Let's talk about Final Fantasy 4 for a minute. Why it is

>>3842141

I think it was the first truly modern JRPG for that era. It was my first RPG as well. As far as vr ffs go i'd easily put it in the top 4.

>>3842141
People say I'm being contrarian but I think it's maybe the worst game in the series. 1-3 all had a lot of customization in how you approach it, 4 throws that almost totally out the window in favor of a more plot focused game, but the plot still isn't great.

>>3842141
It's more or less the first one where the biggest draw is the plot, never mind how generic it is.

It hits on all the high notes.

It's the FF9 of the OG Final Fantasy titles.

>>3842193
What are the high notes?

>>3842194
Just the inclusion of features. This game really seems like it has it all, especially for it's time. The cast is great, the progression is great. If you wanted a Final Fantasy game in it's purest form, the only choices are FF4, and FF9.

>>3842204
>Just the inclusion of features
That's my biggest issue is the lack of features. Almost no character or party customization, little in the way of choices in general. It's the most rote game in the series to me because of that.

To me, 1, 2, 3 and 5 are FF at it's most pure, but we may have different ideas of what pure FF is.

>>3842145
>I think it was the first truly modern JRPG for that era.
If by "modern" you mean one that moves towards a more cinematic approach that would come to practically define the genre, then yeah, this is where it's at for me too. The combination of music and scene framing and story is more coherent in FFIV than in practically any RPG I can think of that came before it. It's one of the most nuanced and complex early examples of the use of leitmotif in video games as a way of supporting story.

>>3842205
I felt the equipment allotment, and designated party roles made up for the lack of customization features.

>>3842208
That's fair, I didn't think it was anywhere near enough to make the game interesting but everyone is different. I mostly play games for gameplay as opposed to story so it's not a game that was designed to appeal to me in the first place.

Most FF fans think 2 is trash when it's one of my favorites, I'm just happy there are entries in the series that appeal to different types.

>>3842210
Yeah, I liked FF2 for what it did. Have a fully custom party from the start really adds a sense of accomplishment.

But, when they take it too far, like in FF7 and FF8, where it's a free for all, I'm less of a fan, despite them being my favorite Final Fantasy games overall.

>>3842223
I somewhat agree with VII and VIII. I like the systems in VIII, but not the characters and story as much and it's ultimately too easy to break. VII just ends up a little bland with everyone amazing at everything.

VI hits a sweet spot for blending a bit of individual character with lots of room for customization. IX is pretty good on that as well. But 2, 3 and 5 are the ones I dig the most.

>>3842141
>The plot is generic and straightforward
>straightforward

Bingo. FF3, 5 and 6 suffered from terrible writing. The characters look and act like something out of a shitty fanfic. 4 had more realistic themes that were anchored by consistent story arcs that weren't constantly disrupted by lolrandom antics.

>>3842146
/thread

>>3842304
You spoony bard!!!

>>3842141
Huge leap in gameplay possibilities over the NES games that was actually exploited(compare FF1-3 boss fights and AI to their FF4 equivalents), great soundtrack, and the game flows absolutely fucking perfectly because the designers took your party for each segment of the game to heart without fail.

>>3842486
>Huge leap in gameplay possibilities

Possibilities yes, realities, no. They cut most of the interesting gameplay choices from the NES games to give you premade everything. Boss ai is the only thing that makes the game interesting at all.

>>3842141
it was the first game where they focused on having the story and characters front and center instead of having most of the story in other games essentially be.
>yo there's this thing happening in this place
>guess we better go there and check it out

>>3842570
That's all IV's plot feels like anyways.

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>>3842596
maybe, but there's more drama in between to fill out the reasons for doing so.
it's the difference between II and IV, and i actually wish they would do a proper remake of II one day.

>>3842141
I find it to be really boring and I never got far in it.

I thought the characters weren't very fun, playing it after 6 was a mistake because FF6 characters are colorful like a deck of cards.

>>3842141
FFIV was one of my favorites when I was a kid, probably second only to FFIX, but I've really started to dislike it lately. I don't think it's a bad game persay, but it clearly banks on the story and the novelty of the ATB system to carry it, both of which are really basic by the standards of every single game in the series after it. I just don't think it has enough to it to warrant revisiting it anymore.

>>3842605
I find II's story more interesting than IV actually.

>>3842620
i like it, but it's more an outline than a story.
i get that it's because they couldn't do anything too big because of space issues though.
had to put the gameplay somewhere.

>>3842620
it's basically star wars
except darth vader is your girlfriends brother and he lives in the end.

