Things that pissed me off in Final Fantasy VIII 1. What's

21. What happened to Squall's wound he received at the end of disc 1?

22. Why not just prevent Dr. Odine from inventing Junction Machine Ellone?

23. Rinoa sucks. She never belongs with the party at any point and she upstages every single important event unconditionally. Make sure you can trap Edea between the gates? No, let's go apologize to Rinoa instead. What's that? We're losing badly in a battle with Galbadia Garden? People are dying? Hold on, Rinoa slipped and fell. Go save her NOW. What's that? Adel somehow freed herself and got swept away by a horde of monsters that are headed toward Earth? WAIT! Rinoa is STUCK IN OUTER SPACE. GO SAVE HER NOW!

24. "Draw failed".

25. Seifer only starts mentioning "Matron" after Irvine reveals it.

26. Irvine somehow shoots Edea from the front when her back is to him.

27. Assault rifles exist in this universe and prior to Dr. Odine's discoveries only a select few were able to use magic. Taking this into account, the widespread use of melee weapons remains unexplained.

28. What the Hell does a gunblade even do?

at least the OST was ok

OK I'll take 1-5 and someone else can do the rest because I can't be fucked.

1. Because you lose Seed rank if you don't.

2. Because she doesn't have the ability to go back further than the time of the game. Ellone does.

3. You're correct this is fucking stupid.

4. The devs chose a different system. It's not perfect. Get over it.

5. This is even more retarded that the orphanage given the infinite trajectories possible. Someone wanted a cinematic and romantic lost in space bit and this was the get out.

I quit playing after getting to the orphanage...it was too much.

I guess I'm a retard because I thought the orphanage reveal was neat. I hated Rinoa for the first 2/3 of the game but I desperately wanted her to alright by the end. I liked FFVIII, but it was far from perfect.

The junctioning system is fine. Refine cards and don't level up like a madman and you're on easy street. It takes some FAQ or wiki reading to figure it out, but once you get it, it's ez.

>>3891083
>3. The orphanage scene. HAI WE ALL ACTUALLY KNOW EACH OTHER.

Well they explained that too much use of GFs have an effect on your memory which is why everyone but Irvine (The guy that didnt use much GFs until recently) seems to remember their time as orphans.

I remember they touched this on disc 1.

Where is the problem exactly?

>the spacing
yeah, I ain't reading that shit

>>3891083
1. If you watch the cutscenes, the missiles do a loop before coming back to hit the target. They would've destroyed Balamb Garden if not for the tampering.

2. She can't travel through time (only under time decompression anomaly circumstances). She sends her consciousness backwards through time using Junction Machine Ellone, which is what Odine developed based on her powers. The machine can only send her back to Squall's time, where Ellone is alive, so she needs to find her and have her send her as far back as necessary to commence the Time Compression spell.

3. Not coincidental. Cid and Edea know that Squall will determine the future of the world, and they take no chances by not training the other children present at the orphanage. They're all intentionally reunited as their mission commences, orchestrated by Cid.

8. They still feel pain from what would otherwise be mortal wound. The only way to find peace if they get to that point is by passing their powers on.

11. At the end of the game, or several years before the game starts, rather, Squall tells Edea about SeeD, Garden and Ultimecia, which is why Cid and Edea founded Garden under the guise of a mercenary force with funding from NORG. Its real purpose was to combat Ultimecia.

14. It's Adel's space tomb. The interference is gone after she returns to Earth, and so is her ominous message in Timber.

19. Quistis was actually demoted because of point 3. It's also why Selphie was transferred to Balamb, as well as Irvine's role in the assassination.

21. Healed by Edea/Ultimecia. In the timeline, she doesn't know why SeeD is hunting her in the future and spares Squall to interrogate him about it. He doesn't know because Ultimecia's presence and SeeD's objective is only known by Cid and Edea at this time.

27. The Galbadian army uses melee weapons because they were designed to let them use Para-Magic without the use of GFs. Literally the only explanation given.

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>>3891083
There is an armor system.
They're called GFs. You get one, equip it(junction), and it grows in power as you grow, and you can tailor the abilities this armor has to your liking, using magic to boost power as well.

Honestly, it's a fun system when you start looking at it from another POV.
GF aren't merely summons like in other FFs.
They are your armor. They're your materia. They're your magic. It all depends how you utilize them.

Some GF boost HP, or strength, like a suit of armor or gauntlet might in a traditional rpg.
Some GF boost spirit, some boost mag, like a helm or staves might in other rpgs.
Pandemona for example strengthens strength and speed, basically making your character almost a ninja in class. Brothers sorta makes a character into a tank with HP and defense boosts. The brothers GF can therefor be seen as a suit of armor with several abilities you can learn from it. Oh, and you can summon them into battle too. Awesome!

>1. Did Cid create Balamb Garden, did NORG, did Esthar, or is it an ancient Cetra shelter? Make up your mind game.
It's was an ancient structure that Cid repurposed with the monetary aid of NORG.

>7. This game punishes you for leveling up by making the enemies stronger.
I actually think that's neat because because no matter how strong you are there are always going to be random encounter enemies that are challenging

>18. Why is Adel so big? All the other sorceresses have normal proportions.
I always assumed she was a member of a non-human race as there are multiple races in the game

>>3891171

The problem is it's bad story writing.

>>3891192
Nah, apparently FFVIII expects too much of its demographic. 90% of the people don't have the mental capacity or retention necessary to fully understand and appreciate the story, much like yourself.

>>3891192
Explain how.

There is an ingame reason why of that plot point so i dont see the problem.

>>3891083
>I want real magic with magic points. I want real armor and accessories.

That's nice.

No one cares.

>>3891180

This senpai. I don't use a GF's actual summon ability past Elvoret.

I can't answer all of these. It's been so long since I've played.

>1. Missile error ratio
Someone fill me in about this section. Why did the missiles manage to strike at Balamb's coordinates after all? I barely remember this scene.

>3. The orphanage scene. HAI WE ALL ACTUALLY KNOW EACH OTHER.
I thought it was an interesting revelation. I never understood the criticism here. Early into the game, you do get to learn about rumors of GFs being correlated with amnesia, so the game wasn't jumping the shark after all. I think the GF amnesia bit was somewhat buried in the various in-game lore that you accessed through Garden's computer system.

>7. This game punishes you for leveling up by making the enemies stronger.
I don't think that's the intention. At higher levels, enemies utilize new strategies and have new drop and steal lists. Allowing enemies to level up is sometimes the only way to get specific rare items that you'll probably need later in the game.

>8. If a sorceress can't die until she passes on her powers why not just live forever?
Given the way Ultimecia was stumbling about after having her ass kicked, I imagine being a half-dead sorceress is a miserable (and irreversible?) state of existence.

>16. If Ultimecia's powers can only be in one sorceress how come Edea and Adel are both sorceresses at the same time?
They aren't. Ultimecia is beyond Adel's time. Just because Ultimecia is doing some wild things with time travel doesn't mean she and Adel exist concurrently.

>18. Why is Adel so big? All the other sorceresses have normal proportions.
Not all of them. There was that one monstrous sorceress you fought during the time compression sequence. Maybe Adel was similarly warped by the powers she possessed.

>bits about characters acting inconsistently or being brats
I suppose fallibility adds some human depth to the cast.

>>3891213

It's a plot device called "deus ex machina" and Final Fantasy 8 has way too many of them.

>>3891250
>deus ex machina
Except it didnt come out of nowhere as it was properly set up at disc 1.

>>3891083
>7. This game punishes you for leveling up by making the enemies stronger.
This isn't a problem at all. You will always be stronger. Also, enemies with higher levels have new magic, new drops, and new items to steal/mug.

>14. Is it Adel or is it Esthar's satellites that are responsible for the radio interference?
Adel. Broadcasting for someone to free her.
>15. Why not launch Adel's tomb into the Sun?
She'd pass her abilities to another. There must always be a sorceress.
>17. What's the point of Rinoa deactivating Adel's tomb if it was going to fall to Earth anyway with the Lunar Cry?
So Adel could survive the fall and keep the monsters from ripping her apart.

>24. "Draw failed".
raise you magic stat.

>28. What the Hell does a gunblade even do?
Fires a Kinetic or Energy round into the blade at the moment of impact, causing it to vibrate intensely, increasing the cuttingpower. Google ultrasonic knife. This is a real phenomena, but the gunblade is a dumb way to do it.

Timeline of plot point most people seem to miss:
>Squall follows Ultimecia into the time anomaly after the final battle in order to finish her off
>they end up near the orphanage many years before the start of the story
>Squall witnesses a dying Ultimecia pass her powers to Edea
>Squall tells Edea about the threat of the sorceress from the distant future and how she and Cid established SeeD and Garden to eliminate her
>these words are the cause of Ultimecia's eternal time paradox
>Squall returns to the time anomaly
>Edea recognizes him as the child at the orphanage and decide to train every single child there in the art of Para-Magic, I.E, Squall, Quistis, Zell, Selphie, Irvine and Seifer
>Cid and Edea seek funding from NORG to establish Garden under the pretense that it's a for-profit mercenary organization solely controlled by NORG
>fast forward to the start of the game, where the children at the orphanage have grown up with strict military and Para-Magic training; Guardian Forces taking a toll on their long-term memories
>Selphie is transferred to Balamb, Quistis is due for demotion to join Squall's squad, and Irvine is set to reunite with the group for the upcoming assassination planned by Cid
>all but Seifer pass the SeeD exam
>Squall and co are sent towards the general direction of Galbadia Garden and Deling City
>Cid gives the order to "assist" Galbadia Garden with the assassination of Edea
>Irvine, not having used GFs up until recently, hasn't lost his memories and assumes the party has forgotten him
>he recognizes the sorceress as Matron Edea and can't take the shot despite his training
>fast forward, Squall and co finally help each other piece together memories of their time at the orphanage

Memory loss is flat out explained on Squall's computer 5 minutes into the game, and countless NPCs allude to it.

>>3891282
>This isn't a problem at all. You will always be stronger. Also, enemies with higher levels have new magic, new drops, and new items to steal/mug.
>>3891243
>I don't think that's the intention. At higher levels, enemies utilize new strategies and have new drop and steal lists. Allowing enemies to level up is sometimes the only way to get specific rare items that you'll probably need later in the game
Game even goes as far as give you a level up or level down ability in case you want something out of the low level enemies.

>>3891283
>>he recognizes the sorceress as Matron Edea and can't take the shot despite his training
I really missed this, gives the whole scene a new context.

>most people seem to miss
I unironically think that people forgot about it and then adopted the hate from Spoony.

>>3891243

I think the intention with the level up system was to let you unlock better magic and better goodies to mug or drop from enemies the higher-level you were. That way, the spells you could drawn and items you could get would scale with where you were in the game. As a bonus, it would encourage you to go back to earlier areas to draw more powerful spells from enemies that previously carried crap spells and make the challenge fairly consistent throughout the game.

The card system completely throws that out of the window, but, based on how the system is designed, I think that was done on purpose as a way to bypass the level system for smarter players.

>>3891296
>I unironically think that people forgot about it and then adopted the hate from Spoony.
That's definitely it. FF8 requires a high level of retention or several playthroughs to fully grasp the story. There's little to none repeated exposition. It's probably one of the most misinterpreted and unjustly ridiculed stories in gaming.

I finally completed FF8 last year after having started it several times since release. One of the things that surprised me was that Seifer has a happy ending and has moved on from hating SeeD.

>>3891272
Not really, the terminal that explains it is very out of the way and very missable.

>>3891283
>>all but Seifer pass the SeeD exam
Is it possible that the exam was completely rigged?

>>3891309
I will die on this hill; Final Fantasy 8 had a good story that was told very poorly.

>>3891319
Didnt Cid or Quistis mention it at some point during the game?

>>3891332
Quistis asks Squall if he remembers how to use his gunblade, but that comes off more as leaning on the fourth wall for tutorial purposes.

If there is one game that needs a rewrite, it's FF8. More explanation and less subtlety would work wonders on it.

>>3891324
It's heavily implied that Cid and Edea are Seifer's parents and that the reason he isn't allowed to graduate despite being a master swordsman and top tier combatant is because the orphanage group is one day going to (attempt to) assassinate Edea, and Cid won't let him take part in killing his own mother. It's actually a really, really big risk to take, considering he could've been one of the major reasons the orphanage group defeat Ultimecia. There's no other way to rationalize his exclusion from the group.

