going to bother with them.

>>3938169
Not too bad. How does it run on Retropie? There's tons of intensive shaders that even a RPI3 can't handle.

File: Akumajou Dracula (Japan)-170421-234753.png (57KB, 1172x960px) Image search: [Google]

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>Use Sony CXA2025AS US conversion matrix to convert the NES YIQ output to RGB
>$05 (color used in Castlvania's level 2 background that people like to compare palettes with) has slight purple tint at 0° hue like with the canonical FCC conversion matrix
>only becomes red when changing hue to -15°

Interesting. Does this mean those "consumer" palettes in emulators are hue shifted?

File: test2.png (4MB, 1024x896px) Image search: [Google]

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>>3938180
I haven't gotten there yet.

I'm just messing with the process in gimp right now.

File: test3.png (4MB, 1024x896px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 1024x896px

Here, this seems better.

Also, I've realized I have no idea how to make a shader for RetroPi.
All the tutorials I found on making .glsl shaders were for vertex shaders, I need to apply this to the frame buffer.

>>3938169
>>3938336
>>3938292

They darken half the screen, then compensate by brightening it.

CRT Royale is the only one to get bright and white levels right. Too many make the screen darker or greyer.

http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/CRT-Royale

>>3924124

I played plenty of Mario on a real CRT and the brown isn't nearly as brown as your pic.

You are also taking a picture using a phone, which isn't going to reproduce the colors 100%, of a 20 yr old TV, which isn't going to reproduce the colors 100%.

IDK which is the best emulator, but that argument is crap.

>>3938340
>They darken half the screen
Obviously. Although for my pattern it's more like 1/3 of the screen

>then compensate by brightening it.
It's a fair bit more nuanced than that.

>>3938340
So yeah, that's pretty similar to the approach I'm taking, although I can't really do the shadow mask or aperture grille effects at only hd, those effects definitely need 4k.

Basically what I'm doing is creating 2 copies of the image and colorizing them to green and red, then giving them a small offset to simulate misaligned beam convergence, and I give the base image a small 1px vertical ripple to simulate small variance in timing.
Then I mask the whole thing with a scanline pattern and apply a small Gaussian blur.


I just need to get the brightness compensation right.
Too much and it gets washed out like >>3938292, or the scanlines start to gain color where the should be black.

>>3938394

https://forums.libretro.com/c/retroarch-additions/retroarch-shaders

That is where shader development is discussed.

Both blue and the purple-tinted blue are technically correct for different given hues. There is no one true NES color output.

>>3923851
I really cant tell

>>3938340
I wish there were shaders for the pi that looked this good. There aren't any that simulate NTSC artifacts or phosphor glow, even separately.

>>3941828
Probably because the Pi just isn't powerful enough.

My laptop has a Nividia 320m, which is roughly 8 times more powerful than the Raspi 3's GPU, and even then, my laptop barely keeps up with more intensive shaders like CRT Royale.

>>3941909
I'd just wish Blargg's NTSC Libraries worked on the Pi. The Wii can handle NTSC filters, and I miss them when I use my Pi instead.

>>3928061
just think, that dog has been dead for years