>>3842141
>Why it is considered one of the best retro FF

You have to keep in mind when people are talking about classic FF their talking about either IV or VI

It's the only Snes FF that didn't have large amounts of character customization that let you break the game instead opting to give characters unique roles and abilities.You couldn't teach every character Cure,Life and Ultima like in VI or use various Job combinations to gimp the game like in V.

The story is subjectively paced better than VI.The player is given an outline of the initial plot in baron.The villain is the king of Baron, the main characters boss/father figure, baron is the most advanced country in an otherwise medieval fantasy setting.The king wants the crystals to make baron more powerful.The player is slowly introduced to Golbez who's the real villain(for the most part)along with the underworld and moon.The player and villains have a clear cut goals.

>>3842620
It's a good premise, but the story in the actual game is pretty lackluster.
>in order to defeat the empire we need mythril/sunfire/dragons/ultima
>even though they never get brought up in the story again once you get them
>hope you like fetch quest chains
The only real interesting bits come in the decoy-Hilda subplot. That was actually pretty subversive back then.

>>3842623
II's is at least an interesting outline where as IV is just dull and cliched. To me anyways. If I liked the gameplay I wouldn't mind the story as much, but since it feels like the focus I just find it all the more disappointing. To each their own though, I'm glad IV has it's fans even if I never liked it.

>>3842649
I didn't say it was amazing, I just said I liked it better than IV. All the FF's have had pretty boring stories in my opinion which is why I prefer the more mechanically interesting ones. My issue with IV is that it focuses so much on story at the expense of interesting gameplay and still doesn't really excel at it.

>>3842141
The plot actually bothers me.

The party is consistently fucking things up, and every last death is a fake out.

>>3842657
Fair enough. I do give FFII a lot of slack in that it creates a really strong, dark atmosphere in a way that the series wouldn't do again for several more games.

>>3842145
I don't think "modern" as much as I think FF4 was the game where FF really became FF.

>>3842626
In contrast FFVI feels somewhat rushed in the world of balance.The player is chased out of the starting town narshe after the opening level only to be chased out the next civilized area ,Figaro castle, after being given some brief plot points.This continues for several hours.A major factor in creating a sense of adventure is giving the reader,player,viewer ect a sense of familiarity and removing them from it.

Tying in to this is the introduction of characters.Gaining a new party member with unique abilities and stats should be a big deal.In FFIV most of the party members you gain were previously in your party(Kain,Yang,Rydia) or already introduced in the plot(Rosa,Cid)or were mentioned before hand(Tallah,Edward)and the player has to run through a dungeon with them letting them get use to the new character.

In FFVI characters are thrown at you persistently in the first half.A handful of them have overlapping traits(Setzer is a womanizer like edgar and has a dead GF backstory like locke,Ceres is a magic superhuman and raised by the empire like terra). Adding to this is the fact that character generally don't have unique dialogue for situations the party gets in.

Furthermore characters have poorly defined abilities that don't have a persistent theme.

Cyans Swordplay,Sabin Blitz,Stragos lore,Setzers gambling,Edgard's tools and the moogles dances are all random list of skills that can either Heal allies,cast dubuffs or do special damage.At least with IV characters always had a defined role.If Rosa was silenced or Rydia was knocked out you knew the consequences and if you should act on them.

>>3842674
>If Rosa was silenced or Rydia was knocked out you knew the consequences and if you should act on them.

You just summed up why it's boring.

>>3842673
I think FFII is the first "real" FF. It's the game where the writers started trying to tie things together thematically and focus on story arcs and character, rather than generic "stop the bad guy" early D&D style stories. You can argue that FFII didn't do it very well, and you'd probably be right, but I think it's clearly the foundation that the later games build on. Even FFIV pays a lot of lip service to FFII in tone and setting.

>>3842674
Honestly, the worst thing about FFVI's combat is that magic eventually becomes the best thing for all your characters to do unless you go out of your way to make it otherwise.

Having overlap in skillset just means that the game isn't forcing you to bring along characters you might not like in order to have access to a specific kind of ability. It gives every character something to do in combat other than The One Thing that they're good at, which I think is good design.

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I've always thought this game was boring. I prefer 5 and 6.

FF 5 had great gameplay, FF6 had a cool plot.

As I get older I've grown to appreciate the themes in FF7, though.

>>3842674
Then there's the villains.In IV the king of baron rules the most advance city in the setting and your either on the run or fending off his forces until you become a paladin.I recall the four fiends and other bosses in IV being a lot harder than the other bosses and that gave golbez a sense of danger.A villain is generally stronger than his henchmen so therefore if the player had trouble with Baigan or the Magus Sisters then Golbez would presumably be a threat.