>>3891272
They literally tell you to take a look at the terminal while you're in the clasroom it's in

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>>3891171
>Well they explained that too much use of GFs have an effect on your memory which is why everyone but Irvine (The guy that didnt use much GFs until recently) seems to remember their time as orphans.

It seems really selective. There's what 5 people who forgot about that shit so in order for them all to loose the same memory it would have to wipe out huge chunks of it and honestly no one really seemed to show any indication that they had forgotten their entire childhood, which is honestly a big deal.

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Another thing to consider is that they didn't start using GF's immediately. So there should be a huge span of time at Garden where they did in fact know each other and their relationships suddenly changing because they forgot each other out of the blue would be extremely visible to any outsiders. Hell for as popular as Quistis is at the school you'd think it would be more common knowledge that she was friends with the bulk of the party.

>>3891339
>heavily implied that Cid and Edea are Seifer's parents
Never heard that before.

>>3891348
They weren't at the orphanage long enough for it to leave a meaningful impression. The oldest of them was 6 years old before they were either adopted or sent to one of the various gardens. If they hadn't already forgotten each other after 5 years before para-magic training, the sure as shit would after 7 years of constant use. It would be a different story if Irvine had been at Balamb. Either way, it doesn't actually affect the story. At worst, Irvine wouldn't be the only one to hesitate during the assassination after identifying the sorceress as their matron. It's otherwise inconsequential.

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>>3891197
>>3891309
>this is what FF8 fags believe

>>3891358
Never directly stated and only supported by the fact that all parents in the game have their children's Triple Triad cards. It's the only logical conclusion based on the information stated in the various summaries in the thread. The entire purpose of SeeD/Garden was to specifically train the children at the orphanage to combat the future sorceress, and Seifer is the only one intentionally excluded from the unit despite being at least on-par with Squall. Why would Cid do this? Because having his son take part in his mother's murder is too much to bear, even if it potentially puts the future of the world at risk.

>>3891369
>They weren't at the orphanage long enough for it to leave a meaningful impression.

Being sent to an orphanage AT ALL is going to leave a meaningful impression. This isn't day camp it's "my parents are dead and no one else will have me" that's gonna stick.

>>3891391
Most if not all of them were infants when they arrived at the orphanage, and the only ones who weren't adopted were Squall and Seifer. Edea left with Ellone, causing Squall lasting mental scars that gradually heal over the course of the game. Edea's departure is presumably also what gave Seifer a mommy savior complex after watching the movie Laguna starred in.

The rest lived happily enough until training began. I don't remember jack shit from that age, and I haven't had magical entities gnawing away at my memory for 10+ years.

>>3891421
>and I haven't had magical entities gnawing away at my memory for 10+ years.

They didn't hook up to GF's as soon as they went to the garden. When the game starts is literally the first time you use them.

And you being a retard who can't remember your childhood doesn't make it the norm. It makes you an idiot.

>>3891436
Don't pretend you have any recollection of any event from that period, either. You know what people tell you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia
Population wide.

>>3891445

Yes I did because I did more in my life than sit around playing video games all day.

>>3891436
>They didn't hook up to GF's as soon as they went to the garden
Nigga, they started using GFs around the age of 10. Do you really think they would be sent on insanely dangerous field exams with zero knowledge or experience with GFs, or even allowed into the training facilities without junctioning?
>>3891446
Nice, cretins immediately resorting to ad hominem. This board is 18+. That does explain why you still remember your early childhood. Refer to Global rule 2 and leave.

>>3891332

Cid tells Squall not to believe the lies about memory loss and GF use when he leaves for Timber.

>>3891436

I'm pretty sure it's implied that they had used GFs on the field before. The game doesn't pick up at the very beginning of the characters' military education. They've been living in Gardens since they were adolescents.

>>3891624
It's not just implied. The very basics of SeeD training is to master para-magic, i.e, being able to cast magic as naturally as a sorceress through junction with a guardian force. Literally the core of their training. The start of the game is just leading up to their final exams and graduation. That guy's an idiot.

>>3891083
Rinoa in general pissed me the fuck off, such an annoying character. Quistis is hot but full of bad decisions.

>>3891651
The only good character is Edea, which is pretty sad. A lot of people rave about Laguna but I found him dumb. I get that he was a comic relief character but was far too unrealistic for me (clumsiest and most childish soldier ever yet somehow became president of the most advanced nation on earth). The 6 playable characters are all utter shite. Quistis wins by virtue of being the least annoying

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>>3891651
>Quistis is hot but full of bad decisions

Quistis is pretty underrated. You can obtain a lot of her Limit Break skills early on, and skills like Degenerator and Mighty Guard are incredibly overpowered. She doesn't have all that much use during the final stretch of the game, but she sure makes low-level runs a lot easier.

>>3891662
>I get that he was a comic relief character but was far too unrealistic for me (clumsiest and most childish soldier ever yet somehow became president of the most advanced nation on earth).

Don't forget that time he threatened to tickle his fatally wounded comrades before throwing them off a cliff, which they somehow survived.

>>3891708
>Don't forget that time he threatened to tickle his fatally wounded comrades before throwing them off a cliff, which they somehow survived.

It was either that or be gunned down. They had a better chance of surviving the plunge.

>>3891338
It was Cid apparently.

>>3891562
Thanks anon i was sure Cid mentioned this, it has been years since i played 8.

>technobabble
>because ultimecia's time travel power isn't as strong as ellone's
>the amnesia thing is alluded to from the very first classroom scene of the game
>play another ff then
>the rags were used to transport adel, where rinoa was at, its not too farfetched that it'd be nearby
>yes, and?
>you're only punished if you don't utilize the junction system properly
>i'm not even sure what you're getting at here
>i don't see how this is any different from other games' limit breaks
>idk
>cid and edea made garden with norg funding, cetra aren't even the same game dumbass
>game's gotta give you away to get around somehow
>why waste your time writing this awful post?
>i don't remember, adel i think because if you look at the timber jumbotron there's some subliminal message
>because adel is cryogenically frozen or some shit, not much use to ultimecia in that condition
>why not just ride the eagles into mordor?
>idk
>ultemica has wings or someshit coming out of her head, i'd hardly call that normal, nothing wrong with adel being buff
>its almost as if human characters have human flaws
>presumably to excavate lunatic pandora, after that i suppose its not really relevant anymore
>healed by galbadian doctors or magic presumably
>because the whole point of the dream sequences is to show that you can't change the past but you can learn from it
>muh contract
>junction something to your magic stat dumbass
>idk
>just like every other ff game in a modern setting?
>vibrates

I lost my disc 1, no idea how, I've never lost a disc based game before.
Should I just get a new copy and sell discs 2-4 to someone who lost those?

>>3891453
>Nigga, they started using GFs around the age of 10.

If that was at all true then we wouldn't need a tutorial explanation.

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the biggest crime FF8 commits is constantly reminding us of a much cooler story we could be playing.

I know Japan loves their angsty teens but honestly Id have much rather played as the the hapless romantic soldier turned hero turned president and his bros.

Also there's actually kind of a linear narrative that makes sense and is easy to follow.

>>3892053
>I'm a soldier
>Now I'm a dad
>Now I'm a movie star
>Now I'm the president

What the fuck?

>>3891972
>cid and edea made garden with norg funding, cetra aren't even the same game dumbass

But Centra are, and the gardens were made from Centra ruins. Dumbass.

>>3892090

I didn't say there weren't gaps. But the life and times of Laguna Loire would still be a far more compelling story than...weird sorceress from the future?

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>>3891171
>>3891243
>>3891283
There's something I want people to understand about writing fiction in good taste—you can't just do whatever plot twists and reveals you want because of the simple fact that you alluded to it. If your favorite TV show character gets randomly hit by a car in the middle of his story arc and dies, and they'd previously shown him jaywalking recklessly one time, is that really good storytelling?

"GFs cause memory loss" offers a scientific explanation for why Squall and co. don't remember each other. This is not a problem in and of itself, it's that it doesn't have any bearing on anything else in the game. It's a way to achieve a plot goal with a minimum amount of effort, and if you want to demonstrate how replaceable this thread is, just replace "GF" with any other noun in the game.

"A Triple Triad card is an independent energy force. By combining it with para-magic, it is possible to control tremendous energy. Memory loss is a possible side effect, but this has not been proven as of yet."

With the tiniest amount of legwork, you could do this with the most mundane element in the game. Just say Triple Triad cards were sent down from some God-like being and you're good.

Much of FF8's story problems were likely due to it being rushed out.
After FF7's MASSIVE take in sales, the heads at Square likely got a bit greedy and rushed release out a bit, causing the story to suffer a bit.

I'll tell what was FF8's "problem".

Its problem was that it took for granted that its playerbase would be intelligent, and it was wrong on that, only about half was and still is based on the shitstorm this game has been causing since release.

The way both the story and gameplay system of FF8 work, are based on the principle that the player will be interested and intelligent enough to look around, experiment, put two and two together and think to understand the result.

Sadly, half of the player base isn't capable to do that, and why would they be considering every previous FF game had both story AND gameplay unroll itself with no need for the player to think.

I'm not saying FF8 is the epitome of "deep" and "intelligent", but it definitely was a step into the right direction.
Its 'failure' with half of the playerbase is the reason why Square went back to mouthfeeding storytelling, gameplay system that doesn't you to think, and even after that, litteral corridor and EVEN the game playing themselves.

Be aware of this, you don't like FF8, you're responsible for the downfall of the series.

>>3892232
>Be aware of this, you don't like FF8, you're responsible for the downfall of the series
Is NESfag the worst poster on /vr/?

>>3892361
I should have specified, "if you don't like it because you fail to understand the gameplay and story and what they were aiming at".

If you don't like for other reasons, like not liking the art style or the characters, that's something else entirely.

>>3892232
What about the incredibly annoying cast and forced love story between two leads with absolutely no chemistry, or am I pleb for not liking that?

>>3892361
Yes. He truly is a moron.

And I like FF8.

>>3892135
>you can't just do whatever plot twists and reveals you want because of the simple fact that you alluded to it.
As >>3891283 explains, it's tied into the core of the story itself. Just because you don't have the mental capacity to retain information for the duration of the game doesn't make it a flaw.

>>3891083
Alright, let's kick some ass.

>missile error ratio
I know I'd want to up the chances of failure. Not to mention, look at Trabia, some of those missiles went crazy, one hit a mountain pass, one didn't even explode despite being a direct hit.

>Ultimecia hellbent on Ellone
Adel was also hellbent on Ellone. Ellone has a unique ability to send consciousness back in time, an ability Dr. Odine attempted to recreate, but wasn't nearly as good as Ellone's natural ability. Ultimecia directly uses the Junction Machine Ellone that Odine made to attempt her time compression scheme.

>Orphanage
This has a lot more meaning than you can suck up at face value.

>Draw/Junction
I much prefer this system than Materia, or learning skills from equipment. And you do get to upgrade your weapon as you go through the game.

>Ragnarok
There were three ships that got left in space after the transportation of Adel's Tomb, they stumbled across one of them while in the same orbit.

>Rinoa is a spoiled brat
More news at 11.

>Game punishes you for levelling up
It's called scaling.

>Sorceress can't die until powers pass
It's never touched on what happens if a Sorceress is unable to transfer her powers, we assume she'd be a weak/empty vessel until a female was in range to receive them.

>Limit breaks
You still have to be in a critical health condition, or under the effects of a spell that isn't always easy to obtain, unlike in other Final Fantasy games where you have the benefit of holding on to your Limit, and could use it at 100% health.

>SeeD
Fuck yoU

>Garden
Centra created mobile war shelters, and Cid had the idea to turn them into schools for his mercany sorceress killing club, which utilized funding from NORG.

>Garden learns to fly
That was their original design from Centra

>Tonberry GF
It's a hidden side GF in a side area. They give 1 experience point for killing them, of course they have to be worth something greater than that.

>Satellite
Adel is responsible for the

>>3892538
>>3891083

>Launch Adel into the sun
She was preserved as to not let her powers transfer to Ellone.

>Ultimecia's powers
Her powers were through the Junction Machine Ellone for the mind possession, they're still sorceresses on their own.

>Rinoa deactivating Adel's Tomb
It seems like it takes time for her to reanimate. From what I remember happening in the scenario, Rinoa releases Adel, Pandora gets in position, Lunar Cry is triggered, Adel reaches Pandora, Space team wraps up and lands, party reunion, and then the party has to run some errands, break into Pandora, clear Pandora, and ultimately reach Adel just as she's getting her feet under her.

>Adel's Size
Ultimecia was huge in her final forms.

>Quistis was terrible at task management
She's a woman.

>Galbadia Garden after disc 2
They were battling near the ocean, perhaps it sank?

>Squall's wound end of Disc 1
He's taken to a prison, generally they have some sort of medical staff ready, not to mention magic and shit.

>stop Odine
he's a research driven scientist. He's going to worm his way out of any scenario he's in just to insure he can continue his work. He was under Adel's rule when he was coerced by Laguna to use his abilities to entrap the ruler of Esthar.

>Rinoa is an outsider and a major burden to the crew
Love is a crazy thing, but she was a major driving force in the plot at the beginning. Setting in motion SeeD's attempt to overthrow Galbadia, causing Seifer to become the sorceresses knight.

>Draw Failed
Did you try it again?

>Seifer mentions Matron after Irvine
Seifer left Balamb garden, he stopped using the memory loss inducing Guardian Forces, it's natural he'd get his memory back.

>Irvine shoots
Yadda yadda

>Firearms exist
And you saw how well they did against a sorceress. Barret in FF7 has a fucking gun arm, and the main character still uses a butchers cleaver

>Gunblade
Seems like if you pull the trigger as you're striking, the blade will trigger and explosion at point blank.

>>3891319
There's a garden worker that tells you not to listen to the lies about GFs and there's also the Fisherman's Horizon scene where Squall doesn't remember the worker he just met.

>>3892093
I'm sure next you'll say that you were only pretending to be retarded when you misspelled it in the op, right?

>>3891083
cute. just discovered spoony?

>>3892616
also the garden workers are shown as being suspicious, including by Cid himself. Also several other instances where members of the party don't remember things, like Squall not remembering the name of the guy who passed the Seed test with them.

also the fact that Galbadia garden doesn't use GFs.

Besides, the terminal isn't "out of the way and missable". You HAVE to use it at the start of the game to get your two first GFs.

Then, along the game, different messages and info are added to it such as Selphie's journal, who mentions her doubts about GFs as well.

>>3892538
>missile ratio

Pretty much it's part of the things which impact your salary depending on how well you do.

>>3892806
I'm pretty sure if you just proceed to the main gate, Quistis will grant you the GF's if you missed talking to your terminal.

But, there's so much character building information in the terminal as you go through the game, you'd have to literally have zero interest in the game to not be checking it after your different progressions with the Garden.

>>3892815
>But, there's so much character building information in the terminal as you go through the game, you'd have to literally have zero interest in the game to not be checking it after your different progressions with the Garden.

Exactly. And that's true for everything about the story but also the gameplay. A lot of people complaining about FF8 pretty much complain because they didn't even try.

>>3891283

>Cid gives the order to "assist" Galbadia Garden with the assassination of Edea

But didn't NORG say that Galbadia Garden tricked Squall and friends into believing that Balamb supported the assassination?

Or was that made up by NORG because Cid didn't keep him in the loop so that he wouldn't blow a gasket at the possibility of Galbadia turning against the gardens?

>>3892232
Not liking 9 (and then 12) was the reason for the series' downfall. Sure, people talked some shit about 8 at different points in time, but it sold fine.

>>3892479
Right, but it's arbitrary. To hold that sequence of events together, they needed the characters to forget that they know each other for a set period of time. The reason for that is literally "magic" (a supernatural force occupies and feeds off the same brain space as your memories). Explaining it to the player doesn't make it cohere, it just makes it known.

>>3892820
Level scaling is a pretty big problem if you ask me, and I can't believe they left it as it is.

Making levelling up a bad thing is the most counter intuitive thing you can do in an RPG in the worst possible way.
That's what I hate the most about the game, otherwise I think it's pretty good.

>>3893020
Half of FF7's story is based on the protagonist genuinely thinking he's someone else, while his best friend / girl friend knows the truth but doesn't contradict him or even try to help.

Somehow that's never a problem but FF8 is.

I'll be honest here, I don't want to feed the trolls, but I feel like if you really knew FF8 and its story the one thing you'd be complaining about is "the power of love" which is the only thing which saves them in the end. That's the only arguable plot point of the game as far as I'm concerned.

>>3892949
The assassination was ordered by Cid and supported by Martine and Caraway. NORG knew that Martine and Caraway wanted Edea to be eliminated for the sake of their nation, but he didn't know of Cid or Balamb's involvement, which is why he freaks the fuck out and is trying to capture and send Cid to Edea to avoid her wrath.

Despite being a greedy, power hungry asshole, NORG is a victim and collateral damage to Cid and Edea's noble goal.

>>3893069
Cloud's memory loss is also stupid, but the difference there is that it doesn't affect the fabric of the overall plot as much. It matters in regard to the scenes that directly deal with his memories, but not in conjunction with anything else that happens.

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>>3893069

FF7 does address this though. Only one in the party knows Cloud so there's no reason for them to doubt his word and the one person who does know him, Tifa, does realize that something is amiss in his story.

It's not the cleanest twist but it was foreshadowed and it does make sense and it is actually treated like a huge character changing ideal compared to FF8's "Oh."

>>3893060
Leveling is not a bad thing. As the monsters level, they reward more AP and offer better magic to draw. Did you not even use the GF and junctioning systems? Next time watch a movie instead.

>>3893069
It's not a problem because unlike FF8 it's not a lazy excuse for giving everyone the same backstory.

>>3893341
>and offer better magic to draw

which would be something if

A) Draw wasn't a pain in the ass and inferior to card modding

and

B) Magic was worth shit. You can just stock a pile of 99 lvl1 spells on your party and still annihilate end game enemies

>>3892090
Worked for Ronald Reagan

>>3893341
>>3893060
There is MUCH MUCH more pros to lvling up than that. People who think lvling up "punishes you" just didn't get a grasp of the entire system and remained on the surface of things.

Lvling up also
>improves your base stats, even more so when you acquire the stat boosts abilities
>increases your chance of drawing 9 magic per turn and to never fail drawing
>is often required to learn some limit breaks
>makes enemies drop more and BETTER items, which in turn you can turn into more and better magics. Even in Disc1 you can very quickly get much better magics with item drops than drawing if you lvl up a little. Item drops are like the number 1 easier and most efficient way to get magic but you're never going to get anything worthwhile if you don't lvl up a little.
>also makes your GF stronger, lvls them up too, teaches them and you new abilities and new stats to junction magic too.

And I'm sure I'm forgetting some in my list.

Even past lvl50, when there is no better item drops or magic to get from lvl ups, it's still worth it to do so because of all the stat boosts you get at the end game.

Besides, unless you go for some heavy exploits, which are that, unintended exploits which you would NEVER find on your own unless you already knew everything I just said and more, you're going to get almost no AP, meaning you're never going to even start playing the game really and are going to miss everytthing the game has to offer while remaining using only the very basic things.

>>3894120
>>improves your base stats, even more so when you acquire the stat boosts abilities

marginally and you can still pretty easily beat most bosses just by power stacking spells to stats.

>>increases your chance of drawing 9 magic per turn and to never fail drawing

Which again would be useful if drawing didn't suck and card modding wasn't better.

>is often required to learn some limit breaks

Don't remember that one but okay yeah. sure. Ill give you that one if so.

>>makes enemies drop more and BETTER items, which in turn you can turn into more and better magics

Which Ill grant you is nice but also sort of defeats the point of draw further

Honestly the major issue is for any benefits leveling could have it's still ultimately useless when the game is so piss easy and even playing normally doesn't present a whole lot of challenge.

You can break the game wide open if you know what you're doing but there's very little reason to actually do so.

>>3894156
Cards are nice but it takes a lot of time to get enough strong magics out of them. Unless you turn rare, unique, cards.

Anyway what you're basically saying is that the game's easy difficulty defeats the purpose of the system. This can be said of pretty much of most jRPG ever, at least all Square titles.

>>3894158

yeah but not as many really expect as much effort on the players side of things.

I mean chrono tigger ain't hard but the general flow of that is kill enemies get levels learn spells at certain points. BING BANG BOOM. nice and easy. I don't have to do shit I wasn't already doing.

8 expects you to draw, or convert, or stock, or raise AP or junction, or play card games. There's a lot to do that we really don't have too.

>>3894161
So it's the game's fault if you aren't interested in diving into a game system when playing an RPG?

Besides, the game did take into account these kinds of players. There is the "automatic" junction system if you really don't care.

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>>3894165
>So it's the game's fault if you aren't interested in diving into a game system when playing an RPG?

Yes. Very much so in fact. Games are supposed to be fun and engaging. If it's not either then the game is doing something painfully horribly wrong. The hell kind of question is that.

>There is the "automatic" junction system if you really don't care.

Ideally I SHOULD care, is the problem. And If the game gives you the option to side step it's systems then it's systems probably aren't very good.

>>3894192
>playing soccer
>standing in the middle of the field just watching the others play, team mates start complaining
>"But it's not my fault is the game isn't engaging! Plus even without me you're still playing and doing decently so this game's system is obviously not very good".

The problem with VIII is that the story goes down many retarded and contrived avenues for gameplay reasons. Most video games have to deal with this problem and you have to recognise the medium you're dealing with and make allowances for it but this game is particularly bad on this.

>>3891152
>It takes some FAQ or wiki reading to figure it out
no it doesn't. It takes not being a braindead retard.

>>3892053
FF15 is basically Laguna's story

>>3894250
That's every game.

The entire Avalanche chasing Shinra for the Huge materia arc in FF7 was completely redundant and full of homosxual mini-games that had no real context on the actual story or game when it was over, because the huge materia was fuck all important.


Really FF7 in general was stupid as fuck. Sephiroth was a bad character, Cloud was stupid, Avalanche and Shinra were both stupid.

Avalanche wasn't even needed, seeing as how the planet is completely capable of defending itself, and it's clear that even if Cloud failed, the Ruby & Emerald weapons (and probably a bunch of other unknown weapons) were coming to the worlds defense and a worst case scenario would've been a crater on the Midgar continent.

>>3894576
If Laguna was a homosexual prince in an action RPG game.

>>3891152
>>3894456
The game has all kinds of help, info, tutorials, etc all avaiable at all times in the main menu.

>>3894578
Wow suck my dick

I loved the whole beginning part of FF8. I loved bumbling around the Garden and taking tests and hanging out in the food court and being bullied by Seifer and his goons (including the hot one who would randomly yell in caps for some reason).

Is there a game like this? Without all the weird sorceress bullshit, time compression, going to space, summons that make you lose your memory, etc.? Just like hanging out in a school trying to pass your exams while playing cards?

>>3894596
Disc 1-2 on repeat.

>>3894192
Considering many people find that enjoyable i guess the problem is you.

>>3891083
I'll never understand the obsessive, borderline unable to let it go hate the orphinage plot twist gets.

I played the game unspoiled, got to that part, knowing the game and plot have a boner for fate and close friendships, and that twist was a real "oh, ok..." moment for me. Didn't see it comming, but it didn't derail the game for me at all.
Just something that happened in the game.

Some people seem to just get hung up on it though. Like, to a bizzare and unhealthy level.
Even though GF memory loss is forshadowed, irvin's actions and things he says make sense, the theme song of the game is called "the children of fate" for fuck sakes. And then the plot twist itself is just something minor. Yet these people get absolutely bent over it.

Tjey claim it came out of nowhere, ruined the game for them, they stopped.playing at that point and etc.

What the actual fuck?
I think this could be used as a test for autism or something, lol.

>>3894695
>they stopped playing at that point
>never got to experience the wonders of disc 3 and Esthar
shiggitydiggity

>>3894695
Not like Square hasn't done it before. The same thing happens in the beginning of III.

FF8's plot is a bit contrived, but everything is spelled out for the player. Not only does the cast allude to all the cohesive elements of the story on numerous occasions, but the game's menu system even includes a tutorial / lore section that provides additional coverage in case the player needs a refresher.

You guys DID bother to look at that section of the menu, right? It's regularly updated with new lore the further you progress into the story, and as you interact with the various NPCs scattered around the world. (Granted, some of the entries in that menu are missable if you don't bother to speak to any NPCs ever.)