People claim the story was Cliche(and it was to an extent)but there was actual tension at some points as to whether or not the player would have to kill Kain or whether or not fusoya or Golbez would die in the end battle)

So tl;dr IV had streamlined gameplay but to me seem to benefit from it.The plot was more straight forward and cliche but the narrative was more well paced than VI.

>>3842304
>more realistic themes that were anchored by consistent story arcs

Yeah, because randomly flying to the moon in a robot whale to fight some evil moon guy is a very realistic and consistent outcome pertaining to the game's previous story.

Really, it comes down to nostalgia and accessibility. It's one of the "famous" JRPGs on the snes so it has that acclaim always going for it.

And by accessibility, the game literally holds your hand, is very linear, and is a great comfort game. It's very easy to pick up and play.

And it has the oldschool Final Fantasy charm, where the story might not always make sense and the characters might not always be consistent but it all has so much heart and detail that you can't help but fall in love with it.

FF1 was the unintended prototype.
FF2 was the testing bed where they tried out an actual plot and a different leveling system.
FF3 was where they ironed out most of the kinks and did more testing with the Job System.
FF 4 was the first true return to the original formula with a detailed plot.

I played FF4 as a kid and it blew me away at the time. I thought the world was huge and there were some really compelling plot twists. Then the game opened up the underground and I was taken aback by having a whole other map to explore in an RPG game.

And then you go to the fucking moon.

I was a little kid in 1992 so I didn't really have a ton of context, but it really felt like one of the largest and most elaborate games of the day. Everything seemed like it was an order of magnitude grander than anything I had ever seen on the NES. Yeah, its a bit cliche and old feeling today, but despite all that it's still fun and filled with memorable scenes.

>>3843579
>flying to the moon in a robot whale to fight some evil moon guy
there's nothing wrong with this.

>>3842141
Same reason Mega Man 2 is "the best."
It's the first one most played and it's probably where they stopped, too

>>3843626
Glad someone else appreciates the unabashed grandioseness of the Big Whale.

>>3843679
indeed. sometimes its best to unironically go all out.

>>3842141
>The plot is generic and straightforward, the gameplay is a little annoying with the script changes of party members out of your control.

I'm ok with all of that. FF games, especially VII and VIII can get up their own asses trying to push the dark or edgelord themes.

>>3843626
Exactly. FF games have a tendency to go crazy in the 3rd act. But, the moon was fun for me. It was whimsical while being stupid.

And on some level I've always identified with Cecil. The dude keeps trying to do the right thing and gets misled or outsmarted by everyone.

Also, isn't it nice to have a FF protagonist who already has his love life in order before the game begins?

>>3843783
word @ all of those points.

>>3842304
I'm not sure why, but 2 had a better plot (casting wasn't bad) but it always get ignore. I think people cannot see further than the skill gaining mechanic.

>>3842605
>i actually wish they would do a proper remake of II one day.
It will never happen for one simple reason, FFII is the SaGa prototype.

This makes it the hardest game to actually remake, because you have to talk with two radically different kinds of people.

If you pander to the FF fanbase you have to change it so it can play more like a FF, which means making it a different game altogether, most FF players hate II because it's basically FF on full manual settings, no hand holding with a somewhat complex system that requires more care than any other entry to be played well without turning into a frustrating chore, most FF players aren't comfortable with that degree of freedom, see /vr/ where people still insist that you need to grind and that hitting yourself is actually the best strategy to grind stats.

If you pander to the SaGa fanbase you still have to make it different, you have to make it play more like an actual SaGa game, and people who play SaGa have little interest in going back to what is basically a draft for a stat system sticked onto the FF label when any SaGa game offers them an incredibly deeper and much more polished experience, moreover, they'd be angry at Squenix because instead of making a remake of a SaGa game they're giving them a FF cosplaying as SaGa, and believe me, SaGa fans are already pretty fucking angry at Square for putting the series in the backburner for almost a decade.

tl;dr: FFII ain't getting a remake, even less a good one, deal with it.

>>3842141
why they made the party's Bard absolutely useless in the game is beyond me. Also they seem to like killing off characters for the sake of shock value though Cid did come back

>>3843783
>especially VII and VIII can get up their own asses trying to push the dark or edgelord themes
Play those games again sometime. They have, by far, the silliest moments in the whole series.