Remember: A number of later games in the series had intentionally fragmented or underdeveloped plots or characters specifically because SE wants to sell you accompanying companion guides, such as Ultimania, or shitty licensed novel series. No additional supplements are required to understand FF8's plot, because once again, *every* important detail is constantly alluded to, and there's even a fucking menu entry to place the game's characters, world and lore right at the player's fingertips.

tl;dr - If you found FF8 to be confusing or underdeveloped, you likely need to work on your reading comprehension.

I'm still trying to figure out who the third sorceress is, and how Rinoa was able to receive two different sorceresses powers.

>>3894695
>I'll never understand the obsessive, borderline unable to let it go hate the orphinage plot twist gets.
because it's lazy. Players were accustomed to characters having their own arc and having always some point in the game where you deal with them. In FF8 that was swept away. No sidequests for every character, no uniqueness, no different viewpoints. All of them have the same background, how convenient.

People defending the plot twist by "it was foreshadowed" miss the point. It just one of the many things that made FF8 a worse JRPG compared to the classics of the genre

>>3894751
>he still doesn't get it.

It all makes sense if you pay attention to the ending of the game. There's more cards at hand than "OH IT'S JUST FATE THAT WE'RE ALL RECONNECTED TEE-HEE"

>>3894726
What? FF3 has no plot. Did you play the shitty DS remake?

>>3894783
first, it's my first post here regarding the controversial plot twist, so forget the "still", I'm not anyone else whom you discussed with. Second, you don't seem to read well, because you completely ignored the point of my post and went again for the narrative point of view. I'm saying that the decision translates into less gameplay and less quality. Just think about every character in FF6, or CT, or FF7 having their own story to discover and resolve by doing quests. In the end you end up feeling like you got the complete package. So instead of doing sidequests that improved both story AND gameplay, you're left doing mindless shit like killing 20 tomberries, spotting a UFO multiple times or playing Triple Triad over and over because the developers thought of a background that was valid for all the characters minus Rinoa and thus there was no need to focus resources on them.

FFVIII felt like the first FF where I didn't feel the love behind by its creators. It's details like this.

>>3891651
Not to mention she gets to hang out on the bridge like she's Squall's number two while the two schlubs who actually do their jobs get none of the credit.

>>3894751
The point is to show how strong love and friendship can be. They have to save the universe and time itself using "the power of love" together.

In order to do that, they need a strong bond, not just "we're friends because we just met the other day and we passed our exams together", but true friendship with a solid base. In other words, having grown up together and still being friends more than a decade later.

The story is a love letter... to love itself and friendship, to show that people can overcome anything if they stick together. You missed it all because "boo it's not like FF6/7"

>>3894818
You're right, tedious catching and breeding chocobo's, and grinding a battle arena were way different than Tonberry's and UFO's.

Or the Chocobo treasure hunt, and friendly enemies in FF9.


There's plenty of character development, and side options for further character development in FF8, much like the others. Just because they're from the same background doesn't make the characters less unique.

>>3894830
>There's plenty of character development, and side options for further character development in FF8, much like the others.

straight up lie

>>3894834
Well, yeah if you hate the game and don't do any side dialogue, sure it's easy to miss.

You actually have to go out of your way in this one, unlike FF7 which mandates you do these things or you lose out on ultimate weapons and limit breaks.

>>3894840
a brief mention in some obscure dialog is not substitute for a full quest (optional or not) with a contained plot in its own. Final Fantasy VI has 12 fucking playable characters and you get to deal about their past with almost all of them. FFVIII has 6 (not counting Laguna and company because it's dishonest) and has no time to relegate them to mere watchers of the GRAND LOVE STORY. But it's okay because there's some line buried in Selphie's blog

>>3894824
To this, I will add that if they had made it so that it was known to the player that they've known each others for so long, the player would have felt like he missed everything about the characters and their interactions.

The memory loss is a nice plot strategy so that the player can learn to know the characters as they (re)learn to know each others, without feeling left out, while still preserving the point I menionned. Actually it even enhances that point considering that the strength of their friendship overcomes even memory loss, that it's a bond that's stronger than simply what the people remember from each others.

>>3894851
Because the point IS that they're in this TOGETHER. It's their story, as a group of friends, NOT story of X + story of Y which meet at some point.

Again you're crying because "it's not like FF6/7".

>>3894851
Final Fantasy 6 also have 12 fucking pixels, so I'd hope to god they had an additional side quest or two, and 8 delivers on the same punch in a different dynamic.

Instead of going to Point A, to grab Item A, and take it to Point B to get rewarded Item B and extended dialogue, you have to make sure you check on Irvine before you wrap up FH, you have to make sure you stay at Zell's house before you wrap up Balamb, you have to make sure you read the entire Garden terminal communications, including dialogue from Seifer, and Zell, and believe it or not, Selphie too.


It makes it more enjoyable, and less of an item hunt. You can actually dive deep into the immersion, as opposed to trying to min-max a party build and make sure you get Vincent's final form, and ultimate weapon.

>>3894859
>Instead of going to Point A, to grab Item A, and take it to Point B to get rewarded Item B and extended dialogue, you have to make sure you check on Irvine before you wrap up FH, you have to make sure you stay at Zell's house before you wrap up Balamb, you have to make sure you read the entire Garden terminal communications, including dialogue from Seifer, and Zell, and believe it or not, Selphie too.
>It makes it more enjoyable, and less of an item hunt.

so let me get this straight:
>JRPG gameplay & mechanics in a JRPG is boring
>reading terminal entries is enjoyable
of course you guys love FFVIII above any other JRPG. Have you realized that you may not like the genre as much?

>>3894862
Well, seeing as how the only time the word 'boring' has been used in this thread is in your post, I can't help but think you're grasping at something that isn't there.

I'd just rather my character building be true, and not some side motive behind me acquiring items, which is why FF8 feels so genuine.

>>3894868
other reasons why FF8 feels genuine:
>almost no dungeons other than Ultimecia's castle and Lunatic Pandora with all the enemies locked at level 1 (thus defeating the purpose of a dungeon). Everything else are short strolls
>less bosses of any FF ever, and very underwhelming to boot.
>worst ratio of gameplay vs story and cinematics until FF13 came in. It's the MGS4 of the series.
>best way to improve your characters is by playing a card game as opposed to playing the actual game
>worst sidequests by a landslide in the series
yep, so good and genuine. So un-gamey. Because those filthy games like FF6, 7, 9, Chrono Trigger, or other series like Grandia and Suikoden are so gamey, which sucks, because I love FF8 for being an "unconventional" game (what is unconventional is that it's hardly a game). I definitely prefer regular protags with regular characters having regular lives and regular motivations instead of tragic stories that ignite the spark of an adventure. That's so non genuine and gamey.

I prefer my games to not be a game. And then tell everybody else that if they didn't like this non-game, they destroyed the entire franchise

Not only the worst game in the series but the worst fans too.

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>>3891083
>>3891085

>1-28

The whole game was written with Squall in mind. Squall has all the answers. And every answer is ...whatever

>>3894880
Your greentext points don't even make sense. Do you even know what a fucking dungeon is, in an RPG?

Nobody counts the bosses because there are too fucking many.

Tell me the science behind your gameplay vs story ratio.

The best way to improve characters is by optimal GF pathing, and item refinement. I don't cardmod until Omega because I hate to lose my precious deck.

There's plenty of sidequests, and they're all amazing, save for maybe Winhill and the Obel Lake.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Everyone knows FF11 ruined the Final Fantasy franchise, and namesake, and 12 set the path further in stone by maintaining mobile combat, and AI party member gimmicks.

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>>3894890
>FF11 ruined the Final Fantasy franchise
the combo of X-2, 11, 12 and 13 definitely made me drop the franchise for good

>>3894903
Yeah. X-2 was great fap fodder when I was young, then I was sorely disappointed to hear I couldn't play FFXI without a monthly subscription, and then 12 came out and it was some run around mobile combat shit that completely didn't even feel or play like a Final Fantasy game in any aspect.

Years later, I'd already given up on the series, but a normie at my job told me to play 13 because he loved it, and... I made it to Australia-Land before I quit, because it was complete ass.

>they hype up a Golden Saucer clone town
>there's literally ZERO things to interact with, not even a fucking NPC civillian or anything.

>>3894890
>What the fuck are you even talking about?
Refining cards breaks the game to pieces faster than anything else

>>3894915
Yes, if you know exactly what you're doing, and read a guide you can break the game easily, what's new in Final Fantasy?

pros:
>best soundtrack in the series
>excellent story with one of the most fleshed out worlds in the series
>best aesthetic and setting in the series
>best combat animations in the series (magic, limits, summoning, items)
>best minigame in the series (triple triad)
>huge amount of side content
>GF progression

cons:
>shit combat
>junctioning is a terrible character progression system and can be broken within an hour or two in the game
>draw is only useful for acquiring new GFs and is the biggest waste of time in the world for anything else
>weapon system is shit
>story requires multiple playthroughs and/or a high level of retention to comprehend without going full retard with spoony memes and orphanage misunderstandings
>forced romance with no bearing on the story that just happens out of the blue after 10 words exchanged between Squall and Rinoa; even Irvinie/Selphie is more fleshed out and believable
>only reason for leveling is certain item drops for the best weapons, given that you don't want to refine cards

You know the gameplay is shit when the best way to play the game is to get strength to 120-ish and learn Enc-None from Diablos ASAP. There is just no reason to fight random enemies.

you know, giving memory destroying monsters to children and turning them into child soldiers is kinda evil now that I think about it

>>3895612
It's part of the prophecy.

As one of the "haters" in this thread, I'd like to say that FF8 is by no means a disaster. Its music is pretty damn good outside one notable exception (and in my mind this is balanced out by having battle themes that don't grate). All of its prerendered stuff is beautiful and the rest of the aesthetic is very, very pleasing. The translation is good, and certain aspects of the gameplay including the card game are pretty fun.

However, it will never be the best Final Fantasy, and I'm not sure it's a top-5 either.

>>3895881
It's just a hit or miss for most people. I love it more than other FFs for many reasons but I'm just tired of trying to talk about FF8 on this website. I don't give a shit anymore.

>>3894578
I agree with you that the villains of FF7 were unbelievably weak, but Cloud had legitimate reasons for what he did same as Squall.


>>3895881
One of my biggest reasons for hating FF8 was because of the stupid as fuck love story between a guy who hates his clingy as fuck girlfriend being the central focus. It's made even worse when everyone else tries to force you together for no real reason. Honestly if the rest of the game was like the first disc it would have been so much better, maybe even a top 5 for me.

>>3895595
>>best soundtrack in the series

no

>>excellent story with one of the most fleshed out worlds in the series

The world is inconsistent and can't even decide what level of technology it wants to have. Radio signals are apparently a big deal but they have a working space program and robots every which way? Yeah no.

>>best aesthetic and setting in the series

Ditto

>>3896323
>The world is inconsistent and can't even decide what level of technology it wants to have. Radio signals are apparently a big deal but they have a working space program and robots every which way? Yeah no.
I think you need to replay the game. Esthar is the only nation on the planet with advanced technology, and they seemingly disappeared from the face of the planet 17 years prior to the events of the game. The rest of the world is stuck with relatively primitive technology; especially communication wise because of Adel's space tomb. All of their robot tech is decades old.

>>3891083
Everything

>Shitty story.
>Edgy loner as the main character, spoiled bitch as his gf.
>Junction system, forces yourself to play a card game or draw magic from monsters for hours. Alternatively, you can spam espers, but the game will kick your ass at the end of disc 3.
>Soundtrack was okayish
>SQUALL I'M A WITCH PLEASE DON'T LEAVE ME ;~;

>Go to ruined Trabia Garden.
>All about Selphie cheering the survivors up and dealing with the garden's destruction.
>Head to basketball court and talk to Selphie about the garden being blown the fuck up.
>Rinoa butts in and starts whining about herself not fitting in with the others.
>In Selphie's ruined hometown.
>While the rest of the team is still talking to Selphie.

Rinoa is a self-centered bitch.