>>3843783
the dark edgelord themes in VII are a lot more prevalent in the Advent Children movie though. Even Cloud more cocky than edgy in the original

On the subject of II, I do think it's better than 4, and like it quite a bit. Everyone told me you have to hit yourself and grind a lot, but after the first 1/2 half of the game I stopped doing that and enjoyed the rest of the game a lot more. It wasn't too hard, it was quite fun, gave the right amount of intensity and thrill of beating bosses without normal enemies being a nuisance of constant struggling. I thought the story was interestingly dark for a famicom game, too, even if it was kinda Star Wars.

Honestly my least favorite FF games are III and IV. III's plot was basically nothing, and the job system was much worse than V's, which was damn good, and IV's plot is cliche and boring as fuck, and the dungeons were repetitive and boring. Fighting wasn't very fun, but to be fair it was my first ATB FF besides 13, and I liked that game's lore and characters, despite being too linear and going from mind numbingly easy to really damn fun for a couple chapters, then really fucking hard for the rest of the game.

>>3843783
>especially VII and VIII can get up their own asses trying to push the dark or edgelord themes.

What are VIII's edgelord themes?

>>3844596
>though Cid did come back
And Yang, and Kain, and Edward, and Rydia, and the twins

>>3844607
I suppose that is true. I don't recall many opportunities to cross dress in the other games.

>>3844443
And it's kind of dumb how everybody complains that it's so easy to break, because every FF game has some mechanic that you can exploit. FFVI has Vanish+Doom.

>>3844674
wasn't the magic learning system broken as fuck in VI as well? by the end of the game you can have everybody spamming Ultima to win against Kefka

>>3844679
Yeah, and if you know where to look you can farm a relic which drops all magic costs to 1MP

>>3844679
Yeah you can have a character cast Ultima 3 times every round for a total of 4 MP.

Of course in VII I made Cloud so powerful he counter attacked for as much damage as knights of the round and spent the final fight having everyone toss megalixers at Sephiroth to keep him alive long enough for me to see Supernova.

>>3844650
Pretty much everyone that wasn't Tellah returns to your party after a supposed "death" scene.

That's what annoyed me the most about FFIV. Sure, it's not exclusive to this entry, or even this RPG, but they just went overboard here.

>>3844650
>>3844747
Yang actually does it twice, don't forget.

>>3842141
it's more or less the first good FF so people who want to say "oh yeah I'm so retro" and name the earliest good game they could

then voila, ff4

it's the same reason why everyone says FF7 is overrated and FF6 is better even though that FF6 being better than FF7 is the more common opinion, but they just want to have an agreeable opinion

>>3842141
One of the best games ever right here.
Great characters, gameplay, music

>>3844679
>spamming ultima to win
Hell, I think I only used it for the visual effect. The whole Genji Glove & Offering combo kinda covered everything that didn't die to a standard Attack.

>>3842206
Phantasy Star 2

>>3842304
I don't think you've played final fantasy 3.

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OK, here's why FF4 is looked upon so fondly by people (like me) who have their nostalgiagoggles strapped on tightly and cranked up to full power. These opinions are rooted in the foundation of being an American oldfag who was at an ideal age for vidya obsession when FF4 came out.

1. It was the first game I played that had a real story. By today's standards, it was simplistic and borderline childish, but back in '91/'92 it was pretty damn complex compared to other vidya.

2. Real characters who joined and left and rejoined your party due to believable circumstances (at least, they were believable within the context of a high-fantasy setting), which added to the gripping power of the story. Rydia coming back out of fucking nowhere and blasting Golbez's face off is still one of my favorite vidya memories, 25 years later.

3. It didn't require grinding. If you died, it was because you were handling fights incorrectly, not because you were underpowered.

4. Really good soundtrack compared to the other SNES games out there at the time. FF6's soundtrack is way better, granted, but FF4's was the best we had in 1991.

5. The active-time battle system was groundbreaking. It made traditional JRPG menu-based combat way more interesting and tense.

6. It introduced character archetypes that American FF players had never seen before (summoners, dragoons, bards, whatever Cid was, etc)

7. The final boss was in the center of the moon and you used a flying robot whale to get to him. Fuck yeah.

>>3846430
>3. It didn't require grinding

complete horse shit, that game was tough as nails even with grinding.

at least when I was young as fuck, but still had a good understanding of Final Fantasy mechanics.

>>3846468
You definitely don't need to grind in IV, even in the hard mode versions.

>>3846470
I sure as shit did.

I can't remember how many times I got my ass kicked. In that tower leading up to the last boss, oh my god.

I got my ass kicked up and down in different places.

All the mimic treasure chests and shit, holy lord.