>>3895612
They were all unwanted orphans better that than them ending up selling their holes for crack

>>3894578
>Sephiroth was a bad character

You're saying the product of an experiment to create the perfect warrior who spends his entire life full of emptiness and confusion as a Shinra puppet who finally discovers his origins and is both so disgusted and liberated by the truth he decides to fulfill his true potential and take the planet and all its power for himself as a big fuck you to everyone is a bad character when compared to an anonymous witch with vague motivations who we don't even meet properly until the final battle in the game?

Yeah you're talking shit son. VII is a masterpiece of storytelling compared to VIII.

>>3897868
Well, you clearly weren't able to comprehend either game based on this post.

>>3891083

2. Ellone can further her reach to the past where she can *cough* compress time completely I suppose. I guess there was a limit to where she could posess people.

3. I never really got the hate for it. I figured that Irvine would have known that Balamb was heavily using GF's and didn't want to alarm the party. He was nervous about shooting Edea because he recognised her and didn't know what to say, so he just kept quiet.

8. I think they're about as alive as unsent in FFX.

11. NORG was the financer, Cid made the entire Balamb garden project with that money and with the orphans he was looking after (which is a bit fucked up, because he was in essence raising child soldiers).

23. Squall's attitude changed as soon as Rinoa got the sorceress powers, same as when Seifer became Edea's lackey. Sorceresses have crazy powers of suggestion, this was hinted at throughout the game. I'd consider it to be similar to the indoctrination effect in the old mass effect games.

Can't be arsed going over more than the stand out ones.

>>3898001
>23. Squall's attitude changed as soon as Rinoa got the sorceress powers, same as when Seifer became Edea's lackey. Sorceresses have crazy powers of suggestion, this was hinted at throughout the game. I'd consider it to be similar to the indoctrination effect in the old mass effect games.

Regarding Squall and Seifer, It's not exactly indoctrination as it is fate. It is true that the game hints at sorceresses power of persuasion, but I think that doesn't concern Squall & Seifer but rather other things, like the crowd of Galbadia city being all cheers when Edea kills their mayor.

Regarding Squall&Seifer I think it's more a question of "fate". Every sorceress has a to have knight, that's how it is. Edea has Seifer. Rinoa has Squall.
In any case that still doesn't mean that Rinoa forces Squall to "love" her, the game never hints at that, and if they did it would greatly reduce the strength of the love story which is central in the story.
If anything, it's more like Squall become Rinoa's knight, among other things, made him realize things and opened him up.
All the theorys claiming that Rinoa forced Squall to love him, as a sorceress, completely miss the "knight" point and also the fact that Squall did show interest in Rinoa before she becomes a sorceress, in several occasions.

>>3897868
you probably intended that description of Sephiroth to sound really cool... to me it just sounds like a 13-year-old designed the character. unsurprisingly, everyone who thinks FFVII is a "masterpiece of storytelling" (as you put it) played it when they were 13.

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>>3897868
> when compared to an anonymous witch with vague motivations who we don't even meet properly until the final battle in the game?

You failed to comprehend why Ultimecia does what she does.

Ultimecia lives in a far away future, but in the world of FF8, due to time travel, past, present and future are all connected.
In this future a prophecy tells that a sorceress called Ultimecia will try to compress all time, and that Squall&co will come to defeat her. Think of it that way: after Squall&co defeat Ultimecia and go back to the present, their story lives on in history books.

In other words, when Ultimecia gets born, her fate is already foretold. Everyone thinks she'll be "evil" before her first word and SHE knows Squall&co will come to destroy her. BECAUSE of that she wants to use time compression, which she believes is the only way she can survive, beat destiny.

Now, think for a second.
Ultimecia wants to kill everyone and time itself, because Squall&co want to kill her and she thinks.
Squall&co want to kill Ultimecia because she wants to compress time and kill everyone.

It's the snake biting its tail, and it's EXACTLY the strength of FF8's story; It goes WAY beyond the cliché jRPG villain "bad guy wants to conquer/destroy the world/galaxy/universe".

On the contrary, FF8's story tries to go beyond and put things in perspective. For instance, the game tells you "not all sorceresses are bad".
Then, there is also the mayor of Horizon which tells believes conflict can be avoided if the two sides would sit around a table and talk. Squall thinks that's bullshit, but only because he was a born soldier, brought up solely to be a sorceress killer and trained soldier. It turns out that the mayor of Horizon was right, if Ultimecia and Squall stopped and talked for a second, they'd both realize they only want to kill each others because the other party wants to kill them.

>>3897868
Good god that was cringey. Now that I think about it, all Final Fantasy villains look like they were written and designed by a teenager with aspergers. Hell the the best one is a juggalo that destroys the world for literally no reason other than how edgy he is. Just once I'd like a JRPG villain with at least the same level of depth as Knives from Trigun.

It's shit YA Fiction is why.

>>3898372
That's what I liked about villains like Sephiroth and Liquid. Despite their grand ambitions and incredible ability, they were just petty little shits who couldn't get over their childhood traumas.

>>3898420

This is true.

>>3898396
>It's the snake biting its tail, and it's EXACTLY the strength of FF8's story
Final Fantasy 1 did the exact same thing.

>>3895595
>best soundtrack in the series

heh

It bugs me how FF8 tosses out plot points as soon as it's done with them.

Remember Balamb Garden was involved in a civil war and you killed the yellow marshmellow slug man that was the cause of it? Those disappeared as soon as you took NORG's HP to zero.

The orphanage plot twist sure had a lot of foreshadowing via the GF memory loss plot point! Too bad the GF plot point never comes up nor impacts the plot again once the team learns about their shared past.

Whatever happened to Galbadia Garden after defeating Edea? It sure would've been nice to know what happened to THE GIANT FLYING RED SCHOOL/FORTRESS HYBRID you were having a life-or-death battle with moments ago once you beat the leader! Instead, we got to see Squall slobber on Rinoa ASAP and get an exposition dump from Edea because THE GIANT FLYING RED SCHOOL/FORTRESS HYBRID that was hellbent on killing you and everyone inside Balamb Garden is no longer relevant to the love story or the main villain.

Hell, think about how important Balamb Garden was in Disks 1 and 2, to the point where Disk 2 involves you saving it from Galbadia trying to destroy it multiple times. Suddenly, Disk 3 starts and it is casually written out of the story once you start heading to Esthar, never to return, because it is not 100% relevant to the all-new plotline about Ultimecia that has popped up out of the blue and Squall's sudden quest to bone Rinoa.

>>3898571
>Remember Balamb Garden was involved in a civil war and you killed the yellow marshmellow slug man that was the cause of it? Those disappeared as soon as you took NORG's HP to zero.
NORG's henchmen were looking for Cid. Cid goes to confront NORG, and then Squall and co kills him. The end. There is no "civil war."

>Whatever happened to Galbadia Garden after defeating Edea? It sure would've been nice to know what happened to THE GIANT FLYING RED SCHOOL/FORTRESS HYBRID you were having a life-or-death battle with moments ago once you beat the leader! Instead, we got to see Squall slobber on Rinoa ASAP and get an exposition dump from Edea because THE GIANT FLYING RED SCHOOL/FORTRESS HYBRID that was hellbent on killing you and everyone inside Balamb Garden is no longer relevant to the love story or the main villain.
Ultimecia orders Seifer to find and retrieve the Lunatic Pandora in the ocean, which he does using Galbadia Garden and their resources. There is no more war without Ultimecia. She infiltrated the Galbadian government and started invading the non-Esthar continents to find Ellone. This ends when Edea is defeated and Ultimecia is transferred to Rinoa.

It's almost as if you didn't play the game. Notice how every single person in this thread who shits on the story gets everything wrong?
M E N T A L C A P A C I T Y
You lack it.

>>3898550
While music is subjective, that statement is objective as it is the general consensus. Google it. Heh.

>>3891083
>7. This game punishes you for leveling up by making the enemies stronger.
>punishes
FFVIII is one of the easier ffs son, get a grip

>>3891171
>I remember they touched this on disc 1.

Yes they did, in an optional little non-scene you have to go out of your way to see.

>>3891296
Who the fuck is spoony and why does he have such a shitty name?

>>3891339
>There's no other way to rationalize his exclusion from the group.

Didn't he disobey orders and run off from where he was assigned to stay during the test? Doesn't matter how good he is if he won't follow even the most basic of orders.

>>3891369
>It would be a different story if Irvine had been at Balamb.

If he was at Balamb wouldn't he be using GFs and losing memories as well? I remember the game stating that the Garden he went to does not use GFs. Also the memory effects of a GF must be even worse on children since their brains are still developing.

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>>3899292
>why does he have such a shitty name?

breh

>>3891662
I could see him being elected president.

>Hey our last leader was a tyrant.
>But she's gone so we need a new leader now.
>Who's the least threatening person you can think of?
>Ah yes, the idiot sleeping during the meeting that determines the future of our nation.

>>3899295
Doesn't matter. Seifer was one of the kids at the orphanage.

>>3894751
Not that anon but I never looked at it like that. Still don't think the twist itself is bad or anything. But I would have rather there be a sidequest or two for each character that fleshes them out and gives them development, and gives them more of a reason to care about each other besides "Oh hey, we all lived in this building at the same time and now we're back together".

>>3894824
Since the majority of their memories are gone I'd say they didn't really grow up together. Sure they know that they stayed at the orphanage together but they don't really remember much about it.

Like there's a difference between knowing who was in your first grade class cause you found an old year book and remembering it all first hand.

>not just "we're friends because we just met the other day and we passed our exams together"

Considering that they're more or less mercs I wish the game the "fire forged friends" angle more with them bonding by fighting together in combat.

>>3898396
>Everyone thinks she'll be "evil" before her first word

Last I checked sorceresses aren't born with their powers, they have to inherit them from another sorceress, and we have no idea when Ultimecia got her powers and if there's a way to tell if someone can become a sorceress before they get a transfer.

>>3899301
I got the reference. But the word "spoony" makes for a shit name. Like how some words make good insults but shit names.

>>3899380
most youtube e-celebs have terrible names now that I think about it

>>3897952
Explain why or suck my dick and admit defeat bitch

OK, so let's say the GF memory loss thing is a legit storytelling tool. GFs were pushed on the Gardenites only after they enrolled there, right?

Shouldn't Seifer, Squall, Zell, and Quistis have recognized one another in that period after each joined the Garden but before they started extensively using GFs? After that, it should have basically been in their active memory.

>>3899654
>>3897868
1. Sephiroth doesn't discover his origins. That's just it. He's misinformed, and the misconception that he's an artificial human directly related to Jenova and that it was an Ancient is what causes him to lose his mind and pursue its original goal.
2. Ultimecia's motivations aren't vague, and she doesn't come out of nowhere. If you're unable to retain the required information for the duration of a game, then maybe you should, I don't know, glance through a summary written by someone who isn't braindead like yourself before shitposting and coming off as someone who was legitimately dropped on their head as an infant.

>>3899673
Zell and Quistis were adopted, Squall and Seifer weren't. Squall and Seifer started training with GFs and para-magic at the age of 6, whereas Quistis and Zell enrolled 4 and 7 years later respectively. The only thing that remained Quistis' sisterly love for Squall, and he and Seifer's rivalry.

>Xenogears died so that FF8 could live

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I WONT LET ANYONE TALK ABOUT ME IN THE PAST TENSE

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>>3898371

I honestly think that if the theory is true then Rinoa was doing it subconciously. When she was in a coma and it was clear that the garden couldn't do anything, Squall tried walking it all the way to Esthar. Even asked himself what he was doing on the way.

Same thing goes for when Raijin claims that Seifer hasn't been acting himself for most the game.

No way to prove any of this either way, but it makes the story a lot more interesting.

>>3899730
He is misinformed only at first but that's not really the point. His madness was a release of inner turmoil that had built up and been suppressed his entire life triggered by the discovery he was a product and had been used. You or someone said he was a "bad" character and still have not sufficiently explained why instead you just continue to champion FF8's train wreck of a story and pretend anyone who disagrees doesn't understand.

>>3899957
Feel free to point out a post that have legitimate criticisms about the plot that doesn't stem from lack of comprehension.
>the writers didn't cater to my 82 IQ and goldfish memory therefore it sucks
Not an argument.

>>3899984
This one>>3899984

>>3899984
VIII is garbage m8 and the reason it's considered one of the worst in the series isn't because the story was so amazing gamers couldn't wrap their heads around it you fedora tipping cum guzzling seat sniffer

How to spot a low IQ ''gamer''?