>>3846468
Did you run from fights a lot or something? I've never needed to grind in FF2US (SNES) and I've played through it at least ten times.

>>3846476
Nah, I just progressed like normal, fought all random encounters, and had to grind for more.

I was playing it 2 player mode with my sister, so maybe not having full control of the party limited the action. But, I thought we had a good thing going honestly.

It's been well over 10 years since we played it together.

>>3846470
>You definitely don't need to grind in IV

The Sealed Cave and the moon both require extensive grinding and prep work. Have you even played this game?

>>3846518
>The Sealed Cave and the moon both require extensive grinding and prep work

Things That Aren't True: The Post

In your spare time, consider getting good at video games.

>>3846584

'tard / 10

>>3846593
Not him but I played FFIV and never needed to stop to grind either. Some fights were close but that's not bad.

>>3846616
>Not him but I played FFIV and never needed to stop to grind either.

Unless you were playing FF2US or Easy-Type, I just don't see this. The final stretch of the moon forces you into literal boss fights in place of random encounters. And assuming you exploit Edge's escape ability to bypass those, how exactly do you intend to survive Zeromus spamming Big Bang at your party when you have 3000 HP tops? You'll have to grind everybody to level 60 at the bare minimum.

>>3846887
I'll say that Zeromus is a hard fucker. But otherwise you suck. If you don't run through fights throughout the game and play wisely then random encounters will give you no trouble.

>>3846468
The only Grinding you would ever need would be is when you go to the moon, and you can do that in about 15 minutes.

Or do it about 20 minutes as soon as you get Paladin Cecil and steamroll the rest of the game.

>>3847345

I'm inclined to believe you're trolling at this point.

I've finished this game over a dozen times across different versions. You can't control the fact that characters have linear stat growth all the way up to level 70; so yes, being underleveled is a very real occurrence in this game. No, I don't generally flee from random encounters.

My party averages around the mid-forties when I reach the moon. Despite going through all the side-quests, I'm still underleveled for some of the Lunar Subterrane chests, and of course Zeromus himself. It's essential that Rydia at least learns Flare, which isn't acquired until she hits level 55.

Let's not get started on the Sealed Cave with its many insta-death door mimics and that fucking demon wall boss. If you choose not to grind for this section, you're going to be making a lot of trips back to the dwarven castle for regrouping.

>>3844546
I think they won't do it because it is Kawazu's game, and they may not want him near it. He is a man that just doesn't seem to give a fuck about accessibility and will do his own thing.

>>3847345
Recently played through with ample amount of walking around and opening every chest and get overleveled characters as a result and I got to Zeromus with level 50 characters, beating him at that level is impossible without getting extremely lucky with Asura heals

>>3847434
They let him near FFXII of all things

>>3846887
>exactly do you intend to survive Zeromus spamming Big Bang at your party when you have 3000 HP tops?
Stop reviving everyone because your healing's getting split between the three characters that can actually survive Big Bang and 2 that can get oneshot by it.

>>3847365
No, I just think you're bad at the game. PDs are cheap as fuck in IV which lets you power straight through the instakill doors if you bothered to use your money intelligently and Demon Wall is extremely easy when you realize that you can berserk your frontline to add damage.

>>3847593
I assume PD means Phoenix Down.

>>3847594
Yes.

>>3842141

I think it has a lot of the same problems Orcarina of Time has today, where it seems generic only because every game in the series (and a lot of games outside it) owe something to what it did.

>>3847356
>Or do it about 20 minutes as soon as you get Paladin Cecil and steamroll the rest of the game.
Pointless, taking the quickest possible route off that mountain after class change he'll still gain about 13 levels and steamrolling is the default in this game.

>>3847365
She doesn't need flare (Though it helps). Rydia unfortunately stares at the lights during Zeromus. Not because she has trouble living Big Bang (Thats solved in 5 minutes), but because he counters everything she does. Its stupid.

Zeromus is literally "Have Rosa spam Heals and Attack with 2 of Cecil/Kain/Edge". Usually Cecil and Kain since Edge eats Big Bang the worst. If he can live it, then Kain/Edge for damage. Speedruns are pretty much Kain and Edge because of leveling tricks.

>>3842141
Not really. It was okay, but FFV was definitely the best "traditional" Final Fantasy game, followed by FF3j. FF6 started the new generation of FFs.

>>3846887
I played the DS version and don't recall having any problems like that.
And it's supposed to be the hardest one, I think.

>>3847669
>steamrolling is the default in this game.

NAH BRO YOU HAVE TO GRIND FOR 9999999 HOURS IN ORDER TO BEAT ASURA/LEVIATHAN/BAHAMUT/ZEROMUS

THIS GAME IS SO HARD ACCORDING TO ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WHO HAVE NEVER PLAYED VIDEO GAMES BEFORE

No one here mention that FFIV's story is actually quite "fresh" in its day? It is the same as if FFVII - it is great when you get it, but ten years latter and it just doesn't seem to retain that "oomph" anymore. A lot of the old games are like that nowaday.

Just thinking of all the mind-fucking "traps" and "twists" that writers today makes so as to make their plotline "fresh" give me nausea.

>>3846468
You really don't. Maybe for the fight with Scrimgiolione or whatever his name is, but after that you should be able to survive most fights provided you use buffs and debuffs. I didn't the first time I played the game and grinded through most of it, but on subsequent playthroughs Berserk, Regen, Haste, Poison, etc. was enough to get me through the entirety of the game.

Better yet in the 3D remakes when you can stick Bardsong onto someone more "permanent"

>all the people saying you don't need to grind are talking about the remake versions.

>>3848370
No, I'm talking about the original, and not even the SNES version that was dumbed down for Americans. You're just shit at the game.

>>3842141
it was the first to have a set of characters that had personalities (and unlike most FFs after V, they didn't give them all sob stories to make them seem deep)
a more involving plot compared to its predecessors, but not to the point where it feels obtrusive - one of the best paced games in the series
no customization (at least the snes version), but that also means it's one of the least grindy games in the franchise and ones that can't be hilariously broken, and I guess it makes the characters feel more special
first game to use ATB which has become one of the series' trademarks, and even went on to be used in other games (grandia, baten kaitos, eien no filena etc.)
one of my favourite OSTs

I finished the gamefor the first time last year and was surprised by how well it held up
It's just a well made game with no glaring faults

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>It's a why is this game shit when judging it by modern game standards instead of the standards of the era on which it came out episode

>>3847434
Kawazu is making all of his games more and more accessible though, but unlike most modern devs he has the good taste of not sticking a tutorial section up your ass for the first hour of gameplay or whenever you find out a new mechanic.

I don't think he has any interest in doing FF games any longer, even with FFXII he stepped in because Matsuno fucked off when the game was half done and it was a literal red alert, Squenix knows he is staying just to cater to his niche audience and make the games he wants to make, the way he wants to make them, that's why they throw him a bone once in a while, luckily.
He sure doesn't give a single fuck about a lot of things that people consider essential today though, like voice acting.

>>3842141
>Why it is considered one of the best retro FF ?

They say the same about VI. And VII.
It's the Zelda syndrome, every game is the best and no one can't fucking decide.

>>3842665
Kain is the only real fuckup of the party. Cecil gets his shit in order basically right after Mist gets razed, save his momentary BITCHES LEAVE brainfart before going to the Moon. Everyone else is competent in their roles and shows growth. Kain is fucking ridiculous though. Even when he's finally like "lol if I turn again just kill me" it feels like bullshit. The DS version even has him starting to succumb one more time after that point, at least in his mind.

>>3843783
Cecil cemented himself for me as one of the top FF protags on my last playthrough. Something about the reasons behind the gameplay finally clicked for me and seeing him washed up on Mysida's shore and begging for both help and forgiveness just did it. Also helps that he has the single most kickass theme in the series.

>>3846468
Bullshit. The only semi-required grind is to get Rosa Float, and even then you can still slog through the Land of Summons/Feymarch and heal up without it. Zeromus only gets a little tricky considering he can one-shot Rydia and Edge if they're low enough, and even then I still beat the game in the mid-late 40s. Shit, I ran from nearly every nonessential fight.

>>3847754
Agreed

>Got FuSoYa & left the Moon
>Railroaded into Giant of Babel dungeon
>Railroaded into CPU fight
>Less than twenty Ethers
>Spend them all during the CPU fight before I can beat it
>No save files from before I picked up FuSoYa

Well, I guess that's twenty hours down the drain.

>>3846430

I also had this experience. We jumped from FF1 to FF4 and didn't even know it (well, I assume most of us didn't). It was mindblowing. For kids at least.

>>3849560

I haven't played this game in twenty years or whatever, but surely you can grind your way out of that somehow?

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>>3849560

>>3849296
Yeah, when his crisis of conscience redemption quest results in mass murder. Dude just can't catch a break.

I was still missing those Cecil/Kain bro show moments right up until I got him back.