Hates FFVIII

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1. Do even the slightest bit of card modding/item refining and you can have thousands of HP and an attack stat that makes bosses trivial by Dollet because mundane/cheap items give 3rd-tier spells, often in large amounts

or

2. Don't play the card game/cruise for RF material but now have to accrue magic in the most tedious way possible, plus you don't feel like you can cast your magic because you're actively weakening yourself, and never knowing where you're going to be able to find a particular spell

>>3900039
Still not an argument. Try again.

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>1. What's the point of setting the missile error ratio to max if the missiles are going to arrive at their destination anyway?
If you remember, the missiles had eyes. They could hit moving targets if they were programmed, I guess.

>2. Why is Ultimecia hellbent on capturing Ellone and using her powers when she can already travel through time?
Wrong. Squall's time period was as far as she could go. But Ellone could only send Ultimecia to Adel's body that she knew 8 years ago. We can infer Ultimecia wanted to go back to before the Centra Continent was destroyed by Adel using the Lunatic Pandora.
I believe "Centra was destroyed 80 years ago" was a typo.

>3. The orphanage scene. HAI WE ALL ACTUALLY KNOW EACH OTHER.
>11. Did Cid create Balamb Garden, did NORG, did Esthar, or is it an ancient Cetra shelter? Make up your mind game.
They weren't the only orphans. There where lots of orphans after the Sorceress War. An entire continent was destroyed. The White SeeD's were also raised by Edea. The way I understood it, They packed up all the Orphans into shelters from Centra and moved them across the world. With Norg's financial support, they trained and operated as Mercenaries for hire.

>16. If Ultimecia's powers can only be in one sorceress how come Edea and Adel are both sorceresses at the same time?
There are multiple Sorceresses. There was a Sorceresses war before the events of the game. She's connected to them, because presumably their power would eventually be passed to her in the future.

>17. What's the point of Rinoa deactivating Adel's tomb if it was going to fall to Earth anyway with the Lunar Cry?
Why not? If you want something done right, do it yourself. Rinoa was close by, so might as well get Adel thawed out.

>18. Why is Adel so big?
She junctioned herself to a Gigas

>20. Where does Galbadia Garden go after disc 2?
The Army used it to retrieve the Lunatic Pandora out of the Ocean. Probably cannibalized it make the weapon mobile again.

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>>3900320
Incidentally, Ultimecia's Castle is floating north of the Edea's Orphanage. Which would put it in the vicinity of that crater.

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>>3899348
>Since the majority of their memories are gone I'd say they didn't really grow up together.

>I'd say

And you'd say wrong. Because you don't remember something doesn't mean it didn't happen. And like I said, bonds are more than just memories. There is a subconscious link involved with friendship and love, or even something that has nothing to do with any level of consciousness. That is I think one of the things the game tries to convey under the giant "fate" theme, these people don't remember they grew up together, and yet here they are, still friends more than a decade later.

>>3900356
The way Sorceresses get their powers is irrelevant to that matter though. However, it's true that this, as well as Ellone's powers, are unexplained plot points. We just have to take it for granted as "magic" just like anything magical in any other FF game.

>>3900356
I for one don't believe the castle is near the Orphanage. The reason they start at disc4 at the orphanage is because they needed to find a place they were all bonded with to go through time compression.

As for the castle, it is very hard to get a sense of scale of it, but one thing that's for sure if you look at the different ways those giant links (which connected the castle to the earth) are pictured, they have different placement and scale depending.

When you walk on them those links are FUCK HUGE, and you don't see the ones next to the one you're walking on. Also when you get to the the end, you don't see other links either.

I believe the walk on the link is supposed to be super long and we don't see all it in game because it's pointless.

Also, that giant link opens teleportation doors to iirc about 6-8 different places on the world.
I think that teleporter doors on the link are supposed to represent different links you could walk on to go back to earth.

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>>3900572
Plus, those teleporter doors show up as you find new exits INSIDE the castle, giving further weight to this theory (it's like you found an exit on the other side, found another link, which links to another place in the world.

In other words, the castle isn't exactly above the orphanage. It's above the 'world', no precisily known point, and its giant links link it to plenty of different places in the world.

As for
>>3900320
>We can infer Ultimecia wanted to go back to before the Centra Continent was destroyed by Adel using the Lunatic Pandora.

Well, she wants to be able to go back enough to create time compression. You may have a point, as in, PERHAPS she wanted to go back to the sorceress war to further increase her powers by using the sorceresses of that time, but that's a theory with, to my knowledge, no in game fact or even hint as a base.

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>>3891083
Aside from having broken gameplay and the worst love story in the history of video games I didn't actually think it was that bad. Yeah it was flawed as fuck but so is every other Final Fantasy if you take of the nostalgia goggles. Squall may not be the best written JRPG protagonist but I actually find it easier to relate to him than the dumb shonen anime kiddie and vapid Gary Stus you see in every other JRPG that isn't Final Fantasy. I still think FF8 has the best soundtrack, FMV direction and minigame, and the villain could have been great if she wasn't such a bait and switch.

>>3900139
Eat a dick and shit it out your anus you flamboyant homer sexual

>>3900581
>teleporter doors
Pretty sure there's 3 on the left to start, and then one additional one on the right where you find the Ragnorak, and nothing further.

>>3901004
I think there are 6 total, 3 on each side. You just haven't found them all.

However I think I was wrong, maybe you find the doors on the world map, not from within the castle. Still my point stands.

>>3901039
I'm like 99.9% sure there's only 4 total doors, with 3 of them being immediately available and the final needing to be accessed from the world map from the Ragnorak's location.

Adel being huge/alien-looking doesn't bother me, what bothers me is that it has no female features yet they insist it's female. I doubt they were trying to make some sort of trans statement so I can only assume they had a good design they didn't want to waste and so they shoehorned it in as a sorceress.

I mean, they could have just said "sorcerer," but whatever.

>>3901058
>long red hair
>feminine name
>literally a sorceress

b-but it kind of looks like a man, and it's b-big

>>3901042
And I'm 100 % sure there are at least six. IIRC you have to find them on the world map.

>>3901089
you prove it, and I'll believe it. But, I'm calling horse shit.

>>3901094
It's okay man, I too thought I knew everything about FF8, but turns out I was still learning stuff on my 10th playthrough.

>>3901161
I stand by 4 unless you can show me otherwise.

This game was great
Unlike FF15, what a piece of shit

>>3901061
2/3 of this taxonomy also applies to Kuja, and I've seen male/female forms of terminology like sorcerer/sorceress botched enough times that I don't take that for granted.

>>3894818
>Just think about every character in FF6, or CT, or FF7 having their own story to discover and resolve by doing quests

To be fair the playable characters in FF8 are all 17 or 18 so they're quite young to be having their own individual backstories anyway. The player knows that each of them have been studying at gardens so they're unlikely to have been anywhere else for most of their teenage years.

Laguna, Kiros, Ward, and Edea are all playable as well and are much older - they DO have their own individual plotlines (ok Kiros and Ward have theirs tied with Laguna, but still.)

Compare this to FF7 where the ages of the playable characters vary from 16 to 57 (Vincent's real age) with plenty of ages represented inbetween. It makes more sense that most of the playable characters in FF7 have their own backstories because they are older. But in FF8 Squall and the other SeeD are all around the same age and won't have had much outside experience.

>>3902314
Age isn't an excuse. Other JRPGs showed that backstories about their families or place of origin can work well (Red XIII, Lucca, Yufie). But it doesn't matter because square took the easy way with FF8.

But hey it's revolutionary, nesfag says so. As if every revolution is synonym of good. Bet he liked games Castlevania II, Deus Ex invisible wars or Metroid other M

>>3902363

I looked it up because I wasn't sure when Squall and others started studying at their Gardens - Squall was 6 when he goes to Balamb is still there 12 years later. Unless you wanted a background story where you get to learn about Squall's adventure through puberty, there is almost nothing interesting to be divulged from having individual background stories from each of the SeeD members so yes in this case: age is an excuse.

>>3902363
Literally every main character other than Rinoa has the exact same backstory.
>parents killed in sorceress war
>stay at Edea's orphanage for 5 or so years
>get adopted (except Squall and Seifer, who go directly to Balamb) and enroll at one of the Gardens around the world
>zero long term memory and limited short term recollection of minor events and people
Unless you want the riveting tales of Zell eating hotdogs with his adoptive mother, there's literally nothing that warrants further examination. The whole point of the memory loss is to show the sacrifices Cid and Edea were willing to make to save the future.

>>3898865
>A general consensus is objectively correct
Heh x2.

>>3902601
Like 95% of the FF fanbase agrees that FFVIII has the best soundtrack in the series. Music is subjective, and the general opinion outweighs some fucknugget going "heh" on 4chan.

>>3896323
>Radio signals are apparently a big deal but they have a working space program and robots every which way?

Sounds like the sort of diversity of technology levels you might find in, say, Japan.

>>3902749
Not that guy but I honestly think FFX has a way better soundtrack.

Ultimecia's Castle is the greatest end game dungeon of all time.

The amount of puzzles, navigation screens, bosses, I mean, holy god, even aesthetics-wise that place is amazing.

>want to see FF8 ending again
>haven't played FF8 in years
>plug in PS2
>put in memory cards I have on hand
>load up the only data I have on Disc 4
>it's right at the entrance to the castle
>I approach the door
>the dialogue starts up to show I haven't even been in there yet
>sit down, strap in, shut up
>spend the next hours completely in bliss as I go through the entire thing
>go to finish off last boss
>get cocky as fuck at the end
>after she's already been beat, and she just sits there talking and casting spells on you
>for like, 10 minutes
>die
>hadn't saved the entire time since I loaded the data

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>>3903572
Hell yeah. Love the bosses. Also playing as the 2nd team, without Squall.

The only annoying part was having to switch magics/junctions when switching teams (because who hell has stuff junctionned to more than 3 characters?), thankfully there is an automatic option for that.

I'm trying to beat this shit of a game for the first time, I always got stuck at Ultimecia's Castle. Now I already fought all the bosses there (not the optionals tho) and unlock commands and all that stuff. I tried to fight Ultimecia, but she killed me at her third form junctioned with Griever, just when she lost her tail. Any useful strategies for her? I'm at level 15 tho since I'm doing a no-level-up gameplay.

As for the general game, imho it's one of the worst FF I've played. There are things that are pretty great (f.e. music, witches' story, some characters, the card game), but Squall and Rinoa "romance" suck so much and they suck too as main characters, the plot is a mess and I had to find answers by wikia and here in this thread to finally understand what the hell happened, also zero motivation for fightning/grinding since enemies level up with you so what's the point.

Somehow VIII reminds me of XV, both have lots of potential but they wasted them.

>>3891083
I'm going to screencap all these and replay the game just to answer you.

>>3903616
The trickest part to the final battle, is assembling your party.

You want to kill off the bad three, and keep the good three.

Then assuming you have Lion Heart, just keep Squall on Aura, or low health, and every body else is on healing/summon duty. The summons should really just be used as meat shields though, so try and make sure everyone has their slowest least compatible GF's junctioned to get most out of their health poool.

>>3903616
> also zero motivation for fightning/grinding since enemies level up with you so what's the point.

The point is that lvling up gives you access to a wider range of ways to be stronger. People who thinks lvling "punishes" you just don't take advantage of these ways.

As for the story, it all comes full circling making sense when you see the ending.

>Any useful strategies for her?
Acquire stronger magics. Have a look at the items you have in your inventory that you may be able to turn into magic, although if you're doing a no lvl up run, there won't be a lot... in which case cards are your only option, and if you need AP without lvling up go fight a bunch of Cactuars on the desert of the world map.

But honestly, doing a no lvl up run before beating the game is just wrong. It also implies that you fell for the "lvling up punishes" meme before even trying to see for yourself and that you used FAQ to figure out how to play and get strong without lvling up.
The fun part of a no lvl up playthrough should exactly be to find out all that by yourself and to get the fun of one-shoting bosses due to that knowledge you learnt and exploited with time.

>>3902749
>Like 95% of the FF fanbase agrees that FFVIII has the best soundtrack in the series.
citation needed

>>3899918
this is a good fight because you can draw Aura

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Lets talk about the FMVs. They've aged pretty well.
Still get the feelz from this scene.

>>3905316
And then Squall erupted from his penis and then Ultimecia was dead.

>>3902749
I'm not even the first 'heh' guy. Even I'd agree than FF8 is at least in the top 3, maybe the best, but your reasoning that popular opinion = objective fact is bollocks and I hope you know it, else you're a fool.

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>>3903678
coolest moment in the game, too bad the fight's easy and gilgamesh kinda sucks

>>3892053
THIS

Laguna is such a bro. Fucking Squall didn't deserved to have such a cool dad.

>>3892090
That actually sounded even more awesome.

>>3905794
>Cool dad
>When he abandons his child

Well this comment will be lost in the noise, but here goes some theories:

> 1. There are multiple parallel universes being created by the time-travel antics and your experience as you play through the game is jumping between the events occurring in different parallel universes -- you are not seeing the same continuous universe throughout. Squall dead at the end of disc 1? Yes, but disc 2+ is some other universe, some other time loop

> 2. The 'dream world' events are the effect of the characters experiencing the time-compression (at the end of the game) from their current perspective in time

> 3. The 'dream world' could also be Squall & co. experiencing an overlap of the parallel worlds where the previous time loop occurred according to Laguna's story and the events of that time line lead to the next version of the time-loop, this time with Squall and co's story

> 4. The "memory loss" issue is actually caused by the time loops distorting reality from one loop to the next, and the people simply assume it's the GF's, having no better explanation at hand

Whatever is true, my personal opinion is that no theory can be true if just hand-waves away any of the critical plot points: 1. where did Ultimacea come from (IMO a different history, from a much earlier version of the time loop). 2. Why are the dream events happening? (no, it's not just a plot-exposition excuse crammed in) and 3. Why is Ultimacea aiming for time compression (again, not it's not just "bad guy does bad things, go kill them", I think she's trying to escape the time loop created by some alternate version of events).

Without consistent answers to those three questions, the game literally has no plot at all. It's just a bunch of random exposition with a load-bearing final boss with a "I'm evil, kill me" poster stuck to them.

>>3906439
Silly me, I completely forgot the fourth plot point that requires a consistent explanation. What has Ellone got to do with all of this?

IMO perhaps she is the start of everything -- the first sorceress, creates the loop in the first place and becomes Ultimacea, as far as the later loop iterations are concerned.

>>3906439
>1
No. The only time the timeline diverges is when Squall transitions from the timeline with a future Ultimecia to the one without her, while original universe goes for another loop with Ultimecia.
>2 and 3
No. Ellone desperately wants Squall and co to change the past. She's the cause of the flashbacks. That's her power.
>4
No, the memory loss is stems entirely from Odine's para-magic tech.

The Squall's Dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories are for absolute retards with the retention and mental capacity of a goldfish. I'm surprised the people who believe these theories are even able to use a PS1 controller.

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Ive recently started playing IX and noticed the different dialogue options you get to choose from time to time.

does anyone know what difference they make?

in VII it was mainly for collecting attraction points so you had a chance to get dat sweet BBC or in VIII it was mainly for the SeeD rank i guess, but was there a similar mechanic behind it in IX?

>>3900320
>the Centra Continent was destroyed by Adel using the Lunatic Pandora.
>I believe "Centra was destroyed 80 years ago" was a typo.

You are incorrect on this one bit. The Lunar Cry that destroyed the Centra continent was natural, but it was also the most powerful Lunar Cry known to have happened, hence it shattering an entire continent. There was an advanced civilization on that continent, but they were destroyed. The mobile shelters that would eventually be turned into Gardens were built by the Centra people, and they were used to flee to other parts of the world.

In the Laguna flashbacks, we see that Laguna, Kiros, and Ward were sent to the Centra continent by the Galbadian Officer who wanted Julia for himself. Laguna and friends stumbled onto the Centra excavating the giant crystal that fell to the Earth during the massive Lunar Cry. After Laguna's unit was defeated and fell into the ocean, the Estarian military finished excavating the crystal and brought it home. Dr. Odine used the crystal to build the Lunatic Pandora as a way of weaponizing the Lunar Cry. They test-fired it once on the Trabian Continent (you can find the crater in the game), but during that test Laguna was able to infiltrate it and sneak into Esthar where he defeated Adel. He ordered the Pandora dumped into the sea where it remained until the Galbadians recovered it.

>>3903305
ur right

File: 102938403.jpg (76KB, 699x468px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 699x468px

>>3891083
It's a fucking video game, holy shit. They threw the story together in five minutes as an excuse to show off cool FMVs and to get the characters from one cool place to another. There is plenty wrong with the game and you focused on almost none of it other than the drawing system.

>>3907171
>They threw the story together in five minutes as an excuse
Look at this guy right here. The only thing missing is Spoony catchphrases.

>>3907171
U JUST DONT HAVE THE MENTAL CAPACITY AND RETENTION TO ENJOY THIS EPIC MASTERPIECE!

>>3907190
Most people don’t have the level of reading comprehension or education necessary to really start to approach interpreting and understanding Final Fantasy VIII on anything but a surface level.

>>3892135
That amnesia thing was indeed a lame plot device.

But to be fair it's not strange the idea to have side effects when you have a hundred years old creature living inside your conscience. That could be actually a awesome plot element if it was used well... Think about GFs giving opinions or something to say to all those questions that Squall ask himself.

>>3906683
small shit like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlcH6gIoVj0

Fisherman's Horizon is such a huge bummer the first time you go there. Like, I don't want to make Quistis tap dance so I can woo Rinoa, fuck you.

>>3907205
Yeah, it's not that it's not a feasible fantasy element, what irks me is that they did that smarmy thing fiction writers do where they mention something in passing somewhere and think that makes their plot twist OK. It's like they're saying, "Nuh-uh, you can't question our crazy reveal, we referenced it in the computer right at the beginning!" But nowhere else in the main canon of the story does this make an impact; no one forgets anything else important, it's never explored emotionally, and it never creates any real conflict. Unless you count Irvine being unable to shoot Edea, which is meaningless because he takes it eventually and she blocks the shot.

>>3907254
The GF/Para-Magic side effects are mentioned and hinted at constantly throughout the world as you progress. Squall literally forgets one of the people he graduated with and has to be reminded when talking to him later in the game. There are even "Familiar Face" NPCs in various locations.

>>3907258
It doesn't matter the number or frequency of its mention. None of those encounters are qualitative. Foreshadowing is not in and of itself a positive thing.

>>3907265
It's there, though. If you missed it, you have no right to complain that it comes out of nowhere later in the game.

>>3907270
I never said it came out of nowhere. I just criticized its quality. It'd be like building the Taj Mahal and putting in wooden boards instead of marble floors. "It gets you from point A to point B, doesn't it?" "Yes, but it looks like shit."

>It'd be like building the Taj Mahal and putting in wooden boards instead of marble floors
>implying that wouldn't look awesome
I'm just going to go play with some matches.

>>3907265
>None of those encounters are qualitative.

Are you shitting me with this one?

There are people that are shown as to be suspicious. Those people tell you "not to believe the rumours about GFs". Later on during the Norg events, we understand that all these people cared for was making money, using SeeD not for what it was really created but to make money.
And you know what's, that's just ONE example. There are many throughout Disc 1 and 2 and IIRC still a bit in Disc3.

I totally get what you mean by "storytellers justifying their plot twists based on a passing hint", but it's really not the case here.

The problem is that, unlike other FF games, the way FF8's story works you actually have to pay attention, sometimes care enough to go out of your way to find more info, and sometimes put 2 and 2 together.

>>3907301
>There are people that are shown as to be suspicious. Those people tell you "not to believe the rumours about GFs". Later on during the Norg events, we understand that all these people cared for was making money, using SeeD not for what it was really created but to make money.

Here I have to bring up again my point about the thread being replaceable. Pull it and see if it tears the fabric—without the point about GFs and memory loss, would you be confused as to whether or not NORG and his cronies are the greedy, power-hungry bad guys? Sure, maybe it adds one more shade to the iridescence of his evil, but is your understanding of NORG being Jabba the Hutt contingent upon that point?

>>3907276
So, in other words the entire Norg even is linked to GF memory loss.

Then, like you said there is the Irvine thing.

There is also the whole Ellone-Squall thing.Squall not remembering precisely his childhood trauma, he could not get over it.
Only when he remembered he could outgrow his fear.

That's 3 main plot points directly linked to it.

But then, there is also the fact that Galbadians aren't as strong because we're told they don't use GFs.

>>3907316
> would you be confused as to whether or not NORG and his cronies are the greedy, power-hungry bad guys?

Well, yes.
It's the only point that shows Norg as being 'evil', because he does not care about the health of the students/soldiers, only doing whatever necessary to make them useful and make money out of it.

If it wasn't for the GF use point, and lying to the people about it, Norg&co will be shown like this "We want to use SeeD not to kill some fable Sorceress who many not ever appear, but to help solve conflicts in the world."
It wouldn't sound so bad.

>>3907325
They could have painted it that way, but they didn't. NORG is shown to be at odds with Cid and announces plain as day that he intends to turn you over to Edea in your only encounter with him. This happens before anything about the GFs/memories are substantiated by the main plot.

>>3907320
>There is also the whole Ellone-Squall thing.Squall not remembering precisely his childhood trauma, he could not get over it.
Only when he remembered he could outgrow his fear.
I would like to believe this is true, but I think the truth of it is that Squall's love for Rinoa causes him to change; in fact, the reveal of their lost memory ironically seems to strengthen their resolve to fight Edea and only entices Squall into nagging Ellone to help him save Rinoa with her powers.

>But then, there is also the fact that Galbadians aren't as strong because we're told they don't use GFs.
This only impacts the Sorceress War, in which Galbadia wasn't using GFs not because they feared the risk but simply because it was new technology discovered by Odine of Esthar.

>>3906683
I don't think it's as deep as a relationship builder, I more think they're reading comprehension tests, and in some instances allow for an extra item, or something along those lines.

Pretty sure most of them can be taken at face value.

>>3891083
Squall is literally the only good character in the game, people who hate him and other MCs like Cloud and Tidus are looking at them very superficially and hate anything that isn't a flawless Gary Stu for them to self-insert and fulfil wishes, and beta faggot manchildren who tickle their gravely wounded comrades.

>>3892413
>forced love story between two leads with absolutely no chemistry

Already discussed in these halls. If you never have her in your team, you'll never see the chemistry. But if you chose her to go to Balamb during the missile crisis, you'll see her relationship blossom with Squall thanks to some nice scenes.

>>3894596
Persona series?

>>3894751
>In FF8 that was swept away. No sidequests for every character, no uniqueness, no different viewpoints. All of them have the same background, how convenient.

>not doing the Zell sidequests
>not doing the Quistis sidequest
Also, not having your own sidequest doesn't mean not having your own story.

>>3894818
>FFVIII felt like the first FF where I didn't feel the love behind by its creators.
The decision to have them all as "friends in a school" was always there and is a decision of love after all. Except it's "We love having these school characters together having fun together in a school setting".

>>3895595
>>forced romance with no bearing on the story that just happens out of the blue after 10 words exchanged between Squall and Rinoa; even Irvinie/Selphie is more fleshed out and believable

Thinking back on it, Irvine/Selphie works because they already knew (and fancied) each other at orphanage time.

What makes Squall/Linoa so special is that they meet and fall in love, this one is about "fate".

>>3899918
>Same thing goes for when Raijin claims that Seifer hasn't been acting himself for most the game.

Seifer DID was manipulated when he's "abducted" by Edea.

>3900676
>the villain could have been great if she wasn't such a bait and switch.
Don't you mean "bait and witch"?

>>3891445
>Don't pretend you have any recollection of any event from that period, either.
>before the age of 2-4 years
>less memories from age 10 and under than expected
"dont pretend you have ANY recollection"
cmon laddie

I remember shit from 3 and 4 years old, but not 2 and earlier, and I remember plenty of stuff from 2-10 (though im only 28)

which, guess what, is perfectly in line with the link you posted

>>3892985
>Not liking 9 (and then 12)
best two

>>3894578
>and a worst case scenario would've been a crater on the Midgar continent.
you seem to be forgetting the part where sephiroth would merge with the lifestream and become a god

>>3894909
>and then 12 came out and it was some run around mobile combat shit that completely didn't even feel or play like a Final Fantasy game in any aspect.
funny, because I had always hoped that someday the technology would allow FF games to become that; i played them wishing they could be how ff12 was

I agree 13 was a hallway fight simulator. I rented it when it came out, but I couldn't put in more than two hours. I never got past the initial highway area. My cousin who also played ff games came over when I had it and he had the same reaction.