>>3849291
Eh, Cecil has his moments of dumb even aside BITCHES LEAVE. Honestly they all had stupid moments of dumb. Like Rosa managing to get sick by traveling and Edge fighting fire with fire.

....Come to think of it, Rydia was the only one of the main 5 not to really do anything notably stupid or dumbassed. She was always stating common sense or/and was being a hardass.

Of course After years ruined that, can't have nice things. Granted everyone but Edward is a dumbass there, Rydia just managed to get it worse than anyone else aside the spawn of Cecil/Rosa.

>>3849783
Never played the After Years. Recommend?

>>3849810
No.

I think the real problem with ff4 is the monsters statistics. They are always harder than the dungeon boss, because their speed. There are monsters that will ever outspeed you, Even if your party is at a higher level. They will always attack first.

>>3849810
Its not recommended. Which sucks because it does do somethings right, even the battle system is pretty good (if awfully balanced) but open's up at the very end of the game. It just does far too much wrong and makes it obvious there was no effort and little thought put into it.

Id give some spoilers on how dumb and a giant middle finger to FF in general it is, but won't spoil since its for the best.

>>3849810
Fuck no.

>>3848370
The only version I have ever played is the Japanese SNES version. No grind.

>>3851838

In the Japanese snes version, with no run from random encounters, you will arrive at the final dungeon around level 40, which is absolutely too low for beat the final boss.

>>3851904
git gud

>>3851904
If that is true then you might be able to argue that a little bit of grinding would be needed for the final stretch of the game. It does nothing to support the outright lie going through this thread that the entire game is a grindfest.

>lol FF4 no grind

Well, at least the trolls are getting more original. This easily could been just another Retron thread.

Anyone please feel free to upload video footage of your underleveled FF4 parties defeating Zeromus. Protip: Strategies involving glitches, RNG abuse or incredibly obtuse or rare item setups that - in themselves - would require hours of prep work do not count.

>>3854031
What's it like to be so bad at video games?

And not just video games... but arguably the easiest genre of video games.

>>3854031
Leave Rydia and Edge dead. Jump with Kain, heal with Rosa, attack with Cecil and heal with him every now and then to smooth over the damage taken and have him throw Elixirs at Rosa when her MP starts running low.

That's it.

>>3842193
>It's the FF9 of the OG Final Fantasy titles.
So your saying its shit?

>>3854831
>FF9 is bad

Will there ever be a danker meme than this?

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Let's take some time to discuss best 16-bit JRPG grill.

>>3849560
Why the fuck you don't have tents?

And I don't really don't know what the fuck you're doing wrong. I never used a ether in this game, and never grinded either. I fight every enemy in my way though.

>>3842141
Honestly, the plot must have been fucking awesome at the time. What starts off as a typical fantasy plot ends up with the main villain being your brother and both of you are the children of an alien who worked to better mankind. Your brother is revealed to have been influenced by an evil member of an alien race that has been orchestrating the fall of humanity in order to take over the planet the whole time. So the final battle involves you going up to the moon to get rid of the real threat.

The plot still holds up till today, IMO. It's just that the script doesn't do it justice.

Rosa's love for Cecil is a bit shallow. The love-triangle and relationship between Cecil and Kain is never explored. Rydia grows up to aid the man who killed her mother and her feelings on that are never explored. All the ingredients are there for an amazing and engaging plot but it's never realized.

>>3855870

honestly, one of the bigger missed opportunities in TAY was a chance to explain stuff like this.

instead we got "HUH?!" about 50+ times.

>>3856252
Dont forget swapped roles, complete pointlessness of a lot of things, repeating events that happened already and the heroes go full retard for some reason, and massive out of character moments, along with every character jobbing out to Evil Rydia(did they ever explain why she looked like Rydia at all?) at basically every opportunity.

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>>3847594
>>3847596
>Phoenix downs
>Phoenix
>Ph
Not using Fenix Downs

>>3842141
great game

>>3855870
>>3856252
All that stuff should've honestly been in the DS remake if anything.

Instead they added THEODORE and a pokemon no one asked for or used that doesn't even fit in the story. The thought bubbles were nice though even though it really only opened up a few characters more to varying degrees.

>>3842141
Plot is pretty cool but it's not very fun to play, especially in the late game. The pacing in battles and dungeons is very tedious. The characters and areas and old-school feel are pretty great but 5 and 6 have better replay value and are more enjoyable, fast-paced games overall. I personally think 6 beats it out as far as story goes as well.

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>>3854924
my waifu

I always thought Rosa looked like a man for some reason.

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>>3859042
it was the nose. That schnoz is too long and pointy.
Shame cause she isn't half bad looking either. Shame her character is literally just "want to fuck Cecil".

>>3848370
The Nintendo DS version is the only version that is difficult in my opinion

>>3860561
You have a correct opinion.

>>3860561
Facts. Not an opinion.

>>3860561
Keep in mind that a lot of JRPG players are total fucking retards who have trouble with games like FFVI and VII, where the game constantly gives the player obvious tools that break the game's balance. It's not that surprising that one of them would find FFIV impossibly hard without grinding.

>>3856704
I like what they did with Theodore but even then, it still feels like they were holding back for no reason at all. What's more is that the promos played up Cecil x Kain x Rosa and it gets the same amount of attention that it did in the original.

It's just sad. The 3D remake feels like IV's grand finale and they didn't even go all out with it like they're no doubt going to do with FFVII.

>>3854093
Not as bad as you at Life, at least.

>>3854916
Yep: FFXIII is actually not bad

>>3865084
>adult only
Post the remainder.

>>3863797
Agreed. I thought jrpgs were all about grinding when I was ten and didn't know better. As an adult I realized that it's about experimenting with different strategies as you move through the game. Sometimes you don't even need to experiment, the games tell you as long as you're paying attention.

I enjoyed VI more than IV, it just felt like a more grand and comfy adventure.

I also enjoyed Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana/2 even more than FFVI

What's the best version of IV? Why won't they properly remake V and VI?

>>3866516
PSP if you want regular FF4, otherwise DS.

PSP version is pretty lazily made desu. Its just better than the phoneshit 5 and 6 got.

>>3855870

Rydia's issues were worked out the moment a fucked-up, tired Cecil solo'd an entire squad of Baron's soldiers just to keep her safe. They even spelled it out for her that he was throwing away his entire career in doing so. He's the big brother she never had, even if they end up nearly the same age by the middle of the game.

>>3866514
Fuckin a this.
When I grew up I felt like I was a failure if I wasn't killing and encounter in one or two rounds, depending on the game.

Bof4 and dq are what finally trained me on it, and I was the right age to make the breakthrough. Bof4 was very good about exploiting weaknesses and tagging up a combo to knock them down in one turn.

>>3866345
I don't have it

>>3842141
>Why it is considered one of the best retro FF

If by "retro FF" you mean FF1-6, I think they're all pretty much considered good with the possible exception of FF2 (which isn't as bad as people claim).

>>3866519
Not him but I always wondered why someone asks about what versions to play?
Isn't all the same?
Though most of the time the answer is SNES or DS.

What I hate about IV is that there's no decent translation of it. The original was so trash that they hired ol' Ted to translate all their games from then on. The PS1 version is better, but still based off the original. The GBA version onward takes too much liberty. Am I best off playing the PS1 version if I want the original version of the game? I know the J2E translation is absolute trash.

>>3868952
DS changes the gameplay considerably. Boss strategies are reworked, balance changes, and augments (basically Materia). Also its that weird Bravely Default 3D that's either love or hate.

It kind of is the hardest FF overall, but lots of stuff break it apart (Whyt if you put about 10 min of effort, Draw Attacks, Phoenix being an augment instead of a summon, Bless actually working and restoring MP, etc).

>>3842693
>Even FFIV pays a lot of lip service to FFII in tone and setting.
I remember reading an interview where I think one of the directors was a huge fan of the first 3 games so they tried to combine every element from those into IV. Didn't really work out that well.

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>>3868952
Depend on the game.
Newer version for newer consoles tend to have revisions, new missions and different extra to it.
As well as improved graphics, and better gameplay experience by using some newer consoles feature.
>pic related

But sometimes newer versions screw everything, like HM series, or DQ series.

>>3871076

>DQ revisions are bad

The DS revisions are pretty good imo.

>>3871076
>or DQ series.

What's wrong with the new versions of DQ7 and DQ8?

>>3872089
>>3872363
the unreadable ebonics accents!

>>3872089
DS versions are good.
>>3872363
They ditched the sprite to 3D characters, but kept the 2D environment.
Creating uncanny valley.

>>3872935
I see your point.
DQ on PS2 was intolerable, DS was good, SNES was decent.
>>3871076
Haven't played chrono trigger yet, is the DS version better than the rest?
>HM series
Harvest moon?
I only played the GBA versions, Know idea about the rest,I thought it was different games all together.

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>>3872089
The fourth and fifth games suffer from shockingly bad translations.

>>3873469
Not him, I actually can't stand playing most of the DQ games. But I do like them having fun with the translations.