>>3895881
>and I'm not sure it's a top-5 either.
I'd say 9>12>7>8, with tactics being the 5th but separate

>>3897868
>who we don't even meet properly until the final battle in the game?
[SPOILER]but she's the love interest[/SPOILER]

>>3898407
>Just once I'd like a JRPG villain with at least the same level of depth as Knives from Trigun.
10/10

>>3906635
>The Squall's Dead and Rinoa is Ultimecia theories are for absolute retards
Squall's dead doesn't hold up because there just isn't anything to support it except him waking up healed and not knowing how

Rinoa is Ultimecia makes perfect sense and seems heavily suggested throughout the game. I'd love to hear you explain why it's stupid without resorting to ad hominen.

>>3908183
>If you never have her in your team
would you say there is an optimal party composition for story purposes?

>>3908486
>Rinoa is Ultimecia makes perfect sense and seems heavily suggested throughout the game.

Not the same anon here, but R=U isn't really suggested. There is some symmetry between the two characters, but that's because they're opposites of each other. Ultimecia is the Anti-Rinoa. The main theme of the game is Squall's desire to isolate himself. He was traumatized as a child, abandoned by his father, mother died, ends up in an orphanage where he connects with his "Big Sis", only to have her suddenly disappear with no explanation. Squall grows up sullen and introverted, trying to avoid personal connections so he won't be hurt again. The others try to get him to open up, but ultimately Rinoa is the one who succeeds because she persistently tries again and again not giving up even as he tries to push her away. Eventually thanks to her influence Squall does open up and becomes the leader everyone needs him to be.

Ultimecia is very much a symbolic final boss, her goal is to compress all of time and space until she's the only being to exist. She's the desire to be alone taken to it's ultimate extreme. Squall and his friends defeating her is the final sign that Squall has overcome his past self. And after the battle is over he's able to return to his own time because of his connection with Rinoa.

>would you say there is an optimal party composition for story purposes?
There is, and personally I think it's the biggest flaw in FFVIII. A lot of character development scenes are optional and only happen if you have the right party at certain parts of the game. My theory is they wanted to create a sense of encouraging you, but not forcing you, to follow your SeeD orders. Your orders are to protect Rinoa, so you're "supposed" to keep her in Squall's party whenever you get the choice. When the big split happens you should take Rinoa and Zell to Balamb (Zell also has some missable scenes there), and send Irvine and Quistis with Selphie to the missile base.

>>3908545
I cut that last part a bit short because I was running out of character space. The game gives you freedom in certain places because they want you to feel like you're the party's leader, and you're in control, but at the same time they also wanted a bit of "punishment," i.e. missing stuff, if you made the wrong choices, and reward for making the right choices, so your choices actually matter. This also plays into the SeeD ranking system and your paycheck. In addition to party formation, whenever there's dialogue choices you should make Squall talk as much as possible, never choose the "Whatever..." or "I'll stop talking here" option.

I just cast Protect on a boss so I'd have more time to Mug it. That's how easy FF8 is.

>>3891083
1. It delays the missiles just enough to give them time to move Garden, also Game Over if you don't.

2. Ultimecia can't travel through time physically, but she can use Junction Machine Ellone to send her consciousness back. Capturing Ellone will amplify her powers. I think.

3. Yeah, agree this was done really badly.

4. I forgive the game for trying something new, even if it was easily exploitable

5. Agree with this too, seemed a bit too much of an ass-pull

6. Yes. This isn't even a secret, Squall calls her out on it too.

7. Yes and no. Stronger enemies have better magic and generally drop better stuff. Can be exploited using a particular GF though.

8. She can't die but I don't think she recovers from getting fucked up - see Ultimecia end of game.

9. Limit breaks aren't meant to be super difficult to pull off

10. Honestly don't know. Also don't know why you're retarded. Was clearly meant to be pronounced as 'seed' to go with Garden

11. It's an old shelter converted into Garden by Cid with the financial backing of NORG

12. I didn't mind this plot point but yeah, Galbadia Garden then being revealed to do the same thing was a bit much. Made for the best sequence in the game though.

13. Standard game side-quest stuff

14. Adel. In Timber at the TV Station you can see text from her in the red static.

15. Powers would still pass on to another Sorceress which Esthar wanted to prevent

16. Ultimecia is a sorceress that possesses other sorceresses - they don't rely on Ultimecia for their power although Edea did inherit hers from Ultimecia due to time travel shenanigans

17. Would have landed on Earth and been surrounded and difficult to get to. Ultimecia took control of the new sorceress Rinoa and took her chance to get Adel's more powerful form.

18. Don't know, just a design decision they made for whatever reason

19. That's Quistis' character - a bossy, wannabe leader who is far more emotionally immature than she lets on.

>>3891083
>>3908678
>>3891085

20. Isn't it near the Orphanage? Or near Tears Point? If not then yeah, dunno.

21. MAGIC

22. It probably has some non-evil practical fantasy use

23. Rinoa was the first girl to pay attention to Squall, he's a lovesick emotional wreck of course he'll chase her.

24. You're not a high enough level for that magic

25. True, guess they needed to cover the 'surprise' somehow but this is a valid point

26. Can't recall the scene exactly, if she was heading toward or away from the Presidential Building

27. Yeah, this is dumb and applies to other fantasy games where guns are involved too.

28. Firing it causes the blade to vibrate delivering more damage.

>>3891339
Other than Cid having Seifer's card, where is this implied?
Also, a brown haired man having a blond kid with a black haired woman?

>>3891421
Squall's whole "fuck everyone" personality was because of what he saw was Ellone abandoning him, you'd think something that had such a powerful effect on him would be remembered.

>>3905797
Isn't it said that Laguna didn't even know Raine was pregnant when he left? The Villagers put Ellone and Squall in the orphanage. We know they didn't approve of Laguna, it's assumed Raine's maiden name is Leonhart.

>>3906683
Why does every think choices have to do something. They're simply there to keep the player engaged so they're not reading a book.

>>3898396
I like to think her true name isn't Ultimecia but due to the events of her life she came to realise it was referring to her and embraced the mantle.

>>3908558
>The game gives you freedom in certain places because they want you to feel like you're the party's leader, and you're in control, but at the same time they also wanted a bit of "punishment," i.e. missing stuff, if you made the wrong choices, and reward for making the right choices, so your choices actually matter.

This. If you don't take Rinoa with Squall when they seperate after the prison, or take her and basically don't take the time to do the 'tour guide' for her, you shouldn't be complaining that the love story 'comes out of nowhere'.
Or rather you've got noone to blame but yourself for your awful basic relationship skills. The game even hints at that, as Irvine wants to play boss and get the girl for himself, you're supposed to remind him who's boss and cockblock the fucker. Or do you gets let your friends steal your girlfriend?

>There is, and personally I think it's the biggest flaw in FFVIII. A lot of character development scenes are optional and only happen if you have the right party at certain parts of the game.

Biggest flaw? For me it's one of the biggest pros of the game. For one thing choices matter and have real consequences. And if you didn't see it all and something doesn't make full sense on the first try? Well you can replay the game, and do things a bit differently.
There is also nothing wrong with redoing things considering the game IS a "snake biting its tail" time travel story.

Like I said I was still learning things, finding hidden gameplay rewards or hidden cutscenes/dialogues past my 10th playthrough of FF8. In comparison, it only takes about 3-5 playthroughs to know everything there is to know about FF7/9. 2 playthroughs for FF4.

>>3907334
>>>3907334
>They could have painted it that way, but they didn't. NORG is shown to be at odds with Cid and announces plain as day that he intends to turn you over to Edea in your only encounter with him. This happens before anything about the GFs/memories are substantiated by the main plot.

How does this go against anything I said? One: because he wants to turn Squall over doesn't mean he wants to end the entire SeeD, his organization.
Two: you have to think of the whole thing, instead of stopping to think of Norg just because he's out of the story in the middle of disc2. Cid hints several times that he doesn't like the idea of GFs, and it IS Norg's guards which keep telling you not to worry about GF rumours and such while Cid wants to warn you.

Yes, it was Norg's idea to use GF and to lie about the consequences.

>the reveal of their lost memory ironically seems to strengthen their resolve to fight Edea and only entices Squall into nagging Ellone to help him save Rinoa with her powers.

You wat now? When the reveal is done Edea is no longer the villain for quite some time now.

>This only impacts the Sorceress War, in which Galbadia wasn't using GFs not because they feared the risk but simply because it was new technology discovered by Odine of Esthar.

Well not really, it is said that Galbadians, at the current time of the game, don't use GFs. That's why Irvine didn't, and noone at his school. That's also why the soldiers don't. They'd be a much greater pain in the ass storywise if they did.

>>3908894
>How does this go against anything I said?
It goes against you telling me that NORG is ambiguous if you take the GF abuse out the equation, because I demonstrated he's clearly evil before those dots are ever connected within the main story.

>You wat now? When the reveal is done Edea is no longer the villain for quite some time now.
Correct me if I'm wrong: Trabia is destroyed, you go there, Irvine drops the orphanage bomb, you then fight Edea at Galbadia Garden?

>Well not really, it is said that Galbadians, at the current time of the game, don't use GFs. That's why Irvine didn't, and noone at his school. That's also why the soldiers don't. They'd be a much greater pain in the ass storywise if they did.
Then how does Galbadia even have any success invading during the first couple discs? (I think maybe this is your one salient point but I'm just wondering now how this is justified by the plot)

>>3908893
Flaw may not have been the right word. I love FFVIII for a lot of reasons, including the story telling experiments they did, but at the same time I do feel like putting optional character development scenes in a story-heavy role-playing game may not have been the best idea ever. It's most definitely one reason why there are a lot of people who didn't enjoy the game.

>>3908901
>It goes against you telling me that NORG is ambiguous if you take the GF abuse out the equation, because I demonstrated he's clearly evil before those dots are ever connected within the main story.

Oh, ok. I kinda see "Norg willing to hand Squall over to Edea" as him thinking it's the only way to save his skin though, I wouldn't consider this as "evil" as willingly turning kids into mindless soldiers by using powers which literaly destroy parts of their brains.

>Correct me if I'm wrong

oops, you're right. For some reasons I remembered the orphanage twist happening after that, in disc3.

>Then how does Galbadia even have any success invading during the first couple discs?

Lot's soldiers, then support from Edea who ruled the kingdom.

Spoony's criticisms don't all make sense but you have to admit it was pretty funny when he pointed out that Biggs uses that remote like 2 seconds after they just got done berating the lack of wireless communication.

>>3908918
You're right. The TV remote works the same as my cellular phone or even broadcast antenna

Would the orphanage twist have been better if it was only for the players benefit? Instead of 'omg we all forgot because of GFs!' they just change it to 'we never forgot, but military professionalism meant it didn't come up any time we were actually on screen' or something like that. Maybe hint at it through dialogue beforehand.

>>3909080
In that strawman, no. In this case, where we're talking about a radio transmitter and an RF remote, yes.

>>3909141
Maybe if it was that plus having flashbacks interspersed throughout instead of all at once. Otherwise it's basically as random as the Ragnarok. Or wait, maybe we could fix that by having some pictures of the Ragnarok floating near the space station on the computer terminal at the beginning of the game. Then it's not so random, right guys?

>>3909570
>rf
>radio frequency

It really makes you think.

>>3909570
we don't know what that remote uses for it's frequency.

But we're safe in assuming it's either not interrupted because of the distance between them, or it's not the same signal that's getting interfered from the orbiting sorceress based on the simple facts that it works.

I don't remember the exact details of the scene with Biggs using the remote, and it's been many years since I watched Spoony's review, but I do remember from FFVIII's lore: Short-range burst radio transmissions still worked, but no one was able to create sustained, long-range wireless communication because of the global interference caused by Adel's prison. Also no one outside of Esthar knew what the source of the interference was, they just knew it started the same time her war ended and Esthar went silent. The Galbadians took over Dollet's satellite dish and pumped as much power as they could into it to broadcast Edea's message, and that was basically the maximum that could be done before the signal died.